View Full Version : Colocasia/Alocasia
LilRaverBoi
07-19-2009, 02:41 AM
Okay, so I have to ask (cause you all seem to know this stuff!)....what's the difference between colocasias and alocasias??? I bought an elephant ear that was a colocasia, yet saw plants at the Missouri Botanical Gardens labeled as 'elephant ear alocasia' again and again. I'm just wondering what the difference is! Can anyone dispel my ignorance on this issue please!?!?!?
G'morning, RaverBoi :).
Toxicity. Each a genus of the family Araceae, while there are 70 species of Alocasia found in Asia, Oceania, & South America, there are only 6 or 8 species of genus Colocasia. The Colocasia are shallow, herbaceous perennials native to Polynesia & Southeastern Asia. While both derive from a rhizome or tuber and appear very similar, reasons for cultivation differ dramatically.
:) Colocasia
The tubers, & even leaves, are considered a delicacy in European & Indian recipees which are quite diverse & numerous. They are perfectly safe & cultivated as a food source.
:) Alocasia
The stem (or corm) contains raphid crystals of oxalic acid which can numb and swell the tongue & pharynx. While edible, they are not considered a delicacy and require long duration boiling to remove the toxins. Other symptoms of improper ingestion include pain and hallucinations.
Another South American plant, notorious for causing oral swelling, is Dieffenbachia - also of family Araceae (an Aroid). Used in the distillation of Curare - while notably for acts of defense & aggression - the various forms of Curare are also useful in hunting game for food.
Lorax (living in Ecuador) is very well versed in both Aroids & that style of hunting.
Hope this helps :).
Mark Hall
07-19-2009, 05:41 AM
Its usually an easy way to tell the difference. Colocasia leaves usually hang down where as most Alocasia leaves point up.. Thats what I try to go by
Occasionally you get some plants that just hang almost level:ha:
I find growing colocasias quite wet helps give you bigger plants. Alocasias dont like the wet too much and they prefer a more free draining open compost for me.
conejov
07-19-2009, 11:17 AM
Its usually an easy way to tell the difference. Colocasia leaves usually hang down where as most Alocasia leaves point up.. Thats what I try to go by
Occasionally you get some plants that just hang almost level:ha:
I find growing colocasias quite wet helps give you bigger plants. Alocasias dont like the wet too much and they prefer a more free draining open compost for me.
You know I always wandered about that Thanks for the tip.
lorax
07-19-2009, 11:21 AM
Colocasia are also normally much larger leaves than Alocasia, and there are fewer interesting colour variations in Colocasia. However, Mark's method of telling them apart becomes difficult when you're faced with the Xanthosoma-type Colocasias, which have non-flexed leaves.
A slightly easier way to tell from the leaves is by their structure. Colocasia tend to have well-defined anterior lobes, although the sinus (where the petiole and the leaf meet) is normally found below a fused portion of the anterior lobes. The petiole (leaf stalk) is normally of equal length to the leaf blade. The leaves of Colocasia also tend to be a great deal larger than those of Alocasia, especially given the cultivars that are normally available as "elephant ears" (a term which I despise, BTW.) Also, with the exception of Colocasia 'Illustris' which is purple, most commonly available plants have green leaves with a VELVET texture, while Alocasia tend to be WAXY and come in a wider array of variegations, often with well defined ribs on the leaves (see Alocasia 'Amazonica' for a good example of this.)
However, the easiest way to tell is to look at the tubers. Colocasia have large, swollen, banded tubers with easily visible "eyes" at either end. Alocasia tubers tend to be thinner, longer, and without the visible "eyes."
Colocasia (Taro) Tubers
http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/old/sungree/sungree$524967.jpg
Alocasia Tubers (Macrorrhizhos, botanical illustration)
http://www.conservatoryofflowers.org/whatsnew/images/edible01.jpg
LilRaverBoi
07-19-2009, 12:16 PM
Other symptoms of improper ingestion include pain and hallucinations.
