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View Full Version : Did I over fertilize?


sunfish
06-25-2009, 06:38 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18760&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18760&ppuser=2868)


http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18762&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18762&ppuser=2868)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18761&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18761&ppuser=2868)

I think this is from to much fertilizer any idea on how to correct it ?

hammer
06-25-2009, 09:00 PM
My guess looks like something is eating the leaf i think the leaves would be turning black or brown just a guess.

hammer
06-25-2009, 09:03 PM
I think i would pour the water to it and hold of on the fertilizer.

sunfish
06-25-2009, 09:45 PM
I am pretty sure nothing is eating at them. I gave them a micronutrient supplement and I think they were already getting plenty in the regular fertilizer. So no more fert for awhile. Thanks

hammer
06-25-2009, 10:02 PM
Mine yung bananas look like that i was fertilizing 3 times a week so i stopped all fertilizing and started watering every day and now they look allot better.

Scot Nelson
06-27-2009, 01:33 AM
This is mainly a calcium deficiency. A quick fix is to apply calcium nitrate fertilizer.

Long-term, use ag lime and a banana fertilizer having all minor elements. You may need to add extra boron eventually.

When a plant has too much nitrogen, it can outgrow the available calcium supply; hence one thinks the odd symptoms you see are due to over-fertilizing.

:03:

Scot Nelson

sunfish
06-27-2009, 12:02 PM
Thanks Scot

I figured it was some dificiency , but I wasn't sure. Could I have over applied some fertilizer to cause this. Like to much 0-0-50.

Worm_Farmer
06-27-2009, 12:55 PM
Is this something K-Mag or Azomite might fix?
I have been mixing my fertilizer's with Azomite. I have not seen any neg affects, I have been matching 1Tbsp Fertilizer to 1Tbsp Azomite.

sunfish
06-27-2009, 01:06 PM
Richard suggested I add ag. lime when I fertilize.I bought some and forgot to use it . Won't happen again.

sunfish
06-29-2009, 10:18 AM
Saturday I put down some ag.lime and gave the plants a folair spray of calcium supplement. We will see what happens.

Scot Nelson
06-29-2009, 12:58 PM
Saturday I put down some ag.lime and gave the plants a folair spray of calcium supplement. We will see what happens.

Please update us in a few weeks. :03:

tophersmith
06-29-2009, 01:52 PM
Saturday I put down some ag.lime and gave the plants a folair spray of calcium supplement. We will see what happens.

Aside from lime can you name some calcium supplements so I don't have to sit there scratching my head in front of the fertilizers for 20 minutes :03:

sunfish
06-29-2009, 02:15 PM
. I will let someone else answer that one. Got a liquid supplement from Richard. Will update when I see any change in the leaves.

Richard
06-29-2009, 09:24 PM
Aside from lime can you name some calcium supplements so I don't have to sit there scratching my head in front of the fertilizers for 20 minutes :03:

At a retail nursery you can often find calcium supplements among the Cacti & Succulent products. From a farm supply wholesaler you can find both water soluble and liquid calcium supplements. For example, I provided Tony (sunfish (http://www.bananas.org/member-sunfish.html)) with a Grow More product that is 25% Calcium chelated in lignosulfonates. It's $3 a quart -- if any one else is interested send me an email and I'll put on my website.

harveyc
06-30-2009, 12:53 AM
I just use gypsum. Lime will raise my pH which is something I don't want to do since it's already around 6.9-7.2.

I also have used a commercial liquid fertilizer CAN-17 but I don't think it's available retail.

sunfish
06-30-2009, 10:50 AM
Just checked soil ph it's 5. So sould I apply more ag lime?

Richard
06-30-2009, 11:00 AM
Just checked soil ph it's 5. So should I apply more ag lime?

You might check the pH of the Ag lime to find out if it is alkaline or neutral. Start with a tablespoon a week and stop in the week the pH reaches 5.5. The Ag lime breaks down slowly so when it reaches 5.5 the pH is still rising.

