View Full Version : fertillizer in potted plant
kman84
06-04-2009, 08:35 PM
I just re-potted a d. cavendish but did not use fertilizer in the soil mix. It is about 2ft tall now. I want to put something like egg shells and/or fish guts in. Can I just put it on the top layer of the soil or do I have to take the plant out and mix it well with the soil?
alpha010
06-05-2009, 05:24 AM
I use Dynamite slow release 14-14-14 granules on mine, just shaken on the top every few weeks. I did not mix any kind of fertilizer into the soil mix when planting and it has been doing great for the last year or so. I may, at the end of the season when my potted one goes back inside to his window, uproot it and hose all the soil mix used previously off and put in new mix to keep it healthy.
First post on this thread,I have just purchased a red abyssinian banana,I live in the u,k just near London,and I have no ideas on what to feed it ,at the moment I am feeding chicken pellets,can anybody idvise me as this is my first banana
Richard
07-14-2009, 06:27 AM
First post on this thread,I have just purchased a red abyssinian banana,I live in the u,k just near London,and I have no ideas on what to feed it ,at the moment I am feeding chicken pellets,can anybody idvise me as this is my first banana
This is an ornamental banana and hence use a citrus fertilizer. For more details see "Specific Needs of Bananas" in Info:Fertilizer - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Info:Fertilizer)
I just re-potted a d. cavendish but did not use fertilizer in the soil mix. It is about 2ft tall now. I want to put something like egg shells and/or fish guts in. Can I just put it on the top layer of the soil or do I have to take the plant out and mix it well with the soil?
Neither of these are a good approach for a fruiting banana.
turtile
07-14-2009, 05:39 PM
I just re-potted a d. cavendish but did not use fertilizer in the soil mix. It is about 2ft tall now. I want to put something like egg shells and/or fish guts in. Can I just put it on the top layer of the soil or do I have to take the plant out and mix it well with the soil?
Placing it on top would be best but it won't do much. Go with a slow release fertilizer such as Osmocote Plus.
alexizhere19
07-17-2009, 09:05 PM
Hi,
I have been using Dynamite all purpose slow release and once every other week i use
a water soluble fertilizer. I have seen good results with this. If you want organic consider working in some composted manure or worm castings.
alex
Richard
07-17-2009, 09:54 PM
If you want organic consider working in some composted manure or worm castings.
The percentages of nutrients in these is so low that they are more accurately thought of as supplements. Otherwise they are both beneficial to plants. I use worm castings in every soil mix that I make for my own use.
A year-long study out here in commercial orchards has shown that worm castings applied topically alone are no better than topically applying composted mulch alone. This is significant because worm castings cost 20 times more than composted mulch. Another find of interest to homeowners and perhaps no surprise to many of you: the best scenario by far was topical worm castings covered with a 3-4 inch layer of composted mulch.
The "composted mulch" in the study was produced by first "cooking" enormous piles of shredded greenery clippings for 90+ days, then using mechanized sorters to produce several grades of products. The composted mulch is the 1-inch screened material.
alexizhere19
07-17-2009, 10:18 PM
The percentages of nutrients in these is so low that they are more accurately thought of as supplements. Otherwise they are both beneficial to plants. I use worm castings in every soil mix that I make for my own use.
A year-long study out here in commercial orchards has shown that worm castings applied topically alone are no better than topically applying composted mulch alone. This is significant because worm castings cost 20 times more than composted mulch. Another find of interest to homeowners and perhaps no surprise to many of you: the best scenario by far was topical worm castings covered with a 3-4 inch layer of composted mulch.
The "composted mulch" in the study was produced by first "cooking" enormous piles of shredded greenery clippings for 90+ days, then using mechanized sorters to produce several grades of products. The composted mulch is the 1-inch screened material.
Thanks for the info, I generally dont care whether its organic or not, But some people try to avoid synthetics. I used well composted horse manure as a supplement to my mix at planting. I saw the cost of " black castings" at a local nursery and was shocked at the price for a small bag. I think its ridiculous considering all other sources of compost, more of a ploy towards people who want to be earth friendly. I believe if u had the time to farm worms and collect them yourself it could make it worth while.
alex
Richard
07-17-2009, 10:38 PM
Thanks for the info, I generally dont care whether its organic or not, But some people try to avoid synthetics.
Yes, and sadly most of those folks don't realize that many water-soluble fertilizer products contain zero synthetics.
