View Full Version : Musa violascens
Tog Tan
12-23-2008, 11:19 AM
As for this thread, I had no intention of hunting down the Musa violascens. I got up very early this morning to see an aborigine village head who is located on the foothills of the Western central highlands. My main purpose was to get him to collect a big leaf spotted Dracaena for my professor friend in Thailand who wants it for breeding. Currently this plant is undescribed. Somehow, our conversation turned to wild musa and he showed me a couple of plants in the wild. Joke of the day? When I asked him what the aborigines call this plant, he pointed to me, laughing - Pisang Tok! I almost fell down laughing too!:ha::ha::ha:
They are very scarce in this area according to him and we only found 3 plants with small pups. As they are rare here, I did not collect any. I will keep coming back to photograph their progress as they flower. I couldn't get a pix of the flower on one of the plants as it was too high up. We had to cut the flower and fruits down for photo purposes. The big plants here grow to about 9ft in p-stem height. I suppose they will get smaller when kept dry or in a pot.
Here, these plts seem to like very wet, waterlogged areas. It was not a joy getting to the other plants because of the blood donation campaign run by the local leech association.
I will keep this thread open for those who are interested in this species. I was very annoyed when I searched the net and can't find a even 1 image of this species. I was notified by another aborigine about an area 'infested' with this species. I will find the time to go there and get pix back for you guys.
Between this and the much hyped about Musa gracilis, I prefer the Musa violascens for its foliage and flower size. Currently I am growing a couple of plants from the north given to me my one of my aborigine friends. At this point, some of you may wonder about my association with these people. The aborigines or Orang Asli are a very nice bunch of folks and I have been with them for more than 10 years hunting for all sorts of reptiles. I learnt a lot from them in their jungle craft.
Hope you like the pix. Cheers!:ha:
I managed to get a top pix of the plant as the bottom is obscured by all sorts of plants. I really love the beautiful foliage - a nice mid greed semi gloss top and bottom. It is a young plant about 4ft in p-stem height.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14886><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14886&size=1 border=0></a>
This is a close up of the p-stem. See how clean looking it is.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14888><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14888&size=1 border=0></a>
Detail of the undersurface of the leaf. The mid rib is yellow.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14890><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14890&size=1 border=0></a>
Here's a pix of the flower bud and immature fruits. Flower is almost 10 inches!
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14892><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14892&size=1 border=0></a>
Ah... Here's the main difference between the M gracilis and M violascens. As you can see from the close up, the fruits of the M violascens is double row in the hand. For M gracilis, it's one row only.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14894><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14894&size=1 border=0></a>
Hey(Pisang) Tog, what does "Orang " mean?( I'm guessing people or person) I only ask because of a lifelong interest in cryptozoology and have heard of "Orang Pendek" which is supposedly Indonesian for short person.
Chironex
12-23-2008, 03:07 PM
Great shots, great finds! You live in banana wonderland it seems. So cool.
Thanks for posting the different taxonomic characteristics, that's real good stuff to know.
Tog Tan
12-23-2008, 10:23 PM
Hey(Pisang) Tog, what does "Orang " mean?( I'm guessing people or person) I only ask because of a lifelong interest in cryptozoology and have heard of "Orang Pendek" which is supposedly Indonesian for short person.
Yep, Orang = people/person and Asli = Natural/Original. So Orang Asli means the original people of the land. And you my cheeky friend, you are known as Orang Puteh here aka White Man! :ha:
Yep, Orang = people/person and Asli = Natural/Original. So Orang Asli means the original people of the land. And you my cheeky friend, you are known as Orang Puteh here aka White Man! :ha:
I won't put in print what this sounds like in Spanish but, here's a clue : I only know the bad words and the few things lorax taught me when I went banana shopping! Still it seems to fit!..........cheers.
bigdog
12-24-2008, 10:23 AM
Yep, Orang = people/person and Asli = Natural/Original. So Orang Asli means the original people of the land. And you my cheeky friend, you are known as Orang Puteh here aka White Man! :ha:
Hey Tog, when I went to Thailand earlier this year, our group frequently heard locals saying "Farang, farang," LOL. We had been told that would happen though, and that it wasn't quite derogatory, just a word for "foreigner."
