View Full Version : How to succeed with TC's from AgriStarts
Richard
03-03-2009, 03:33 PM
Several people are nervously awaiting the order of TC's from AgriStarts and other sources (see thread http://www.bananas.org/f2/agri-starts-7102.html). Some of these folks are wondering how to be successful with their new babies.
Generally, your goal is to increase the size of the corm to football (that's US football) size or larger -- and the rest will take care of itself. Of course, the devil is in the details ... :D
Now here's what one devil would do, but I'm hoping that the rest of you will also share your approaches too!
1. the temperature should not drop below 50 F (10 C).
2. the humidity should not drop below 50%.
3. the soil media should not be dry, nor soggy -- but magically in between.
4. the light should be filtered (50% shade cloth) from midday to evening.
5. "dope" your water with 1/4 tablespoon per gallon of a 10-20-30 or 10-30-20 water-soluble fertilizer for 2 to 4 weeks.
6. gently transplant to a larger pot after the TC shows signs of steady growth (possibly tiny growth) for 5 days.
7. wait 3 months or until the plant is rootbound (whichever is less) until transplanting again.
8. put the plant outdoors when the daily low temperature is above 50 F (10 C).
sunfish
03-03-2009, 03:56 PM
I know how important it is to have soil that does not hold to much moisture.
Any suggestion for a soil mix.
just j
03-03-2009, 05:18 PM
I know how important it is to have soil that does not hold to much moisture.
Any suggestion for a soil mix.
i always use the miracal grow brand potting mix it is the best draining soil i have seen and not too expensive around 8 bucks a big bag the little roots can grow real easy in it
Ueberwinden
03-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Sunfish,
I used coco coir for all of the bananas that I just received from Agri-Starts. A brick should fill 3 one gallon pots and a block should fill 29 gallon pots. You expect to pay about $2.50- $3.00 for a brick and a block is about $12.00.
Here it just a little bit of info on Coir
Eco Friendly CoCo Coir Peat
CoCo Coir Peat is a multi-purpose soil conditioner and growing medium. It is consistent and uniform in texture. It is a completely homogenous material composed of millions of capillary micro-sponges, that absorb and hold up to eight times it's own weight in water. The natural pH of 5.7 to 6.5, plus an unusually high Cation Exchange Capacity - and 27% of Easily Available Water assures that coir will hold and release nutrients in solution over extended periods without rewatering.
CoCo Coir Peat is a proven natural alternative to mined peat moss, therefore using it helps slow down peat extraction from environmentally sensitive swamps world wide. Used as a growing medium/potting medium CoCo Coir Peat outperforms most of the popular brands of Peat and Sphagnum Peats.
Healthy root growth is easy with CoCo Coir Peat 100% natural organic coir. Derived from the husk of the coconut, it is an excellent growing medium for both commercial and home gardening applications. The Hydroponic and Horticulture Industries have observed that plants grown with the aid of coir develop larger roots, stems and blooms. This is because unlike ordinary soil, which is usually compacted, CoCo Coir Peat provides more breathing space and aeration for plant roots, resulting in better growth
CoCo Coir Peat can retain moisture up to nine times its own volume while maintaining excellent air filled porosity, providing vital oxygen to the roots and soil. It's fibrous and sponge-like structure is ideal for any soil condition, whether breaking up the heaviest of clay soils or retaining moisture in sandy soils. It is by far the most efficient and economical way to rehabilitate degraded soils without the risk of contamination. CoCo Coir Peat has a naturally high lignin content which encourages favorable micro-organisms around the root zone. Having a slow degradation rate, it conditions the soil and promotes the development of an optimum pH level. CoCo Coir peat has been universally accepted as an excellent plant growth substrate as well as a soil additive
CoCo Coir Peat is the future of growing mediums and will last three times as long as Peat Moss and Sphagnum Moss. CoCo Coir Peat is hydrophilic and will re-wet easily without the use of chemical wetting agents and is capable of holding and releasing nutrients
I use coco coir in 75+% of all I grow, and as I said I just received 2 trays of bananas last week and all 144 of them are in coir right now. I use coir for my plumeria, and Bougainvillea, and Brugmansia.