Hmmmm.....hallucinations you say? *gnaws on alocacia plant* Woah....groovy! :2182: :2787: :nanerwizard: :ukkibannana: :discocrazed: :2140:
:2182::2182::2182::2182:
Woah....you weren't kidding! LOL....j/k j/k. :ha:
Thanks for all the great information, everyone! I think I got better responses than I was expecting even. You guys/girls ROCK! If anyone else has anything else...please share! I love learning. But thanks again to everyone who has posted already!
lorax
07-19-2009, 12:23 PM
To elaborate a little bit on what I was saying earlier, and hopefully make myself a bit clearer:
Colocasia: Petiole about the same length as the leaves or shorter, defined posterior lobes with small fusion towards the sinus, leaf shape more oblate (rounder), petioles are normally coloured (rather than the leaves) and quite stocky, velvet leaf surface, round tubers. Leaf blades often very very large. Leaves normally reflexed (point down), although some species are erect.
C. esculenta
http://www.worldgardenplants.com/images/Colocasia%20esculenta%202.jpg
Alocasia: Petioles normally longer than leaf blades, well-defined posterior lobes with small fusion towards the sinus, leaf shape more saggitate (arrow shaped), petioles normally green or purple and quite delicate, highly coloured leaves, waxy leaf surface, long tubers. Alocasias are often smaller leaves. Leaves normally reflexed (point down), although some species are erect.
Alocasia 'Amazonica'
http://www.flowers.org.uk/public/popups/newplant_images/alocasia_amazonica.jpg
Ready for the exceptions?
Alocasia odora (and A. macrorrhiza, a very similar species) bears HUGE erect leaves with a somewhat velvety-leathery texture, which superficially resembles Colocasias.
http://www.easytropicals.com/pp/Unusual_Aroids/images/alocasia_odoramid.jpg
Colocasia gigantea is also HUGE erect leaves with a somewhat velvety-leathery texture. The only visual difference between it and A. odora, without digging it up to look at the bulbs, is that there is more fusion of the posterior lobes.
http://www.centralfloridafarms.com/colocasia/c-giga01-c.jpg
And if you want a real mindbender, Xanthosoma saggitafolium - which is also referred to as an Elephant Ear, is sometimes sold in garden centers, is an edible, but is neither Colocasia nor Alocasia. This has huge reflexed saggitate leaves with a velvety-leathery texture, petioles longer than the leaves and much thicker than those of Alocasia or Colocasia. This is another edible Aroid, native to Ecuador. Xanthosoma are superficially very similar to Colocasia, with the giveaway being a more elongated and much larger tuber, the more leathery texture of the leaves, and the lack of fusion in the posterior lobes of the leaf. The one in the photo, which is a wild specimen, had a leaf blade in excess of 5' from the tip of the posterior lobes to the point of the leaf.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/HabloPorArboles/Xantho2.jpg
And of course, since we're dealing with members of the Aracea, the bottom line is that all species are VERY variable - so all these handy little guidelines only apply to a portion of the plants of any given species. There are Colocasias with waxy leaves, and Alocasias with a high degree of posterior-lobe fusion, and Xanthosomas may have fine petioles. I can only ID them on sight because I've been doing it for a long time, and even now I still make mistaken IDs and have to check the tubers - I grow examples of all three genera, and forage Xanthosoma and escapee Colocasia in the forests, and I still get them mixed up sometimes. Best of luck!
lorax
07-19-2009, 12:34 PM
Oh, and I'm gonna go on a bit of a screed here, because I HATE the term "elephant ear" to describe the big-leaf Aroids.
First of all, the only Elephant Ears I'm aware of belong to the genera Loxodonta and Elephas. I understand the common term to mean "honking big leaves" but at the same time, since "EE" covers: Alocasia, Colocasia, Xanthosoma, Philodendron, Anthurium, and Monstera (phew, got that? Six really large and diverse genera!) it's, shall we say, somewhat less than adequately descriptive of the plants in question.
Argh.
Thank you for putting up with that, it's something that bugs me.
LilRaverBoi
07-19-2009, 12:45 PM
LOL...yeah, so even before the last post, I was getting the idea that the term 'elephant ears' is pretty worthless.
