Is this Musa Nagensium?

Georgie · 10-18-2006, 04:15 PM

Hello everyone. I'm new here and I'd welcome some advice please. I was given some Musa seed earlier this year (variety unknown) and to my delight one germinated. I now have a plant with about 6-8 mid-green leaves which is around 18" tall. I very much doubt it is a hardy variety so I intend to pop it in the mini greenhouse over winter. Can anyone identify the genus please and give me any tips? Thanks. G x

Zac in NC · 10-18-2006, 05:06 PM

Glad you came over here at my suggestion. Welcome.

Enjoy the smilies. They are fun.

Zac

Georgie · 10-18-2006, 05:11 PM

Yes, I made it. Thanks Zac.

G x

Taylor · 10-18-2006, 06:20 PM

HAH! Remember on AIM Zac??? "Invite him to Bananas.org"

Zac in NC · 10-18-2006, 06:55 PM

That was before but yeah, I am doing my part for the site as far as recruitment goes.

Zac

mrbungalow · 10-19-2006, 01:43 AM

In my opinion, the plant is way too young for identification. They tend to show their real characteristics when they have some size, planted in the ground. So far it looks just like my "musa helen" of the same size. But I suppose it could also be cheesmani or nagensium, or anything with a waxy pseudostem. It is not likely to be clean nagensium, since clean nagensium seeds are not on the market these days (and are supposed to be white?).

Unfortunately I do this all the time. Plant seeds/seedlings and forget to label. Once, I thought I had sprouted 100 itinerans when in reality it was regular ornata! Illustrates the importance to label what you plant! In the past years I have gotten better though!

Erlend

Mark Hall · 10-19-2006, 06:12 AM

Georgie nice to see you over here as well. Sorry if I misled you with my guess of Balbisiana Ijust didn't think the leaves were pointed enough to be Nagensium still these guys are the experts

Mark

Georgie · 10-19-2006, 12:59 PM

Hi Erlend. Thanks for your advice, I guess I'll just have to be patient then. Just to put the record straight, I didn't lose the label. The seeds were a present from my friend's children which were in a kit called 'grow your own bananas'. There was no clue at all to the varriety though.

Hi again Mark. Yes I saw your suggestion that it might be Balbisiaria and I've made a note. But there are more votes for Nagensium on the other site at the moment.

G x

MediaHound · 10-19-2006, 01:04 PM

Hi Georgie, I can't get you a positive ID on the plant, but I just wanted to welcome you aboard.

Georgie · 10-19-2006, 03:27 PM

Thanks Mediahound.

G x

mrbungalow · 10-19-2006, 04:02 PM

Could this be where it was purchased?

http://www.fatbraintoys.com/toy_comp...own_plants.cfm

I suppose it could be nagensium, but that would be really spectacular as it is kind of rare in cultivation. Balbisiana is also a possibility. Do you remember what the seeds looked like?

Here is a discussion going on about musa nagensium seeds on this forum.
Musa nagensium seeds for reference

BTW, warmest welcomes to the forum!

Erlend

Georgie · 10-19-2006, 04:17 PM

Wow, now I'm seriously impressed. That was exactly the kit I was given. But does it help? The seeds, as I recall, were either very dark brown or black. There were 5 or 6 but only one germinated.

G x

mrbungalow · 10-19-2006, 04:31 PM

I vote for Musa Velutina first, musa balbisiana second.

The reason for this is that Musa Balbisiana is considered one of the easiest to sprout, and since this kit is intended for children, that should be an asset. My reason for doubt is the red colouring on the plant. Balbisiana isn't supposed to have red.

Musa Velutina is also easy to sprout, but stays reasonably small and flowers early. (Fun for kids, easier for parents!) It can also contain a fair amount of red in leaves and stems. Can be variable. Search for photos on this site.

Could also be Musa Acuminata since this species contains red colouring, but then again, so do many other species. I don't know if musa acuminata can be that powdery though. Also, Musa Acuminata is commonly believed to produce edible bananas (wich is wrong, but still a strong marketing-tool.)

In any case, it looks like you have a beautyful plant!

