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View Full Version : Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro


Mauro Gibo
09-01-2008, 09:45 AM
I was born in Brazil, which is a tropical country and our people grew bananas all year round, then when I was 15 years old I moved to Okinawa, Japan. The Okinawans also have bananas all year round because it is a subtropical island. After living 25 years in Okinawa I moved to Kameyama City. Mie Prefecture, Japan's Main Island called Hoshu. For these past 20 years I have been growing all sorts of fruit plants including bananas. A lot of them died because of the cold winter. But I found a type of banana which is very cold resistant although the fruit is not edible. This year I have grafted Raja Puri and Shima Banana in the cold resistant type. I am trying to cross-breed the bananas so I may get a cold resistant edible variety. I don't know yet the results that I may get. But I am sure putting a lot of effort. I'll let nature decide that for me. I love plants and I'm pretty good in growing them. My neighbors call me green fingers, because I always get a good harvest of what I plant. I also grow a lot of citrus fruits too, not mentioning vegetables because I learned a lot of farming from the Japanese people. The Japanese have been doing farming for thousands of years.

Welcome to the Org. Mauro, :bananas_b

Thank you for accepting me as a member of your community. I will do my best do share my knowledge with you guys and also expect myself to learn a lot from your experiences in farming or plant growing. I think it is a great thing to share ideas and experiences will other people around the world, since we all live in the same planet. The leaders of our nations are already discussing the problem of environmental distruction, but I think it is not enough. Everyone of us civilians should contribute at least a little bit to improve our environmental conditons, planting trees, because they are the lungs of the earth producing clean air or oxigen. Once again, thank you for your warm welcome. Bye, Mauro.

Welcome to the forum, Mauro!

Do you really mean you grafted a banana. I do a lot of grafting of different trees and have heard of melons being grafted, but can't imagine it being done with bananas. Do you have any photos to show you you did this?

Thanks,

Harvey

I didn't take any pictures when I was grafting, but today is raining so I think the weather is proper for grafting. I will graft another banana tree again, take pictures and post them in my Thread. This is what I do:
I take 2 shoots of young bananas, split them in half, especially the roots which are the real trunk of the banana tree, join the 2 pieces, tie them together real strong, like husband and wife, plant them in the ground and wait for the baby, half breed to be born. If you check in the internet you will learn that primitive people have been doing this sort of grafting or marriage for thousands of years. The edible bananas we eat were produced by primitive people in a primitive way. The original banana tree in the stone age was not edible. All the edible bananas we eat at the present time were created by us humans. I call it grafting, but it should be called forced marriage. Unifying blood with blood, or genes with genes, creating a new species. I just marry them, nature will do the rest. I hope you will agree with me. Thanks.
Mauro.

Well, guys, I'm back to the community again. I went yo my orchard, dug out 2 bananas shoots. One from the Musa Basjoo, the other from the Raja Puri and did what I've been calling "Banana Grafting". Which may not be a grafting but a cross-breeding of 2 varieties of bananas. Instead of calling it grafting, maybe I should call it "tempering with genetics of the banana plants". I called a friend who has a banana plantation in Brazil and he said they do a lot of grafting in the banana trees. Maybe, the expression Grafting is wrong. Should I call it Cross-breeding? or is there a better term to express what I have been doing? One thing I know, the new shoots that grew out of the ground have different characteristics of the ones I planted. I grafted for the third time and this time I took a lot of pictures and made a video. I posted it today, on my blogs. Please, if you have time view my video. at:
mauro-gibo on Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/mauro-gibo)
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself (http://jp.youtube.com/results?search_query=Mijigua193&search_type=&aq=f)
Thank you. I also really appreciate all of your comments.
For me, planting bananas and working with them in this cold country is a big challenge.

I got the information that in Brazil, farmers who grow bananas for commercial purpose, do not plant different kinds of bananas near their banana plantation afraid of clone variation. How about that ?
For me, it means that there are constant natural clone variation occurrence in the banana plant. So, if I graft them together, there should be some kind of influence or change in their genes. Well, I think we should study more about the characteristics of the banana plant. What do you think?
It's a point to ponder. Isn't it ?

Well, guys, I'm here again trying to prove my theory about grafting bananas.
I grafted the bananas and now I have to sit and wait until next spring for the results to come. I will not keep them in a green house. I don't have one, and I don't intend to build one. I'm against climate warming. Some of you guys disaprove my stone age techniques, but as I am a westerner who feed on a stincky sea weed here in Asia and enjoy eating raw fish, sashimi, I think I'll stick to my unchangable convictions. I'll have the patience of a pregnant woman waiting 9 months for her baby to be born. I'be wating for my half-breed banana seedlings to sprout from the ground with different characteristics from their bulb parents. I hope. Here, let me tell you an incridible story but true, because I saw it with my own bare eyes. When I was young and lived in Brazil, my parents where farmers. In our farm there was a male papaya plant. Of course, only the female papaya plant produces fruits, the male plant doesn't. My father said in Portuguese, our native language that he was going to "capar o pe de mamao macho", that means in English: He was going to castrate the male papaya plant and make it produce fruits. I had seen him castrate pigs, but papaya plants, that's really crazy or a stupid thing to do. That's impossible ! Well, he did it. How? Well, he got a wedge, a piece of wood, and inserted it into the trunk of the papaya tree about 10 centimeters above grownd level with a big hammer. Few months later, we picked papaya fruits from the male tree. Believe it or not, I ate papaya from that tree. I guess, the papaya tree didn't want to die without leaving successors to his lineage. So, he started producing his own descendents. Can you believe this abnormal phenomenon ? You may not, but I do ! Because I saw it. Thanks for taking your time to read my crazy story incredible but true, Bye guys. I'll be back with my crazy ideas again until someone expells me from the community. Bye.

Hi. guys. Heeeere is Mauro again. First of all I would like to thank everyone who took his precious time to view my long 10 minute video "Grafting bananas" in the You Tube. I envy all of you guys who are able to go to the plant store and my so many kinds of specimens of bananas. Here in main land Japan, there is none. They have all sorts of beatiful flowers for sale, but no plants related to the musas. I did some study about banana consumption in Japan and here is my report:
Japan imports 1.000.000 tons of bananas from abroad every year.
88.5% from Mindanao Island, Philippines.
8.5% from Ecuador, South America.
1.4% from Taiwan.
Production of bananas in Japan, Okinawa, very very small quantity, The Shima banana. Because we have from 20 to 30 typhoons a year. No can do !
They harvest a very small quantity, maybe not enough even to offer to the shrines of their ancestors as is the custom of the island people of Okinawa.
To get the Raja Puri I had my brother to smuggle it for me from the US.
The Quarantine of the Airports will not allow us to import plants from the outside world. Not even the Shima banana.We can't bring the plants to main land, because of some plant deseases we have in Okinawa. Bye, for now. This forum is really fun. I enjoy reading the Threads posted.

About my mystical philosophy of grafting banana shoots, pups, etc. I say naked because I have nothing to hide. Maybe nothing good to offer, either, but one thing I know, I got a lot o people curious about the subject of grafting bananas which makes one wonder about the secrets and power of nature. I also grow azaleas and I've read in a book that you should not plant a azalea in the same spot where there was a azalea plant before. Why? Because it doesn't want any rival of the same species to take its place. So it leaves something in the soil that will not let the new azalea grow well. It's a kind of poison to destroy its rival. It's private property so stay away from my place, it's a warning to other azaleas.
Well, let's talk about banana plants, which is my main topic. After doing my experiment trying what probably nobody else tried before, to make an arranged forced marriage between too different types of banana shoots, by cutting the shoots and tying them together like husband and wife. One thing I can certainly guarantee is that there will be no divorce. If they are planning to have offsprings or not I, at the present time, I still don't know, because I have left them to survive by their natural instincts and the ways of nature.
To escape from this trap set is impossible. Maybe, they will poison each other like the azaleas or they will learn to behave properly and be as one integrated whole. That will be left for them to behave according to their natural instincts. After doing this experiment, I started checking in the internet all the informations about the banana plant. As I can read Portuguese, Spanish, Japanese and English I got montains of information around me that I can't see Mount Fuji anymore. I'm lost and I lost my direction. I took my first step towards my thousand mile journey and sometimes, I have the feelings I should turn back and hide in my cave. But who really understands the nature and rhythm of the universe? We humans have to reject our instincts and live according to man-made laws, customs, and traditions which are contrary to the ways of nature. The plants don't have to follow any rule at all. Anyway, I found out that at La Lima, Honduras, United Brands maintains a collection of 470 cultivars and 100 species of bananas. So, there is no need for me, the back-yard scientist to try to create a new species of bananas. Also, the Imperial College of Tropical Agriculture in Trinidad, in 1928, created the Golden Beauty, which is resistent to The Panama and Sigatoka deseases. Brazil, also, after loosing the Apple Banana, affected by the mentioned diseases, produced a new variety called The Princess, which is very resistant and has a similar flavor. Well, after knowing about so many sophisticated laboratories around the world with the highest technoloy on bio culture, I fell like a little ant stealing sugar from a donnut on the table.
One more thing I would like to confess, whatever the result I get by my naive primitive experiment, will not change or take away the joy I have to dig the soil in my back yard and have direct contact with nature itself. Like the song "El Condor Pasa", I'd rather be a forest than a street, yes, I would, I'f I only could I surely, would!" .
Thank you, for taking your precious time. And I'd like to say to all the members of this forum, that I love to read their comments. No hard feelings at all. There is so much wisdom and good intentions in the words of everyone. Thanks a lot. And please forgive my miss spellings. My English is rusty, as I live in Japan which the spoken language is Japanese. Sayonara.

Dear friends of the Banana Forum:
I hope you're not tired of reading my nonsense threads about banana grafting.
I would like you to know that I called my Brazilian friend, the banana grower again. And according to his instructions I cut off one of the suckers and let only one shoot grow. Should we give credit to a banana shaman? Who could be a foolish or wise old tribesman. Anyway, I've got to get to the bottom of this.
I followed his instructions and made a video called Grafting Bananas Stage II.
http://jp.youtube.com/my_videos
mauro-gibo on Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/mauro-gibo)
If you are interested, please view my new video, Grafting Bananas Stage II.
I'm only doing what I'm told to do.
I'd like to mention that we've recycled the wrong information for about 2 thousand years concerning who built the pyramids. A greek went to Egypt about 2 thousand years ago and got the information that the pyramids were built by slaves. Now, the archeologists are saying that they were public constructions and that the laborers got full payment for their days work. They found the tombs of the constructors and have the records of their wages paid. Also that so and so didn't come to work because he had to go to a wedding. Another guy didn't come to work because he had a hangover.
That's why I think we should check this grafting technique? Is it true or false?
I'm willing to follow it up to the end! Thanks. Sorry for the incovenience, bothering you guys all the time. I know there are many plant experts in the forum. Lots of different points of view. I'm very happy about it. Bye and thank you gain.

Mauro, I watched your videos and must say it is fascinating to me. I really want to see your method do the unexpected and create a half-breed pup. Would we then call it a mutt? Just kidding, but this would be something I will try if it works for you.

Scot this is Mauro replying about the flower "Tree Dahlia".
I haven't been growing any Dahlias, lately. I think the flower you saw in my video is the Hibiscus syriacus. It's Korea's National flower. The ordinary hibiscus we grow in Okinawa, a sub-tropical island, can't resit the cold around here. But the hibiscus Syriacus can. It's very, very cold resistant. It has many collors and types of flowers. You can see this beautiful flower everywhere in Japan. Japan, before W.W.II occupied the Korean Peninsula for about 30 years. At the time then, they brought many Koreans to work in the coal mines in Japan, forced labor, of course. The Koreans brought this flower and planted them in their houses to remind them of their beloved home. It is a very sentimental flower to the large number of Koreans who continue living in Japan. Remember Korea is a snow country. I, myself, didn't know that this flower was a member of the hibiscus family. Thank for your support in my long experiment journey. You know that I'm not the beloved Reverend anymore. I killed the wealthy husband tree. Let's wait to see what happens next. Or if I get a new information from the Brazilian bananeiro, I will let everybody know. By the way, I sent the grafting question to a Brazilian Plant Research Center, government controlled, they said they would answer me within 8 days. It has been more than 2 weeks, now, and I never got any answer. I think I got all the Brazilian botanical experts very confused. In Brazil you never know what's real or what's unreal. It could even be a voodoo ritual practice. Well, what have I to lose in waiting with endurable patience?
Thanks, bye for the moment.

that makes more sense to me now thanks for the clarification and i agree 100% with you on that but the kid in me whats to believe it!!!!!! ( common Windy Never Land is just to the north of that star!)LOL
Hi, damaclese !
Why do people go to Las Vegas? To try their luck, right ? Even knowing that you can't beat a machine, you will still try. And as a result come home dead broke. Well, I've decided to try my luck with this very, very slim chance. Maybe one in a million. To graft a banana pup. I'm really embarassed that I saw a little smoke and thought that it was a big fire. But, still, something inside of me tells me not to get disheartened. Is my experiment a folk tale? I've asked myself a thousand times. To tell you the truth I don't know. But I'll sure find out, by next spring. God willing. I'm sorry to be such a big mouth, I should have done my experiment in silence...
Here is some words that keep me on my track:
"Those who speak know nothing;
Those who know are silent."
These words, I'm told,
Were spoken by Lao-tzu.
If we are to believe that Lao-tzu
Was himself one who knew,
How is it that he wrote a book
Of five thousand words?
This is just an excuse for my big mouth. Thank you for supporting my theory, although there is so slim a chance. Bye, for now let me hide in my cave until I get more concrete proof of my experiment.

Hey Welcome!!! I look forward to seeing you around!!!
Kylie Hi, Kylie!
I'm scared to appear again in the forum and people really find out that I'm crazy. Up to now, they only have the impression. They guess, but they are not sure, yet. I have the assurance that I am nuts. After all the noise I've made about grafting bananas, without any concrete proof to back me up, I decided to hide in my cave until I get good results of my experiment. I could be deadly wrong about this banana grafting, but I trust my green fingers. The Japanese have been grafting Bonsai for 3000 years. The grafting practice was not invented yesterday. I would like to tell you something about my weird thinking. America was discovered in 1492. Brazil was discovered in April 22, 1500 by a Portuguese called Pedro Alvares Cabral. We have a culture of 500 years. Since then, we've had papayas growing in our villages and towns all around the country. But we never found out the green papayas can be eaten as a vegetable. I came to Japan in 1966. For the first time in my life, in Okinawa, I ate green papaya as a vegetable cooked with pork luncheon meat. We've had papaya in our back yards in Brazil all our lives and we didn't know we could eat it as a vegetable. When we didn't have any vegetables to eat, my mother would collect the tip of the vines of the pumpkin plant and cook them with chili beans, as a vegetable. Another thing, all Brazilians eat the chayote. I don't know any Brazilian who doesn't like to eat the chayote as a vegetable. But in Okinawa although we grow it everywhere, nobody eats them. They give them to the pigs. They don't know it is a delicious vegetable. If I am skillful enough with my green fingers, and get the right partners, I'm sure I am going to make this miracle happen. They are many amazing things we can do around us, but we don't notice them. Please, wish me luck, I'll be hiding in my cave for a while, bye for now, and thanks. for welcoming this awesome hermit to the forum again. Bye!

I have only begun studying the teachings of Lao-tzu and Taoism in general. It is soothing and helps me find tranquility in this crazy world.

Here is something that explains the Yin and Yang of Taoist thought as it applies to your banana grafting experiment:


http://www.1000ventures.com/design_elements/selfmade/ten3design_pic_happiness-tao.png (http://ten3design.com/happiness.aspx)
If you can find true contentment, it will last forever.
Embrace simplicity. Put others first. Desire little.
No disaster is worse than being discontented. Hi, Scot! I'm back to the world. Couldn't hide in the cave too long. I missed all of you guys of the forum. Big mouth can't stay quiet, very long. About my experiment: The sucker that grew from the ground after I grafted the 2 individual shoots, has different characteristics. And is growing normally. The temperature here in Japan, at the present time is proper for the grouth of the musas. I found something very interesting about chimeras in the net and I'd like everyone interested to read it. Here it is: chimeras - Google ŒŸõ (http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=ja&q=chimeras&btnG=Google+%E6%A4%9C%E7%B4%A2&lr=&aq=f&oq=)
The article is related to us humans, but it could happen in the plant world. exchange of cells in between 2 different individuals. Some cells could try to repair the damaged tissue, which I cut and made the surgery. I thought it was very interesting when I read about microchimerism. The impossible may happen more often than we think. As you've noticed, I like to read a lot about Confucianism, Taoism and neo confucionism. The Japanese culture is a blend of the 3 plus Buddhism. No wonder, I got brain washed here in Japan and forgot about my own culture. I'd like to thank you and all the other members for their encouraging comments on my experiment, although the chance of getting a banana chimera is very slim. Bye for now, I'll be back again soon. Bye.

I found Harvey's comments challenging, so I did a search on how the banana came to the Western Hemisphere and found the following article from the International Banana Association:
International Banana Association (http://www.eatmorebananas.com/facts/history.htm)

It appears that I was not entirely accurate. The first banana's route to the Americas from SE Asia was through Africa, Europe, the Caribbean, thence South America. So, it was not from the Philippines to America. My contention that the yellow banana was already in existence, though, is still correct. The banana was brought to the Caribbean in 1516. Years before that, the Portuguese brought the banana to the Canary Islands where they were cultivated.

It would be extremely unlikely that a natural hybridizing process could occur in a short span of 20 years. Unless, one of the Jamaican farmer's workers performed a "grafting process" similar to Mauro's. And so, why not? If hybridizing can be done on a cellular level, the "splicing" of two different corm halves is just the same procedure. Only it is done with several thousand times bigger materials. Hi, everyone!
This is Mauro back to the forum. I'm silent now, as silent as a tomb. Sorry for my miss spellings, my eyes fail me. I guess it's my age and my diabetes. Insulin everyday. Got to face it, I had too much to drink when I was younger. I guess my days are counted. I read all of your discussions about the history of the bananas coming to the Americas and its propagation. It's amazing you guys do a lot of reading and writing too. I made another experiment with mature specimens. If your interested, please view my new video;
Dailymotion - Grafting mature banana plants_0001, a video from mauro-gibo. Banana, breeding, grafting, bananas, Bananas (http://www.dailymotion.com/mauro-gibo/video/x6vz1y_grafting-mature-banana-plants0001_news)
Sorry, I'm a primitive man who enjoy primitive techniques.
By for now. I'll be back again, sometime in the near future with reports about my experiment. By the way, the Brazilian Research Center still didn't answer my question about grafting yet. I intend to keep bugging them until I get an answer. Bye, everyone.

