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harveyc
01-30-2009, 09:12 PM
I bought this beautiful little pup from Steven (MiamiMax on eBay, Varig8 here at the org) and it arrived yesterday.

Here is the pup when it arrived:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15469&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15469&ppuser=775)



I potted it up temporarily last night and re-potted it today in a mix of about 60% perlite, 25% Supersoil potting soil, and 15% worm castings. I put in some wire supports and bagged it to create mini-greenhouse to help prevent the leaves drying out until roots become established. It now looks like this:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15495&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15495&ppuser=775)

I've got it in my warm house in a bay window that gets morning sunlight and moderate light most of the day.

Any thoughts on helping improve it's chance for survival? I thought of putting it on a heated propagation mat, but don't know how helpful that will be since my home already stays 70F or above.

Thanks,

Harvey

CiXeL
01-30-2009, 09:36 PM
I guess let it get established a bit and start feeding it potassium like jordan steele does with the ae ae?
very nice looking plant. does he sell ae ae and for how much?
or maybe i should just wait till chris rollins has to break down the ae ae in the asian greenhouse. its a ridiculous monster of a plant but im impatient!

harveyc
01-30-2009, 09:43 PM
Steven does have Ae Ae but he usually sells most of his stuff on eBay so the sky is the limit there. He did tell me that he's very pleased at what a strong grower this is and that the Ae Ae is much more touchy and he plans to make less of an effort with the Ae Ae.

If you could get one from Rollins, that would be your best deal for sure!

I did put a small amount of slow release fertilizer in this pot, but will wait until it shows signs of growth before fertilizing it.

Richard
01-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Harvey, do you have something to roughly gauge the humidity in that tent? Last year I was surprised to see a small rectangular pocket watch in Long's drug store that also gives temperature and humidity readings. It was a big $4.

Anyway, keeping the humidity between 55% and 75% is a good idea. Of course it will be in the low 90's right after watering.

On a more basic scale, if you take good care of the corm it will take care of the leaves. If your house temperature is around 70 F and doesn't drop below 55 F then it is in tropical paradise. The lighting you have is moderate, so you need to be very moderate with water and any nutrients.

Make sure the water is appropriate for such an awesome plant.

For nutrients, I believe you have truckloads of triple-15 at your farm. Use a teaspoon per month until May. More ideally, use a 1/4 teaspoon of water-soluble 20-5-30 per gallon on a continuous feeding schedule, or perhaps you have some orchard food with similar ratios?

harveyc
01-30-2009, 10:18 PM
Thanks, Richard. I hadn't thought of measuring the humidity but I do have an extra weather unit and can put the outdoor sensor in the pot very easily. I was figuring I would just watch for droplets of water on the bag to gauge excess humidity, but the sensor will be an easy method.

I plan on being very careful on the watering for sure.

This new banana is sitting right next to a Logee Dwarf Ladyfinger I bought a couple of 6-8 weeks ago. It has 6-7 new leaves since I got it and doing very well, though it does show signs of low humidity. That's what gave me the idea of making the tent.

The plant does have it made in my house as we keep it warm since I get natural gas for free (for my house only). People have suggested on adding a sunroom onto the house but I haven't quite figured out where I could put one. Then I'd have to talk my wife into it. :)

My orchard soil is high in P and I put K on in the fall, so I mostly fertilize with N during the growing season. I have plenty of bags of various fertilizers, though. My other bananas have done well on the combination of fertilizers I've used, but I have not been very precise with these things I'll readily admit.

Thanks again,

Harvey

Bananaman88
01-31-2009, 06:29 PM
Nice looking pup! Any idea which species it might be?

harveyc
01-31-2009, 09:22 PM
No I don't, Brent. Steven's original blew over in a hurricane but he has a friend with one in bloom now so we'll soon know if it's edible or not.

