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Old 08-24-2014, 04:13 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Exclamation Re: What root rot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny View Post
A plant needs three things to grow:
Light, water and nutrition.....Don’t get me wrong. I do not suggest, that you submerge the corm or roots of your
plant in water, but as long as you have green leaves and a bottom drain hole, you
will not get root rot in a banana
, no matter how much you water.
I think your second post to this thread poses the most controversy.
Assuming light may also refer to warmth and nutrition cancels out any other problems a banana can acquire and the water is complete (oxygen too) and stress not being a factor it maybe reasonable to entertain your theory.

I must say this water deal may not be totally too bad an idea.
The pup in water I have, has showed nice roots and two lil pup.

I'll state again I separated these at a similar height and size at the same time but, the one on land has almost doubled.


BUT I drilled many extra drain-holes and..

Added a small water pump for oxygenation.

Placed in jar wrapped in fabric to avoid clogging.

This should run on solar or ac for 12 hrs a day.


I don't want to take it out of water to recover sooo
Hope this will fix my problem... All my other plants are booming in the pond= about 3'-4" deepest 2500-2800 gallons. I have raised the banana plant a little higher as you can see.
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:17 PM   #62 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

In your aquaponic banana plants do you need to keep the water flowing to maintain aeration? What growing medium do you use?
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:25 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Smile Re: What root rot?

Keep the water flowing...
Oxygenate as much as possible to avoid fouling of the water.
Photos below are from another thread.
Methods are similar except one uses a medium and the other does not.
Some people use organic medium while others use inorganic (man made) mediums.

Hydroponics for begginers


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Old 08-24-2014, 08:30 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: What root rot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cincinnana View Post
Keep the water flowing...
Untitled
nice work. very good tip.thanks don&judy
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Old 08-24-2014, 10:29 PM   #65 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrd88888 View Post
I think your second post to this thread poses the most controversy.
Assuming light may also refer to warmth and nutrition cancels out any other problems a banana can acquire and the water is complete (oxygen too) and stress not being a factor it maybe reasonable to entertain your theory.
Hi Justin,

I am not sure, what you are trying to say here. Nobody in this forum would suggest
raising bananas in the arctic and the need to protect your plants in all of the warmest
regions of the US in winter has been discussed in hundreds of posts. It has been IMOEO
established, that banana pants can survive with their roots submerged in water for long
periods. I also do no longer doubt, that plants have on occasion suffered root rot while
their roots were submerged in water. What I am trying to figure out is, what makes
the difference. At this time I suspect that it is oxygen supply to the water and ultimately
to the roots. That is, where your experiment can be helpful: If you managed to supply
more oxygen to your pond through some form of aeration, and your plant subsequently
recovers, that would be a strong indicator in support of that theory.

I do not see, where my second post in this thread is unduly "controversial". As a
matter of fact, it fits right in with my need for oxygen theory: As the water drains out
through the bottom holes, it sucks air containing oxygen into the voids left between
the soil particles.


Quote:
I must say this water deal may not be totally too bad an idea.
The pup in water I have, has showed nice roots and two lil pup.


BUT I drilled many extra drain-holes and...
Images deleted for brevity

Quote:
...I don't want to take it out of water to recover sooo
Hope this will fix my problem... All my other plants are booming in the pond= about 3'-4" deepest 2500-2800 gallons. I have raised the banana plant a little higher as you can see.
The other plants appear to be all swamp or aquatic plants with either less need for
oxygen or being better equipped to withdraw it out of the water. My question is:
Does that "little pump" deliver the water back into the pond with some "splash"
to create aeration? A spray disperser would also help.

Thanks for working on this,
Olaf





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Old 08-25-2014, 01:22 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Drummer Re: What root rot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny View Post
Hi Justin,

I am not sure, what you are trying to say here. ......suspect that it is oxygen supply to the water and ultimately to the roots. That is, where your experiment can be helpful: If you managed to supply more oxygen to your pond through some form of aeration, and your plant subsequently
recovers, that would be a strong indicator in support of that theory....

I am only trying to establish that there maybe many contributing factors that present root rot and if the given conditions do not supply the plant with its requirements you cannot pinpoint rot as only one deficiency/toxicity or necessity in general.