Good to see you back again Mauro! I enjoyed seeing your new video. Will you be cutting-off one of the parent plants soon, as you did on the previous banana graft?
I would like to see some photos of the pups from the first graft.Hi, Scot! Greetings. First of all, thank you, for your reply. Arigatou gozaimasu. Here is a little bit about my theory:
First a story. Once upon a time an alpinist was climbing a very high mountain. Unfortunately, he could not reach the base camp before dark, the cliff was too steep. To make matters worst, one of the pins holding the rope broke loose and he fell into the abyss. Luckly, the second lockpin was strong enough to hold his weight and he stayed there hanging in the cliff holding on to the rope in the darkness and the freezing cold. After a while he looked up to the dark sky and prayed: God! Please, save me from death. God answered his prayer and said: "Cut the rope"!
................................................................ ........................................
Next day, his companions found him dead, hanging on the rope 2 feet above the ground. He was frozen. What happened to his faith in God?
I think that faith is very important and I have a lot of faith in my experiment.
Another thing about my experiment, I think it needs a lot of skill, do the right thing at the right time, like they do with the Bonsai. Bully the specimen at the right time, not kill it. When I bully with one plant, that plant will rely on his partner for survival support. Anyone in trouble will ask for a helping hand. I believe all living things do, even plants. When I cut or bully one specimen, that specimen will send a S.O.S. cell to the other plant. The natural instinct of the plant is to guarantee the next generation by leaving offsprings. I think that the bullied plant will send gametes to the other plant for survival. The most difficult thing is not grafting, it's how you discipline them. I'll bully with the two specimen, but always at the right time, until I get a new hybrid. In Brazil when the mango tree doesn't produce fruits, they make a lot of cuts in the trunk, bully the tree to make it bear fruits. I heard they do that with the avocado tree, too. I'll keep you informed. Bye, for now.

Part of going to school in the Philippines is learning Philippine History (and also, US History, believe it or not it was mandatory). Magellan's journey to circumnavigate the world ended for him in the Philippines after he tried to overcome a "macho" chieftain from Mactan Island, where he was killed. That was April 1521. His surviving 18 crew members completed the journey (they started with crew of 270). He was the first European to set foot on Philippine soil. The Galleon Trade was from 1565 to 1815, with the last sailing from Manila in 1811, and the return trip from Acapulco was four years later in 1815.

I could be wrong, but I do not believe that New World fruits were available in the Philippines before 1521, and vice-versa, since there was no way for the plants to get from one place to the other, otherwise. I think the name of the macho chieftain was Lapulapu. I never forgot his name because it is also the name of a very delicious fish in the Filipino cuisine. When I was young I went to aviation school in the Philippines. I also graduated from San Sebastian College in Santa Mesa, Manila. Bye. I love history and also know about Jose Rizal and that El Cano, a spaniard took the honors of Fernao de Magalhaes.

You must know that having lived in the Philippines, once you are at home with the people there, they consider you a Filipino. All you have to say when you get back there is exactly what you just said. "I graduated from 'Basté' (San Sebastian)" and they'll know that you are an expatriate that went to school in San Sebastian College, near the San Beda University.

May I have the honor to say, "Mabuhay!" to you and your endeavors. I am anxious and excited to see the results of your experiments.

Lapu-lapu was a chieftain who was a renegade and did not always agree with the chiefs of the neighboring islands, although his island of Mactan was many times smaller than his neighbors. After converting to Catholicism, the other chieftains convinced Magellan to invade Mactan Island and capture Lapu-lapu.

With superior arms, Magellan thought that bolos (long knives) and sharpened bamboo spears would be no match for cannons and muskets. He was right, of course. But he made the mistake of not reconnoitering the area and brazenly attacked before sunrise, which unfortunately was at low tide. The ships ran aground at a distance which rendered their cannons out of range of shores of the island.

They decided to attack on dinghies, whereupon they were pummeled by arrows and bamboo spears. And the sheer numbers of the natives were so overwhelming, that before Magellan and the ship's captain could reach the shores on foot, they had been hit in their legs with arrows.

Instead of retreating, they pressed on and was met by Lapu-lapu brandishing a Kampilan, a long single edged broadsword, and defeated the aggressors. (It was a lot more gory than that, but in deference to the site audience, I thought it best not to elaborate.) Thus ending the conflict, and the surviving crew was able to return to Spain.

There are two kinds of fish called Lapu-lapu, named after this chieftain. One is the delicious rock fish related to the Red Snapper, and is a special treat in restaurants, or in festivities at home. Usually prepared as "Escaveche", deep fried whole fish and served with a not so sweet and not so sour sauce with thinly sliced green papaya slivers, carrots, ginger and garlic.

The other fish is a deep sea fish that can grow upwards of over 300 pounds, the Sea Bass, which is a relative of the famous Chilean Sea Bass. This is the fish that was named after the chieftain, allegedly, after he dove into the water and single handedly fought, captured and killed this large fish with his bare hands. (Well, maybe he had a knife.)

I don'tknow if this big fish is good for sashimi, but I know that pan fried steaks of this fish, with mildly spicy ginger sauce, is awesome!Hi, Chong, thank you for your warm welcome, Salamat po. I am a Brazilian with a Pilipino corazon who lives in Japan. I fell in love with Pilipinas about 35 years ago when I went to visit my relatives in Calinan, Mindanao Island. My uncle had a hacienda in Mindanao and he married a Pilipina woman from the Bagobo tribe, by the Suwawan river. I have many cousins living in Mindanao even today. They live in Davao City. I often visit the Pilipinas and watch the sunset at Manila Bay, very, very beatiful! My favorite breakfast in the Philippines is red papaya with calamansi juice. Pilipino ethnic food is the best, not to mention the San Miguel beer. No wonder I got diabetes, I ate too much lechons in Manila. About the lapu-lapu fish, they are all good for sashimi. We have lapu-lapu in Okinawa too, but it is too expensive. I lived in Manila for many years and I have many friends there. I also lived in Xiamen, Fujian Province, China. I imported marble stones from Fujian to Japan. I've been everywhere in South East Asia, and I adore mangosteen too. Bye, for now, I'll be back. Gracias y hasta luego.

Hi, to all the members of the forum ! This is the loco-loco carabao from Mindanao!
The most weirdo of the human species, Mauro Gibo, the Brazilian dude. Trying to prove the impossible. All I have left is guts! Hope, very, very, slim. The Brazilian Tropical Fruits Research Center, in Cruz das Palmas City, Bahia State, has answered my question about grafting banana plants. Here it is:

"Prezado Senhor Mauro
Desculpe-me pelo atraso em respondê-lo. Estive viajando para uma região
onde não tinha acesso à internet. Com relação a sua pergunta, gosaria de
informar que em bananeira não é possível fazer enxertos. Por outro lado,
algumas bananas disponíveis no mercado, uim pouco diferentes das
tradicionais, não são resultados de enxertos e sim, são híbridas e
apresentam resistência à doença. Ou seja, essas bananas resultaram do
cruzamento de banana comercial com outra que tinha resistência a
determinada doença."
Sorry it is in Portuguese. But here is the translation: Banana plants are impossible to graft. The different kinds of bananas we find in the market are the results of hybridization. They are very resistant to many deseases of the banana plants.
Please wish me all the luck you can! Because, I feel like galileo who died saying the world was round. I the Brazilian "Samurai", will die saying that it is possible to graft bananas, even if all the odds are against me. Bye, and thank you for your patience in reading my nonsense. Bye, next spring I'll have a new cultivar in my back yard through grafting. By the way, Carabao means water bufallo.

Dear friends and fellow plant growers of the Banana Org. Forum. After weeks and months of meditation in my cave, here, in the Far East I have decided to come back to the forum and expose my mystical experiments, theories and my Taoist phisophy. My theme is yet the same: Grafting Banana Specimens.
First of all, Greetings to everyone !
"Man follows the ways of the Earth,
The Earth follows the ways of Heaven,
Heaven follows the ways of Tao,
Tao follows its own ways."
That means that I will always follow my own way of grafting banana specimens no matter the hardships or contradictory point of views of my fellow botanists through out the world. I would like to repeat the words of the 3 Japanese Nobel Prize winners Mr. Nambu Youichi, Mr. Kobayashi Makoto and Mr. Masukawa Toshihide: "The most important thing to achieve your goal and success is the spirit of never quitting, no matter how difficult your experiment may be!" I intend to follow their teachings and never quit my grafting experiment until I get a new banana cultivar through grafting which still is considered impossible by many botanists and experts in biotechnology. Especially those who dedicate themselves to the tissue culture of the banana plant. Up to now, through my way of grafting banana shoots of different variety I have succeeded only in getting variegated species. I have not yet achieved my goal of getting a new banana cultivar of unchangeable identity. In the former threads I have said that I would not stop bugging the Brazilian Government Controlled Research Centers about my question. Is there really a method of grafting banana plants by the native Brazilians which we yet do not know of? Do the Brazilian farmers have an ancient stone age, simple method of grafting bananas, or not? Here is the second reply of my questions:
" Não existe nada a respeito de enxerto nos manuais técnicos sobre
bananeira. A prática que está referindo, não é enxerto e sim desbaste. A
retirada de brotos evitando a formação de touceira é muito importante,
pois evita competição entre plantas e aumenta o tamanho do cacho da
planta que fica. Existem outras explicações para obtenção de cachos
grandes no Vale da Ribeira. A primeira é que lá se cultiva banana
Nanicão ou Grande Naine que produzem cachos grandes. A segunda é que, em
algumas propriedades faz-se uma boa adubação e menejo da cultura, o que
ajuda a produzir bons cachos." Sorry again, it is in Portuguese not English, but here is a simple translation of the original:
In the Technical Manuals of Propagation Bananas, there is no information about this practice. The practice you have inquired about is called rough-hew. We leave few suckers to avoid grouth competition among them, which is very important, so the banana plants can produce larger bunches of bananas. There are other methods to obtain larger bunches of bananas in the Ribeira Valley, Southern region of Brazil. One of them is that they grow the Nanicao or the Grand Naine cultivar. The other pratice is that they fertilize the soil properly and apply the adequate management for the banana plantation to obtain good and bigger bunches.
I am not yet satisfied with the answers I've got, but I think it is time to stop bugging the Rearch Centers of Brazil. I do not want to annoy them anymore. That, only, I shall quit! But I will still continue my naive experiments for my own satisfaction.
I have decided to return to the forum today and open my big mouth, because I am very happy. I am not afraid of the coming cold winter and my banana specimens aren't either. I checked my plants and saw new suckers coming out of the ground. They are healthy and beautiful. That means that I don't have to wait for the spring to come like a pregnant woman anymore. My beautiful pups were already born, what shall I call them Chironex? Pups, Mutts or Mongrels? Half-breed banana pups?...
I'd like to speak a little about my philosophy: My Tao Te Ching, "The Way of Life":
"Everyone says that my way of life is the way of a simpleton.
Being largely the way of a simpleton is what makes it worth while....
These possessions of a simpleton being the three I choose
And cherish:
To care,
To be fair,
To be humble.
When a man cares he is unafraid,
When he is fair he leaves enough for others,
When he is humble he can grow.
...See how fine the palaces
And see how poor the farms,
How bare the pesants granaries
While gentry wear embroideries
Hiding sharpened arms.
And the more they have the more they seize,
How can there be such men as these
Who never hunger, never thirst,
Yet eat and drink until they burst!
By Lao-tzu, harmony with nature, posted by Mauro Gibo.
I'm sorry, but I have to leave now. My banana babies wait for me. Thank you for taking your precious time to read my thread. Here is an ancient saying from the fareast to my friends of the forum:
Above all, I hope I don't buy the hate of the American ladies, especially the ladies of the forum.
Best things in life: Live in an American house, eat Chinese food and have a Japanese lady as a wife.
Worst things in life: Live in a Japanese house, eat British food and have an American wife.
Please forgive this simpleton with a big big mouth.
Bye for now. Once again, forgive me.

harveyc
09-01-2008, 10:01 AM
Welcome to the forum, Mauro!

Do you really mean you grafted a banana. I do a lot of grafting of different trees and have heard of melons being grafted, but can't imagine it being done with bananas. Do you have any photos to show you you did this?

Thanks,

Harvey

Dean W.
09-01-2008, 03:36 PM
Mauro Gibo, welcome to the community!:waving:

buzzwinder
09-01-2008, 05:21 PM
Welcome to the Org. Mauro, :bananas_b

Chironex
09-01-2008, 07:54 PM
I have asked this question before, but now I am really intrigued. This is just the thing I have been searching to find, but there is nothing about grafting bananas on the internet that I could find.
Does this work with edible fruiting bananas, sterile triploids?

harveyc
09-01-2008, 07:58 PM
From what I understand, no gene transfer would take place by such grafting. Still, I'd very much like to see the photos. I'd like to see how long such a plant survives and how well it thrives, etc.

Thanks,

Harvey

moomooman
09-01-2008, 09:49 PM
That grafting sounds very interesting! On a side note, my grandpa was stationed over in Okinawa in the 50s. Anyways, welcome!
:bananas_b

chong
09-02-2008, 01:15 AM
The only thing on the net regarding banana graft is the "banana graft procedure" on regular trees. There is nothing on grafting bananas plants, which I don't think is possible. As far as I know, most edible bananas have evolve through natural hybridization and not through human intervention. Even with the mango (mangifera indica) and lanzones (lansium domesticum) are what they are now because of natural hybridization in the wilds. Although fables in the Philippines says that there was Divine intervention (notably by the Virgin Mary) to convert what was once toxic into two of the most delicious fruits in the world.

Hybridization in Honduras of new varieties is attained on cellular level, rather than mature plants. It could also involve exposure of the cells to irradiation procedures in order to hasten the alteration of their physical characteristics. It has been suggested that research methods in Thailand have included irradiation in order to produce new variegated varieties of bananas and other plants.

Personally, I would be interested in learning a procedure for banana breeding utilizing mature plant specimens.

chong
09-02-2008, 01:28 AM
On the other hand, here is an article that supports Mauro's statement regarding humankind's intervention to produce the edible banana:
Yes, We'll Have No Bananas - Thanks to Selective Breeding, our Favourite Fruit can Neither Reproduce nor Defend Itself from Disease (http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0719-02.htm)

I don't know, but this sounds to me like the "Global Warming" issue, except that it pertains to bananas. Just in case the author is right, we all better stock up on banana plants.

damaclese
09-02-2008, 08:10 AM
Mauro thanks for showing that to us vary interesting i have not heard of any one doing this but as i grew up in a farming family I'm not surprised some of my uncles have so pretty un orthodoxes ways of doing curtain farming techniques i always attributed some of thees to just old wifes tales can you explain in more depth what you believe happens between the to different tissues do you think there is a transfer of cells between corms or is it more a function of the two different corms sporting or influencing each other in a hormonal way! Wow iv never have considered this possible dose any one els have any incite on this topic dos this mean that you could graft vieas other bulbs together? I'm simply amazed!

Chironex
09-03-2008, 04:10 AM
Mauro, I watched your videos and must say it is fascinating to me. I really want to see your method do the unexpected and create a half-breed pup. Would we then call it a mutt? Just kidding, but this would be something I will try if it works for you.

bdollarbill
09-04-2008, 08:12 PM
welcome to the insanity.

magicgreen
09-04-2008, 10:55 PM
Hi Mauro!
I liked the videos and the music!!
I loved the pictures of you and the people of the amazon!
I wonder can this really really really work; just cut 2 pieces of banana plant, tie them together , put a bag around them, plant, and really get a different plant?
Well I might just have to try this 1 day myself!
THanks for the idea!
mg

grad85
09-05-2008, 04:18 AM
Hi Mauro,

does this works with every species??[if it works]

harveyc
09-05-2008, 09:57 AM
Mauro,

Maybe you should learn to tissue culture bananas. Your brother could probably easily smuggle in the meristems of many cultivars at once and this would also be eliminate the concerns of importing diseases.

Harvey

bigdog
09-05-2008, 10:19 PM
This is an interesting thread. Let me squash the idea of grafting bananas to come up with new cultivars, however. If it could be done, it would have been done a long time ago, and there would be no need to cross-pollinate and there would be no FHIA program in Honduras. Theoretically, it is possible for a chimera to emerge from one of the corms, but that would be a rarity beyond all rarities. Some cells could even have influence over others. Gene transfer will not occur from the cells of one plant to the other. It is possible that cells would and could move between the graft, and that you could have some intermingling of cells back and forth, but you're not going to come up with a new cultivar out of it. Think about it; if this was possible and this easy, wouldn't there be at least one scientific paper on it? Moreover, if it was possible, I think that there would be hundreds of scientific papers on it, and that we would have thousands of cultivars made by hobbyists and breeders alike. This thread sort of makes me want to try it though, lol. It is an intriguing idea, if there was a chance of it actually working. I haven't even mentioned that monocots are near impossible to graft also, due to there being no (or very little) vascular cambium (and definitely none in bananas!).

Mauro, welcome to the forum.

Chironex
09-05-2008, 11:25 PM
I still want to believe something good can happen from this experiment. So, keep on going Mauro.

damaclese
09-07-2008, 11:45 AM
well if you all reread his post hes stated the fallowing "I called a friend who has a banana plantation in Brazil and he said they do a lot of grafting in the banana trees. " not that I'm making any statements of a definitive nature here but i think we should all keep an opine mind on this after all let me put this in a historical contexts. how many civilizations have come and gone on are planet that have had to one deg or another mathematical and engineering skills that in some ways have rivaled are own. thees have been lost and had to be rediscovered how do we know that this is a new technique from his statement its not! so in that contexts i think its certainly worth a try who knows this could lead to an unprecedented discovery if you consider that more then haft the world depends on Bananas as there primary starch nutrition and in light of the ever shrinking supply of viable land to grow food crops the ability to grow hardier Bananas in more northerly climates dose make good sens to me just my two cents! and i think to answer the statement about why there are no scientific papers on this subject. a researchers gos in to the jungle to do his thing if he doesn't know about a certain technique then why would he even know to ask about it and some things are considered so mundane buy people that they don't even think to talk about it i know theres lots of papers out there identifying and classifying plants but other then the FHIA thing who's really doing research on enchant forming practices of south America. theres a sort of inherent bise by the agro community in thinking that the modern practices are of the most predictive nature when thats provin time and time again that its not really so look at how we have harmed are land tiling and over using of chemicals when all along ancient peoples have used practices that have show there sustainability over thousands of generations

bigdog
09-07-2008, 03:24 PM
You're right. I'm sorry for trying to bring scientific facts into the discussion.

harveyc
09-07-2008, 04:02 PM
Frank, I'm skeptical also, but it's worth taking a look at to see what happens. Many growers have carried out particular traditions for many generations even though there is little objective support for doing so. My grandfather, father, uncles, and brother would never start planting corn in the spring on a Friday. No scientific reason for doing so except that there were probably too many other things going to if they hadn't got started by then and were possibly more lilkely to be rushing and making mistakes. Obviously, a trial with at least a hundred plants of each treatment (plant A, plant B, and grafts of A on B and B on A) would be nice to see to really draw any conclusions.

