View Full Version : Indoor bananas 600W HPS, hydroponic media
fergus banana
07-26-2009, 02:12 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19888&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19888)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19891&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19891&ppuser=5217)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19890&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19890&ppuser=5217)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19887&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19887&ppuser=5217)
Ohio'sBest
07-26-2009, 03:03 PM
Nice job. Are you having a problem keeping the humidity high enough?
fergus banana
07-26-2009, 03:15 PM
right now, i dont really do anything for humidity. i spray them occasionally with a water bottle. i was thinking about getting a humidifier, but i kind of forgot about it. I dont really know how much humidity would play a role in their growth. any info would be helpful.
i am really trying to get a good feed schedule down for them. i was giving nutes every other day, but i think it was too much cause they started to get nutrient burn. they are growing very fast.
these pics represent about 2.5 months of growth under the HPS light. they couldn't have been more than a foot tall when i started them. i do have pics from before dated june 26th. i think.
Worm_Farmer
07-26-2009, 04:24 PM
I wonder if you can overlight Bananas? What would be considered too much light for a banana? Does it even matter if it has too much light as long as you keep the air cool?
I want to try a Nutramist so bad, I have seen such good results with them.
fergus banana
07-26-2009, 04:31 PM
i have them 16hrs on and 8 hrs off. i think the most light you would want to give is 18hrs. i guess you could give more, but i dont know how the plant would react. a good rule of thumb is 14-18 hrs.
fergus banana
07-26-2009, 04:34 PM
i just read about the nutramist. that is an aeroponic system. i am sure it would work great. i dont have any experience with it, but it would be really fun to try.
momoese
07-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Very cool!
Worm_Farmer
07-26-2009, 04:59 PM
Nutramist Ultrasonic Foggers For Hydroponics, Horticulture, Propagation, Foliar Feeding, Greenhouse And Grow Room Humidification And Pesticide Application (http://nutramist.com/humid.html)
You can use the nutramist as a fogger, there is a way to hook it up to a humidistat and it will turn on and off as needed. I was thinking that Nurtamist for humid would be cool, because in FL the air is already humid, I could feed the nurtamist with a water / kelp mix and the plants would be all boost all the time.
I was thinking watts of light, not hours. On young plants I like to run 24/7 for 30days then switch to 18/6 till I think they are nice and big and have good roots, when switch to 12/12. Once they start growing fast move them outside. Your running a 600watt, would 600watt to be much for one plant? Would 1,200 watt be the limit for banana? I am running two 8 4' T5 fluorescent. I was told that each 4x4' fixture is equal to about 450watt HPS.
fergus banana
07-26-2009, 05:17 PM
Nutramist Ultrasonic Foggers For Hydroponics, Horticulture, Propagation, Foliar Feeding, Greenhouse And Grow Room Humidification And Pesticide Application (http://nutramist.com/humid.html)
You can use the nutramist as a fogger, there is a way to hook it up to a humidistat and it will turn on and off as needed. I was thinking that Nurtamist for humid would be cool, because in FL the air is already humid, I could feed the nurtamist with a water / kelp mix and the plants would be all boost all the time.
I was thinking watts of light, not hours. On young plants I like to run 24/7 for 30days then switch to 18/6 till I think they are nice and big and have good roots, when switch to 12/12. Once they start growing fast move them outside. Your running a 600watt, would 600watt to be much for one plant? Would 1,200 watt be the limit for banana? I am running two 8 4' T5 fluorescent. I was told that each 4x4' fixture is equal to about 450watt HPS.
I think you could use 600W for one plant, but you could probably go lower to like a 400W. I dont know about the limit on wattage - 1200 should be more than enough, but probably overkill for one plant.
I stick to HPS cause I get great growth and I know lots of other people who use HPS. 600W has the best lumen to watt ratio and its inexpensive to run.
I will be growing these bananas entirely indoors. i dont know how well thats gonna work out, but i have no where else to put them.
Nutramist is pretty kewl. you can check out other hydroponic suppliers cause there are different kinds of aeroponic setups. I like Grow Lights, Advanced Nutrients, Hydroponic Supplies and more at Hydroempire (http://www.hydroempire.com)
they got good prices and a good selection.
Richard
07-26-2009, 05:26 PM
Net 400W per square meter is about right for the size plants shown in the photos.
Worm_Farmer
07-26-2009, 05:56 PM
For Lumens my figured claim to put out 20,000 lumens! Pre fixture, I have two fixture's so I am putting about 40,000 lumens right now. Each fixture is 1.94a, so I am only using 3.88 amps. There are higher out put bulbs available now, so I will switch up once these ones are spent. I am going to bring one of my pups inside and put it under these lights and see how well it does.
P.S. Richard, I love you man!
Ohio'sBest
07-26-2009, 06:34 PM
It is good to keep the humidity as high as possible. This way the plant doesn't have to fight to keep itself hydrated. I try to keep mine above 70%.
