View Full Version : Still Think TX Star Can't Handle Zone6? - How About Zone 4?
chong
09-22-2008, 08:23 PM
I don't know if someone in the org has posted this before, I found it in my archives. This GardeWeb member, who lives in Logan, UT, posted this thread on that b-board back in June, 2008. I cut out some of the responses that didn't have any relevance to the topic. I highlighted what I thought were relevant, this includes his method of protection. Also, how the TX Star survived after loss of power in their area.
I think I've gotten MY proof from an independent source. At least it's not from the seller.
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Picture of 9' Windmill Palm in bloom, zone 4
Posted by arctictropical Z4 (My Page) on Tue, Jun 24, 08 at 11:46
For those who are in zone denial, here is a picture of a 9' palm in bloom in zone 4. I purchased it as a 1 gallon size plant, kept it in house for two years and then planted it outside about 6-7 years ago. It has been growing like a weed.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13408&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13408&ppuser=567)
Here is a picture of protection in the winter.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13409&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13409&ppuser=567)
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Follow-Up Postings:
• Posted by arctictropical Z4 (My Page) on Wed, Jun 25, 08 at 11:57
Glen, thanks for your comments! I have a butia that has been outside for 3 years now and is doing great. Are you going to try growing a palm outside some day? My two Mediterranean Fan Palms survived -40 F. temperatures about 5 years ago, under the styrofoam boxes, so I imagine you could try doing the same thing in your area.
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• Posted by arctictropical Z4 (My Page) on Sun, Jun 29, 08 at 11:07
explorer mb, in answer to your question about what is under the two smaller boxes in the winter picture, they are "Texas Star" banana plants. In the Fall, I cut the leaves off and the plant down to three foot stumps before putting the boxes on. Similar to the Trachy, when I pull the boxes off in the Spring, they are still alive and green, ready to grow!
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• Posted by arctictropical Z4 (My Page) on Tue, Jul 1, 08 at 10:28
Good morning Glen. Yes, the small boxes over the bananas have one flourescent light. I just use the inexpensive plastic or ceramic light fixtures that cost a couple of dollars each. Yes, I wired the boxes myself. Since the boxes are so small, one light bulb puts out enough heat that builds up nicely inside. One year I lost power to the banana boxes and they froze to the ground, but sprouted from the underground corms in the Spring. "Texas Star" is supposed to be about as hardy as basjoo, and produces edible bananas, but I don't ever expect to get any in my climate. Go for it!
Kevin
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• Posted by Jamie 6(jwilson@coxohio.com) on Tue, Aug 19, 08 at 12:51
That is so cool, I just recently bought 10 Windmill Palm Seedlings to attempt to grow in my Dayton Ohio area home. This truly gives me some hope that I will succeed! When you moved this inside, did it go through any shock? How late in the season did you leave them outside prior to bringing them in for the protection?
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Posted by arctictropical Z4 (My Page) on Tue, Aug 19, 08 at 22:30
Hi Jamie! I actually don't bring it inside for the winter. It is protected by the styrofoam box in the second picture. I have two Mediterranean Fan palms that have been outside for 12-13 years. The Windmall palm has been outside continually for about eight years. I also have a Pindo Palm that has been outside for three years. One of the Mediterranean palms has fronds as wide as the Windmall palm but it is only about 6 feet high since they are slower growing. The largest three palms bloom each year.
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ron_mcb
04-30-2009, 11:55 PM
isnt tx star supposed to be the variety introduced by the infamous ty ty?? what variety is it supposed to have been started from? basjoo and cavandish??? ty ty told me it was obtained in the 70's from witchita falls tx. prolly from an unknown variety that was growing there prolly in some guys back yard and survived that one freeze in tx. they then called it tx star ty ty nursery people lie so much its hard for me to believe anything from them..did i show you the african rhinohorn i got from there???they lied about the cold hardiness and it was the first thing to die..i saved a button from the corm and it is very cold sensitive i have to treat it like a sick baby. just curious has your tx star ever given fruit??? what do the offsets look like?? cavandish??
chong
05-01-2009, 03:12 AM
Hello Ronald,
Yes, the TX Star is the banana that is promoted by the Ty Ty Nursery in the town of the same name in GA. Yes, they claim that it did come from Wichita Falls, TX. I believe that the CA Gold also came from that part in TX. The stories of the sources of these plants are so similar that you'd suspect that they are the same plant. However, there are some members here that may be upset if you did imply that. So I won't go there. Yes, also, there's been a lot of bad press on TyTy Nursery, but as I stated earlier, I've gotten reasonably good experience with them.
