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View Full Version : Are ALL these cold hardy?


Gardener972
05-13-2009, 01:13 PM
I just came across a website stating that these are cold hardy. Maybe their definition and mine are different of cold hardy. What do you think? Here are the zones they have associated with them too.
Darjeeling Banana Musa sikkimensis - Zone 6
Yunnan Banana Musa sp. "Yunnan" - Zone 6
Chinese Dwarf Banana Musella lasiocarpa - Zone 6
Velvet Banana Musa velutina - Zone 7
Giant Nepal Banana Ensete glaucum - Zone 7

lorax
05-13-2009, 01:38 PM
If you protect them adequately, then yes.

Jack Daw
05-13-2009, 03:49 PM
If you protect them adequately, then yes.
Rhizomes will survive, psuedostems probably not (less then -10°C - no help, pstems die out)...

Gardener972
05-13-2009, 04:56 PM
Would you put me onto a good learning site where I can learn what palms have psuedostems & what palms have rhizomes?

jack hagenaars
05-13-2009, 06:37 PM
I have tried both Yunnan and musella lasiocarpa.....Yunnan died two years after being protected and musella lasiocarpa 3 years...I am in zone 8...I would say no to those two...

just j
05-13-2009, 06:43 PM
Would you put me onto a good learning site where I can learn what palms have psuedostems & what palms have rhizomes?

none the travellers palm is the only one close but isnt really a palm

just j
05-13-2009, 06:47 PM
I have tried both Yunnan and musella lasiocarpa.....Yunnan died two years after being protected and musella lasiocarpa 3 years...I am in zone 8...I would say no to those two...

i disagree with this u didnt protect them good enough than cause musella i have had freeze bad with snow covering them and some leaves even made it without turning black and they came back asap stronger than ever the next year

jack hagenaars
05-13-2009, 07:48 PM
I muslched both of them in a cage full of oak leaves...the same treatment I use for the Basjoo...and voila...Dead,Dead,Dead!!!!!

Lagniappe
05-13-2009, 08:19 PM
They may have been too wet. Did you cover it to keep the rain out?

turtile
05-13-2009, 08:42 PM
Would you put me onto a good learning site where I can learn what palms have psuedostems & what palms have rhizomes?

A pseudostem is a fake stem that is made up of blades and sheathes. The rhizome is the real stem which is underground. None of the plants you've mentioned above are palms.

Bananas have corms (similar to rhizomes - an underground stem) and pseudostems.

just j
05-13-2009, 09:19 PM
yeah i was just gonna ask if they got wet i have had super luck with these no matter what i do they always come back unless i leave them out in zone 4-5 i even left mine out in a hard freeze and when i say that i mean -degrees and it was super hard to dig them out of the ground when the ground was frozen and mine bounched back i really didnt think it was gonna but it did luckly i have even heard stories of ppl covering them for winter with leaves and bags with the flower blooming and it was still in bloom when they uncovered it in fall

Jack Daw
05-14-2009, 07:43 AM
i disagree with this u didnt protect them good enough than cause musella i have had freeze bad with snow covering them and some leaves even made it without turning black and they came back asap stronger than ever the next year
Winters in Europe are none like those in USA, incomparable, I have to agree with Jack...

They may have been too wet. Did you cover it to keep the rain out?
Maybe, this is the most possible reason as the winters in Europe are famous for being wet (most parts of the Europe, there ARE exceptions)

yeah i was just gonna ask if they got wet i have had super luck with these no matter what i do they always come back unless i leave them out in zone 4-5 i even left mine out in a hard freeze and when i say that i mean -degrees and it was super hard to dig them out of the ground when the ground was frozen and mine bounched back i really didnt think it was gonna but it did luckly i have even heard stories of ppl covering them for winter with leaves and bags with the flower blooming and it was still in bloom when they uncovered it in fall
The truth is, that Musella lasiocarpa and Musa basjoo are considered the hardiest of all bananas. You can give it a try, but do not expect too much.

jack hagenaars
05-16-2009, 12:18 PM
When I mulch my bananas I also cover them with a big tarp to keep the rain and wind off the stems...but to no avail...and even my soil has excellent drainage and the whole yard is slightly on a very slight slope..also there is a fence around the entire yard to block some of the wind..so I have tried all the tricks necessary...but to no avail...the only other determination would be to find a better micro climate within the yard...but I figure if it is that borderline here,I wont bother...its just to heart breaking....so bajoo is my best and favorite banana for outside so far....unless of course...perhaps trying an ensente?

jack hagenaars
05-16-2009, 12:20 PM
Which Bananas are you growing in your zone Jack Daw?

Jack Daw
05-16-2009, 03:22 PM
Which Bananas are you growing in your zone Jack Daw?
For the time being, Cavendish type only (I generally want only edible cultivars), so the question of overwintering outside goes off for me. The only option remains to dig them up and store somewhere cool and safe. I will also try other varieties such as Dwarf Brazilian, Raja Puri, some Orinoco variants, when I get my hands on them...

