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harveyc
03-23-2009, 11:37 AM
Our member Joe Real is working with a friend in distributing this product in the U.S. I bought a sample in January and just started using it. Benny has been using it a bit longer and made some very positive comments in his "what did you graft today" thread.

AZ41 (http://www.greenerearthtech.com/cmsmain/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=60)

I may do an informal trial with some of my TC plants to arrive from Richard soon.

Harvey

bencelest
03-23-2009, 12:46 PM
Oh, boy!! I am sold on this one!
I've been using SO many insecticides, fungicides,soaps and oils in the past and none, I repeat none is as effective as this one.
As to date, I don't see a single aphid, and powdery mildew in my apples and citrus.
Joe, told me when I bought a gallon from him 3 weeks ago, that will supply me for the whole year!!
But last week I bought another gallon for one as reserve. Because I've seen it works!!!!
It is the first time in my life I am 100% satisfied.
It is also the first time I've been able to grow a very healthy rose. Gosh, the leaves are so clean and free from blemishes and so green. I just planted it Jan or Feb bare root and now it is full of leaves and each branch has a flower bud.
I had given up growing roses long time ago. It's good that Home depot had a 50% reduction on their bare roots I was tempted to buy.
At this time when the white and green aphids are prolific distorting the leaves of my plants, this time I can not find any.
I've been inspecting my matured Fuji and citrus and I don't see a single aphids on the new buds. And there are millions of them sprouting.
At this time of the year, year after year, the powdery mildew attack my fujis distorting practically every leaf.
But now, I don't see a single leaf contaminated by powdery mildew.
So is my Italian prunes. Every year it was attacked by aphids, all the leaves turned black and fell off and I never got any descent harvest. Now, I don't see a single leaf infested. All are green and full of healthy flowers.
I can go on and on but I am just happy I got it.
If I'll give a grade to it I'd give it an A+
The rest are failing marks.

momoese
03-23-2009, 03:34 PM
I'm looking for something to spray in all my garden, lawn and drive way areas to kill adult fleas and flea larvae. Would this work for that?

harveyc
03-23-2009, 03:59 PM
Joe hasn't mentioned that to me, but I'll let him know about this thread I started and he can address it to the extent he is able.

momoese
03-23-2009, 04:25 PM
I also contacted the company directly with the question. We'll see what they say.

JoeReal
03-23-2009, 05:34 PM
I'm looking for something to spray in all my garden, lawn and drive way areas to kill adult fleas and flea larvae. Would this work for that?

Hi Momoese!

We don't have specific studies with respect to fleas. The only way to find out right now is to try it on your garden.AZ41 is registered as an organic foliar fertilizer blend both with the USDA and CDFA.

As to its insecticidal, nematicidal, and fungicidal properties, we cannot claim them and put into writing. You can, however, look at other testimonials and reports by other users of the product as to what properties they have observed, and you can try it and see for yourself.

AZ41 is meant to be used as foliar fertilizer and so you apply them regularly. It will make your plants very healthy along with some of your current nutrition and protection program. If you use AZ41 early in the season during the start of the growth flushes, it tremendously help produce clean, healthy crops, and you will have more blemish-free products, from vegetables to fruits to roses. It is excellent to use on bananas.

It is indeed very effective and would be excellent for a lot of hobbyists with indoor and outdoor plants and many farmers who pioneered testing the products are repeat customers.

The AZ41 product is made from 100% plant extracts, no part of it is toxic to humans when used as directed. It is made from melaleuca, aloe vera and citrus peels. It is a very efficient foliar fertilizer supplement that has macro and micro nutrients, vitamins and hormones, polysaccharides, saponins, acetylmannan, etc.

If product is this good, I might as well suggest it for use by hobbyists, and I am helping the company steer into the direction of supporting the hobbyists as well. The company used to sell only to farmers, and the minimum order is 100 bottles (which is $5,000 delivered). Now I got the board to let hobbyists access this product as well and will be supporting more in that direction with smaller bottles geared for hobbyists and home growers. We will have better directions on its usage pretty soon in our brochures. Most of our existing directions of use are amount per acre and bottles per 500 gallon tanks! Being a fellow member in this forum, I am requesting our board to approve some promotional code sometime to give fellow members here nice discounts when they order the products. But it could take a couple of months before approval and implementation.

We don't want you take my word for all of this, as I used to be very skeptical of this product and have tested it myself heavily in various trials all over major continents, and am encouraging fellow forum members here to have an open mind to test it themselves.

Here's some information about this product: AZ Agri Products Corporation - Home (http://www.AZ41.com)

And here's our company's official website: Greener Earth Tech, Inc (http://www.GreenerEarthTech.com)


Shoot me a PM for those interested to try the smaller bottle version of the product as the smaller bottles are not yet published for sale nor has been approved by the board.


Regards,

Joe

momoese
03-23-2009, 06:53 PM
Thanks Joe, I replied to your email.

saltydad
03-23-2009, 07:28 PM
Joe- As many of my nanas are planted around my pond which contains fish and hardy and tropical plants, what is the effect on aquatics? I noted it has copper in it, which worried me about spraying near the pond. Thanks.

Richard
03-23-2009, 08:35 PM
The website store lists $49.95 for a two-liter bottle. This is a ridiculous price. I can obtain a surprisingly equivalent product from Grow More and sell it for $10.85 with a 100% profit.

JoeReal
03-23-2009, 09:20 PM
The website store lists $49.95 for a two-liter bottle. This is a ridiculous price. I can obtain a surprisingly equivalent product from Grow More and sell it for $10.85 with a 100% profit.

Richard,

Unlike Grow More products, we are not selling and shipping a lot of water, but super concentrate. One 8-ounce bottle will make 32 gallons. And our 2-liter bottle would make anywhere from 250 to 1,000 gallons mixture. Depending on crop and timing of application.

The price per bottle of the product doesn't count at all. How does it affect your bottom line and your health is what counts. Wow much do you spend all in all when you use the product, how much you will save by eliminating the other products, and how much will you get from additional yield and better prices for better quality products. And based on that, you can decide if you will become a repeat customer.

Many farms have various needs, different situations, different local problems. The typical product cost of AZ41 application could be as low as $5/acre, as an additive to their existing spray program. Total application cost would be between $10 to $300 per acre depending on type of crop and problems, but it would save the farmers their health which is priceless, and the use of expensive toxic chemicals which can run anywhere from $150 to $1,500 per acre with no added yield benefits, only to maintain yield or close to it.

For example, one of the pioneering farmers in Caruthers have improved yield of 25% on the average and he got better prices for better quality raisins when using this product. Although he spent $3,000 on AZ41 for the 40 acre farm, he saved $12,000 by not buying most of the toxic chemicals that he normally uses, and his added income came to be about $24,000 from the 40 acre farm. He's been a very loyal customer and is spreading the word to other farmers and especially to other member growers going into the same packing facility as they were surprised at the excellent quality of his raisins. He has completed CCOF certification and would be able to sell his raisin grapes as organic product for a much better price next year.

We know that local mileage could vary. The best way is to test the product and follow closely how it is to be used and tested even in small scale and try to see if you get the direct crop benefits. Then weigh it together with how safe the product is to you, to the environment and to the consumer of your produce.

Joe

JoeReal
03-23-2009, 09:56 PM
Joe- As many of my nanas are planted around my pond which contains fish and hardy and tropical plants, what is the effect on aquatics? I noted it has copper in it, which worried me about spraying near the pond. Thanks.

SaltyDad,

We noted that it is INCOMPATIBLE with copper-based products and AZ41 itself has no significant amount of copper to cause havoc on aquatic life. AZ41 has only trace contents in the ppm region, then you dilute it 250 to 1000 times . We have other products specifically for aquatic ponds with fishes, but that will come later after we have finished running through the hoops of registration.

We recommend NOT to mix any copper containing product during the spraying because it can render both products, AZ41 and the copper-based product, ineffective.

One excellent property of AZ41 is that it has sticker properties because of its saponnins, a natural surfactant that breaks the surface tension of water and is able to wet even between the "hairs" of tomatoes and eggplants. Having a sticker property, you can mix it with other foliar fertilizers at the same time and there is no need for you to add sticker chemicals. It will then be absorbed by the plants quickly, like if you apply them 2 to 4 hours ahead of the rain, and the plant stomates are open, then, even if it rains afterwards, there is no need to worry as it has been absorbed, together with the foliar fertilizers that you mix together with it.

Most foliar fertilizers have only traces of copper, so it is not a problem mixing with other foliar fertilizers. What AZ41 is incompatible with are copper hydroxide such as Kocide, and copper sulfate such as those of the blue-colored fungicides. It would render the solution ineffective if you mix them together.

Copper based products are also known to cause fatal reactions on sheep. Copper sulfate for example are generally safe for humans and mammals, and I regularly swim in it in most swimming pools, but the copper are not good for sheeps and aquatic vegetation. AZ41 when used as directed has only very few traces of copper, equal to that normally found in the environment.


Joe

Richard
03-23-2009, 10:06 PM
Richard,

I'd be glad to compare its performance with Grow More. The ridiculous price is because it is a super-concentrate where the dilution ranged from 1:250 to 1:1000 depending on crop and timing of application.


Joe,

I was going on the concentration listed here: http://www.greenerearthtech.com/cmsmain/images/stories/pdfs/guaranteedanalysisaz41.pdf
Is it the same in the two-liter product?

harveyc
03-23-2009, 10:19 PM
Richard, instead of just making a comment without any supporting information, it would be much helpful to others if you'd provide a link to the Grow More you're speaking of.

harveyc
03-23-2009, 10:26 PM
Oh, and at least some general field trial information would also be very useful for a meaningful comparison, as well as any personal experiences.

Thanks,

Harvey

Richard
03-23-2009, 10:39 PM
Harvey,

The only thing I'm comparing to is the product specifications listed here:
http://www.greenerearthtech.com/cmsmain/images/stories/pdfs/guaranteedanalysisaz41.pdf
As you know, fertilizer manufacturers have traditional retail products they sell to the public but for the Ag industry: they have several sets of base, conditioning, nutrient, and pesticide packages which can be combined to meet a particular agricultural or product need. These custom combinations are typically sold high-volume containers unless the order is in large enough quantities to merit bottling it in smaller (e.g., gallon, 2-liter, quart) sizes. So for example, the exotic liquid fertilizers that pot farmers buy are really just re-packaged Grow More or Scotts products at an exorbitant price.
Looking at the analysis of AZ41, I see this can be met with 2 base packages plus 2 nutrient packages currently available from Grow More and probably several other manufacturers.

JoeReal
03-23-2009, 11:02 PM
Joe,

I was going on the concentration listed here: http://www.greenerearthtech.com/cmsmain/images/stories/pdfs/guaranteedanalysisaz41.pdf
Is it the same in the two-liter product?

The guaranteed analysis is required by the USDA for all foliar fertilizers. So it is a report format that does no justice if you will use AZ41 based on that analysis alone for the entire crop's nutrition program. That's the analysis of the concentrate. The major ingredients are Melaleuca oil, Aloe vera gel extracts, and Citrus peels. Plus just the smallest amount of deionized water needed to make the product 100% water soluble when mixed. Most of the macro, micro, and phytonutrients come from the Aloe vera extracts, and we know very well that oils from Melaleuca and citrus peels has practically no nutrient value, but it has the antifungal, antimicrobial, nematicidal, and insecticidal properties. The oils also keeps the fruits and leaves clean and shiny. The Aloe vera extracts contain the macro and micronutrients, vitamins, acetylmannan and other phytohormones that enhances the plant's resistance to pests and diseases. The Aloe vera gel also has saponnins that gives it a sticker property to enable mixing with other foliar fertilizers without needing to use sticker chemicals.

We recommend the use of AZ41 along with your normal nutrition program, like mixing with your regular foliar fertilizers, and then forego the application of all nematicides, fungicides and insecticides. Sometimes, if the soil is naturally rich and will require only AZ41. AZ41 encourages fertilizer use efficiency, provides vitamins and phytohormones to make better use of what nutrients your plant gets. It also boosts the plant resistance to diseases and insect damages.

When we work with farmers who have several thousand acre farm land, we provide free technical services to help them with their nutrition and crop protection program. These are the farmers who order thousand bottles per year. And we send over botanists and agriculturists to talk with their counterparts in the farm. We conduct side by side trials if they are skeptical at first. Then we help them troubleshoot as some problems come up.

We are working with a Napa grape wine grower and have very nice initial results. There was no need for him to apply fertilizer, we send our team to diagnose his fields and make recommendations on how to adjust the nutrition program. The complete eradication of sulfur-based and copper-based fungicides reduces formation of H2S in wine making, giving back the natural grape aroma without some rotten smell from sulfur.

It was my work with these farmers last year and along with the wonderful technical team of Greener Earth Tech that I convinced the company to extend its arms towards the hobbyists, as I know it would be useful for the likes of us, being a hobbyist myself.

So to use AZ41, consider what it all does in totality and how it improves the bottom line of the farmers, and we usually talk about costing.

Due to AZ41's imparting of Systemic Acquired Resistance (SAR), we are now working on a derivative product that will synergistically increase the effects of SAR to help combat the dreaded Greening diseases of citruses. We will be marketing it as AZGreen, and we have very promising results of AZGreen in a few Greening disease infested areas. The approach is two fold, one is that it kills the insect vectors (Asian Citrus Psyllids) on contact, and the other is that it tremendously boosts the plant's ability to cope up with the disease even if it has been infected and producing normal fruits, or prevents the disease from setting in because of its boosted immune system.

Anyway, we aim to provide toxic-free methodologies to combat both insect pests and diseases while help improve plant nutrition.

The general idea is that most tropical plants are bombarded with year-round diseases and insect pressure. If a product works in the tropical areas, it should work better elsewhere. We have been extracting many types of plant chemicals from the healthiest tropical plants which normally have built those resistances naturally while in the tropics thriving under such heavy selection pressures, and then use those extracts on other crop plants. We try to avoid the use of synthetic chemicals which although might be approved by the FDA based on the short term required tests, but whose long term effects are unknown.