Some people have said that the Texas Star is in fact an Orinoco. I would disagree to the extent that they say that they are one and the same. I believe that it could be a mutation from the Dwarf Orinoco or Dwarf Brazilian, though the Dwarf Brazilian is not as cold hardy as the D. Orinoco. Many people who own CA Gold have said that perhaps it is a mutant of the Orinoco, also.
One thing that I can piece together is that they both appear to be of the Bluggo type of banana from the region of Rio Orinoco in South America. Both promoters of each plant claim that they got them from TX(separately), from a Mexican farmer (separately), who each brought the plant from Mexico.
Here is a picture that I got from my archives, which in turn came from the GardenWeb site:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13354&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13354&ppuser=567)
(L-R) CA Gold, TX Star, and CA Hardy
The picture is no longer available at the GardenWeb forum that I got it from, but I think it was someone named Jon from TX. I wish I could find the picture that showed the fruits from the different plants.
Yesterday, I posted an update of the plants I ordered from TyTy Nursery last September 2008:
http://www.bananas.org/f2/surprise-texas-star-banana-shipment-ty-5944-2.html#post73258
JoeReal
05-01-2009, 10:14 AM
I ordered from TyTy nursery a few years back when it was still okay to ship to California. I paid for the Musa Texas Star. I planted it, waited for a couple of years, and it never grew beyond 4 ft tall, and finally it bloomed, and I was frustrated to find out that what they sent me was an ornamental banana with inedible tiny fruits. It was promptly disposed of into my compost heap.
bigdog
05-01-2009, 11:12 AM
I could overwinter any banana in a greenhouse structure. Pile a few inches of mulch around it only, then let us know how it fares in a zone 4 winter! :ha:
I've never personally grown the alleged "Texas Star", so can't vouch for its hardiness. Nor have I ever ordered from TyTy, and I won't because of the ridiculous amounts of negative press that I've seen on the internet about them. I'd love to trade for a pup and do a real test in my zone 7 though, right next to my 'Orinoco' plants.
Frank
JoeReal
05-01-2009, 12:08 PM
Chong,
I'd like to ask for a real Texas Star pup from you. I can exchange it with something that you might be interested in.
Regards,
Joe
harveyc
05-01-2009, 12:45 PM
I passed this on to a former co-worker who does work in Utah and he passed it on to a co-worker in Logan who said he knows the with those plants in Utah, having gone mountain biking with him. He was away from home last weekend and they had 3" of snow but he said that the bananas would not be affected. I presume that means they were already uncovered for the year. Pretty "cool"! :ha:
chong
05-01-2009, 01:15 PM
Joe, I'd be glad to send you a pup, if I ever get one. It might be a while to find out if the one I have will not turn out to be a Velutina as yours did.
just j
05-01-2009, 04:14 PM
i like that palm i was thinking about trying it with my bismarck but not to sure i dont want the leaves to turn orange over winter im in zone 4 so it might be a risk
ron_mcb
05-01-2009, 05:08 PM
when you buy anything from that particular nursery in south ga..you should expect anything..what ever is left over or what ever is in near reach is what you ordered in their eyes.they cant even explain what variety the plant came from or what the fruit looks like..they can only tell you its yellow,very tasty,and the plant is really cold hardy.yup...yup.. uhhh- huh.
chong
05-01-2009, 06:30 PM
when you buy anything from that particular nursery in south ga..you should expect anything..what ever is left over or what ever is in near reach is what you ordered in their eyes.they cant even explain what variety the plant came from or what the fruit looks like..they can only tell you its yellow,very tasty,and the plant is really cold hardy.yup...yup.. uhhh- huh.
It's not just a purchase, it's an adventure!
bigdog
05-01-2009, 07:11 PM
Joe, I'd be glad to send you a pup, if I ever get one. It might be a while to find out if the one I have will not turn out to be a Velutina as yours did.
Like I said in my post earlier, I'd like to trade for a pup as well. If not, oh well. :nanadrink:
chong
05-01-2009, 07:17 PM
Like I said in my post earlier, I'd like to trade for a pup as well. If not, oh well. :nanadrink:
You're on the list, Frank!