Steven told me it's a strong grower and he grows it in full sun. Since he's in zone 10 or so, he's got no idea as too cold hardiness. I picked this up as I've become addicted to pretty plants. ;)

Gabe15
02-01-2009, 12:34 AM
No I don't, Brent. Steven's original blew over in a hurricane but he has a friend with one in bloom now so we'll soon know if it's edible or not.

If you could get a hold of a photo of the inflorescence it would likely be easy to tell if its a wild species or an edible variety.

harveyc
02-01-2009, 02:28 AM
Okay, Gabe, I'll e-mail Steven and ask if he can get a photo to me. Thanks.

In the last 24 hours my little tent greenhouse has ranged from 69F to 89F and humidity has ranged from 50% to 80%. Right now it is 59.8F and 65% and looks happy. ;)

harveyc
02-07-2009, 12:38 PM
Okay, I've had this tiny pup for a little over a week and I'm concerned as the leaves are getting brown spots and the small stem as well. I've kept the bag on it and humidity has usually been about 60-65%. I haven't watered it but the soil is still damp. Maybe I should have used more than 60% perlite? I'm thinking the soil might be too wet and it's rotting. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15594&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15594&ppuser=775)

Patty in Wisc
02-07-2009, 01:26 PM
Hi Harvey, if the roots are rotting, how about some hydrogen peroxide?
I bought a TC RajaPuri & Siam Ruby 2 1/2 months ago in 2 inch pots. I potted them in 5 inch pots & put them in my west bay window. S. R. lost leaves w/ color but grew 4 healthy green leaves (not enough sun for color) as did R.P. I know the top of sill is cold & room is 66-68* w/ 30% humidity but they are doing fine. I water very little - enough to keep from drying. I will put them in a lrg zip lock with a towel under for protection from the cold sill & they should take off (after reading what you wrote). It will give them a good start for spring.
Just letting you know mine are doing fine even though I was MEAN to them compared to you LOL.

xavierdlc61887
02-07-2009, 01:39 PM
yeah sometimes being to cautious and careful is not good...i know from experience...like i babies all my first plants and would freak at the very sign of brown spots or anyhthing for that matter.....but....now i slice pups pot em up water them and let them do there thing :P they seem to respond well!!!

Patty in Wisc
02-07-2009, 01:43 PM
Ya know Harvey, the first pic shows the leaves are a little brown - from what I can see. My 1st 3 leaves turned brown & died off, but new ones came in fine.

Chironex
02-07-2009, 07:27 PM
My guess is that it is due to shipping shock. As Patty said, future leaves will be the telltale of a happy plant. Stay the course and keep doing what you were. Judge it by the new growth. I would just keep an eye on it for rot on the new leaves. Gradually let more air to them each day now. One week of hardening should be enough to recover.

harveyc
02-08-2009, 02:13 AM
Thanks, all. I came up with an idea tonight and sleep on it. If I implement it tomorrow, I'll post it here. I may just very well establish a new protocol for handling small pups! :D

Not of caution: I shared my idea with Pete tonight and he thinks it's a good idea, so that has me a bit scared. LOL

Chironex
02-08-2009, 02:27 PM
Thanks, all. I came up with an idea tonight and sleep on it. If I implement it tomorrow, I'll post it here. I may just very well establish a new protocol for handling small pups! :D

Not of caution: I shared my idea with Pete tonight and he thinks it's a good idea, so that has me a bit scared. LOL

Anxious to hear about your idea Harvey. Do let me know, please.

harveyc
02-08-2009, 07:51 PM
Okay, here's the strategy I've developed. I figure if the roots are having trouble with rot, it would be good to get them more air. I could remove the plant from the soil and increase the percentage of perlite but I'd prefer not to disturb the plant any more than absolutely necessary. At the same time, I was wondering if CO2 levels might get too high in the "tent". Thinking back to a university hydroponics experiment back a little over 30 years ago (yikes, I'm old!), I decided to purchase an aquarium air pump and use it to aerate the soil. I purchased a cheap (little over $5 at WalMart) pump rated at 1200cc/minute pump. I used air stones to help distribute the air and prevent plugging of the tubbing and placed three stones up through the bottom drain holes of the pot and taped them in to help prevent air flowing right back out of the bottom. I then placed a poly bag over the bottom and taped it at the top to further prevent air from flowing out the bottom. My hopes is that this will aerate the soil, reduce risk of rot, stimulate root growth, and increase oxygen in the air of the bag. As long as the soil is moist, this should also increase humidity. Total cost of this experiment was about $11.

