What is Glui Kai? - Page 2

Richard · 02-19-2009, 09:56 AM

Chong,
I have also read that reference. Those name equivalents are corroborated in the Musa Germplasm Information System and the literature at Tamil Nadu Agricultural University.

I have also noticed that just as Cavendish can refer to a subgroup or the original individual cultivar, Pisang Mas has the same usage. In particular I have repeatedly found:
Pisang Mas (subgroup) = Sucrier (subgroup).

Gabe15 · 02-19-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chong

From all the photos I’ve seen of the VC and PM, the fruits are identical, where the base and the tips are rounded or blunt, the skin shiny and tough. In comparison, Señorita fruits have pointed tips, though not quite a bottleneck shape, have thinner skins that break apart easily, almost sticking to the pulp, and not as shiny, and smaller in diameter than the VC or PM. The pulp of the VC and PM are likewise identical in color,i.e. very light golden yellow, while the Señorita is somewhat tinged with pinkish shade. That is why I think that the VC is closer to PM than Señorita.

As for reference, from “Banana Cultivar Names and Synonyms in Southeast Asia”:
In table 3. In the same subgroup: Musa acuminata Diploid AA (dessert):
Phil.: Amas = Malay: Pisang Mas = Thai: Kluai Khai

Phil.: Veinte Cohol = Malay: Pisang Masam = Thai: Kluai Hom Thong Son

(8 other variety follows before the next row)
Phil.: Inarnibal= Malay: Pisang Impat Puluh Hari = Thai: (No equivalent listed)

Phil.: Mama-on= Malay: Pisang Lemak Manis Terenganu = Thai: (No equivalent listed)

Phil.: (No equivalent listed)= Malay: (4 varieties follow)= Thai: (No equivalent listed on the following 2 rows). . . . . . .

In table 4. In the same subgroup: Musa acuminata Diploid AA (dessert):
Of the 8 entries under Philippines, only the first two entries had Malay and Thai equivalents, and only a Thai equivalent on the third:
Phil.: Bu-oy = Malay: Pisang Serindek= Thai: Kluai Lai

Phil.: Eda-an = Malay: Pisang Jarum= Thai: Kluai Nam Thai

Phil.: Ga-o = Malay: (No equivalent listed)= Thai: Kluai Thong Det

In the following 5 Philippine entries in this block, of which Señorita is listed 6th overall, there are no Malay, Indonesian, Thai or Vietnamese equivalent.

That table does not say they are equivalent or in the same subgroup, if you look carefully on those tables, it only lists that they are in the same genome, AA, and what their cultural use is. Subgroups exist within genomes and that document does not make any references as to what subgroups those varieties are in. As stated before, my understanding of the varieties as of now is that neither Pisang Mas, Senorita or Veinte Cohol are synonymous or even in the same subgroup (though they are definitely all have an AA genome), but based on morphology and growth habit, its possible that Veinte Cohol may be closer related to Senorita than to Pisang Mas. This is just a guess. You could be right in that Veinte Cohol is indeed closer related to Pisang Mas, but the information that is out there must be interpreted correctly, and as of yet, they all appear to be completely different cultivars.

There are many bananas with very similar fruit, but there are many more descriptors used to characterize bananas when classifying them. Fruit is just one, and when looking at the whole plant there may be other, more influential traits.

The genomes are not in any way monophyletic, all they state is the ploidy level of the plant and its chromosome composition to the species level of its wild ancestors. However, there were many different subspecies of M. acuminata (and though not fully invesitgated yet, likely different varieties of M. balbisiana as well) that contributed to the evolution of the edible bananas. Plants within a subgroup are very closely related, but other subgroups within the same genome may have had a very different evolutionary history, even though they are arrived at the same genome classification.

Caloosamusa · 02-19-2009, 04:34 PM

So the cultivar Glui Kai is Musa accuminata ssp ?

Richard · 02-19-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caloosamusa

So the cultivare Glui Kai is Musa accuminata ssp ?

It is a seedless hybrid, M.a. x M.a with AA genetics. Now M.a. x M.a. probably occurred in the wild millenia ago. Whether the particular subgroup this is from was a mutant or a cultivated selection I have no idea.