1rainman
05-01-2009, 09:16 PM
After reading the legends of California Gold/Texas star online I ordered an d. orinoco from a company that claimed the texas star, dwarf orinoco, and california gold are the same thing. Well I kept looking it up and I found somebody who said they grew them all side by side and tested them. Apparently they are extremely similar but with slight difference. I think like the Cal. Gold was slightly shorter than the dwarf orinoco or something. They were just slightly more cold hardy than the dwarf orinoco and I think a little quicker to fruit with the fruit being basically the same (by a little I mean like a month or something). Apparently they are just variations of the dwarf orinoco, but maybe slightly more desirable. I wrote the company I ordered off of and told them it wasn't the same thing but they never changed their description.
I also think the reputation is a little over stated. The Raja Puri is pretty close in cold hardiness as is the dwarf brazillian. I read one guys blog who tested a whole crap load of bananas. The orinoco, brazzilian and Raja puri were the top 3 with the dwarf brazillian and dwarf orinoco slightly less cold hardy than the bigger versions. Myself my Raja Puri has proven more cold hardy than the other varieties I've had and I had it out with my new dwarf orinoco and it froze and they both reacted about the same so there isn't any huge difference. The orinoco might be slightly more hardy and then the Cal Gold and Texas Star might be an almost unnoticeable bit more hardy than the d. orinoco but its not anything major.
I do like the dwarf orinoco so far though. It's a pretty tree. Still a baby though. Of course in love with raja puri too.
ron_mcb
05-01-2009, 10:22 PM
Hello Ronald,
Yes, the TX Star is the banana that is promoted by the Ty Ty Nursery in the town of the same name in GA. Yes, they claim that it did come from Wichita Falls, TX. I believe that the CA Gold also came from that part in TX. The stories of the sources of these plants are so similar that you'd suspect that they are the same plant. However, there are some members here that may be upset if you did imply that. So I won't go there. Yes, also, there's been a lot of bad press on TyTy Nursery, but as I stated earlier, I've gotten reasonably good experience with them.
Some people have said that the Texas Star is in fact an Orinoco. I would disagree to the extent that they say that they are one and the same. I believe that it could be a mutation from the Dwarf Orinoco or Dwarf Brazilian, though the Dwarf Brazilian is not as cold hardy as the D. Orinoco. Many people who own CA Gold have said that perhaps it is a mutant of the Orinoco, also.
One thing that I can piece together is that they both appear to be of the Bluggo type of banana from the region of Rio Orinoco in South America. Both promoters of each plant claim that they got them from TX(separately), from a Mexican farmer (separately), who each brought the plant from Mexico.
Yesterday, I posted an update of the plants I ordered from TyTy Nursery last September 2008:
http://www.bananas.org/f2/surprise-texas-star-banana-shipment-ty-5944-2.html#post73258
good luck with any of that stuff folks....im sure there were bright rays of devine lights shining from the tx star when it was first discovered too.... im not to quick to buy from any commercial grower that sells stuff online.. if i cant see what im buying im not buying it.i need to examine it for myself.i may trade something im growing to get something new out of curiousity thats it. it takes too much out out of me to go thru all that stuff with theses guys. im certainaly not buying a new variety that no one can tell me where it came from exactly...would you buy an expensive mystery meat from your grocer??? when i went to missisipi i met a woman who grew bananas. i offered her a few bucks for an unknown ladyfinger type banana that was growing in her yard,because i really liked the height of the plant and appearance of the tiny hand of fruit.she declined to take any money..told me to just take a few suckers.she told me it had great fruit,was really cold tolerent,came back with no protection,and was very sweet. i trusted her..why?? she was not in the business of selling anything,and i felt she had no reason to lie or make any false statement.i would rather trust claims from another home grower when obtaining pups,rather than any possibly exaggerated claims from any commercial seller any day.real talk.
p.s. when that mystery banana grows pups of its own i wont sell it on ebay and call it the artic georgia sweet baby.and claims that when dicovered in its natural artic habitat peguins were usin' the leaves to line their nests.