Our product is a new type which is being positioned right now as foliar blend, a fertilizer supplement due to stringent requirements of other categories, but it has excellent side effects on the other categories, rivaling the results of conventional toxic chemicals. It is not the sole source of nutrition but with it you will have enhanced use of your fertilizers in your existing nutrition program and as a big bonus, you can have insect pests, nematodes and disease protections, and can let go of those toxic chemicals. And as foliar blend, it provides some nutrition in the form of macro and micronutrients. It has hormones, amino acids and other nutrition enhancers.

In some cases, it enhances root and bud formation. In sugarcane for example, it enhances formation of buds when planting sugar cane. Just dip the canes to cover it with the diluted solution, and when you plant, it doubles the amount of cane buds that come out of the planting. It also helps rooting of grape, pomegranate, citrus and rose cuttings. But in itself AZ41 has only a mild rooting hormone property, so it is not a complete substitute for root hormones, but it can improve the rooting compared to just sticking the cuttings into the soil. I dip my scionwood in the diluted AZ41 before I do the grafting and it helps in the take. Banana corms should respond well by dipping into the solution before planting them. Watering the banana roots with the product should help alleviate root associated problems with bananas. It also helps skin eczema, and a nice liquid soap or shampoo for those other fanatic users of ours, due to its melaleuca and Aloe vera extracts.

Some of our growers have been combining our product with Multi-fix, which makes it the best combo to use on strawberries and other vegetables. Of course, there are other foliar products you can mix it with to give you total crop nutrition and crop protection.

If the crop fertilizers are applied basally, then AZ41 will help the uptake if some of it is also applied through the drip lines.

We had other people try to mix together extracts of Melaleuca, citrus peels and Aloe vera but they were not effective. We have a patented process of extraction and mixing which results in 100% water solubility and the discovered enhance properties I have mentioned above based on world wide trials on farmer's fields.

Perhaps our closest competitor would be Timorex, a melaleuca oil-based product that is developed and marketed by an Israeli company. And we are priced competitively with that product. It is also used on organically grown bananas in Southern American countries. That will be our next target once we are done with our OMRI certification.

Most importantly, compared to other total packages, ours will provide a gateway for farmers to convert from conventional farming to organic farming. Right now, we can compete head-on with conventional inputs that will allow farmers to produce completely pesticide-free produce that are blemish-free, such as squeakingly-clean fresh grapes. The pesticide free product is a big step as that alone will help us get rid of the many toxic chemicals constantly sprayed to keep the crops appealing. In fact, from my own opinion, I can live with conventional fertilizers but not with any synthetic pesticides, fungicides, nematicides and other chemical inputs.

It used to be that only synthetic chemicals can be used to produce blemish-free crops, and usually, organic products are generally non-appealing when it comes to looks of the farmers' products. Now, blemish-free appealing crops that are toxic-free and pesticide-free residues, from the grower to the the consumer, are made possible with AZ41 and our other upcoming products. Safe for the applicator, the farmer, and the ultimate consumer. We can spray AZ41 on lettuce for example, and you can eat the lettuce right away without worry. You can spray an entire field or your yard, and enjoy the citrus-scented aroma of the spray without fear of toxic chemicals entering your body. And to be rewarded with mostly blemish-free crops, this would take organic growing to the next level of producing appealing crops, with an excellent arsenal up their sleeves. CCOF (Organic Directory - CCOF: Organic Certification, Trade Association, Organic Education, and Political Advocacy since 1973 (http://www.ccof.org/directories.php) ) has approved organic farmers even if they use our products, but we still have to do OMRI certification for automatic classification. It is in the works, and should pass easily with flying colors because none of our ingredients are synthetic and none are toxic. Most importantly, you don't need to go organic to use our product, but it will provide you an excellent option to convert over. AZ41 can be used for the current conventional growing but make your products cleaner, free from man-made patented chemicals that are often toxic, carcinogenic and other unknown long-term effects on human health and the environment.



Joe

Richard
03-23-2009, 11:08 PM
The guaranteed analysis is required by the USDA for all foliar fertilizers. So it is a report format that does no justice if you will use AZ41 based on that analysis alone for the entire crop's nutrition program. That's the analysis of the concentrate.

O.K., thanks! Although, I think it speaks in a very positive way of the product.

harveyc
03-23-2009, 11:18 PM
Richard, your comparison is still a phantom one without seeing the products you are referring to as well as how they have performed when used as prescribed. I'm interested in giving AZ41 a try but might also be willing to try some other products that are available.

If there are slight differences in the products the difference in performance can still be significant, thus it would be good to carry out a trial to compare the products. I read somewhere on the Green Earth Tech site about a huge decrease in plant (pineapple?) losses by a commercial grower and even at this retail price I suspect they would not consider the price of the product to be "ridiculous" or high. Performance is what counts.

To be honest, I think your comment about the pricing AZ41 being "ridiculous" is very inappropriate as you have no experience with the product on which to base such a statement.

Richard
03-24-2009, 12:10 AM
Harvey,

I'm not making a comparison. I am stating that the product can be made cheaper. The ingredients are available in bulk from refineries of terrestrial and oceanic plants. Perhaps it is the case that Grow More buys these in larger quantities and hence cheaper. Use the information as you wish.

harveyc
03-24-2009, 12:16 AM
I can't use the information as I wish because you're not giving us a link to the Grow More products as I asked.

When you stated "I can obtain a surprisingly equivalent product" you are making a comparison. How similar is the product you're talking about? We have no way of knowing without more information.

Harvey

Richard
03-24-2009, 12:32 AM
I can't use the information as I wish because you're not giving us a link to the Grow More products as I asked.

Harvey,
I think you missed this post:

As you know, fertilizer manufacturers have traditional retail products they sell to the public but for the Ag industry: they have several sets of base, conditioning, nutrient, and pesticide packages which can be combined to meet a particular agricultural or product need. These custom combinations are typically sold high-volume containers unless the order is in large enough quantities to merit bottling it in smaller (e.g., gallon, 2-liter, quart) sizes. So for example, the exotic liquid fertilizers that pot farmers buy are really just re-packaged Grow More or Scotts products at an exorbitant price.
Looking at the analysis of AZ41, I see this can be met with 2 base packages plus 2 nutrient packages currently available from Grow More and probably several other manufacturers.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 12:34 AM
Harvey,

I'm not making a comparison. I am stating that the product can be made cheaper. The ingredients are available in bulk from refineries of terrestrial and oceanic plants. Perhaps it is the case that Grow More buys these in larger quantities and hence cheaper. Use the information as you wish.

Richard, I'd truly appreciate to know the suppliers of raw materials, especially the certified organically-processed melaleuca oil. We buy our pre-processed materials in bulk all over the planet, the cheapest we can get to help reduce prices... the most expensive so far is melaleuca and we are starting a process of feasibility of raising our own melaleuca crops to lower the prices.

From eight years of introduction and trials (from a different company), we haven't changed much our prices because we are fossil-fuel free, and are only affected by the shipping and processing energy prices. From eight years ago, the oil prices have a net increase, sending the conventional petroleum-derived fungicides and insecticides to within our mostly unaffected price range per potency (computation based on total price used per unit of land, AZ41 versus other conventional inputs to do the same job). And most of all, being a gateway to organic growing or having pesticide-free products is a major advantage to small start-up companies like us.

Some fungicides are more expensive than us, comparing fungicide versus AZ41 in grapes. But grapes has other inputs such as nematicides and insecticides.

With raisin grapes for example, we usually compare total use of fertilizers, fungicides, nematicides, insecticides per unit acre farmed versus fertilizers plus AZ41. Then we also compare revenues, yield vs yield, and final pricing at the packing houses. The raisin products by our users have earned top dollars based on premium quality, and so much more if our grower is in the CCOF program.

We can't openly publish farmers personal data but suffice it to say that they have been repeat customers and are very satisfied with the overall bottom line performance of AZ41. That is why we have also purchased a 20-acre farm parcel in Visalia, for our test and show case and can have published data sometime next year where we can show real numbers.

We have recently penetrated blueberry growers in California. The initial trials produced bigger berries and excellent control of root rot. So one of our plant nutritionist is assisting a big grower, reformulating the existing blueberry nutrition. That is an information that we cannot share, except on the general idea of how much AZ41 was used.

One of the complaints of some of our farmers is that when they used AZ41 on their vegetables is that they produced oversized lettuce heads, eggplants, tomatoes, zucchinis, gourds, etc., that don't fit with their normal boxes. They now are using bigger sized boxes or are readjusting to lower their fertilizer use. They now get multiple crops of eggplants and peppers.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 12:49 AM
It truly helps if the products are higher valued, our work would be easier. But consider the fact that bananas grown in tropical countries are often the cheapest valued crop in the tropics, and yet a major multinational company in the Philippines is using AZ41 regularly on their bananas. If the price of AZ41 cannot justify the increased revenue, then they would have stopped using it a long time ago. It is the same with the major pineapple producer of Australia, if the cost do not justify the benefits, then they would have stopped using the product. These are companies with full-blown agronomy and horticultural departments to look into these. These are the companies that don't use products without field trials. In fact getting them to do just the initial trial was very hard. But finally they kept an open mind and tried it scientifically, compared it with their existing conventional products, and have concluded based on benefits versus cost analysis to order our products regularly. This is the same with many other farmers and users that were brave enough to try it out and compared their bottom line. As for us hobbyists, it is encouraged that we test it first as directed.

We are also targeting even lower valued crops that have problems and can make a case of price versus benefits. In the US Crops for now, the higher valued crops are fewer but they are an easier market to penetrate.

harveyc
03-24-2009, 01:04 AM
Harvey,
I think you missed this post:

No, I did not miss the post, Richard. You seem to like to play games with words and seem to imply that you can come up with the same product from a couple of Grow More products, but you won't list them. Do they contain the same ingredients (not just the same analysis)?

Why do you refuse to list the Grow More products you refer to?

You seem to be missing the point in a significant way. If you don't have something that you can compare results to, you have no basis to judge the price of another product.

Seriously, Richard, quit playing games.

Harvey

Richard
03-24-2009, 01:13 AM
Richard, I'd truly appreciate to know the suppliers of raw materials, especially the certified organically-processed melaleuca oil.

Joe, I do not know what all the plant sources are for the lignosulfate and EDTA chelates available as base liquid components from Grow More. I do know that they are approved for certified organic farming in California. I also know that some of them are refined kelp extract. Finally, these chelates can become invalid for Calif. certified organic if certain compounds are added -- for example, Urea Nitrate.
My knowledge of all this comes from working on a new product with Grow More targeted at the hydroponic industry. It will be 9 to 18 months before we begin manufacturing.

bencelest
03-24-2009, 01:14 AM
SaltyDad,

We noted that it is INCOMPATIBLE with copper-based products and AZ41 itself has no significant amount of copper to cause havoc on aquatic life. AZ41 has only trace contents in the ppm region, then you dilute it 250 to 1000 times .
We recommend NOT to mix any copper containing product during the spraying because it can render both products, AZ41 and the copper-based product, ineffective.

One excellent property of AZ41 is that it has sticker properties because of its saponnins, a natural surfactant that breaks the surface tension of water and is able to wet even between the "hairs" of tomatoes and eggplants. Having a sticker property, you can mix it with other foliar fertilizers at the same time and there is no need for you to add sticker chemicals. It will then be absorbed by the plants quickly, like if you apply them 2 to 4 hours ahead of the rain, and the plant stomates are open, then, even if it rains afterwards, there is no need to worry as it has been absorbed, together with the foliar fertilizers that you mix together with it.

Most foliar fertilizers have only traces of copper, so it is not a problem mixing with other foliar fertilizers. What AZ41 is incompatible with are copper hydroxide such as Kocide, and copper sulfate such as those of the blue-colored fungicides. It would render the solution ineffective if you mix them together.


Joe

Joe:
I have that Asian Pear which were attacked by Fireblight last year and I treated it with copper sulfate when it was dormant and applied again when the buds started showing. But I used also the AZ41 a couple of times.
And I did not see any wilting of new buds.
I was going to say that AZ41 helps but it maybe too soon to say.
Cooper sulfate did not eradicate the fireblight last year because the symptoms were there still although less excessive.
What I did not know is that AZ41 may have help to eradicate fire blight.
Or is it too soon to tell. My Asian Pears starting to bloom and form leaves at this time.

Benny

harveyc
03-24-2009, 01:20 AM
Benny, last year was a year with low pressure for flreblight as we didn't have any spring rains in our (yours, Joe's, mine) area. With the rains we had this past weekend and also a couple of weeks ago, commercial pear growers in my area have been needing to spray more and I would expect your threat of fireblight in 2009 to be higher than in 2008. I didn't spray any of my trees for anything in 2008 and had very little fireblight or peach leaf curl. The lack of rain obviously wasn't so good for the water supplies for the state, though.

I only have two pear trees left, down from about 800 trees 10 years ago. Fireblight was a major problem, only behind codling moths and low commodity prices.

Harvey

bencelest
03-24-2009, 01:36 AM
Thanks for the info Harvey. What I am driving at is if AZ41 can and will help to cure Fireblight? As it stands now, I don't have the symtoms and may have helped my pears to eradicate it by AZ41 as an added bonus?
But it is too soon to tell. But so far it has no symtoms.
Sorry to hear your pears demise. That's a lot plants you missed.
And as Joe said, as a hobbyist, why not try for experience if it will work.

harveyc
03-24-2009, 01:39 AM
Benny, I don't miss the pears. I kept one of the original trees, perhaps about 100 years old now. I put in their place the chestnut orchard which has much fewer pests and more profits.

With your encouragement the other day, I finally mixed up some AZ41 yesterday and sprayed it on several of my hobby plants. I did have some scale on a couple of citrus plants (new problem for me), so it was a good time to give it a try anyways.

Harvey

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 01:42 AM
Joe, I do not know what all the plant sources are for the lignosulfate and EDTA chelates available as base liquid components from Grow More. I do know that they are approved for certified organic farming in California. I also know that some of them are refined kelp extract. Finally, these chelates can become invalid for Calif. certified organic if certain compounds are added -- for example, Urea Nitrate.
My knowledge of all this comes from working on a new product with Grow More targeted at the hydroponic industry. It will be 9 to 18 months before we begin manufacturing.