The humidity level in the tent as 65% before removing the banana from the pot but dropped to 42% as soon as I removed it. About 10 minutes after pumping air with the tent back on, it's up to 55%.

Let's see if this helps! Any thoughts on this would be most welcome. I thought my cat wouldn't go for the idea as the pump is about a foot from where she sleeps but she didn't budge. LOL

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15607&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15607&ppuser=775)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15606&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15606&ppuser=775)

buzzwinder
02-08-2009, 08:25 PM
Thanks Harvey, sounds logical. Should prove interesting to follow the progress. Keep us posted please. :bananas_b

momoese
02-08-2009, 08:49 PM
Well, this will be interesting to follow!

If it were my plant I'd remove it and check for rot, clean if needed, let it dry some, then apply some fungicide/rooting hormone before replanting in some sterile media. If the rot has already started it won't matter how much air you pass over the roots.

harveyc
02-08-2009, 09:07 PM
Thanks, Mitchel. From some things I've related to "brewing" actively aerated compost tea, harmful bacteria is most often grown in anerobic conditions so I believe that aeration would decrease or stop the spread of rot even if it has started. Since the pup had some fairly small roots to begin with, I'm afraid I'd break those off easily by removing it from the soil. I suppose I could wash the soil away.

I have not heard of the use of rooting hormone on banana pups. Have you used it?

Thanks for the ideas!

Patty in Wisc
02-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Good luck Harvey.
Poor thing looks like it's on an I V - or -Oxygen tubes taped to it's nostrils LOL I hope this works . We treat them like our babies don't we?
I would still take it out & check the roots very carefully - if no improvement. I wouldn't add more perlite.

chong
02-09-2009, 03:21 AM
My guess is that it is due to shipping shock. As Patty said, future leaves will be the telltale of a happy plant. Stay the course and keep doing what you were. Judge it by the new growth. I would just keep an eye on it for rot on the new leaves. Gradually let more air to them each day now. One week of hardening should be enough to recover.

Well, this will be interesting to follow!

If it were my plant I'd remove it and check for rot, clean if needed, let it dry some, then apply some fungicide/rooting hormone before replanting in some sterile media. If the rot has already started it won't matter how much air you pass over the roots.

Thanks, Mitchel. From some things I've related to "brewing" actively aerated compost tea, harmful bacteria is most often grown in anerobic conditions so I believe that aeration would decrease or stop the spread of rot even if it has started. Since the pup had some fairly small roots to begin with, I'm afraid I'd break those off easily by removing it from the soil. I suppose I could wash the soil away.

I have not heard of the use of rooting hormone on banana pups. Have you used it?

Thanks for the ideas!

Harvey,

I've ordered a couple of variegated bananas from Thailand and both of them croaked. First one, I planted in a peat based soil less medium, and shined a 40 watt lightbulb on the surface of the medium at around 1-foot away. The second one, I planted in coco peat, and hardly watered it because it stayed moist all the time, with no artificial lighting.

