View Full Version : Siam Ruby Banana Fruit
ryboyer
05-21-2009, 07:35 PM
Has anyone out there seen or have pictures of siam ruby banana fruit. My local nursery has some real nice siam ruby plants. Their tags say they are ornimental. I perfer banana plants that produce edible fruit.
harveyc
05-21-2009, 10:58 PM
No, we've had a discussion about this before and we thought someone would have one flower last year but there's been no reports of this happening so far. If you want a pretty banana that produces good edible fruit, get an Ae Ae. At one time I said I'd never pay over $50 for a banana plant or "waste my time" growing an ornamental banana, but I've broken down several times now. To avoid breaking down on your own principles, you may want to avoid looking at bananas very often as they can be addicting.
frog7994
05-22-2009, 08:00 PM
I bought a Siam Ruby in a month it grew very well in the pot almost a foot . the next month I put it in the ground and it just looks like it died in a week it was gone. I felt the ground there still a comb nice and hard I hope it comes back.
ryboyer
05-22-2009, 11:50 PM
I hope it comes back too. It might send up two or three pups in its place.
Yvonne
ron_mcb
05-23-2009, 12:12 AM
im not trying to be funny or start anything but tyty stated on their website that the fruits were sweet . they are the only people ive seen who describe the fruit anywhere on the web.... yeah we all have a horror story,or heard them i know.
i met a lady at a local nursery where she said they produced "sugar nanas" once. she didnt know anything about siam ruby or even the name untill i told her.... yeah im aware that no one has pictures of one fruiting. im not saying any fruiting story is true :nanadrink:
just j
05-23-2009, 09:30 AM
i have been looking for pictures of the fruit or flower also no luck as for this ty ty place i checked them out online yesterday i would never buy anything from a company that puts junky cars and models next to plants i looked at one of the plants and they have what looks like a 94 nissan sentra with a body kit on it next to a banana plant absoluty rediculous, i think. and i wouldnt belive anything that they say either hey maybe that siam ruby they have pictured has fruit hanging from it but u will never know cause they have some guys face plastered over it lol
Neukman51
05-25-2009, 02:22 PM
I recently saw a very exquisite "ornamental" banana at the Atlanta Botanical Garden during a recent orchid show...
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/Neukman51/OrnamentalBanana.jpg
It caught my eye and interest enough to photgraph it along with the orchids and exhibit of blown glass scultptures. Unfortunately I didn't photogrph it's name plate as I often do with plants that I want to later research. But I offer the above as a possibility.
Neukman51
05-25-2009, 02:58 PM
Ooops... More searching revealed this photo of the "Siam Ruby" from Stokes Tropicals...
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/Neukman51/SiamRuby.jpg
So it's anybody's guess what plant I saw below at the Atlanta Botaincal Gardens.
musaboru
05-25-2009, 03:04 PM
I recently saw a very exquisite "ornamental" banana at the Atlanta Botanical Garden during a recent orchid show...
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/Neukman51/OrnamentalBanana.jpg
It caught my eye and interest enough to photgraph it along with the orchids and exhibit of blown glass scultptures. Unfortunately I didn't photogrph it's name plate as I often do with plants that I want to later research. But I offer the above as a possibility.
Thats actually a Heliconia.
Does anyone know if ornamental and edible bananas can be hybridized to produce seedless offspring? Can you imagine pink skinned bananas with orange flesh and red-splotched leaves? I do and maybe one day, someone will create such a variety through hybridizing although it would take years or decades. These characteristics do exist in current bananas varieties, but not all in one plant.
As for the Siam Ruby, there is another site besides TyTy that mentions that the fruit was edible. If I come across it again, I'll link it here.
ryboyer
05-25-2009, 08:46 PM
I think this is call a parrot's beak?
exovetek
10-21-2009, 07:33 PM
Central Florida Farms also claims that Siam Ruby does produce sweet, edible, seedless fruit. If anyone can positively verify this, please update the bananas.org wiki for this banana. It says it produces seeded fruit.
Central Florida Farms - Musa Acuminata Siam Ruby All Red Variegated Leaf Tapo Dessert Banana Plant for sale! - Rare Palms & Hard to Find Rain Forest Tropical Plants, Seedlings & Giant Upright Elephant Ear Plants, Aroids - Free Priority Mail Order Shi (http://www.centralfloridafarms.com/banana-siamruby.htm)
At this point, I'd really have to see a photo of the Siam with the fruit attached. :lurk: Have been Very Curious since the start of the "Who has the biggest - tallest Siam Ruby out there?" thread. Just bumped that thread :).
stumpy4700
10-21-2009, 11:30 PM
First one to get fruit will be a hero!!!!! good luck all!!!! Mine are 2 years old so I'm hoping for next year...
ryboyer
10-22-2009, 11:22 AM
Central Florida Farms also claims that Siam Ruby does produce sweet, edible, seedless fruit. If anyone can positively verify this, please update the bananas.org wiki for this banana. It says it produces seeded fruit.