Hey for Hay! Composted horse poop is a great all-around supplement and well-balanced for subtropicals. Its a good idea though to inquire when the ranchers are worming their horses, because the dosage is quite high and you don't want it in your edible plants.
I have taken the chicken pellets of the top of my red abyssiniun,do I need to replace them with anything else?.And thanks for the advice so far but what is citrus feed,sorry for my ignorance!!!
Richard
07-20-2009, 06:07 AM
I have taken the chicken pellets of the top of my red abyssiniun,do I need to replace them with anything else?.And thanks for the advice so far but what is citrus feed,sorry for my ignorance!!!
Fertilizers formulated for Citrus have 2/3 as much Potash as Nitrogen and a lesser amount of Phosphate. Example percentages are 12-4-8, 15-5-10, 28-8-18, etc. These are excellent for ornamental bananas such as your red abyssinian. For more details, see Info:Fertilizer - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Info:Fertilizer)
hi...
I give my bananas in pots every two days 12+12+17+2 magnesium. I dissolve the Fertilizer in water. My red abyssiniun grows very quickly, look at my Gallery, they are 8 month old.
..many greets from Germany, Michael.
Thanks Musa but being new to this side of gardening what ia this 12-12-17 thig mean
Richard
07-20-2009, 08:49 AM
Thanks Musa but being new to this side of gardening what ia this 12-12-17 thig mean
See Info:Fertilizer - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Info:Fertilizer)
@ coub
N-P-K: 12+12+17+2magnesium
Nitrogen (N) 12%
Phosphate (P) 12%
Potash (K) 17%
Magnesium 2%
See Info:Fertilizer - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Info:Fertilizer)I have looked at this Richard but it just say to give these numbers but fails to explain exactly what they mean,[or am I missing something?.]:0518:
And how do you get this combination in a feed Musa?.
LilRaverBoi
07-20-2009, 12:34 PM
The numbers are used as proportions of the basic nutrients: nitrogen, phosphorus potassium. These numbers can be found on store-bought fertilizers so the buyer knows what the constituents of the mix are.
Lagniappe
07-20-2009, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the info, I generally dont care whether its organic or not, But some people try to avoid synthetics. I used well composted horse manure as a supplement to my mix at planting. I saw the cost of " black castings" at a local nursery and was shocked at the price for a small bag. I think its ridiculous considering all other sources of compost, more of a ploy towards people who want to be earth friendly. I believe if u had the time to farm worms and collect them yourself it could make it worth while.
alex
It's not a ploy at all. Castings are loaded with biology and are a great inoculate for soils and teas.
To get fresh castings, just find any container and throw in worms and food. They'll eat shredded paper, cardboard, rotten veggies, manure.....w/e
To harvest the castings, just feed on one side of the container, then switch to the other side. The worms will follow the food and leave the side that's been reduced to castings.
I sowed these adenium in 1/2" of castings and never got around to repotting them. I poked a hole in there with my finger to show the depth.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19669&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19669&ppuser=766)
Lagniappe
07-20-2009, 02:15 PM
Forgot to mention that I've decided that it's too hard (for me) to grow all organic in a closed system.
While plants in the yard have access to a wide compliment of fungi, protozoa, bacteria, ..... and can pull nutrients from a ways away, the resources of containerized plants are limited (IMO).
So now I'm throwing nutrients at [the potted plants] and they seem content.
I could feed a lot of tea and buy organic feeds, but I'm growing on the cheap and and lazy so it's slow release for my potted stuff, and the yard plants are on their own.
Richard
07-20-2009, 04:05 PM
I have looked at this Richard but it just say to give these numbers but fails to explain exactly what they mean,[or am I missing something?.]:0518:
The second bullet:
N-P-K: The percentages by weight of Nitrogen (N), Phosphate (P), and Potash (K) in a fertilizer. For example, a fertilizer labeled 4-1-1 has 4% N, 1% P, and 1% K by weight. This is true for both liquids and solids.
adrift
07-20-2009, 07:03 PM
I have looked at this Richard but it just say to give these numbers but fails to explain exactly what they mean,[or am I missing something?.]:0518:
What they mean are the percentage by weight of nitrogen (N), phosphate (abbreviated P for its functional element, phosphorus), and potash (abbreviated K for its functional element, potassium).
Perhaps we are making assumptions that are false outside of North America. Here in the US, fertilizer is required to have its "analysis" stated on the label. You just look at the bag and find the best price on the formula that most closely matches your needs. Lawns usually get really high nitrogen to make them super green ... but that will make other plants tall and leggy. "Bloom booster" types usually have lower nitrogen and high phosphate. Our bananas are fond of potash.