On all of my bananas, I dust the corms with Captan fungicide before I pot them up. I would agree with Mitchel, if it were my plant, I would re-pot the plant. I would gently shake off as much of the soil as I can, then dust it with Captan. After airing it out for an hour, I would pot it in a well draining medium, like a cactus potting mix. And here is what I think is the most important part that I did not do for the other bananas, I would put them on a heat mat, set at 85°F. The reason I think this is important is that, in realizing that the plant comes from a hot tropical area, where the ground is probably at least 80°F most of the time, when the plant is in the pot on the floor, the temperature of the potting medium or soil is probably even or 2-3°F cooler than the ambient temperature. At this temperature, when the soil is moist, the plant is sensing that the soil is wet because that would the wet temperature in its original "home". Hence, it will react like the ground is wet all the time. By raising the temperature of the medium, the plant senses the warmth, and the plant responds "like it was back home", and the need to absorb the moisture before it dries out by sending out roots.

As for a rooting hormone, you might try Rootone, though it might be a little expensive, unless you dust the corm with a small amount (1-tsp), before you dust it with Captan. Or, try a little Gibberellic acid powder mixed with some Captan. Only problem is, I don't how much to use any more since I haven't used GA3 in a while.

This is not to say that your aerating of the pot will not help. It will perhaps reduce the risk of fungus growth. And you need to make sure that the soil doesn't dry out. Without bottom heat, the plant may still respond like the soil is wet. Aerating the soil will cool it further.

If you decide to "stay the course", at least spray the plant with a systemic fungicide, e.g., Ferti-lome Systemic Fungicide, etc. Even after dusting the corms from Thailand with Captan, when the plants exhibited signs or rotting, I sprayed them with fungicide, but even this was to no avail.

I have two 4-foot Ae-Ae's (allegedly from Saipan! LOL) that are inside the house in 5-gallon pots. Their outer leaves have dried out, but the p-stems are still firm. One of them has a leaf actually slowly growing. When the temperature in the greenhouse is at least a constant 65°F, I bring them there and I will be putting them on the heat mat until I see obvious signs of active growth.

Bob
02-09-2009, 09:26 AM
My first and only (so far) Ae Ae was also allegedly from Saipan. It was the only plant I've killed in years. Looked great upon shipment albeit very little root system at all. It steadily declined till there was a hole in the pot!

mm4birds
02-09-2009, 10:14 AM
Too much water killed most of these plants and I bet none dies from neglect but rather from too much attention. I found in my small experience that a shipped plant can take a long time to show signs of new growth. On average I would say that this time of year it could take 3-4 months before a new leaf flag starts to appear and during that time one has a tendency to want to water to stimulate growth especially since old leaves may shrivel and die in the plants attempt to conserve water until new roots appear. Doing this will usually rot any new fragile roots trying to come out and likely cause one to water more frequently. I mark the dormant flag leaf with a marker to see when growth is starting and then water sparingly. This does not mean I have not lost plants to rot but on the other hand my compost heap is a little larger.

johndeltav
02-09-2009, 10:20 AM
Hi Harvey,It looks to me that it was in poor shape when it was sent to you. Shipping may have hurt this small plant it even more. John



I bought this beautiful little pup from Steven (MiamiMax on eBay, Varig8 here at the org) and it arrived yesterday.

Here is the pup when it arrived:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15469&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15469&ppuser=775)



I potted it up temporarily last night and re-potted it today in a mix of about 60% perlite, 25% Supersoil potting soil, and 15% worm castings. I put in some wire supports and bagged it to create mini-greenhouse to help prevent the leaves drying out until roots become established. It now looks like this:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15495&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15495&ppuser=775)

I've got it in my warm house in a bay window that gets morning sunlight and moderate light most of the day.

Any thoughts on helping improve it's chance for survival? I thought of putting it on a heated propagation mat, but don't know how helpful that will be since my home already stays 70F or above.

Thanks,

Harvey

momoese
02-09-2009, 11:32 AM
Looking at those pics again it doesn't look like it had developed much of a corm yet.

I have not used any rooting hormone or fungicide on my bananas, but I have on other plants with good results and wouldn't hesitate to try it on something rare like your plant.

Sounds like Chong has had good results and I'll keep in mind his theory about soil temps and root growth. Makes good sense to me.

