Taylor

Wow, big difference between the two......

Taylor

Zac- I know- that would be so cool!

And Zac again- and mrbungalow- Yeah definately a rare mutation of Ingens right there! Who would have known....

bigdog

I actually haven't seen Musa mannii flower. It is very cold-hardy, but our growing season is not long enough for it to flower here. As for the peduncle being horizontal, none of the descriptions of mannii say that. In fact, they all state that it is erect. Moore says this of the inflorescence though:

Which would lead me to believe that the inflorescence tilts at a slight angle from the peduncle. Gotta admit, I really didn't pay that close attention to the "pale crimson" description of the bracts though. Oops!

Musa rubinea looks different, to me, than Musa mannii. I like this pic for reference (from the folks that introduced Musa rubinea into cultivation). Musa rubinea is in the foreground, and Musa ornata in the background.


Just found this picture...taken October 26, 2005, of my clump of Musa mannii (R.I.P.). This is as close as I've gotten to a flower - a flag leaf.



An August 20th, 2005 shot of the small clump:



So, while what Taylor's photo shows may not be the true Musa mannii, I think it more closely resembles M. mannii than M. ornata. No, the flower color is not right for M. mannii, and there isn't much black coloration (but there is a little) on the pseudostems. Probably a hybrid of sorts.

Gabe, where did you get those pics? Where were they taken? Given that the description of M. mannii says that the peduncle is erect, maybe those pics are not of M. mannii, and actually something else? Just a thought.

Gabe15

Frank,
the first 2 pictures are from various seed websites I and took the last 2 at The Huntington in California earlier this year. I have many more pictures if you would like to see in private. You can believe what you want, but Taylor's pictures are not Musa mannii, and the ones I posted are. I dont think its possible that Taylor's plant can be a pure species at all, given that even pure M. ornata is not a pure species and there are many cultivated hybrids, however, it is much closer to Musa ornata (definetly has M. ornata parentage) and is not similar at all to Musa mannii.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

bigdog

Gabe...I will concede that Taylor's plants may not be Musa mannii. I do, however, think that they look similar to musa mannii in growth habit, size, etc.

I have a question about your pictures. Since all of the descriptions of Musa mannii state that the peduncle is erect, how does that explain the semihorizontal-horizontal peduncles in your pics?

I love a good debate. It's all in fun!

Gabe15

Those original descriptions are not a percise as some of the modern ones. Most species are either pendant or erect, especially many of the ones described in that time, however, since M. mannii is closer to being erect then pedant, I imagine they just "rounded" it off without mentioning its intermediate position, also, everything still points up most of the time, just kinda up-and-sideways, there will of course be differences between individual plants however. Both Musa ornata and Musa mannii are in the section Rhodochlamys as Im sure you know which generally have very similar growth habits, so its best we distingiush them by flowers instead of foliage.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.