In some old scientific literature from the 15th century or so there was a discussion that grafting of fruit trees was highly controversial, messing with mother nature, along the lines of how gene splicing is often viewed today. So science has been know to change its views. I'd love to be able to have my skepticism dismissed!

Harvey

Kylie2x
09-07-2008, 05:46 PM
Hey! Welcome! I look forward to seeing you around!!!
Kylie:waving:

bigdog
09-07-2008, 09:46 PM
Frank, I'm skeptical also, but it's worth taking a look at to see what happens. Many growers have carried out particular traditions for many generations even though there is little objective support for doing so. My grandfather, father, uncles, and brother would never start planting corn in the spring on a Friday. No scientific reason for doing so except that there were probably too many other things going to if they hadn't got started by then and were possibly more lilkely to be rushing and making mistakes. Obviously, a trial with at least a hundred plants of each treatment (plant A, plant B, and grafts of A on B and B on A) would be nice to see to really draw any conclusions.

In some old scientific literature from the 15th century or so there was a discussion that grafting of fruit trees was highly controversial, messing with mother nature, along the lines of how gene splicing is often viewed today. So science has been know to change its views. I'd love to be able to have my skepticism dismissed!

Harvey

Don't get me wrong here; I am a firm believer in experimenting also! I experiment all of the time with plants. I'm just saying that there will be no gene transfer from plant-to-plant, and so they won't breed to create a new cultivar in this way. It is feasible that the two corms could grow together, and that there could be cell movement from one corm to the other. It is also theoretically possible for a chimera to result, although the chances are extremely slim. What will most likely happen is that you will have Musa basjoo pups coming up on one side, and Raja Puri pups on the other.

Good luck with it. I hope something good happens!

Chironex
09-07-2008, 10:36 PM
I would love to see a variegated Raja Poo come from this marriage. (Copyright 2008 Chironex)

magicgreen
09-07-2008, 10:39 PM
Frank ,I thought the same thing! Basjoo on one side, and the other corm growing itself all over again.
But then again.....Thinking back to grafts I've done with very minor plants, such as Ficus; its reasonable to think it can be done!
Like....um.....cutting the corm, like in the video; but then maybe seratting each cut side to make a good contact, then tie them together with twine, put the corm in the paper bag for a nice little bed, then plant! How long would this take? Would it start looking all brown like it was dying? Iam curious!
Maybe I just might try this next spring / summer with some of them old sword pups, or the pup or 2 I may dig up wrong this fall! What do you think?

john_ny
09-08-2008, 08:30 AM
I have some vague memry of hearing something about someone doing something like this with flowerbulbs/corms, etc. It's been a long time, and I can't remember, exactly, but I'll try to reconstruct as best I can. Seems they took different color flower bulbs, (I'm guessing now; say red & white) cut them in half, from top to bottom, and fastened the different halves together, in some manner. I don't remember what kind of flowers they were, (Guessing again; possibly tulips or gladiolas) but, supposedly, when the bulbs sprouted, the flowers were either striped, or half and half. Could be true, or could be another urban legend.

bigdog
09-08-2008, 08:48 AM
Regarding azaleas, there are a couple of reasons for not planting them in the same spot as a previously planted one. The first is Phytophthera root rot. It stays in the soil long after the azalea is dead, and planting another one in the same spot would be a death sentence. Second, most people plant their azaleas right up against the foundation. Azaleas love acid soil. The foundation's concrete structure leaches lime into the soil, raising the pH and making the shrub look chlorotic.

Digging in the soil is very therapeutic for me also, Mauro. I completely lose track of time when I'm pulling weeds, lol.

Best,

Frank

Chironex
09-09-2008, 05:09 PM
You're right. I'm sorry for trying to bring scientific facts into the discussion.

I am reminded of a statement made to me by my college Geology professor, when we were arguing the order inversion of two geological periods. Biologists claim it happened in a different order than geologists. He said to me, "We must keep in mind that most science is still theoretical and there are few incontravertable facts." I became silent and humbled by his statement. Doctor Block passed away a few years ago, a good friend, colleague and a brilliant, reverent man. It has stuck with me for 35 years.

damaclese
09-11-2008, 08:04 AM
You're right. I'm sorry for trying to bring scientific facts into the discussion.
bigdog i hope that i dint offend you with my post i read what you had to say. Really it makes good sense to me. I was just pointing out that You Never Know Until you try. iv always been fascinated by grafting and even at 46 it still amazes me that you can get two different kinds of fruit from the same tree or that that bare spot on your prised apple tree can suddenly get a new branch bring it in to a nice sense of summitry i really respect you reading your post i can tell that you are vary learned in regards to the Horticultural practices of growing Bananas so again if i did offend pleas except my sincerest apologias

bigdog
09-11-2008, 12:38 PM
bigdog i hope that i dint offend you with my post i read what you had to say. Really it makes good sense to me. I was just pointing out that You Never Know Until you try. iv always been fascinated by grafting and even at 46 it still amazes me that you can get two different kinds of fruit from the same tree or that that bare spot on your prised apple tree can suddenly get a new branch bring it in to a nice sense of summitry i really respect you reading your post i can tell that you are vary learned in regards to the Horticultural practices of growing Bananas so again if i did offend pleas except my sincerest apologias

Of course I'm not offended! No apologies needed. I just wanted to make a point that this isn't a documented method for hybridizing bananas, and that the chances of it working, according to the current scientific literature, is slim to none. I didn't want everybody who read this thread to think that this was a slam dunk, can't miss, easy method to creat a hybrid banana. I'd love to be proven wrong.

damaclese
09-12-2008, 09:01 AM
Of course I'm not offended! No apologies needed. I just wanted to make a point that this isn't a documented method for hybridizing bananas, and that the chances of it working, according to the current scientific literature, is slim to none. I didn't want everybody who read this thread to think that this was a slam dunk, can't miss, easy method to creat a hybrid banana. I'd love to be proven wrong.that makes more sense to me now thanks for the clarification and i agree 100% with you on that but the kid in me whats to believe it!!!!!! ( common Windy Never Land is just to the north of that star!)LOL

Richard
09-12-2008, 11:57 AM
You're right. I'm sorry for trying to bring scientific facts into the discussion.

Wait!! I think I've found proof!!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7766&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7766)

momoese
09-12-2008, 02:59 PM
I think I'll try this with a Dwarf Red and a Raj Puri. I'm sure stranger things have happened!

harveyc
09-12-2008, 03:38 PM
Good luck, Mitchel. When you're rich and famous after patenting your hardy dwarf red banana, please remember us. At least remember me! :)

momoese
09-12-2008, 03:55 PM
Good luck, Mitchel. When you're rich and famous after patenting your hardy dwarf red banana, please remember us. At least remember me! :)

Sure thing, and while I'm thinking about it, I'm going to go remove an H.A. pup for you right now!

harveyc
09-12-2008, 04:20 PM
:woohoonaner:

Thanks, Mitchel! :)

By the way, I was thinking of you today as I was posting photos. I did fix links to those other photos I posted a while back also.

momoese
09-12-2008, 04:39 PM
Hey look what I found! I'll mail it tomorrow. :2722:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13234&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13234)

harveyc
09-12-2008, 06:59 PM
Thanks! :D

Kylie2x
09-13-2008, 06:23 PM
Hey Welcome!!! I look forward to seeing you around!!!
Kylie

Richard
09-13-2008, 06:43 PM
Welcome!

Richard
09-13-2008, 06:44 PM
Welcome!

Chironex
09-13-2008, 07:40 PM
Mauro, there is no need to hide in a cave! I salute you for bringing this subject to everyone's attention. Trial and error is the fuel that leads to new discoveries. In fact, when I get some extra pups of something, I will do it here, too. As I mentioned in a message to you, I have some ideas I want to try with your experiment.
Your humility seems to be something that came from a graft between Brazil and Japan. I find this to be a quality that I need to practice myself. I enjoy reading your posts and hope that you will not stop. This site is for banana enthusiasts around the world and there is no question about your enthusiasm. Whether it be for experimentation, approval or simple appreciation of bananas, we are all here because of our interest in bananas. Keep on doing what you wish, I will read every word.

mskitty38583
09-13-2008, 08:46 PM
lol! ha ha were all nuts to grow nanas in places that they :"arent" suppossed to grow in. dont hide in no cave, come out and stay awhile. newton didnt have any concrete evidence about gravity and hes really qouted now. lol!

Richard
09-14-2008, 12:41 AM
lol! ha ha were all nuts to grow nanas in places that they :"arent" suppossed to grow in. dont hide in no cave, come out and stay awhile. newton didnt have any concrete evidence about gravity and hes really qouted now. lol!

Newton's mathematical model of gravity, which was part of his potential theory or "force at a distance" is not only remarkable, but of tremendous practical use in engineering. However, his concept of the physical nature of gravity was incorrect. Not that modern observers are doing any better: we know more about what it isn't than what it is. :ha:

damaclese
09-14-2008, 08:45 AM
Hi, damaclese !
Why do people go to Las Vegas? To try their luck, right ? Even knowing that you can't beat a machine, you will still try. And as a result come home dead broke. Well, I've decided to try my luck with this very, very slim chance. Maybe one in a million. To graft a banana pup. I'm really embarassed that I saw a little smoke and thought that it was a big fire. But, still, something inside of me tells me not to get disheartened. Is my experiment a folk tale? I've asked myself a thousand times. To tell you the truth I don't know. But I'll sure find out, by next spring. God willing. I'm sorry to be such a big mouth, I should have done my experiment in silence...
Here is some words that keep me on my track:
"Those who speak know nothing;
Those who know are silent."
These words, I'm told,
Were spoken by Lao-tzu.
If we are to believe that Lao-tzu
Was himself one who knew,
How is it that he wrote a book
Of five thousand words?
This is just an excuse for my big mouth. Thank you for supporting my theory, although there is so slim a chance. Bye, for now let me hide in my cave until I get more concrete proof of my experiment.
Mauro don't be embarrass i shoot my mouth off all the time. The only difference is people often cant tell i am being mouthy as they can't really read what I'm wright LOL. the hole point of this blog as i see it is to be ones self and to have fun sharing and exploring. Its a kind of frontier for Bananas and other related Horticultural stuff. the only thing i ask of any one on here is Live and let Live and Play nice. id rather hear whats on some ones mind then have them not share it because if you don't act your self then theres no way to really get to know the real you. In the End as i see it the only reason we are here on this plane of existents is to have relationships with each. in that is the sum of what we are and how we learn by interacting. i hope that wasn't to metaphysical for every one LOL.
so no mater what be your self and let the chips fall were they may People will get over it or not but thats there choice. i don't think any one has had a problem with your assertions to date i think its all just been a typical scientific debate. and theirs the Fun don't you think!?

Chironex
09-14-2008, 11:34 PM
I have only begun studying the teachings of Lao-tzu and Taoism in general. It is soothing and helps me find tranquility in this crazy world.

Here is something that explains the Yin and Yang of Taoist thought as it applies to your banana grafting experiment:


http://www.1000ventures.com/design_elements/selfmade/ten3design_pic_happiness-tao.png (http://ten3design.com/happiness.aspx)
If you can find true contentment, it will last forever.
Embrace simplicity. Put others first. Desire little.
No disaster is worse than being discontented.

Chironex
09-19-2008, 03:09 AM
Mauro, it's good to see you again. I would like to see the photos of your new plant. A cave is a nice place to reflect with ones thoughts, but not much grows there...
Glad you are back with us.

chong
10-26-2008, 02:10 AM
(The following post was entered by Mauro under a new thread today and was a little confusing because it was under the Introductions thread and he had other posts that were of the same subject under separate threads. What I wanted to do was move the post to the Bananas Discussions Forum but instead I clicked the Merge Posts selection button. My apologies. - Chong)
Today at 10:52 PM
Dear friends and fellow plant growers of the Banana Org. Forum. After weeks and months of meditation in my cave, here, in the Far East I have decided to come back to the forum and expose my mystical experiments, theories and my Taoist phisophy. My theme is yet the same: Grafting Banana Specimens.
First of all, Greetings to everyone !
"Man follows the ways of the Earth,
The Earth follows the ways of Heaven,
Heaven follows the ways of Tao,
Tao follows its own ways."
That means that I will always follow my own way of grafting banana specimens no matter the hardships or contradictory point of views of my fellow botanists through out the world. I would like to repeat the words of the 3 Japanese Nobel Prize winners Mr. Nambu Youichi, Mr. Kobayashi Makoto and Mr. Masukawa Toshihide: "The most important thing to achieve your goal and success is the spirit of never quitting, no matter how difficult your experiment may be!" I intend to follow their teachings and never quit my grafting experiment until I get a new banana cultivar through grafting which still is considered impossible by many botanists and experts in biotechnology. Especially those who dedicate themselves to the tissue culture of the banana plant. Up to now, through my way of grafting banana shoots of different variety I have succeeded only in getting variegated species. I have not yet achieved my goal of getting a new banana cultivar of unchangeable identity. In the former threads I have said that I would not stop bugging the Brazilian Government Controlled Research Centers about my question. Is there really a method of grafting banana plants by the native Brazilians which we yet do not know of? Do the Brazilian farmers have an ancient stone age, simple method of grafting bananas, or not? Here is the second reply of my questions:
" Não existe nada a respeito de enxerto nos manuais técnicos sobre
bananeira. A prática que está referindo, não é enxerto e sim desbaste. A
retirada de brotos evitando a formação de touceira é muito importante,
pois evita competição entre plantas e aumenta o tamanho do cacho da
planta que fica. Existem outras explicações para obtenção de cachos
grandes no Vale da Ribeira. A primeira é que lá se cultiva banana
Nanicão ou Grande Naine que produzem cachos grandes. A segunda é que, em
algumas propriedades faz-se uma boa adubação e menejo da cultura, o que
ajuda a produzir bons cachos." Sorry again, it is in Portuguese not English, but here is a simple translation of the original:
In the Technical Manuals of Propagation Bananas, there is no information about this practice. The practice you have inquired about is called rough-hew. We leave few suckers to avoid grouth competition among them, which is very important, so the banana plants can produce larger bunches of bananas. There are other methods to obtain larger bunches of bananas in the Ribeira Valley, Southern region of Brazil. One of them is that they grow the Nanicao or the Grand Naine cultivar. The other pratice is that they fertilize the soil properly and apply the adequate management for the banana plantation to obtain good and bigger bunches.
I am not yet satisfied with the answers I've got, but I think it is time to stop bugging the Rearch Centers of Brazil. I do not want to annoy them anymore. That, only, I shall quit! But I will still continue my naive experiments for my own satisfaction.
I have decided to return to the forum today and open my big mouth, because I am very happy. I am not afraid of the coming cold winter and my banana specimens aren't either. I checked my plants and saw new suckers coming out of the ground. They are healthy and beautiful. That means that I don't have to wait for the spring to come like a pregnant woman anymore. My beautiful pups were already born, what shall I call them Chironex? Pups, Mutts or Mongrels? Half-breed banana pups?...
I'd like to speak a little about my philosophy: My Tao Te Ching, "The Way of Life":
"Everyone says that my way of life is the way of a simpleton.
Being largely the way of a simpleton is what makes it worth while....
These possessions of a simpleton being the three I choose
And cherish:
To care,
To be fair,
To be humble.
When a man cares he is unafraid,
When he is fair he leaves enough for others,
When he is humble he can grow.
...See how fine the palaces
And see how poor the farms,
How bare the pesants granaries
While gentry wear embroideries
Hiding sharpened arms.
And the more they have the more they seize,
How can there be such men as these
Who never hunger, never thirst,
Yet eat and drink until they burst!
By Lao-tzu, harmony with nature, posted by Mauro Gibo.
I'm sorry, but I have to leave now. My banana babies wait for me. Thank you for taking your precious time to read my thread. Here is an ancient saying from the fareast to my friends of the forum:
Above all, I hope I don't buy the hate of the American ladies, especially the ladies of the forum.
Best things in life: Live in an American house, eat Chinese food and have a Japanese lady as a wife.
Worst things in life: Live in a Japanese house, eat British food and have an American wife.
Please forgive this simpleton with a big big mouth.
Bye for now. Once again, forgive me.


Hello Mauro,
Glad to hear back from you. I combined your posts regarding your experiments into this thread so that your posts will be more easily identified. I must apologize that all your post were merged, although they are all there.

Chong

Chironex
10-26-2008, 02:29 PM
My good friend and colleague Mauro, I always learn from your posts. A lesson in humility is time well spent. I am working on all 3 things best in life. Although, there may be some exceptions, as you know.

Richard
10-26-2008, 11:11 PM
Mauro,

It would be very helpful to all readers if you would dig up your plant and identify which parts of the corm your new pups are propagating from.

Thanks!

chong
10-26-2008, 11:22 PM
Mauro,

It would be very helpful to all readers if you would dig up your plant and identify which parts of the corm your new pups are propagating from.

Thanks!

Hello again Mauro-san,
Even a picture would be very helpful for us on the outside.

Arigato!

Chong

damaclese
10-27-2008, 08:59 AM
Dear Mauro,
Its so good to hear from you! a delight always thanks for sharing. could we have some pictures of those banana grafts? It would be ever so helpful in the learning process. Funny thing i was just thinking not more then two days ago as to what had happened to you. I was thinking that perhaps we had frightened you away with are interrogations regarding your grafting experiments. Keep posting i find your threads highly interesting. Its nice to have the varied cultural aspects of the different people that post here on the ORG. Chill or be chilled! Paulie

Mauro Gibo
10-28-2008, 11:45 PM
Dear Mauro,
Its so good to hear from you! a delight always thanks for sharing. could we have some pictures of those banana grafts? It would be ever so helpful in the learning process. Funny thing i was just thinking not more then two days ago as to what had happened to you. I was thinking that perhaps we had frightened you away with are interrogations regarding your grafting experiments. Keep posting i find your threads highly interesting. Its nice to have the varied cultural aspects of the different people that post here on the ORG. Chill or be chilled! PaulieHi, Paulie!
Sometimes, I chill people, sometimes I get chilled. After all we are humans. Sometimes, I am over confident. Sometimes, I get scared. When I am sure of myself I open my big mouth. When I get scared I hide in my cave and meditate for weeks, until the dark cloud is gone. By the way, I'm not that good with the computer and I don't know how to up load pictures. I took some pictures of my bananas and the Japanese persimmon and I'd like to post them, but I don't know how. Could you teach me? Please? Mauro.

harveyc
10-29-2008, 11:24 AM
Mauro, don't get too chilled...it can be harmful to your bananas! ;)

Edit: after making my post originally, I PM'd Jarred and he made his post a "sticky" and edited it to include a video, so my original reply might be confusing. So, instead....