Richard
02-09-2009, 12:05 PM
Harvey,

Agri-Fos from Monterey Lawn and Garden Products is a systemic fungicide approved for fruits in California. I have used it with success on my citrus trees to control sooty mold. You can find it at most independent nurseries and Ag supply stores.

harveyc
02-09-2009, 12:19 PM
I have some Ridomil Gold on hand, but don't believe it's got label information for bananas. It's strong stuff and I would hate to guess on the appropriate dose for a small banana.

Thanks for all of the tips/advice.

Chong, it is unclear to me why you believe the soil is colder than the ambient temperature (even before aeration), though I can understand why the aeration can provide some cooling effect. I do have a propagation mat and could stick a thermometer into the "patient" and keep it at 85F but then I'll have to move it into my shop for that and put up my grow light. I don't think my wife would go for putting the propagation mat in the bay window...it's getting pretty weird already! ;)

Harvey

chong
02-09-2009, 01:48 PM
..........................................................
Chong, it is unclear to me why you believe the soil is colder than the ambient temperature (even before aeration), though I can understand why the aeration can provide some cooling effect.
The soil will be colder because the water, that you pour into it, is usually cooler than ambient. And as the water evaporates from the soil, it cools the soil further. Plus, ambient in your area is definitely colder than the plant's original environment.

I do have a propagation mat and could stick a thermometer into the "patient" and keep it at 85F but then I'll have to move it into my shop for that and put up my grow light. I don't think my wife would go for putting the propagation mat in the bay window...it's getting pretty weird already! ;)

Harvey
You can use a t'stat controlled heat tape around the pot, with the thermostat in the soil. Then place the pot of the plant in a slightly larger pot, and seal the top opening with some fiberglass insulation. Or, instead of a heat tape, you can use a 25 or 40 watt appliance light bulb under the pot, inside a larger pot that can accommodate both, and plug it into a heat mat thermostat that's available from most hardware or garden stores. Just make sure that you keep the bulb from getting wet.

Or, you can get one of these:
ThermoPlanter: Heated Planter Extends Growing Season for Tropical Water Plants (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=15875&cmpid=11cseyh&ref=3473&subref=AA&srccode=cii_1038957&cpncode=18-27328087-2)

Logee's Greenhouse-Thermo Planter TM (http://www.logees.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DS1200)

harveyc
02-09-2009, 01:57 PM
Chong, I haven't watered this plant since I planted it and I don't have any plans on doing so in the near future. For young plants, I typically water with warm water.

I already have a propagation mat and it should meet the heating needs.

Thanks again,

Harvey

harveyc
02-09-2009, 02:02 PM
One other point I'd like to make is that this plant spent less than 48 hours in transit during shipping so I would expect shock to be much less than something imported overseas, etc.

harveyc
02-10-2009, 08:41 PM
After the 'org crashed yesterday I moved my plant into my shop and on a propagation mat, I've also stuck a thermometer into the patient's bottom....I mean pot of soil.... ;) and after six hours or so it's been holding stead at about 85F. I removed the bag and have left it off with humidity ranging from 28%-35%. I am still aerating the pot. I removed one leaf whose petiole had dried up. It is also under a fluorescent grow light (two 48" bulbs). It looks like it's an incubator at the hospital! :P

I have not yet convinced myself to dig up the plant or treat it with a fungicide, though I did buy the AGRI-FOS systemic fungicide Richard had recommended.

Patty in Wisc
02-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Harvey, you are doing all the right things. It was sent to you in bad shape. I (personally) would not ship a plant that small & fragile. Just don't kill it with kindness... I don't want to see you on the "What did you kill today" thread! :)

harveyc
02-11-2009, 06:32 PM
I decided to go ahead and inspect my banana and re-pot it this today. I mixed up 80% perlite and 20% potting soil and prepared some Agri-Fos fungicide solution to dip the banana into and then to drench the potting soil mix. I also sertilized a new 1 gallon pot.