We could be nice complimentary products. We will take care about the plant protection part and supplemental nutrition and your products can take care of the complete nutrition portion. The key is to reduce the total amount of water in the products. We have gone to the lowest content of water possible to maintain the consistency of our product in liquid form and still 100% soluble in water and having sticker property. We anticipate mixing with other products and so we keep in mind to have the sticker property that you don't need to have in your product.

One of our forthcoming products called AZFrost will also be using the Kelp and other algae derived compounds for use during winter season on citruses.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 01:50 AM
Joe:
I have that Asian Pear which were attacked by Fireblight last year and I treated it with copper sulfate when it was dormant and applied again when the buds started showing. But I used also the AZ41 a couple of times.
And I did not see any wilting of new buds.
I was going to say that AZ41 helps but it maybe too soon to say.
Cooper sulfate did not eradicate the fireblight last year because the symptoms were there still although less excessive.
What I did not know is that AZ41 may have help to eradicate fire blight.
Or is it too soon to tell. My Asian Pears starting to bloom and form leaves at this time.

Benny


Benny,

AZ41 has bactericidal properties so it could help eradicate fireblight. One of the problems of AZ41 is that it is oil-based, primarily low chain oils for complete solubility with water. Being oil, it may damage the bloom and make it unattractive for pollinators, so we don't recommend spraying at peak bloom (usually at 50% opened flowers).

As long as you apply copper sulfate four hours after spraying AZ41 or apply AZ41 a full day after copper sulfate, there should be no problems. You should apply copper sulfate spray directly unto the blooms of apples and pears to minimize fireblight. We recommend spraying of AZ41 after petal fall or 15 days after peak bloom whichever comes first. I will do formal trial with AZ41 directly on the apple blooms and see what happens.

It is the same with citruses. Don't spray AZ41 when you have a lot of citrus flowers open. Wait until most petals have fallen before resuming the spraying. The idea is not to discourage bees and other pollinators during peak blooms. Although the pollinators will easily escape sprays, it may discourage them from pollinating your crops.

We are also developing a product that will take care of codling moth of apples and asian pears. Just PM me if you have codling moth problems.



Regards,

Joe

Richard
03-24-2009, 01:52 AM
We could be nice complimentary products.

Interesting ... My product will be for hydroponic injector systems and not foliar spray.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 02:16 AM
Interesting ... My product will be for hydroponic injector systems and not foliar spray.

Our product can take care of root related pest and disease problems. Most common problems of hydroponics especially in greenhouses are mites, aphids, thrips, powdery mildew, bunch rots on fruits, and these can penetrate even the most secure greenhouses or screenhouses. That is when you would need our product to take care of the exposed plant parts and under those conditions, these tiny pests would proliferate without any plant protection. Unless you are growing completely submerge aquatic plant crops, then you wouldn't need our product.

Our product can be piped unto the tubes leading up to misting setup over the hydroponically grown plants to automatically spray every 15 days or month or so, depending on disease and insect pressure. We have some users doing such with their special off-season tomatoes, and he doesn't need a screenhouse nor a greenhouse, just the transparent roof to keep out the rains, and he's making a killing with his off-season tomatoes. And if such a setup is done, there is minimal labor cost and improve application, reducing the cost of using AZ41.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 02:58 AM
I'd be glad to know how much is the total cost of using combination of other organic based products that would be as effective as AZ41 when it comes to use as organic insecticide, fungicide, nematicide, and can offer supplemental nutrition and at the same time enhance plant's immunity.

I know the total cost of using conventional inputs in some conventional farms and that AZ41 is at par or cheaper than these other inputs. When it comes to CCOF farms, we are the cheapest by far to produce high quality crop products. You would have to use a combination of many other organic products and more of them to achieve the same results, and the total costs are often not justifiable so farmers are not often using such amount to achieve blemish-free crops, and the organic farmer has to market sub-par crops. Spinosad for example and other bacterial-based products used to control insects require re-entry time after application and ours do not.

It even has come to point of compromise, and such lobbying efforts allowed exemption of using up to 10% inorganic or synthesized products when organic farming. You don't need to compromise into this exemption if you use AZ41. Well, we could easily boost our nutrition to 10% inorganic fertilizers and still satisfy requirements as organically approved farm inputs, but we don't need to resort into that. We can let the purists be pure in their organic pursuit, and we can still make the conventional farmers profitable and offer safer choices for their workers. The product is perfectly safe indoors as well, especially for hobbyists who value safety over quality, and we made it possible for farmers and hobbyists to achieve both.

And so far we found no organic based hydroponic products with all the plant protection and other beneficial properties that AZ41 has.

bencelest
03-24-2009, 08:56 AM
Harvey:
Joe's experience with AZ41 with scales are very promising. He used to have scale infestation before and at this time he said that he can't see any. He made have cured them. He even asked me if I had scale problems and I said no. He thought that he may have gotten those from me now he thought he got it from somewhere else.
Also, fortunately I don't have coddling moth problem. Only aphids and powdery mildew. But in mortal proportion. But at least now, I can breath easily for I don't see a single one of them and the buds and flowers of all my plants are beautiful and healthy looking. I know I will have a better harvest this year.
I am glad we have Joe to the rescue.
I am about to go berserk just how I was going to combat those pests.
You ought to see my Italian fruit tree a mature one at least 20 feet tall. You would think that the whole tree was painted black and the surrounding soil was full of black fallen leaves. Consequently, the trees close to it was infected also. One of them was my Fuji's. I was so mad I cut the Italian prune drastically and grafted to it some French prunes, Sweet prunes and the Tachima all Joe gave me. But I had left many side branches of the Italian prunes in reachable height and that's what I am talking about. The flowers and the leaves are all healthy looking now. Not a sign of black sooty mold. I looked at the Internet that sooty mold is a byproduct of other infestation such as aphids. And I had millions of them crawling one on top each other for every leaf of that tree. Now, those branches that I grafted have flowers now and so I can taste their fruit this summer.
I am also beginning to use AZ41 to combat soil harmful organisms. I am adding AZ41 whenever I transplant my bananas and other important special plants.
Remember I transplanted to the ground my senorita corm at my pergola plat what's left of it after I discovered its rot? Well, if the AZ41 can resuscitate my corm into living again, then I'd say the AZ41 has a miracle properties. But I would not count on it cause I think that corm is a goner.
Thanks a million Joe just as always.
PS: All of my transplanted plants are thriving and vigorous as well.
And I was able to talk to my neighbors that I cut their trees next to mine at 8 feet level as oppose to 20 feet. Now my fruit trees can see sunshine.
What a wonderful world!
And my wife don't lock me outside anymore! But with a price.
Benny

Richard
03-24-2009, 09:08 AM
You seem to be missing the point in a significant way. If you don't have something that you can compare results to, you have no basis to judge the price of another product.

Harvey,
I have spent the last 10 years studying the plant science and ag co-op literature in crop nutrition. I have also spent the last 3 years studying the specifications of 100's (maybe a few 1000) nutrient products and the components that manufacturers use to produce them. Consequently, when I read the chemical analysis of a nutrient product, I recognize the base constituents and their costs that have been used to make them just as you would recognize your son as he stands in front of you.

You are thinking in what I would term "retail mode". Consider the various refining industries, for example petroleum. They do not have product names in the retail sense for the base distillates they produce, nor do they post them on the internet. However, if you pick up a chemical trade magazine you'll find (for example) people debating the merits and demerits of ethylene packages from various refineries.

harveyc
03-24-2009, 09:49 AM
Richard, you don't have any basis to classify my mode of thinking. You're such a genius that you read minds as well???

I've purchased large volumes of farm chemicals and fertilizers for 15 years and receive many trade publications. I've read of and tried many products based on claims, sometimes not supported. Some have said they perform as well as or better than another product, but have not.

You're still playing games and wasting my time. Put up a product for me to try.

Joe, are you going to offer AZ41 in smaller containers than the 2 liter bottle presently on your web site so that hobbyists can try it at a more reasonable cost? I believe 2 liters is more than many hobbyists would need.

bencelest
03-24-2009, 10:35 AM
Joe:
On second note:
I used to see some white flies flying around when I sprayed AZ41 just 3 weeks ago. I just ignored them.
Now I don't see a single one flying around.
Could it be again a cure for it?
I just wonder.
Anyways, white flies were my mortal enemy with my tomatoes. I just can't see any hope to kill them such that I almost don't want to grow tomatoes any more. White flies were just too many and I could not find any cure. I've used malathion, oil based chemicals, soap, etc...but no chance.
Now I don't see them flying anymore. Not one.

Benny

bencelest
03-24-2009, 10:52 AM
I am also beginning to think that your product maybe in DANGER Joe. Your product maybe so good that the other Giant companies who manipulated the bottled chemicals for so long on the stores may act accordingly. They may lose millions if not billions of sale if your product becomes known to the public. I think they hired chemists so their products have to use time and again so we buy them all the time. And that's more money to them.
Yours as you say, can be use only once a month and one tabspn per gallon of water.
This is just my thought.
Just as I thought that the candy companies have added so much sugar in the US made candies, cakes and so on and add more salt to chips and so on so that US population becomes obese so the hospitals, doctors can have more patients. You know if you are fat, you are susceptible to many ailments not counting physical.
Just my thought.........Because in the Orient candies and other snacks are not that sweet or salty and the population are not that fat in general. But of course, food resources are a problem too there.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 12:44 PM
Benny,

We actually had very tempting offer from one of the prominent oil companies, and also offer from some foreign government cabinet members. We are postponing the meetings with them weighing benefits to mankind and our own retirement benefits. I love to do more and be creative by developing better and safer products when we get more earnings to plow back into research. My love of tinkering will be over if the board decided to have us bought out by another company. One oil company, I know would love to shelve our product, just like you suspect and impose the patent rules for those who attempt to produce the next generation of products based on this one. Another wanted to profit for themselves, by buying us early, on the cheap, and then perhaps selling us off to another company for a profit. There is no assurance that mankind will benefit from safer products that we developed. That is also why I have convinced the board to extend arms to hobbyists. Been looking for a long time for this kind of product, now that it is here, I wanted to share the news. We will be working hard to make it even cheaper, but that takes time if you want to process the expensive raw materials.

Joe

I am also beginning to think that your product maybe in DANGER Joe. Your product maybe so good that the other Giant companies who manipulated the bottled chemicals for so long on the stores may act accordingly. They may lose millions if not billions of sale if your product becomes known to the public. I think they hired chemists so their products have to use time and again so we buy them all the time. And that's more money to them.
Yours as you say, can be use only once a month and one tabspn per gallon of water.
This is just my thought.
Just as I thought that the candy companies have added so much sugar in the US made candies, cakes and so on and add more salt to chips and so on so that US population becomes obese so the hospitals, doctors can have more patients. You know if you are fat, you are susceptible to many ailments not counting physical.
Just my thought.........Because in the Orient candies and other snacks are not that sweet or salty and the population are not that fat in general. But of course, food resources are a problem too there.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 12:53 PM
Benny,

Yes, the white flies are one of the insect pests that can be controlled by AZ41. And speaking of tomatoes, AZ41 will make your tomatoes set more fruits, prolonged harvest, bigger, sweeter and tastier fruits. The aloe vera component imparts polysaccharides and complex flavors. The aloe vera extract that we use are the edible portions of the plant, that is often taken as food supplement. We processed it to be absorbed by the plants quickly in our formulation. While aloe vera is non-patent, our method of extraction and processing is patented. We use about 10 to 20 lbs of aloe vera and get only 1 lb from it, dry it and use it to make our final formulation. We simply plow back the excess aloe vera into the field where they were grown.

Make sure to mix 1 tbsp of AZ41 with 2 gallons water and substitute your watering the tomatoes with it once or twice a month. You will produce more excellent tasting tomatoes that are blemish-free that no one would believe it is pesticide-free method! We literally made a millionaire out of one user growing first class tomatoes somewhere there in the Pacific.

As soon as we finish the OMRI, we will also be off to Hawaii, where they have the same year-round pests and diseases just like the Philippines.

Joe


Joe:
On second note:
I used to see some white flies flying around when I sprayed AZ41 just 3 weeks ago. I just ignored them.
Now I don't see a single one flying around.
Could it be again a cure for it?
I just wonder.
Anyways, white flies were my mortar enemy with my tomatoes. I just can't see any hope to kill them such that I almost don't want to grow tomatoes any more. White flies were just too many and I could not find any cure. I've used malathion, oil based chemicals, soap, etc...but no chance.
Now I don't see them flying anymore. Not one.

Benny

CookieCows
03-24-2009, 01:29 PM
Our member Joe Real is working with a friend in distributing this product in the U.S. I bought a sample in January and just started using it. Benny has been using it a bit longer and made some very positive comments in his "what did you graft today" thread.

AZ41 (http://www.greenerearthtech.com/cmsmain/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=60)

I may do an informal trial with some of my TC plants to arrive from Richard soon.

Harvey

I'm definitly going to try this after hearing about the great results. This is the link of what it is and where to buy it Harvey? Just want to make sure since it's expensive and don't want to get the wrong thing LOL

Thanks,
Deb

Ok.. I'm editing this post... I see now that this is the stuff! Can't wait to try it.

bencelest
03-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Benny,

Yes, the white flies are one of the insect pests that can be controlled by AZ41. And speaking of tomatoes, AZ41 will make your tomatoes set more fruits, prolonged harvest, bigger, sweeter and tastier fruits. The aloe vera component imparts polysaccharides and complex flavors. The aloe vera extract that we use are the edible portions of the plant, that is often taken as food supplement. We processed it to be absorbed by the plants quickly in our formulation. While aloe vera is non-patent, our method of extraction and processing is patented. We use about 10 to 20 lbs of aloe vera and get only 1 lb from it, dry it and use it to make our final formulation.



Joe

Since you mentioned aloe vera, can I use it as shampoo to take a shower?

Ha-ha-ha.......
Just kidding.


Benny

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 02:06 PM
Since you mentioned aloe vera, can I use it as shampoo to take a shower?

Ha-ha-ha.......
Just kidding.


Benny

No kidding Benny! Our company President sometimes use AZ41 as hand soap or shampoo when he is out there in remote areas. :ha:

My son has eczema because of food allergies, and we sometimes use it, and it helps, may not be as good as the balm but it helps. Happens when we forget his oitnment. The trick is to dilute it when using personally.