Michael
Kylie2x
03-03-2009, 05:53 PM
Richard your conditions sound on the money to me..
Micheal there is no way you would ever find cocoa coir here..unless it was a basket liner..LOL . I wish I could tho! GREAT Info!!.. Stuck a package in the mail for you today!
I use alot of perlite..for a starter or Winter mix.. I believe the key is to not over water .
Kylie
Richard
03-03-2009, 06:47 PM
Here is a general article on growing plants in pots.
PTP_2009_03_Pot_Culture (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/column/PTP_2009_03_Pot_Culture.htm)
For something more specific to bananas, you'll have to read the BANANA QUARTERLY !!
Ueberwinden
03-03-2009, 09:05 PM
Kylie,
Thanks for the package, I will give it a try and see what we can do. The Brugs I sold you last summer were grown in coco coir. I like to use it when I root my brugs because in warm conditions you can take a hose and really soak the coir daily, and with the air to water ration possible with coir I have very strong roots very quickly. I have never had one rot to date in coir. I'm a firm believer in it. I find it is also helpful because I ship plants all over the U.S. (as you know), last year I had a banana order to Arizona (Yikes Arizona). When I was working with the USDA to prepare this shipment, the fact that I had grown them in coco Coir and not soil allowed to me ship this order quickly. (only a phyto and proper markings were required) So it has it's advantages, and not many disadvantages that I know of.
Michael
hatfam
03-03-2009, 10:01 PM
Can't find coco coir locally. Any idea where I can purchase this from and is one brand better than another.
Patty in Wisc
03-03-2009, 10:09 PM
I use the M.G. potting mix also. I add perlite & some vermiculite to it for extra drainage. My nanas love it.
I think I will get big bags of peat, mix with perlite, vermiculite & composted manure for next potting & for inground planting this summer. It will be cheaper than MG.
Mike, where do you get your coir?
sunfish
03-03-2009, 10:23 PM
Try www.plantsthatproduce.com
Ueberwinden
03-03-2009, 10:46 PM
Patty/Hatfam,
You can purchase it from hydroponic shops. I also sell it, but since I potted up all of my bananas in coir I used my last 5 bricks and I am out. If you are interested I should have more coming. I think the bricks sell for $2.59 or $2.79 each and I can price the blocks if you want (I haven't updated this product recently the price really doesn't change much). I don't like to promote myself on the forum (I don't think that is proper) so if you would like to send me a PM I can either give you my phone number or an email address.
Michael
r3tic
03-03-2009, 11:24 PM
You can go to most pet stores and look for a product called Bed-a-Beast. There are a couple of other brands, it's used as a cage substrate. Same stuff, different name.
sunfish
03-04-2009, 09:50 AM
Coir America 5 Kg Coco Bail
Coir America 5 Kg Coco Bail Expands to 65 Liters
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Price: $ 9.95
Richard
03-04-2009, 10:08 AM
Crop Production Services has Coir bricks by the pallet for quite a bit less.
hatfam
03-04-2009, 03:17 PM
I can buy bricks of Coir by the pallet. I ran out last year but could order more. Last year I was charging $5 a-piece ... it has probably increased a bit. Here is the description: http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/products/medium_coir.html
Is this interesting to anyone?
I looked there first and saw it was out of stock. I could use some.
buzzwinder
03-04-2009, 03:43 PM
I got ten of these Bricks at a local hydrponics shop last summer for $2.50 each.
http://www.shamanshop.net/store/images/images_J/J_714065.jpg
A note for all using miracle grow potting soil. DON'T USE THE ORGANIC . I killed my AE AE trying to baby it with "BETTER" soil. It held way too much water. ( I think it may have been milorganite........yuck). Although I do 99+% organic culture , I've had great success using the "reg" miracle grow highly ammended with(perlite, bark chips , sand). Cant give ratio just do it by eye till you know it'll be well drained.............Bob
alpha010
03-04-2009, 07:04 PM
A note for all using miracle grow potting soil. DON'T USE THE ORGANIC . I killed my AE AE trying to baby it with "BETTER" soil. It held way too much water. ( I think it may have been milorganite........yuck). Although I do 99+% organic culture , I've had great success using the "reg" miracle grow highly ammended with(perlite, bark chips , sand). Cant give ratio just do it by eye till you know it'll be well drained.............Bob
I use the MG organic and mix it with standard MG potting and mix in some perlite and I have never (yet) had a problem with it no matter what plant I used it on. Matter of fact my Dwarf Cav is sitting in MG organic and MG potting. Never tried the Milogranite, even tho i was eyeballing it at Wally-World yesterday, I'm not gonna change whats working for me so far. Thanks for the heads up tho.