Here is a picture of a brand (deleted) of fertilizer that is available at the big hardware stores (at least in this corner of the US). The big green arrow points to the analysis. This is a 17-3-11 fertilizer, meaning by weight there is 17% nitrogen, 3% phosphate, and 11% potash. The rest is fillers and/or chemicals that aren't really important to plants, and if you are lucky you'll get 8 or 10 or more "minors and micros" in there too.
For (fruiting) bananas you'd actually want something with more potash / potassium (3rd number) ... if it is available for a reasonable price. We aren't trying to land on the moon, we're just trying to do good by some plants. If 12-2-10 is half the price of the 8-3-12, then you might seriously consider the cheaper stuff.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19681&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19681&ppuser=1597)
adrift
07-20-2009, 07:21 PM
I have taken the chicken pellets of the top of my red abyssiniun,do I need to replace them with anything else?.And thanks for the advice so far but what is citrus feed,sorry for my ignorance!!!
Citrus feed / food is fertilizer with an analysis (N-P-K again) that is generally considered good for citrus plants. It will probably also have a collection of micronutrients good for the average citrus plant in the average soil that citrus tend to be grown.
Similarly, palm food is a fertilizer with a similar but slightly different analysis that is optimal for palms. It may (hopefully will) have more magnesium than citrus food because many of the popular landscape palms are not native to where they are grown and need more of magnesium than is available (in Florida soils, anyway).
Citrus and palm fertilizers may be hard to find in London, unless climate change is going a whole lot faster than we've been told. But if you look, I'm sure there is a fertilizer that has a similar analysis.
magicgreen
07-20-2009, 11:22 PM
How bout' just eating a banana or apple or pear, veggie, whatever.......then digging a shallow hole near your plant of choice, drop the carcuss in the hole and then covering it up with the soil you dug up!
Viola!! instant compose and plant nutrients! :woohoonaner:
Sounds easier I thought................:goteam:
LilRaverBoi
07-21-2009, 12:22 AM
Okay...here's my question. Are the three numbers percentages??? Cause they rarely add to 100. I always assumed they were how may parts....a ratio, if you will. Like 10 parts N to 10 parts P to 10 parts K.
Richard
07-21-2009, 12:47 AM
Okay...here's my question. Are the three numbers percentages???
Yes. The 17-3-11 shown in adrift's photo below are percentages of Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potash. I believe that particular fertilizer contains another 5% of "minors" and "micronutrients", plus about 64% of inert ingredients. All of the percentages are by weight, not volume -- even if you are looking at a liquid fertilizer.
Thanks for the help all, but our composts and feeds don't show the numbers in and around London maybe if I try a large garden centre they may have the info[but I doubt that very much] so any other information would be helpful.Or maybe someone from around here may visit the forum,as I have checked the map and they do exist.
Richard
07-21-2009, 07:53 AM
Composts are considered a soil amendment and not a fertilizer. The percentages of nutrients in them are typically less than 1%. Here is a site with reasonably accurate data on compost materials: Primalseeds - % composition of materials (http://www.primalseeds.org/npk.htm)
Thanks Richard please remind me what am I aiming for,I took the p.h of my soil about 1/2 hour ago and it was only 4.0.
LilRaverBoi
07-21-2009, 12:51 PM
HOLY CRAP that's acidic! I'm no soil expert, and I realize plants are capable of living in a wider varieties of pH conditions. But speaking of humans, our body pH is 7.4 and even a small change in either direction, say 7.0 or 8 would result in acidosis, and alkylosis (respectively) and certain death. Kinda interesting that plants are able to tolerate this much more readily than ourselves. So this leads me to the question....what are normal soil pH levels?
alexizhere19
07-21-2009, 06:13 PM
It's not a ploy at all. Castings are loaded with biology and are a great inoculate for soils and teas.
To get fresh castings, just find any container and throw in worms and food. They'll eat shredded paper, cardboard, rotten veggies, manure.....w/e
To harvest the castings, just feed on one side of the container, then switch to the other side. The worms will follow the food and leave the side that's been reduced to castings.