Best of luck!
Erlend

Georgie · 10-19-2006, 04:42 PM

Thanks again, Erlend. May I ask a few more questions? I assume that this Musa (whichever variety it is) will not be frost hardy in its first year, even though I live in London with a garden which rarely, if ever, gets below freezing. The only way I can give it protection is in my mini greenhouse which is unheated. I'm assuming I should keep it dry now until spring and wrap it in a few layers of fleece. Is that right?

G x

bigdog · 10-19-2006, 06:18 PM

I think musa velutina can be ruled out. I've never seen that much wax on a young (or older) m. velutina. Pretty sure that isn't not musa cheesmani or m. nagensium either. They both have purple midribs on the underside of the leaves, which that plant doesn't (at least from what I can tell...can you take a picture of the underside of the leaves please?). I don't think that it's m. acuminata or m. balbisiana either. M. coccinea and m. beccarii can both be ruled out also.

My vote is for some form of musa ornata. The leaf bases are unequal-sided, which rules out a lot of species.

Zac in NC · 10-19-2006, 07:52 PM

Yeah I agree with Frank that it isn't velutina. In fact, I have never seen a velutina with a waxy bloom ( no not the flower- its a botanical term) on the pseudostem like that at all, they have all been glabrous and all green.

<- Pink nanner for velutina....

Zac

mrbungalow · 10-20-2006, 01:28 AM

Bigdog and Zac are right. I jumped to conclusions a bit too fast.
Musa Ornata. It certainly fits the description here:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/mornata.htm

Cheers

Erlend

Georgie · 10-20-2006, 02:44 PM

Hi big dog, thanks for your advice. I'm sorry but taking advice from another forum - possibly unwisely - I have already taken off all the leaves apart from the growing tip and put the plant in my mini greenhouse. I only have two other pictures of the plant but I'll post them here in case they help.

The Musa in situ

Naked!

G x

wim · 10-20-2006, 06:02 PM

I took a look at http://www.fatbraintoys.com/toy_comp...own_plants.cfm

They are also selling a number of pitcher plant seed-kits, for kids. Given how long it takes a pitcher plant to grow from seed to an adult, flowering plant (+- 7 years), this doesn't seem like a great gift for a kid. The first years they only grow to 1"-2". Only after they develop big pitchers that are capable of catching significantly big insects, that those plants grow 8 inches a year.

mrbungalow · 10-21-2006, 09:23 AM

Yeah, probably not what you want for your 8ths birthday. Seeds that take years to become a plant! "Gee, Thanks for the gift.!"

Georgie; The guy on the other forum who adviced you to cut off the leaves deserves a good onion up the nose! When the dark season comes, it will need as much green as possible for energy absorbtion to maintain metabolism.
I like to think of leaves as sails. Without sails there's nothing to power the ship.

Erlend

10-18-2006, 04:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
Georgie Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11 BananaBucks : 379 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Welcomes: 0	Is this Musa Nagensium? Hello everyone. I'm new here and I'd welcome some advice please. I was given some Musa seed earlier this year (variety unknown) and to my delight one germinated. I now have a plant with about 6-8 mid-green leaves which is around 18" tall. I very much doubt it is a hardy variety so I intend to pop it in the mini greenhouse over winter. Can anyone identify the genus please and give me any tips? Thanks. G x

10-18-2006, 05:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zac in NC Plant Nerd Extrordinaire Location: NC, on my way back to texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8ish Name: Zac Hill Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 255 BananaBucks : 1,681 Feedback: 1 / 100% Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 18 Posts Welcomes: 5	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Glad you came over here at my suggestion. Welcome. Enjoy the smilies. They are fun. Zac

10-18-2006, 05:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
Georgie Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11 BananaBucks : 379 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Welcomes: 0	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Yes, I made it. Thanks Zac. G x

10-18-2006, 06:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Taylor KING OF KORM. Taylor 's Photo Gallery Location: VA Find me on the map! Zone: 8a Name: Taylor Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,415 BananaBucks : 11,209 Feedback: 13 / 100% Thanks: 190 Thanked 152 Times in 99 Posts Welcomes: 193	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? HAH! Remember on AIM Zac??? "Invite him to Bananas.org" __________________ Taylor Update: 23 California Gold fruit expected by Thanksgiving! Harvested!