Thanks for the info, Beth! I have a pretty good idea what I'm looking for now. I'll have to try my hand at correct identification next time I'm at the Botanical Gardens!
lorax
07-19-2009, 12:50 PM
Well, shoot, you have easy access to the MOBOT, which is where many of the leading Aroid botanists are. I'm surprised there are tags there saying "elephant ears" given that I know Dr. Croat (one of the world's leading experts on Philodendron and Anthurium) also hates the term. They have some pretty amazing collections of plants from my neck of the woods...
D_&_T
07-19-2009, 01:00 PM
OK thanks Beth, :goteam:now throw a twist at you were do Caladium fit in
or are they something totaly different?:0519:
Sorry to make this confusing!:lurk:
Hmmmm.....hallucinations you say? *gnaws on alocacia plant* Woah....groovy! :2182: :2787: :nanerwizard: :ukkibannana: :discocrazed: :2140:
:2182::2182::2182::2182:
Woah....you weren't kidding! LOL....j/k j/k. :ha:
Luv it, Luv it, Luv it, Luv it, Luv it :) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lorax
07-19-2009, 01:50 PM
D&T, Caladium are part of the same tribe as Colocasia, Alocasia, and Xanthosoma.
These are smaller plants with only one or two leaves visible at any one time (up to 5 on newer cultivars, but never that many in the wild), a rhizome more like bananas, and much more variety in the colour their leaves, which are always velvety. Caladium, like Xanthosoma, are native to the New World (ie my neck of the woods), whereas Colocasia and Alocasia are Old World plants. The petioles are often very delicate (in the case of C. clavatum, so much so that they sometimes don't support the leaves) and the leaves are edible when steamed, much like Spinach but with a better flavour. Caladium leaves normally exhibit more posterior-lobe fusion than the other three genera, and they're also (with the exception of C. clavatum) a great deal smaller than the leaves of Colocasia and Xanthosoma.
Here are the two variations of Caladium steudnerifolium, which is Ecuadorean; scientists studying it have found that the variegation is a response to insect predation.
Solid Form
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/HabloPorArboles/Caladium1.jpg
Variegated Form
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/HabloPorArboles/CaladiumSternifolium.jpg
The more common "garden" Caladiums are normally cultivars of C. bicolor which have been bred specifically for their high red-variegation.
http://www.naturehills.com/images/productimages/caladium_completecollection_big.jpg
niblicksrus
07-19-2009, 02:36 PM
While the general consensus seems to be that the leaves of alocasia are smaller than that colocasia it must be rembered that Alocasia Robusta has the largest undivided leaf of any plant with Alocasia Borneo Giant a close second.
Rick
Mark Hall
07-19-2009, 02:56 PM
I always thought it the other wat around. Alocasia have the bigger leaves. Colo Gigantia is a biggun , but the alocasias out number the colos for size.
A good site to check is IAS
International Aroid Society (http://www.aroid.org/)
Pretty all you want to know will be on there:waving:
LilRaverBoi
07-19-2009, 02:59 PM
Well, shoot, you have easy access to the MOBOT, which is where many of the leading Aroid botanists are. I'm surprised there are tags there saying "elephant ears" given that I know Dr. Croat (one of the world's leading experts on Philodendron and Anthurium) also hates the term. They have some pretty amazing collections of plants from my neck of the woods...
Well, most all of the labels had a 'common name' first, then specified the genus/species below. So they would be labeled as 'Elephant ear' Alocasia _______. I think it was more for the majority of the community than the huge plant nerds that know more about em. Most people prefer to read common names than a bunch of Latin they can hardly pronounce. There were a lot of very nice examples to enjoy, though! I spent like 4 hours there wandering around...there's so much to see! I was like a giddy kid in a candy store with a $50 bill!
lorax
07-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Mark, I'm a member of the IAS, lol! What I gave were my guidelines for ID, of course, with the caveat that I'm often wrong, but in terms of what's available to these folks in the garden centers what I've said holds.
Ya know, considering some the incredible journeys she's made - not to mention discoveries - I think Lorax is being just a bit modest, here :lurk: ....?
Okay, okay.... :nanerwizard: .... I'm gone!