Nice that you found another wild species! Certainly does look a lot like Musa gracilis. I really didn't know that either of those species grew that large! Thanks a bunch (pun intended)!
Frank
Tog Tan
12-24-2008, 10:41 AM
Yo Frank,
Shouldn't you be half drunk now with Christmas a couple of hours away?
Farang means Guava in Thai. It's white inside. Now you know what kinda fruit you are! :ha:
Another term here for foreigners is Mat Salleh. Nothing degrading but refers to people who act foreign.
Yeah these two species of Callimusa are almost the same except for the fruits which Gabe was trying to verify with me on the M gracilis thread. The way they differ in geography is that M violascens is found on the Western side of the peninsular whereas M gracilis is found on the Eastern side. These two areas are separated by the Main Range all the way from the top to the south, thus, there is hardly any chance for them to overlap and hybridize.
The West is wetter and protected by the Indonesian main islands whereas the East is exposed to the South China Sea. Their climate is very different and maybe that's why the M gracilis grow smaller there. The lot I found were at the foothills of the Main range where it is wetter so the plants get big.
I feel there is so much more for me to learn even though there are only 2 species of Musa and 2 species of Callimusa here. I am not stopping here but I will get specimens from all the parts of the country. Of course I will try to find the ultimate specimen for each of the species with the nicest flower.
Since 25th Dec is a holiday, I may go hunting again tomorrow down Central south. Will keep you posted.
Happy holidays! :bananas_b
Tog:0517:
Chironex
12-24-2008, 04:04 PM
I still wanna know the meaning of Pisang Tok and why it made you laugh.
Tog Tan
12-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Yo Scot,
A Blessed and Merry Christmas to you and your family!:goteam::goteam::goteam:
Pisang Tok sounds like Pisang 'Tog' depending how one pronounce it! :ha:
Most locals can't pronounce the 'g'! :ha::ha::ha:
lorax
12-24-2008, 10:24 PM
Farang means Guava in Thai. It's white inside.
I'm going to reveal exactly how big a geek I am now... The Ferengi race of Star Trek fame take their name from the word Farang, which can be extended to mean "foreigners."
Chironex
12-24-2008, 11:44 PM
Thanks Tog, grab at least 2 of whatever you find. I got the TC lab ready to crank.
Send me one corm and I will send back 4 or more of them to you.
Merry Christmas to you and yours my friend.
Tog Tan
12-25-2008, 08:18 AM
Here's a beauty! The Darkest Color found to date.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14906><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14907 border=0></a>
What a Christmas day for me! I got up early and decided to some hunting down South central and this time I found an area crazy with M violascens. I am sure you guys are bored with my finds and making it as though nothing is rare in the 'naner world anymore!
Lucky me this time I found a couple of plants in bloom and got a pix of a superb specimen. The corm was too big to do any digging, so I collected a couple of seedlings from around there. I went to a few other adjoining sites and even managed to find some spotted leaf seedlings.
Growth habit
In this area, the plant's growth habit is very interesting as that many clumps grow very close to each other giving the impression that they are a single clump.
Maximum size observed is about 9+ft in p-stem height. They are mainly found in very wet areas and some grow in permanent water lots. The color variation of this area is that the p-stem is darker in color. Size for size when compared to a typical M acuminata, the M violascens is much bigger and taller.
Seedlings
They are found sporadically near mature clumps. Size wise, they are smaller than M acuminata in terms of size/age. I found very few maroon spotted seedlings here. In some areas, only green ones were found.
Fruits
I saw about 15 plts with fruits. Form wise consistent, they are slightly angular and the size varies from short to long. Color is consistent. The fruits are very hard and some seem to be eaten by animals. In it, the pulp is like styrofoam.