Tony, the city water at your location is slightly alkaline. Consequently you will also raise the pH slightly every time you water.

harveyc
06-30-2009, 11:01 AM
Wow! Yes! A pH that low is pretty rare in California except in areas where farmers have applied lots of ammonium sulfate.

A low pH like that is great for phosphorus being made more available but it's detrimental for some other nutrients as well as some beneficial microbial life.

It's usually best to also check your water pH but with a soil pH that low you have a lot of capacity to buffer even a moderately high water pH.

sunfish
06-30-2009, 11:14 AM
Could this be from me over using to much ammonium nitrate. I have the can 27 . My soil is clay.

harveyc
06-30-2009, 12:15 PM
Tony, I don't believe ammonium nitrate has a big effect on pH. I'm surprised you can get it, though. Since the bombing in Oklahoma City the two ag suppliers near me quit carrying it because of the additional security required by some additional regulations.

Richard, are you saying that some sources of lime are neutral? Lime is widely used in agriculture to raise pH and I've never heard of a form that isn't alkaline.

sunfish
06-30-2009, 12:30 PM
I have had this bag of0-0-27 sitting around for years, thats why I wanted to use it up. So I am looking for a ph aruond 7 ?. Maybe this is why my blueberries have done pretty good. Thanks for the help.

Richard
06-30-2009, 12:45 PM
I have had this bag of0-0-27 sitting around for years, thats why I wanted to use it up. So I am looking for a ph aruond 7 ?. ...

The goal for bananas is 6.2 to 6.4. Be careful with slower release minerals: you need to stop applying when the pH is headed in the right direction and wait for weeks or months until it stabilizes.

... Maybe this is why my blueberries have done pretty good.

Oh yeah, they are loving it at pH of 5 to 5.5.

Scot Nelson
06-30-2009, 01:02 PM
Tony, I don't believe ammonium nitrate has a big effect on pH. I'm surprised you can get it, though. Since the bombing in Oklahoma City the two ag suppliers near me quit carrying it because of the additional security required by some additional regulations.

Richard, are you saying that some sources of lime are neutral? Lime is widely used in agriculture to raise pH and I've never heard of a form that isn't alkaline.

Gypsum. It is a very soft mineral composed of calcium sulfate dihydrate, with the chemical formula CaSO4·2H2O. Good soil conditioner, won't raise the soil pH as will the use of ag lime.

damaclese
06-30-2009, 01:02 PM
I'm sure some one will not agree with this but when Banana leafs come out incomplete like i see in your picture this is most often a sign of calcium deficiency and brown dry sections on a newly emerging leaf that has not unfurled yet is often a sign of drought

harveyc
06-30-2009, 01:03 PM
Here is the chart I referred to earlier which displays pretty well why I don't think it's good to have pH as low as 5.0

http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/FertCalc_files/pH_file/pH.jpg

sunfish
06-30-2009, 02:00 PM
Two of my bananas have the problem with dry brown sections. In the photos you can see one has this problem and the other dosn't.These plants are no more than four feet apart. So I am guessing it has something to do with the root system since they both receive the same amount of water.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18871&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18871&ppuser=2868)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18870&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18870&ppuser=2868)

Patty in Wisc
06-30-2009, 02:14 PM
I save egg shells & crush them into fine peices. Yesterday I mixed them into the top of soil just for a little bit of calcium - in case they need it.

Bob
06-30-2009, 03:17 PM
I save egg shells & crush them into fine peices. Yesterday I mixed them into the top of soil just for a little bit of calcium - in case they need it.

Leave it to practical Patty, good idea why waste.

ewitte
06-30-2009, 04:02 PM
I will have to remember that next time I have real eggs (I've been buying egg whites since thats all I use).

Richard
06-30-2009, 11:47 PM
Tony,

As Scot pointed out, you have leaf deformity from Calcium deficiency. Note that from the classic diagram Harvey posted that with a pH of 5.0 it is very difficult for the plants to obtain Calcium from the soil. Further, the browning on the leaf edges is likely from the acidic condition.