Lagniappe
05-02-2009, 12:42 AM
good luck with any of that stuff folks....im sure there were bright rays of devine lights shining from the tx star when it was first discovered too.... im not to quick to buy from any commercial grower that sells stuff online.. if i cant see what im buying im not buying it.i need to examine it for myself.i may trade something im growing to get something new out of curiousity thats it. it takes too much out out of me to go thru all that stuff with theses guys. im certainaly not buying a new variety that no one can tell me where it came from exactly...would you buy an expensive mystery meat from your grocer??? when i went to missisipi i met a woman who grew bananas. i offered her a few bucks for an unknown ladyfinger type banana that was growing in her yard,because i really liked the height of the plant and appearance of the tiny hand of fruit.she declined to take any money..told me to just take a few suckers.she told me it had great fruit,was really cold tolerent,came back with no protection,and was very sweet. i trusted her..why?? she was not in the business of selling anything,and i felt she had no reason to lie or make any false statement.i would rather trust claims from another home grower when obtaining pups,rather than any possibly exaggerated claims from any commercial seller any day.real talk.
p.s. when that mystery banana grows pups of its own i wont sell it on ebay and call it the artic georgia sweet baby.and claims that when dicovered in its natural artic habitat peguins were usin' the leaves to line their nests.
If we never recognize sports of plants, we would be doing ourselves a great disservice. Many cultivars of fruits and veggies we have today may have been lost in a backyard if not for any hype built up around them. I,for one, will be on the lookout for any anomalies in my plants and hope to one day stumble upon something great to pass along to my fellow enthusiast (For a fee, of course).
chong
05-02-2009, 12:49 AM
After reading the legends of California Gold/Texas star online I ordered an d. orinoco from a company that claimed the texas star, dwarf orinoco, and california gold are the same thing. Well I kept looking it up and I found somebody who said they grew them all side by side and tested them. Apparently they are extremely similar but with slight difference. I think like the Cal. Gold was slightly shorter than the dwarf orinoco or something. They were just slightly more cold hardy than the dwarf orinoco and I think a little quicker to fruit with the fruit being basically the same (by a little I mean like a month or something). Apparently they are just variations of the dwarf orinoco, but maybe slightly more desirable. I wrote the company I ordered off of and told them it wasn't the same thing but they never changed their description.
Yup, the only one that I know of that says that is "The Green Earth" site -
Banana Trees Banana Plants (http://www.bananaplants.net/bananaplants.html)
It's even sporting the picture from the Agristarts website of the Dwarf Orinoco. Their statement may have some validity, but it's not entirely accurate.
I also think the reputation is a little over stated. The Raja Puri is pretty close in cold hardiness as is the dwarf brazillian. I read one guys blog who tested a whole crap load of bananas. The orinoco, brazzilian and Raja puri were the top 3 with the dwarf brazillian and dwarf orinoco slightly less cold hardy than the bigger versions. Myself my Raja Puri has proven more cold hardy than the other varieties I've had and I had it out with my new dwarf orinoco and it froze and they both reacted about the same so there isn't any huge difference. The orinoco might be slightly more hardy and then the Cal Gold and Texas Star might be an almost unnoticeable bit more hardy than the d. orinoco but its not anything major.
Personally, my experience has been that the Dwarf Brazilian is a lot less cold hardy than the Raja Puri, which in turn is less hardy than the Dwarf Orinoco. I'm sure there are a lot of members here will attest to the fact that the CA Gold has greater advantage in cold hardiness over the Raja Puri, and even more so, over the D. Brazilian.
Two winters ago, I lost 2 D. Brazilians. This winter, I lost one DB corm that I got in September, though I placed it near the heater in the greenhouse. My 3-ft Raja Puri put out a good fight in a cold greenhouse, but it doesn't look good right now. There is some firmness at the base of the p-stem, but the diameter of the firm portion is less than an inch. The 2 plants in the same greenhouse that are pushing out right now are the M. Lasiocarpa and the CA Gold.
Surprisingly, in the main greenhouse, a Dwarf Lady Finger from San Diego, a "Dwarf Lady Finger from FL"(in quotes because I suspect that I was sent the wrong plant. I think that it's a tall Orinoco), and my only remaining Dwarf Orinoco remained green throughout the winter, and in fact, continued to put out leaves. Two of the DLF bananas that came with the suspected Orinoco turned to mush, but the fourth one, the leaves turned black, but it's pushing out a new leaf now. These guys are right next to each other, with the D. Orinoco and DLF from San Diego right next to the perimeter glass. So, I don't think that the D. Orinoco and CA Gold are overrated.
