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Cold Hardy Bananas This forum is dedicated to the discussion of bananas that are able to grow and thrive in cold areas. You'll find lots of tips and discussions about keeping your bananas over the winter.


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Old 01-28-2009, 04:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

It was my understanding from the sorts of advertisement and articles that
the cold hardiness of those bananas is -10C for Hajaray, -3C for Pahai kela
and Virupakshi.

However I have recently been informed by a member of this forum that a
banana grower in Southern California has failed the overwintering of Hajaray
and Pahari Kela and that his banana friend in Northern India had trouble with
Virupakshi in the temperature of +4.5C as it is considered to grow not colder
than +7C.

Now I have been astonished that Hajaray and Pahari Kela had already introduced
into US and tested for their hardiness. I have never known this fact.

If this is the case, the interest in these varieties more or less fades away
as there are some other candidates like Cal. Gold, Thousand Fingers. Orinoco,
Monkey Fingers and Brazilian which can easily be purchased and more hardy
than the Indian varieties.

What do you think?!
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Well, I would be shocked if Musa 'Hajaray' had failed in Southern California! That would mean that he/she would have tried it LAST winter, and that it didn't come back last spring. Seems sort of unlikely, considering the newness of this hybrid. If it didn't make it, then I would have to believe that M. sikkimensis wasn't one of the parents. Who is the grower, and can your forum member friend post on here the exact details please? Call me skeptical...
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

I agree with 'Skeptical' (sorry Frank, had to). Interesting that it got in under the radar here. Where in southern California is the person growing it? I would like to hear more detail as well.
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Hi Frank Bigdog and Scot Chironex,

Thanks for your comments. I also cannot undestand it all.
It is mentioned that the Hajaray and Pahari Kela have REPEATEDLY failed in
southern California, and then the fact is either they failed at least two winters,
or they faild the same winter in the plural places in southern California.
In any case, these varieties had already been introduced into the US at
least a year ago, and it is somehow weird as I understand these varieties
have been widely known quite recently.

Therefore I also want more informations.
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Here is what I know about these musas.
My colleague in north central India has tried growing the sacred banana Virupakshi at his home. The stock comes from near the temple farther south which is decidedly zone 11b. This plant fails at his home which is zone 10a. As for the "Virupakshi" introduced into the U.S., I have no idea if it is the same plant.
The Hajaray and Pahari Kela have failed for growers in Camarillo, California and Rancho Santa Fe (San Diego) California. In the latter case, the plants died right next to plats with Raja Puri and Namwa. They do not appear to be cold hardy to me. However, our local expert Jon (pitangadiego) may have more on the subject for us.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Thanks, Richard. Do you know if the Camarillo grower obtained the Pahari Kel from Dr. Parmar? Are these experiences reported somewhere online where we can read more?

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Old 01-29-2009, 06:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Yes, any more information on whether it's from dr Parmar? Can these issues be overcome or not?
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Quote:
Originally Posted by harveyc View Post
Thanks, Richard. Do you know if the Camarillo grower obtained the Pahari Kel from Dr. Parmar? Are these experiences reported somewhere online where we can read more?
Harvey
The Camarillo grower is someone I met at a horticultural meeting. I have no information about their source. The Rancho Santa Fe grower obtained theirs while visiting family in India. All of this came up about 1 year ago when I was researching hardy bananas to grow at my home.
Note: on 1/5/2008 I joined this site and was not growing any bananas. I then spent 3 to 5 months seriously researching varieties and began to focus on about six. I then spent about 6 months acquiring varieties as they came available. Most of these came from members here, including bencelest (thanks!), MsKitty (thanks!), and of course pitangadiego (thanks! thanks!).
Dr. Parmar and I have discussed many things over the years. We have mailed each other letters, computer disks, and of course his CD. But on three occasions he has sent seeds but they did not make it all the way here. So at least in this region packages from him might be on a watch-list.

Quote:
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Yes, any more information on whether it's from dr Parmar? Can these issues be overcome or not?
You can't overcome the fact that most of India is a tropical climate. Even the Himalayan foothills are in zone 10 to 7,000 foot elevation.

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Old 02-01-2009, 09:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

USDA zones just dont work at this latitude.

see map of climate zones

File:India climatic zone map en.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

plants from the Eastern Highlands moist deciduous forests, the Himalayan subtropical broadleaf forests North Western Ghats moist deciduous forests are all possible candidates for european and US (non florida) growers.