Just go see the sticky thread at http://www.bananas.org/f5/how-post-images-your-threads-97.html :D

Mauro Gibo
10-29-2008, 06:58 PM
Hello again Mauro-san,
Even a picture would be very helpful for us on the outside.

Arigato!

ChongChong, my friend and teacher, thank you for organizing my threads, I'm kinda messy. Here in Japan we have the "5 S".
Seiri: Organize, meaning putting or throwing away the tools you don't use.
Seiton: Arrange, meaning putting in order the tools you use often. So you can find it anytime you need it.
Seiketsu: Clean, meaning keep it always clean and shiny. No oil or dirt.
Seiso: Clean, clean it up by brushing, wiping, etc.
****suke: Discipline, meaning keep all the rules, and your uniform tidy.
The 5 S stated above are the basic rules of any Japanese company or home.
But I, being of Italian blood lack these virtues. I'm always mixed up. Not well organized. Put until tomorrow what you can do today! Why do we have "manana", tomorrow? Let's do it manana! That's why Brazil is only 8 years younger than the U.S., but we are far, far, behind. Let's enjoy life today and work manana! With the Japanese it is different, they are workaholic, they rest only after the're dead. If you give a 3-days-vacation to a Japanese, he gets desperate, he doesn't know what to do with it. Japan is about the size of France. 70% of the land in France is arable. In Japan only 15% of the land is arable. Most of the country is mountainous and rocky, of volcanic nature. But production is very high, especially in my area here in Mie Prefecture. Well, what I really want to do now, is to learn how to post pictures in the forum, I'm waiting for my son to come to my house and teach me, I'm kinda uneducated about computers. I'm a slow learner that's why it took me more than 40 years lo learn about the Japanese culture. Bye, for now, and always thank you for helping me. Gracias.

Mason
05-22-2009, 10:19 PM
There has been a lot of debate about if it is possible to graft bananas. If there is some actual proof for either side, could someone please post it.

chong
05-23-2009, 06:15 AM
There has been a lot of debate about if it is possible to graft bananas. If there is some actual proof for either side, could someone please post it.

I don't know if there's a way to answer your question. Unfortunately, in this case, at what level do you say that one side or the other is right? Academia might tell you that it's impossible, but people like Mauro say that they've seen indigenous people in Brazil may have been doing it for centuries. From my point of view, I believe that, strictly speaking, there both truths and falsehoods from both sides. The problem is proving facts and to what degree. It would be like answering the question of "If a tree in the forest falls down, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" If you answer, "Yes", or "No", would that be enough? How do you go about proving either one? The truth is that it does, because you can prove it by comparing and reasoning. But under the parameter, "and no one is there to hear it", proving it to be a fact, or non-fact, is impossible. (To differentiate: fact is experienced and/or observed; truth implies revelation which is accepted by reasoning or faith.)

So then, whether grafting bananas is possible or not, boils down to whether you can believe it, or experience it. Having said that, I believe that it is possible.

Mason
05-23-2009, 12:30 PM
I don't know if there's a way to answer your question. Unfortunately, in this case, at what level do you say that one side or the other is right? Academia might tell you that it's impossible, but people like Mauro say that they've seen indigenous people in Brazil may have been doing it for centuries. From my point of view, I believe that, strictly speaking, there both truths and falsehoods from both sides. The problem is proving facts and to what degree. It would be like answering the question of "If a tree in the forest falls down, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" If you answer, "Yes", or "No", would that be enough? How do you go about proving either one? The truth is that it does, because you can prove it by comparing and reasoning. But under the parameter, "and no one is there to hear it", proving it to be a fact, or non-fact, is impossible. (To differentiate: fact is experienced and/or observed; truth implies revelation which is accepted by reasoning or faith.)

So then, whether grafting bananas is possible or not, boils down to whether you can believe it, or experience it. Having said that, I believe that it is possible.

Well, it wouldn't be hard to prove. If you try it and it works, then it's true, if it doesn't work, it is not true. Personally, I have never heard of anyone doing this and I see nothing about on the internet.

frog7994
05-23-2009, 05:08 PM
well how are the diffrent types produced if not from grafting?

chong
05-23-2009, 05:32 PM
Well, it wouldn't be hard to prove. If you try it and it works, then it's true, if it doesn't work, it is not true. Personally, I have never heard of anyone doing this and I see nothing about on the internet.

That's exactly what I mean. Just because you have not personally observed or experienced it, means that it's not a fact. At least to you. The fact is that there are several, maybe up to a dozen, videos on the subject on Youtube, and you have not seen them, makes it untrue for you, as well. (According to my distinction between fact and truth.) Some of us who have seen the video, and the witness by Mauro, one of our members in this forum, leads us to believe that this is true. Again, that doesn't mean that it is fact until we ourselves personally observe it.

Chironex
05-23-2009, 06:17 PM
If there is one thing that I have learned in my pursuit of science it is that there are no absolute facts. Predictable outcomes are sometimes skewed by the slightest variables and "experimental error".
It seems that we always want to be correct or right about something, yet variations and aberrations occur. What one believes or does not believe is immaterial to all possible outcomes. Just when you feel that you have a grasp on mother nature, she throws us a curveball. The only certainty in science is that nothing is 100% certain.

Mauro Gibo
05-23-2009, 06:51 PM
There has been a lot of debate about if it is possible to graft bananas. If there is some actual proof for either side, could someone please post it.Hello, everyone ! This the notorious Mauro Gibo again hitting the same key ! Bananas trees can be grafted ! Here is a link for you interested in the subject: CARE - Virtual Field Trip - Bolivia - Journal Entries - Day 4 (http://www.care.org/vft/bolivia/day4.asp)
please search for it in the google.
A also visited the birth place of Matsuo Basho, the father of the Japanese Banana, Musa Basjoo, here in Japan. Please check my videos Matsuo Basho's Birth Place from I~IV:
mauro-gibo videos on Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/search/mauro-gibo)
I am very sorry for the big confusion I have made. But I will always follow my own heart even if I am at the final courtain. Thank you for your precious time.
Yours Sincerely,
Mauro Gibo.

chong
05-23-2009, 07:50 PM
If there is one thing that I have learned in my pursuit of science it is that there are no absolute facts. Predictable outcomes are sometimes skewed by the slightest variables and "experimental error".
It seems that we always want to be correct or right about something, yet variations and aberrations occur. What one believes or does not believe is immaterial to all possible outcomes. Just when you feel that you have a grasp on mother nature, she throws us a curveball. The only certainty in science is that nothing is 100% certain.

Now, isn't that the truth?!!!

Lagniappe
11-29-2009, 10:25 PM
It's so odd that this thread was linked back to today. I found an article early this morning and wanted to look this thread up to post my reply, but got too busy.
In an article concerning plant parasites: "Plants often use small RNA molecules as messengers between different parts of [the plant]. Findings have shown that RNA can travel from a graft into the rest of the plant, affecting leaf shape, and helping the parasite synchronize it's life cycle with that of the host plant.
Is this relevant? Could this be what's going on in these grafts?

Mauro Gibo
11-30-2009, 12:26 AM
:waving:It's so odd that this thread was linked back to today. I found an article early this morning and wanted to look this thread up to post my reply, but got too busy.
In an article concerning plant parasites: "Plants often use small RNA molecules as messengers between different parts of [the plant]. Findings have shown that RNA can travel from a graft into the rest of the plant, affecting leaf shape, and helping the parasite synchronize it's life cycle with that of the host plant.
Is this relevant? Could this be what's going on in these grafts? First of all, Lagniappe, thank you for your comment on the subject.
This is no politics, this is philosophy. There are three things I choose and cherish:
To care! If i care I have no fear.
To be fair! If am fair, I will not be selfish.
To be humble! If I'm humble I know I will grow.
My experiment is very simple. Most people think I am stupid in trying to prove something impossible. But is it really impossible? How sure can we be?
There are so many things in nature that we don't know yet. Most young people think they have a lot of knowlege about the skill of grafting, which I agree. But they have forgotten one thing. Wisdom and knowlege are two different things. I've been working with plants for many decades. I know every plant has a different behavior. for example you can't graft a Japanese Cherry tree. The stock will not send water to the scion. The scion without water will dry out and die. So you have to propagate such trees in a different way.
I have grafted many banana cultivars and I am waiting for the results. I know it will take time. One thing I can tell you I have nothing to lose. I already have one foot in the tomb. The vultures are flying over my head but I intend to disappoint them. I have only one aim and that is to prove that banana pups can be grafted successfuly. Anyway, thank your for your precious information.
Best Regards,
Mauro Gibo.

Mauro Gibo
11-30-2009, 12:41 AM
It's so odd that this thread was linked back to today. I found an article early this morning and wanted to look this thread up to post my reply, but got too busy.
In an article concerning plant parasites: "Plants often use small RNA molecules as messengers between different parts of [the plant]. Findings have shown that RNA can travel from a graft into the rest of the plant, affecting leaf shape, and helping the parasite synchronize it's life cycle with that of the host plant.
Is this relevant? Could this be what's going on in these grafts?
These are my grafted banana plants:
YouTube - Mauro's Banana Farm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6wIFqb9B_s)
I love my banana plants and hope you all will love them too.
Bye.
Mauro.

damaclese
11-30-2009, 10:07 AM
this RNA aspect explains the mechanisms thank you for sharing your findings it makes perfect sense to me

Gabe15
11-30-2009, 05:03 PM
It's so odd that this thread was linked back to today. I found an article early this morning and wanted to look this thread up to post my reply, but got too busy.
In an article concerning plant parasites: "Plants often use small RNA molecules as messengers between different parts of [the plant]. Findings have shown that RNA can travel from a graft into the rest of the plant, affecting leaf shape, and helping the parasite synchronize it's life cycle with that of the host plant.
Is this relevant? Could this be what's going on in these grafts?

First, this assumes that the plants can be successfully and viably grafted together, since we are talking about bananas, I still have not seen any convincing evidence that any banana grafting has actually taken place. Attempting to graft is much different from actually producing a graft.

Second, one must be very careful about applying information from one study to something completely different, this goes for anything (but especially so with these intricate and poorly understood biological systems in this case). To me, reading that pathogenic messenger RNA can travel from graft to scion of a unknown plant species and have some kind of an affect means nothing in regards to grafting bananas together to create somatic hybrids. They are in different realms and there is nothing to correlate them. Even if grafting bananas can be done physiologically, there still is no evidence that one portion could affect another in bananas, mainly since I don't think anyone has ever actually grafted bananas successfully to even begin the tests.

For me and most people I have talked to about this subject, there is a critical lack of evidence. I don't mean to offend anyone here (and Mauro, I know you are reading this, please don't think I'm trying to tear you down, I'm just approaching this curious case the same way as I do anything in my life), I am as curious as anyone about if this works or not in some way. Im not trying to prove banana grafting as possible or impossible, but whichever way it is, there needs to be evidence to back it up. So far, I have an immense amount of evidence that it does not work, and no evidence that it does.

The goal of science is not to prove that something can be done, it is to test if something can be done.

Lagniappe
11-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Thanks , Gabe.
I'll admit that it's reaching, but got a little excited when I read about this.
I did think the RNA communication was part of the plant, and not the parasite, and thought that it was this mechanism that was affecting the leaf changes from the grafted sections to other parts of the plant.

Mauro Gibo
12-01-2009, 12:01 AM
First, this assumes that the plants can be successfully and viably grafted together, since we are talking about bananas, I still have not seen any convincing evidence that any banana grafting has actually taken place. Attempting to graft is much different from actually producing a graft.

Second, one must be very careful about applying information from one study to something completely different, this goes for anything (but especially so with these intricate and poorly understood biological systems in this case). To me, reading that pathogenic messenger RNA can travel from graft to scion of a unknown plant species and have some kind of an affect means nothing in regards to grafting bananas together to create somatic hybrids. They are in different realms and there is nothing to correlate them. Even if grafting bananas can be done physiologically, there still is no evidence that one portion could affect another in bananas, mainly since I don't think anyone has ever actually grafted bananas successfully to even begin the tests.

For me and most people I have talked to about this subject, there is a critical lack of evidence. I don't mean to offend anyone here (and Mauro, I know you are reading this, please don't think I'm trying to tear you down, I'm just approaching this curious case the same way as I do anything in my life), I am as curious as anyone about if this works or not in some way. Im not trying to prove banana grafting as possible or impossible, but whichever way it is, there needs to be evidence to back it up. So far, I have an immense amount of evidence that it does not work, and no evidence that it does.

The goal of science is not to prove that something can be done, it is to test if something can be done.Hi, Gabe, Nice to meet you. I knew you would be the last one to speak or give your point of view. You are young and have your whole future ahead of you. You are very careful because wrong words could hurt your career. With me things are different, I'm an old man. I've been to hell and back many times, I also died many times. And the there is one thing I'm not afraid of, that is: I am not afraid to make mistakes, because we learn from our mistakes. Maybe, the first mistake I did was to call the union of two different kind of bananas, grafting. Grafting is really something different. At the time I didn't find a proper word to name my unusual experiment. Even today, I still don't have a matching word for it. But for me it doen't really matter. I firmly believe that it is my challenging spirit that really matters. When I went to college I thought my teachers where great and that they were genius. Now, I know that they were just living encyclopedias passing on informations they had acquired in the past. Another thing I found out is that I am more powerful than a computer. Why?
Because I can think and the computer can't. I work as a translator for a large Japanese Corporation which has many factories around the world and translantion is a must. I wrote a sentence in Japanese to be translated into English. the sentence was: When you notice anything wrong with the product tell your superior immeditely. The computer translated: When the handicapped erupts, tell your superior at once. See what I mean? Now, let's go back to my experiment. I know that about 80 countries of temperate climates near the equator produce bananas. If by any chance I get a cold hardy banana variety, I'm sure going to change the banana belt.
I appreciate your comment. One more sore for a lepper won't make any difference. I will keep going one, because I know I am in the right track.
Thanks.
P.S. Don't pay attention to this old mule.
Bye.
Mauro Gibo

harveyc
12-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Mauro, you don't look that much older than me in your videos. I thought Chong was the old man around here! :ha:

Mauro Gibo
12-01-2009, 12:22 AM
Mauro, you don't look that much older than me in your videos. I thought Chong was the old man around here! :ha: Thanks, Harveyc, but I raised 7 children and have 18 grand-children. My youngest is already over 30. I feel like I am a living fossil.
Best Regards,
Wish you the Best.
Mauro.

chong
12-01-2009, 03:31 AM
And the there is one thing I'm not afraid of, that is: I am not afraid to make mistakes, because we learn from our mistakes. Maybe, the first mistake I did was to call the union of two different kind of bananas, grafting. Grafting is really something different. At the time I didn't find a proper word to name my unusual experiment. Even today, I still don't have a matching word for it. But for me it doesn't really matter. I firmly believe that it is my challenging spirit that really matters. When I went to college I thought my teachers where great and that they were genius. Now, I know that they were just living encyclopedias passing on informations they had acquired in the past. Another thing I found out is that I am more powerful than a computer. Why?
Because I can think and the computer can't. I work as a translator for a large Japanese Corporation which has many factories around the world and translantion is a must. I wrote a sentence in Japanese to be translated into English. the sentence was: When you notice anything wrong with the product tell your superior immediately. The computer translated: When the handicapped erupts, tell your superior at once. See what I mean? Now, let's go back to my experiment. I know that about 80 countries of temperate climates near the equator produce bananas. If by any chance I get a cold hardy banana variety, I'm sure going to change the banana belt.
I appreciate your comment. One more sore for a leper won't make any difference. I will keep going one, because I know I am in the right track.
Thanks.
P.S. Don't pay attention to this old mule.
Bye.
Mauro Gibo

Mauro-san,
Trying to prove to yourself something that you have learned from what other cultures have done should be gratifying. Sharing them with others is an act of kindness. So, do not worry about semantics or technicalities. With your experiments, the only mistake you will make is if you don't try. Already it appears that you have succeeded in combining halves of two different varieties of banana and have grown them to the point that they are one plant and are producing pups. In a few months time, you will find out if the fruit they will produce will be like the one or the other variety, or as luck would have it, celebrate the fact that it is a combination of the two!!! I applaud your determination, and look forward to your announcement that the fruit is a hybrid and would be honored to be one of the first to congratulate you on your success! So, please keep us posted.

Mauro, you don't look that much older than me in your videos. I thought Chong was the old man around here! :ha:
You know that I would be reading this, and I humbly thank you for the compliment.

So, Mauro-san, if you are also reading this, you should listen to the wise old man.

Chong

Mauro Gibo
12-01-2009, 08:01 AM
Mauro-san,
Trying to prove to yourself something that you have learned from what other cultures have done should be gratifying. Sharing them with others is an act of kindness. So, do not worry about semantics or technicalities. With your experiments, the only mistake you will make is if you don't try. Already it appears that you have succeeded in combining halves of two different varieties of banana and have grown them to the point that they are one plant and are producing pups. In a few months time, you will find out if the fruit they will produce will be like the one or the other variety, or as luck would have it, celebrate the fact that it is a combination of the two!!! I applaud your determination, and look forward to your announcement that the fruit is a hybrid and would be honored to be one of the first to congratulate you on your success! So, please keep us posted.


You know that I would be reading this, and I humbly thank you for the compliment.

So, Mauro-san, if you are also reading this, you should listen to the wise old man.

Chong Mr. Chong, it's a pleasure to hear from you. I'm trying to be tough and stay away from you guys, but I can't. We share the same ideals, we love and care for tropical plants. To grow bananas in this cold country is my passion. The Japanese love Bonsai, to tell you the truth I don't care much about Bonsai, because I know a lot of people who have bonsais centuries old. I could never compete with them. But with banana plants is another thing. The Japanese do not have experimented with banana plants yet. So here I am, doing my thing in my own way, like I did in the 60's and 70's. The wrinkles in my face are my annual rings. Mr. Chong I know you are wise and I respect you. It's part of our culture here in Japan to respect the older people because we know they are wise. Your words make me feel good. It won't be long now. My bananas are growing well just like I expected.
Pretty soon I will have enough proof of my success. Thank you very much for standing by me. I promise I will not disappoint you. The Japanese taught me to be persistent. I always mean what I say. I will be in touch.
Once again thank you very much.
Much Obliged. Muito Obrigado.
Mauro Gibo

damaclese
12-01-2009, 08:46 AM
Its good to hear from you Mauro! how is Japan thees days? Keep you feet warm and drink tea. I'm still vary excited about your experiment hopping it is the way but only time will tell as you say. do you celebrate Christmas if so have a good one
Paulo

Mauro Gibo
12-03-2009, 03:22 AM
Its good to hear from you Mauro! how is Japan thees days? Keep you feet warm and drink tea. I'm still vary excited about your experiment hopping it is the way but only time will tell as you say. do you celebrate Christmas if so have a good one
Paulo Hi Paulo! It's really nice to hear from you. I sure drink a lot of tea. Especially after I got diabetes, my mouth is always dry. My eye sight is not very good either, but that doesn't stop me from grafting banana pups.
The bananas I've grafted are already very tall and they have many baby pups. There is one big problem, though. The winter has come. Everyday it gets colder and colder. The leaves of my bananas are turning yellow. This coming year is very important to me. It's the year which will decide my fate.
Loser or Winner! If my crossbred bananas survive the winter and bloom in the spring I will be a champion. If they die I will be just a big joker and people will laugh at me. Let's sit and wait: Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be.
YouTube - JOSE FELICIANO - "QUE SERA" ( Spanish Version ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNXeAceK7Yg)
Thank you for writing to me. I wish you a Merry Christmas! And God Bless you!
Bye, Mauro Gibo

harveyc
12-03-2009, 10:30 AM
Mauro, maybe you should grow prickly pear instead (also). More hardy to the cold and some studies show they help folks with diabetes.

frog7994
12-03-2009, 03:31 PM
can some please explain in more detail how the grafting is done or performed?