Central Florida Farms - Musa Acuminata Siam Ruby All Red Variegated Leaf Tapo Dessert Banana Plant for sale! - Rare Palms & Hard to Find Rain Forest Tropical Plants, Seedlings & Giant Upright Elephant Ear Plants, Aroids - Free Priority Mail Order Shi (http://www.centralfloridafarms.com/banana-siamruby.htm)
DO NOT DO BUISNESS WITH SOUTH CENTRAL FARMS!!! THEY HAVE BEEN TURNED IN TO THE BETTER BUINESS BUREAU NUMEROUS TIMES. THEY WILL MAKE EXCUSSES LIKE HAVING FREEZING TEMPERTURES IN SOUTH FLORIDA TO TRY AND EAT UP YOUR 45 DAY REFUND WINDOW WITH PAY PAL.
damaclese
10-22-2009, 11:56 AM
The story as i heard it was:
when the Siam Ruby was first discovered in Indonesia-2005 the natives that were selling that original plant claimed that it had a sweet fruit so thats were the idea that its sweet comes from. its closely related to Musa acuminata Tapo AA which is the side of the Musa family were the sweet part comes from. so as an educated guess all say it sweet. just as an side note to this discussion the main reason I believe no ones got it to fruit is that it needs high levels of constant heat above 95 to 110. this is the rang that iv noted that it grows the best in not the normal 84 to 94 degrease like most other Musa grow in. just from my observations its not all that in to humidity. but were it was discovered is vary humid but i believe it was transported there from the P.N.G. by human intervention. keep trying sooner or later one of us geniuses is going to get the Nobel prise for fruiting it! J/K but it will happen and when it dose its going to be front page news on the BQ news and I'm sure who ever dose it will have more then one horticultural reporter on there door step.
Simply Bananas
10-22-2009, 02:06 PM
I haven't looked at mine since the girls were there last month, so I thought that I'd take a look...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/porkpi/100_7871.jpg
I'm going to eat one now!
austinl01
10-22-2009, 02:13 PM
Wow, those ripened right on the plant too! I wonder if the plant also naturally produced a Dole sticker on the bunch??? That would be some genetic engineering for sure! :ha:
http://ameliatorode.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/09/dole_sticker_animado_2.gif
Richard
10-22-2009, 02:14 PM
Where did you get the bananas to hang on that plant? :D
(or are they really siam ruby fruit?)
Simply Bananas
10-22-2009, 05:08 PM
Where did you get the bananas to hang on that plant? :D
(or are they really siam ruby fruit?)
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/porkpi/100_7873.jpg
That bunch came from a friend, the other bunches came from thrift stores. I have a lot of fun with them.
Gabe15
10-22-2009, 07:36 PM
when the Siam Ruby was first discovered in 2005 the natives that were selling that original plant claimed that it had a sweet fruit so thats were the idea that its sweet comes from. its closely related to Musa acuminata Tapo AA which is the side of the Musa family were the sweet part comes from. so as an educated guess all say it sweet. just as an side note to this discussion the main reason I believe no ones got it to fruit is that it needs high levels of constant heat above 95 to 110. this is the rang that iv noted that it grows the best in not the normal 84 to 94 degrease like most other Musa grow in. just from my observations its not all that in to humidity. but were it was discovered is vary humid but i believe it was transported there from the P.N.G. by human intervention. keep trying sooner or later one of us geniuses is going to get the Nobel prise for fruiting it! J/K but it will happen and when it dose its going to be front page news on the BQ news and I'm sure who ever dose it will have more then one horticultural reporter on there door step.
I was first shown the plant in 2004 and the story I was told was that it was collected in the wild in Indonesia, I know Indonesia is a very large place but thats all I was told. It wasn't until a few years later that stories of it being a sport of some edible cultivar called 'Tapo' from PNG started to circulate. There was also for a short time reports that it was from Palawan in the Philippines. There is diploid (AA) cultivar from PNG called 'Tapo', but there is really not much available information on it. Who knows what its true origins are.
I have speculated since 2004 that it would be a seeded, wild plant, and today I finally had the chance to call a friend who has been growing it for awhile to find out. I don't have any photos (yet), but based on the description it sounds like it is indeed a wild-type, seeded plant.
damaclese
10-22-2009, 08:27 PM
thanks Gabe i was told the story i posted i don't remember by whom i thought it was you but its been a year or more ago i still think its from PNG iv heard story's of a red leafy banana there but its hard to say yes i heard that it was seeded first then the sweet part later when i heard the story that it was related to A. Tapo then it seamed to me that it was probably sweet but i defer to you as your experience level out ways mine but years and years and years its a interesting story thanks for sharing it
didn't the original importer know some one here on the org? or was he a org member? i read that in a thread long long ago i should go find that thread it was fascinating and was what got me in to SR in the first place i think that was back in the 2005 or 2006 threads
PS i edited my first post to reflect that i was passing on the story so as not to confuse any one in to think i was telling it as it is sorry for the misinformed writing stile my thought often out raise my fingers ability to type every word
exovetek
10-22-2009, 09:09 PM
DO NOT DO BUISNESS WITH SOUTH CENTRAL FARMS!!! THEY HAVE BEEN TURNED IN TO THE BETTER BUINESS BUREAU NUMEROUS TIMES. THEY WILL MAKE EXCUSSES LIKE HAVING FREEZING TEMPERTURES IN SOUTH FLORIDA TO TRY AND EAT UP YOUR 45 DAY REFUND WINDOW WITH PAY PAL.