Pahari Kela from Uttaranchal Pradesh and Hajaray from around Kalimpong West Bengal may grow with protection in USDA zones 7/8. i guess it's a matter of trying these things.

I doubt if there is a hardier banana than Basjoo, but it may be possible to find a cultivar that will produce edible fruit. Only one way to find out.

I was aware the Dhusray and Malbhog but not Hajaray had been exported from India before. Anyone with info on Dhusray and Malbhog growing outside of India?
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Old 02-01-2009, 01:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51st state View Post
I was aware the Dhusray and Malbhog but not Hajaray had been exported from India before. Anyone with info on Dhusray and Malbhog growing outside of India?
Now you've opened another can of worms! Everyone will be scampering to find out how to get some of these!
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

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Now you've opened another can of worms! Everyone will be scampering to find out how to get some of these!
Due in snowy Wiltshire shortly distribution will commence once they've had a little rest and put out at least some roots, so I know they're growing. and before anyone starts hardiness is not completely known. however they all grow in the area around Kalimpong.
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Hello Kev(51state),

In my place, Helen's hybrid can overwinter with very little damage completely
without any winter protection.
So it is not necessary for me to find out any species hardier than Basjoo,
and any species with the equivalent hardiness with Helen's hybrid will be ok.

What do you think the difference in the hardiness between Helen's hybrid and
these two species?
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

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Hello Kev(51state),

What do you think the difference in the hardiness between Helen's hybrid and
these two species?
No idea at all, although they are known to grow in the same area.

we shall see
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Quote:
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USDA zones just dont work at this latitude.
USDA hardiness zones work at any latitude because they are only concerned with average minimum low temperature.

Note that USDA zones are not climate zones. For that you need something more serious, such as the Sunset Garden zones.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Quote:
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USDA hardiness zones work at any latitude because they are only concerned with average minimum low temperature.

Note that USDA zones are not climate zones. For that you need something more serious, such as the Sunset Garden zones.
One more thing on this topic. Pahari Kela and others are Hill bananas. Meaning, that they need hill like conditions, not a lowland.. they won't perform well therefore in the lower based places.

Then if we should consider that India is Tropical or subtropical, we wouldn't be succesfully growing a variety of Trachycarpus palms all over the Europe (Even Scandinavia). Once you get from India to the region that has something to do with Himalaya, the conditions change a lot.

Even in my country - 10 km from Carpathian mountains oaks grow freely and widely, whereas the only small factor of 300 meters above the sea level in the hills seems to make such a big difference, that there are no oaks at all.

I now posses several Pahari Kela, I will give it a try and let you all know.
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Quote:
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One more thing on this topic. Pahari Kela and others are Hill bananas. Meaning, that they need hill like conditions, not a lowland.. they won't perform well therefore in the lower based places.
Jack, where have you read that Pahari Kela will not perform in lowlands?
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

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Jack, where have you read that Pahari Kela will not perform in lowlands?
Considering it's nature and descriptions. I haven't read that, it's just as with other fruits and vegetables. Conditions in higher elevations are significantly different, from wind, through precipitation, day-night temperatures difference. It's like trying to grow apples in tropical India. Unrealistic. Not because the conditions are bad, but becasue the apple tree needs certain amount of time to regenarate (winter time) and once the winter is weak or none at all, there's a problem and the apple trees will tire out, meaning, that it might die with any weak stress. And maybe that's why this banana grows only in the hills and mountainious India... ? Just guess... Will see...
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

I have assumed that this banana is only grown in the mountains is because it can survive in the mountains but there are better choices for the warmer climates. That's my guess but, as you say, we'll see. Once I get one, that is!

Even among things that naturally only grow in the mountains, many do very well in the lowlands of many areas.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

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I have assumed that this banana is only grown in the mountains is because it can survive in the mountains but there are better choices for the warmer climates. That's my guess but, as you say, we'll see. Once I get one, that is!

Even among things that naturally only grow in the mountains, many do very well in the lowlands of many areas.
When are your plants due to come? When did you pay/when were they send?
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: The cold hardiness of Hajaray hybrid and hills bananas

Chong is our USA organizer on this effort, so I'll leave it to him to post publicly about the status of this effort. I'm not holding my breath!
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