So my Alocasia x Calidora, aka "Persian Palm", as well as Colocasia Gigantea are Elephant Ears but not really.:ha:
So my Alocasia x Calidora, aka "Persian Palm", as well as Colocasia Gigantea are Elephant Ears but not really.:ha:
Well, Jeeps Bob, the Alocasia Might have been an Elephant Ear if it had come from a bulb shown in post-5:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19698
If it did Not come from that bulb, it's probably an Alligator, instead.
However, your Colocasia is Definitely... somewhere in the :ha: Twilight Zone !!
Okay :), Please disregard as this post is now outdated & the sign has disappeared...
saltydad
07-25-2009, 06:00 PM
Slight thread derail here:
I have wintered my colocasia/alocasia plants by protection in the ground (unsuccessful), and potting them up and bringing inside (mostly successful, although I lost a Nancy's Rrevenge and a Black Magic this past season). This fall I will not be potting them; I want to store the corm for the winter. I don't have a 'cold' room, even my basement is warm with the furnace heat. What recommendations for storage are there..bare, in a bag of peat, etc.? I will also be doing the bare root thing for all my non-hardy bananas except the DC will stay potted. Thanks for everyone's help.
Salty, last year when I took in my alocasia x calidora the main central stalk(?) if thats what you'd call it broke off. It laid around for a while then I just stuck it in one of those plastic containers just big enough for a sandwich with a slight bit of seed starting mix and ignored it since I didn't really care if I lost it. It's surviving happilly in the ground out back at the moment. This leads me to believe there would be no trouble overwintering much like a plumeria or a bigdog banana. I'm going to do that with whatever portion of it I keep this year.........let me know if you want a chunk/ corm/ whatever you call them. Pics are in gallery I think.
adrift
07-25-2009, 07:15 PM
Lorax gave the best explanation that I've heard in a long time, including the exceptions.
For those who didn't know that a leaf has sinuses and wish an English translation of "fusion of the posterior lobes" and how an average Joe can remember how to tell an alocasia from a colocasia, here is the easy way:
Colocasia (starts with a "C") has the leaf stem coming from a more centered (starts with a "C") spot on the leaf. Those fused lobes make the leaf wrap around the stem more.
Alocasia (starts with "A") has the leaf stem coming from the edge of the leaf (nearly, and ignoring the lobes) and thus the leaf & leaf stem look like an arrow (starts with "A") with the shaft broken right behind the head. There is little or no fused lobe behind the stem.
Now, go back and look at the pictures and you'll see what I mean.
LilRaverBoi
07-25-2009, 08:44 PM
Thanks for the simpler explanation, adrift! Sounds like a good guideline to go by! Although, to be honest, I'm totally down with phrases like 'fusion of the posterior lobes.' I once gave an hour long talk on 'The detection of respiratory burst activity in bone marrow-derived murine macrophages by the reduction of cytochrome C'.....so once you hit nerd-bottom, there's no coming back! :ha::ha:
lorax
07-26-2009, 12:09 AM
LOL! Geeks rule, Bryan, and we both know it. Although, if I must say it, neither you nor I could ever be nerds - our hair and fashion sense is too good.
I've given talks on "The Hegelian Dialectic in Relation to the Early Realist Dramas" and "Harmonic Resonance and its Relation to Krebs-Cycle and Cytochrome-System Metabolisms" to name but two esoteric subjects, so I know exactly what you're talking about.
LilRaverBoi
07-26-2009, 12:21 AM
LOL! Geeks rule, Bryan, and we both know it. Although, if I must say it, neither you nor I could ever be nerds - our hair and fashion sense is too good.
I've given talks on "The Hegelian Dialectic in Relation to the Early Realist Dramas" and "Harmonic Resonance and its Relation to Krebs-Cycle and Cytochrome-System Metabolisms" to name but two esoteric subjects, so I know exactly what you're talking about.
