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MiamiAl
03-30-2009, 12:26 PM
My backyard construction is moving towards completion, and my bananas are getting ready to be planted (currently in pots) and was wondering about their water needs.

I know that they like steady watering, and was thinking that either they need a dedicated zone with drip lines, or possibly a good water retention system.

Has anyone done a "bog garden" with bananas? Digging up the entire area and putting a pond liner under the soil, possibly with a level of gravel before the soil? In this way, the area stays perpetually wet, just watering it as it dries out. It would keep the soil wet. I'd then only have about 12 inches of soil under the bananas.

Would that over water them or work well without constantly watering them?

D_&_T
03-30-2009, 12:52 PM
Have seen photos of ones growing close to creeks posted on here believe by Gabe, otherwise I'm not sure.

Patty in Wisc
03-30-2009, 01:43 PM
They don't like "wet feet" or the corm can rot. But then, I recently saw a pic of one actually in a pond! So now I don't know what to say! ???

alpha010
03-30-2009, 02:08 PM
If you look at things the way Hydroponics work with ebb and flow, the water never just "sits" it is flowing. And, if I take an educated step back and look at it, rot comes from "standing" or water log since the water has time to sit and develop the bacteria and fungii that actually rot roots and bulbs. But if you constantly run water over it nothing has a chance to stay on the roots and will get washed away. Sounds interesting as long as you have a pump under the dirt to constantly circulate the water from bottom to top and otherwise, I think it could work..........but still semi-doubtful.

Shaggy

Patty in Wisc
03-30-2009, 02:22 PM
Shaggy is right about the water circulating. I think your idea of keeping the soil wet of only 12 inches will rot the corm. Nannas need well draining soil. 12 inches is not deep enough.

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 02:29 PM
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/PHPong/100_2299.jpg

alpha010
03-30-2009, 02:47 PM
Ok first off miss vick, what cultivar, second, does the water circulate at root ball depth? Very impressive, very, very Impressive!

Michael_Andrew
03-30-2009, 02:52 PM
I think we have to open this up for discussion. I saw you post this pic the other day and it really surprised me. It goes pretty much against everything I've learned here about watering bananas. You said you have to train the banana to grow in water? How do you train it? Is the pond water pumped through a filter or aerated? What really gets me is you said you overwintered it in the basement sitting in water! OMG! I need more input! This doesn't compute!

thanks,

Michael

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 05:23 PM
I know Michael and Alpha this sounds crazy. I bought it at a huge greenhouse. It was in water with the water garden plants. It had no tag as to the kind of banana it is. I asked them and they said they thought it was Dwarf Cavendish. The pond it is in has no filtration except a small solar pump that only dribbles . It does not purify anything. Only puts a little air in the water. The banana is in a pot of dirt. The bannana is in my basement in a tub of water. It was there the winter of 2007-2008. To make a canna be able to grow in water you start by putting it in a saucer of water. Then slowly over time to raise the water level untill it is over the top of the pot. I have done this before. I imagine some cannas just might not live and some might do better. I am going to the basement to take a picture of the banana. I will post it.

Patty in Wisc
03-30-2009, 05:36 PM
I have a pond & the thought NEVER crossed my mind. I am so careful not to overwater in winter, and to think that Vickie puts her nanna in water in the basement just .."does not compute" (quote from Michael).

Michael_Andrew
03-30-2009, 05:38 PM
Well I think its a Zebrina. Is it red/redish on the bottom of the leaves? My cavendish started out with red sploches but went away as it got older. It looks like your was green and got red as it put on new leaves.

This site list basjoo and zebrina for bogs:
Banana Plants for Bog Gardens: Two That Work Well (http://bogs-marshes.suite101.com/article.cfm/banana_plants_for_bog_gardens)

Michael

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 05:40 PM
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/PHPong/100_2811.jpg

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 05:49 PM
You can see it has lost some of its color. It is not in brite light. I am leaving it alone not cutting off old leaves. It stays about 60* F in my basement. I have many plants down there.There is Gambusi ( mosquito fish ) in the water. It seems healthy enough. But I notice there is never a pup on this banana, maybe because it is under stress. I imagine when I put it back outside it will come to life again like it did last summer. I first saw these bananas on a water garden tour in 2007. That is when I started hunting it down. I only paid about $12.00 for it. So it was a steal. This summer I might try to see if I can do this with another banana. But the banana cannot be put deep in the water. Only a couple of inches over the pot. Anyone else wanting to try this?

Patty in Wisc
03-30-2009, 05:50 PM
Amazing. Is that a bucket of water it's sitting in?