Joe

bencelest
03-24-2009, 03:14 PM
Oh!-Oh!
I better shut my mouth. Zipped up!
What Not it can do???
Yeah! I noticed my first 5 times of using it, I pour the AZ41 to my 2 gallon spray container and then I filled the container with water and I had problems with bubbles. When the water was only 1/4 full the bubbles were starting to overflow and it kept on overflowing until I had the water level with the 2 gallon mark. I had to spray the sink full of bubbles all over. Until I met you at Gene Lester's and you told me to pour the AZ41 after I filled my spray container. I also use warm water in the process.
But I don't have any problem when I start spraying.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 03:23 PM
Oh!-Oh!
I better shut my mouth. Zipped up!
What Not it can do???

It can't do many other things, like mow my lawn....

One of the farmers inquired: It's insecticide, fungicide, bactericide, nematicide... How about suicide?

Our field botanist quickly replied: Nope, it can't do that last one, but will guarantee a tommy ache and days of diarrhea. (Remember that it's faster than light? )

So it can't do many things... :ha:

Richard
03-24-2009, 05:35 PM
Richard, you don't have any basis to classify my mode of thinking. You're such a genius that you read minds as well???

I've purchased large volumes of farm chemicals and fertilizers for 15 years and receive many trade publications. I've read of and tried many products based on claims, sometimes not supported. Some have said they perform as well as or better than another product, but have not.

Harvey, I'm not making any claims other than cost. Also, please stop spitting at me.

harveyc
03-24-2009, 05:42 PM
Richard, you're the one doing the criticizing here and I'm only criticizing your lack of substantive details. Costs need to be measured in terms of the benefits derived. $50 for a material that produces 500 gallons of a spray material that reportedly provides some very helpful benefits to commercial growers does not constitute a ridiculous price.

Why have you refused to provide any details on the comparative Grow More products you referenced?

I can say that a $80,000 backhoe is ridiculously-priced because I can buy a good quality shovel for $20 or less, but is that really justified?

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 05:43 PM
Joe- As many of my nanas are planted around my pond which contains fish and hardy and tropical plants, what is the effect on aquatics? I noted it has copper in it, which worried me about spraying near the pond. Thanks.

saltydad,

I dug out some files from our former researchers and found the following technoguide for commercial fish ponds in brackishwater. The commercial ponds in the Philippines do not have pond liners or expansive clay barriers at the bottom. Being used in commercial fish ponds, I can only say that AZ41 is very safe to use on your plants around your pond areas with some of it dripping into the water:

TECHNOLOGY OF THE FISH POND’S AZ41
ROXAS CITY, Philippines

APPLICATION PROCEDURE
1. Dry pond bottom for a minimum period of one week. Allow it to crack.
2. Apply AZ41 by spraying or pond bottom until it is thoroughly wet.
3. In case of rain during or after AZ41 application, retain water for two days and slowly drain thereafter.
4. After first application allow it to dry in 3 days, after 3 days drying 2nd spray application is required, the dilutions is 100ml/16 liters of water (10 knapsack/hectare.). Be sure that the pond bottom is thoroughly wet.
5. After a day of second application, allow (sea water brackish water, fresh water) to enter to a level just enough to wet the pond bottom.
6. Maintain wetness of the pond and after 5-7 days apply inorganic/organic fertilizer and less 30% to the natural practice.
7. Admit water in minimal volume of 2-3 inches every two days. Daily enter of water is discouraged to avoid disturbance of lab-lab, the pond is now ready for stocking.
8. When desired water level is reached with the desired growth of lab-lab, the pond now is ready for stocking.
9. Stock of bangus/fish fingerlings into the pond at the a minimum volume of 2,500 pieces/ha.
10. Thirty days after stocking, dressing inorganic fertilizer and with less 30% to the natural practice
11. After 45 DAYS stocking apply AZ41 by dressing is beside to the pond with the dilution of 50ml/ 16 liters of water(1000ml/ha.)
12. Stock can be harvested after 3-4 months culture depending on desired weight or size

BENEFITS OF USING AZ41 ON FISHPONDS:

I. Product Features:
- Ease application
- No need to mix other compounds
- No foul odor
- Fast result 2-3 days application
- Long lasting with residual effect

II. Product contents
- Fast natural growth hormones
- Macro & micro nutrients
- Complete natural vitamins
- Probiotic Enzymes
- Soil conditioner

III. Effect on pond bottom
- Increase organic matter content
- Produce thick blue green lab-lab (brackishwater algae fish food)
- Produce good quality of lab-lab (brackishwater algae fish food)
- Produces 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation of lab-lab
- Prevent bottom pond acidity

Richard
03-24-2009, 05:57 PM
I agree with Joe that there is a lot of room for improvement in pesticide products. When a farmer looks at the flagship products from major manufacturers, they see products priced at a wholesale price of $300 per gallon applied at a rate of 1 fluid ounce per acre. Now, you might think that is concentrated but in reality it is just exceedingly toxic. In fact, depending on what county you farm in you'll also need to have or hire someone with 4 to 7 health and agricultural permits to apply it. So a farmer that has lived with that situation is much relieved with Joe's product because it costs less and depending on the county farm in, you'll need 0 to 2 permits to apply it.

Now as for the price, one can base it on current pricing of competitors products or simply calculate from "the bottom up". By this I mean you add up the real cost of materials, labor, operational costs, etc. including your own time and come up with a number. I prefer this method because in the long run customers realize there is real value in the product, and I personally couldn't sleep well thinking my products were at some usary price.

From what Joe has said, I believe he is also calculating his price bottom up, and his dominant material cost is melaleuca oil. It is his choice to use it and he might be correct that it will be a tremendous selling point. If it were my project -- which it is not -- I would use a different plant source costing far less, but still approved for certified organic farming. I'm sure Joe is aware of these alternate materials and sources for them, so more power to him. It is not something I will sell in the forseeable future, especially since I do not yet have the state licensing to sell anything labeled with a pesticide function.

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 06:20 PM
Richard I agree with you about the permits for fungicides, nematicides or insecticides. The total cost of permits, especially the required toxicology and clinical studies will kill many startup companies to satisfy that one. The easiest by far would be the fertilizer permits. But as we get more money, we will roll this over to get those other permits.

We are also helping another felllow register his organic fumigant.. Which would be a good compliment to our product in other niche markets. Already spent almost his entire fortune on it, and we charge him nothing for our help, only that we promote each other's products whenever they can be used together. So we have some idea on how much it would cost when the product is positioned as pesticides, insecticides, fungicides, etc... Thanks to the lobbying efforts done by the powerful chemical companies.

harveyc
03-24-2009, 06:23 PM
Joe, I noticed last week that those citrus you grafted for me last year had scale on them. I've never had scale before so I don't know if they came from your place or some other plant. In a short period of time they really exploded (not literally!) since the plants were still in my greenhouse. I sprayed them with AZ41 two days ago. Today I noticed one of my avocados in the greenhouse was also loaded with scale. To get a good application, I picked up the potted avocado and took it outside. That's when I noticed the ants which obviously had brought the scale to the avocado. I sprayed it well and went back to check an hour later and noticed that all of the ants were dead in their tracks! Pretty hard to tell if the scale are alive or dead at this point.

Now, it so happens, that I've recently had my annual return of ants come into my house near my kitchen sink. They do this every time of year and I think they must live in the wall of my old house or maybe down in the soil below. Anyways, I was wondering if there are any concerns I should have in using this around a kitchen countertop.

Thanks,

Harvey

JoeReal
03-24-2009, 06:47 PM
Joe, I noticed last week that those citrus you grafted for me last year had scale on them. I've never had scale before so I don't know if they came from your place or some other plant. In a short period of time they really exploded (not literally!) since the plants were still in my greenhouse. I sprayed them with AZ41 two days ago. Today I noticed one of my avocados in the greenhouse was also loaded with scale. To get a good application, I picked up the potted avocado and took it outside. That's when I noticed the ants which obviously had brought the scale to the avocado. I sprayed it well and went back to check an hour later and noticed that all of the ants were dead in their tracks! Pretty hard to tell if the scale are alive or dead at this point.

Now, it so happens, that I've recently had my annual return of ants come into my house near my kitchen sink. They do this every time of year and I think they must live in the wall of my old house or maybe down in the soil below. Anyways, I was wondering if there are any concerns I should have in using this around a kitchen countertop.

Thanks,

Harvey

It takes a long while to get rid of the scales because someimes the ants hide them in parts of the plant inaccessible by the spray, or import them from various places. My experience with citruses is that it takes a year before I can manage them, they are still being brought by the ants from my neighbor's plants. The regular spraying of AZ41 makes the effects of scales negligible. But as soon as your plants have absorbed enough phytohormones and nutrients, it would become unpalatable to the scales, and you would see minimum problems with them. I now have sooty-free and blemish-free citrus fruits as the population of the scales, aphids, thrips, cottony scale and mealy bugs have been brought down very low. No more sugary drips nor spider like gum drips. All citrus leaves are shiny and clean, and most of all the fruits too!

You can use AZ41 to spray directly on marching ants inside your house, in the pantry, in the cupboard, in the countertops without fear of toxic effects. The only problem is that AZ41 kills only on direct contact. As soon as the area is dry enough, the other ants will come back, and there are millions of them!

But on plants, the aphids and bugs that the ant have been farming will no longer benefit them because the bugs will find your plants unpalatable from the regular spraying of AZ41. Too bad our countertops and surfaces inside our house don't have systemic effects like the plants have, otherwise we would have longer lasting effects inside our kitchen too. But that is another problem to solve, the AZ41 is not meant for long term effects as ant control inside the house, only on plants.

harveyc
03-24-2009, 07:30 PM
I can add some Nu-Film to it. :) Just joking, I don't think it would be very effective for ants just to crawl over it and the Nu-Film would leave a residue my wife would definitely not be pleased about! LOL

Still, sometimes when you see a whole heard of ants there is great pleasure in going in with the equivalent of a "cluster bomb" and killing a bunch at once! :D

Harvey

CookieCows
03-24-2009, 07:30 PM
This sounds like Frontline for plants! LOL

Have you had anyone respond with this working on Japanese Beetles?

saltydad
03-24-2009, 08:32 PM
Joe-
I appreciate the extra effort to find the research on commercial fish farmers. I'll admit to being amazed that there are claims of actual benefits for the fish. The only thing that caused a tad amount of disquiet was to see that AZ-41 will help grow blue-green algae. Unfortunately this I do not want in my pond. However, as the only exposure in my pond would be incidental to non-aquatic use, I feel reassured. Thanks again for the effort.

Richard
03-24-2009, 09:03 PM
This sounds like Frontline for plants! LOL


:ha: :ha: :ha:

Yeah, Harvey is getting frustrated with his taxes and I'm an easy target! :D

I planted another 75 seedling chestnut trees yesterday as well as a jujube and 5 figs. Today I'm resting and doing taxes and my head is hurting!

Lagniappe
03-24-2009, 09:26 PM
Good one, Deb! :D:D:D
I don't know what Richard's referring to but I just frontline'd all my dogs and now they're running around in the rain :(
Oh well, let the fleas have em' .

Richard
03-24-2009, 09:52 PM
Good one, Deb! :D:D:D
I don't know what Richard's referring to but I just frontline'd all my dogs and now they're running around in the rain :(
Oh well, let the fleas have em' .

FRONTLINE: home | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/)

Lagniappe
03-24-2009, 10:25 PM
FRONTLINE: home | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/)
:confused:

Frontline® - FRONTLINE® is the #1 Vet Choice for Flea and Tick Control (http://frontline.us.merial.com/home/)

CookieCows
03-24-2009, 10:45 PM
Oh ......... I was comparing the AZ-41 to Frontline for dogs and cats but that's a site for interesting reading Richard.

Lagniappe
03-24-2009, 10:48 PM
I agree. I've been going over it since the post.
Thanks, Richard.

momoese
03-24-2009, 10:55 PM
:confused:

Frontline® - FRONTLINE® is the #1 Vet Choice for Flea and Tick Control (http://frontline.us.merial.com/home/)

I am way too paranoid to use this stuff on my dogs. All organic all the time for my woofers!

CookieCows
03-24-2009, 11:02 PM
I am way too paranoid to use this stuff on my dogs. All organic all the time for my woofers!

I know what you mean Mitchell, I get an uncomfortable feeling about it ... but I still use it for now. We have 4 big outside dogs, 3 small inside dogs, 2 cats that are pets and 3 barn cats. I use it on all of them during the summer.

Richard
03-25-2009, 12:08 AM
:confused:

Frontline® - FRONTLINE® is the #1 Vet Choice for Flea and Tick Control (http://frontline.us.merial.com/home/)

:ha: I'd never heard of the product but the analogy makes perfect sense -- an overall protection for plants. Maybe if I turned on the TV every once in a while I'd understand what the rest of the world is thinking about!

JoeReal
03-25-2009, 03:48 AM
This sounds like Frontline for plants! LOL

Have you had anyone respond with this working on Japanese Beetles?

That would be interesting to know. The Japanese Beetles can easily fly off at the slightest disturbance so they can escape the sprays. AZ41 kills insect pests on contact and the continupus application through the growing season, AZ41 helps build the resistance of the plant against diseases and insect infestations. Perhaps the number of JB feasting on your plants sprayed with AZ41 would significantly decline.

I planted a lot of geraniums which are toxic to JB, so I never see any JB in my yard for a long long time and so never had the chance to try AZ41 on them. I spray my geraniums with AZ41 and they are very vigorous, giving me pretty blooms and no JB.

CookieCows
03-25-2009, 06:17 AM
I didn't realize geraniums were toxic to the J.Beetles. We have about 5 grape plants that take the worst hit along with the roses so I'll get some geraniums planted in there too along with spraying the AZ41 this year and will keep you posted!

JoeReal
03-25-2009, 10:25 AM
I didn't realize geraniums were toxic to the J.Beetles. We have about 5 grape plants that take the worst hit along with the roses so I'll get some geraniums planted in there too along with spraying the AZ41 this year and will keep you posted!

You should really start the spraying of AZ41 ASAP. The earlier you do it, the better off you will be as the season progresses. The weakest point of insect pests and diseases is during the early season when their population is starting to build up. The earlier the better. I am suspecting that AZ41 damages also the insect eggs preventing from further hatching.