Mauro Gibo
12-03-2009, 04:16 PM
can some please explain in more detail how the grafting is done or performed? First you have to make a choice: Anthony Whyte or Mauro Gibo? Which side are you on?
Grafting bananas - 22 March 2003 - New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17723874.500-grafting-bananas.html)

"If successful, the two cut surfaces must be held permanently together by tying or taping, which in all likelihood would further increase the chance of disease."

For me a guy who says "If" lacks confidence.

So, I grafted my bananas.
YouTube - Grafting mature banana specimens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NlcBw7AxAY)
P.S. If you have a good laugh I won't mind.
Best Regards,
Mauro Gibo

frog7994
12-03-2009, 05:58 PM
well I'm not 100% on what belive I just saw but it looked very interesting. I would like to hear or read more on it. I hope what is being done in the video is really a art( i mean no disrespect) and will look for future post. And thanks for the info.

chong
12-03-2009, 06:05 PM
can some please explain in more detail how the grafting is done or performed?

Just to clarify, please note that the term "grafting" as used in this thread is not the same as conventional grafting, where you might have a rootstock to which one or several different varieties of scions are grafted onto in order to have different varieties of trees or plant. In this case, both scion and rootstock of two different varieties are halved and two different halves are fused together to form a "graft" and form a single pseudostem.

The following videos posted by Mauro shows how they do it in Japan. The videos used to be linked in this thread, but somehow I can't find them. I got these from my saved files.

YouTube - Grafting mature banana specimens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NlcBw7AxAY&feature=related)

YouTube - The Growth of My Grafted Banana Seedlings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzIsvSq2Lo&feature=related)

YouTube - Grafting Mature Banana Seedlings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJIYpxsVmVk&feature=related)

YouTube - Grafting Banana Trees (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNXbbIknQb8&feature=fvw)

YouTube - Grafting Bananas Stage 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1-mcT0_usY&feature=related)

YouTube - Corm-grafted bananas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbLyiemjw8)

the flying dutchman
12-03-2009, 07:42 PM
I don't believe in it. At least, not in the fact that you can create a new
cultivar that way. Maybe it can change the plants characteristics but that
will only apply to the "grafted" plant.
It's well known that plants influence each other, even without being grafted. For example, cuttings of Buxus grow much better when they are
planted next to each other then in separate pots. Why? No one knows.
They just grow better.
If grafting would create new cultivars we had thousands of new cultivars
from many species of plants, even potatoes.
So, changing the growth characteristics is quite something else then creating a new cultivar.

My 2 cents.

Mauro Gibo
12-04-2009, 01:03 AM
well I'm not 100% on what belive I just saw but it looked very interesting. I would like to hear or read more on it. I hope what is being done in the video is really a art( i mean no disrespect) and will look for future post. And thanks for the info. Thank you for your comment frog 7994. I went to my orchar and made a video of my grown bananas. Let's see if they can survive the harsh winter.
YouTube - Grafted Mature Crossbred Bananas_0001.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDh8dvEC4ug)
This video is new.
Best Regards,
Mauro Gibo.

harveyc
12-04-2009, 01:08 AM
Hello Mauro - I don't recall you saying how cold you get there. Have you had much frost yet? How low do your temperatures reach in the winter?

Best wishes,

Harvey

momoese
12-04-2009, 01:14 AM
I'm curious to know if you have dug up any of your "grafts" to see what the union looks like after they have grown some.

Mauro Gibo
12-04-2009, 04:09 AM
Hello Mauro - I don't recall you saying how cold you get there. Have you had much frost yet? How low do your temperatures reach in the winter?

Best wishes,

Harvey Hi, harveyc. The weatherman said we will have frost this coming week. When it snows the temperature reaches about 0 degree centigrade. On February it gets to be pretty cold because we have a wind current that comes from Siberia where it sometimes reaches 72 degrees below zero centigrades. It's a freezing wind. To tell you the truth I am amazed at the Musa Basjoo. It grows wild around here and the cold doesn't hurt it very much. If you see its growth around here you would not call it a tropical plant.
The Japanese brought the Musa Basjoo from China about 400 to 500 years ago, and I think it found a way to hibernate during the winter. It becomes dormant but doesn't die and in the early spring it starts growing again. It grows very tall in the summer. Even in Brazil I haven't seen such a tall banana tree.
It's a little early but I wish you a Merry Christmas.
Bye.
Mauro

harveyc
12-04-2009, 04:23 AM
WOW, -72C!!!

Thanks, Happy Advent and Merry Christmas to you!

Harvey

Mauro Gibo
12-04-2009, 04:35 AM
I'm curious to know if you have dug up any of your "grafts" to see what the union looks like after they have grown some. I didn't dig any of my grafts yet. I really don't know what happens to the union. But I know the difference between the pups when they come out of the ground. I have some tricks, let's say a knowhow that I have not shared with you all. The scientists that work for large fruit companies in Latin America want to know about it. But I din't tell them. I've been experimenting for about 5 years. I acquired a lot of knowlege about the behavior of the banana plants during these past years. It's like going to college for 5 years, so I am saving the pleasure of harvesting fresh grafted bananas for myself. After I accomplish my goal I will share it with you all.
Thank you for your interest and enthusiasm.
I wish you a Merry Christmas.
Bye. Mauro.

jeffreyp
12-04-2009, 04:53 AM
I was thinking perhaps some benefit could be obtained from grafting onto a basjoo corm that would come from the sap. I know that in citrus Trifoliate rootstock affects the potential size of the plant and increases hardiness.

Mauro Gibo
12-04-2009, 05:14 AM
I was thinking perhaps some benefit could be obtained from grafting onto a basjoo corm that would come from the sap. I know that in citrus Trifoliate rootstock affects the potential size of the plant and increases hardiness. In the beginning I could tell if it was a musa basjoo pup or a raja puri pup, but as they grew taller they started changing their characteristics. The collor of the trunk started changing, after a while I couldn't tell which one was which. If you watch my new video, you will notice that it is hard to tell what variety it is.
It looks to be a musa basjoo but it isn't. It looks to be a raja puri, but it looks different. So I came to the conclusion that they are half breeds. I think they exchanged some kind of cells during their growth. I am puzzled by my own experiment.
Let's wait and see how much they will influence each other.
Your point of view is quite interesting.
Thank you.
Bye.
Mauro

Mauro Gibo
12-04-2009, 05:18 AM
WOW, -72C!!!

Thanks, Happy Advent and Merry Christmas to you!

Harvey-72 in Siberia not Japan. We get -20 in Hokkaido, North Japan. I'm in the middle land. It's only 0 degree around here.

harveyc
12-04-2009, 10:42 AM
Oh! If you only get down to 0C, you should have plenty of bananas that can survive. I'm at -1C right now and most of my bananas look "okay". This is my sixth morning of frost in the past three weeks. Winter is early here this year but I've still got a banana bunch hanging on one plant right now.

Mauro Gibo
12-04-2009, 07:58 PM
Oh! If you only get down to 0C, you should have plenty of bananas that can survive. I'm at -1C right now and most of my bananas look "okay". This is my sixth morning of frost in the past three weeks. Winter is early here this year but I've still got a banana bunch hanging on one plant right now. Harveyc, please tell me what kind of bananas you are growing there. Especially the one with the bunch. Here in mainland Japan, there is no edible banana that bears fruits. By the way this year the frost is late. We didn't have any yet.
Harveyc, please check this site.
How do I winterize banana trees in North Carolina? - UBC Botanical Garden Forums (http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58642)

#6 November 4th, 2009, 12:42 PM
jpasquini
Contributor (30-99 posts) Join Date: May 2007
Location: Springfield, Illinois
Posts: 50

Re: How do I winterize banana trees in North Carolina?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We had a mini-golf course here in town (Springfield, IL) that had banana trees for many years in a row.
What I heard they did was they left the roots in the ground, grafted the trees off at about 6" from the ground in V's and then covered the roots in mulch so they didn't freeze.

The rumour was they kept the shafts indoors in their basement and then reattached them in the spring by 'plugging them back in' and staking, but I never talked to them personally or saw them do it. It was all a very interesting story. But the trees most certainly were there, year after year and quite large.
May be all hearsay and nonsense, but if it helps, so be it."

Grafting bananas is sounding more like a folks tale.
I heard these rumours in Brazil too.
But no one has actually seen them being grafted.
Bye.
Mauro.

harveyc
12-05-2009, 01:11 AM
Hello Mauro,

You can check my profile for my full list of bananas, but that isn't as helpful since many of them have not lived a full winter outdoors yet. The ones I've grown for several years include an unknown variety (search "mystery busy bee banana" and you'll find photos, etc.) which most believe to be the tall form of Namwah. It was sold to me as Dwarf Orinoco in tissue culture form, but it flowered just under 11' tall the past two summers. It has survived outdoors several winters with temperatures dipping down 26F-28F but in January 2007 we got down to 20F and the plant died but sprouted back pups from the corm. I also had Rajapuri and Dwarf Brazilian with similar situations and they flowered for me in 2008 but not in 2009. My Ice Cream died completely in the January 2007 freeze. I also have some unknown bananas called California Gold and another called California Cold Hardy. These fruit for others in my area but I am still waiting. I have let a smudge pot (outdoor heater using various forms of petroleum, I burn used motor oil), but I haven't used it for over a week and this morning we got down to 26F. I did spray my banana with fruit with the water house at about 6:45am to help prevent freezing damage. If it wasn't for the fruit on the plant, I would just leave it alone and let the leaves be killed. I'll do this eventually and expect they to sprout new leaves from the top in the spring (unless it goes down to the low 20s).

My expensive Ae Ae have had more care such as being dug up and spending the winter in the greenhouse. Others will have to survive on their own as I'm not about to be wrapping every plant or diging them all up. I don't think I'd make it as a zone 8 (or lower) banana grower.

Best wishes,

Harvey

jeffreyp
12-05-2009, 12:24 PM
I planted a Mysore next to a saba and the second generation of mysore corm was very tight against the saba corms. I did notice some very large growth of the mysore that grew maybe 40% larger than a typical mysore. Perhaps Moro is onto something. Could there be some possible growth factors in the corm/roots of the saba that were influencing the adjacent mysore corm? I didn't really pay much attention to it until this thread was brought up.

Mauro Gibo
01-14-2010, 07:52 AM
Don't get me wrong here; I am a firm believer in experimenting also! I experiment all of the time with plants. I'm just saying that there will be no gene transfer from plant-to-plant, and so they won't breed to create a new cultivar in this way. It is feasible that the two corms could grow together, and that there could be cell movement from one corm to the other. It is also theoretically possible for a chimera to result, although the chances are extremely slim. What will most likely happen is that you will have Musa basjoo pups coming up on one side, and Raja Puri pups on the other.

Good luck with it. I hope something good happens!



Home > CABI Abstract
Title: Identification and selection of superior banana phenotypes in the cultivar Dwarf Cavendish using agronomic characteristics and RAPD markers.
Personal Authors: Gubbuk, H., Pekmezci, M., Onus, A. N., Erkan, M.
Author Affiliation: Department of Horticulture, Faculty of Agriculture, Akdeniz University, Antalya 07059, Turkey.
Editors: No editors
Document Title: Pakistan Journal of Botany

Abstract:
Banana off-types resulting from spontaneous mutations in field- and greenhouse-grown banana cv. Dwarf Cavendish in Turkey were identified. Mutations were identified based on the occurrence of altered agronomic parameters and via genetic polymorphisms as detected by random amplified polymorphic DNA (RAPD) analysis. The phenotypic characters evaluated included stem circumference, plant height, number of leaves at the flowering stage, bunch stalk circumference, number of fruit hands and fruits, bunch weight, and fruit circumference and length. Selection studies resulted in the identification of 48 off-types, 17 of which were identified in the field and 31 in the greenhouse. Eight of the selected off-types (2 from the field and 6 from the greenhouse) showed high levels of stability for various agronomic characters over a 3-year period of observation [years not given]. These off-types showed higher levels of variability for morphological characters affecting yield than the control Dwarf Cavendish. Genetic similarities between the types ranged from 0.550 to 0.913, whereas the genetic differences varied from 0.088 to 0.413, as determined by RAPD analysis. The high levels of genetic polymorphism among banana types indicated that the RAPD technique can be useful in evaluating banana intra-varietal genetic variation. Types Alanya 5, Gazipasa 11, Gazipasa 15, Anamur 10, Anamur 8 and Anamur 12 had the greatest similarities, whereas Alanya 5 and the control Dwarf Cavendish were the most distant types. The results indicated that selections on banana grown in subtropical conditions allowed the identification of superior types in terms of yield and quality.


Publisher: Pakistan Botanical Society

novisyatria
01-14-2010, 08:35 AM
Hi
So far i know, grafting cannot create new hybrid. only fusion rootstock and scion which have different characteristic. so what is the purpose grafting bananas? maybe its can held permanent but each still different type and i think they pups will same like mother plant. grafting not same as breeding between pollen and anther from different typa which can create new hybrid.
thanks

jeffreyp
01-14-2010, 08:52 AM
Maybe some growth factors or something similar is shared when two corms are fused together?

Abnshrek
01-14-2010, 11:09 PM
I think this thread is very interesting. I don't feel I need t go out and play god, but I think if plants fuse together which can happen they may share things that could possibly help or hinder the other plant :^) There's not 100's of types of banana's for no reason ...

Mauro Gibo
01-15-2010, 02:12 AM
Hi
So far i know, grafting cannot create new hybrid. only fusion rootstock and scion which have different characteristic. so what is the purpose grafting bananas? maybe its can held permanent but each still different type and i think they pups will same like mother plant. grafting not same as breeding between pollen and anther from different typa which can create new hybrid.
thanksUntil recently, I had the information that spontaneous mutation in the banana plants occurred only in the wild and very rarely. Now, I have new information that mutation occurs in banana plantations and inside the green houses more often than we expected. I still think clone variation or mutation in the banana plants occur more frequently. And if we give it a little push it will happen more often.
If my banana plant survive this winter will you allow me to call it a mutant?
Thank you for sharing your point of view.
I will continue my experiment until I grow tired of it. I hope I will get somewhere though. I've been trying for so long.

Richard
01-15-2010, 02:32 AM
Mauro,

In the scheme of things, I think your test has been a short time. Keep up the spirit!

damaclese
01-15-2010, 10:25 AM
i was reading every ones new post and it occurred to me that perhaps and this is speculation on my part that if a specific gene or grouping of gene produce certain chemical environments with in the specified plant then this in and of its self creates a growth environment specific to this plant. if a new grope of cells were introduced in to the donors chemical environment at least on a superficial Level those cells would be affected to some degree in there metabolic and growth patterns would be altered.

for example. one could expect changes to leaf shape or fruit yields timing of fruiting and onset of offspring initiation could also be affected either positively or negatively. as i said this is speculation but it dose have a ring of logic to it.

there have been many studies done on both plant and animal cells where by the specific cells were subjected to altered chemical environments. this is the bases for drug studs. applying chemicals to a cell or group of cells and then analyzing how that cell reacts to the new environment. there are almost always some changes.

for example one mite expect to see timing rates change, cell wall densities changing + or -, slowing or speeding of metalization rates of reproduction and so on and so forth.

it stands to reason that if this graft is made. there is some effect of chemical transfer even if its only in the regions just adjacent to the graft its self. thees cells along the graft will behave inherently differently then the cells that are more distant from the graft. i would think this effect would relate to total cell volume. so there for the younger the graft the grater the effect on the organism in totality. whether this changes either plants life cycle remains to be seen. but i think it imprudent to put forth the supposition that there is no affect this is contrary to logic.

I hope this makes sens. being dyslexic makes thees concepts extremely hard for me to convey coherently.

ron_mcb
01-15-2010, 12:07 PM
hey mauro keep it up. dont stop your experiments/research untill you are satisfied.

jeffreyp
01-15-2010, 02:30 PM
I agree, have fun with your project!

Blake09
01-15-2010, 07:03 PM
:woohoonaner:

:goteam:

:lurk:

Mauro Gibo
01-15-2010, 08:36 PM
i was reading every ones new post and it occurred to me that perhaps and this is speculation on my part that if a specific gene or grouping of gene produce certain chemical environments with in the specified plant then this in and of its self creates a growth environment specific to this plant. if a new grope of cells were introduced in to the donors chemical environment at least on a superficial Level those cells would be affected to some degree in there metabolic and growth patterns would be altered.

for example. one could expect changes to leaf shape or fruit yields timing of fruiting and onset of offspring initiation could also be affected either positively or negatively. as i said this is speculation but it dose have a ring of logic to it.

there have been many studies done on both plant and animal cells where by the specific cells were subjected to altered chemical environments. this is the bases for drug studs. applying chemicals to a cell or group of cells and then analyzing how that cell reacts to the new environment. there are almost always some changes.

for example one mite expect to see timing rates change, cell wall densities changing + or -, slowing or speeding of metalization rates of reproduction and so on and so forth.

it stands to reason that if this graft is made. there is some effect of chemical transfer even if its only in the regions just adjacent to the graft its self. thees cells along the graft will behave inherently differently then the cells that are more distant from the graft. i would think this effect would relate to total cell volume. so there for the younger the graft the grater the effect on the organism in totality. whether this changes either plants life cycle remains to be seen. but i think it imprudent to put forth the supposition that there is no affect this is contrary to logic.

