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sunfish
07-31-2008, 11:24 AM
I have leaves on banana plant that are bending at the tips. A while back there was a thread about this ,I searched but cant find it. Does anyone remember the title of the thread or remember what was causing the leaves to bend. Thanks

natedogg1026
07-31-2008, 12:09 PM
Can you post pics?

sunfish
07-31-2008, 12:44 PM
I have been having problems posting photos. The leaves are curved sideways .

sunfish
07-31-2008, 12:59 PM
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11922&ppuser=2868><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11922&size=1 border=0></a>


Here we go.

paula
07-31-2008, 06:07 PM
Mine do that in the middle of the
day when the sun is hot .
then they come right back.

sunfish
07-31-2008, 06:19 PM
The leaves fold up in the heat of the day but this is different. Do you see how it is bending sideways , never seen that before. I will check them out this evening and see if they straighten. Thanks

momoese
07-31-2008, 08:13 PM
Tony, I started a rather long running thread about the exact same thing. I don't think I ever really figured what happened to the leaves. It seems it was just that one season cause now they are all fine. I haven't really changed anything food or water wise, so I don't know. They are a pain though as they get caught trying to unfurl and then the next one grows into it and gets tangled. I ended up lopping off the end of several of them to allow them to unfurl all the way.

Matt in SD
07-31-2008, 09:11 PM
Tony,
Is that one you got from me? I think the plant that I got as williams (not sure if it really is) does this. But my memory is a bit fuzzy. I've definitely seen this before and it's not a problem, it will grow out of it.

Matt

natedogg1026
07-31-2008, 09:22 PM
STRESS would be my guess, but could also be a genetic flaw.

sunfish
07-31-2008, 10:36 PM
MA

sunfish
07-31-2008, 10:38 PM
Sounds like it is no problem for the plant. Thats good. Matt this is a goldfinger not one of yours. Thanks for the help eveyone

Greenie
08-01-2008, 12:57 PM
the "Fhia" varieties have this trait.

Dean W.
08-01-2008, 01:28 PM
I haven't noticed this on any of mine.

momoese
08-01-2008, 05:35 PM
My FHIA 18 is fine. Like I said, I had this problem with several varieties but only for one season. The only thing that I can think might have changed is the temps and humidity.

Kylie2x
08-01-2008, 05:55 PM
I have a GF that does that on occasion.. I just guessed it was heat becoz it is always standing up very proudly come morning...

momoese
08-01-2008, 08:46 PM
I have a GF that does that on occasion.. I just guessed it was heat becoz it is always standing up very proudly come morning...

I think your talking about is just mid day droop. What Tony is asking about is permanently bent leaves that emerge that way from day one and never change, right Tony? Sometimes they are bent to the left and sometimes to the right.

harveyc
08-01-2008, 08:48 PM
I had to perform surgery on some Ae Ae leaves that were bent but then someone on another group suggested watering it more and that seemed to help, though I don't know if that might be related to other situations as mine is in a large pot still (but not for long).

sunfish
08-01-2008, 10:55 PM
Thats right . The leaves are bent not drooping , but they are not that way from day one.

momoese
08-02-2008, 12:19 AM
Thats right . The leaves are bent not drooping , but they are not that way from day one.

So when they unfurl they are straight, then later they become permanently bent?

hydrojeff
08-02-2008, 05:23 AM
i also have this problem and mine start like that, before they even unfurl all the way you can see the bend in the cigar, it looks like a S almost and the leaf thats affected stays that way till it dies, some get it and some dont, wish i knew why? and like Tony says they are also folded like the hot part of the day and bent, but they never flaten out like a leaf would when it starts to get cool at sunset, they just stay that way.

sunfish
08-02-2008, 11:10 AM
I Took Another Look Today. The New Leaf Is Bent. This Is A Goldfinger With Four Pups. This Is Only Happening On One Of Them. The Leaves Fold During The Day But Do Flatten Out When It Cools.

momoese
08-02-2008, 04:16 PM
i also have this problem and mine start like that, before they even unfurl all the way you can see the bend in the cigar, it looks like a S almost and the leaf thats affected stays that way till it dies, some get it and some dont, wish i knew why? and like Tony says they are also folded like the hot part of the day and bent, but they never flaten out like a leaf would when it starts to get cool at sunset, they just stay that way.

This is exactly what mine did. You could see it in the cigar leaf even before they opened, or tried to open I should say!

hydrojeff
08-03-2008, 05:27 PM
yes Mitchel i have about 5 plants doing this right now? its strange, wonder who could tell what it is?