I posted a picture of the TX Star from TyTy Nursery that I thought was gone but is pushing out new leaves. Here is the link again:
http://www.bananas.org/f2/surprise-texas-star-banana-shipment-ty-5944-2.html#post73258
harveyc
05-02-2009, 12:52 AM
I think that Dwarf Orinoco, Texas Star, and California Gold may very well be slightly different. I've never seen a thorough comparison of these done, much less in a controlled environment with replications, etc., so we really don't know. I don't see the point in making claims of them being the same or being different. People seem much more willing to make claims about knowing or believing something which they probably don't have enough information to make such a judgment than to just say they don't know. Sometimes I think this is due to pride or fear of appearing ignorant. We all do it to an extent, but I do have a stupid saying about this "people often don't know what they don't know". We all learn a bit more when we discover something turns out to be different than we thought. Hopefully we are open-minded enough to recognize it.
I don't know what I'm still doing up....I think I'll go to bed now. Goodnight! :P
chong
05-02-2009, 02:15 AM
I don't know about other people, but to me, when someone gives an account of his experience, that's all that it is - his experience. Then when he refers that others have had the same experience, again that's all it is - they have the same collective experience. With that, he can choose to offer an opinion based the experience. But expressing an opinion does not make it a claim to be the authority on the matter, or a statement of fact. So, I didn't know that revealing your experience, and expressing a different opinion is motivated by pride or fear. I thought that the posting one's observations/opinions on the subject was the purpose of participating in discussions in a thread.
If I were to make a claim, I would try to quote an authority, or if available, attach a copy of the pertinent source, report, article, or other publication. In these forums, because of the casual, non-scientific, non-legally binding nature of the organization (except regarding purchases), when I read other people's claims, I usually do not expect them to produce documentation to support their claims. But if my experience is far removed from the claim, I believe that stating my own experience does not invalidate the other person's claim.
A case in point is the wisdom of ordering materials from TyTy Nursery. I don't remember anyone else saying anything good about them. But when I revealed my experience with them, it almost seemed like a lot of people were getting on my case. Contrary to common opinion, when I again placed an order from them, the messages I was getting was anything from sympathy to "are you nuts?" Then when I received a reasonably satisfactory shipment, the message I was getting was, "You're one of the lucky few", or "just you wait, you'll see". Okay. I said that I was willing to take the risk. How many people are there who ordered plants from Thailand expected that their plants would grow 100%? And how many of those plants are actually still alive now? So, from where I sit, what's the difference?
When I ordered those plants from TyTy, I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong, or prove myself right. I ordered those plants because I wanted those plants for a long time, and so that I can stop wondering if the plant is really what they say it is.
Nothing to say(possibly a first) just that I'm really enjoying everyones opinions and thoughts here. I'm currently trying to grow Ca. Cold hardy, Ca. Gold and a D. Orinoco side by side so eventually will be able to chime in from the east coast about them.
harveyc
05-02-2009, 11:01 AM
Hey, Chong, chill, dude! :P
Just joking, but I want to make sure you didn't "suspect" I was directing my comments specifically towards you. After all, you were clear in your comment above:
I believe that the CA Gold also came from that part in TX. The stories of the sources of these plants are so similar that you'd suspect that they are the same plant. However, there are some members here that may be upset if you did imply that. So I won't go there.
You weren't stating anything as "fact", there. Nobody has accused you of being a Ty Ty secret advertising agent either. I would, however, like for you to post your mug shot here on the forum so that we can keep an eye out for you turning up in any of the Ty Ty ads. :ha: I don't remember Jeff Earl ever saying what part of Texas his banana came from. I he said the guy got it from Mexico and he didn't have a name for it.
Hey, Bob, get 10 of each so we can have a really good comparison with some statistical significance! I can assure you with 95% confidence that California Cold Hardy is not very similar to Dwarf Orinoco or California Gold. It is a taller plant and produces large bunches. The closest relationship may be in the relationship of the two guys promoting them.
I'm trying to get my hands on a Texas Star also so that I can compare them, but not under scientific conditions, just for fun so I can say they "seem" similar, different, or whatever.