I hope this makes sens. being dyslexic makes thees concepts extremely hard for me to convey coherently. Paulo, thank you for sharing your point of view. Lately, the president of my company said that the The days of the Big Three car makers are gone. Now we are at the age or era of the Small Hundreds. It is really wonderful that we can share and discuss our ideas and point of views from the four corners of the earth through the internet. I am not an expert in Botany. I am just a small guy who likes plants. Many people have asked me why graft banana plants? There is no meaning, no reason to do it. I started to think about it and then I remembered. I was quite surprised when I came to live in Okinawa and met an American family who had the skill to can a lot of vegetables including tomatoes. My family knew nothing about it. I asked myself why don't we have such skill? Then later on I understood why Brazilians didn't care to learn how to can or preserve vegetables. There is no need if you have fresh vegetables all year round. Brazil is a tropical and subtropical country, no cold winter. I think if I lived in a tropical country and grew bananas naturally I wouldn't care to graft them either. But as I live in a cold country, now, I have the urge to find a way to grow them here. I think I was lucky to find the musa basjoo to use as a root stock for my graftings. I can't prove anything yet, but one thing I can tell you, I do a lot of thinking and the messages you write to me give me a lot of inspiration and support. Maybe the friendship we build discussing the subject is more important than the experiment itself. I am counting on your comments. Thank you.

jeffreyp
01-15-2010, 11:39 PM
I agree Mauro, there is a saying that necessity is the mother of invention. Even when I was a boy I attempted grafting apple branches onto a pear tree for the fun of it and to learn. Maybe something will become of your experiments ? Do not lose heart.

Sincerely,


Jeff

Richard
01-16-2010, 12:11 AM
Hey Mauro,

I really like the fruiting papaya plant in your Avatar. Any idea what kind it is?

Mauro Gibo
01-16-2010, 04:55 AM
Hey Mauro,

I really like the fruiting papaya plant in your Avatar. Any idea what kind it is? I had this papaya plant in my yard in Okinawa. I bought the plant at a local nursery. I think it is a hybrid of the Hawaiian papaya which is very sweet. There are many kinds of papayas in Okinawa but they like to eat them green as a vegetable, like the Mexicans eat the chayote. In Brazil we always ate the papaya as a fruit when it is ripe. I think the Okinawans consider the papaya a vegetable, not a fruit. You never see them eating the papaya when it is ripe. Long time ago when I traveled to Manila, Philippines, I always ate the papaya in the morning breakfast with calamansi juice on it. It's delicious. Here in Japan we call the calamansi, Chinese little lemon. It tastes very good. I think Mr. Chong knows the calamansi lemon. I used to travel a lot here in Asia, especially China, but I've never seen the calamansi anywhere outside the Phillipines. Not even in Vietnam.

Mauro Gibo
01-22-2010, 07:26 PM
Mauro, there is no need to hide in a cave! I salute you for bringing this subject to everyone's attention. Trial and error is the fuel that leads to new discoveries. In fact, when I get some extra pups of something, I will do it here, too. As I mentioned in a message to you, I have some ideas I want to try with your experiment.
Your humility seems to be something that came from a graft between Brazil and Japan. I find this to be a quality that I need to practice myself. I enjoy reading your posts and hope that you will not stop. This site is for banana enthusiasts around the world and there is no question about your enthusiasm. Whether it be for experimentation, approval or simple appreciation of bananas, we are all here because of our interest in bananas. Keep on doing what you wish, I will read every word.Hi, Scot !
I haven't heard from you lately. How are you? Here is some information about plants:
The fact that scientists now recognize that plants have an immune system is the result of pioneering work by Paul Schulze-Lefert, a director of the Plant Breeding Institute for eight years. Initially, plants were believed to have inflexible and underdeveloped defense systems, but in a series of publications, Schulze-Lefert described the molecular foundations of sophisticated protection mechanisms. While they have neither circulation nor specialized immune cells, plants do have a dual radar system in each cell, one external and one internal. The external radar consists of a series of receptors. When one of these recognizes a pathogen, it sets off an alarm that triggers a defensive response. If the pathogen still manages to penetrate into the cell, it comes up against a second line of defense. If the relevant sensor is triggered the cell undergoes apoptosis, as a way of protecting the rest of the plant. "These two radar screens are a highly dynamic system based on resistance genes that constantly develop in the race against pests," says Schulze-Lefert. "The fact that whole crops are sometimes destroyed by pathogens has to do with the constraints placed on this co-evolutionary process ever since the pool of resistance genes started being restricted by breeding and vegetative reproduction. Our job is to give the plants new resistance genes, ideally combinations of them."

Richard
01-22-2010, 07:32 PM
... I've never seen the calamansi anywhere outside the Phillipines. Not even in Vietnam.

They are very common here in California because we have both good citrus weather and many immigrants from the Philippines.

Mauro Gibo
01-22-2010, 07:59 PM
They are very common here in California because we have both good citrus weather and many immigrants from the Philippines. It's just like me. I have many citrus fruits from Brazil here in Japan although the climate is too cold for citrus fruits. We Brazilians love the Tahiti Lime, which we call it lemon. In Brazil I've never seen the calamansi little lemon. I do enjoy eating papaya with calamansi juice and watch the sunset at Manila Bay. Someday I'll be back there again. Thanks.

jeffreyp
01-22-2010, 09:34 PM
That's not true Mauro, Satsuma mandarins and Yuzu citrus are grown in Japan.

Mauro Gibo
01-22-2010, 10:54 PM
That's not true Mauro, Satsuma mandarins and Yuzu citrus are grown in Japan. Yes, but not Honshu main island. Citrus are grown in Shikoku, another island where it is 5 degrees celcius higher than here in the winter.

jeffreyp
01-23-2010, 06:06 AM
Even still those varieties are very cold tolerant, you ought to try.

Mauro Gibo
01-23-2010, 07:16 AM
Even still those varieties are very cold tolerant, you ought to try. Thank you for your advise jeffreyp, I already have most kinds of citrus in my orchard, including the Satsuma which we call it here Onshu Mikan. I have the ponkan, the dekopon also which are very good. What I meant is that although we grow so many citrus fruits around here, the climate is not proper. The winter hurt them pretty bad. This year I sent 2 boxes full of Satsuma Mikan to my family in Okinawa. The navel orange doen't grow well here, also the Eureka lemon, that kind they grow in Cicily Island, Italy. All the navel oranges and lemons we buy at the market are imported from California, US.
You are right about that they are very cold tolerant. Last week, I went to Gifu Prefecture where the altitude is very high and it snows a lot and I saw many Satsuma Mikan planted in the mountains. In the southern region of Mie where I live they grow the dekopon in greenhouses for export. I learned that Japan exports a lot of Satsuma Mikan to Canada and I was quite surprised.
Although the climate is a little bit too cold for lemons, i succeeded in growing Lisbon lemons, Mexican limes, Tahiti limes, Okinawan hiramin lemon and even calamansi, not to mention Brazilian wild lemons, which they use for rootstock in Brazil.
Here is a new video about my bananas.
Bananas is the only fruit I wasn't able to harvest yet. But I shall!
YouTube - My Grafted Lady Finger_0001.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51yXvvBp0rw)
Please forgive my bad English. My false teeth makes a funny sound.
So long for now.
hope to hear from you again.
bye.

Jack Daw
01-23-2010, 07:39 AM
Very interesting, Mauro.

Mauro Gibo
01-23-2010, 08:06 AM
Very interesting, Mauro.Hi Jack Daw, you live in a cold country too. I'm a loco man, that means crazy in Spanish. When I started growing bananas in my room it became a banana jungle and my wife almost asked me for a divorce. I have 2 edible varieties which didn't die in the past 5 years. The Lady Finger from Okinawa, Ryukyu Island, which I believe is a sister of the musa liukiuensis, Ito Bashoh, and the Raja Puri from India. The banana pups my brother brought me from Brazil all died during the first winter. Send me your address and I will send you the banana pups next spring. Make sure you plant them in a place where they get enough sunshine all winter. The banana plants like a lot of water in the summer but during the winter they hate moisture. Don't give them any water if possible. Another thing, maybe you should not graft them like me or people may send you to the same mental institution where my wife wants to send me.
Best Regards,
Mauro Gibo

Jack Daw
01-23-2010, 08:13 AM
Hi Jack Daw, you live in a cold country too. I'm a loco man, that means crazy in Spanish. When I started growing bananas in my room it became a banana jungle and my wife almost asked me for a divorce. I have 2 edible varieties which didn't die in the past 5 years. The Lady Finger from Okinawa, Ryukyu Island, which I believe is a sister of the musa liukiuensis, Ito Bashoh, and the Raja Puri from India. The banana pups my brother brought me from Brazil all died during the first winter. Send me your address and I will send you the banana pups next spring. Make sure you plant them in a place where they get enough sunshine all winter. The banana plants like a lot of water in the summer but during the winter they hate moisture. Don't give them any water if possible. Another thing, maybe you should not graft them like me or people may send you to the same mental institution where my wife wants to send me.
Best Regards,
Mauro Gibo
Heh, thanks Mauro, but I too have several varieties including Musa 'Raja Puri' and Lady Finger is unlikely to survive here. I'm interested in your grafting techniques, seeing that the plant lives, it just gives me hope that it might survive. Will you write a complete guide on how to graft bananas, once you succeed? That would definitely be worth a shot here.
How long did it take before the graft was accepted by basjoo P-stem remnants?

Mauro Gibo
01-23-2010, 09:12 AM
Heh, thanks Mauro, but I too have several varieties including Musa 'Raja Puri' and Lady Finger is unlikely to survive here. I'm interested in your grafting techniques, seeing that the plant lives, it just gives me hope that it might survive. Will you write a complete guide on how to graft bananas, once you succeed? That would definitely be worth a shot here.
How long did it take before the graft was accepted by basjoo P-stem remnants?Of course, I will post all the procedures of how to do it. But first, I have to make a video of me harvesting my ripe bananas and eating them with great delight. I am quite positive this year, because the coldest days are already gone. After February 15, the Japanese apricot tree starts blooming. That means that the weather will get warmer everyday. First I choose the 2 pups of about the same size and split the corms with a disinfected knife, tie them together and control the growth of the rootstock without killing it. I am not a botanist so I have no scientific knowlege of the behavior of the plant. But I believe that the cells of the bananas can recognize a friend from a foe. I let them exchange cells for 2 or three months then I stop the growth of the rootstock completely by cutting it down every time it grows and let the scion grow freely. Later on I will give you more specified information. I rely a lot on intuition. If you try, please have in mind that the environment is also very important for the growth and fusion of the banana pups.
Bye for now.
Hope to hear from you again.
Please wish me luck, I need it very much.

Jack Daw
01-23-2010, 09:41 AM
Of course, I will post all the procedures of how to do it. But first, I have to make a video of me harvesting my ripe bananas and eating them with great delight. I am quite positive this year, because the coldest days are already gone. After February 15, the Japanese apricot tree starts blooming. That means that the weather will get warmer everyday. First I choose the 2 pups of about the same size and split the corms with a disinfected knife, tie them together and control the growth of the rootstock without killing it. I am not a botanist so I have no scientific knowlege of the behavior of the plant. But I believe that the cells of the bananas can recognize a friend from a foe. I let them exchange cells for 2 or three months then I stop the growth of the rootstock completely by cutting it down every time it grows and let the scion grow freely. Later on I will give you more specified information. I rely a lot on intuition. If you try, please have in mind that the environment is also very important for the growth and fusion of the banana pups.
Bye for now.
Hope to hear from you again.
Please wish me luck, I need it very much.
Good luck, pal, I hope you'll be succesful!

jeffreyp
01-23-2010, 09:47 AM
I saw the video of the lady finger/basjoo, do you have any lady finger banana plants to compare that have not been grafted?


In regard to citrus, there are many other varieties that I didn't mention that are very cold hardy. Some of these varieties with a cold hardiness rating can be found on a german site located here:

Zitruspflanzen-Grtnerei Voss (http://www.agrumi-voss.de/citrus.htm)



.

Jack Daw
01-23-2010, 10:41 AM
Or here (go into each section to read about those citruses in English):
Citrusy (http://www.exotickerostliny.cz/en/katalog-rostlin-othermenu-95/citrusy-othermenu-90.html)

Mauro Gibo
01-23-2010, 06:45 PM
I saw the video of the lady finger/basjoo, do you have any lady finger banana plants to compare that have not been grafted?


In regard to citrus, there are many other varieties that I didn't mention that are very cold hardy. Some of these varieties with a cold hardiness rating can be found on a german site located here:

Zitruspflanzen-Grtnerei Voss (http://www.agrumi-voss.de/citrus.htm)



. I'm sorry but I don't have. Out of 9 pups which I brought from Okinawa, 8 died in the first 2 years. Only the one I grafted survived. If I had I could compare. I will bring pups from Okinawa again if the Quarantine doesn't catch me.
Bye and thanks for the information on the citrus. I will find a way to get them and plant in my orchard.

Richard
01-23-2010, 08:36 PM
... I have many citrus fruits from Brazil here ...

Mauro, I think you know that the Citrus grown in Brazil (and everywhere else) is native to China?

Mauro Gibo
01-23-2010, 09:09 PM
Mauro, I think you know that the Citrus grown in Brazil (and everywhere else) is native to China?and Vietnam, Yes. I also know that the lemon was taken to Rome through the silk road during the Roman Empire since "All Roads leaded to Rome"!
The Brazilian wild lemon I was telling you about grew wild in Vietnam, too. I bought them in the market in Hanoi. I think the Portuguese and the Italians took the citrus to Brazil during Colombus days.
I do a lot of reading but I don't talk much about it, because people will think that I'm trying to be the bright guy.
I really like history.
Thank you for you comment.
Please be in touch.
Mauro

Richard
01-23-2010, 09:35 PM
and Vietnam, Yes. I also know that the lemon was taken to Rome through the silk road during the Roman Empire since "All Roads leaded to Rome"!
The Brazilian wild lemon I was telling you about grew wild in Vietnam, too. I bought them in the market in Hanoi. I think the Portuguese and the Italians took the citrus to Brazil during Colombus days.
I do a lot of reading but I don't talk much about it, because people will think that I'm trying to be the bright guy.
I really like history.
Thank you for you comment.
Please be in touch.
Mauro

Oh, but I think the history of the fruit is the next best thing to eating it!

So yes, the far east did not have any fruits (guavas, chilies, etc.) of the western hemisphere until a Spanish Galleon landed in Manilla in 1526. The captain made a small fortune! A few ships made the reverse trek in the next few years, but in 1531 The Spanish and the Dutch arrived in the Caribbean and what is now Venezuela with small fleets of ships carrying many agricultural goods to trade. And so it began!

Mauro Gibo
01-23-2010, 11:16 PM
Oh, but I think the history of the fruit is the next best thing to eating it!

So yes, the far east did not have any fruits (guavas, chilies, etc.) of the western hemisphere until a Spanish Galleon landed in Manilla in 1526. The captain made a small fortune! A few ships made the reverse trek in the next few years, but in 1531 The Spanish and the Dutch arrived in the Caribbean and what is now Venezuela with small fleets of ships carrying many agricultural goods to trade. And so it began!Richard, I didn't know you liked history too. I love history. For example, if you come to Japan the first Japanese food they want you to eat is "tempura", but most Japanese don't know it was the Portuguese missionaries who introduced it to Japan around 1533 in Tanegashima. Kagoshima Prefecture. Tempura came from the word "tempero", which is Portuguese. "Kabocha", in Japanese is pumpkin, it was introduced in Japan from Cambodia. "Jagaimo" is potatoes, it was introduced from Jakarta. "Pan", bread, came from the word pao, which is also Portuguese. It's interesting to know about the history of our culture isn't it?
The only part of history which makes me sad is that the great Christopher Columbus, died in a convent in Valladolid, Spain, pennyless and forgotten by everyone.
When you have time please write to me about history. And I will tell you about what I've learned here in Asia.
Bye for now and thank you.

jeffreyp
01-24-2010, 03:49 AM
Some say Christopher Columbus was technically Italian because he was born in Genoa, Italy but spain gets all the credit.
I think it's interesting to see how plants evolve when grown in different parts of the world. The Japanese Ichiban eggplant comes to mind, quite a big variation from the black beauty variety we grow here in the states. Do you know what USDA gardening zone you are in ?

Jelitto Perennial Seeds: Japan Hardiness Zones (http://www.jelitto.com/english/japan.htm)



.

Mauro Gibo
01-24-2010, 04:05 AM
Some say Christopher Columbus was technically Italian because he was born in Genoa, Italy.
I think it's interesting to see how plants evolve when grown in different parts of the world. The Japanese Ichiban eggplant comes to mind, quite a big variation from the black beauty variety we grow here in the states. Do you know what USDA gardening zone you are in ?

Jelitto Perennial Seeds: Japan Hardiness Zones (http://www.jelitto.com/english/japan.htm)



.I didn't know but I checked it . It's 9a. I believe.

jeffreyp
01-24-2010, 11:45 AM
There are many banana varieties that will grow in zone 9a but even still I hope your grafting does confer some benefit.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 05:14 PM
There are many banana varieties that will grow in zone 9a but even still I hope your grafting does confer some benefit.Jeffreyp, has anyone harvested edible bananas in zone 9a in US?
I mean not in greenhouses, in the open field.
I was told that the Raja Puri was cold tolerant, but that wasn't true.
About 5 years ago we didn't have the Raja Puri here in Japan. Some guys, banana enthusiasts, imported few seedlings from Canada. I asked my brother to look for the Raja Puri in Brazil for me and as he couldn't find any in Brazil, he bought the Raja Puri in California and brought them to me here in Kameyama. Out of 72 seedlings only 5 survived the first winter and those that survived looked pretty bad. So I took 2 seedlings to Okinawa where the climate is subtropical and I have harvested good bananas these past years.
If you know edible bananas that can produce in the open field in zone 9a, could you tell me their names, please.
Thank you,
Mauro.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 05:26 PM
There are many banana varieties that will grow in zone 9a but even still I hope your grafting does confer some benefit.Jeffreyp, in Brazil I've seen one banana plant produce 4 bunches at the same time. I saw a picture edited at a Brazilian farmers magazine called Globo Rural where the farmer cut down the plant few inches above the ground and it produced a big bunch without any leaves at all.
That's why I believe there is something enigmatic, mystic, about the banana plants.

Jack Daw
01-25-2010, 05:33 PM
I asked my brother to look for the Raja Puri in Brazil for me and as he couldn't find any in Brazil, he bought the Raja Puri in California and brought them to me here in Kameyama. Out of 72 seedlings only 5 survived the first winter and those that survived looked pretty bad.
Mauro.
Mauro, Raja Puri can't have seedlings, wasn't it some Hybrid (Helen's...)?

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 05:33 PM
Some say Christopher Columbus was technically Italian because he was born in Genoa, Italy but spain gets all the credit.
I think it's interesting to see how plants evolve when grown in different parts of the world. The Japanese Ichiban eggplant comes to mind, quite a big variation from the black beauty variety we grow here in the states. Do you know what USDA gardening zone you are in ?