For more pix see my Photo Gallery - Musa violascens
This pix was taken from a sheer cliff. The clumps are down in a creek with a stream flowing through.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14909><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=14910 border=0></a>
Merry Christmas O.M. ,not getting bored at all, these posts and pictures are keeping my inspirations high.
Christmas morning here has been a combination of brilliant sun(I forgot what it looked like) and high 40 degree temperatures that after working in bitter cold the past week feels warm and I am outside for short periods in just a T-shirt along with the snow cover. A white Christmas and warm weather. The best of all things.
I am still laughing inside over "Pisang Tok" it's on my wish list. Talk soon, Bob.
Tog Tan
12-25-2008, 11:04 AM
Hi Bob,
Aren't you supposed to be celebrating and half drunk now? So, I am the only buddy you have now...:ha:
Are you talking 40F or 40C? It's still raining like hell here and I have been donating blood like crazy to the leeches, especially today.
Hey, my word stays, I will get you a pup each of the following;
Kluay Hom Thong - Kluay Hom Thong Short Fruit - Pisang Ambon - Pisang Tok.
Howzat? You have to wait awhile for the cultivars to pup and then I will make it a point to get the paperwork done and have them shipped to you. My treat all the way.
I am supposed to get the Pisang Ambon soon. I have located someone growing it in some small kampong near my nursery.
Enjoy your holidays buddy!:bananas_b
bigdog
12-25-2008, 11:17 AM
Those are amazing pictures, Tog! 9 feet (3 meters) of pseudostem? That's a full meter taller then the original description (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/musa_violascens.htm)!
Perhaps this needs revisiting by taxonomists...Markku? Thanks so much for these pictures, Tog. There really aren't many pictures to be found on the net of these species in habitat, so they are invaluable!
lorax
12-25-2008, 11:23 AM
Tog, do you mind if I work up an article for the magazine based on your descriptions and photos?
Tog Tan
12-25-2008, 11:29 AM
Tog, do you mind if I work up an article for the magazine based on your descriptions and photos?
Milady, your wish is my command...:ha:
I will work on all the 4 known species found here in M'sia for you. I am still gathering materials for the Musa acuminata subsp malaccensis thread and will be visiting a couple more sites for the M gracilis. You see this darn plant have a at least 2 color variants for its flower. I will not rest until I know what is in my homeland :ha:
lorax
12-25-2008, 11:31 AM
Thankee, kind sir... :ha:
Tog Tan
12-25-2008, 11:54 AM
Those are amazing pictures, Tog! 9 feet (3 meters) of pseudostem? That's a full meter taller then the original description (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/musa_violascens.htm)!
Perhaps this needs revisiting by taxonomists...Markku? Thanks so much for these pictures, Tog. There really aren't many pictures to be found on the net of these species in habitat, so they are invaluable!
Frank,
I think Musa's will grow like crazy when given the right conditions. So far these two seldom talk about related species have hardly any proper documentation. Perhaps they were first discovered in the drier forest. You see the places I found them were very, very wet and there's tons of rotting plant materials (compost) for them to feed on continously. They are away from full sun, so they have to stretch. Remember you telling me about the Musa velutina which grew to 10ft at your friend's place? Same situation, I guess.
Here's a good one... When I first sent you a pix on your personal email with a bunch of fruits to identify, well.... I took another look at the pix a couple of days ago and it's a M violascens! Darn plant was one of the earliest ones I found and I didn't realize what it was! It was smack in the middle of the forest growing next to a stream.
'Rare' stuff are not hard to find if you can figure out their habitat. I used to get all the rare reptiles all the time. This is the same for certain genus of plants I want to find, figure it out and I find them 90% of the time. No secrets here. Where I am hunting now are my old reptile hunting grounds.
