View Full Version : Question for Richard and/or sunfish.
Want Them All
09-10-2009, 05:31 PM
Per instructions on your 28-8-18 fertilizer bag:
Option A: For constant feeding: 2 teaspoons per gallon of water
Option B: 1 tree in ground: 1/3 lb (3/4 cup)/ month from Feb-Nov
Pretty much all my fruit trees are in ground. During the summer I water them twice a week (8 times a month).
If I use Option B, do I divide the 3/4 cup into 8 portions, then mix each portion with, say, a gallon of water, pour that gallon around the tree, then just add more water with the garden hose until the tree is thoroughly watered? In my case, "thoroughly watered" means 1" of water accumulation.
Regarding Option A, I'm not sure what "constant feeding" mean. I don't know how many gallons each of my tree gets per watering session, I just let the garden hose drip at the base of the tree until about 1" of water piles up, then move on to the next tree. So I don't see how I can dilute 2 teaspoons per gallon when I water them.
Thanks,
sunfish
09-10-2009, 06:56 PM
I'll let Richard answer that one.
Richard
09-10-2009, 07:14 PM
Note that
Option B: 1 tree in ground: 1/3 lb (3/4 cup)/ month from Feb-Nov
is a maximum rate.
You could indulge in the extra labor of fertilizing every watering, but it is just fine to apply once per month. I don't know how many trees you have, but consider putting the dose for 1 tree in a 5 gallon bucket, filling it with water, and then pour that around the tree.
The constant feeding dosage is for folks with a fertilizer injector. It siphons concentrate from a 5 to 100 gallon or more tank and feeds the tree a very dillute amount every watering. Siphon mixers are also available for garden hoses. Here's the set up I have at my small nursery for the 4 different formulas that I use:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=22750&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22750)
Want Them All
09-10-2009, 07:54 PM
OK I see. I'll drop in 10 teaspoons into a 5-gallon bucket, fill it up, pour that per tree, twice a week. With the size of the bag, it'll last me forever.
Thanks,
Richard
09-14-2009, 06:08 PM
OK I see. I'll drop in 10 teaspoons into a 5-gallon bucket, fill it up, pour that per tree, twice a week. With the size of the bag, it'll last me forever.
Thanks,
Looking at the size of your plants (in another thread), I'm concerned that 5 gallons of water twice per week is too much for those banana plants. But maybe your soil is extra porous? Check to make sure the soil underground around the corm is not staying soggy.
Want Them All
09-14-2009, 10:27 PM
You're correct, I mistyped. I meant once a week. I just watered all my plants 2 days ago, then placed some compost/mulch on top. I'll wait a week and keep checking soil moisture level. I have a gauge with 2 prongs (frome Home Depot) that I use. I inserted the prongs as deep down as I can, usually can get to 7"-9", if it's on the dry side I water. My soil is rocky clay. I've noticed that since I've moved into this house 3 years ago, many of the soils around my plants have gotten softer. Probably due to watering, mulching, and soils breaking up naturally. At first, it was real difficult digging the planting holes.
Richard
09-14-2009, 10:38 PM
You're correct, I mistyped. I meant once a week. I just watered all my plants 2 days ago, then placed some compost/mulch on top. I'll wait a week and keep checking soil moisture level. I have a gauge with 2 prongs (frome Home Depot) that I use. I inserted the prongs as deep down as I can, usually can get to 7"-9", if it's on the dry side I water. My soil is rocky clay. I've noticed that since I've moved into this house 3 years ago, many of the soils around my plants have gotten softer. Probably due to watering, mulching, and soils breaking up naturally. At first, it was real difficult digging the planting holes.
This is the benefit of mulching. Complex carbon acids are leached out with watering and percolate downward. They interact with the clay and slowly cause it to disassociate. The process can be speed up by applying humic and/or fulvic acid before mulching. These are simply concentrate forms of carbon acid complexes.
The common retail moisture meters can give you false readings in clay or partially clay soils. Basically, the clay will cause a reading of "wet" until the clay is completely dry. Otherwise, the meters work well in commercial potting soils.
Want Them All
09-15-2009, 12:38 PM
This is the benefit of mulching. Complex carbon acids are leached out with watering and percolate downward. They interact with the clay and slowly cause it to disassociate. The process can be speed up by applying humic and/or fulvic acid before mulching. These are simply concentrate forms of carbon acid complexes.
The common retail moisture meters can give you false readings in clay or partially clay soils. Basically, the clay will cause a reading of "wet" until the clay is completely dry. Otherwise, the meters work well in commercial potting soils.
Where can I get humic or fulvic acid? Will applying these "burn" the existing plants? If the moisture gauge give false reading in clay soil, what can one do to get accurate reading, aside from actually diging up the clay soil to see it directly (that would be too laborious with all the trees I have ).
Thanks,
Richard
09-15-2009, 01:37 PM
Where can I get humic or fulvic acid? Will applying these "burn" the existing plants?
You can obtain it locally from agricultural supply distributors or pay extra for shipping online. (On my site it is Soil Builder 2-1-1 (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/products/soil_undernourished.html)). It is applied to the soil, usually underneath the mulch layer. Typical application rates are 1/4 tsp to 1 tbsp per gallon. At that rate, it does not burn. It should not be applied within a week of other fertilizers (esp. solid granulars) because they will interact to make tar!