Lagniappe
06-30-2009, 11:58 PM
I save egg shells & crush them into fine peices. Yesterday I mixed them into the top of soil just for a little bit of calcium - in case they need it.

I have a blender that's used strictly for making kalkwasser from eggshells. I was pouring them into my worm bed in hopes of getting calcium enriched castings, but I think it would be great to water with as well.
I use a 100 gallon horse trough to dilute tea and molasses which I spray onto my beds and lawn. I'll try pouring some of this into the mix with the next application.

Patty in Wisc
07-01-2009, 12:01 AM
Ewitte, you must be sensitive to eggs like me. Sometimes I eat them fried over easy & will get sick on the not cooked egg yolks, but not all the time.
Richard, it was Pauly that mentioned calcium deficiency.

Patty in Wisc
07-01-2009, 12:13 AM
Actually I mash them w/ mortar & pestle.
Pete, what is a kalkwasser? I never heard of that & it's not in my dictionary.
Molasses is a new one too. I heard of pouring old coca cola & sugar around but not that. Makes sense-- they must love sweet stuff.

Lagniappe
07-01-2009, 12:21 AM
Actually I mash them w/ mortar & pestle.
Pete, what is a kalkwasser? I never heard of that & it's not in my dictionary.
Molasses is a new one too. I heard of pouring old coca cola & sugar around but not that. Makes sense-- they must love sweet stuff.

It's German for lime water or calcium water. I only did it this way because I couldn't get the particle size I wanted without adding water and my esspresso mill is too small.

Richard
07-01-2009, 03:49 AM
Notice that it is possible to have too much Calcium: Guide to Micronutrients (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guides/Micronutrients.htm)

Generally you would want to limit Calcium to about 1/5th the amount of Nitrogen and no more than 3 times the amount of Magnesium -- measured by net weight.

jmoore
07-01-2009, 05:30 AM
For those people that live in hard water areas (for those that don't know the level of dissolved calcium carbonate in the water being very high) is it still necessary to add calcium if the plants are watered with tap water providing the pH is low enough?

Richard
07-01-2009, 08:32 AM
For those people that live in hard water areas (for those that don't know the level of dissolved calcium carbonate in the water being very high) is it still necessary to add calcium if the plants are watered with tap water providing the pH is low enough?

No. Calcium deficiency is rare in continental soils or commercial soil mixes. Calcium supplements are most often used in soil-less media or for calcium-loving plants such as cacti.

sandy0225
07-02-2009, 07:08 AM
I think it's evironmental/stress. I occasionally get signs like this on some of my bananas in the spring, one here and there will be affected in a greenhouse full. They are all getting the same care/ fertilizer/ ph adjustment. I've found that a ph around 6 works well around here for bananas. Fertilizer changes during the season. higher temps=more fertilizer up to 300 ppm, lower temps = less fertilizer down to 50-100 ppm in mid winter. Same with water, more temp=more water, less temp=less water. You can adjust as a hobbyist with white vinegar, just add a few Tablespoons to your watering water to change the ph for cheap. Some nitrogen fertilizers will also cause changes in Ph. It sounds like you've already done enough to your banana for now. I'd give it a rest and flush it out really well with some regular tap water for a while a couple of times a week. Maybe for a month or so. Then check your ph again and do something accordingly.
also has it been windy there? or was it windy there right before this happened? I've found that sometimes wind can affect a stressed banana like that. It takes a while to show up sometimes.

sunfish
07-02-2009, 08:32 AM
No high winds but we had two weeks of overcast. The problem is random some plants not effected at all.I am going to follow your advice. No fert. just water for awhile. Thanks

sunfish
07-08-2009, 02:16 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19127&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19127&ppuser=2868)

New leaf on plant looking good.




This is caused by one leaf growing inside the other. I have this problem with a few plants.The leaves are unable to unfurl.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19126&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19126&ppuser=2868)