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 05:53 PM
No it is a tub. I am posting a blurry pic but it shows the water better.

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 05:54 PM
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/PHPong/100_2808.jpg

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 06:07 PM
Patty all the other bananas in my basment are not overwatered. They would rot. I know from experience.

Michael_Andrew
03-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Darn Patty don't you know your buckets from your tubs? lol

Lagniappe
03-30-2009, 07:37 PM
Vickie has a basic aquaponic system going there. As long as the water is aerated, and has a nutrient source (fish waste or water soluble ferts), one can just throw a banana right in (as long as the ph is not too extreme on either end of the scale).
It's the anaerobic microbes that contribute to rot (usually).

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 07:42 PM
Well I think we should try another banana in water this spring. I will use one of my philippine ones. I will start with it setting in about an inch of water planted in dirt. And slowly raise the water level over the summer. If it dies I have plenty more of that one.

lorax
03-30-2009, 07:43 PM
Well, given that escapee bananas here tend to gravitate towards the boggiest ground available, and our native heliconias are always most abundant there, I'd say you're probably heading in the right direction, Al. Just make sure your water never goes stagnant. Here, the highest density of Zingiberales is in the swampy ground right next to creekbeds - lots of aeration, fish wastes, and water up the wazoo.

Vicki - I'd guess that you don't have pups yet because the plant isn't big enough. If it is a DC (and it sure looks like one) then in my experience it won't start pupping until it's about 4' tall.

Lagniappe
03-30-2009, 07:47 PM
Well I think we should try another banana in water this spring. I will use one of my philippine ones. I will start with it setting in about an inch of water planted in dirt. And slowly raise the water level over the summer. If it dies I have plenty more of that one.

I want to do it too. I have several that I plan to put in systems but I've been goofing around with tomatoes and basil.
Thanks for the pics...I'm getting fired up again!

Michael_Andrew
03-30-2009, 07:50 PM
Ok so she has a fish in the tub and it feeds the plant. The plant removed the toxins for the fish. Kinda scratch my back I'll scratch yours. Ms Vickie do you have a bubbler in there? Do you chang out any of the water?

bananimal
03-30-2009, 08:05 PM
MiamiAl,

If you have a canal bordering the property this is the ideal area for planting bananas in So Fla. Plant them on the crest of the down slope and the roots will reach the water. Jeffery P does this at his place and the results are fantastic. His Saba are huge and all the others are very robust. Since you are in Miami you will see great results. Just apply the fert - suggest Lesco 8-2-12 four times a year at 3 or 4 pounds per application. You will be amazed.

Otherwise provide irrigation with 1" poly, not 1/2", with emitters rated at 5 to 7 gals of water per hour, 2 lines from the main with a "tee" to 2 emitters. That's 4 emitters per mat spraying towards the trunk , 90 degrees apart on a irrigation controller system.

Wish I was down there, my Uncle Frank had fantastic banana mats in SW Miami.

Dan

Michael_Andrew
03-30-2009, 08:17 PM
Well I think its a Zebrina. Is it red/redish on the bottom of the leaves? My cavendish started out with red sploches but went away as it got older. It looks like your was green and got red as it put on new leaves.

This site list basjoo and zebrina for bogs:
Banana Plants for Bog Gardens: Two That Work Well (http://bogs-marshes.suite101.com/article.cfm/banana_plants_for_bog_gardens)

Michael

I said Zebrina cause none of my DC's have red on the stem. But after further review I agree with Lorax that it appears to be a DC.

Vickie H.
03-30-2009, 09:15 PM
No air in the tub in the basment. No water change. I only add water when needed. I am doing everyting wrong and it still keeps on ticking. I have had it since summer of 2007 and it has not grown much. But it is alive and that is all I care about. LOL I have fish in all ponds. I have Gambusi in every pond and tub. They gobble up the mosquito larve. I have 18 inch koi in some ponds. But they uproot plants so cannot put much in with them.

lorax
03-30-2009, 10:52 PM
If I may make a suggestion, Vickie, next summer try putting a single male Beta and about five females in along with your Gambusi. They'll take care of the larger bugs like horseflies. Besides which, they're purdy.

Vickie H.
03-31-2009, 07:01 AM
lorax I have tried that. But since I put the banana in a 600 gallon pond when it comes time I cannot catch the beta to bring back into the basement. I hate things dying. I have a gazillion micky mouse platies because stupid me thought I would try 3 of them. Now I have hundreds. And no end in site.