Noted. I wasn't planning on it, but thanks for the heads up.
sunfish
10-22-2009, 09:27 PM
SIAM RUBY* - A new member to our collection this year. Has beautiful RED leaves, top & bottom that vary in color depending on the amount of sun it gets. Great for that splash of color in the landscape and gives bananas too. I can't comment on the fruit or flavor as of yet, still awaiting our first harvest. We have great expectations for this beauty.
exovetek
10-22-2009, 09:32 PM
I was first shown the plant in 2004 and the story I was told was that it was collected in the wild in Indonesia, I know Indonesia is a very large place but thats all I was told. It wasn't until a few years later that stories of it being a sport of some edible cultivar called 'Tapo' from PNG started to circulate. There was also for a short time reports that it was from Palawan in the Philippines. There is diploid (AA) cultivar from PNG called 'Tapo', but there is really not much available information on it. Who knows what its true origins are.
I have speculated since 2004 that it would be a seeded, wild plant, and today I finally had the chance to call a friend who has been growing it for awhile to find out. I don't have any photos (yet), but based on the description it sounds like it is indeed a wild-type, seeded plant.
Thanks for the info Gabe. I just came across another company selling 'siam ruby'. What I found interesting in relation to your post is that they list 'Siam Ruby' as being Musa Acuminata 'Tapo chimera'. They also claim it is a dessert Banana. I was just wondering if you have any thoughts on this.
SIAM RUBY BANANA - Musa acuminata 'Tapo Chimera', 'Siam Ruby' | Green Sunshine | DoLeaf (http://doleaf.com/listings/75-siam-ruby-banana-musa-acuminata-tapo-chimera-siam-ruby)
Gabe15
10-22-2009, 11:43 PM
Thanks for the info Gabe. I just came across another company selling 'siam ruby'. What I found interesting in relation to your post is that they list 'Siam Ruby' as being Musa Acuminata 'Tapo chimera'. They also claim it is a dessert Banana. I was just wondering if you have any thoughts on this.
SIAM RUBY BANANA - Musa acuminata 'Tapo Chimera', 'Siam Ruby' | Green Sunshine | DoLeaf (http://doleaf.com/listings/75-siam-ruby-banana-musa-acuminata-tapo-chimera-siam-ruby)
It really doesn't matter what websites say, especially in cases of taxonomy and info on newly introduced varieties. There is so much misinformation out there that you really have to take the time to understand bananas and sort thru all the rubbish. With a name like "Musa Acuminata 'Tapo Chimera'", that itself instantly makes it appear not very reliable just based on the fact that the taxonomy of the supposed plant is all wrong. Granted bananas are a very complex and confusing group of plants to understand taxonomically, just looking at how their information is presented can say a lot about the validity of what they are selling and what they are calling the plant.
jeffreyp
10-23-2009, 03:41 AM
It is also technically regarded as a herbaceous plant (or 'herb'), not a tree...
damaclese
10-23-2009, 07:56 AM
here is that thread I was talking about after rereading it I'm not so sure it really says all that much but its one of the earlier ones so its interesting if only from a historical view plus it was presented before many of the stores started to get fuzzy
http://www.bananas.org/f16/check-out-these-two-new-banana-185.html
this is what Brian's botanicals has posted on his sales site i believe he is one of the first to ever offered the plant and had something to do with its original importation to the United stats
"Musa Siam Ruby is believed to be a seedling or possibly a mutation of the species Musa Tapo. This species grows in Papua New Guinea and is where this form was discovered. The plant was later sold to a collector in Thailand. The first few plants sold for $1,500.00 each. The plant is considered a chimera as well as an AA diploid. Most variegated plants are considered chimera and AA diploid meaning it has two sets of chromosomes.
I have seen photos of the plant grown to around 8 feet tall. I am not sure how tall it can get. I have not seen it flower, but as in most cases, Diploids produce smaller flowers than normal. I am not sure if this is the case with Musa Siam Ruby. The leaves are dark red in color with small spots of neon green. When young the leaves are usually bright yellow to green in color."
exovetek
10-23-2009, 08:52 AM
It is also technically regarded as a herbaceous plant (or 'herb'), not a tree...
Am I missing something? Who called it a tree?
(I'm not trying to be smart or anything, please don't take offense. I just thought that would be common knowledge on a forum like this)
I haven't looked at mine since the girls were there last month, so I thought that I'd take a look...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/porkpi/100_7871.jpg
I'm going to eat one now!
I knew if the girls got into it, it'd sprout plastic nanners :ha: :ha: :ha: :ha: !! Who knows?, some TyTy string bikinis & ya might even get Rhinohorns LOL!!
Not sure who called them trees but Jeff's right, they Are herbaceous plants and the nanners Are technically False Berries. Found that out when I was trying to study the genetic stuff (Very complicated, still trying to figure that part out).
About Central Florida Farms:
Ryboyer has a Definite point. The Dave's Garden watchdog has a lot on that. The following True Story is my experience with them:
Dad ordered a Ruby Siam banana plant for me, from Central Florida Farms, the spring before last. He paid using paypal. They gave a lot of strange excuses but the plant didn't get here till almost a year later (last spring). They sent an extra one and a Silver Streak ginger plant as an apology (I guess). The ginger did great but the Ruby Siams had brown speckling & streaks that looked about identical to photos I saw of yellow Sigatoka. I'm not a botonist (far from it) so I can't confirm that. I sprayed them with Cu twice & they're doing great now.