Cheers:ha:
Shouldn't you be sleeping Old Man? ! And no I'm freinds with Frank and Lorax too! It's 40F here ,I should be more conscious of that! Have been either outside enjoying a cigar or taking advantage of the weather to walk my dogs(Rottweiler and a Swiss mountain dog) through the snow in the woods for a few miles. Pups sound great, let me know what I can find for you.
Now I'm heading out to overindulge in food and drink..........cheers
Chironex
12-25-2008, 02:33 PM
I echo everyones sentiments about these bananas. Your description and photos are some of the most interesting on the site right now. This is one of the main reasons I joined the site.
Get these bad boys growing so that we can all enjoy them, Tog. I suggest that your work also be placed in the Wiki. There is no better source for these relatively unknown species. If I lived there, the nursery would be the size of 10 soccer fields!
Thanks for the insight and descriptions, photos and humor.
Keep up the good work.
dablo93
12-26-2008, 04:30 AM
this are some awesome pics! thank yu!
Tog Tan
02-15-2009, 10:38 AM
Don't you think it's BIG? It was in a creek and I am on the top of the drop.:woohoonaner:
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15670><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15670&size=1 border=0></a>
Hey people, just an update on what I found today, 15.02.09 Sunday.
This is the huge-est (if there's such a word) Muther of an M-v clump I have seen so far. I was looking for a certain Musa species (story coming soon folks!) in this area and I came across quite a number of M-v clumps. There were a number of big clumps, but they just can't beat this one, so I gotta to show y'all. I didn't even bother to count the number of plants in it. When I went down the creek to get a closer look, I saw more than 10 flower buds all blooming more or less at the same time. The color of the bud is above average. Whew...!!!:02:
For the M-v, you have to get real close to see the flower buds cos they are hidden by the heavy growth of the leaves. There were more than 10 flowers buds here.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14909><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15668 border=0></a>
Michael_Andrew
02-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Unbelievable! Awesome! Fantastic! Thanks TT!
What a clump!! I guess they like water. Thanks for posting pic.
buzzwinder
02-15-2009, 01:16 PM
Thats HUGE, and all those blooms at same time, GREAT pic Tog, Thanks!:bananas_b
Mark Hall
02-15-2009, 03:30 PM
Tog, You certainly find some exciting plants on your trips. Don't you ever get lost?:ha:
I love your trips into the jungle . Keep them coming ( with pictures please)
Tog Tan
02-15-2009, 04:00 PM
Tog, You certainly find some exciting plants on your trips. Don't you ever get lost?:ha:
I love your trips into the jungle . Keep them coming ( with pictures please)
Hi Mark,
Getting lost in the jungle? An old timer, an old hand like me? Huh? Of course I do!!!:ha:
Well, that was only once so far. Stupidly I went down a ravine and instead of keeping to a straight line, some nice palms made me go sideways and more.... Next thing I knew, the scenery changed and I realised I was in biggg trouble! As it rained the previous night, the slope was real slippery and I had to take my sandals off to get back up, or tried to. Really could not find my direction. You see, if you go into the forested area, the lighting is only about 40% or less even in the day. After quite a while, I gave up trying cos it was no use. There's a strong belief here about jungle spirits keeping people in. Know what I did? I took out a 'protection charm' which was given to me by an 80 year old bomoh (shaman like) and believe it or not the sun suddenly came out and I could see through the tree canopy the way to the top. Shucks, I huffed and puffed barefooted all the way up the slippery slope. When I finally got out, all I could do was to sit on the floor and smoked off a whole cigar to recover. After that time, no plants can tempt me to go off track. :ha:
Footnote: The best way to track in the jungle is barefooted as what the Orang Asli do all the time. I learnt it from them many years ago. Sandals are much better than shoes of any kind as they are lighter and when it's muddy, you can get them off. With shoes, the mud collected on the soles will put you off balance and you will have leeches in them. Barefooted, you can see the leeches climbing up and you can easily flick them off! I am so amused by the way people go jungle trekking with long sleeved shirts, long pants and boots. The Orang Asli go with shorts and a tee shirt and barefooted all the time. That's the way I go. It's not being macho, it's the best way.