Hey Harvey, If I had room(and better climate) for 10 of each I would do it. I am actually looking for more land to grow on. The current economy might work in my favor there.
Are you sure you want a Chong mugshot? Those Seattle types can be scary(it's the 11 months of rain I think). Delete this last paragraph when you see it so Chong doesn't suspect anything.........:ha::ha:
Tog Tan
05-02-2009, 01:14 PM
After reading this thread out of my personal boredom, I am gonna dive in and tell y'all what I think.
In the case of this cultivar and that, the only way is to create a data base of the physical aspects of the plant. This is what I have done since I got into 'naners. You get a plant, record it photographically from the first stage of growth as a pup. Then do it till it fruits. The following are the important things you have to record.
Juvenile stage
1. Leaf shape in growth.
2. Leaf markings.
Adult stage
1. Overall view of plant.
2. Close up of top and bottom surface of the leaf.
3. Comparison shot of the leaf apex and leaf base with petiole.
4. General color of the plant.
5. Close up of the top and whole p-stem
6. Flower bud
7. Immature fruit
8. Matured fruit - whole - sliced length wise with skin - sliced across with skin.
9. Record the taste of the fruit with a particular one as the comparison. Always used the selected fruit as a comparison to the later ones you taste. This gives you a standard of measure of sort.
From the above pix you can access the characteristics such as the waxyness of the leaf, color of the p-stem in different stages of growth, especially adult stage. Once you get this data, it's not hard to identify a non fruiting plant.
Remember my Drwaf Friuting thingy? I kept asking about the p-stem color diff between the SDC and the DC and no one responded? I realised that no one did actually noticed this characteristic on cultivars. Of course Gabe came in and showed pix of the plant in question and solved the whole thing.
With what I have done on the M'sian cultivars, now I can say I can tell apart the cultivars at a distance just by looking at them and spotting their unique characteristics. Next thing I am doing is I am going to do the same for the Thai ones and then compare them to the M'sian ones. It's fun! Try it and you will enjoy looking at 'naner plants more.
Btw, I can distinguish the all local species from a distance of 500 metres away. I will always tell my business partner, Francis, as we are driving around what species or cultivars in the village or jungle areas are, and I am correct 90% of the time. It has become a game to me and I enjoy it very much. No jokes, not that I am good as some will say, but I took the trouble to be observant. Ok, do it like the way you look at chicks and try to figure out their stats.....:ha:
harveyc
05-02-2009, 01:46 PM
Ok, do it like the way you look at chicks and try to figure out their stats.....:ha:
LOL, I try not to look that closely, Tog, I am happily married and want to keep it that way!!! :D
chong
05-02-2009, 07:57 PM
Hey, Chong, chill, dude! :P
Just joking, but I want to make sure you didn't "suspect" I was directing my comments specifically towards you. After all, you were clear in your comment above:
I don't know what you're talking about, though if the shoe fits . . . . .
You weren't stating anything as "fact", there. Nobody has accused you of being a Ty Ty secret advertising agent either. I would, however, like for you to post your mug shot here on the forum so that we can keep an eye out for you turning up in any of the Ty Ty ads. :ha: I don't remember Jeff Earl ever saying what part of Texas his banana came from. I he said the guy got it from Mexico and he didn't have a name for it.
I'm really quite shy about posting my photos because I don't always come out as good as I want to in them esp. because I didn't take the picture myself. But since you seem to challenge my integrity in regards to my motives with the TyTy issue, here is a photo that my wife took of me. She's not very good at taking pictures, so you'll have to excuse her, as you can see it's a little on the dark side:
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http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17038 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16986&ppuser=567)
Please do not circulate this around. People might mistake me for someone else.
Tog Tan
05-03-2009, 04:18 AM
I'm really quite shy about posting my photos because I don't always come out as good as I want to in them esp. because I didn't take the picture myself. But since you seem to challenge my integrity in regards to my motives with the TyTy issue, here is a photo that my wife took of me. She's not very good at taking pictures, so you'll have to excuse her, as you can see it's a little on the dark side:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17038 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16986&ppuser=567)
Please do not circulate this around. People might mistake me for someone else.
And I thought I was the funny guy. :ha::ha::ha:
I insist you do it again with a true to type now pix. This time use a photostat machine. You can close your eyes and then paint them in later. It's better than a camera cos you don't need someone else to do it and then blame them for any short comings. One of my crazy friends once photostated his private parts and sent the pix to all the girls he knows anonymously. I told him, it's a great idea, but how about a group pix...:ha::ha::ha:
harveyc
05-03-2009, 10:20 AM
Back on subject (okay?), I have been in contact with the Utah grower, Kevin, and we will trade pups/corms, so I will try to make a comparison of it to California Gold.
I feel less crazy for growing Ae Ae in USDA zone 9 now after chatting with Kevin! He is in zone 4, has had -45F, has palms, 3,000 cannas, as well as caladiums, etc.
ron_mcb
05-03-2009, 02:10 PM
If we never recognize sports of plants, we would be doing ourselves a great disservice. Many cultivars of fruits and veggies we have today may have been lost in a backyard if not for any hype built up around them. I,for one, will be on the lookout for any anomalies in my plants and hope to one day stumble upon something great to pass along to my fellow enthusiast (For a fee, of course).
i was simply saying if you cant say where your sport originated,and why you believe its a variation,mutation ,and or improvement then its not proper to rename it,and sell it for profit...look at the double mahoi its a sport of the dwarf cavandish.the person that introduced it told you where it came from and why it differs from its mother,same as goldfinger. dont you think its strange when someone offers a new variety and they cant tell where it came from exactly,and what makes it different besides being able to survive a frost? if the seller only offers superimposed photos and no real photos of their product it makes it more fishy.two years ago i first ordered my banana plant i saw all of these weird varieties being offered,so i really studied before i spent my money.the reason i didnt buy the texas star was because i could not find any information on this thing..some people are real big consumers they like being sold 'new things" and will buy instant toast....then there are people like me. you have to tell me why i should buy your product,especially if i have never heard of it.
i think with some sellers there is too much of same stuff renamed and repackaged. i wont just talk about people from certain south ga nurseries doing it either.
rhymechizel
05-06-2009, 02:38 AM
Getting back on the above topic I live just a few hours from Kevin (mentioned in the first post with the Trachy and the Texas star bananas) and have visited him. His styrofome structures with the low watt lights for heat are very simple and cost efficient but I believe it never gets close to freezing in these structures; it is hardly a test of hardiness. I am planning on using these structures to overwinter a variety of tropical plants. If a banana can survive without rot or freeze I think a lot of different plants can as well.
alpha010
05-08-2009, 08:39 AM
I would love to get drawings and schemas on these structures and maybe even a supplier list of certain things, i.e. styrofoam boards. Then I wont have to worry about purchasing a greenhouse for my hobby whan I can do the same thing cheaper. Also, I am suspecting but did not remember reading whether the lights stayed on 24/7 or if they werer kicked off at certain points. Would really like to know.
chong
05-08-2009, 01:42 PM
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• Posted by arctictropical Z4 (My Page) on Tue, Jul 1, 08 at 10:28
Good morning Glen. Yes, the small boxes over the bananas have one flourescent light. I just use the inexpensive plastic or ceramic light fixtures that cost a couple of dollars each. Yes, I wired the boxes myself. Since the boxes are so small, one light bulb puts out enough heat that builds up nicely inside. One year I lost power to the banana boxes and they froze to the ground, but sprouted from the underground corms in the Spring. "Texas Star" is supposed to be about as hardy as basjoo, and produces edible bananas, but I don't ever expect to get any in my climate. Go for it!
Kevin
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I would love to get drawings and schemas on these structures and maybe even a supplier list of certain things, i.e. styrofoam boards. Then I wont have to worry about purchasing a greenhouse for my hobby whan I can do the same thing cheaper. Also, I am suspecting but did not remember reading whether the lights stayed on 24/7 or if they werer kicked off at certain points. Would really like to know.
Styrofoam boards are available in most hardware/lumber stores, including Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace Hardware, etc. They commonly come in various thicknesses up to 4", and 4'x8' sheets. If you look at the photo of the boxes, you will see that there are nailing strips at corners, and in the middle of the boards to retain the boards to a frame. So, that would suggest where the frame members are. For this application, given the fact that all the structure needs is to keep the Styrofoam boards together, it can be made from standard 2x2 lumber. Then, in order to keep the boxes from blowing over in strong winds, the are guy-roped on each corner to a ground stake, just as you would a tent.
From the above description by the author, it would appear that he may be leaving it the light on 24/7. A 100-watt light output fluorescent bulb only uses 17 Watts of electricity, the 60-watt fluorescent - only 13 Watts. Depending on the thickness of the S. board, with so little heat that it produces (17 Watts = 58 BTU/hour), turning the lamp off for several hours, equivalent to nighttime) will make it difficult for that tiny lamp to recover, or may never recover. I can try to calculate the heat loss through that smaller structure, which I think is about 2'x4'x2'high, and see how thick the wall needs to be in order to allow shutting down the lamp for, say, 8-hours a day.
rhymechizel
05-08-2009, 03:21 PM
He does keep them on 24/7 although I have heard of people wanting to try a thermastat.
alpha010
05-09-2009, 05:19 AM
Thanks Chong fo rclarification..believe it or not, I am a handy person with a wonderful Imagination, but alas I have worked in quality control for long enough to where I don't build, cut, or bolt anything till I have full and proper paperwork. Kinda sucks at times. And especially with this setup, you can never really tell if the guy has anything structurewise on the inside which may have been done out of past experience which someday I could learn from that experience and possibly not lose a single nanner. My brain works in absolutely wonderful ways, just getting it on the right track proves difficult at times with all these tangents.
Now with the light situation....I know from experience growing veggies at least, that if giving the plant a light source 24/7 actually will kill the plant. Most plants that I know of need dark for a period of time each day to rest, or else like a person on a severe water and food binge, will eventually eat themselves to death. And, I personnally don't feel that if you get winds under 0 degrees anywhere in the world, 58 BTUs is not going to be enough to keep the ground from freezing under the structure unless the encasement used lets say a house as a wall in which you might get some radiant heat from.
Just my pennies, don't spend it all in one place!
Shaggy
rhymechizel
05-14-2009, 11:45 PM
Kevin has built a simple frame out of 1x2 lumber and then attatched the styrofoam. Lights are kept on 24/7 and he has kept his trachy alive this way for 15 yrs. The bananas he has had for less time. When I build my structures this fall I will post some pics as I plan on doing my a little different.
rhymechizel
05-14-2009, 11:51 PM
for those interested, here is a pic of his palm this year
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh165/arctictropical/DSCF2160.jpg
some bananas he brings in each year
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh165/arctictropical/DSCF2146.jpg
inside the structure
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh165/arctictropical/DSCF1887.jpg
alpha010
05-15-2009, 01:31 PM
so simple, yet so elegant!
Scuba_Dave
05-15-2009, 02:26 PM
For outside, does anyone insulate an area underground around the plant? IE the same size as the box. that way the earth stays warmer?
frankthetank
05-15-2009, 03:01 PM
Another thought would be to plant a banana very deep...say 2ft down or more in a hole... Let it grow and then cut it back flush will the hole come winter and fill the hole with mulch and cover with foam or something (keep water out)... Then let it grow back the following year. Would be an interesting experiment to try... You would have to make the hole pretty wide to let light get in there (which shouldn't be a problem in late spring with the sun so high in the air)...
I should really try this with one of my spare Sikkimensis... And i love digging holes!
alpha010
05-15-2009, 03:16 PM
Frank you might want to check what the perma-frost depth is in your area, I am certain that in mine it's roughly 2 feet in the dead of winter, so even planting that deep would still be a fruitless adventure. But, nonetheless, if you feel like you may have a shot, go for it! Nothing wrong with a good experiment.
Shaggy
chong
05-15-2009, 03:39 PM
Frank you might want to check what the perma-frost depth is in your area, I am certain that in mine it's roughly 2 feet in the dead of winter, so even planting that deep would still be a fruitless adventure. But, nonetheless, if you feel like you may have a shot, go for it! Nothing wrong with a good experiment.
Shaggy
Perma-frost???? In Wisconsin???? Or, are you referring to the frost line/frost depth? Prema-frost is an underground ice lens. Believe me, if you have perma-forst in your area, you do not want to dig to that depth. The ice will melt, and the ground surrounding it will collapse. For frost line/frost depth in your area, call the Plumbing Plans Examiner or Inspector in your county or city. They can tell you the proper depth to bury your domestic water service pipe.
alpha010
05-15-2009, 03:53 PM
You got what I meant Chong, thanx. I keep forgetting the permafrost definition, been a while since I learned it
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