I used (for both bananas in and outside the pond)
-1/4 perlite
-1/2 peat moss/inorganic mix and
-1/4 jobes natural/organic potting mix. I not so sure I want pure inorganic but we'll see?

Okay yeah, I'll leave the pump on 24/7 and I've raised the water to "splash into" instead of "trickle" onto the surface level of the potted banana.
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:16 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: What root rot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrd88888 View Post
I am only trying to establish that there maybe many contributing factors that present root rot and if the given conditions do not supply the plant with its requirements you cannot pinpoint rot as only one deficiency/toxicity or necessity in general.

I used (for both bananas in and outside the pond)
-1/4 perlite
-1/2 peat moss/inorganic mix and
-1/4 jobes natural/organic potting mix. I not so sure I want pure inorganic but we'll see?

Okay yeah, I'll leave the pump on 24/7 and I've raised the water to "splash into" instead of "trickle" onto the surface level of the potted banana.
Thanks Justin, Great Info!

Wicking is an easy way to increase oxygen and the naners will grow faster.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:07 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: What root rot?

Here's an update; how she looks now Sept/12/2014
The one planted in soil looks perfect while the pond water one is recovering (not sure how fast but no more dark spots have appeared) 4 pups are growing on this one but aren't more than 1" tall (slow pups) But this makes me speculate the roots are making much head-way/progress? The water flow maybe 1-2 GPM but it's supplying good non-stop splashing that stays draining


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Old 09-12-2014, 01:31 PM   #69 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrd88888 View Post
Here's an update; how she looks now Sept/12/2014
The one planted in soil looks perfect while the pond water one is recovering (not sure how fast but no more dark spots have appeared) 4 pups are growing on this one but aren't more than 1" tall (slow pups) But this makes me speculate the roots are making much head-way/progress? The water flow maybe 1-2 GPM but it's supplying good non-stop splashing that stays draining
Hi Justin,

that is very interesting and if the progress continues, it will strengthen the assertion,
that it is not water per se or over-watering, which causes root rot, but the lack of
oxygen in the water.

Wind sweeps the larger bodies of water, shown in my first post in this thread and
thereby aerates the water sufficiently.

In other words: If you saturate a pot, without drainage at the bottom, with water,
even if there is limited amount of oxygen contained in it, it will be soon depleted
and root rot will likely set in.

However if there are drain holes in the bottom of the pot, the draining water will
suck air (and oxygen) into the voids and thereby keep the roots healthy, even if
the water is replenished frequently. The same goes with your pond. The new
aeration will supply the needed oxygen. Of course full recovery will take some time.
The plant will have to replace the roots, which suffered damage while "suffocating"
and to be visible, the recovery will have to manifest itself in new, healthy growth

Please keep us informed of any further development. Yours is an experiment, which
has the potential to help clear up a lot of questions and presumptions about root rot.

Thank you,
Olaf





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Old 09-12-2014, 07:27 PM   #70 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

my water bananas earlier this june in a pond with no movement of water and in a pot with yard dirt and holes


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Old 09-12-2014, 07:59 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: What root rot?

I assume only foliar fertilizing Vickie? Any fert. in soil? Lots of drain holes???

I concur Olaf,
My biggest dilemma will be around winter, when this water grown banana will be brought inside my GH. I will need to supply much more oxygen to the roots because I would like to keep this specimen aquatic.
In order to supply much more oxygen I will be frequently changing Distilled water as opposed to water from my pond. (reducing algae/build-up on water heater element and a cleaner environment for my basjoos roots).

Of course I'd like to have a diluted addition of Fruit Fuel too.

I would like to install a air stone or some kind of carbon filter in the bottom of the pot to deliver a higher air to water ratio.

My understanding is when the light is reduced and limited and/or the temp. goes down; the roots need more O2 than H2O among few other elements. Is this correct?

While basjoo maybe more hardy than others, this Almost seem like an ill attempt/reckless endeavor...?