For grapes, when you have about 4" to 6" bud, that is excellent time to start. I usually start spraying the roses at first sign of bud swell. Different plants have slightly different methods of application to maximize the benefits.

With grapes, it is recommended to pour diluted AZ41 (1 is to 1000 dilution) around the base of your grapes to control nematodes and other root problems. JB overwinters in the root zones and AZ41 will help a lot.

Our raisin farmers does all of these, foliar and drip, in their drip lines and mechanical sprayers.

You would love how the plants respond to AZ41 after a couple of sprayings.

bencelest
03-25-2009, 10:41 AM
I suspect and I believe that AZ41 damage the eggs of white flies also, because before, after spraying with malathion or some oil spray,after 5 days or so they were at it again in multiple numbers. After spraying you'll see many adult white flies dead on the ground and you think you have saved your tomatoes. Not so. After 5 days, you visit your plants and they are at it again. Inspecting on the underside of the leaves, you would see countless of dots in different sizes and I believed those were the eggs.
Today, I don't see any dots or eggs anymore because of AZ41 I sprayed a few weeks ago.

Richard
03-25-2009, 10:55 AM
You're still playing games and wasting my time. Put up a product for me to try.

Harvey,
Yesterday I was at the Grow More facility in Los Angeles picking up supplies. I showed the chemical analysis of AZ41 to one of the Reps and he gave me a ball-park quote based on a truckload worth (10 pallets). It was in line with what I stated earlier -- I could sell it for $10 to $12 per half-gallon and double my investment. Note that it not something I will pursue in the forseeable future because I do not have licenses to sell products labeled with a pesticide function.

Grow More makes many custom and proprietary formulas for the agricultural industry. While waiting my turn at the loading dock, I watched 20 pallets of cannisters being loaded on a truck headed for a farming concern in California's central valley. The formula is something the grower has prescribed and presumably they feel it gives them an edge in the competitive produce market. This approach appears to be common. Rather than purchase a pre-packed "product" in what I term "retail-mode", the growers research a better match for their crop and order a proprietary blend.

bencelest
03-25-2009, 11:09 AM
Another bonus of AZ41:
One of my Fuji apples had leaf hoppers problem. I don't know why they stayed on that particular tree only and they are not much of a nuisance so I ignored them. They just hopped and hide when I disturb them.
But lately I don't see a single one of them.
So that's good news!
And the good news is that all my citrus are in full bud growing formation at this time. And I don't see any single aphid in them. All leaves are in perfect shape and rapidly growing! No more distorted leaves because of aphids.

JoeReal
03-25-2009, 12:37 PM
Harvey,
Yesterday I was at the Grow More facility in Los Angeles picking up supplies. I showed the chemical analysis of AZ41 to one of the Reps and he gave me a ball-park quote based on a truckload worth (10 pallets). It was in line with what I stated earlier -- I could sell it for $10 to $12 per half-gallon and double my investment. Note that it not something I will pursue in the forseeable future because I do not have licenses to sell products labeled with a pesticide function.

Grow More makes many custom and proprietary formulas for the agricultural industry. While waiting my turn at the loading dock, I watched 20 pallets of cannisters being loaded on a truck headed for a farming concern in California's central valley. The formula is something the grower has prescribed and presumably they feel it gives them an edge in the competitive produce market. This approach appears to be common. Rather than purchase a pre-packed "product" in what I term "retail-mode", the growers research a better match for their crop and order a proprietary blend.

Richard,

GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND YOUR COMPANY! BUT YOU ARE MISSING THE BIG POINT! You are using illogical comparison and you don't seem to have any clue on how biochemistry works, and for that matter, an understanding of plant nutrition and plant protection. Please prove me wrong by giving side by side fair comparisons defined as having the same guaranteed analysis and will will achieve the same results, let us just say in raisin grape growing. We have cost comparison data for those, so we can counter check the data you will show.

Also, I'd like some credentials of the sales Rep when it comes to knowledge in biochemistry, agriculture, and manufacturing costs. You know, we can't just accept a statement from a company Sales Rep and take it as fact, at least some credentials relating to the fair comparisons at hand would be truly appreciated. We have a team of real scientists and engineers for starters that are of world-class credentials but not wanting to work anymore with multi-national chemical companies.

One of the things you or your Grow More Rep has no clue about is the cost of acetylmannan, do you even know where it comes from, what it is and what it does? You wouldn't come up with the same formulation such as the exact vitamins, phytohormones, amino acids, polysaccharides, oils, sapponins, etc, that only AZ41 have and these details is what make AZ41 as excellent and revolutionary as it is. Oftentimes, a miniscule of difference can make a world of difference. It is never a guarantee that even if you mix the same number and kinds of individual atoms, that you will get the same molecule. The same number of component analysis do not make the same product. Even if you mix the same raw components, it will not make the same product if you don't use exactly the same manufacturing process. It seems that you are only confined to the limitations of fertilizer components and can't understand anything beyond that. Growing the best quality plants is not only all about using fertilizer formulations. And our product is a new revolutionary approach to crop growing and I can understand how it threatens Grow More and many competitors in the agricultural industry.

I can see that the way your company approaches in formulating your products by your own line of reasoning is simply satisfying the guaranteed analysis and then patching them up by mixing (with formulas of course to achieve the nutrient content) and stirring from the cheapest Hodge-Podge of chemicals or raw materials that you can get hold of.

But I issue a challenge. Have your best people reformulate exactly what is in the analysis without using Melaleuca, Aloe vera, and citrus peels. You can sell your stuff for $10 to $12, and then let us run a test if it will have the same properties and if it will be as effective in all of the properties we have observed. I am betting the company that your $10-$12 formulation is a money thrown away compared to our product, and will only be at best a very expensive fertilizer for that price, even if you have the same guaranteed analysis. Having basic knowledge of chemistry and biochemistry to be specific, we know for a fact that the same guaranteed analysis do not make exactly the same final product and achieve the same total properties and total effectivity.

As an unmistakable example, that perhaps you should be able to understand, is that if you show our guaranteed analysis of our product and only that information to any chemist, I am sure that they would never guess that it is a mixture of plant extracts such as Melaleuca oil, aloe vera and citrus peel oil without cheating. And when you indeed use them and come up with the same product, you will have to come back and tell me how much it will cost including the proprietary processes to mix them to have the synergistic effects. We simply don't mix these components by stirring them together. You can rediscover the process, by which the patent attorneys will be all over your company, and the cheaper alternative for you is that we would gladly license the patented process to you for just $20 per bottle on top of your cost of the expensive high quality raw materials.

Many have tried to copy our product, even tried to combine the same basic main ingredients, and none were successful. I sure wish we could bring it down some more. Only the specific combination and a patented process of combining them were we able to produce an astounding revolutionary product that none from the market can compare to at the moment. Melaleuca oil is very expensive and without it, our product wouldn't be effective. Melaleuca oil at retail would only be around 5% pure and yet it would cost anywhere from $15 to $30 per 8 oz bottle. Likewise we take 10 to 20 lbs of organically grown aloe vera and utilize only 1 lb of the plant, and so cutting costs is not an easy task. In that 1 lb of the choicest part of Aloe vera is found the various phytochemicals, polysaccharides, vitamins, minerals, amino acids, acetylmannan, and nutrients that are edible to humans and usable by plants, all of these boosts the immunity of crops to pests, diseases, and other stresse giving plants Systemic Acquired Resistance. And you know how much the Aloe vera health supplement pills costs? And probably our cheapest component is citrus peel oils and even then, an 8-oz bottle at retail is at least $10 and that's just the citrus peel oil only, and it is only as good as Volck oil, which is cheaper. But we needed the three main ingredients to create AZ41 using a patented process. In fact we are freely sharing the information of the main ingredients of our products with the hope that someone else can make a cheaper process to bring the overall cost way down. We are not in this for pure profit, but to be content that we achieved a better and safer alternative to using toxic products when it comes to crop growing. We aim to develop many other next generation products that are safer and are at par or more effective than synthesized products. Often, we don't have the long term studies on how the some of the synthesized products can affect our health and our planet in the long term.

We don't synthesize any components of our products from fossil based resources. Our raw materials are grown by people. Many farmers all over the world grows them, we don't grab our materials from the seas at wanton for free. People grow our materials and we buy from them, creating better jobs for them. If you compare our main ingredients retail for retail because we are selling retail, you would find that we are a real bargain because of economies of scale. And we strive to keep our costs down.

Our product is an excellent companion to many nutritional conventional or organic products out there in the market, including that of Multi-Fix from AdBio and Grow More, and our product helps reduce the amount of fertilizer and eliminate the need to use of other conventional inputs such as fungicides, nematicides, insecticides, and other toxic chemicals.

AZ41 is in a category itself of being a very unique and revolutionary agricultural product. And it seems that your company is threatened when it should be complimentary. We are working with other companies at the moment, such as your direct competitor, New Technology products, equipment, consulting for algae control, odor control, oil spill cleanup bioremediation, biofertilizers crop enhancement, wastewater treatment- Advanced BioTech. (http://www.AdBio.com), and there are many others in the works. We will be excellent companion to your products.

If price is the problem, let the end user decide on our product. What we only ask of our potential users is to have an open mind and try our product as directed. If its benefits are not worth the price they pay for, we are not forcing them to re-order.

And from our current base of users, it is money well spent, as the total benefits far outweighs the cost of use. Benefits include the safest, non-toxic and most pleasant application, eliminating the need to use nematicides, fungicides, insecticides that are often toxic, and having mostly blemish-free squeakingly-clean agricultural products, very healthy plants, that gives you even better yield and tastier crops when you use it in addition to your existing nutrition program. Conventional or pure organic growing, AZ41 is applicable to both methods of crop production. We can transition the world into safer methods of growing and gardening, giving mankind excellent arsenal to achieve pesticide-free crops and healthier living.

Just for your thoughts.

Joe

CookieCows
03-25-2009, 02:02 PM
You should really start the spraying of AZ41 ASAP. The earlier you do it, the better off you will be as the season progresses. The weakest point of insect pests and diseases is during the early season when their population is starting to build up. The earlier the better. I am suspecting that AZ41 damages also the insect eggs preventing from further hatching.

For grapes, when you have about 4" to 6" bud, that is excellent time to start. I usually start spraying the roses at first sign of bud swell. Different plants have slightly different methods of application to maximize the benefits.

With grapes, it is recommended to pour diluted AZ41 (1 is to 1000 dilution) around the base of your grapes to control nematodes and other root problems. JB overwinters in the root zones and AZ41 will help a lot.

Our raisin farmers does all of these, foliar and drip, in their drip lines and mechanical sprayers.

You would love how the plants respond to AZ41 after a couple of sprayings.

I'm going to order it the beginning of next week so we'll be able to get started right away. Boy I tell ya, my husband and I are all in favor of automation and getting drip lines installed a little each year is being seriously discussed at our house!

Thanks a bunch!
Deb

bigdog
03-25-2009, 04:18 PM
That's some product you've got there, Joe! At least the claims are pretty amazing. Now you just need Billy Mays to sell it on a half hour infomercial, LOL! Only kidding...I hope that it works out as well as it sounds like it will!

There's a lot of passive-aggressive behavior in this thread.

Frank

Richard
03-25-2009, 04:27 PM
Richard,

... You are using illogical comparison and you don't seem to have any clue on how biochemistry works, and for that matter, an understanding of plant nutrition and plant protection.

No, that's definitely not the case. :D

Please prove me wrong by giving side by side fair comparisons defined as having the same guaranteed analysis ...


That's what I've done.


Yesterday I was at the Grow More facility in Los Angeles picking up supplies. I showed the chemical analysis of AZ41 to one of the Reps and he gave me a ball-park quote based on a truckload worth (10 pallets).

I encourage you to do the same with manufacturers in your area.

JoeReal
03-25-2009, 04:49 PM
That's some product you've got there, Joe! At least the claims are pretty amazing. Now you just need Billy Mays to sell it on a half hour infomercial, LOL! Only kidding...I hope that it works out as well as it sounds like it will!

There's a lot of passive-aggressive behavior in this thread.

Frank

Thanks for the reminder Frank! I promise to behave. Sometimes I get carried away if there are very unfair comparisons.

I too was a big skeptic of the product. I have been presented with scientific data, testimonials from small farmers to big growers. Suffice it to say that I had an open mind and tried it as directed. So now I am sharing this information.

Our botanist is from Australia, he used to be my graduate teacher, and he too was a big skeptic, working for Golden Circle and doing some consultation jobs with other big growers of bananas and olives and other crops as well as most big growers in the Asia-Pacific rim. But he kept an open mind and tried it, as the chief researcher and department head of Agronomy. So he conducted trials and he discovered many other properties of the product. He was so excited at the results and quit his job and became the Vice President for Research and Development of the Company. He later hunted me down to help lead the company. And I was a big skeptic of his claims!

When I approached Benny, he was very skeptic of what the product can do, and was reluctant to part his $50 for a 2-liter bottle. I had no time to explain to him all the scientific blah-blahs, so I just use the words "trust me, it works!". He only let go of his money when I gave handed a gift of home-made banana wine (which I owe him anyway from years past ). But I was sure glad that Benny has tested it for himself, and bought another bottle without any prodding. Anyone can read his excitement from his posts, and the amazing results he has observed.

All I ask from the fellow hobbyists is to try it. I would love to give you free trials, but we are just starting and it could bankrupt us, just the shipping costs alone, and more so because the raw components are very pricey, so we need help by at least paying some of it (I will give you my board member authorized commissions from each bottle ) . And after you test it and think that its benefits doesn't justify the cost, we can't force you to re-order.

And when you test, follow the directions carefully for maximum effectivity. We have used the products on various crops the world all over, got feedback from our users, and we have refined the use to minimize cost and maximize benefits. We found out that while the general dilution and application rate works well, each type of crop have different timing of use and dilution of the product to achieve maximum benefits. We haven't documented the various crops yet, but it is coming, and you can holler if you need specific applications that has not been listed yet.

Joe

CookieCows
03-25-2009, 05:12 PM
And when you test, follow the directions carefully for maximum effectivity. We have used the products on various crops the world all over, got feedback from our users, and we have refined the use to minimize cost and maximize benefits. We found out that while the general dilution and application rate works well, each type of crop have different timing of use and dilution of the product to achieve maximum benefits. We haven't documented the various crops yet, but it is coming, and you can holler if you need specific applications that has not been listed yet.