However, after removing the banana from the pot, I was very pleased with the root growth and decided to re-pot it without treating it and right back into the same soil mix. The mix seemed to have just the right amount of moisture and was nice and warm and the root growth was impressive. There were no signs of mold so I decided not to risk any damage to the favorable environment with the fungicide. I believe the aeration is like a very beneficial factor as the oxygen is aiding root growth. (For some information on air injected into underground drip irrigation systems, you may find http://cefresno.ucdavis.edu/files/51557.pdf of interest.)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15620&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15620&ppuser=775)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15621&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15621&ppuser=775)

Hey, check out those nice white healthy roots!!! :D

:woohoonaner:

Michael_Andrew
02-11-2009, 06:50 PM
Get well "Wild Thing"!

momoese
02-11-2009, 07:50 PM
That's looking good! Hopefully it will continue to root like that.

varig8
02-11-2009, 08:06 PM
Hello All;
Well, you certainly cannot complain about all the help and concern one receives at this site! Kudos to all of you. After reading through all these posts, I have found I am in agreement with the most simple and common sensed comments posted by MM4Birds. I have been growing rare tropicals for over 30 years, and every banana corm, or small banana plant I lost came from ONE reason--TOO MUCH WATER during the re-establishment of new roots. All else seems irrelevant in comparison. You just wouldnt think that a little extra water would hurt so much!! I lived in the Caribbean for about 15 years and watched the banana growers just hack off pups, cut the leaves and stalks to the top of the corms, scrape the old roots off, and throw them in a truck like potatos! Then they just dug a hole, planted them with no water, and guess what? Perfectly growing rows of bananas. I do admit that we should all take more care and concern when growing them inside and potted though! And being RARE and expensive variegates, well, goes without saying. Harvey has been in contact with me from day one, and has taken into consideration the majority of my suggestions and the new photos of all those white new roots is fantastic! (I would still cut off those older leaves!) Re-establishing these slower growing variegates during the winter months can be problematic due to the obvious environmental conditions. WATER LIGHT WARMTH. Most important in that order in my book as far as banana corms go! Here in "Sunny" Florida it has been down in the low 40's and 50's for the past month or so. All my plants are outside, even one similar sized aurea variegated "Wild Asian Banana" (Hate these local names!) which I received from Thailand about 6 weeks ago. I cut off all the leaves right away except the newest which I cut horizontally in half. All the roots were scraped off on the similar sized corm as Harveys. I dug a hole,(in full sun), watered it ONCE when I planted, and now it looks THE SAME. No dying back, an erect, functioning "half" leaf, and slowly rooting out. No rain here to speak of for months in Miami either! Fussing too much with the 'babies' oftentimes spell death for them! I know from experience early on in this hobby after loosing hundreds and hundreds of $ rooting out AeAe pups and other banana corms over the years. I lost my first 6 AeAe in the Caribbean from this! ($700+!). I thought I was going to die! It is MUCH better to re-establish them DRYER than WET. Might be slower, but they LIVE! If you pot them up in 100% perlite it proves better. You really need a very well drained mix to start them off! After they've rooted out in Perlite they can be moved into a soil based mix. It may interest you to know that banana corms can also be dried and stored for long periods of time before planting! Keep me posted Harvey!
Steven

harveyc
02-11-2009, 11:20 PM
Thanks, Steven, I'm glad I persuaded you to come out and post. You've got some of the most beautiful plants in your gallery here and more people should see what you've got.

I'll probably cut off the oldest leaf, but the youngest leaf doesn't look too bad. One thing I've found in some cases is that if all the leaves die it would be best just to cut off the pseudostem to the ground as it ends up getting dry and new leaves have a hard time emergying and sometimes end up coming out of the soil instead after being held back.

One point about watering. I don't know that any plant can have too much water other than the lack of oxygen. In other words, the problem is more the lack of oxygen than the abundance of water. Otherwise, hydroponics just would not work. I still am going to be careful to avoid watering heavily (this plant has not received any additional water since it was first planted), but the aeration does give it a lot of extra "insurance".