Gabe15 · 02-19-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

It is a seedless hybrid, M.a. x M.a with AA genetics. Now M.a. x M.a. probably occurred in the wild millenia ago. Whether the particular subgroup this is from was a mutant or a cultivated selection I have no idea.

AA genomes are usually derived from a single subspecies of M. acuminata, though hybrids between different subspecies as well as back-crosses are possible. However, based on the info I have now the three cultivars we have been discussing are all classified as being derived from M. acuminata subsp. microcarpa only.

Generally what I have noticed is that in more non-technical, "in the field" type manuals and documents, cultivars are referred to as forms of M. acuminata if they don't have any other genomes present, but in more technical documents, cultivars are rarely referred to as a form of a wild species, instead they are just classified by their ancestry and not associated as being a form of a wild species.

Caloosamusa · 02-20-2009, 06:30 AM

Thank you Gabe!

Musa accuminata microcarpa. This information helps me greatly.

Best wishes

just j · 05-20-2009, 05:53 PM

so does it fruit fast like a V.C. and what is the max hieght of it

Clare_CA · 10-17-2009, 06:18 PM

I was curious about the height on this one too so I did a search and came up with this thread. It says seven feet plus or minus earlier in this thread. My husband went to Thailand last year and the year before and saw a lot of this banana. He said the fruit is delicious. I'll have to search his pictures for some banana pics; although, a travel mate took this one:

Abnshrek · 10-17-2009, 11:37 PM

So the jist of this.. is if I ordered a Glui Kai I could get one of five varieties..? but they all taste good right(the bottom line)? lol

damaclese · 10-18-2009, 09:29 AM

my plants died unfortunately i over watered them they got lost in the jungle of my potted nursery i just had way to many Juvenal plants this summer i wont make that mistake again

sunfish · 10-18-2009, 09:38 AM

coast crab · 10-24-2009, 04:25 PM

I posted pictures of mine, now covered in black spots, in the health forum. The spots appeared after I moved it to full sun. Does glui kai prefer shade? It would be great for me if it did, I have planty of shade!

Russell

sunfish · 10-24-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coast crab

I posted pictures of mine, now covered in black spots, in the health forum. The spots appeared after I moved it to full sun. Does glui kai prefer shade? It would be great for me if it did, I have planty of shade!

Russell

The one pictured above is growing in full sun.

Clare_CA · 10-25-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coast crab

I posted pictures of mine, now covered in black spots, in the health forum. The spots appeared after I moved it to full sun. Does glui kai prefer shade? It would be great for me if it did, I have planty of shade!

Russell

My newly purchased one has spots too. I just planted it, and it gets shade after about 2:00 p.m. It seems to be doing okay though. It may be experiencing a little translant shock right now. How's yours doing?

1aday · 10-25-2009, 06:33 PM

I've gotten brown spots on several different varieties that were moved into the full sun from partial shade. Once mine went back into partial shade they grew out of it.
(these were all in pots)

Blake09 · 10-25-2009, 07:15 PM

Does anyone know what zone they can live in? And how much light they need?

coast crab · 10-25-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake09

Does anyone know what zone they can live in? And how much light they need?

Blake, I keep hoping one of our "experts" will shed some light on this too...

1aday, the spots on my plant (again, photos in the health forum) and Clare's aren't brown, they are black, and don't look like sunburn as Nicholas suggested in the other thread.

Clare, my plant came from Jimmmy, along with 3 others that are fine. This is the only one that has spotted. My plant did sunburn a little, but I don't think these spots are sun related. Tony's is in full sun with no spots.

Hmmm..........

R

Abnshrek · 10-25-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake09

Does anyone know what zone they can live in? And how much light they need?

Very good question..since the last time I looked there was no entry in the wiki.. So anyone with any info please help get that updated if you could so folks like blake and myself can make an informed decision.. for the Love of Banana's.. Peace Out...

Blake09 · 10-25-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnshrek

Very good question..since the last time I looked there was no entry in the wiki.. So anyone with any info please help get that updated if you could so folks like blake and myself can make an informed decision.. for the Love of Banana's.. Peace Out...

Yes still no wiki, just that Ime afraid to buy a couple of plants from Agri-starts and then plant it in the ground and it will die form the cold weather...