Joe

Joe you have a good reputation on this forum and I appreciate the added bonus of being able to talk to you about how to use it in ways that may not be written on the bottle. I'm sure I'm going to be PMing you at least once! Sharing knowledge, ideas, plants, products .... it's what it's all about. Belonging to this forum has huge perks!

paula
03-26-2009, 07:12 AM
Joe ,
Do I have to buy the big bottle?
How do I order?
I need to order as soon as possible because my fruit trees are getting
ready to bloom and I have had so many different problems with them
in the past. I would love to try this product.
Thank you very much,
Paula:woohoonaner:

JoeReal
03-26-2009, 01:32 PM
Joe ,
Do I have to buy the big bottle?
How do I order?
I need to order as soon as possible because my fruit trees are getting
ready to bloom and I have had so many different problems with them
in the past. I would love to try this product.
Thank you very much,
Paula:woohoonaner:


I replied to your PM about the small bottles.

paula
03-26-2009, 01:44 PM
I replied to your PM about the small bottles.

Thanks can't wait to try it.:nanadrink:

Richard
03-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Thanks can't wait to try it.:nanadrink:

I think you will be pleased with the results. As I have said many times in this thread, the contents of the product appear to be excellent.

What I don't understand is why the company is unwilling to pursue having the product made with the same guaranteed analysis for less cost by another reputable manufacturer?

harveyc
03-26-2009, 02:15 PM
For trade: Used 2003 Silverado pickup with 81,000 miles. Wanted: New Ferrari GTB Fiorano. I guarantee my vehicle, when analyzed by a lab, will have more steel, plastic, and rubber than the Ferrari so I think this is a great offer if you're looking to unload your death trap of a vehicle. :P

harveyc
03-26-2009, 02:17 PM
Richard, it's not all about guaranteed analysis. You've been told that enough times and I suggest you kindly leave this thread alone since your point has been made to the best as you've seem to have been able.

harveyc
03-26-2009, 02:20 PM
A man's got to know his limitations.

Harry Callahan, Magnum Force, 1973 (Clint Eastwood)

bigdog
03-26-2009, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the reminder Frank! I promise to behave. Sometimes I get carried away if there are very unfair comparisons.

I wasn't really referring to you...you weren't the aggressor.

I too was a big skeptic of the product. I have been presented with scientific data, testimonials from small farmers to big growers. Suffice it to say that I had an open mind and tried it as directed. So now I am sharing this information.

I appreciate you sharing this with us. I may have to look into it soon! Thanks,

Frank

JoeReal
03-26-2009, 03:33 PM
What I don't understand is why the company is unwilling to pursue having the product made with the same guaranteed analysis for less cost by another reputable manufacturer?

Richard,

The main reason why our product works is because of its ingredients which are plant extracts from Melaleuca, Aloe vera, and citrus peels combined together through a patented process to produce a final product that we sell. Without anyone of our main ingredients, our product will not work.

It is not the guaranteed analysis that makes our product work. The guaranteed analysis is shown as per requirements of USDA and EPA for a foliar blend specialty products like ours which is classified under fertilizer category. It is unique in that while classed under the fertilizer category, it has many special properties that common fertilizers out there cannot deliver.

I hope it is plainly clear that what makes our product work so good is because of its main ingredients and not because of its guaranteed analysis.

Thus I would truly appreciate it if you can suggest suppliers that have the lowest price of Melaleuca oil, the special Aloe vera gel extracts according to our specs, and the citrus peels oils. No company in the entire planet is able to synthesize these raw materials and thus the price. And the source plants are grown, cultivated, and harvested, not plundered for free from the oceans. So that is why the price. We love to lower the price, if we can get suppliers to bring their prices down. But demand for Melaleuca has been way up and the raw materials have not come down in price due to the fact people are opting to have healthier beneficial components into the pharmaceutical and health care products.

Yet, in spite of the price, benefits has so far outweighed the costs of buying and using the materials. Imagine that eliminating the need for insecticides, fungicides and nematicides while enhancing nutrient efficiency of your current practice and improving the yield. The elimination of toxic chemicals alone is priceless to some people who love gardening. Imagine how many lives can be improved and help minimize the use of some carcinogenic and toxic chemicals...

If you found cheaper suppliers of our main ingredients, that would really help. Guaranteed analysis do not help at all.


Joe

bencelest
03-26-2009, 04:41 PM
As Joe said: You can spray AZ41 without any nose protection and in fact the odor is like fresh shampoo or something, very mild and more or less smells like mild deodorant and you don't need to shield your body like from toxic chemicals like others sell on the market because the ingredients are all earthfriendly and as Joe said it can be classified as I forgot the term but something like if you grow a fruit and you don't use chemicals and if you sell the fruit and it is considered as?

harveyc
03-26-2009, 05:40 PM
Organic! ;)

Lagniappe
03-26-2009, 05:55 PM
What effect does AZ41 have on crustaceans?
Hope I didn't overlook the answer to this elsewhere in this thread.

Michael_Andrew
03-26-2009, 06:02 PM
I wonder if it would grow same hair on this bald spot?

Joe if you could pm me or post the particulars here I'd be interested in trying that smaller container.

JoeReal
03-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Our botanist called back and told me that there would be very minimal side effects if not beneficial. When you spray AZ41 it has been diluted, depending on your application, between 250 to 2000 times. The diluted spray if it drips to the pond would be further diluted, and so the effects are much attenuated that there should be no concern.

Unless you intend to use AZ41 for culturing crabs, prawns, crayfish... then we don't have studies for those yet.

JoeReal
03-26-2009, 06:13 PM
I wonder if it would grow same hair on this bald spot?

That's always been the punch line of one of our resellers because of the aloe vera! As long as you dilute it first... but I can't guarantee the hair growth, :)


I will PM you particulars...

bencelest
03-26-2009, 07:11 PM
HA!! Right YOU ARE Harvey. I've been raking my brains out all day for that term.
I know, I know, I have Alzheimer's.

Another benefits of AZ41 that I found:
While inspecting the many new buds of my citrus Joe's clemenule I notice a small gnat sort like a very small fly inside the bud but when I was about to touch it , it fell off on its own with its feet on top. It was dead as a door nail. Pretty stiff!!
That never happened to me before because I know those critters. Those critters with wings are the first ones to show first before the aphids. Always!. Once those critters appear on those buds looking so harmlessly, 3 days later you'll see newly born aphids clinging to the new buds where they used to be busily eating or sucking the bud's juices. It Never fails.
So now I know that AZ41 has a retentive preventive properties.
Sometimes I think those flies are pregnant female aphids with wings because why would it always appear first before newly born aphids appear?
So there, those critters were dead as a mackerel!!!! And I don't see aphids so far.
BTW I sprayed AZ41 about a week ago. And perhaps another spray about 10 days ago.

Richard
03-27-2009, 09:46 AM
Well I've endured a lot of name calling on this thread, but I think I'll be patient and keep trying to get an answer to my question.

After all, what more can they do to me! -- Bootstrap Bill :D

http://l.yimg.com/img.movies.yahoo.com/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/walt_disney/pirates_of_the_caribbean__dead_man_s_chest/_group_photos/orlando_bloom5.jpg

harveyc
03-27-2009, 01:54 PM
Well I've endured a lot of name calling on this thread

??? You must be reading minds, Richard! Just joking, on that part. Nobody has called you a name in this thread, other than "Richard". You may have had to endure a lot of posts where people have disagreed with your statements, however.

If anything in this thread comes close to name calling it's your first post in this thread where you indicate the price of AZ41 is "ridiculous". I guess that could be considered by some as calling Joe a gouger, though subsequent posts seem to indicate that wasn't your intent.


I think I'll be patient and keep trying to get an answer to my question.

I'm really puzzled by some of your statements like this, as well as your own refusal to answer questions. Joe has clearly told you that it's not all about guaranteed analysis. He couldn't really have been any more clear about that. He has reported that commercial growers have used the product with great success and Benny has been very pleased with its performance. I've asked you if you can provide any performance results for a product which you claim will be just as good but cost a lot less, but have not seen anything.

A rational argument regarding the pricing of AZ41 and the choice it's components would include a comparison to a specific alternative that has been shown to have substantially equal performance. We've seen no such comparison, however.

You're a friend of mine and so is Joe. I started this thread to inform others of a product that one friend (Joe) has been introducing but having what I believe are unjust critical comments by another friend (you) if very bothersome. I suggest you start over and read from the beginning of this thread and perhaps you'll see things in another light, I hope.

Thanks,

Harvey

bencelest
03-27-2009, 05:25 PM
I discovered something new of AZ41. I discovered that AZ41 is not Systemic. An hour ago when I was admiring the countless beautiful buds of my Washington navel and the budding flowers, I saw one single twig that were full of aphids such that you can't see the leaves but overlapping one on top of each other a school of aphids- only that one particular twig. Needless to say I got me the AZ41 and sprayed the heck out of them. A bunch of them landed on my hands dead as a squirrel. Nothing moving.
Also whatever is left of the AZ41 I sprayed it on my bananas and other plants inside my glass roof top greenhouse and I noticed a few white flies flying. I was not sure where they come from but I think that they came from another yard or from the bark of my persimmon tree because there, when I sprayed them I saw some more of white flies.
Another thing that interest me though was that when I was spraying the bark of my persimmons, I saw this housefly that were crawling slowly and seemed to be disoriented and was too weak to fly . But it's been 2 minutes and still slowly crawling away from me. She was kinda high about 7 feet high so I divert my eyes for a second and I could not find her anymore. I just wonder if AZ41 can affect house flies.
The good part is I saw 2 ladybugs in my plum tree and one in my Washington navel.
I'll see if the white flies come back in 3 days or so.

JoeReal
03-27-2009, 05:57 PM
Benny,

The Systemic Acquired Resistance takes some time to build depending on the crop. Aphids, Scales and other insects will come from other sources and they don't immediately die when they start to establish. But your spraying as scheduled in the instruction will keep their population from exploding so that your yard would remain relatively clean of these insect pests.

I know your citruses will soon be in full swing, so don't overdo the spraying especially when your citrus flower buds starts to open en masse:

For conventional citruses:
When more than half of your citrus buds have opened, stop spraying until the petals are starting to fall, or after 15 days of peak bloom, whichever comes first. Never mind any insect pests coming, they will all soon fall dead. After the petal fall, you can resume the spray schedule. This time, when you mix your AZ41 spray solution, you can buy the Miracle Gro (24-8-16 ) soluble fertilizer with minors and mix 1 tsp of Miracle Gro and 1/4 tsp of epsom salt per gallon of spray mix. Never exceed 1 tsp per gallon of Miracle Gro! That will give your citruses very nice shiny dark green leaves that are very clean and lovely. It will then translate into bigger, luscious looking, blemish-free fruits that are sweeter and you can be proud to take pictures of.

If you are into pure organic growing, you can replace the Miracle Gro with some of the foliar organic fertilizer along with AZ41 mixture and there is a wide range of formulations, so just follow their instructions, but instead of water volume for the mixing, you use AZ41 mixture that you normally prepare.

I know your plants have been better looking, but you will even have better looking plants and much better looking fruits this time around!

Regards,

Joe



I discovered something new of AZ41. I discovered that AZ41 is not Systemic. An hour ago when I was admiring the countless beautiful buds of my Washington navel and the budding flowers, I saw one single twig that were full of aphids such that you can't see the leaves but overlapping one on top of each other a school of aphids- only that one particular twig. Needless to say I got me the AZ41 and sprayed the heck out of them. A bunch of them landed on my hands dead as a squirrel. Nothing moving.
Also whatever is left of the AZ41 I sprayed it on my bananas and other plants inside my glass roof top greenhouse and I noticed a few white flies flying. I was not sure where they come from but I think that they came from another yard or from the bark of my persimmon tree because there, when I sprayed them I saw some more of white flies.
Another thing that interest me though was that when I was spraying the bark of my persimmons, I saw this housefly that were crawling slowly and seemed to be disoriented and was too weak to fly . But it's been 2 minutes and still slowly crawling away from me. She was kinda high about 7 feet high so I divert my eyes for a second and I could not find her anymore. I just wonder if AZ41 can affect house flies.
The good part is I saw 2 ladybugs in my plum tree and one in my Washington navel.
I'll see if the white flies come back in 3 days or so.

bencelest
03-27-2009, 07:05 PM
Joe:
I believe that one particular twig that were full of aphids is a twig that I missed spraying. In fact I was sure of it for it was further up and was hiding from view. I know I missed that twig for sure. AZ41 is as you said kill on contact as it was claimed so there was no contradiction with what you said and with my experience.
Again the Systemec Acquired Resistance as you said will take some time to achieve and I am just so new using this wonderful stuff.
I am extremely happy with the results so far.
The bugs that I dreaded the most did not materialized so far and I am very sure that AZ41 will take care of them if they come. But I think their eggs did not hatch and they already gone to kingdom come.
Why do you think I bought another 2-litter? That's very unusual for me to do.

CookieCows
04-02-2009, 11:25 PM
My AZ41 arrived today!! :goteam:

JoeReal
04-03-2009, 01:46 AM
For AZ41 to be truly effective as a bio-stimulant and crop protectant, remember to spray regularly every 15 days, until the Systemic Acquired Resistance (SAR) builds up in your plants. Do not spray when you only have a problem. It takes time for the plants to become healthier and stronger against pests and diseases. This is due to effect of acetylated mannan (acetylmannan ) from the aloe vera component which is known to impart SAR.

JoeReal
04-03-2009, 01:56 AM
Richard, you don't have any basis to classify my mode of thinking. You're such a genius that you read minds as well???

I've purchased large volumes of farm chemicals and fertilizers for 15 years and receive many trade publications. I've read of and tried many products based on claims, sometimes not supported. Some have said they perform as well as or better than another product, but have not.

You're still playing games and wasting my time. Put up a product for me to try.

Joe, are you going to offer AZ41 in smaller containers than the 2 liter bottle presently on your web site so that hobbyists can try it at a more reasonable cost? I believe 2 liters is more than many hobbyists would need.