Jelitto Perennial Seeds: Japan Hardiness Zones (http://www.jelitto.com/english/japan.htm)



.As far as I know, no Japanese has ever harvested any edible banana grown in the open field here in mainland Japan, except in greenhouses.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 05:47 PM
Mauro, Raja Puri can't have seedlings, wasn't it some Hybrid (Helen's...)?I meant small plants grown in labs through tissue culture. They looked like leeks. My brother hid 72 plants in a small chocolate box so the customs wouldn't find them. Japan forbids the import of banana plants from Us. Only from Canada is okay. But I didn't find anyone in Canada to send them to me. I hope the results will justify the means though. I don't feel bad about smuggling them because they were guaranteed desease free plants.

Richard
01-25-2010, 05:51 PM
Mauro,
As we discussed before, there is a problem with the USDA cold hardiness zones. For some people, "9a" is about 10 nights a year of temperatures dropping from 35 F to 25 F and otherwise daytime temperatures above 40 F. However, for a lot of people "9a" is daytime temperatures in the high 30's and nighttime temperatures in the low 20's. Obviously, fruiting bananas grown in the 1st example are not likely to survive in the 2nd.

Richard
01-25-2010, 05:56 PM
I meant small plants grown in labs through tissue culture. They looked like leeks. My brother hid 72 plants in a small chocolate box so the customs wouldn't find them. Japan forbids the import of banana plants from Us. Only from Canada is okay. But I didn't find anyone in Canada to send them to me. I hope the results will justify the means though. I don't feel bad about smuggling them because they were guaranteed desease free plants.

Actually, they can be shipped from U.S. to Japan provided
1. they are corms with no leaves and insignificant stalk and very clean - no dirt.
2. the nursery has a CITES permit or gets a phytosanitary certificate for the corm.

The key is that it must be a corm - therefore falling into the seed and bulb category of plant material.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 06:12 PM
Actually, they can be shipped from U.S. to Japan provided
1. they are corms with no leaves and insignificant stalk and very clean - no dirt.
2. the nursery has a CITES permit or gets a phytosanitary certificate for the corm.

The key is that it must be a corm - therefore falling into the seed and bulb category of plant material.At the time I didn't know about the Bananas. Org and I didn't have any American friend interested in farming or plants. Now it's different. I know people like you could help me, Richard.
I'm counting on you to get information about importing procedures. Thanks.
I really don't enjoy smuggling because I also work for the Japanese Government. I'm a bad boy.
Thank you for the information.
Bye.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 06:34 PM
Mauro,
As we discussed before, there is a problem with the USDA cold hardiness zones. For some people, "9a" is about 10 nights a year of temperatures dropping from 35 F to 25 F and otherwise daytime temperatures above 40 F. However, for a lot of people "9a" is daytime temperatures in the high 30's and nighttime temperatures in the low 20's. Obviously, fruiting bananas grown in the 1st example are not likely to survive in the 2nd.
Paleolithic Humans and Culture of the Ryukyu Archipelago

It has been said that humans emerged on earth about 40 million years ago. In Japan, at the Iwajuku site in Gunma Prefecture, flaked stone tools dated about 30,000 years ago have been excavated. In all there are about 5,000 sites in Japan from the Paleolithic age.
While tools have been found in abundance from the Paleolithic era, human remains have not been excavated in any great quantity and there is very little concrete knowledge about the Stone Age humans.
The total picture of Paleolithic humans was made substantially clearer with the discovery of the Minatogawa remains found in 1967 in Okinawa. It was a complete fossil find showing the skull, hands, and feet of a modern human and was dated to 17.000 years ago. This discovery allowed researchers to get a clear and concrete idea of the appearance of Paleolithic humans and contributed to a great advance in research on the Stone Age.
There have been finds of human fossils in other parts of Okinawa as well; the Yama****a Dojin human in Naha City, the Shimoji-genjin human on Kume-jima Island, and the Pinza-abu human on Miyakojima Island.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 06:41 PM
Paleolithic Humans and Culture of the Ryukyu Archipelago

It has been said that humans emerged on earth about 40 million years ago. In Japan, at the Iwajuku site in Gunma Prefecture, flaked stone tools dated about 30,000 years ago have been excavated. In all there are about 5,000 sites in Japan from the Paleolithic age.
While tools have been found in abundance from the Paleolithic era, human remains have not been excavated in any great quantity and there is very little concrete knowledge about the Stone Age humans.
The total picture of Paleolithic humans was made substantially clearer with the discovery of the Minatogawa remains found in 1967 in Okinawa. It was a complete fossil find showing the skull, hands, and feet of a modern human and was dated to 17.000 years ago. This discovery allowed researchers to get a clear and concrete idea of the appearance of Paleolithic humans and contributed to a great advance in research on the Stone Age.
There have been finds of human fossils in other parts of Okinawa as well; the Yama****a Dojin human in Naha City, the Shimoji-genjin human on Kume-jima Island, and the Pinza-abu human on Miyakojima Island. If the primitive man started cultivating the banana plant 10.000 years ago, the Okinawans should have a very long history of banana farming since they have been there since 17.000 years ago.

jeffreyp
01-25-2010, 06:54 PM
Mauro,
As we discussed before, there is a problem with the USDA cold hardiness zones. For some people, "9a" is about 10 nights a year of temperatures dropping from 35 F to 25 F and otherwise daytime temperatures above 40 F. However, for a lot of people "9a" is daytime temperatures in the high 30's and nighttime temperatures in the low 20's. Obviously, fruiting bananas grown in the 1st example are not likely to survive in the 2nd.

it depends on the variety. It seems you don't have a large selection to choose from.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 07:26 PM
If the primitive man started cultivating the banana plant 10.000 years ago, the Okinawans should have a very long history of banana farming since they have been there since 17.000 years ago.What I am trying to say is that maybe I already have a cold tolerant lady finger variety acclimatized to this type of climate without knowing. The weather in Japan during summer doesn't differ from the Philippines or Malasya, it's very hot and humid. The winter is the problem, because we get cold freezing winds from Siberia. The Raja Puri didn't do well after I grafted them because they are extremely tropical. But my lady finger as it is already acclimatized to a subtropical climate and has more similarities to the musa basjoo is doing better. It just a supposition, though.

asacomm
01-25-2010, 08:16 PM
As far as I know, no Japanese has ever harvested any edible banana grown in the open field here in mainland Japan, except in greenhouses.

Hallo Bon dia Mauro,

Unfortunatly you are wrong. I repeatedly harvested edible sweet bananas
in the open ground without using green house here in Shizuoka City on the
Pacific coast about the center of the main land of Japan of which climate
zone is 9a/b where the lowest temperature dropped even to minus 2℃ for
a coule of days since the beginning of this month.
Here is a photo of one of the bananas I ever harvested.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=3716&size=1

Richard
01-25-2010, 08:43 PM
Hallo Bon dia Mauro,

Unfortunatly you are wrong. ...

Looks more like "Fortunately" he is wrong!

Nice photo. :woohoonaner:

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 10:12 PM
Hallo Bon dia Mauro,

Unfortunatly you are wrong. I repeatedly harvested edible sweet bananas
in the open ground without using green house here in Shizuoka City on the
Pacific coast about the center of the main land of Japan of which climate
zone is 9a/b where the lowest temperature dropped even to minus 2℃ for
a coule of days since the beginning of this month.
Here is a photo of one of the bananas I ever harvested.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=3716&size=1Asacomm, that's great! You are the only one I know of, now, that has been successful and I am happy to be wrong. But as you know that doesn't mean that I will be successful too. Because Shizuoka gets the warm south wind from the Pacific Ocean even in the winter. Here in Kameyama, where I live, at the foot of the Suzuka Mountain Range the climate is much colder than Shizuoka.
We have a lot of frost which is worst than snow. The day after I made the video of my grafted banana, we had a heavy frost that terrified me. I thought it was the end of my bananas. But I just checked on them and they look fine. I still have great hope of attaining success.
By the way, tell me what kind of edible banana produced fruit at your place?
It makes me very curious.
Por favor!
Obrigado.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Looks more like "Fortunately" he is wrong!

Nice photo. :woohoonaner:I feel the same way, I give him my congratulations!
To tell you guys the truth I know somebody else who has been successful too, but it doen't count because he has a hot spring near by, and the enrionment is really warm.

Mauro Gibo
01-25-2010, 10:24 PM
I feel the same way, I give him my congratulations!
To tell you guys the truth I know somebody else who has been successful too, but it doen't count because he has a hot spring near by, and the enrionment is really warm.I mean environment. Please forgive my wrong spelling, my eye sight fails me. Sorry.

jeffreyp
01-26-2010, 02:18 AM
Mauro,

I was thinking about your climate and it's not too different from southern Georgia here in the USA. You can see from the photos after some hard freezes the bananas suffered some fried leaves but they came back in the spring/summer. I think your disappointments have more to do with variety.

http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/26731/1/36010048.pdf

Jeff

Mauro Gibo
01-26-2010, 02:54 AM
Mauro,

I was thinking about your climate and it's not too different from southern Georgia here in the USA. You can see from the photos after some hard freezes the bananas suffered some fried leaves but they came back in the spring/summer. I think your disappointments have more to do with variety.

http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/26731/1/36010048.pdf

JeffWow, Jeffreyp! That's good information. I will read it at least a hundred times so I can apply it to my orchard. Sometimes I felt kinda stupid for trying to grow bananas here, but now I feel more confident. I felt very discouraged when I lost the pups my other brother brought from Brazil. My second brother brought me pups of 6 different varieties popular in Brazil and I lost all of them in the first winter about 6 years ago. At present the only edible varieties I have is the Raja Puri and the Okinawan banana which I call Lady Finger. If you have more information, please let me know. My real aim is to harvest fresh bananas. I didn't know our friend from Shizuoka had been successful already. I just don't know the type of banana he has. I hope he will tell me.
Thanks, i really appreciate your help.

asacomm
01-26-2010, 04:04 AM
Hallo Boa tarde Mauro,

The following photo shows the banana that I harvested last automn.
This banana was potted in 60 littre plastic container placed outside in the
open field throughout the year including winter time. It also got down to
minus 2 deg.C a coule of times. But the banana went through and bore
very delicous bananas.
The friends on this forum identified it would most probally Namwah's sub-
group "Pisang Awak".

The name of the banana of the photo that I posted this morning is totally
unknown although some identifier guesses as "Cardaba".
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=23217&size=1

Mauro Gibo
01-26-2010, 04:22 AM
Mauro,

I was thinking about your climate and it's not too different from southern Georgia here in the USA. You can see from the photos after some hard freezes the bananas suffered some fried leaves but they came back in the spring/summer. I think your disappointments have more to do with variety.

http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/26731/1/36010048.pdf

JeffFurther research is necessary to determine
the plants with suffi cient cold hardiness and the
cultivars suited for Annual Cropping Production
(ACP) under Georgia weather conditions. Theseimportant studies have not been carried out due to
lack of funding. What a pity!

Mauro Gibo
01-26-2010, 04:28 AM
Hallo Boa tarde Mauro,

The following photo shows the banana that I harvested last automn.
This banana was potted in 60 littre plastic container placed outside in the
open field throughout the year including winter time. It also got down to
minus 2 deg.C a coule of times. But the banana went through and bore
very delicous bananas.
The friends on this forum identified it would most probally Namwah's sub-
group "Pisang Awak".

The name of the banana of the photo that I posted this morning is totally
unknown although some identifier guesses as "Cardaba".
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=23217&size=1Thank you for the information Asacomm. Could you tell me where you got it?
I don't think there are so many kinds of edible bananas here in Japan.
How did you get hold of this specimen?

jeffreyp
01-26-2010, 08:31 AM
Surprisingly southern turkey has commercial banana production but the bananas grown are used mostly within turkey and are not exported. I heard the recent preference in Turkey was for the supermarket banana or Gran Nain and less favored is the locally grown variety. I had shipped some tissue cultured gran nain to a grower and they are doing fine in that climate. They finally reached maturity back 5-6 years ago and I heard the locals love them. Hopefully they will continue to use the divisions off of the mature gran nain plants and increase even further production with that variety. But see even in countries that produce bananas selection is often limited apparently as it is in Japan.

asacomm
01-26-2010, 06:07 PM
Thank you for the information Asacomm. Could you tell me where you got it?
I don't think there are so many kinds of edible bananas here in Japan.
How did you get hold of this specimen?

Bon dia Mauro, como esta?

I found these two varieties quite incidentally.
The one that they say it could be "Cardaba" was found in checking websites
on banana. A man in Miyazaki posted a thread telling behind his house there
had long been a banana grove that produced very delicious bananas every
year. Then I got a pup from him.

The other one that would be "Pisang Awak" was found on the way of my
driving. The banana grove was left half wild, but was fruiting. And I got a pup
from the landowner. That was a quite coincidence.
The landlowner told me that the banana grove had been there for some 60
years and he harvested fruits almost every year.

Esta clar?

Mauro Gibo
01-26-2010, 06:15 PM
Surprisingly southern turkey has commercial banana production but the bananas grown are used mostly within turkey and are not exported. I heard the recent preference in Turkey was for the supermarket banana or Gran Nain and less favored is the locally grown variety. I had shipped some tissue cultured gran nain to a grower and they are doing fine in that climate. They finally reached maturity back 5-6 years ago and I heard the locals love them. Hopefully they will continue to use the divisions off of the mature gran nain plants and increase even further production with that variety. But see even in countries that produce bananas selection is often limited apparently as it is in Japan.Jeff, please check this site about Anamur you can see some pictures of bananas grown there.

Mauro Gibo
01-26-2010, 06:16 PM
Jeff, please check this site about Anamur you can see some pictures of bananas grown there.Anamur Turkey Photo Gallery by Dick Osseman at pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com/dosseman/anamur)

jeffreyp
01-26-2010, 06:56 PM
I don't know what the variety it is they grow in turkey but they do grow alot of them. Though I have been told the Turks prefer the commercial banana varieties over the locally grown ones. I hope one day the gran nain plants I shipped over there are doing well and have already produced fruit.

Mauro Gibo
02-05-2010, 07:26 PM
Maybe some growth factors or something similar is shared when two corms are fused together?Since plants are rooted and not able to move about they are able to cultivate a continuous and plastic developmental system and are able to adapt to an assortment of environmental surrounding. Because of the plant’s unique features there are several notable benefits to studying plant stem cells. First, the plants cells are fixed into the cell wall making it easy to trace the pattern of cell division during the development of the cell. Second, plants have an adjustable developmental system which allows them to morph to their existing environment. This makes it easy to the specialized parts and functions of a plant. With biochemical change of many genes in stem cell maintenance death in the embryonic stage of cell development does not occur, therefore genetic approaches can be used to study stem cells.

Stem cell research in humans raises many ethical issues, but with plants these issues do not prevail. Cloning has been happening for decades with plants and the assistance of humans. Many people “clone” plants in their gardens and for scientist they can do the same in a laboratory. This is an advantage for the science industry in observing plant stem cells. Data can be collected and studied in different point of view

Mauro Gibo
02-05-2010, 07:34 PM
I think this thread is very interesting. I don't feel I need t go out and play god, but I think if plants fuse together which can happen they may share things that could possibly help or hinder the other plant :^) There's not 100's of types of banana's for no reason ...In 1902, an Austrian botanist Gottlieb Haberlandt introduced Totipotency to describe the plasticity of plant cells and it’s the ability for cells to divide into many types of cells to produce an entire organism. The developmental plasticity of plant cells are well-known in laboratory gardens, where they are cultivated and harvested. Parts of plants such as leaves, stems, and roots are cut and put into soil or water. After a while, new shoots and roots begin to develop from the freshly cut plant (also known as grafting).

In 1958, Titopotency was first demonstrated using carrot cells. Fully differentiated carrot cells were extracted and put together to form an entirely new organism. Basically the carrot was cloned.

The process included creating clones from differentiated cells that can be divided into two stages: dedifferentiation and redifferentiation. Phytohormones (plant hormones), auxin and cytokinin play a key role in facilitating cellular recombination. Auxin, a tryptophan derivative, and cytokinin, a purine derivative, works counteractively to produce the perfect the perfect environment for differentiated cells. During incubation, high concentrations of auxin and cytokinin help the dedifferentiate cells to clump into a mass called a callus. The Callus is maintained in a tissue culture, where totipotency and differentiation responds to the hormone levels y shoots and roots. Redifferentiation occurs when individual cells become differentiated and are dispatched to different areas. As they embark to their respective positions, they become individuals based on their specific tasks. When they reach the assigned area, they begin the process of constructing the new organism.

sunfish
02-05-2010, 08:18 PM
Maybe novisyatria should try grafting in tissue culture

damaclese
02-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Wow, Jeffreyp! That's good information. I will read it at least a hundred times so I can apply it to my orchard. Sometimes I felt kinda stupid for trying to grow bananas here, but now I feel more confident. I felt very discouraged when I lost the pups my other brother brought from Brazil. My second brother brought me pups of 6 different varieties popular in Brazil and I lost all of them in the first winter about 6 years ago. At present the only edible varieties I have is the Raja Puri and the Okinawan banana which I call Lady Finger. If you have more information, please let me know. My real aim is to harvest fresh bananas. I didn't know our friend from Shizuoka had been successful already. I just don't know the type of banana he has. I hope he will tell me.
Thanks, i really appreciate your help.

Muro i live in the midal of the Mohove desert people think im nuts for growing bananas and i live at 3000ft elavation in the seara Navada moutains and my Bananas are thriving well they dont grow as well as they would in a more tropical invorment but they do pretty well im sure i will get fruit this year there are viriatys out that that gow in colder climets some of them are unknown to us but there out there having mutated form origanly cold sesativ stock whats you climet zone again mabe some one here on the org has some stock that has provin to be cold hardy my temps whent in the the high 20 this year and my Blue javas are already throwing new leafs just stlitly growing alsow my Enset M has just produced a big new leaf and the night time teps are now 45ish keep us posted the longer we all grow viriatys in marganal ereas the more likly that a hybred with new hardenss will come in to exsistent

Jack Daw
02-07-2010, 02:01 PM
Maybe novisyatria should try grafting in tissue culture
That's a sound idea, plants might be prone to accept grafts much more easily under such conditions.

sunfish
02-07-2010, 02:14 PM
That's a sound idea, plants might be prone to accept grafts much more easily under such conditions.

That was my thought.If it's going to work it seems this would be the best way.

Mauro Gibo
02-08-2010, 06:42 AM
Muro i live in the midal of the Mohove desert people think im nuts for growing bananas and i live at 3000ft elavation in the seara Navada moutains and my Bananas are thriving well they dont grow as well as they would in a more tropical invorment but they do pretty well im sure i will get fruit this year there are viriatys out that that gow in colder climets some of them are unknown to us but there out there having mutated form origanly cold sesativ stock whats you climet zone again mabe some one here on the org has some stock that has provin to be cold hardy my temps whent in the the high 20 this year and my Blue javas are already throwing new leafs just stlitly growing alsow my Enset M has just produced a big new leaf and the night time teps are now 45ish keep us posted the longer we all grow viriatys in marganal ereas the more likly that a hybred with new hardenss will come in to exsistentMy climate zone is 9a.

novisyatria
02-08-2010, 08:52 AM
That's a sound idea, plants might be prone to accept grafts much more easily under such conditions.

technically yes we can grafting in vitro, but i am a little busy now for propagating heheh. maybe later.