bob
buzzwinder
03-04-2009, 07:30 PM
Milorganite is not a potting soil, it is a high Nitrogen fertilzer generally used as on golf courses, and lawns, it is made from processed waste from Millwaukee Wisc. Milorganite About (http://www.milorganite.com/about/)
Richard
03-04-2009, 09:05 PM
I got ten of these Bricks at a local hydrponics shop last summer for $2.50 each.
http://www.shamanshop.net/store/images/images_J/J_714065.jpg
Yes, those are the 24 ounce, 8" X 4" X 2.25" bricks. The bricks I'm referring to are 12" x 12" x 5" and weigh 11 lbs. The wholesale price for a pallet of 180 these in San Diego CA is $660.
I looked there first (plantsthatproduce.com) and saw it was out of stock. I could use some.
True, I am currently out of stock and reluctant to purchase another pallet in the present economic environment.
hatfam
03-04-2009, 09:16 PM
Yes, those are the 24 ounce, 8" X 4" X 2.25" bricks. The bricks I'm referring to are 12" x 12" x 5" and weigh 11 lbs. The wholesale price for a pallet of 180 these in San Diego CA is $660.
True, I am currently out of stock and reluctant to purchase another pallet in the present economic environment.
I could only use 4 or 5, just let me know. If you do not want to order any in I am sure I can find some .
Thanks
just j
03-04-2009, 11:44 PM
i think bananas r like weeds they will grow in anything except pure sand and clay i have some planted in a swamp on the edge of my yard with the gray water running on them from the washing machine they grow faster than the ones in expensive potting soil that i baby i dont fert. them at all in the summer (maybe they like tide laundry soap lol)from what i can see my yard is sandy with a layer of black dirt on top for the grass to grow nice and they do fine in that too but everyone has there own opinion
Simply Bananas
03-05-2009, 05:33 AM
I have successfully transplanted hundreds of Agristarts tissue cultures over the years. Its not very hard. just don't overwater.
Kylie2x
03-05-2009, 10:03 AM
Midwest Aquatics And Exotics: Rare, Tropical and Unique Plants (http://www.midwestaquaticsandexotics.com/)
Hey Michael aka. Ueberwinden
I'll promote it for you.. I have shopped there and can vouch for the quality and customer care..
Kylie:waving:
1aday
03-06-2009, 12:30 PM
I use Fafard 52
Fafard 52 Mix * : : * Fafard (http://www.fafard.com/?p=150)
sultry_jasmine_nights
03-06-2009, 12:44 PM
Hi thanks for your post on TC success! It sounds reasonable to me :)
I have found coco bricks at Petco and some petmarts by the reptile substrates (litter for their cages). I discovered this after my daughter got her cornsnake lol.
Ueberwinden
03-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Friends,
I'm not so sure I would use coco coir that is packaged as animal bedding, I'm not familiar with the products, but sometimes these materials are treated with "stuff" (things to cover up the animal waste odors) that I would not want in contact with my plants. I'm not saying this is how the product your talking about is, I'm cautioning you to look closely at the packaging to make sure it's only coco coir you are purchasing. It's not worth it to me to poison a healthy plant over a dollar or two.
Michael
Kylie,
you are making me blush :2766:
I like to treat people the way I expect to be treated. I want to be able to trust those that I buy from. Your too good to me, thank you my dear friend.
sunfish
03-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Petco and Petsmart both have coco coir, got some yesterday.Today I bought some at a hydro shop at less than a third the cost ofthe pet store. You can buy online but the shipping is three time the price of the coco coir.
sultry_jasmine_nights
03-08-2009, 10:54 AM
I found one of them for petsmart online. This is for the husks by Exo Terro. The one by our house sells the compressed coir as well , same brand. It is supposed to be 100 % natural. I haven't had any problems yet. It is cheaper for me if I don't have to have it shipped.