Harvey,

The 8-oz bottles are up. For $10, it would be good enough for a whole year for a small yard. Unless you produce a lot more fruits or veggies, then you would need about 2 small 8-oz bottles.

We still need to make the ordering smoother. Our programmer is just starting to do the secured ordering system, so it could take some time before everything can be running smoothly. Anyone can shoot a PM here, then I can give discounts. Our coupon discounts for fellow members is not yet implemented.

Joe

sirmoebly
04-03-2009, 12:41 PM
Well you guys talked me into it, I order mine today. I have fruit trees & I'll put it to the test....

john_ny
04-03-2009, 01:54 PM
OK, I got the two little bottles. I assume they are both the same, as contents, and directions are the same, but they have different pictures on the labels, and one says ...for roses, ornamentals... and the other says ...tropicals, sub tropicals...
On the direction sheet, it says something like excess diluted product may be stored for up to a month at a time. Is a month about the limit for storing? I guess it's better to try to mix only what you can use right away.

JoeReal
04-03-2009, 02:41 PM
OK, I got the two little bottles. I assume they are both the same, as contents, and directions are the same, but they have different pictures on the labels, and one says ...for roses, ornamentals... and the other says ...tropicals, sub tropicals...
On the direction sheet, it says something like excess diluted product may be stored for up to a month at a time. Is a month about the limit for storing? I guess it's better to try to mix only what you can use right away.

John,

Some of them have slightly different instructions. For example, we do not recommend spraying the subtropicals that remain evergreen through the winter if grown outside. Since I cannot cram all of the info into itty bitty label, I put them into two different labels for two bottles. They are exactly the same formulation, however.

The concentrate has indefinite storage and it improves with time, kind of like wine, based on accounts of some of our users. With antimicrobial properties and very stable, it does have excellent shelf life.

The mixed solution storage will depend on the type of water you have and the type of container. If water is contaminated, it may not be good to let it stand for a while. Definitely, stainless steel containers, food grade plastic containers and glass are the best because they have the fewest reaction or bonding with the ingredients, easier to clean to. But cheap plastic containers are good for short-term storage of the mixed solution, by up to a month. Being oil-based and you have plastic containers, some of the components could bind in the plastic, but that should stabilize if you use the same plastic storage container over and over, as the bonded sites would reach saturation point. Well, I have one stored for more than month and still effective, I just have to stir it really well. But the best option is to water the excess mixture into your other plants if you can't use it within a month, :)

john_ny
04-03-2009, 02:58 PM
Thanks, Joe. Water here is no problem; regular New York City tap water - probably some of the best and safest in the nation.

JoeReal
04-03-2009, 03:38 PM
Thanks, Joe. Water here is no problem; regular New York City tap water - probably some of the best and safest in the nation.

You can send some of those nice water over to me!

Our city water has a pH of 7.5 to 8.6! And here I am, growing blueberries, bananas, citruses, and about 500 cultivars in all. It is challenging, it keeps me on my toes.

paula
04-04-2009, 05:28 PM
Joe, found a new use for AZ41, I was spaying my plum trees that a am trying to grow on a trellis.Sprayed AZ41 on them and noticed that the green algae on the trellis was going away so I grabbed the camera. I could have sprayed the trellis more but didn't want to waste my AZ41.Just wanted to share.http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=16439&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16439&ppuser=1005)Beforehttp://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=16440&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16440&ppuser=1005)After
I have tried the power washer and that works, however it also breaks the branches on the tree.
And the AZ41 worked great.

paula
04-04-2009, 06:38 PM
Joe you had sent me two small bottles, took no time at all. And the process was easy . I went though paypal. I just put it on all my fruit trees. I can not wait to see the results.
Also I have read in some of the threads about the price. I think it is reasonable
especially if it works. Thanks again. Paula
:goteam::nanadrink:

JoeReal
04-07-2009, 02:15 AM
Joe, found a new use for AZ41, I was spaying my plum trees that a am trying to grow on a trellis.Sprayed AZ41 on them and noticed that the green algae on the trellis was going away so I grabbed the camera. I could have sprayed the trellis more but didn't want to waste my AZ41.Just wanted to share.... After I have tried the power washer and that works, however it also breaks the branches on the tree.
And the AZ41 worked great.

Thanks Paula. AZ41 is a good fruit and leaf cleaner and was surprised it helped cleaned your trellis!

JoeReal
04-07-2009, 02:19 AM
Not banana related but I'm excited to report tonight from my field team that 266 acres in Orisi, California was approved to use AZ41 from California Certified Organic Farmers.

A VINEYARD for fresh table grape consumption! Using AZ41, the farmer has been producing blemish-free table grapes for the fresh fruit market, and the grapes has been tested to not show any pesticidal residues and other toxic chemicals and so the farm has passed the CCOF certification program. Imagine the savings of not having to use insecticides, nematicides and fungicides, not to mention increase yield and very clean, blemish-free certified organically grown fresh table grapes.

Our team is currently marketing to nearby farmers in the Sunview and Delano farms. I wish there are banana farms in the Central Valley. I could only dream about it. There's one around the Monterey coastal areas. We're grooming some resellers in that area.

Richard
04-07-2009, 03:40 AM
Not banana related but I'm excited to report tonight from my field team that 266 acres in Orisi, California was approved to use AZ41 from California Certified Organic Farmers.

Congratulations Joe! What is the difference between the CCOF certification and CDFA Certified Organic?

JoeReal
04-07-2009, 09:13 AM
Congratulations Joe! What is the difference between the CCOF certification and CDFA Certified Organic?

CDFA certifies the registration of fertilizer through FELDERS, before they are sold in California. This is to make sure it will be handled properly in a certain store/facility/distribution center of your sellers or resellers. They will also approve the labeling of your fertilizer product. After making sure that you have dealt with all toxicity issues and other safety protocols, and it is found in the labeling of your product, the CDFA will then categorize your type of fertilizer, and give you your registration number to sell in California.

CCOF on the other hand certifies the farm production to make sure it meets the definition of organic farming in California. If all the farm inputs are listed in OMRI, then the process of certification is a lot quicker, and will only have to deal with the residual non-OMRI inputs from years past. For farm inputs that do not belong in the current listing of OMRI, farmers will have to send samples of the input or their documentations such as ingredient listing, MSDS, toxicology reports, etc., to CCOF for review and approval. AZ41 is still in the process of OMRI registration and certification, and so it has to be scrutinized by CCOF. So far we have about 20 small to medium sized farms that uses AZ41 and are certified by CCOF out of the more than 400 current total users in the Central Valley. CCOF folks are very friendly and helpful, and has been giving us encouragement and guidance in the OMRI registration.

harveyc
04-07-2009, 09:16 AM
Congrats, Joe!

I know a little about this, Richard. I don't believe there is such a thing as CDFA Certified Organic since we now have national standards and see USDA Certified Organic labels on foods. But the USDA does not certify anyone but instead has a list of approved certifiers. CCOF was the original organic organization in California, even before there were any state or federal standards. When California adopted standards in 1979, they used CCOF's standards. There are several other certifiers for California but many feel using the original association is most desirable. Many in the organic industry wish the USDA never got involved, though it still seems to work okay.

jasonlotp
04-07-2009, 12:13 PM
Joe,
My AZ41 arrived yesterday and I mixed up a batch and sprayed everything, even plants (i.e. guavas) with no apparent bug problems. Perhaps it will boost their growth too. The stuff smells nice and is definitely a lot nicer than the rank lime sulfur I last sprayed.
So the systemic acquired resistance is built up if I spray every 15 days? How long do I keep this up for? Forever? Even if I spray every two weeks each 8oz bottle will last me a year, a little goes a long way.
-Jason

JoeReal
04-07-2009, 12:34 PM
For the evergreen types like citruses, avocadoes and guavas, you spray until the last day of Fall. The best times to start spraying religiously is during spring growth flush for the evergreens. Other fruit types have their own application timing. Then after a couple of months, as the season gets dryer, you can switch into maintenance mode, and spray once a month until harvest. When problems come up nearing harvest time, such as other bugs, and commonly the fog which can cause fungal diseases to the fruits, you have to resume spraying just before the forecast of series of fogs or rains.

AZ41 is designed to be applied regularly as a bio-stimulant and nutrition supplement with insecticidal, fungicidal and nematicidal properties, so it is treated like using foliar fertilizers. Do not use it when you only have problems. It is designed to improve yield, improve health of plants even when under infestations, and produce cleaner fruits and leaves.

Normally, there is just a total of about 8 to 10 sprayings (some could be more, depending on the insect and disease pressure ) in a normal growing season, but it is important to be aggressive during the start of the growing season and then towards the harvest time.

Richard
04-07-2009, 09:03 PM
Joe, that's interesting about the product certification. From the point of view of someone who wants to grow "Certified Organic Produce" here in San Diego County, the grower (or hired consultant) works directly with CDFA and the County Agricultural office to register, perform remediations, and maintain compliance. As you know, it mostly boils down to staying on the formulary list. An interesting quirk is that a farming concern can file for an exception and with merit and a lot of patience, receive it. However, this exception does not become part of the formulary list. A savvy grower can go through the exception filings and very quickly have it apply to their site.

sirmoebly
04-10-2009, 08:54 AM
Thanks JoeReal, Got it yesterday, You got the recorded for fastest shipping!! I don't get local mail that fast (seriously). Just wanted to tell you I had so much fun spraying my fruit trees & gardern plants & banana plants... I use to hate spraying, there are so many nasty chemicals out there you have to becareful with.... This was the first time I sprayed & had a good night of sleep!!! Looking forward to spraying again. (can't believe I said that) Having something safe means alot... I give it a A+ so far...
Thanks again.... moe

Patty in Wisc
04-10-2009, 10:57 AM
I sprayed my big IC nanna last weekend & it sure looked greener & shinier the next day. I also sprayed plants in my sunroom - some w/ aphids, & I don't see aphids anymore...at least for now.
I used to use Messenger as a foliar spray. S'posed to be this "miracle" patented formula for plants. Comes in dry packets to mix w/ 1 gallon water. Each packet costs about $2.50 (that's for 1 GAL!!!). I don't think it was so great - esp for the $$.
Richard, you think $50.00 is a lot for 2 litre?! At 1 TBLS per gal, this should go a LONG way.
My 8oz ($10.00) bottle will make 16 gallons. That's $1.60 a gal.
A 2 litre bottle will make about 125 gallons @ .40 cents per gal mixed.
Correct me if I'm wrong on my math but I don't think so.
I think this stuff will make a killing. Thanks Joe.

Richard
04-10-2009, 11:38 AM
...
Richard, you think $50.00 is a lot for 2 litre?! At 1 TBLS per gal, this should go a LONG way. ...

What if it was the same formula and same concentration for $20 per 2 litre? As a raw ingredient, lignosulfonates from melaleuca pulp mills cost only a few pennies above the shipping charges to the U.S.

sirmoebly
04-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Totally agree, thats why I bought the big bottle.

harveyc
04-10-2009, 02:45 PM
What if it was the same formula and same concentration for $20 per 2 litre? As a raw ingredient, lignosulfonates from melaleuca pulp mills cost only a few pennies above the shipping charges to the U.S.

What do you mean by "what if"? Do you know of a source for a manufactured product with the same ingredients? Where are you coming up with the $20 figure?

Chironex
04-10-2009, 02:46 PM
I need to get some of this stuff.

hatfam
04-10-2009, 06:12 PM
Just placed my order. :2722: Can't wait to try it. Any chance this stuff will control mosquitos :) I'd pay $200.00 a galllon to rid my deck of those little blood suckers.

Patty in Wisc
04-10-2009, 07:54 PM
I think I'll get the big bottle! I want to pour some in my hair and, maybe a soak in the bathtub LOL. If it made my leaves look good in a day - what the heck! It's prolly cheaper than a good hair rinse LOL. The stuff smells nice too!

..Richard, I think Joe said there are patents or copyrights on this so if someone tries to copy it to sell for less than half, something would definately be missing from it & it wouldn't be as good.

Richard
04-10-2009, 08:01 PM
... Richard, I think Joe said there are patents or copyrights on this so if someone tries to copy it to sell for less than half, something would definately be missing from it & it wouldn't be as good.

Patty, I have never said anything remotely close to the idea of someone copying the product.

I need to get some of this stuff.

Yes, I'd like to try it on my grapes this year.

Chironex
04-10-2009, 08:04 PM
I would be afraid that it would make me taller! And I am too old for the NBA. Maybe I will rub some on my piggy bank.

Patty in Wisc
04-10-2009, 09:37 PM
Scot, it might make us turn green too! And, it'll get rid of any bugs we have LOL.
Richard, you said:
"Patty, I have never said anything remotely close to the idea of someone copying the product."

..And before that:
Originally Posted by Richard
"What if it was the same formula and same concentration for $20 per 2 litre?"
...Well, isn't that the same as copying? Or trying to?

I'm also confused about this 'Grow More'. You referred to them as "they" and then you referred to them as "my product". Did I read this wrong? or is 'your' product something different?

Interesting ... My product will be for hydroponic injector systems and not foliar spray.
What is in Grow More? Thanks

sirmoebly
04-10-2009, 10:39 PM
Patty you are instigating, Chironex I already tried that (piggy bank) it didn't work... IF you have any other ideas let me know.....

Chironex
04-10-2009, 10:42 PM
Patty you are instigating, Chironex I already tried that (piggy bank) it didn't work... IF you have any other ideas let me know.....
I might bury it in biochar then. :ha:

sirmoebly
04-10-2009, 11:05 PM
Just got done reading that thread bio char thats pretty good (las vegas stuff....)I got a laugh.....

harveyc
04-10-2009, 11:09 PM
Patty, I have never said anything remotely close to the idea of someone copying the product.

Richard, it's quite easy to interpret your statement as meaning that was what you had planned. Making vague comments often results in people drawing incorrect conclusions. It would be much more helpful if you made clear statements on what you mean.



Patty you are instigating

Huh? I don't think so.



I visited Joe yesterday since I had other business in Davis and got myself some large bottles of AZ41 to experiment further. He shared some interesting results with a raisin grape farmers who was very happy with the results last year and now his neighbors have come on board. I hope this works out great for you and your partners, Joe!

Harvey

Richard
04-10-2009, 11:12 PM
... What is in Grow More? ...