Anyway, I'm not sayin whether they're good or bad. This is just what happened when dad did business with them.
I tried to tell members about this before but 2 members got Very annoyed so I backed-off.
Gabe15, Thanx :) for getting in touch with your friend! I like growing seeded & seedless nanners so it'll be great to know, either way!
Ueberwinden
10-23-2009, 09:58 AM
I have Brian Williams Phone number and met with him this Spring, I'll let you know what he has to say about this Banana.
Michael
Nicolas Naranja
10-23-2009, 12:58 PM
I have no idea if what I had right outside my porch was a Siam Ruby or not, but it looked an awful lot like the pictures posted here. It produced red fruit. Unfortunately, the previous owners had left the plant in a very poor location and I had to remove it. But I do remember the red fruits on it.
LilRaverBoi
10-23-2009, 02:05 PM
I haven't looked at mine since the girls were there last month, so I thought that I'd take a look...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/porkpi/100_7871.jpg
I'm going to eat one now!
LOL...nice try! Thanks for playing....and now your parting gifts :ha::ha::ha:
That isn't even accurate anyway, the bananas are hanging down off the raceme instead of upward the way they do in reality. Pretty hilarious, though...not gonna lie!:ha:
My SR recently had spider mites....I've been spraying it pretty often with a couple insecticide sprays I have. I just looked today, and don't see any signs of creepy crawlies, but I'll def be keeping an eye out for those nasty little buggers!
Ueberwinden
10-23-2009, 06:55 PM
I tried calling Brian Williams sereral time today, sometimes he travels so maybe he's out of town. I left a message and will try again Monday.
Is there anything specific that we want to know about this variety other than does is flower and produce a fruit? I know there was discussion about it's origins, anything else?
Michael
damaclese
10-23-2009, 07:01 PM
I have no idea if what I had right outside my porch was a Siam Ruby or not, but it looked an awful lot like the pictures posted here. It produced red fruit. Unfortunately, the previous owners had left the plant in a very poor location and I had to remove it. But I do remember the red fruits on it.
wow did you get any pictures? i could belvie it had red fruit but you never know untill you see it mabe you have cout it inadvertintly in a picture of the house when you moved in or somthing like that
exovetek
10-23-2009, 07:21 PM
I tried calling Brian Williams sereral time today, sometimes he travels so maybe he's out of town. I left a message and will try again Monday.
Is there anything specific that we want to know about this variety other than does is flower and produce a fruit? I know there was discussion about it's origins, anything else?
Michael
Thanks Mike. If you have a chance to ask. A description of the fruit will be nice as well, particularly in the area of edibility.
Randy4ut
10-23-2009, 07:33 PM
here is that thread I was talking about after rereading it I'm not so sure it really says all that much but its one of the earlier ones so its interesting if only from a historical view plus it was presented before many of the stores started to get fuzzy
http://www.bananas.org/f16/check-out-these-two-new-banana-185.html
this is what Brian's botanicals has posted on his sales site i believe he is one of the first to ever offered the plant and had something to do with its original importation to the United stats
"Musa Siam Ruby is believed to be a seedling or possibly a mutation of the species Musa Tapo. This species grows in Papua New Guinea and is where this form was discovered. The plant was later sold to a collector in Thailand. The first few plants sold for $1,500.00 each. The plant is considered a chimera as well as an AA diploid. Most variegated plants are considered chimera and AA diploid meaning it has two sets of chromosomes.
I have seen photos of the plant grown to around 8 feet tall. I am not sure how tall it can get. I have not seen it flower, but as in most cases, Diploids produce smaller flowers than normal. I am not sure if this is the case with Musa Siam Ruby. The leaves are dark red in color with small spots of neon green. When young the leaves are usually bright yellow to green in color."
Paul,
Glad you were able to locate the thread as I remembered reading it last year and looked for it last night with little luck... Interesting to see how this banana started onto the scene 4 years ago and go from a very sought after banana to one that are occasionally available at big box stores. Thanks again for locating and reposting it!!! Great job!!!
Nicolas Naranja
10-24-2009, 05:20 PM
wow did you get any pictures? i could belvie it had red fruit but you never know untill you see it mabe you have cout it inadvertintly in a picture of the house when you moved in or somthing like that
You might be right because I did take some pictures of the house when I moved in. I just remember having to cut it down because the wind would blow the plant into the screen and we had a tropical storm or hurricane threatening.
planetrj
10-24-2009, 05:48 PM
Wow, those ripened right on the plant too! I wonder if the plant also naturally produced a Dole sticker on the bunch??? That would be some genetic engineering for sure!
hahaaa!!! I thought the best part is that they were hanging inverted/upside down on the plant..that was the funniest part for me....lol!!!
planetrj
10-24-2009, 05:56 PM
also noted about the crooked business... thanks!!