Thanks again,

Harvey

Tog Tan
02-12-2009, 08:49 AM
Fyi Harvey, with ref to the post by Steven-Varig8, if the Wild Asian Musa is the aurea form from Thailand, then it is the Musa acuminata subsp siamea. Someone found it in the wild some years ago and only recently it is available for sale. There are also people offering the seeds from this particular plant and they seem to have a high percentage of Variegated sprouts. I have 2 of these plants with me. They are a bit sensitive as there is not much green on the leaves. My Thai friend told me to go easy on the water with it and I didn't believe him as I thought as long as it is a M acuminata, it's gotta to be drinker. But then, I was wrong!

Bob
02-12-2009, 09:06 AM
Harvey, Steve and Tog, thanks for your posts. My one and only Ae Ae looked much like Harveys(particularly the roots or lack of) and trying to baby it I potted it up with a soil mix that didn't include as much amendments such as bark chips ,sand perlite etc that I give my other plants. It basically withered till just a hole was left in the pot. Next time I'll learn from my own and your mistakes.
Steven thanks for sharing your ae ae info. It stinks to lose any plant but 6 ae ae's..... yikes. At least I'll be much better prepared for the next one.

harveyc
02-12-2009, 10:36 AM
Thanks, Tog. Okay, I can eat the fruits and start an entire plantation spitting those seeds out! :P

Pete just reminded me of that joker who sells "Ae Ae seeds" on eBay; maybe he's selling these?

Steven has told me that this is not a very sensitive plant, though. He grows it in full sun and it is a strong grower for him (much stronger than Ae Ae) and that I shouldn't be surprised if it gets to 8-10 feet tall this summer. I'm hoping so! :D

Harvey

Tog Tan
02-12-2009, 11:17 AM
Thanks, Tog. Okay, I can eat the fruits and start an entire plantation spitting those seeds out! :P

Pete just reminded me of that joker who sells "Ae Ae seeds" on eBay; maybe he's selling these?

Steven has told me that this is not a very sensitive plant, though. He grows it in full sun and it is a strong grower for him (much stronger than Ae Ae) and that I shouldn't be surprised if it gets to 8-10 feet tall this summer. I'm hoping so! :D

Harvey

Come to think of it, you are gonna be rich selling the seedlings from the seeds germinated. 1 bunch of M-a has at least 7 hands of fruits with approx 8 fingers each. Each fruit has approx 106 seeds (yes, I idiotically counted a whole hand!) So that makes at least 6,048 seeds! Say you have 50% germinations and you sell each plant for $ 20, you will get $ 60,480!!! Happy?:ha:

Oh yeah Harvey, M-a-s-siamea gets to be 9ft tall. I think they do better in the cooler clime over at your end. I find it a bit sensitive to the heat of our full sun here though. Best of luck man!:ha:

Greenie
02-12-2009, 12:01 PM
:bananas_b

Chironex
02-13-2009, 12:10 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15606&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15606&ppuser=775)

Looks like a banana on life support! :ha:

varig8
02-13-2009, 02:53 AM
Tog, and friends..........I must tell you that I had one of these albo "Wild Asian bananas", AKA Indonesian Ivory, AKA Tanna, AKA Ta Nee, AKA Bluggoe, AKA Silver Bluggoe, AKA Ad nauseum.........in the ground and it was at least 12' tall and still growing-had not yet flowered before it toppled from a storm..........Maybe the albo variety which Harvey now has, isnt Siamea, which MIGHT be the Thai Aurea I just got? Something to think about.................

harveyc
02-13-2009, 03:00 AM
You make my head spin, Steve. In a good way! :D

Tog Tan
02-13-2009, 06:09 AM
Tog, and friends..........I must tell you that I had one of these albo "Wild Asian bananas", AKA Indonesian Ivory, AKA Tanna, AKA Ta Nee, AKA Bluggoe, AKA Silver Bluggoe, AKA Ad nauseum.........in the ground and it was at least 12' tall and still growing-had not yet flowered before it toppled from a storm..........Maybe the albo variety which Harvey now has, isnt Siamea, which MIGHT be the Thai Aurea I just got? Something to think about.................

