freediver

Hi all, this is an old family variety that we call ladyfinger, but I am a bit skeptical of that because it tastes and handles differently to the ladyfinger bananas in the shop (in Australia). There are four photos and some descriptions here:

Fruit tree recommendations for South East Queensland

druss

Im curious, how long has it been in qld and did it originate in south africa?

freediver

It has been in the state at least 40 years, probably over 50. Both of the grandparents who had them are dead now. No idea where it originally came from. I think they were in the Gympie (QLD) area back then.

Hamakua

The pictures look like Mysore

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brod

Looks like the sugar bannana, not ladyfinger which is more angular, not Mysore, no colour on the leaf stems, possibly Ducassee.

freediver

I had in my mind that they were sugar bananas recently, but I cannot remember why.

They do not have the red centre down the leaf, so probably not Mysore.

A lot of the ladyfinger photos I see have hairy looking bits just below the fruit on the bunch. I have never seen mine do that.

freediver

Just to add to the confusion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Finger_banana

It is known in English as Lady finger banana, Sugar banana, Finger banana, Fig banana, Date banana, or Sucrier. In the US, this cultivar is also known as 'Glui Leb Mu Nang', a name of Thai origin popularized by Agristarts. The Thai name is กล้วยเล็บมือนาง (RTGS: kluai Leb Mu Nang, IPA: [kluːəj Leb Mu Nang], lit. 'finger lady') and the Malaysian name is pisang mas. Similarly, in Cambodia, it is referred to as chek pong moan (Khmer: ចេកពងមាន់), lit. 'chicken-egg banana', where it is considered the national fruit of Cambodia by royal decree.[4] In Venezuela, they are known as cambures titiaros.

In Australia, the name 'Lady Finger banana' refers to another banana cultivar, the Pome banana (Musa acuminata × balbisiana Colla (AAB Group) cv. 'Pome'). In Hawaii and the West Indies, 'Lady Finger' is also used to describe the Ney Poovan banana cultivar (Musa acuminata × balbisiana Colla (AB Group) cv. 'Ney Poovan').[2]

Growing Sugar Bananas (Ducasse) in the home garden

For both reasons we were happy to find that ours are not Cavendish. Eventually we worked out that they are not Lady Fingers either (it always seemed improbable, because ours are much stumpier than Cavendish and surely ladies’ fingers should be slim?), but Sugar Bananas, more formally ‘Ducasse‘. They were apparently introduced to northern Australia from Thailand in the 1880s.

Tytaylor77

The fruit itself looks more like a Mysore than a Pisang awak type. It’s impossible to say what it is without more pictures. Do you have pictures of he developing bunch? Flower? Also where each fingers pedicles connects to the peduncle. On namwa they have a large pad that is fairly easy to tell.

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freediver

Here is a small bunch from a drier spot:



I don't have any flowers on at the moment.

Note that I can upload full resolution photos if that helps.

I noticed another small bunch with a small amount of that hairy stuff below the fruit. I'll again for a good photo, the last one was too blurry.

An Asian lady pulled up while I was working on them this morning and asked for some leaves for cooking. She was fairly adamant they are sugar bananas. The leaves from the 'other variety' are no good. I'm trimming everything back at the moment because the council is onto me about trees on the verge and I may have to remove everything.

Tytaylor77

Can you take more photos showing another angle? One showing up close where the finger pedicles touch the hand would help also.

Also is the bunch horizontal to the ground like a pome type (Brazilian)?

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freediver

I'll bring a chair down tomorrow and get some more photos. It's hard to get good ones because they are a bit high. The bunches hang down, between 45 degrees and vertical.

freediver

freediver

New bunch just coming in:

Hamakua

Manzano

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Currently Growing:
Blue Java, FHIA 01, Gros Michelle, Dwarf Orinoco, Maoli Ele Ele, Maoli Manini, Maoli Dwarf Kaualau, Putalinga Kula, Iholena Lele, Iholena Ula Ula, Iholena Iholena, Iholena Kapua, Unknown purple leafed Iholena, Tuu Ghia, Tagomor, Luba, Kokor, Vunumami, Hapai

freediver

I had a bit of a google, and the way the skin turns black on Manzanos does not look familiar. I'll get some photos as these ones over-ripen. Also, I see photos of ripe and over-ripe bananas still on the hand, which is not possible with mine because they fall off the hand as soon as they are all yellow. I took great care with the photo of a single hand (link in my opening post), but you can still see some of the fruit snapping off, even though the end of the fruit where it attaches to the hand is still green. Perhaps the commercial ones that are picked green stay on the hand better.

Hamakua

Those are characteristics heavily influenced by environment. To me, the flowers say Manzano.

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Currently Growing:
Blue Java, FHIA 01, Gros Michelle, Dwarf Orinoco, Maoli Ele Ele, Maoli Manini, Maoli Dwarf Kaualau, Putalinga Kula, Iholena Lele, Iholena Ula Ula, Iholena Iholena, Iholena Kapua, Unknown purple leafed Iholena, Tuu Ghia, Tagomor, Luba, Kokor, Vunumami, Hapai

freediver

Thanks. Some detailed info here:

https://sun.ars-grin.gov/may/documen...l-v1.0-web.pdf

(very large file)

Also:

Silk subgroup | The banana knowledge platform of the ProMusa network

The Silk subgroup belongs to the AAB genome group and includes cultivars that produce sweet-acid fruits whose flavour is reminiscent of apples, hence the use of the names Apple, Manzana and Figue pomme to refer to these bananas. Their susceptibility to Fusarium wilt has led to a decline in their importance.

The peel of ripe fruits splits easily. The skin at the upper surface of the pedicel tends to break transversely, so that the fruit falls.

Silk cultivars are often confused with those in the Pome subgroup. They differ in having a more slender male bud, narrower and more pointed bracts and more numerous male flowers.

Gabe15

Does not look like Manzano to me. Looks fine to be a Pome-type Australian ‘Ladyfinger’, but you may notice they are different from commercial ones because there are a number of different cultivars, and this is not the sort that would be grown commercially anyway.

Bananas mutate relatively easily, and if youre 100% sure its different from other tall type Ladyfingers that people would grow in gardens (not fruit you might find in a store), then you could consider it a distinct cultivar.

However, you must also be aware that environmental conditions can change the characters of the fruit significantly, and so just because a fruit is different when you experience it, that does not necessarily mean it is from a different plant altogether.

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freediver

I have no idea what others grow in their garden. I have only just started looking into it. I am mostly comparing it with what I can get in the shop, which tastes pretty bland in comparison, and also different, like a different type of sugar.

I had a look through the Pome varieties in that first link in my previous post and none of them strike me as a match. The fruit is too narrow and a lot of them have a lot of dead brats hanging off the male flower.

The Mysore and Manzano varieties look most similar, but the description of the Manzano fruit falling off makes me lean towards that one.

Out of interest, what varieties are sold in Australia as ladyfinger?

Gabe15

The commercial Ladyfinger varieties are all the dwarf forms such as ‘Prata Ana’ which have persistent bracts, unike the tall forms like yours in which the bracts and flowers fall.

The fruit shape is totally wrong for Silk/Manzano, as is the bract
color, imbrication, and young peduncle color.

Using taste as an ID trait is not reliable, especially commercial fruits as you dont know how they are handled. Storage at low termperatures for extended periods of time can drastically change the flavor, and grocery stores are often mishandling produce and storing tropical fruits such as banana below the temp they should be at which often leads to flavor loss.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.