Bob
03-31-2009, 07:44 AM
Vickie, I used to have the same thing when stocking my old koi pond. I'd put a couple of orange and black sword tails in for extra color and by fall it would be full of young'ens for my arrowana, Could never get them all out and hated the thought of their freezing..

lorax
03-31-2009, 10:05 AM
Hated the thought of their freezing and yet you were feeding them to an arrowana? Those things are pure, distilled evil.

I had an arrowana jump out of a river and INTO my canoe after a piranha I'd caught myself for dinner. I almost capsized from the force of the fish's landing, I lost my dinner and had to go downriver and try fishing it again, and the dang thing tried for a couple of my fingers while I was chucking it back overboard. Yeesh.

Bob
03-31-2009, 10:52 AM
Must have been a huge one. Mine only got to about 5lbs before I gave him away in favor of a red tailed catfish(another brilliant choice). I'm glad it didn't get your fingers, with those bony mouths of theirs that would be bad.

lorax
03-31-2009, 11:45 AM
It was about 20lbs.

Bananaman88
03-31-2009, 12:08 PM
Arowanas and red-tailed catfish! Two awesome fish, but one's I've managed to show some restraint on so far.

Why am I not surprised that Beth goes actively looking for piranahs??? Actually, they are a very misunderstood fish.

lorax
03-31-2009, 12:26 PM
Very misunderstood and extremely tasty, IMHO. I prefer the red-bellied ones, which get to about 3 lbs on average, but black piranha isn't bad either. They're really really difficult to hook, though. You have to use steel leaders.

Arrowana are good eating, too, but they're a protected species here so I wasn't about to conk the one that jumped in my boat with a paddle. I like my liberty, thank you!

Bob
03-31-2009, 12:33 PM
Yep they're tasty alright. We had a fish farm raising pacu up here when the tilapia craze first hit. Well the Pacu didn't pan out and they gave them all away to anyone with a cooler. I was eating them for months. Good stuff.:lurk:

john_ny
03-31-2009, 02:09 PM
Caught some black pianha in Guyana, on my honeymoon.

lorax
03-31-2009, 04:13 PM
I love how this thread has ceased to be about submerged bananas, and become about the finer points of carniverous fishes.

Ueberwinden
03-31-2009, 04:51 PM
As for the banana grown in water, some plants are able to grow water roots. The problem is converting them back to being able to grow in dry soil conditions. My experience is you have to allow the soil to dry out over a period of time (days). As you head to dry conditions the soil must slowly loose it's moisture. In other words it goes from saturated to wet to moist to damp and so on, but this is done over a period of days. I have had to do this with hard to root plants in water, some times I loose track of them and they continue to root. When I finally notice they sometimes have very large root systems.

Michael

sandy0225
03-31-2009, 05:58 PM
I grew a bordelon for a couple of years, potted and then when it got rootbound I set it into the pond display in about a foot of water. But last fall, I forgot and left it sitting out there and just threw it away the other day. The funny part is that a canna I left out there is actually ok. They are zone 7 hardy. Maybe I'll try a basjoo this year?

john_ny
03-31-2009, 06:12 PM
Beth - Don't most of the threads veer somewhat off course, as they get older? Sometimes it's good. other times it's not.

Chironex
03-31-2009, 07:17 PM
Next it will mutate into a thread about carnivorous bananas!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14356&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14356&ppuser=2761)

Patty in Wisc
04-01-2009, 10:10 AM
Hey, I posted that pic on a thread that Momoese started a couple weeks ago.

Chironex
04-01-2009, 12:10 PM
Hey, I posted that pic on a thread that Momoese started a couple weeks ago.

Sorry Patty, it has been in my gallery since October 23, 2008. I posted it somewhere in here back then. I think I found it on an Asian banana site.

Vickie H.
04-01-2009, 02:04 PM
I think we should be able to touch on other topics in these threads. Everyone is friendly here so we just are talking. I do not get upset if the topic wanders. LOL

lorax
04-01-2009, 02:37 PM
LOL, you don't know the capacity of myself, Scot, and Tog to derail threads. One time we went from regional cultivars to recipes for Ecuadorean wild game and wine selection!

Chironex
04-01-2009, 07:06 PM
Vickie, thanks for being a good sport! We thread-hijacker/terrorists mean no harm, just whimsical and often tangential senses of humor - and perhaps short attention spans - at least in my case.

island cassie
04-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Well - this thread ties in well with our experiences here this winter. We have had constant rain since November and the low lying areas of the garden have been such a bog that the grass has all died. Added to which, this is where the pool pumps out into, and which we have just emptied for repainting. So the area has been between soggy and under 4 inches of water for months. In this area I have a dwarf cavendish, unknown ladyfinger, blue java and dwarf orinoco, and they are all flourishing with no rot at all and are starting to flower. Soon the ground will dry out to a hard caked consistancy (horrible shale) but the bananas seem very resilient and tolerant. It has been a very cold winter too (for here).