I sowed these adenium in 1/2" of castings and never got around to repotting them. I poked a hole in there with my finger to show the depth.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=19669&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19669&ppuser=766)
Pete what i meant was for the price per bag it was a waste. I know so many more things I could put together to get a good result. I am not against vermiculture, I just think its a shame the charge that for a bag whether it is a fair market price or not A lot of people cant justify spending that much on a small bag.
alex
adrift
07-21-2009, 06:42 PM
Okay...here's my question. Are the three numbers percentages??? Cause they rarely add to 100. I always assumed they were how may parts....a ratio, if you will. Like 10 parts N to 10 parts P to 10 parts K.
It is percent by weight.
If it ever added to 100 that would be some strong mojo!
Part may be filler (purposefully), but it also can be any variety of parts that don't get counted in those 3 numbers. Minors & micros. If they used ammonium sulfate for the nitrogen source, you'd have that sulfur in there. If they used potassium chloride as the potassium source, you'd have that chlorine in there. (On the back of the bag you may see, for example "chlorine not more than 10%.") Potassium nitrate has N & K both, but also oxygen (O3) in there. In the case of "slow release" types there will be whatever resin stuff they use that slowly dissolves to release the goodies.
adrift
07-21-2009, 06:49 PM
How bout' just eating a banana or apple or pear, veggie, whatever.......then digging a shallow hole near your plant of choice, drop the carcuss in the hole and then covering it up with the soil you dug up!
Viola!! instant compose and plant nutrients! :woohoonaner:
Sounds easier I thought................:goteam:
Read this:
http://www.bananas.org/f2/banana-peels-3508.html
adrift
07-21-2009, 06:53 PM
HOLY CRAP that's acidic! I'm no soil expert, and I realize plants are capable of living in a wider varieties of pH conditions. But speaking of humans, our body pH is 7.4 and even a small change in either direction, say 7.0 or 8 would result in acidosis, and alkylosis (respectively) and certain death. Kinda interesting that plants are able to tolerate this much more readily than ourselves. So this leads me to the question....what are normal soil pH levels?
Well, remember you are comparing the pH of blood with the pH of an environment. We can drink (and even swim in) stuff with a much wider pH range. (consider lemon juice) I suppose plants live a little closer to their environment than we do, but it still is external.
But yeah, that is too acidic for just about all plants. I don't think even blueberries like it that acid, do they (5 or 5.5 for them?)?
Lagniappe
07-21-2009, 07:03 PM
Pete what i meant was for the price per bag it was a waste. I know so many more things I could put together to get a good result. I am not against vermiculture, I just think its a shame the charge that for a bag whether it is a fair market price or not A lot of people cant justify spending that much on a small bag.
alex
I agree. That's money that could go toward a closet worm farm.
The castings can be used in small amounts as an amendment and these could be produced for pennies in such a system.
alexizhere19
07-27-2009, 05:33 PM
I agree. That's money that could go toward a closet worm farm.
The castings can be used in small amounts as an amendment and these could be produced for pennies in such a system.
I broke down and said i was gonna give it a try, I bough Black Castings for mu tc naners that are small so we will see.
alex
Lagniappe
07-27-2009, 06:01 PM
A control group is in order then!
cowboyup4christ
07-28-2009, 07:45 PM
For my naners I use 10-20-20
turtile
07-28-2009, 07:48 PM
HOLY CRAP that's acidic! I'm no soil expert, and I realize plants are capable of living in a wider varieties of pH conditions. But speaking of humans, our body pH is 7.4 and even a small change in either direction, say 7.0 or 8 would result in acidosis, and alkylosis (respectively) and certain death. Kinda interesting that plants are able to tolerate this much more readily than ourselves. So this leads me to the question....what are normal soil pH levels?
Most plants do best at a pH between 6 and 7. Living things can buffer their pH. We can consume many things that are highly acidic.
LilRaverBoi
07-28-2009, 08:39 PM
Well, I do definitely agree that there is a difference between environmental pH and body pH. Yes, we can consume things of higher/lower pH because of our ability to buffer the acid/alkaline levels. Our bodies also have metabolic/respiratory processes to alter body pH to compensate for changes (I assume plants can do this as well). For instance, if our body pH is too low, we begin to breathe more rapidly, which reduces the amount of CO2 in our blood, which raises the pH. However, there is a limit to our buffering capacity (as well as plants). If we consumed only acidic food/liquids, we would eventually lower our body pH enough to overcome our buffering capacity/respiratory ability to counteract this. If you put a fish in slightly acidic/alkaline water, it could survive...but if you put it in water with a pH of 2, it isn't gonna last long.