I'm looking for tips, hints, or instructions for the best way to go about this?
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:33 PM   #72 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

no folar feeding fish pooping in water. And in basement in a tub with water 3 inches up side of pot no moving water no fertilizer did this since 2007 and had 6 bananas all winter like that
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:31 PM   #73 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

Hi Vicky,

Your pond has a fairly large surface area and is not as choked with water plants as Justin's.
Augmenting this would be a good rainstorm once in a while. Did you get those?

Best,
Olaf

Hi Justin,


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrd88888 View Post

My biggest dilemma will be around winter, when this water grown banana will be brought inside my GH. I will need to supply much more oxygen to the roots because I would like to keep this specimen aquatic.
In order to supply much more oxygen I will be frequently changing Distilled water as opposed to water from my pond. (reducing algae/build-up on water heater element and a cleaner environment for my basjoos roots).

Of course I'd like to have a diluted addition of Fruit Fuel too.

I would like to install a air stone or some kind of carbon filter in the bottom of the pot to deliver a higher air to water ratio.

My understanding is when the light is reduced and limited and/or the temp. goes down; the roots need more O2 than H2O among few other elements. Is this correct?

While basjoo maybe more hardy than others, this Almost seem like an ill attempt/reckless endeavor...?

I'm looking for tips, hints, or instructions for the best way to go about this?
I am speaking here from total lack of experience, but that has never kept me from
spouting off my opinion.

But I would not go through all that trouble to try keeping the plant aquatic throughout
the winter, whatever that entails???. I would rather winter it normally in the greenhouse
as you usually do and rely on "retraining" the plant to an aquatic existence in spring. That
is, if we did not have somebody, who has probably valuable experience, on this forum.
Thus I suggest you ask Vicky how she did it.

Best,
Olaf
PS: After posting this I noticed, that Vicky has enlightened us already as to how she did it






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Old 09-13-2014, 09:31 AM   #74 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

That was my pond in June now there is water bananas water lilies water canna and water hibiscus and lotus so it does have many plants. Due to my mom being in a car wreck in July it has been chaos so I have not taken any more pictures I will look for one from previous yrs.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:46 AM   #75 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

here is another pic from another yr

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Old 09-13-2014, 09:58 AM   #76 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

starting a banana in water in 2008 it is still in water. I did this myself to make a water banana
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:04 AM   #77 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

banana in basement in water one winter when it was smaller. I also keep my water cannas in water all winter in the basement.
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Old 09-13-2014, 12:29 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: What root rot?

Hey Vickie I noticed many of your beautiful pictures in past posts and this seems as simple as frugal lighting and a temp maintained above 50F. I'd would like understand more... Did you leave all lower dead leafs attached until springs and replant them once a year? Fungicide used in water overwintering? I'd like to eliminate stress but the most I can think is to just leave-them-be and let them do their natural thing.

Or upsize pots during a fall transplant? Only organic yard soil!?

Love your photos and plant collection!

How many have you lost with this "root submerged" planting method?

Obviously the more roots=better, so how to encourage?
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Old 09-13-2014, 03:30 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: What root rot?

In addition to my growing questions, how many drain holes? Should/could I cover the pot with holes?
How do the roots look during and after wintering inside?
Did many roots grow through the drain holes?-through side or bottom mostly?
I'm not sure if I want to upgrade or downgrade the pot later on, or just leave it?
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Old 09-13-2014, 03:36 PM   #80 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What root rot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrd88888 View Post
My understanding is when the light is reduced and limited and/or the temp. goes down; the roots need more O2 than H2O among few other elements. Is this correct?
Hi Justin,

if our rather well documented assertions about the requirement of oxygen in the
water are correct, then Vicky's experience appears to indicate, that the opposite is
the case: When the metabolism of the plant slows down, the requirement for oxygen
decreases. However this may not be the case, to the same degree, in a well lit
greenhouse.

Of course it may also be, that, once adapted to low oxygen supply, the plant does
not need as much any more. Unfortunately in our limited settings we tend not to
have enough plants available for experimentation.

I have tried to look up the impact of light/darkness on oxygen use on the web, but
there are no references to roots, just to assimilation and respiration in the leaves
and any statements on those are quite contradictory. Right now I cannot spend
any more time on this.


Best,
Olaf




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