Chironex
04-01-2009, 09:01 PM
Arrowana are good eating, too, but they're a protected species here so I wasn't about to conk the one that jumped in my boat with a paddle. I like my liberty, thank you!

Remember this chant from the flower children of the late 60's-early 70's?
"Make arrowana legal!
Make arrowana legal!
Make arrowana legal!"

Brings back memories.

lorax
04-01-2009, 10:37 PM
Remember the late 60's-early 70's?

Wasn't born yet. Too bad for me, huh?

Lagniappe
04-01-2009, 10:57 PM
Remember this chant from the flower children of the late 60's-early 70's?
"Make arrowana legal!
Make arrowana legal!
Make arrowana legal!"

Brings back memories.

Say, didn't they legalize medicinal Arowana? As a traditional treatment for glaucoma, perhaps? :ha:

lorax
04-01-2009, 11:20 PM
Nah, it's to help stimulate the appetite.

Moonshiner
04-01-2009, 11:35 PM
Nah, it's to help stimulate the appetite.


MORE SUGAR!

Chironex
04-01-2009, 11:45 PM
Medicinal use can cause short-term

mskitty38583
04-02-2009, 02:11 AM
hahahahaha...great one scot!

Lagniappe
04-02-2009, 06:08 AM
Some may consider it a 'gateway' fish, one which leads to the angling of larger, more dangerous fishes.

I've thought up several designs for hydroponic banana planters and all would be great.....for a greenhouse. The problem is I can't figure out how to keep the rains from diluting my nutrients or overflowing the whole system outdoors. I've considered a layer of plastic over the pot which the banana grows through. Any suggestions?

lorax
04-02-2009, 09:17 AM
A system like what you'd use to keep squirrels off - namely a metal collar with a round shield on it, that attaches to the pstem and covers the pot like a brolly - should work dandy. And keep pests out of the tree at least a little bit.

Like this, but for trees. (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000AF6L4E.01-A9P1KZBSDQIPK.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

bepah
04-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Time for an experiment!

I'll put one of my IC pups in the water garden and see what happens.

My water garden essentially is a nitrate trap for my Koi pond, in order to limit the amount of algae growth....

The question is...should I wait for the growth to begin before I put it in the water or go for it right now?

momoese
04-02-2009, 10:40 AM
Time for an experiment!

I'll put one of my IC pups in the water garden and see what happens.

My water garden essentially is a nitrate trap for my Koi pond, in order to limit the amount of algae growth....

The question is...should I wait for the growth to begin before I put it in the water or go for it right now?

I would wait for some rapid growth before giving it cement boots.

Vickie H.
04-02-2009, 10:41 AM
I really think you need to get it used to being real wet. I think you need to start it withy an inch or so of water in a saucer. Then gradually raise the water level over weeks. Eventually have the water over the top of the pot. This is the way you get cannas used to being water cannas. I have cannas in the basement in water over the winter too. Once they are used to being in water I keep them in water just like my water banana. Just my two cents worth.

Tog Tan
04-04-2009, 10:50 AM
Musa acuminata subsp malaccensis seedling growing in a shallow stream.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16425><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=16425&size=1 border=0></a>

Ok folks, some observations from me;

I have seen the species Musa acuminata subsp malaccensis and Musa violascens growing in shallow water areas, creeks and beside rivers right at the edge. So this means that their roots are wet all the time.

Besides them, many local cultivars which got loose can be found growing in the drainage areas slightly submerged. Many are found in the big monsoon drains in the village areas and are of exceptional size.

However, I have not seen any growing in the middle of a pond or in water deeper than 2 feet submerged.

I feel as long as the plant is in strong growth condition, it will easily adapt to a wet life.

Post script; the hijack of this thread was not fully successful as I was not notified. Terrorist cannot terrorise with terrorism if they are not united. So Lorax, Scot, PM me the next time with just the code : threadwreck/(thread link) and I will be there immediately.

Chironex
04-04-2009, 11:41 AM
Post script; the hijack of this thread was not fully successful as I was not notified. Terrorist cannot terrorise with terrorism if they are not united. So Lorax, Scot, PM me the next time with just the code : threadwreck/(thread link) and I will be there immediately.

I'm in!

lorax
04-04-2009, 01:20 PM
Sure!