I guess my question is this: what is the pH range of soil that is compatible with life for banana plants?
Richard
07-28-2009, 11:00 PM
I guess my question is this: what is the pH range of soil that is compatible with life for banana plants?
This question implicitly asks: What range of pH is necessary for bananas in soil media to uptake the minerals they desire? (Answer: 5.8 to 7, but 6.1 to 6.5 is more ideal).
Availability of nutrients as a function of pH:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7774&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7774)
Lagniappe
07-28-2009, 11:09 PM
Have any of you heard of multiple pH zones in container or field applications?
Richard
07-28-2009, 11:15 PM
Have any of you heard of multiple pH zones in container or field applications?
Not uncommon in field (row) crops. Also occurring in southern California orchards where blueberries are being inserted (need pH ~= 5.5).
LilRaverBoi
07-28-2009, 11:24 PM
Sweet...thanks for the info and great chart, Richard!
Lagniappe
07-28-2009, 11:25 PM
I've been kicking this idea around for a while. I read about some growers who potted with layers or sections of different media.
I also saw some 'hybrid' applications where a leader from a tomato plant and limbs from trees were laid over and rooted into seperate pots (air layered, but never severed ) or into hydroponics to feed the main plant (This obviously wouldn't work with bananas).
Lagniappe
07-28-2009, 11:47 PM
It took som searching, but I found a page on this:
BroadrOOt.com--The MultirOOt Report (Chapter 1) (http://broadroot.com/content/green/multirOOting1.html)
Interesting stuff.
Richard
07-29-2009, 12:03 AM
The whole idea about planting tomatoes deeper came about because the starts were raised in hot houses, then sold to outdoor gardeners. In this situation the starts must be planted deeper because they are too weak to take the non-hothouse environment.
Now I guess that planting deeper as the article suggests would help in situations where growing area is limited. Certainly it is true for tomatoes that crop production is proportional to root volume. When customers want to grow a standard tomato in a pot I always recommend 1 plant in a 25 gallon pot. They look at me like I'm crazy, but after they try it and get 200-300 lbs of tomatoes per plant they start to understand.
When I plant tomatoes in my garden, they are 6-foot apart on center and the ground is heavily mulched so the roots can go deep and wide. 300 lbs per plant is typical.
Lagniappe
07-29-2009, 12:08 AM
But this article is more about bringing in a different type of soil, mounding it up near an existing plant, and growing the plant in two pH's instead of one to influence a broader spectrum of nutrient uptake.
BroadrOOt.com--The MultirOOt Report (Chapter 2) (http://broadroot.com/content/green/multirOOting2.html)
Richard
07-29-2009, 12:42 AM
Oops o.k., in chapter one they were focused on root volume. Looking at the cation availability chart, I guess they are concerned with more input of Boron and Manganese?
Lagniappe
07-29-2009, 12:45 AM
Their technique wouldn't work with bananas, but I wonder about adding different mediums in one container to get separate pH zones?
Richard
07-29-2009, 12:53 AM
You could do it by radial distribution. However, the question is: why bother? IF the plants would benefit from more uptake of a certain segment of minerals, THEN it would be worth doing. I'm not aware of this being the case with bananas.
Troppo
08-06-2009, 11:24 PM
Thanks for the help all, but our composts and feeds don't show the numbers in and around London maybe if I try a large garden centre they may have the info[but I doubt that very much] so any other information would be helpful.Or maybe someone from around here may visit the forum,as I have checked the map and they do exist.
Hi coub.
Consider yourself lucky that the labels and instructions are in English.
I'm sure you will find fert with the NPK numbers on the pack.
If they do in Thailand, they'll do it in Pommieland.
I have to wait for my long-haired dictionary to turn up and read the dosage / instructions for me. :)
Looked again today Troppo and can confirm they do not give the information needed.
Richard
08-11-2009, 10:31 AM
First post on this thread,I have just purchased a red abyssinian banana,I live in the u,k just near London,and I have no ideas on what to feed it ,at the moment I am feeding chicken pellets,can anybody idvise me as this is my first banana
As posted earlier, your soil pH is currently 4.0. This is very acidic. The chicken pellets are also acidic, so adding them at this time is not recommended. Instead, you need to raise the pH of your soil to about 6.5 with something slightly alkaline. One approach would be to add a teaspoon of baking soda to each gallon of water for the next few weeks. Check the pH a few days after watering the plant.
Thanks for the info Richard:woohoonaner:
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