Last, just for the record... if anyone happens to call it a 'tree', I, for one am not going to be one bit upset and/or offended. I'm sure I've referred to it as a tree in casual conversation, so.....
damaclese
10-25-2009, 08:21 AM
Paul,
Glad you were able to locate the thread as I remembered reading it last year and looked for it last night with little luck... Interesting to see how this banana started onto the scene 4 years ago and go from a very sought after banana to one that are occasionally available at big box stores. Thanks again for locating and reposting it!!! Great job!!!
yes it is interesting when the first reports on the Siam came out you would have thought it was an international spy story the way people were acting "o i cant say" "O I'm sworn to secrecy and cant divulge that information" they made us wait for 2 years until it finally hit the sales rack before they would tell us any thing about it like it was the holy Grail of Banana Plants and then to top it of they introed it with out a clue as to what it really was or even if it fruited the stories of its fruiting are in my opinion just that story made up of plaint intrigue by people that are highly thought of but are to ego centric to admit the don't know whats what with this one and why hasn't a signal scientist done at least one gene study to see what its related to? its just odd any other Banana with Food potential would have been under the micro scoops in seconds flat and the sad part is even thou every one thinks its seeded we don't know for sure and what if this one is totally disease resistant to race 1 2 3 4 fusaram it could be but how would we ever know? sorry if that was a bit preachy LOL its funny how scientist and computer nerds act the same way isn't it
Nicolas Naranja
10-26-2009, 10:01 AM
Bad News...I went through the pictures I had taken at my house and unfortunately you can't see what I think was a Siam Ruby in the pictures. I used to have a lot of citrus trees that I have since cut down. It is amazing how much things have grown since I moved in there, and now I am leaving.
damaclese
10-26-2009, 12:29 PM
thanks any way it was worth a shot
Ueberwinden
10-27-2009, 03:16 PM
Spoke to Brian Williams this afternoon, this is what he had to say about the Siam Ruby. He had purchased two plants from a friend of his in Thailand, and Tony Avent had purchased one plant from a source. Tony's plant eventually died, but Brian got one of his into TC. His understanding is that it is a mutation from a edible fruit variety the 'Tapo'. He said it was either from Malaysia or Borneo, he has the location written down and is going to email some info. He also stated that the fruit was edible and red in color.
Michael
john_ny
10-27-2009, 06:05 PM
Wow, that's interesting. Anything that's purty, and can also produce edible fruit, is certainly welcome.
damaclese
10-27-2009, 08:11 PM
Spoke to Brian Williams this afternoon, this is what he had to say about the Siam Ruby. He had purchased two plants from a friend of his in Thailand, and Tony Avent had purchased one plant from a source. Tony's plant eventually died, but Brian got one of his into TC. His understanding is that it is a mutation from a edible fruit variety the 'Tapo'. He said it was either from Malaysia or Borneo, he has the location written down and is going to email some info. He also stated that the fruit was edible and red in color.
Michael
just to clarify he personally has seen it in flower and fruit? was this one of his plants or was it in its place of origin? we have to find out what this Musa Tapo is i asked Gabe he said he had never heard of it, so if he hasn't heard of it it has to be some sort of local name
wow this is the closest we have ever gotten to closing in on its origins ones we figure out what Musa Tapo is it will all be revealed and i am going to write a paper on it
PS can you get the exsact location of were it was growing in the wiald i hate to ask im sure Brian is a bisy man but its inportent to figuring out how to fruite it
damaclese
10-27-2009, 08:33 PM
if its from Borneo then I'm pretty sure i know how to fruit its Constant temps over 90 high humidity and a intensely wet rainy season fallowed by a pried of 3 to 4 months fairly dry weather but with high humidity clayish soils with high volcanic percipients I'm not sure if its acid but i would think so I'm going to go do some research and all get back to you all
sunfish
10-27-2009, 08:57 PM
http://www.bananas.org/f2/musa-tapo-1138.html#post7391
harveyc
10-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Maybe I should give it a shot with some 660 nm LED lights in my greenhouse :)
Ueberwinden
10-28-2009, 09:55 AM
Brian did not state that he had personally seen the banana flowering or in fruit, only that it was a genitic mutatation of a fruit bearing banana with red colored fruit which was edible and is called Musa Tapo. He also stated that the largest one he has seen in this region (he is in a zone 6) was ten feet. It seems unlikely that this variation of the Musa Tapo would not produce the same or very similar fruit. The deviation seems to be the leaf coloring alone.
Michael
NANAMAN
10-28-2009, 09:35 PM
I have my doubts if a Siam Ruby will ever fruit! The one I got a couple years ago, I planted in a friends yard. It was about 4' with several pups. We separated a couple pups and I noticed that none of them were attached to a main corm, like most fruiting bananas. The mother plants corm was very small!And the corm that each pup had was very small. That plant is still alive and has only grown about another foot, and has several more new pups. It is a very slow , slender, seemingly weak plant. I'm starting to wonder if it could even support the weight of a small bunch of fruit?
exovetek
10-28-2009, 10:11 PM
Excellent point. If grown in full sun like it should be, it should grow a thicker pseudostem. But even under those conditions, it just looks like a legy, wild banana. But then again, given that it's a slow grower, the pseudostem could be a lot stronger than it looks. Faster growing banana's may have thicker pseudostems, but softer tissue. Have faith my friend. An ant can carry ten to fifty times it's weight. ;0)
I have my doubts if a Siam Ruby will ever fruit! The one I got a couple years ago, I planted in a friends yard. It was about 4' with several pups. We separated a couple pups and I noticed that none of them were attached to a main corm, like most fruiting bananas. The mother plants corm was very small!And the corm that each pup had was very small. That plant is still alive and has only grown about another foot, and has several more new pups. It is a very slow , slender, seemingly weak plant. I'm starting to wonder if it could even support the weight of a small bunch of fruit?