Raules
02-15-2009, 10:16 PM
Hi Tog! Thanks for a photo, very beautifully. An interesting story... I probably precisely would lose the way in jungle, this beauty would absorb me.:ha: It seems to me, if there is no experience it is better to go with a conductor. Your talisman which was given to you by the shaman has helped you, I so think. Many people prefer such clothes, it seems to me, because in jungle many different mosquitoes and snakes. Probably simply are afraid.
Chironex
02-16-2009, 01:39 AM
Tog, your photos and excursion details make me want to start packing for Asia. I think I will bring a pocket GPS just in case. Seems to me that my northwoods experience wouldn't be worth a damn in the jungle. I think I am actually living vicariously through your escapades and forays. Good form! Keep it up! Sonner or late, I will be there. Carry on my friend!
Raules
02-16-2009, 03:45 AM
Hi Scot! Do not forget to take with itself in travel of video and a camera, it will be very interesting and rare banana material.:woohoonaner::02::0517:
harveyc
05-13-2009, 09:30 AM
Tog, I got a new GPS last week (my 4th) and am ready to go on a hike with you, after I drop 30 pounds or so!!! :ha:
lorax
05-13-2009, 09:35 AM
Getting lost in the jungle? An old timer, an old hand like me? Huh? Of course I do!!!:ha:
Oh god, it's not just me! How nice to know; I can get lost in my forests even with a GPS. Scot, Howard, they're great for cleared trails but the minute you get under canopy you lose signal and it's just another heavy chunk of plastic. There are better ways of marking where you came from.
And another person who goes barefoot in the woods. It is the best way, although I wear leather ankle gaiters (as do the Shuar) to protect me from the fer-de-lance.
Tog Tan
05-13-2009, 09:54 AM
And another person who goes barefoot in the woods. It is the best way, although I wear leather ankle gaiters (as do the Shuar) to protect me from the fer-de-lance.
I am always amazed that people who expect to meet snakes in the jungle always meet them. Not only amazed, very jealous really.....
I have the baddest luck in trying to see/find snakes in the wild. It's only a couple of times in my life I have only managed to collect snakes from the wild. Once I was out collecting pitcher plants, Nepenthes sp. I was so happy to find a nice rosette specimen and suddenlyI realised there's a red colored tail next to it. Since I wasn't out on a snake hunt, I found a twig and lifted it and in it went into one of the thin thrash bags which I keep plants from dehydrating. It was a red Tailed Viper, Trimerusurus poperium, a very venomous snake. And then home it went with me smiling all the way. :ha:
Another time I was driving in the jungles in my doorless CJ6 and I saw a racer slithering across the road. I pull the hand brakes, jump out and ran parallel to it and then over took it. Head on, I pressed its head to the ground before securing it. It turned out to be a Striped Tailed Racer, Elaphe radiata. I wish I had more encounters like these though I am always on the look out for them.:ha:
lorax
05-13-2009, 10:12 AM
Actually, Tog, I don't expect to meet them. I take a sensible precaution since there's no antivenom for the FDL (Bothrops atox and B. asper). I generally go into the jungle expecting big cats, and since I'm a quiet person by nature I get what I expect most times. (exception being when I go in with other people. They don't know how to walk, so anything interesting runs away.) I only rarely see the very poisonous snakes; the Corals (Micrurus bocourti, usually) are much more common, although they tend to hide so I don't know that they're there until I step on them or put my stick into a nest.
The best, though, was a deep-jungle trip where we ran across a huge anaconda. This thing was so big that it had a barrel like a horse. I'm glad that we were in the boat and it was in the river, truth be told.
Mark Hall
05-13-2009, 10:50 AM
I am always amazed that people who expect to meet snakes in the jungle always meet them. Not only amazed, very jealous really.....