Mauro Gibo
02-15-2010, 05:05 PM
Muro i live in the midal of the Mohove desert people think im nuts for growing bananas and i live at 3000ft elavation in the seara Navada moutains and my Bananas are thriving well they dont grow as well as they would in a more tropical invorment but they do pretty well im sure i will get fruit this year there are viriatys out that that gow in colder climets some of them are unknown to us but there out there having mutated form origanly cold sesativ stock whats you climet zone again mabe some one here on the org has some stock that has provin to be cold hardy my temps whent in the the high 20 this year and my Blue javas are already throwing new leafs just stlitly growing alsow my Enset M has just produced a big new leaf and the night time teps are now 45ish keep us posted the longer we all grow viriatys in marganal ereas the more likly that a hybred with new hardenss will come in to exsistentcomment:
it is early to generalise
by mabrouk el-sharkawy

[Comment posted 2010-02-11 13:35:12]

Tolerance or resistance to multiple environmental stresses is a complex phenomenon and it is too early to generalize that a set of protein molecules or a set of genes can integrate a ONE response for all aspects of stresses. Under field conditions, higher plants respond to various environmental factors singly or in combination via a set of phenotypic traits.

Mauro Gibo
02-15-2010, 05:21 PM
technically yes we can grafting in vitro, but i am a little busy now for propagating heheh. maybe later.Plant biotech for food and environment | SciVee (http://www.scivee.tv/node/10853)

That was my thought.If it's going to work it seems this would be the best way.Plant biotech for food and environment | SciVee (http://www.scivee.tv/node/10853)

comment:
it is early to generalise
by mabrouk el-sharkawy

[Comment posted 2010-02-11 13:35:12]

Tolerance or resistance to multiple environmental stresses is a complex phenomenon and it is too early to generalize that a set of protein molecules or a set of genes can integrate a ONE response for all aspects of stresses. Under field conditions, higher plants respond to various environmental factors singly or in combination via a set of phenotypic traits.Secrets of Plant Genomes Revealed! | SciVee (http://www.scivee.tv/node/3010)

Jack Daw
06-11-2010, 07:11 AM
So how are the naners, Mauro? Did they survive the winter?

Mauro Gibo
06-11-2010, 08:05 AM
So how are the naners, Mauro? Did they survive the winter? Only the grafted pups did. The tall ones died around the end of March. The winter is too long for them to bear. I didn't reach success, yet. I guess I have to try again. I still wonder why pups survive the winter and the adults, mature plants don't.

Mauro Gibo
09-15-2010, 04:11 AM
:woohoonaner:

:goteam:

:lurk:http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhum

Mauro Gibo
09-15-2010, 04:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhumYouTube - Tropical fruits grown in Okinawa.wmv.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS3-Lr6qgFA)

Mauro Gibo
04-29-2011, 05:18 AM
Hi, Scot !
I haven't heard from you lately. How are you? Here is some information about plants:
The fact that scientists now recognize that plants have an immune system is the result of pioneering work by Paul Schulze-Lefert, a director of the Plant Breeding Institute for eight years. Initially, plants were believed to have inflexible and underdeveloped defense systems, but in a series of publications, Schulze-Lefert described the molecular foundations of sophisticated protection mechanisms. While they have neither circulation nor specialized immune cells, plants do have a dual radar system in each cell, one external and one internal. The external radar consists of a series of receptors. When one of these recognizes a pathogen, it sets off an alarm that triggers a defensive response. If the pathogen still manages to penetrate into the cell, it comes up against a second line of defense. If the relevant sensor is triggered the cell undergoes apoptosis, as a way of protecting the rest of the plant. "These two radar screens are a highly dynamic system based on resistance genes that constantly develop in the race against pests," says Schulze-Lefert. "The fact that whole crops are sometimes destroyed by pathogens has to do with the constraints placed on this co-evolutionary process ever since the pool of resistance genes started being restricted by breeding and vegetative reproduction. Our job is to give the plants new resistance genes, ideally combinations of them."I have trying to prove that the impossible can be done grafting mature banana pups and get a new crossbred variety.http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=42265&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=42265)

Mauro Gibo
07-19-2012, 06:11 PM
Maybe some growth factors or something similar is shared when two corms are fused together? Hi Jeffrey, Long time no see! By the way, I'm still alive and tempering with my banana plants. The weather over here in mainland Japan is too cold for my experiments so I moved my plants to a warmer climate, Okinawa. Now the cold weather will not kill my plants 'cause the climate is Okinawa is subtropical and we grow bananas all year round. I have grafted citrus fruits producing hybrids, so the root stock can affect the scion for sure, it's a fact! I have calamansi lemons producing hybrids right here in my orchard. My grafted bananas survived the winter but are not producing fruits, yet. LOL!:2722::2722:

Mauro Gibo
07-19-2012, 06:14 PM
So how are the naners, Mauro? Did they survive the winter? Hi Jack, Myy bananas survived the winter but are not producing fruits, yet!

dsws
12-22-2012, 10:08 AM
Interesting. Sounds to me like preliminary evidence of grafting. I would like to see dug-up corms of grafted plants, though, to see that they really have grown together and healed over the outside of the junction the way a cut would heal on a single corm.

How does a cut heal on a single corm, by the way? I've seen video of cutting off pups, and of transplanting whole plants, where people chop away pretty casually and then the plant is growing just fine in the next scene. So I know they heal well. But I've never seen one where they dig up a recently-cut corm to show what the healing cut looks like. Ideally, someone would transplant a pup every few days until the first one is well recovered from being cut, and then dig them all up at once to get a picture of the stages of recovery.

Jessedian
09-24-2014, 07:32 AM
I'm curious to know the updates :)

Mauro Gibo
10-01-2014, 09:47 PM
I'm curious to know the updates :) Hi Jesse, here is a report of what I've been doing lately. Let me begin with my grafting, if I may call it grafting, for the skeptical people, I cut the corm of a Basjoo pup and another corm of a Raja Puri pup and tied them together. After they grew together sharing the same space of course, I cut the Raja Puri pup and didn't let it grow. My aim was to make the Basjoo pup suck cells from the Raja's corm or bulb. After around 4 months, the winter came and the Raja Puri corm probably died because it never grew up again when the spring came, while the Basjoo went into dormancy during the winter and continued its growth in the spring. In the third year the Basjoo bore seeded fruits and I planted them this spring. Out of about 1000 seeds around 15 seeds germinated. 6 seedlings died but 9 seedlings are growing vigorously. All the 9 seedlings have different characteristics, such as the shape of the leaves and collor. If they are hybrids of Basjoo and Raja Puri I don't know. If they are 100% M. Basjoo or not I also don't know. I have to wait for this new generation of plants to bear fruits to be able to identify them. Some of the plants seem to have the leaves similar to the Raja Puri and some seem to be just like the Basjoo. As you all know, in the plant kingdom amazing things happen, mutants occur in the wild because some insects or termites trick the plant to transform. I don't know of anyone having collected Basjoo viable seeds. In the past I have harvested seeds from Basjoo plants but they never germinated. Only the grafted Basjoo produced viable seeds in my 15-year-old garden. I have about 7 mats of Basjoo and the bananas that are not pollinated fall down when young and inmature. I will continue grafting my Basjoo Plants because I want to grow a variety that will resist the cold. Up to now I don't have any edible banana that will resist my climate. I will continue studying the abnormalities of nature and I have confidence that I will get good results although many botanists do not approve my experiments. So long for now and Best Wishes to all the members of the forum.

Worm_Farmer
10-04-2014, 05:31 PM
I approve!

asacomm
10-04-2014, 06:14 PM
Hello Mauro,

I still don't approve your "Grafting", but I will keep my eyes with much interests
on your experiments and results.

If you like it, I wlcome your mail or message either in English or Japanese
as I live in Shizuoka City.

Mauro Gibo
10-04-2014, 11:12 PM
Hello Mauro,

I still don't approve your "Grafting", but I will keep my eyes with much interests
on your experiments and results.

If you like it, I wlcome your mail or message either in English or Japanese
as I live in Shizuoka City. Thank you Asacomm. I appreciate your friendship. We have something in common, we live in the same country and we are banana enthusiasts. Your climate is warmer than mine, so you have a better chance of growing edible bananas. As my furusato, home town is Okinawa I don't have any need to do any crazy experiments, because we can grow any kind of bananas in the subtropical climate of Okinawa but living here in Mie Prefecture and encounter the M. Basjoo which is very cold resistant made me curious about the behavior of the banana plants, and find a way to crossbreed them. What I am doing is something unbelievable, and doesn't deserve any credit, but still there is something in my mind that tells me that if I keep trying I will get somewhere. I already have 9 plants of a new generation of Basjoo growing marvelously and that is enough to satisfy my ambitions for the moment. I will keep you informed about my experiments. For myself it is really rewarding to have friends in the forum. Best Wishes, Mauro

Mauro Gibo
10-05-2014, 12:46 AM
I approve! Thank you, Worm_farmer. I think you are a person who believes in the wonders of Mother Nature. I didn't get this idea of "Grafting the banana plant" out of thin air. A Brazilian guy told me his father used to do it in his farm, so I decided to try it. If you see a smoke, there should be a fire somewhere, so I decided to graft banana plants myself. I didn't find any reason for this Brazilian guy to lie to me since he was my friend. After I posted my grafting in the forum I felt pretty stupid, but there was no way to turn back. I know myself and I'm a purdy hardheaded mule. There should be some truth in this "grafting thing", so I kept experimenting. I still don't have concrete proof of the possibilty of grafting banana plants, but I will continue my experiments as long as it takes. I hate to be a failure. Your approval is a very energetic support and encouragement to my efforts. I appreciate it. Best Wishes, Mauro

asacomm
10-05-2014, 03:25 AM
Thank you Asacomm. I appreciate your friendship. We have something in common, we live in the same country and we are banana enthusiasts. Your climate is warmer than mine, so you have a better chance of growing edible bananas. As my furusato, home town is Okinawa I don't have any need to do any crazy experiments, because we can grow any kind of bananas in the subtropical climate of Okinawa but living here in Mie Prefecture and encounter the M. Basjoo which is very cold resistant made me curious about the behavior of the banana plants, and find a way to crossbreed them. What I am doing is something unbelievable, and doesn't deserve any credit, but still there is something in my mind that tells me that if I keep trying I will get somewhere. I already have 9 plants of a new generation of Basjoo growing marvelously and that is enough to satisfy my ambitions for the moment. I will keep you informed about my experiments. For myself it is really rewarding to have friends in the forum. Best Wishes, Mauro

Hello Mauro,

Thank you for your quick comments.

To be very frank with you, I find much hesitations to approve your so called "Grafting" banana
to be a way to crossbreed banana species. If such could be possible, there would not have been
agonies to find cold resistant bananas, and the world is filled up with cold hardy bananas anywhere.
The reality is, however, such has not been happend. But to tell the truth, I have been paying much
attention and respect to your experiments.

Now, for your information, I introduce you what I succeeded overwintering and harvest here
in Shizuoka City without any anticold protections.

1. So called "Miyazaki Banana" which could be a variety of vegetable banana
  that have been planted half wildly for a long time in Miyazaki and Kagoshima areas.
2. A kind of local banana that has been secredly grown here inShizuoka area
for considerable long time. That is said to be transplanted by some sailer
from the Philippines and is considered to be a variety of Psang Awak.

The bananas overwintered by some protections on the pstems under the eaves are California Gold,
Hajaray, Dwf Orinoco, Ice Cream etc.

If you like to get more informations, I am pleased to do so.

Mauro Gibo
10-05-2014, 04:51 AM
Hello Mauro,

Thank you for your quick comments.

To be very frank with you, I find much hesitations to approve your so called "Grafting" banana
to be a way to crossbreed banana species. If such could be possible, there would not have been
agonies to find cold resistant bananas, and the world is filled up with cold hardy bananas anywhere.
The reality is, however, such has not been happend. But to tell the truth, I have been paying much
attention and respect to your experiments.

Now, for your information, I introduce you what I succeeded overwintering and harvest here
in Shizuoka City without any anticold protections.

1. So called "Miyazaki Banana" which could be a variety of vegetable banana
  that have been planted half widely for a long time in Miyazaki and Kagoshima areas.
2. A kind of local banana that has been secredly grown here inShizuoka area
for considerable long time. That is said to be transplanted by some sailer
from the Philippines and is considered to be a variety of Psang Awak.

The bananas overwintered by some protections on the pstems under the eaves are California Gold,
Hajaray, Dwf Orinoco, Ice Cream etc.

If you like to get more informations, I am pleased to do so.Thank you for your information Mr. Asacomm. I have been living in Japan for 47 years and this is the first time I hear about the Miyazaki Banana. I know Miyazaki and Kagoshima Prefecture and I'm aware that it snows there. Sometimes, in the winter it gets colder than Mie, Prefecture, where I live. I really would like to get my hands in a Miyazaki Banana pup. Do you know if it is possible? Do you know anyone who is growing this precious banana? In my area no one grows bananas. Maybe because it gets too big and people don't have much space like I do. I am growing an Atlantic forest here in Mie, by my own with seeds of plants of the Atlantic Coast of South America, especially with Brazilian Pines, Araucaria Angustifolia, which produces edible seeds and the Chilean palms. I don't have any contact with banana enthusiasts here in Japan. The types of bananas you mentioned which are cold hardy, We don't have in Okinawa. Several years ago my brother brought me pups of about 5 or 6 types of famous bananas grown in Brazil but they did not survive the winter, that's why I started my experiments. Here is a video I made in the early spring few years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhIryzP2-oY I hope you like it. I will post updates of my New Basjoo in the near future. Once again thank you for your information. Bye!

asacomm
10-05-2014, 06:35 PM
Thank you for your information Mr. Asacomm. I have been living in Japan for 47 years and this is the first time I hear about the Miyazaki Banana. I know Miyazaki and Kagoshima Prefecture and I'm aware that it snows there. Sometimes, in the winter it gets colder than Mie, Prefecture, where I live. I really would like to get my hands in a Miyazaki Banana pup. Do you know if it is possible? Do you know anyone who is growing this precious banana? In my area no one grows bananas. Maybe because it gets too big and people don't have much space like I do. I am growing an Atlantic forest here in Mie, by my own with seeds of plants of the Atlantic Coast of South America, especially with Brazilian Pines, Araucaria Angustifolia, which produces edible seeds and the Chilean palms. I don't have any contact with banana enthusiasts here in Japan. The types of bananas you mentioned which are cold hardy, We don't have in Okinawa. Several years ago my brother brought me pups of about 5 or 6 types of famous bananas grown in Brazil but they did not survive the winter, that's why I started my experiments. Here is a video I made in the early spring few years ago. I hope you like it. I will post updates of my New Basjoo in the near future. Once again thank you for your information. Bye!

Hi Mauro,
Thank you for your response. First of all, I didn't know that you have been in japan
almost for 47 years. I also have seen your several videos on the net.

We have a considerable wide net society in japan on banana through blogs and internet.
So why don't you try it?

Regarding the "Miyazaki Banana", if you search it on the net, you will be able
to find what it is and probably who grows it.
Of course I grow it , so if there will be a good sucker some time next year, I will let you know
when the time comes.

Today it is a horrible day of the typhoon No.18, but I dare say "Good Day and Good Luck".

asacomm

Worm_Farmer
10-09-2014, 08:23 PM
I have heard storys (not so much with banans) People will mist their seeds with a Chemical. Most of the seeds will not bloom. But the ones that do will make a Second gen of a much better plant. Maybe if the corms graft, it will at lease cause some type of mutation. If you enjoy what you are doing I always suggest you keep doing it.

cincinnana
10-11-2014, 06:25 PM
.....Ok....... I have seen the videos. AWESOME....
I am convinced there is something in the water in your area. You are good....
Thank you....Your the real deal in the area.:08:
Keep it up.
I want to know what was in the sauce that you dipped the wild boar in.....
From the look on your face it was good.....
Sorry my Spanish is not that refined........I did not understand what you said.

Mauro Gibo
10-11-2014, 10:29 PM
.....Ok....... I have seen the videos. AWESOME....
I am convinced there is something in the water in your area. You are good....
Thank you....Your the real deal in the area.:08:
Keep it up.
I want to know what was in the sauce that you dipped the wild boar in.....
From the look on your face it was good.....
Sorry my Spanish is not that refined........I did not understand what you said. Thank you for your comments and also taking your time to watch my videos Cincinnana. The sauce I made for the wild boar roasted meat was Rangpur Lemon juice, with a little bit of salt and and red hot pepper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangpur_(fruit) I learned this sauce recipe to eat pork in Hanoi, Vietnam. We use the Rangpur lemon in Brazil as stock for grafting all kinds of citrus fruits because it is very strong and grows fast. I think you will be able to grow it in your area since it is amazingly cold resistant. If you plant this lemon from seeds it will take about 4~5 years to bear fruits while other lemons will take about 9 years. If you want seeds I can mail them to you. The Vietnamese people also use the leaves as seasoning to cook many dishes. Since gardening is my passion I will keep on growing all kinds of plants in my area, just like you. Once again, thank you and Best Wishes, Mauro
P.S. I think you are a fantastic Green Thumb!

Mauro Gibo
10-22-2015, 09:50 PM
Thank you for your information Mr. Asacomm. I have been living in Japan for 47 years and this is the first time I hear about the Miyazaki Banana. I know Miyazaki and Kagoshima Prefecture and I'm aware that it snows there. Sometimes, in the winter it gets colder than Mie, Prefecture, where I live. I really would like to get my hands in a Miyazaki Banana pup. Do you know if it is possible? Do you know anyone who is growing this precious banana? In my area no one grows bananas. Maybe because it gets too big and people don't have much space like I do. I am growing an Atlantic forest here in Mie, by my own with seeds of plants of the Atlantic Coast of South America, especially with Brazilian Pines, Araucaria Angustifolia, which produces edible seeds and the Chilean palms. I don't have any contact with banana enthusiasts here in Japan. The types of bananas you mentioned which are cold hardy, We don't have in Okinawa. Several years ago my brother brought me pups of about 5 or 6 types of famous bananas grown in Brazil but they did not survive the winter, that's why I started my experiments. Here is a video I made in the early spring few years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhIryzP2-oY I hope you like it. I will post updates of my New Basjoo in the near future. Once again thank you for your information. Bye! New video of Basjoo fruits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IM4RPXNHb0