exovetek
10-28-2009, 10:31 PM
Maybe I should give it a shot with some 660 nm LED lights in my greenhouse :)
What if it just reflects all that light away given it's red pigment? Or better yet, what if it reflects so much red light that it can't utilize enough to induce flowering? But honestly, I don't think Banana's are photoperiodic anyway. So they likely wont respond to the light. Constant exposure to the 660nm light might reduce the leggyness though.
damaclese
10-29-2009, 08:29 AM
my SR grows pretty darn fast it gets a new leaf ever 3 or 4 days but i feed it some prity powerful food along with some really good kelp extract i suspect that this plaint grows at some altitude in Borneo most of the island is a gigantic volcano encompassing over 70% of the third largest Island in the world by the way sunfish gave me the name of a org member that has a picture entitled Musa Tapo here it is
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=2424&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2424&what=allfields&name=Varig8&name=Varig8)
stumpy4700
10-29-2009, 10:16 AM
That looks like a SR
exovetek
10-29-2009, 12:31 PM
That looks like a SR
It does doesn't it? It looks to me like the green variegation is not as defined as sr's i've seen, but close. If Topo does bear edibel fruit and looks like this, sign me up for one. I think I'd like to ad Topo to my collection Just in case my SR never sets fruit.
damaclese
10-29-2009, 01:19 PM
it dose and it doesn't look like the SR the color apiaries more sutle to me and the leaf look slightly more pointed then what I'm use to but there are many lines of SR now that they are TC'ed way to much only the original owner of this picture could tell us for sure what it is maybe Gabe will chime in here I was under the impretion Tapo had green leafs and red fruit
LilRaverBoi
10-29-2009, 08:41 PM
That looks like a SR
Yeah, that was my thought.
damaclese
11-02-2009, 01:15 PM
OK heres some food for thought
Musa Tapo = Musa Zabrina
so if thats true then Siam Ruby is a mutation of Musa Zabrina this was suggested to me by some one under the name Musa Sumatra which is a name that didn't appear until 1880 the Zabrina designation was placed on this species in 1853 and if you look carefully at the Musa Zabrina its sorta color wise a exact opposite of Siam Ruby in other words if you reversed the green with red and the red with green they could be the same plant so what i think is the case here is that at sum point a mutation of the color gene happened leaving the pup with the exact opposite coloration
I'm certainly no expert but if you look at the over all plaint structure they look a grate deal alike and if its not a direct mutation i put forth that its closely related they come from the same Island Indonesia were as the claim that we have established in this thread is that Siam Ruby is from Borneo Musa Zabrina is from Indonesia its interesting don't you all think
OK don't rip me to shreds but i want your honist criticisms of this statement its still just conjecture based mostly in this Musa Sumatra pseudonym and reading arose the net on varieses botanical out lines Simmons did not address the Musa Sumatra in any in depth was but there have been many others id be willing to site them if necessary to defend the above hypothesis
Gabe15
11-02-2009, 01:41 PM
Musa acuminata subsp. zebrina and subsp. sumatrana are two different plants, but the horticulture industry has made them synonyms. Since 'Siam Ruby' has been named and studied purely from the horticulture industry, really any information out there on it cannot be trusted, especially since there are so many different stories about it that claim to be true. As it is, there are already about 6 or more different subspecies of M. acuminata in the nursery trade that are all called M. acuminata subsp. zebrina, subsp. sumatrana, Musa zebrina, Musa sumatrana, 'Rojo' etc....all these names are used as synonyms for 6 or more different plants. 'Siam Ruby' is so completely understudied that the only way to find out exactly what it is would be to flower it and describe it 2 times from the same plant (the second generation is whats normally used for characterization if available), and then have it compared genetically to other known forms of wild M. acuminata. Until that it is done, its really quite pointless to be trying to assign it a different name if it is indeed just a different color form of an already known plant. It could be a new species for all we know, the info is just not around right now.
damaclese
11-02-2009, 02:16 PM
Musa acuminata subsp. zebrina and subsp. sumatrana are two different plants, but the horticulture industry has made them synonyms. Since 'Siam Ruby' has been named and studied purely from the horticulture industry, really any information out there on it cannot be trusted, especially since there are so many different stories about it that claim to be true. As it is, there are already about 6 or more different subspecies of M. acuminata in the nursery trade that are all called M. acuminata subsp. zebrina, subsp. sumatrana, Musa zebrina, Musa sumatrana, 'Rojo' etc....all these names are used as synonyms for 6 or more different plants. 'Siam Ruby' is so completely understudied that the only way to find out exactly what it is would be to flower it and describe it 2 times from the same plant (the second generation is whats normally used for characterization if available), and then have it compared genetically to other known forms of wild M. acuminata. Until that it is done, its really quite pointless to be trying to assign it a different name if it is indeed just a different color form of an already known plant. It could be a new species for all we know, the info is just not around right now.
