GreenFin

I'm growing a number of Cavendish varieties side-by-side under the same conditions: Little Prince, SDC, DC, Double, and Grand Nain. All have prominent wine markings (they all just look like different sized versions of each other) except for the one that's supposed to be a Musa Double, which has never had any wine marks at all.

The Double is the biggest and oldest Cavendish in the group, and remained totally green throughout the stages when the others started showing marks. It currently has a p-stem around 2' and a total height close to 4'.

Is this normal for a Double, or is this reason to think that the plant was mislabeled?

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caliboy1994

I think blood marks are normal for most Cavendish varieties. Double Mahoi is a Cavendish variety, so I would expect it to have blood markings too. It could be mislabeled, or maybe it did have blood marks before and they just disappeared as the plant aged.

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caliboy1994

If you post a picture of the plant someone might be able to tell if it might be mislabeled.

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GreenFin

I got the Double as a young tc plant. The SDC, DC, and GN are all much larger now than the Double was when I got it, and they all still have profuse markings.

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caliboy1994

It might be mislabeled then. Can you get a picture when you get the chance?

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GreenFin

I'll put some pics in my next post below, but what I'm really after in this thread is general knowledge about Musa Double.

I'm curious:

Does every Double display wine marks at some time in its life, or do some stay 100% green their entire lives?

If some Doubles stay 100% green throughout their lives, does it ever happen in environments in which all other Cavendishes have prominent wine marks, or is it instead the case that if all other Cavendishes in a given environment display wine marks, then Doubles in that environment will also display wine marks?

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GreenFin

Here's a closeup of the plant from a couple of days ago:



Here it is yesterday after I cleaned out the green beans, cucumber, and butternut squash (of the four taller plants in the background, it's on the far right):

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caliboy1994

I can't really tell myself, but maybe an expert might be able to rule it out. You'll know for sure when it fruits.

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caliboy1994

I was trying to rule out the possibility that it was a Cavendish variety, and as far as I know they all have open petioles. The petioles on that plant are at least partially open, so it is possible it is actually Double Mahoi and that it doesn't have wine splotches for some reason. I'm not an expert at banana identification

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venturabananas

The Double ("Mahoi") is just a mutation of DC, so it should look pretty similar, including wine stains on water pups. That said, there's a lot of variation in coloration in banana plants. For example, water pups of one variety might usually have wine stains, whereas sword pups normally don't.

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GreenFin

Here's an update on the plant that FHN sold to me as Musa 'Double' (AAA).

Cavendish bananas like the 'Double' typically have wine marks on juvenile leaves and wide-open petioles, but my plant has never had any wine marks (I got it as a 4" tall baby) and its petioles range from 2/3 to fully closed (a trait associated with ABB and AAB varieties rather than AAA varieties). Furthermore, whereas Cavendish bananas are extremely susceptible to cold (like my 'Dwarf Cavendish' and 'Williams Hybrid' planted nearby that went dormant early on and started dying back), this plant has kept pace with my hardiest varieties.

My best guess heading into the inflorescence was that it was either a 'Dwarf Namwah' (ABB) or 'Raja Puri' (AAB). Now that it has started flowering (p-stem 5'6") and the first hand is exposed, DN appears unlikely, since Namwahs have purple pedicels (the connectors between the individual fruits and the base of the hand), but this plant produces green pedicels.  [see Ice Cream ‘Blue java’ flag leaf... In zone 7b!!!! for lots of great pics of purple pedicels on a Namwah]

There are very few fruit (10 fingers on the first hand, 2nd hand is an intermediate hand with mostly male fingers and just 3 females, and each ensuing hand is all male), but that may be the result of the plant attempting its first flower in the dead of winter and getting frosted when the bud was emerging.

What do you think? Is it Raja Puri or something else?



Some additional pics (I used a water heater to help keep the flower going):

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ez

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venturabananas

It's not Rajapuri, which has red edged petiole canals which are more open. Mostly likely Dwarf Orinoco.

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ez

I was thinking the same thing, the dark red female flower did remind me of Orinoco but thought it was caused by GreenFin's microclimate and didn't notice the lack of red color in the petiole margin.


It's amazing that in your zone you can grow edible bananas and get them to flower, great work GreenFin and post more photos as the fingers mature.

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PR-Giants

Congrats GreenFin, Nice Bunch

Here are some links & some of Gabe's photos.

Take a good look at the pup in the first photo.

Hope it helps.

Musa Rajapuri - Bananas Wiki

Indoor fruiting 'Raja Puri'

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GreenFin

Thanks for weighing in. I agree that DO is one of the leading candidates.

The very small number of fingers reminded me of DO, but these fruit all have squarish cross-sections with 4 or 5 sides, and I thought DO fruit were supposed to be triangular.

I also have what Wellspring sold to me as a DO growing a few feet away (see Musa 'Jazz Hands'). It has always looked in line with the pics of DO's I see here, and strikes me as a very different cultivar from all of my other bananas (because it's a banana/plantain hybrid?) in terms of looks and growing style. That said, some of the pics on the DO wiki page look similar to my unknown plant and different from my purported DO from Wellspring, so maybe my DO from Wellspring is a weirdo and shouldn't be used for comparison.

The banana in this thread is growing really slowly right now, but I'll post more pics as it continues to develop. If it's a DO, the bracts over the male flowers should fall off, leaving a clean rachis.

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venturabananas

Orinoco fruits are angular, but not necessarily triangular. See the photos in the wiki and in the link below:

TARS 17397 - Musa hybr. - Dwarf Orinoco - Florida, United States

Yes, a clean rachis and a long peduncle (relative to most dwarf varieties) would be good evidence of DO.

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RAINFOREZT

Pic of my Double Mahoi from FHN ...pic taken on last june

RAINFOREZT

PR-Giants

Any updates ?

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