robguz24

I had expected this to be another Dwarf Brazillian, because 4 years ago all my plants were supposedly either that or Williams, and none were marked. Clearly this isn't a Dwarf Brazillian, but it looks a bit different that the Williams I have. Could it be another Gros Michel? The flower stalk is fuzzy and the rachis is kinked. I didn't any pictures of the female flowers. Any thoughts on what this is?

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Yug

Could it be a dwarf Orinoco? I'm just guessing it is not GM, because the petioles have little color. You get the same light that I do, so I'd expect the same amount of color.

robguz24

Yug, yours looks totally different than the one I have that Gabe said he thought was a GM. And the one I posted here looks pretty much the same as the one he thought was a GM. It's funny, the Kepler and Rust book states that one way to tell if it's a GM is "leaf stalks very pale green with no distinct red margins."

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Yug

Well, the one I pictured came from Gabe, and he told me an indicator was the reddish petioles, and the wide open petiole 'wings'. So... perhaps something is getting lost in 'transmission'.

robguz24

I know, it's so difficult. Two totally different sources way more informed that I will ever be state very different things. But I guess with so many different varieties, some is still inevitably a guess, or just due to variation in climate and soil. My pictures for this plant don't show it well, but they definitely have wide open petiole wings, much like the one Gabe said he thought was a GM. I think microclimates and soil must be big factors, even within Hawaii. Where I live gets half the rain of Hilo, but 10 times the amount of the Kohala coast, all on the same island! And where I am has no soil at all, so everything seems to grow a bit less than the normal height.

Here are the others that Gabe thought was GM.

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venturabananas

I don't know the answer, but it could be Gros Michel. The Kepler and Rust book does mention (after stating "leaf stalks very pale green with no distinct red margins") that "strong sun may encourage a red wash" on the petioles; and Daniels' ID guide mentions that the petioles can be green or pink, depending on conditions. On my plants (none of which are Gros Michel), the amount of red on the petioles really depends on all sorts of environmental conditions.

The wide open petiole canals with wings certainly are consistent with GM, as is the hairy bunch stalk (peduncle). From the photos I've seen, the bent rachis mentioned by Kepler and Rust is a couple of feet below the bunch, so you wouldn't be able to evaluate that trait yet.

It's got to be a AAA genome plant, I just wouldn't bet the house on it being GM, yet. Please post more photos as the rachis grows and the bunch develops.

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Yug

I believe that 'leaf stalk' is not the same as 'petiole'.

venturabananas

If you were talking to a banana scientist in banana scientist jargon, you'd be right, but Kepler and Rust intentionally avoided terms that sound like scientific jargon. For example, they use "trunk" instead of pseudostem. In their book "leaf stalk" = petiole.

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robguz24

Almost 3 months later, a couple more pics. I'm guessing now it's what is called Chinese here. It flowered pretty short, at about 6', and the messy rachis would mean it is not Williams or Gros Michel.

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robguz24

Well I just harvested the fruit form this, and I still have no idea what it is. The oddly kinked rachis is messy below the fruit. That tells me it is not Williams or GM. The plant looks a bit different than pictures of DCs do. I also have pics of the even sadder looking bunch right next to the one I harvested today. The ripe fruit pics are from smaller fruit picked a bit early. They have a different taste than store bought cavendish, and a firmer texture. Better tasting than home grown Williams. This fruited at about 6' (all mine tend to fruit shorter than others report). Any more thoughts as to what this is? Grand Nain, Valery? I'm sure now it is not a GM because it's quite different than the one I harvested a couple months ago and the fruit is inferior. The other thing throwing me on the fruit taste is there is a bit of tanginess which seems odd for a cavendish.













this is the sad little bunch from the same mat.

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venturabananas

Great photos, but I have no idea. Ask Angela Kepler. She's really helpful and would take an interest since you are growing these in Hawaii.

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robguz24

Aside from the first fruit which was eaten a bit green, the tanginess is much less and the cavendish taste more obvious. Based on the taste and it being a cavendish type, which are supposed to be BBTV magnets, I'm almost certainly getting rid of them.

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Gabe15

After those last pics I'd say 'Grand Nain'.

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flaflowerfloozie

OK what is BBTV? For the newbies like me...thank you!

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caliboy1994

It's an incurable viral disease that affects bananas.

http://www2.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/PD-12.pdf

It's not present in the mainland US.

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flaflowerfloozie

OH! OUCH!!!
Guess you really do need to consider where your bananas are coming from!
Didn't know this very informitive! Thanks

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sunfish

or where your sending them

robguz24

And it's part of why, even though I have more real ice cream pups than I know what to do with, I can't ship any to the mainland.

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flaflowerfloozie

Not that I want my nannas to have it or even want to be any where near it, but does it only affect the fruit like citrus cancer or the entire herb?
I can't get that link to open for some reason.
Thanks Patti (FFF)

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robguz24

The entire plant. You basically have to dig up and dispose of everything here if your plants get it. Transmitted by banana aphids.

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