If the moisture gauge give false reading in clay soil, what can one do to get accurate reading, aside from actually diging up the clay soil to see it directly (that would be too laborious with all the trees I have ).
If the plant leaves start to yellow uniformly -- perhaps with brown edges, then the soil is too dry. If the leaves are green but with brown edges, it is likely overdose of fertilizer or some contaminant like herbicide or fluoridated city water. If the leaves begin to yellow but the major veins are green, then it is too much water. All of this is a matter of experience for you. If you are really concerned, take a pointed shovel and drive it straight down about 30 inches from a young plant or 3-4 feet from an established plant. Don't dig up the soil, just tilt the shovel a bit so you have an inch-wide opening to peer down into.
Want Them All
10-04-2009, 06:07 PM
You can obtain it locally from agricultural supply distributors or pay extra for shipping online. (On my site it is Soil Builder 2-1-1 (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/products/soil_undernourished.html)). It is applied to the soil, usually underneath the mulch layer. Typical application rates are 1/4 tsp to 1 tbsp per gallon. At that rate, it does not burn. It should not be applied within a week of other fertilizers (esp. solid granulars) because they will interact to make tar!
If the plant leaves start to yellow uniformly -- perhaps with brown edges, then the soil is too dry. If the leaves are green but with brown edges, it is likely overdose of fertilizer or some contaminant like herbicide or fluoridated city water. If the leaves begin to yellow but the major veins are green, then it is too much water. All of this is a matter of experience for you. If you are really concerned, take a pointed shovel and drive it straight down about 30 inches from a young plant or 3-4 feet from an established plant. Don't dig up the soil, just tilt the shovel a bit so you have an inch-wide opening to peer down into.
Richard,
Any guesses to these mulberry leaves? They were uniformly green when planted, over 2 months ago. Thanks,
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=24351&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24351&ppuser=5976)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=24350&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24350&ppuser=5976)
Richard
10-04-2009, 06:11 PM
Richard,
Any guesses to these mulberry leaves? They were uniformly green when planted, over 2 months ago. Thanks,
When do mulberries normally drop their leaves in your area?
Want Them All
10-04-2009, 06:34 PM
Good question, I don't know. I'll find out.
Want Them All
10-04-2009, 06:41 PM
What do I need to set up a fertigation system like you have pictured? I only need 2 reservoirs, as I'm only using 2 formulations of your fertilizers.
Thanks,
Taylor
10-04-2009, 06:43 PM
New leaves on our Scuppernong grape vine look very similar to that Mulberry leaf, but not on the other plant. I'll try to take a picture soon. Any good solution?
Richard
10-04-2009, 09:08 PM
What do I need to set up a fertigation system like you have pictured? I only need 2 reservoirs, as I'm only using 2 formulations of your fertilizers.
Thanks,
The picture from my plant shelter shows 5 gallon buckets, with 1/4 inch holes cut in the lids (for my orchard, I use a much larger tank). The fertilizer dosage is about 1/2 cup each time you fill the buckets -- put it an after the water to keep superconcentrate from being sucked into the injectors. In addition to fertilizer I use 1 drop (no more) of algaecide each time I fill the buckets. The siphon injectors are here: http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/products/tools_siphon.html
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=22750&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22750)
Richard
10-04-2009, 11:04 PM
Richard,
Any guesses to these mulberry leaves? They were uniformly green when planted, over 2 months ago.
Feed them Sul-Po-Mag (also called K-Mag). Dosages for 1-time fall feeding: 1 cup per 6 foot high x 6 foot wide tree, 1/2 cup for tree or bush half that size, etc. Put the mineral where irrigation water will hit it near roots, not the trunk. You can probably find it in an Ag supply store or independent nursery, if not it is here: http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/products/fertilizer_potassium.html
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=24351&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24351&ppuser=5976)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=24350&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24350&ppuser=5976)
Want Them All
10-07-2009, 01:53 PM
The picture from my plant shelter shows 5 gallon buckets, with 1/4 inch holes cut in the lids (for my orchard, I use a much larger tank). The fertilizer dosage is about 1/2 cup each time you fill the buckets -- put it an after the water to keep superconcentrate from being sucked into the injectors. In addition to fertilizer I use 1 drop (no more) of algaecide each time I fill the buckets. The siphon injectors are here: http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/products/tools_siphon.html
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=22750&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22750)
I have about 30+ trees to water. What container size do you recommend? The 5-gallon buckets would need too frequent refilling.
Thanks,
Richard
10-07-2009, 02:23 PM
Start by determining your monthly irrigation water usage. For example, you can measure the amount you water one tree, then multiply, etc.
Let's suppose your monthly summer usage is 20 gallons/tree/week x 4 weeks/month x 35 trees = 2800 gallons/month:
The siphon mixer pictured below has a fixed injection ratio of 1:16, so you would need a 2800 / 16 = 175 gallon tank. The Dosatron (http://www.dosatronusa.com) and Dema (http://www.demaeng.com) injectors can be set to a finer rate of 1:100 or 1:200 so you can drop to a 30 or 15 gallon tank of concentrate. Note that a smaller tank means higher concentration so the tank material must be able to handle a pH of 4.5 to 5. Stay away from the EZ-Flo systems because they are non-proportional.
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