I think I made the mistake here....hmmm...I thought Harvey got the Aurea from you. No? Ok, Steven, this is how the story goes from my friend in Bkk;

Basically there are 4 forms of Variegated 'naners offered in Bkk;

1. The Yellow Variegated aka Aurea is the Musa acuminata subsp siamea which grows to about 8ft tall. Lots of yellow on the leaf with little bit of green. When young, looks sickly.

2. The Var Indon Ivory (this, Harvey's?) is actually a Variegated Musa balbisiana which came from Indonesia. This grows big to 14ft. Color is green and white like the Ae Ae but more green. A damn robust grower.

3. Var Kluay Nam Wah which is an edible cultivar and it costs more than the other 2 in Bkk cos...it's edible!

4. Var Ae Ae, everyone knows what this is rite...? When it first came to Bkk, it was known as Var Florida cos some guy took it back from Florida.

I got the info from my friend who is a Prof in a uni there and he got me 2 of each of the above stuff. Apparently there is still one more Var 'naner which is yet to be released into the market. Yes, I am waiting for it! :ha:

mm4birds
02-13-2009, 03:34 PM
To clarify then,is Florida variegated the same as AeAe except for the overseas flight? I recall someone claiming that Florida has a seeded fruit unlike AeAe which is unseeded. :waving:

chong
02-13-2009, 04:23 PM
To clarify then,is Florida variegated the same as AeAe except for the overseas flight? I recall someone claiming that Florida has a seeded fruit unlike AeAe which is unseeded. :waving:

I wish that I can tell you. But my 2 Floridas from Thailand croaked! It is possible that, as Tog says, that M. Florida is AE-Ae; and that anyone who got sold one under the same name, but which produced seeded fruits, was just sold a fake.

Bananaman88
02-13-2009, 04:26 PM
I think I've read that the one sold as Florida Variegate may be a variegated balbisiana.

Tog Tan
02-13-2009, 05:13 PM
I wish that I can tell you. But my 2 Floridas from Thailand croaked! It is possible that, as Tog says, that M. Florida is AE-Ae; and that anyone who got sold one under the same name, but which produced seeded fruits, was just sold a fake.

These 2 plts are the Var M balbisiana aka Tanee which I got from Bkk 2 months ago. The new leaves have become darker than when it first came in.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15650><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15650&size=1 border=0></a>

Chong, mm4birds, if the Var Florida is from Thailand, it should be the Ae Ae as it was hand carried in from Florida and that's how it got its name. But then knowing the Thais, it also could be the Var M balbisiana which is similar in coloration except it has more green than white. It is only recently that one guy is selling the Ae Ae as the Ae Ae there. It is sold for about 5,000b. Confusing?

Most people in Thailand are unaware that the Tanee or Var Giant Indon is actually the M balbisiana. It is the same for the Siam Ruby, in Bkk, it is known as Indon Daeng or Red Indon. As to how the M balbisiana got to Indonesia, I still can't find the answer as it does not originate from there.

The Indon Var M balbisiana got there only a few years back as there was alot of hand carried trading for the Thai Aglaonema and foliage Anthurium cos the Indons were really crazy about them. The Indons were there in different groups every week buying huge quantities of plants on the wholesale day at Chatuchat market and then taking them back. They all stay at one particular hotel which allow people to have plant materials in their rooms. You should see the Indons practically working in shifts packing their plants in the corridors of the hotel! I met some of them and they asked me to help them get the Anthurium Jungle Bush. When Thailand ran out of Anthuriums, they came to M'sia to get them. Man, and you guys think you are plant crazy! :ha::ha: