View Full Version : Lighting for the winter
anthony340
10-04-2008, 01:50 PM
The weather is becoming much colder and not much sunlight. So, I'm continuing to grow my Dwarf Cavendish inside the home. What I need to know is what type of inside lighting should I use. Any other suggestions for winter growing would be appreciated.
Thank you
chong
10-04-2008, 02:11 PM
Best one to use is the T5 Fluorescent lighting for High Bay or HO applications. The light output of these lamps stays relatively flat throughout 95% of its life. They have the same output as HIDs lamps, but HIDs' output tapers down after 50% of it life. T5 Fluorescent lamps are available in "Sunlight", as well as, the usual warm and cool white.
chong
10-04-2008, 04:40 PM
Here is a link to an article, from Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) magazine, on T5 Fluorescent lighting and how they compare with other types of lighting, with a graph showing the efficacies of various lamp types over their lifetimes.
The T5 Fluorescent Lamp: Coming on Strong (http://ecmweb.com/ops/electric_fluorescent_lamp_coming/)
chong
10-04-2008, 05:39 PM
Here are other links showing a comparison of lighting outputs between T5HO and Metal Halides, with some pricing for 2-lamp and 4-lamp fixtures, with the lamps included. Need to consider the $300 minimum purchase and the shipping costs from PA. So, check with your local lighting stores for pricing and compare.
The T5 Fluorescent Lamp: Coming on Strong (http://ecmweb.com/ops/electric_fluorescent_lamp_coming/)
http://www.seattle.gov/light/conserve/business/cv4_t5hO.pdf
edd82
10-13-2008, 07:05 AM
Try an "Envirolite". They come in versions from 125 watt to 200 watt bulbs and I think that you can get 400w system with 2 bulbs housed under one shade. They're much cheaper than HID's but they don't give quite as much light (lumens).
D_&_T
10-13-2008, 10:29 AM
Here is place I have ordered from before!
e-conolight Official Home Page (http://e-conolight.com/Product/EFamily.asp)
JCDerrick
10-13-2008, 11:13 AM
I use two 1000W MH systems that I purchased last year - but the above makes me curious. Would I benefit from possibly switching out my MH system in a few years to these new lights, or can they compete with the 1000W systems? I noticed they typically only compare these new lights to the 400W halides.
D_&_T
10-13-2008, 11:56 AM
What type of 1000W MH bulb? As wattage is not all you look at in bulbs.
JCDerrick
10-13-2008, 01:11 PM
7000K veg growth bulb.
D_&_T
10-13-2008, 03:32 PM
ok, we have been using mostly fluorescent bulbs compact and linear.
JCDerrick
10-13-2008, 03:50 PM
Here's another comparison image I found interesting last year. I think for one 1000W bulb I'd need 25 of the T5HO; or in my case 50 since I run two 1000W systems.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13865&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13865)
I get about 8x8 grow area per light, with 10x10 supplemental - give or take with overlap. So I have about a 16x8 solid grow area.
And if the below chart is correct, I could probably just purchase 5000-6000 bulbs in the future.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13866 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13865)
I'll admit some of the K value stuff, etc is over my head at this point still.
JCDerrick
10-13-2008, 04:07 PM
Here's an example of where I could use some translation to common-speak. Like the PAR ratings? And I'm still fuzzy on the "initial lumens" thing too. Or maybe I've just forgotten since doing all my homework last year - can anyone clarify that?
SolarMax Vegetative 400 & 1000 Watt MH bulbs produce less initial lumens than other bulbs and have one of the highest PAR ratings of all Metal Halides available. The SolarMax Veg Metal Halide bulb also produces a better spectrum than the SunMaster Cool Deluxe at 7200°K which means more blue light. SolarMax bulbs are also tubular in shape, allowing them to fit in most reflectors.
These are the bulbs I use:
Buy 1000W SolarMax 7200K Metal Halide Lamps Here! (http://www.specialty-lights.com/solarmax-1000-veg.html)
Edit: I should have searched more on that same site. Here's an FAQ that explains a lot of the terminology.
PAR Watts, Spectral Distribution & Kelvin Temp. (http://www.specialty-lights.com/plant-grow-faq6.html)
D_&_T
10-13-2008, 04:40 PM
If I understand right "initial lumens" is the first use or beginning life of bulb, the other is what it puts out over the avg. life of bulb(mean). This is why they adjust the bulbs on tanning beds and warn (sunburn)when changing bulbs if they just turn it on and never adjust, just let bulbs run out their life! Some bulbs depending on ballast have a steady burn or taper off in lumens the more they are used(bulb life).
please educate me if wrong!!
Patty in Wisc
10-14-2008, 07:44 PM
Does this mean I need xtra lighting on my tree? One will be in a cool sunroom (ave 50-55F) & getting some sunlight, & the other will be in 68F room with some sun from south facing window. The one in sunroom will be semi dormant because of coolness so won't need a lot of sun.
I'm worried now about the one in room @ 68*. It will see only 3-4 hours of sun each day. More lighting? Thanks.
damaclese
10-15-2008, 07:50 AM
i ues the wide spectrum T5 florecents there vary cheap only 56wats iv been uesing them for about a year now and most of my plants have done spectaculerly under them as a mater of fact if had to move them up a bit as they were to intens for some of my more shade lovong plants my Ae Ae has never been outside and has only been grown under theas lights its one of my fastes growing Bananas. you can get realy nuts with lighting but realy for the bucks the plane old T5 flroecent grow lights are the best value in my opinan and there the most ecanomical to run and in thes times of high energy cost one has to be practical most plants are vary adaptibal any way they dont know the difrince betwen t5 and HID or what ever you are uesing however they do know the difrince betwen hot light and cold light and most dont like the hot lights so agen T5 wich are vary cool you can tuch them with you hand and not get burnt
JCDerrick
10-15-2008, 08:17 AM
Halides definitely are expensive, I can't argue there. They do the job as advertised, but their upfront cost and power costs are incredible. To give anyone considering them an idea of what you're investment would be. The 1000W lights run close to $100 (for a good bulb); smaller Watt systems are cheaper for the blubs usually. The ballast is what you'll pay the big bucks for. I usually try and find an all-in-one kit where you get the light, hood, ballast, etc in a single package for a good price. Both of mine were right at $400 each; and that was before ever plugging them in. When looking at a hood, get one with a glass shield. MH bulbs are apparently notorious for exploding and you don't want that to be an issue if you're under it - obviously. And supposdely MH bulbs are also only good for about a year of continuous use. After that they loose some of their output (though it's not obvious to the naked eye) and the power costs stays the same for only a portion of the same quality light you had originally. Now whether that is true or just a marketing scheme to sell bulbs, no idea - I guess I'll be deciding that myself next year.
Total cost to run them a month at $0.10 per kilowatt hour (for about 14 hours) is right around $43 a month, per light. So $86 per month total.
But they do the job and it gives me a large growing area with a lot of light for some high light plants (palms, BOP, Travelers Palm, etc).
If I had to do it all over again I'd just buy a house with more windows, LOL
D_&_T
10-18-2008, 09:23 PM
Here is a PDF I found thought some might like to read, it is from Philips! Might take little time to load depending on your connection speed!!
jason
10-19-2008, 12:22 AM
Metal halide are far more superior than any other light,They do how ever cost a little bit more on your electric bill but not as much as you would think,,I personally use 2-400 watt metal halide and 4-100 watt compact fluorecents in my garage to winter my plants over,,my electric bill goes up about $40 in the winter months to run these light plus 2- box fans to reinsure good air circulation,,Lights are ran about 10-12 hours a day depending apon when I turn them off and on,,,still need to get a timer for the lights,so it is not such a pain to turn the lights all on,,oh,,and the box fans run 24/7 ,and the plants get misted every other day to keep the humidity up and helps a little bit with the whole spider mite thing.... I pre-spray everything with Avid ,before it goes in the garage for the winter.Avid is a spray just for spider mites ,,works very very well,but is kinda ,,well VERY exspensive!!!
damaclese
10-19-2008, 08:37 AM
every one has such good points thanks for all the info id have to gues on the cost of the t5 i never realy notest much increas as when i started uesing them the temps started going up outside is the Ac was running more and more but id have to say looking at the KWH ratings im paying mabey 5$ a month more on my bill thats just a gues and power here is farly cheep conpaird to the rest of the contry (arnt casinos grand they pay for every thing)
jeffreyp
11-19-2008, 10:07 AM
Years ago when I was living in Connecticut I grew banana plants in the basement. The ceiling was high and I hung normal fluorescent shop lights over the containers of banana plants. Over the course of the winter they grew just fine, and got to a large size by spring. I gave them maybe 12-14 hours of light and I think the biggest problem I encountered was spider mites. I found a very effective treatment - it was concern brand insecticidal soap spray. Just about every other brand of spray I tried was inneffective.
:waving:
Jeff
jason
11-19-2008, 11:45 PM
Best one to use is the T5 Fluorescent lighting for High Bay or HO applications. The light output of these lamps stays relatively flat throughout 95% of its life. They have the same output as HIDs lamps, but HIDs' output tapers down after 50% of it life. T5 Fluorescent lamps are available in "Sunlight", as well as, the usual warm and cool white.
Sorry but i would have to not agree with t5 having the same output as metal halides,,the t5 bulbs have a much lower PAR than the metal halides bulbs do,,metal halides emmit a much more intense and brighter light spectrum than t5 bulbs do,,,I just know alot about this subject due to having saltwater coral tanks for almost 21 years now..and as we all know saltwater people always know their crap when it comes to lights!! Take care-Jason.:03: and the metal halides really dont per say tapper off that much their kelvin changes over time with the age of the bulb,,so lets say you bought a 6500 kelvin bulb and burnt it for one year ,,after that one year that kelvin drops,,and the light emmits more of the red spectrum,,so it could be like 4700-5200 kelvin now that its been used for so long,,after about 9 months I notice the bulbs spectrum is alot different than when i first had the bulb when new,,plus I always know when to change the bulbs cause i start getting in my tank alot of undesirable algae!!
JCDerrick
11-20-2008, 12:01 AM
A lot of the Fluorescent lighting I've seen causes plants to stretch. My halides don't cause any reaching/stretching for the light and they lights are 4-6' above the plants - a lot of them. I still think Halides, while expensive, are the best way to keep plants alive and happy indoors. I would only use Fluorescent if I had another light source to supplement the fixture.
In layman's terms, and correct me if I'm wrong:
The K value is how close the light is to natural sunlight. I think 6000K is close to normal sunlight (judging by the chart on the previous page). So it's like the quality of the light.
I think the Wattage and PAR sort of go hand in hand. Wattage is like the "power" of the light. The output of the light is always a good deal less than what it actually uses to run the light.
The PAR value is the "fuel" of the light; at least in terms of being a plant. Like food.
Again, this page is good at explaining it in detail:
PAR Watts, Spectral Distribution & Kelvin Temp. (http://www.specialty-lights.com/plant-grow-faq6.html)
jason
11-20-2008, 12:33 AM
[QUOTE=JCDerrick;57413]A lot of the Fluorescent lighting I've seen causes plants to stretch. My halides don't cause any reaching/stretching for the light and they lights are 4-6' above the plants - a lot of them. I still think Halides, while expensive, are the best way to keep plants alive and happy indoors. I would only use Fluorescent if I had another light source to supplement the fixture.
In layman's terms, and correct me if I'm wrong:
The K value is how close the light is to natural sunlight. I think 6000K is close to normal sunlight (judging by the chart on the previous page). So it's like the quality of the light.
I think the Wattage and PAR sort of go hand in hand. Wattage is like the "power" of the light. The output of the light is always a good deal less than what it actually uses to run the light.
The PAR value is the "fuel" of the light; at least in terms of being a plant. Like food.
The higher the CRI is of the bulb the closer it is to the suns natural spectrum Cri stands for color rendering index with 100 percent being the sun and the K stands for kevin ,,like a bulb that says 2100 wich would be like you normal srew in incandescent bulbs that you put in your home fixtures the higher the number in kelvin the more blue spectrum a bulb emmits and the suns kelvin rating in summer is in the 5500-6400 kelvin depending on air polution cloudy day..... certain things in the air will filter out but not completley degrees of kelvin their for changing the kelvin out put of the sun.. and what are eyes perceive as bright enough light for plants,,plants see alot different than we do,,so for instants your eyes see that the light in your house is bright enough for you plants ,when infact your plants are seeing it as being in heavy shade,,lights and lighting are sometimes very confusing..
Chironex
11-20-2008, 05:35 PM
I bought the 6500k compact fluorescent bulbs from the guy on eBay for $12.98 apiece. Works well enough for me.
Switchable ballasts are a great option too if you decide to go the HID route. You can switch between metal halide and high pressure sodium with the flick of a switch and a different bulb. For keeping you plants happy and green, a halide cannot be beaten by anything. If they are large and start to fruit, you would be better off switching to high pressure sodium as the different spectrum promotes fruiting far better than a halide. Sodium lamps also give off more lumens per watt. I have a switchable 400 watt, and when I change from halide to sodium bulbs the light instantly becomes more intense.
Also, I read someone mention having a sheild with halides....this is very important to have, but they only shatter if they are splashed with water.
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