I haven't tried basjoo or anything like that what-so-ever, the chances are always, that it won't survive (p-stem) and so the work goes right from the beginning.

eyefi
05-16-2009, 03:48 PM
i've always understood cold hardy to mean half hardy, in other words will withstand very very mild short frost. is that how it's used here?

Gardener972
05-17-2009, 12:18 AM
Jack Daw, do you grow Cavendish IN GROUND?

Gardener972
05-19-2009, 10:36 AM
Which bananas have pseudostems and which have corms?

Bananaman88
05-19-2009, 11:07 AM
Here is an easy way to think about it: The corm is the underground portion-the base of the pseudostem. The pseudostem is the portion from just above ground level up to where the lowest leaf is. Below is also a sketch done by Gabe that should help you with some of the terminology.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=326&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=326)

turtile
05-19-2009, 11:18 AM
Which bananas have pseudostems and which have corms?

All bananas have both.

Gardener972
05-19-2009, 04:03 PM
Ah... very helpful! Thanks!

RobG7aChattTN
05-23-2009, 08:30 PM
I haven't had any trouble with velutina or Musella lasiocarpa in my zone 7 winters without protection. Some years the M. lasiocarpa get killed above ground but will send up new pups. Basjoo does fine as did yunnanensis this last winter (pretty cold) and my 'Balboa', which is probbably a sikkimensis hybrid has come back for two winters now. I don't know of anyone around that has overwintered any Ensete in the ground. I've overwintered Orinocco and Raja Puri in the ground in the past but no fruit so I brought them in last winter.

bigdog
05-23-2009, 11:44 PM
Well, I had already pronounced my Musa velutina dead, when I noticed yesterday it has sent up 2 sprouts! My Musella lasiocarpa is growing back also, with no protection at all (and even part of the corm showing!). Musa yunnanensis is coming back very strong also. Musa sikkimensis is very cold hardy, and is growing also. The only one on your list that I would question is Ensete glaucum. It has come back for a friend in zone 8a a couple of times, but I've never had any luck in zone 7a with it.

Hey Rob, Randy overwintered E. ventricosum a few years back!

To add to the list, Musa itinerans is at least as cold hardy as Musa basjoo here.

Frank

saltydad
05-24-2009, 12:47 AM
My lasiocarpa was also declared dead when a tiny green leaf appeared at the side of the dead and wet p-stem 2 days ago. Still nothing from my sikkimensis; I think it failed the winter. Both had straw mulching.

Jack Daw
05-24-2009, 02:57 AM
Guys, do you have long or short winter. Is it wet or dry? Thanks for the replies. ;)

bigdog
05-24-2009, 09:21 AM
In Knoxville, it's a relatively short winter. First frost is around the last week in October, and last frost is usually the first week of April. We don't have very many days with a high below freezing, and even rarer is having two or more days in a row below freezing. That happened this winter, twice (2, 60 hour freezes).

Howard, don't give up on your Musa sikkimensis! Mine came up very late this year, several weeks behind 'Helen's Hybrid' even, but it did come back.

Frank

saltydad
05-24-2009, 12:39 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, Frank. It (the sikkim) just looks lousy. The remains of the p-stem are a concave brown wet mess. But I'm waiting with hope for it, as well as for my Butia eriospatha and Livistona chinensis palms. The Cavendish I was sent by a friend in Boca Raton will not be making an entrance this year, but I'm still leaving it alone for now. Hope springs eternal and all that stuff.

Jack, our winter was much colder this past year than for a number of years before, and we had almost no snow.

Jack Daw
05-24-2009, 01:31 PM
i've always understood cold hardy to mean half hardy, in other words will withstand very very mild short frost. is that how it's used here?
Cold means cold, whereas frost hardy is something totally different. Once the freezes come, cold hardy or not, it's bad.

modenacart
05-30-2009, 09:40 PM
I would think in Northern Dallas, TX you could grow them without trouble at all. I bet you could grow orinoco without protection and the stem stay alive and a few others too, but I could be wrong. I would pot a post in the main discussion area asking people if they have experience growing bananas in Dallas and see what types people grow and what luck they have.

Gardener972
05-30-2009, 10:46 PM
Good idea!

Tropicallvr
05-31-2009, 03:03 AM
I just came across a website stating that these are cold hardy. Maybe their definition and mine are different of cold hardy. What do you think? Here are the zones they have associated with them too.
Darjeeling Banana Musa sikkimensis - Zone 6
Yunnan Banana Musa sp. "Yunnan" - Zone 6
Chinese Dwarf Banana Musella lasiocarpa - Zone 6
Velvet Banana Musa velutina - Zone 7
Giant Nepal Banana Ensete glaucum - Zone 7

Ensete glaucum shouldn't be on any cold hardy list, but in the future there could be a cold hardy one collected from colder places/elevations. E.ventricosum is alot cold hardier, and tolerates cold wet winters better than the other Ensetes.