good points all of them im doing my best to flower it i have chenged my food regement for it and am keeping it above 90 day and 75 nights i just got two new leafs in the last 7 days that are unlike any iv had on this plaint befor they are quite a bit wider it could be that its finly entering in to a more mature faze any way i guess all give up on my surch untill we get it to flower but i still think its sum how related to all of the plants you brout up exset the Rojo isnt that a calamusa? all the storyes agea on one point that its a Acumanata related species
sandy0225
11-02-2009, 03:34 PM
That picture of a supposed Tapo looks like a thirsty siam ruby to me grown in very bright sun. That's exactly what mine looked like when it was in the hot greenhouse with no ventilation and no shade cloth. The leaves get pointy looking when the plant is grown hard.
damaclese
11-02-2009, 08:18 PM
I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine about this, who is a collector of variegated plants. He told me an interesting story about 'Siam Ruby,' and I don't think he would mind if I shared it with all of you, but I won't release his identity to respect his privacy:
"Here's the story behind it......A collector emailed me a photo of this banana 12 years ago which he had bought from a famous banana expert in the UK. I searched for all those years to find it, and it wasnt until 2 or 3 years ago that it showed up in Thailand where it was given to a Thai collector from another guy who collected it in the wild in Sumatra. I brought the first 2 plants into the US for $1000 each. BOTH of them died.........I asked him to bring me 2 more when he came to Miami again to the Fairchild plant sale, he did, I didnt show up to collect them until the last sale day and he had sold one of them to Brian Williams who turned around and put it into tissue culture................2 weeks ago I saw them at the local Home Depot garden center for $25 in a 7 gal size...............probably WAS the rarest banana on earth and he farmed them out for a quick buck. Oh well........Virtually no one really knows what this banana is, 'Siam Ruby' is just a label he tagged onto it>>BUT, I have a friend who works for the USDA and is head of the Musa germplasm center and did all of the genome information for the USDA in Puerto Rico. He told me that it is a sport of Musa Tapo and is the only known banana variety that is a tetraploid, all others either being diploid or triploid (seeded or edible). To my knowlege no one has ever seen it flower or fruit,which I think is very strange, but my friend says it should be a dessert banana and seedless."
thanks that is most interesting many aspects of what you have relayed here jive with what my research has told me is the real story and if your read all the post you will see that Brian indirectly threw another soars tells his side which dove tails in nicely with your story i did not know the USDA had done any testing can you get your friend at the USDA to send a note to us here at the org detailing the aspects of his research? or to send a addres on the web to the USDA paper out lining this study?
damaclese
11-03-2009, 09:38 AM
its been pointed out to me that perhaps my theory on Siam Ruby being a sport of Musa Zabrina comes off as sounding like its definitive in nature
I just wanted to clarify that this is not the case i was doing some reading on the net and wanted to present some of the research i did to you all for the purposes of stimulating this threads conversations no one should repeat any of it as if its fact it is just little bits of info i pieced to gather thats not to say that its not got any validity its just unproven that all so pleas don't quote me as a soars its going to take years to figure this out if it even can be but i don't discourage any one from trying to get to the Truth of the mater
AS THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE! keep up the good work people i love this stuff more then you will ever know keeps it all so interesting don't you think!?
good points all of them im doing my best to flower it i have chenged my food regement for it and am keeping it above 90 day and 75 nights i just got two new leafs in the last 7 days that are unlike any iv had on this plaint befor they are quite a bit wider it could be that its finly entering in to a more mature faze any way i guess all give up on my surch untill we get it to flower but i still think its sum how related to all of the plants you brout up exset the Rojo isnt that a calamusa? all the storyes agea on one point that its a Acumanata related species
Thanx Paul! Wish ya lots of luck getting a flower! Best I'll be able to do here is just keep them alive through the winter.
Great thread, guys! If this keeps up, we'll have the best info, on Ruby Siams, of anybody on the internet!
Btw, one of my Ruby Siams - that's been indoors for over a month now - recently unfurled a new leaf. The plant is very deep red But the new leaf, that had just started pushing up when I brought it in, is totally green - not even a trace of red.
Ueberwinden
11-13-2009, 12:33 PM
Clare,
I spoke to Brian myself and he purchased 2 siam ruby bananas, and in his defence he put one of them into TC because Tony lost his SR. I respect Tony but that's just poor form if he claims Brian is out for a quick buck. Brian has things he has been working on for a while now, and if it were for a quick buck he could have rushed them into production. Brian's move to preserve this banana is the main reason we have then now.
Michael
Richard
11-13-2009, 01:11 PM
... turned around and put it into tissue culture................2 weeks ago I saw them at the local Home Depot garden center for $25 in a 7 gal size...............probably WAS the rarest banana on earth and he farmed them out for a quick buck. ...
I agree this is poor form! 1st of all, there is nothing quick about tissue culture production -- its about 2 years to get a significant volume of plants. 2nd, I don't understand why anyone would object to a rare plant becoming a common plant! It sounds like the author has remorse over not making a profit himself. :D
Clare_CA
11-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Well, I'm sure no offense was intended. I think it was just a way of saying that something rare turned common. I know we are all glad it did so that we can own one. This was really a private email that I probably shouldn't have shared. I'll go delete it. If anyone who quoted me would delete my words, I would appreciate it.
Edited to add: Michael, I don't know who Tony is, but that isn't who I was quoting.