10-18-2006, 06:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zac in NC Plant Nerd Extrordinaire Location: NC, on my way back to texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8ish Name: Zac Hill Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 255 BananaBucks : 1,681 Feedback: 1 / 100% Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 18 Posts Welcomes: 5	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? That was before but yeah, I am doing my part for the site as far as recruitment goes. Zac

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10-19-2006, 01:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 591 BananaBucks : 7,707 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 12 Thanked 83 Times in 49 Posts Welcomes: 3	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? In my opinion, the plant is way too young for identification. They tend to show their real characteristics when they have some size, planted in the ground. So far it looks just like my "musa helen" of the same size. But I suppose it could also be cheesmani or nagensium, or anything with a waxy pseudostem. It is not likely to be clean nagensium, since clean nagensium seeds are not on the market these days (and are supposed to be white?). Unfortunately I do this all the time. Plant seeds/seedlings and forget to label. Once, I thought I had sprouted 100 itinerans when in reality it was regular ornata! Illustrates the importance to label what you plant! In the past years I have gotten better though! Erlend __________________

10-19-2006, 06:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
Mark Hall Mark Mark Hall's Photo Gallery Location: Windsor u.k. Find me on the map! Name: Mark Hall Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 421 BananaBucks : 4,985 Feedback: 1 / 100% Thanks: 87 Thanked 58 Times in 35 Posts Welcomes: 2	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Georgie nice to see you over here as well. Sorry if I misled you with my guess of Balbisiana Ijust didn't think the leaves were pointed enough to be Nagensium still these guys are the experts Mark __________________ Time Flies like an Arrow.....Fruit flies like a Banana.

10-19-2006, 12:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
Georgie Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11 BananaBucks : 379 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Welcomes: 0	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Hi Erlend. Thanks for your advice, I guess I'll just have to be patient then. Just to put the record straight, I didn't lose the label. The seeds were a present from my friend's children which were in a kit called 'grow your own bananas'. There was no clue at all to the varriety though. Hi again Mark. Yes I saw your suggestion that it might be Balbisiaria and I've made a note. But there are more votes for Nagensium on the other site at the moment. G x

10-19-2006, 01:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
MediaHound Tally-man MediaHound's Photo Gallery Location: South Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 10b Name: Jarred Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,053 BananaBucks : 56,533 Feedback: 58 / 100% Thanks: 966 Thanked 1,124 Times in 397 Posts Welcomes: 251	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Hi Georgie, I can't get you a positive ID on the plant, but I just wanted to welcome you aboard.

10-19-2006, 03:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Georgie Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11 BananaBucks : 379 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Welcomes: 0	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Thanks Mediahound. G x

10-19-2006, 04:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 591 BananaBucks : 7,707 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 12 Thanked 83 Times in 49 Posts Welcomes: 3	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Could this be where it was purchased? http://www.fatbraintoys.com/toy_comp...own_plants.cfm I suppose it could be nagensium, but that would be really spectacular as it is kind of rare in cultivation. Balbisiana is also a possibility. Do you remember what the seeds looked like? Here is a discussion going on about musa nagensium seeds on this forum. Musa nagensium seeds for reference BTW, warmest welcomes to the forum! Erlend __________________

10-19-2006, 04:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
Georgie Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11 BananaBucks : 379 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Welcomes: 0	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Wow, now I'm seriously impressed. That was exactly the kit I was given. But does it help? The seeds, as I recall, were either very dark brown or black. There were 5 or 6 but only one germinated. G x

10-19-2006, 04:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 591 BananaBucks : 7,707 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 12 Thanked 83 Times in 49 Posts Welcomes: 3	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? I vote for Musa Velutina first, musa balbisiana second. The reason for this is that Musa Balbisiana is considered one of the easiest to sprout, and since this kit is intended for children, that should be an asset. My reason for doubt is the red colouring on the plant. Balbisiana isn't supposed to have red. Musa Velutina is also easy to sprout, but stays reasonably small and flowers early. (Fun for kids, easier for parents!) It can also contain a fair amount of red in leaves and stems. Can be variable. Search for photos on this site. Could also be Musa Acuminata since this species contains red colouring, but then again, so do many other species. I don't know if musa acuminata can be that powdery though. Also, Musa Acuminata is commonly believed to produce edible bananas (wich is wrong, but still a strong marketing-tool.) In any case, it looks like you have a beautyful plant! Best of luck! Erlend __________________