Exo Terra Coco Husks Tropical Substrate - Substrate - Reptile - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3092177&keepsr=0#prodTab1)
I don't use all that much of it now but I have a friend who grows other tropical fruit in pots with the coconut with success. With all the rain we get here in the summer I am thinking of switching to coconut coir or husks for them. Then I will prob. need to buy in bulk from somewhere online.
I will still keep most of the nanners in the ground tho. cuz they seem to love it.
Patty in Wisc
03-08-2009, 01:50 PM
I use MG potting MIX with time release fert & add a bunch of perlite for drainage. My nanas love it.
Caloosamusa
03-08-2009, 05:46 PM
:2200:I use a potting mix I buy locally by the square yard, that is high in composted organics. I then fertilize with a 0-0-22. I have used several methods but this one works best. I have lost none using this method.The rooting is rapid :2239:
Richard
03-08-2009, 09:26 PM
:2200:I use a potting mix I buy locally by the square yard, that is high in composted organics. I then fertilize with a 0-0-22. I have used several methods but this one works best. I have lost none using this method.The rooting is rapid :2239:
0-0-22 ... Sul-Po-Mag aka K-Mag? Great stuff, also contains about 20% sulfur.
Extreme Bananas
03-11-2009, 09:04 PM
In the last 2 months, I planted 600+ tc starts in Pro Mix BX in 4 and 4/2" pots. I know this is a no-no in terms of peat moss depletion, but if the Mayans are right about the world ending in 2012, when the planets are all in alignment, it won't matter.
I have only lost one plant and that is because I separated a double plant into two parts. One didn't like it. The major disadvantage of using a peat moss-based soilless mixture is the fungus gnat problem that develops, especially when the plants are grown under lights indoors. To combat that problem, I mix Mosquito Bits, which are granular bits of bacillus thuringiensis israelensis, in the potting soil. This is the same larvacide that is in Gnatrol. I had to get the bits because Garden's Alive doesn't carry the fungus gnat control anymore, and I didn't have time to scout out the Gnatrol. I also have a bunch of yellow sticky traps scattered around. So far, I have only seen a few flitting about. There are many methods of dealing with fungus gnats...cinammon in the soil, sand on top of the soil, systemics, Gnatrol, using Coco Coir instead of peat moss mixes, and others I have not heard about. Contrary to the opinion of some, fungus gnats do not harm plants by eating the roots. The live on the humus material in the soil mix.
The TC's from Agri-Starts vary quite a bit in size. Some have been there awhile and are almost root bound. It takes some time to untangle the roots so the plants gets off to a good start. And some plants are very small. The soil falls off the plants when you remove them and the root system should be a little more developed. They were sent off to the world when too young. These are the ones that may create problems in survival, so care must be taken when replanting them. But even so, I haven't lost any except for the one mentioned. I definitely do not overwater until they start taking off after several weeks.
I used MirG potting soil once and never again. I forgot the type it was but it was much too heavy and I didn't have any perlite on hand to unheavy (new word) it. It reminded me of Hyponex soil, which was made from Michigan Peat, or actually Michigan sewer sludge. This black, sewer-looking stuff was absolutely worthless for plants. If it ever dried out on you, it was almost impossible to rehydrate. It turned into concrete. If it is still on the market, don't use it. It will be sudden death to young banana plants.
:lurk: I LOVE POPCORN...grew 60 pounds of it last year.
Ed
Caloosamusa
03-12-2009, 09:18 PM
The 0-0-22 is an acid forming fertilizer, and bananas do well in a slightly acidic soil. The sulfur is a good acid former also.
Sewer sludges concentrate metals, some of which are micro-nutrients, some are not, and bioaccumulate in phytomaterials which may then become toxic, due to metal content!!
Don't use sewage sludge on any food crop!!!
That is why it is important to know your soil pH, and what you are using for fertilizer. :2239:
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