Ueberwinden
11-13-2009, 04:59 PM
Clare,
The first two Americans (at least noted) to have Musa Siam Ruby were Tony Avent, and Brian Williams. Tony lost his, they died. Brian hearing of Tony's loss went ahead and put one of his two into TC. Not much was known about this variety and a noted Nurseryman had lost one. I think that was a smart move myself. It would be nice if more time was spent on documenting this variety.
Richard,
Tony states in his book that sometimes rare plants shouldn't be mass produced. I believe his quote is: "Once a rare plant is propagated it isn't rare anymore."
Maybe now he might wish he had overlooked this idea for this one plant.
Michael
frondly
11-13-2009, 05:37 PM
I for one of many, am so glad to have SR on the market. I just wish someone would discover a red leaf nanner that is hardy enough for in ground planting.
I can only dream in zone 8...:bed:
Richard
11-13-2009, 06:06 PM
Tony states in his book that sometimes rare plants shouldn't be mass produced. I believe his quote is: "Once a rare plant is propagated it isn't rare anymore."
I can respect his personal convictions, but I cannot identify with the logic.
Ueberwinden
11-13-2009, 08:15 PM
Richard,
There is something about hoarding something of such beauty for personal satisfaction that is very wrong. Why not allow everyone to enjoy it and take credit for finding it. The royalties are nice too.
Michael
harveyc
07-24-2010, 12:56 AM
I have my doubts if a Siam Ruby will ever fruit! The one I got a couple years ago, I planted in a friends yard. It was about 4' with several pups. We separated a couple pups and I noticed that none of them were attached to a main corm, like most fruiting bananas. The mother plants corm was very small!And the corm that each pup had was very small. That plant is still alive and has only grown about another foot, and has several more new pups. It is a very slow , slender, seemingly weak plant. I'm starting to wonder if it could even support the weight of a small bunch of fruit?
Brian, are you still growing Siam Ruby? Any signs of it flowering? This plant was such a hot topic a couple of years ago and now we hardly hear about it. Sure would be nice to find one that has actually produced fruit!
Sailfish
07-26-2010, 01:34 PM
Too wierd.
I was just thinking what the progress was for anyone?
Any fruit? Flowers??
Mine hasn't done anything. However squirrels and the dog saw to it.
This year its about 3' now, so maybe something will happen
cherokee_greg
07-27-2010, 09:24 AM
I put mine back in the ground and it has a pup coming up first one ! Update two pups now !
sandy0225
07-28-2010, 08:44 PM
mine have had pups, lots of pups, but each year I seem to lose the mother plant to the ground. I've tried 60 degrees overwinter temp, 50 degrees and dry as a bone, and indoors (spider mite problems to the nth degree!) but no luck in keeping the mama plant. I wonder if daylength has anything to do with it along with heat? I could try the basement grow light on a heat mat for my next attempt so it would have 14 hour long days...I did keep a margarita overwinter with no problems though and it's supposed to be the all green sport of siam ruby. Has anyone flowered those yet?
LilRaverBoi
07-28-2010, 09:33 PM
Sandy, I had pretty much an identical story with my SR last winter. TONS of spider mites decimated it and the main plant died to the ground. It had two pups that took over (and one accidentally got broken off this summer, so I'm down to one) that took a while to get going. It isn't that spectacular this year, but still alive!
Sailfish
07-29-2010, 09:28 AM
I put mine back in the ground and it has a pup coming up first one ! Update two pups now !
Mine pups like a banshee. I break them off all the time.
I'm trying to keep all the ground, energy etc focused on the mama if I can.
Maybe thats the wrong thing, maybe it needs all the pups.
Not sure, but it pups like crazy, i'd end up with a stumpy bush I think.
I'm giving it a try in Costa Rica, but it's only a small clump right now. In this area of the country we have 7-8 months of rainy season followed by 4-5 months of dry weather. I planted it in a spot where it would get some supplemental watering during the dry season. I'll report back if it ever flowers.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34995&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34995&ppuser=43)
pineapplefarmerwannabe
07-29-2010, 09:05 PM
I'm giving it a try in Costa Rica, but it's only a small clump right now. In this area of the country we have 7-8 months of rainy season followed by 4-5 months of dry weather. I planted it in a spot where it would get some supplemental watering during the dry season. I'll report back if it ever flowers.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34995&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34995&ppuser=43)
PM me if you wanna see I looked you up and you within like 50 miles
Thanks Brian
harveyc
09-05-2010, 06:52 PM
Maybe this thread should get merged?
http://www.bananas.org/f2/siam-ruby-fruit-12460.html
ron_mcb
09-05-2010, 08:24 PM
i met a lady at a local nursery where she said they produced "sugar nanas" once. she didnt know anything about siam ruby or even the name untill i told her.... yeah im aware that no one has pictures of one fruiting. im not saying any fruiting story is true :nanadrink:
yeah im quoting myself.. i just thought i would include this so people wouldn't act like they were so lost. i wonder if i could talk this woman into trying to fruit two siam rubies at the same time to get them to pollinate. now i really believe her story since i know that fruiting them are possible now i should have a talk with her.
after all she seems to always have her greenhouse temp set so hot and humid when i walked in i could not breathe easily. if she does not have anymore siams maybe i could give her a few and see if she is willing to play ball.. i know this experiment can get expensive so i know i wont try it. would be interesting
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