A 1,000 watt will be sufficient per every 112 square feet or 2-600 watt lights for every 135 square feet. Light movers will increase the area covered.
fergus banana
07-26-2009, 07:40 PM
i totally disregarded humidity, but sounds like it will make a hell of a difference.
peace
fergus banana
07-26-2009, 07:41 PM
For Lumens my figured claim to put out 20,000 lumens! Pre fixture, I have two fixture's so I am putting about 40,000 lumens right now. Each fixture is 1.94a, so I am only using 3.88 amps. There are higher out put bulbs available now, so I will switch up once these ones are spent. I am going to bring one of my pups inside and put it under these lights and see how well it does.
P.S. Richard, I love you man!
look into HPS or metal halide. the hps 600W puts out 90,000 lumens.
word.
Richard
07-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Watts refers to the entire spectrum of light delivered -- at some efficiency.
A 600W HPS is typically 90% efficient, so you are getting about 540 Watts (Joules of energy per second) total output at the immediate outside surface of the lamp. At one meter (a little over a yard) from the lamp in a humid atmosphere, you can expect another 10% to 15% diffuse loss in parts of the spectrum. If there is a wall (or floor) 1 meter away from the lamp, then the total energy per second being delivered to the illuminated surface is about 390 Watts. If that area is 4 square meters (a square a bit wider than 2 yards by 2 yards) then on average each of the 1 x 1 square meters is receiving about 100 Watts. This is what I was referring to as net watts.
Lumens on the other hand is normalized to human perception and tied to specific wavelengths of light. 1 lumen in the green wavelength (555 nm) does not equal 1 lumen in the blue wavelength (e.g., 480 nm). Lumen ratings on light bulbs are calculated by one or another standard of measurement -- the best of which is an equivalent energy standard. To make it more confusing, sometimes the Lumen rating (e.g., consumer light bulbs) is at the immediate outer surface of the lamp, while ratings on instrumentation that say "nominally 4000 lumens" often mean 4000 lumens per square meter at 1 meter distance from the source.
The often cited conversion of Watts to Lumens is only valid at 555 nm, that is 1 Watt @ 555 nm = 680 Lumens @ 555 nm. So for example, a green light source of 400 Watts output will have a consumer rating of 272000 lumens. The 90,000 lumens quoted below refers to only the green wavelengths of the HPS lamp.
To simplify all of this, I find it much easier to first identify light sources with the desired spectrum, and then examine what it will take to obtain the desired Watts per square meter. A good rule of thumb is that if the objects (plants) are about 1 meter from the source, then I'm looking for a Wattage per square meter which is 25% larger than my needs.
Ohio'sBest
07-26-2009, 11:46 PM
Richard, are you running the bulb vertically or horizontally? HIDs are most efficient when run vertically. Run the bulb beside the plant with no reflector. A reflector will just hold in the heat. Here is a few charts for you Fergus.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19910&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19910&ppuser=5663)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19909&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19909&ppuser=5663)
Richard
07-27-2009, 12:08 AM
Chris,
The lumens in the diagram are only for light at 555 nm, not the entire spectrum of output. Output wattage on the other hand, is calculated by integrating across the entire spectrum of useful output excluding raw heat, typically 400 nm to 1300 nm. The needs (and capacities) of plants are usually published in watts per meter or watts per surface area of leaf (small scale studies).
The lights I am currently working with are in 20,000 sq.ft. and 50,000 sq.ft. plant shelters, although I have worked with small systems of 150 sq.ft. enclosures. The present client has the benefit of geo-thermal and water on the property, so that water and electricity come at a very small annual maintenance cost.
Ohio'sBest
07-27-2009, 12:16 AM
The next project I'll be working on will be roughly 96,000 square feet with skylights. Those will help. Will be a combo NFT/DWC system.
Richard
07-27-2009, 12:24 AM
The next project I'll be working on will be roughly 96,000 square feet with skylights. Those will help. Will be a combo NFT/DWC system.
What will they be growing?
Bananaman88
07-27-2009, 06:15 AM
The next project I'll be working on will be roughly 96,000 square feet with skylights. Those will help. Will be a combo NFT/DWC system.
Chris,
I'll be following along with great interest. :lurk: My wife is a plant researcher (currently working with rice) and they grow some rice in the greenhouse and use a lot of supplemental lighting during the winter. I'll ask her what the wattage is on the lights they use just to see if any of the info would be useful to you.
Brent
fergus banana
07-27-2009, 07:52 AM
thats a very nice chart ohiosbest. very kewl
peace
fergus banana
07-27-2009, 08:03 AM
chris,
i am running my bulb horizontally. i have a grip of plants that are getting the light, but i am really only concerned about 4 bananas getting the most out of the light. would 1 600W bulb run vertically provide better lighting for my plants than my current horizontal light setup?
There are light movers usually in 6 ft sections that willl move the fixture 6' every 20 minutes increasing your growing area. This has worked well for me.
Richard
07-27-2009, 05:18 PM
Bob,
All the rail systems I've seen are more expensive than additional lamp(s), and at the same time deliver less light. This might be due to local prices. What kind of mover do you have?
Ohio'sBest
07-27-2009, 06:48 PM
chris,
i am running my bulb horizontally. i have a grip of plants that are getting the light, but i am really only concerned about 4 bananas getting the most out of the light. would 1 600W bulb run vertically provide better lighting for my plants than my current horizontal light setup?
This is a diagram from an old friend. I have edited anything that might offend the Mods here.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19923 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19910&ppuser=5663)
fergus banana
07-27-2009, 08:11 PM
thanks dude!
i will give it a try.
peace
Ohio'sBest
07-28-2009, 03:59 PM
What will they be growing?
Lettuce
51st state
07-28-2009, 06:20 PM
I guess the technology already applied to other 'specialist' genera will equally well apply to musacea :ha:
expect a call from 5 O wanting to know why your electric bill is so high :ha:
'Steve McGarratt knows, you know'
fergus banana
07-28-2009, 06:23 PM
yeah, those "other" specialists know their stuff!
;/
my power bill is only up 40 bucks running the 600 watter at 16 hrs.
peace and grow on!
Richard
07-29-2009, 01:05 AM
What will they be growing?
Lettuce
What is the target spectra and luminous power per square area?
sandy0225
07-29-2009, 06:19 AM
I have a 9 foot light rail brand mover, it was a factory refurb--and a 1000w mh fixture with a reflector, since it's wide open in the basement, the heat buildup is no problem. Since it's an unfinished basement, we just set up tiers of benches using blocks and 2x4's. I'm not having real issues with humidity since my plants are soil potted and we can just water them down there with the hose and fertilizer injector. I am liking the results really well. We can cover 8x20 with the one light (8wx20 long) putting plants that like less light to each end, bananas in the middle.
I don't know all the math and lumens and all that crap, but it works good!It's running my electric about $35 a month since they recently raised the rates.
Bananaman88
07-29-2009, 06:46 AM
II don't know all the math and lumens and all that crap, but it works good!
:ha: I love that part of your quote!
fergus banana
07-29-2009, 07:33 AM
1000W MH at 35 bucks a month? That is really cheap.
yeah, experience is the key to growing. all the technical details are just details once you got ur growin system and conditions down. the proof is in the growth.
peace and grow on
Ohio'sBest
07-29-2009, 08:05 AM
Some utility companies offer less a kwh on off peak hours. Take advantage of them.
Richard
07-29-2009, 08:17 AM
yeah, experience is the key to growing. all the technical details are just details once you got ur growin system and conditions down. the proof is in the growth.
In my experience, it pays to do some research. There are a number of published papers and a few thesis' on optimal growth conditions for lettuces and other greens. You will find the details ... illuminating!
fergus banana
07-29-2009, 08:50 AM
yeah, a little research does indeed help.
Illuminating...thats kewl!
Richard
07-29-2009, 10:04 AM
There is a common saying among geologists that "a few summers' worth of field studies can save you a few hours of research in the library".
:lurk:
Ohio'sBest
08-01-2009, 12:16 PM
I have a 9 foot light rail brand mover, it was a factory refurb--and a 1000w mh fixture with a reflector, since it's wide open in the basement, the heat buildup is no problem. Since it's an unfinished basement, we just set up tiers of benches using blocks and 2x4's. I'm not having real issues with humidity since my plants are soil potted and we can just water them down there with the hose and fertilizer injector. I am liking the results really well. We can cover 8x20 with the one light (8wx20 long) putting plants that like less light to each end, bananas in the middle.
I don't know all the math and lumens and all that crap, but it works good!It's running my electric about $35 a month since they recently raised the rates.
Sounds great Sandy. Why fix it if its not broken. I go by one simple rule.........KISS
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
You can run your humidity high, I run about 75%. If you start to get any mold issues, you can use a sulphur burner.
Richard
08-01-2009, 12:30 PM
I go by one simple rule.........KISS
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
LOL !
51st state
08-01-2009, 05:55 PM
You can run your humidity high, I run about 75%. If you start to get any mold issues, you can use a sulphur burner.
How are you controlling your humidity? I have a honeywell humidistat I bought but never got around to using, I was going to link it to my misting system via a solenoid valve, unless you have a simpler/better idea?
Ohio'sBest
08-01-2009, 06:30 PM
How are you controlling your humidity? I have a honeywell humidistat I bought but never got around to using, I was going to link it to my misting system via a solenoid valve, unless you have a simpler/better idea?
With a humidistat I bought from Home Depot hooked to an exhaust fan. I think it was around $28.
Some humidifiers have a setting to control it. It is good to have both, especially the orange one I got. It has an activator for temp and humidity.
brandylorton
05-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Thanks Richard you have given nice information regarding the 600w hps. I never new few of the facts you just mentioned here.It is going to help a lot of people just like me who are new to this kind of indoor growing.
the most overlooked factor in the use of artificial light is DISTANCE
Be sure to understand how distance effects light intensity or you might be wasting your time, or at least wasting most of your light.
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