LMFAO....YES...EXACTLY! Esoteric is the perfect word to describe the majority of my reality. But I would identify myself as a 'nerd' much more than a 'geek.' To me, nerds are book smart people who just know a lot about really obscure things...whereas geeks are more into computers, Star-Wars, pocket protectors, etc. Not really my thing. I'm nerdy to the utter CORE...but not really a geek, by my definitions anyway. Somehow I still manage to consider myself a 'cool' nerd via other various interests/hobbies. Maybe our definitions are variant....but I still feel like we're riding the same wavelength...which feels good! Thanks for the input!
PS...we're sooo beautifully off topic, but this is my thread and I just don't care!!! :woohoonaner: You've already taught me what I wanted to know, so feel free to indulge in the beautiful randomness! :ha:
saltydad
07-26-2009, 01:56 AM
I was a co-author on the fascinating bestseller
Methadone during pregnancy in the rat: dose level effects on maternal and perinatal mortality and growth in the offspring
back in 1979, among others. Nerds all unite!
Patty in Wisc
07-26-2009, 09:11 AM
Slight thread derail here:
I have wintered my colocasia/alocasia plants by protection in the ground (unsuccessful), and potting them up and bringing inside (mostly successful, although I lost a Nancy's Rrevenge and a Black Magic this past season). This fall I will not be potting them; I want to store the corm for the winter. I don't have a 'cold' room, even my basement is warm with the furnace heat. What recommendations for storage are there..bare, in a bag of peat, etc.? I will also be doing the bare root thing for all my non-hardy bananas except the DC will stay potted. Thanks for everyone's help.
Howard, how about the fridge? I have a dry Easter lily bulb in peat, in my crisper & will plant it again in Feb. Shouldn't that just put them to sleep?
lorax
07-26-2009, 11:02 AM
LOL! Bryan, I have always identified Nerds as somewhat antisocial beings with pocket-protectors, poor fashion sense, an obessionistic bent, and a hoard of obscure knowledge, often about Star Wars and Computers, although Quantum Physics is also a topic of choice. Geeks, on the other hand, are somewhat antisocial beings with slide-rules, good fashion sense, an obsessionistic bent, and a hoard of obscure knowledge about just about everything.
Hence, my friends have often accused me of "geeking up the air" on a number of subjects, but they've never ever accused me of being nerdy.
Patty: That should work. The only thing that might hinder you is the size of the corms.
LilRaverBoi
07-26-2009, 02:44 PM
Fair enough...as I said before...just slightly variant definitions. The moral of the story, though...is that we are the people who tend to ruin picnics by going into grand detail about some bug, plant or animal we see along the way.....or post thorough 300+ word responses to seemingly simple questions posted online which no one can later refute.
Ah, that's only way to live!!
Me and some optometry student friends (who all very are intelligent in their own regard) went to the zoo a month or so back. I was the person running around ogling all the plants, telling everyone their countries of origin and latin names...LOL. :ha:
Jeeps! :lurk: So much for Labels... How about just Cool, Inquisitive, & Having a Blast :nanerwizard: !? Much better than Cool, Inquisitive, & bored to bleep.
Beth, would there be any problems with cold humidity when storing Alocasias/Colocasias in a frig?
lorax
07-28-2009, 01:23 PM
I've not had any when I did that in Canada. Then again, they don't take a rest period here so I don't do the fridge thing anymore.
Taylor
07-28-2009, 01:53 PM
The Fridge.... great idea, Patty! Not frozen, but not too warm or too wet to cause problems (I think).
Simply Bananas
08-02-2009, 12:14 PM
My wife planted both in our ditch. They are tough as nails when it comes to cold. Too much dry weather and the taro(smaller on left) will fall to the ground.
What else do you do to a ditch?
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=20322&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20322&ppuser=226)
TommyMacLuckie
08-02-2009, 12:57 PM
In SE Louisiana you avoid them since they are quite deep and usually filled with two kinds of water - runoff from rain or lake/bayou water because of high tides.
And they will kill your car.
What are those frilled or wavy looking ears? I have some but I can never remember what they are called.
NeedForSeed
09-18-2012, 01:42 PM
I've just ordered a whole bunch of seeds including some Alocasia Macrorrhiza seeds and now I'm wondering if anyone have grown these guys directly from seed? They are said to grow fast but it will probably take some time from seed I figure now. Well well it will be an adventure just like everything else :p
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