Patty,
Joe said he would be interested in a way to lower his costs in the production of his product without changing the formula. One of my suppliers believes that they can do just that, and gave a ballpark estimate. It is up to Joe whether he wants to pursue it or not. I have said many times in this thread that I have no interest in starting a manufacturing plant or contracting the production of anything with a pest control function. And it is also worth saying again that I believe that Joe has developed an excellent product. :)

"Grow More" itself is a manufacturing company headquartered in Los Angeles, CA. Here's a link: Grow More (http://www.growmore.com)

Chironex
04-10-2009, 11:16 PM
Can we move on now? Seriously, this is becoming monotonous.

harveyc
04-10-2009, 11:19 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Richard.

To be honest, since you've said that you're working with Grow More in developing a hydroponic fertilizer I really wondered if they were going to come out with a product similar to AZ41.

Joe told me yesterday that the melaleuca oil in AZ41 is oil is extracted in a particular manner that is an important factor in the formulation, so that might make a difference.

When I look at the cost per acre of applying AZ41 on a commercial basis it is rather insignificant even if it is only moderately effective.

sirmoebly
04-10-2009, 11:25 PM
Harveyc, don't get your feathers flustered I was just joking around. Everything will be alright......

harveyc
04-10-2009, 11:30 PM
Moe, my feathers are fine but my hair is turning gray. However, that has nothing to do with this thread ;)

Richard
04-11-2009, 12:04 AM
Moe, my feathers are fine but my hair is turning gray. However, that has nothing to do with this thread ;)

Try Escitalopram.

harveyc
04-11-2009, 12:14 AM
Will that make me younger??? I sure don't need anything for anxiety.

Maybe AZ41 would help, but I don't see a need for worrying about my gray hair. ;)

sirmoebly
04-11-2009, 12:42 AM
Well they do have some awesome color you can get now. (Just joking)

momoese
04-11-2009, 09:02 AM
Just placed my order. :2722: Can't wait to try it. Any chance this stuff will control mosquitos :) I'd pay $200.00 a galllon to rid my deck of those little blood suckers.

Look into CO2 generator mosquito traps. Here is a good article to start with before buying one. Btw our fearless leader "Mediahound" has one and says they work great for him.

Carbon Dioxide Mosquito Traps No Magic Bullet, Say UF Experts (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050607013042.htm)

paula
04-11-2009, 10:04 AM
Can anyone tell me why there is so much talk about the price of AZ41?
You either buy it or you don't. I don't what to sound mean, but if it works
then it works if not you don't buy it any more. I myself think it worth a shot.

Patty in Wisc
04-11-2009, 02:37 PM
I don't mean to 'instigate' but to answer your question, here's where it started:

The website store lists $49.95 for a two-liter bottle. This is a ridiculous price. I can obtain a surprisingly equivalent product from Grow More and sell it for $10.85 with a 100% profit.

paula
04-11-2009, 02:44 PM
Thanks Patty, I was just wondering. I hope now we can move on .
I would like to know what people think about the product. I applied
a week ago. Seems to be working , But it has been raining the last couple of days. I think I might have to spray again.

Patty in Wisc
04-11-2009, 02:54 PM
Hi Paula, read back for some testimonials!
If you sprayed a few hours before it rained, it already absorbed thru the leaves & you won't have to spray for another 2-3 weeks.

paula
04-11-2009, 03:33 PM
Thanks again Patty.

JoeReal
04-13-2009, 03:21 AM
What if it was the same formula and same concentration for $20 per 2 litre? As a raw ingredient, lignosulfonates from melaleuca pulp mills cost only a few pennies above the shipping charges to the U.S.

It is not the same Richard, and never will be! I hope you did not fell asleep in your Biochemistry class, :) Lignosulfonates IS NOT Melaleuca Oil and WILL NOT WORK the same way as Melaleuca oil! You are throwing your money for nothing. Yes, even if it will cost $0.01, you will still be throwing away a penny for nothing.

Last time I checked, the wholesale price of organically extracted Melaleuca oil is $70 per quart. There are cheaper Melaleuca oil, about $40/quart which are extracted using man-made solvents and they don't qualify for organic growing according to OMRI. Residual synthetic solvents can be very bad for your health, so we avoid it like the plague.

Our manufacturing plant is USDA Certified organic, from plant materials to processing to the final product. We don't use any synthetic solvents and all of our oils are extracted using physical processes. We are being audited by Texas Department of Agriculture to make sure we are 100% compliant with the USDA Organically approved methods, and our production facilities are closely monitored by the USDA, Oregon Tilth, and the International Aloe Science Council.

JoeReal
04-13-2009, 03:28 AM
What do you mean by "what if"? Do you know of a source for a manufactured product with the same ingredients? Where are you coming up with the $20 figure?

I think Richard may be unto something here when he clarifies it for us. I know for sure that 100% organic certified ingredients, from processing to final formulation is going to cost an arm and a leg for us, but if it makes the product very safe and work effectively, the final cost is minimal compared to benefits.

Imagine, no need to spray for canker on your citruses, yes, it works well with canker if you follow the spray program early on, right after petal fall. Farmers in the Philippines are able to produce canker-free fruits. Perhaps Florida should try this on their citruses.

Then there is no need to apply nematicides, insecticides and fungicides. How many toxic products have you eliminated? And most of all, your health is priceless, especially to free the end user from being exposed to synthetic and toxic chemicals.

JoeReal
04-13-2009, 03:39 AM
Just placed my order. :2722: Can't wait to try it. Any chance this stuff will control mosquitos :) I'd pay $200.00 a galllon to rid my deck of those little blood suckers.

hatfam,

unfortunately, it doesn't repel mosquitoes but will kill them on contact. Also if you spray on a pond, it will cause the mosquitoes to sink, because it breaks the surface tension of water. So, as they lay eggs on the water surface, the mosquitoes will literally sink and drown. But after being diluted with the pond water, the surface tension returns. So the effect is only temporary for mosquitoes but could cause significant damage to their population. I wouldn't count on AZ41 to control your mosquitoes, but you can try. You would still need a natural repellant.

One of the ways we use to kill a lot of mosquitoes is to mix 1 part lemon-scented dish washing soap to ten parts water and then place the mixture on plenty of shallow dishes or pans by the porch. The mosquitoes are somehow attracted to it, and they drown in it. I know there is a specific brand of dish washing soap that works the best, can't recall at the moment.

Joe

JoeReal
04-13-2009, 03:50 AM
I visited Joe yesterday since I had other business in Davis and got myself some large bottles of AZ41 to experiment further. He shared some interesting results with a raisin grape farmers who was very happy with the results last year and now his neighbors have come on board. I hope this works out great for you and your partners, Joe!

Harvey

Thanks Harvey!

We may be going to run out of stock this week! All of our inventory that is about to arrive have already been committed to 5 major raisin grape growers in Caruthers. That's about 6,000 bottles in all. Needed to sell total of 18,000 bottles in our first year to break even.

The late season rains and the warming trend spells panic to powdery mildews on grapes when it is flowering, that's why the orders suddenly surged! Usually, they order by first week of May. Last year, the other grape farmers have seen the very clean grape farms, free from powdery mildew from those farmers that applied AZ41.

bencelest
04-13-2009, 10:11 PM
Yes, And I don't have powdery mildew for the first time in years since I've grown my Fuji apples since I used the AZ41.
Thank you Joe for a wonderful and very promising product.
I used to have a very acute case of powdery mildew year after year.

Benny

BTW, I just got back today from a family vacation in Maui and the first thing I inspected were my bananas and my new grafts and any aphids or powdery mildew. None so far and the new buds of my citrus are so luscious and so many all healthy looking because there were no bugs that eat them. I attribute this to AZ41.

sirmoebly
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
All I know is I can't wait to see how well it does this year on my garden and fruit crops!!!! All I am asking is to eat a plum without a worm in it.....but I do see inprovements on my plants in my basement already....Growing good & healthy....

bencelest
04-16-2009, 08:12 AM
Yeah! I am contemplating a good harvest this year.
I've never seen such good growing habits of my plants. And look at those blossoms coming out!
And my tomatoes are growing so perfectly. Without those silly whiteflies!

paula
04-16-2009, 08:22 AM
I used it on my plum trees , and there is so many blossoms. This is the first year they looked so good . Usually they just fall off right away . I can't wait
to see what happens.:goteam:

bencelest
04-16-2009, 02:47 PM
I just posted this to another forum- the citrus foorum.

"I just came back from a family vacation. The first thing I checked was my plants. I am surprised how wonderful they look. My citrus plants have never looked so good specially Joe's clemenule and my Washington navel. Both of them are in full bloom of new buds. Not a single deformity due to aphids. No sign of aphids or other insects. My papaya, tomatoes and Fuji apples which in the past have full of aphids white flies and powdery mildew are the same way. There are No signs of bugs in them.

In the past I struggled every year with aphids, powdery mildew and white flies. I used every product in the book but no dice. None of them works.
NO MORE.
I attribute all of this to AZ41.
I used all kinds of insecticides before but none came up close as effective as AZ41.
I think this product will be as famous as barbie doll.
So watch out Joe.
You will be inundated with orders once they found out how effective your product is.
So, please save me some.

Benny "

JoeReal
04-16-2009, 03:44 PM
Thanks Benny!

Our major market are the commercial crop growers. We sold out on our stock for the commercial growers and it will be one week before the next batch will be finished processing. Our recent orders of 6,000 big bottles just went to 5 farmers and we have to "borrow" from them to fill some of our online orders while waiting for the next batch.

I ran out of small bottles last night. Will make more tonight. We will be buying automatic bottling machine soon. Our online sales to the hobbyists have not built up that much yet, considering that we just started a few weeks ago, while marketing and testing at farmers fields are four years ahead.

Chironex
04-16-2009, 04:56 PM
Well, I need two small bottles Joe. Let me know when and where to do so. Thanks!

paula
04-16-2009, 05:09 PM
Me to Joe Please save me two small bottles I would like to get them before you run out again. and thanks Paula

proletariatcsp
04-26-2009, 01:13 PM
I have been struggling with my pineapples for some time, neem and dishsoap seem to kill on contact but they do nothing for the soil and roots. It has to be applied every 2-3 days to have any effect, and it is burdensome because I can't use my tap water (salt/chlorine).

I would like to try this product, but nothing is listed on the website?

Chris in FL <proletariatcsp@yahoo.com>

JoeReal
04-26-2009, 08:09 PM
We sold out a week ago, we didn't anticipate the sudden demand of raisin farmers in Caruthers and so ran out of products for the hobbyists. Our next batch is coming within 12 days (and even then, most of it is committed or reserved to just 5 big growers ordering 6,000 big bottles), and hopefully we can open the online stores again. If you need to try them urgently, you can PM me and I can rebottle manually for you from my own personal stock, or wait within two weeks for the stores to open. I don't have anything available for the big bottle orders at the moment, only the 8-oz bottles.

Taylor
04-26-2009, 09:30 PM
I missed where to buy this and don't want to go through the 8 pages to find it. Does anyone have the link on-hand? Thanks!

:)

harveyc
04-26-2009, 11:44 PM
Taylor, as Joe mentioned above, you can only arrange it right now through a PM to him since they are officially out of stock. Otherwise, you can wait until they get some more in stock and order it at Store (http://www.greenerearthtech.com/cmsmain/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=76&vmcchk=1&Itemid=76).

Ohio'sBest
08-01-2009, 12:28 PM
I used a product before for my roses, and it worked great. Since PM is systemic problem, I know it is hard to get rid of. But I think it is for ornamentals only. Meltatox.

Richard
08-01-2009, 12:47 PM
... you can only arrange it right now through a PM to him ...

... Since PM is systemic problem, I know it is hard to get rid of.

PM can be turned off in "User CP" under "Edit Options". This is especially useful if you no longer wish to receive messages from Rat (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/rat.htm), Whisper (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/whisper.htm), FanBoy (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/fanboy.htm), etc.

Ohio'sBest
08-01-2009, 01:15 PM
PM can be turned off in "User CP" under "Edit Options". This is especially useful if you no longer wish to receive messages from Rat (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/rat.htm), Whisper (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/whisper.htm), FanBoy (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/fanboy.htm), etc.

Richard, Richard, Richard..................why do you flame me so much? The PM I was referring to was POWDERY MILDEW.

Richard
08-01-2009, 01:19 PM
The PM I was referring to was POWDERY MILDEW.

Thanks!

djmb74
10-29-2009, 05:23 PM
Anyone have an idea what happened to Joe? Tried to contact him in reference to getting some AZ41 and have not heard anything...

bencelest
10-29-2009, 05:54 PM
The last time I heard from him was he is setting up a commercial wine factory. He offered me to be a contributor as part owner but I don't have the cash.
There is a good prospect to his citrus and fruit wines that earned some of them double first place and out of his 33 entries I think he received 29 medals out of 33 entries and some of them double first place. I got me a bunch of samples from him a while back and I think he'll go far. But he's got problems with the government gods that require him endless requirements to set up a new product. That's why he's not doing any entries as far as I know.

djmb74
10-29-2009, 05:59 PM
so no more AZ41?

harveyc
10-29-2009, 07:40 PM
The last I heard 2-3 weeks ago Joe said their cost of supplies had gone up a lot and they were trying to get other sources. He's just very busy these days working on lots of new things.

For the record, this was a private conversation yet there was nothing secretive about it and I still haven't talked to Joe about other members of the forum. My main reason for calling Joe was to talk to him about trying to pick prickly pears for him to make a batch of wine.

sunfish
09-04-2012, 05:56 PM
Possibly the last unopened jug

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/006-17.jpg

harveyc
09-04-2012, 06:02 PM
I've got more :)

sunfish
09-04-2012, 06:16 PM
I've got more :)

So have I :):08:

momoese
09-04-2012, 11:20 PM
If you have more that means you are not using it. Get busy!

sunfish
09-04-2012, 11:34 PM
If you have more that means you are not using it. Get busy!

Like fine wine.Collectors' Item :ha:

harveyc
09-05-2012, 06:29 PM
Speaking of wine, Joe has been winning quite a few gold medals at California state and county fairs with his various fruit wines. He is attempting to raise capital to go commercial.

sunfish
09-05-2012, 06:55 PM
How about some Pindo wine

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/003-26.jpg