I have the baddest luck in trying to see/find snakes in the wild. It's only a couple of times in my life I have only managed to collect snakes from the wild. Once I was out collecting pitcher plants, Nepenthes sp. I was so happy to find a nice rosette specimen and suddenlyI realised there's a red colored tail next to it. Since I wasn't out on a snake hunt, I found a twig and lifted it and in it went into one of the thin thrash bags which I keep plants from dehydrating. It was a red Tailed Viper, Trimerusurus poperium, a very venomous snake. And then home it went with me smiling all the way. :ha:
Another time I was driving in the jungles in my doorless CJ6 and I saw a racer slithering across the road. I pull the hand brakes, jump out and ran parallel to it and then over took it. Head on, I pressed its head to the ground before securing it. It turned out to be a Striped Tailed Racer, Elaphe radiata. I wish I had more encounters like these though I am always on the look out for them.:ha:
Tog, do you think you could treat us all to a post with your reptiles you have had/kept. Pictures needed of course.
Tog Tan
05-13-2009, 10:59 AM
Tog, do you think you could treat us all to a post with your reptiles you have had/kept. Pictures needed of course.
Dear Sir Mark,
This would be a big task for me as at that time, digital camera haven't come into existence and all I have are hard copies. So in order to do it, first I need to dig up the pix (seriously tons of it) and then have them scanned. I would get it done when I am not too lazy. However, if the lady who lives next to you tells me to get it done, of course it will be less than a jiffy! :ha:
Mark Hall
05-13-2009, 11:07 AM
:ha:I think her Maj likes Snakes...after all she married one:ha:
Tog Tan
05-13-2009, 11:17 AM
:ha:I think her Maj likes Snakes...after all she married one:ha:
:ha::ha::ha::ha::ha::ha: That's a bloody good one mate! :ha::ha::ha::ha::ha:
harveyc
05-13-2009, 11:26 AM
Hey, Beth, I just picked up this top-model GPS unit Amazon.com: Garmin Oregon 400T 3-Inch Touchscreen Handheld GPS Unit with Preloaded Topographic Maps: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B17O60/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_item) (since it was on sale and had a rebate) which users say is able to pick up signals even when under forest canopy. My old one from 10-15 years ago sure wouldn't do that. I've yet to give it a try, though. Maybe I need to come visit! :)
lorax
05-13-2009, 11:45 AM
Bulls#($. I have the newest Garmin eTrex (a really good GPS), and it caks in deep woods. I'm talking about 20% light condition and you've got 5 layers between you and the sky. Yours will probably work fine in North American woods (mine does), but the Jungle is a whole different ballgame. Here's a test for you. Go to the deepest layer of the deepest underground parking lot you can find, and turn on your GPS. If you get a signal there, you'll maybe be able to get a signal in jungle conditions.
harveyc
05-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Underground garage?? Nah, I'd rather try a real world test and go banana hunting (and snake hunting?) with Tog! :D
Tog Tan
05-13-2009, 03:41 PM
Bulls#($. I have the newest Garmin eTrex (a really good GPS), and it caks in deep woods. I'm talking about 20% light condition and you've got 5 layers between you and the sky. Yours will probably work fine in North American woods (mine does), but the Jungle is a whole different ballgame. Here's a test for you. Go to the deepest layer of the deepest underground parking lot you can find, and turn on your GPS. If you get a signal there, you'll maybe be able to get a signal in jungle conditions.
Good idea for an absent minded car park-er. (Doesn't sound vulgar I hope?)
Underground garage?? Nah, I'd rather try a real world test and go banana hunting (and snake hunting?) with Tog! :D
Harv, I don't use the GPS, OA is super great especially in the deepest of jungles! :ha:
harveyc
05-13-2009, 04:15 PM
When I come to visit I still bring my GPS as I think you'll leave my fat butt in the dust (or is it mud at the bottom of the hill?)!!! I'll catch up to you eventually! :ha:
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