10-19-2006, 04:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
Georgie Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11 BananaBucks : 379 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Welcomes: 0	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Thanks again, Erlend. May I ask a few more questions? I assume that this Musa (whichever variety it is) will not be frost hardy in its first year, even though I live in London with a garden which rarely, if ever, gets below freezing. The only way I can give it protection is in my mini greenhouse which is unheated. I'm assuming I should keep it dry now until spring and wrap it in a few layers of fleece. Is that right? G x

10-19-2006, 06:18 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigdog Title-less bigdog's Photo Gallery Location: Knoxville, TN Find me on the map! Zone: 7a Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,456 BananaBucks : 4,830 Feedback: 5 / 100% Thanks: 74 Thanked 369 Times in 153 Posts Welcomes: 84	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? I think musa velutina can be ruled out. I've never seen that much wax on a young (or older) m. velutina. Pretty sure that isn't not musa cheesmani or m. nagensium either. They both have purple midribs on the underside of the leaves, which that plant doesn't (at least from what I can tell...can you take a picture of the underside of the leaves please?). I don't think that it's m. acuminata or m. balbisiana either. M. coccinea and m. beccarii can both be ruled out also. My vote is for some form of musa ornata. The leaf bases are unequal-sided, which rules out a lot of species.

10-19-2006, 07:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
Zac in NC Plant Nerd Extrordinaire Location: NC, on my way back to texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8ish Name: Zac Hill Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 255 BananaBucks : 1,681 Feedback: 1 / 100% Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 18 Posts Welcomes: 5	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Yeah I agree with Frank that it isn't velutina. In fact, I have never seen a velutina with a waxy bloom ( no not the flower- its a botanical term) on the pseudostem like that at all, they have all been glabrous and all green. <- Pink nanner for velutina.... Zac

10-20-2006, 01:28 AM	#17 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 591 BananaBucks : 7,707 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 12 Thanked 83 Times in 49 Posts Welcomes: 3	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Bigdog and Zac are right. I jumped to conclusions a bit too fast. Musa Ornata. It certainly fits the description here: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/mornata.htm Cheers Erlend __________________

10-20-2006, 02:44 PM	#18 (permalink)
Georgie Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11 BananaBucks : 379 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Welcomes: 0	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Hi big dog, thanks for your advice. I'm sorry but taking advice from another forum - possibly unwisely - I have already taken off all the leaves apart from the growing tip and put the plant in my mini greenhouse. I only have two other pictures of the plant but I'll post them here in case they help. The Musa in situ Naked! G x

10-20-2006, 06:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
wim Member wim's Photo Gallery Location: Belgium Find me on the map! Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 90 BananaBucks : 632 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Welcomes: 0	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? I took a look at http://www.fatbraintoys.com/toy_comp...own_plants.cfm They are also selling a number of pitcher plant seed-kits, for kids. Given how long it takes a pitcher plant to grow from seed to an adult, flowering plant (+- 7 years), this doesn't seem like a great gift for a kid. The first years they only grow to 1"-2". Only after they develop big pitchers that are capable of catching significantly big insects, that those plants grow 8 inches a year. __________________ With kind regards Wim

10-21-2006, 09:23 AM	#20 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 591 BananaBucks : 7,707 Feedback: 0 / 0% Thanks: 12 Thanked 83 Times in 49 Posts Welcomes: 3	Re: Is this Musa Nagensium? Yeah, probably not what you want for your 8ths birthday. Seeds that take years to become a plant! "Gee, Thanks for the gift.!" Georgie; The guy on the other forum who adviced you to cut off the leaves deserves a good onion up the nose! When the dark season comes, it will need as much green as possible for energy absorbtion to maintain metabolism. I like to think of leaves as sails. Without sails there's nothing to power the ship. Erlend __________________