Abnshrek · 10-25-2009, 07:54 PM

I'm sure they would be a plant you'd have to keep indoors over winter. Especially since TC plants supposedly have less defenses of grown pup due to limited corm.. From what I've read some take a up to 2 years of growth to have the defenses of true natural growth banana..

02-19-2009, 09:56 AM	#21 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 508,644 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? Chong, I have also read that reference. Those name equivalents are corroborated in the Musa Germplasm Information System and the literature at Tamil Nadu Agricultural University. I have also noticed that just as Cavendish can refer to a subgroup or the original individual cultivar, Pisang Mas has the same usage. In particular I have repeatedly found: Pisang Mas (subgroup) = Sucrier (subgroup). __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

02-19-2009, 04:34 PM	#23 (permalink)
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02-20-2009, 06:30 AM	#26 (permalink)
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05-20-2009, 05:53 PM	#27 (permalink)
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10-17-2009, 06:18 PM	#28 (permalink)
Clare_CA Clare_CA's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 590 BananaBucks : 136,110 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,156 Times Was Thanked 844 Times in 277 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? I was curious about the height on this one too so I did a search and came up with this thread. It says seven feet plus or minus earlier in this thread. My husband went to Thailand last year and the year before and saw a lot of this banana. He said the fruit is delicious. I'll have to search his pictures for some banana pics; although, a travel mate took this one:

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10-17-2009, 11:37 PM	#29 (permalink)
Abnshrek Happy Growing Abnshrek 's Photo Gallery Location: Beaumont Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b, but 9b weather.. Name: Migael / Michael Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9,492 BananaBucks : 197,065 Feedback: 45 / 100% Said "Thanks" 10,447 Times Was Thanked 16,440 Times in 5,237 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,318 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? So the jist of this.. is if I ordered a Glui Kai I could get one of five varieties..? but they all taste good right(the bottom line)? lol __________________ I'm a Nannerhead :^)

10-18-2009, 09:29 AM	#30 (permalink)
damaclese Living in Exile damaclese's Photo Gallery Location: Henderson NV Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Mediterranean climate Name: Paulo Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,767 BananaBucks : 283,399 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,352 Times Was Thanked 1,620 Times in 706 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 101 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? my plants died unfortunately i over watered them they got lost in the jungle of my potted nursery i just had way to many Juvenal plants this summer i wont make that mistake again __________________ Helping to foster understanding for the learning disabled

10-18-2009, 09:38 AM	#31 (permalink)
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10-24-2009, 04:25 PM	#32 (permalink)
coast crab garden variety plant nerd coast crab's Photo Gallery Location: Lovely Mobile, Alabama - The Heart of Dixie Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Russell Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 427 BananaBucks : 66,022 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 29 Times Was Thanked 418 Times in 182 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? I posted pictures of mine, now covered in black spots, in the health forum. The spots appeared after I moved it to full sun. Does glui kai prefer shade? It would be great for me if it did, I have planty of shade! Russell __________________

10-25-2009, 06:33 PM	#35 (permalink)
1aday 1aday's Photo Gallery Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 224 BananaBucks : 42,073 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 15 Times Was Thanked 184 Times in 105 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? I've gotten brown spots on several different varieties that were moved into the full sun from partial shade. Once mine went back into partial shade they grew out of it. (these were all in pots) __________________ Susan

10-25-2009, 07:15 PM	#36 (permalink)
Blake09 Blake09 's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Zone: Zone 7B Name: Blake Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,237 BananaBucks : 109,994 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,424 Times Was Thanked 1,105 Times in 448 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 328 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? Does anyone know what zone they can live in? And how much light they need? __________________ A banana plant in the autumn gale - I listen to the dripping of rain Into a basin at night. ~ Basho Matsuo (1644- 1694)

10-25-2009, 07:54 PM	#40 (permalink)
Abnshrek Happy Growing Abnshrek 's Photo Gallery Location: Beaumont Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b, but 9b weather.. Name: Migael / Michael Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9,492 BananaBucks : 197,065 Feedback: 45 / 100% Said "Thanks" 10,447 Times Was Thanked 16,440 Times in 5,237 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,318 Times	Re: What is Glui Kai? I'm sure they would be a plant you'd have to keep indoors over winter. Especially since TC plants supposedly have less defenses of grown pup due to limited corm.. From what I've read some take a up to 2 years of growth to have the defenses of true natural growth banana.. __________________ I'm a Nannerhead :^)

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