Bananaman88
08-04-2008, 12:18 PM
Does your leaf look burned too, in addition to the S-shape? I've been having trouble with my Hua Moa lately. The past several cigar leaves have had burned sections on them and will not unroll properly. I've tried to unroll them, but they are stuck together really badly at the burned portion. I've had to cut several off to let it finish unrolling, but the next one comes out the same way. I also noticed yesterday that the latest cigar leaf is burning and s-shaped. I think the s-shape is due to it's inability to unroll. I certainly hope it grows out of this soon. None of my other bananas are exhibiting this problem.

harveyc
08-04-2008, 03:09 PM
it seems that 2 different things are being discussed here.

re: leaves that don't unfurl properly - I have a 6' Ae Ae in a pot and had been conservative in watering it after reading warnings of the risk of over-watering. About 10-14 days ago I had 2 leaves that required "surgery" to get them unfurled. Then, a friend told me he had been told that Ae Ae love a lot of water and are hard to over-water. I decided to give it a try and have soaked it ever 1-2 days. I then got 2 perfect leaves about 4 days apart with another on the way. Maybe I've learned something, but too early to say for sure.

sunfish
08-04-2008, 04:41 PM
The leaves on this plant unfurl properly. After they have unfurled they twist , bend.

hydrojeff
08-05-2008, 07:23 AM
Does your leaf look burned too, in addition to the S-shape? I've been having trouble with my Hua Moa lately. The past several cigar leaves have had burned sections on them and will not unroll properly. I've tried to unroll them, but they are stuck together really badly at the burned portion. I've had to cut several off to let it finish unrolling, but the next one comes out the same way. I also noticed yesterday that the latest cigar leaf is burning and s-shaped. I think the s-shape is due to it's inability to unroll. I certainly hope it grows out of this soon. None of my other bananas are exhibiting this problem.

Brent i have had the same problem with many of my nanas having full leaf burn in a day or two, it does not happen to all of my plants, it seems to attack just some? and also have lost about 3 to what ever this is, i thoought it was a fert thing, too much in my case???? wish i knew????

Bananaman88
08-05-2008, 11:36 AM
I've wondered about over-fertilization as the cause as well but I'm not sure, as I tend not to fert. alot. That doesn't mean that I didn't overdo it the last time, though. All other plants seem fine though. If it is over-fert. then it should eventually get better.

Taylor
08-05-2008, 01:06 PM
I noticed when I fertilized, my Rajapuri started doing this. Obviously, it didn't need the nutrients!!!

snc
08-05-2008, 02:50 PM
I have 2 of 4 basjoos that do this after fertilizing however the other 2 right next to them are not affected. My red abbs also did this last week with no fert added. my mysore, saba, laterita and sikks do not show any signs of stress after fert though.

I did have about a 4 inch leaf that was just emerging litterally turn yellow and fall of yesterday maybe cause it is high 90's in day and 80@night? :2141:

Tomsamba
09-13-2009, 05:43 PM
Ah ha! so one man's twisty is another mans bent....but no one knows why..

Eric
09-13-2009, 06:32 PM
I nearly lost my dwarf Cavendish to this burnt-leaf problem. Weird too since the Giant Sweet plantain wasnt that far from it & both get fertilized the same. In desparation, I finally dug it up, cleaned it up, & cut the dirt in the mound with a lot of sand & new compost. I replanted it (without fertilizing) and the new leaves weren't nearly as burned. That was early last month, now it's so healthy looking, ya can't tell there was a problem and it sent up a very healthy pup. The Plantain was never affected.
I'm not saying it was definitely over-fertilized BUT I will say that the same soil mix was used in both mounds, same fertilizer too. My conclusion was simply that Cavendish requires less fertilizer than a Plantain. Could be wrong but that's my best guess.

Total LOL on that previous post :) !!

mbfirey
07-29-2010, 06:10 PM
I have a RajaPuri that have leaves that come out and then go down like a "U"
They don't unroll properly either. Still no idea of the cause????

srash
09-06-2010, 06:46 PM
I have a variegated banana that lately is less variegated. I had already decided that I was over fertilizing it, but I think it has also been dry.
I suspect that the lack of water is the most likely cause of the bend. I'm going to try to water it more and am not planning on using any more fertilizer this year.
Here is a picture showing both the bend and the burning.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=36381&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36381&ppuser=1910)

venturabananas
09-06-2010, 07:51 PM
I got a definitive answer today as to the cause of at least some of the problems discussed in this thread. I've had the same problem as shown in the previous photo from srash and described by Brent -- cigar leaves that won't unfurl properly, get burnt, and end up bent when unfurled. A photo of my dwarf cavendish with this problem is at the end of this post.

Dr. Scot Nelson, the writer, director, producer, etc. of the great fee DVD, "Growing Bananas" explained to me what is going on...

The ultimate cause of the problem is calcium deficiency. But many of us have noticed the link with fertilizing. What happens is that if availability of calcium is low but nitrogen is abundant, the plants grow faster than they can transport adequate calcium to the cell walls of the growing leaves.

The short term solution is to apply a foliar spray of a liquid calcium product. The longer term solution is to add calcium to the soil. Dr. Nelson recommended an application of agricultural lime to the soil every year or two.

Finally, mystery solved!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=35878&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=35878&ppuser=7760)

aruzinsky
07-20-2018, 11:53 AM
...

The short term solution is to apply a foliar spray of a liquid calcium product. ...



That is wrong because calcium does not travel down the phloem to the meristem.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103627909366887

venturabananas
07-20-2018, 02:59 PM
That is wrong because calcium does not travel down the phloem to the meristem.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103627909366887

I'll take your work on that.

I'd also add that the mystery was not solved and what in fact was the problem was a boron deficiency, which has very similar symptoms to calcium deficiency, and I guess in Hawaii at least, tends to go hand in hand.

A foliar spray of boron (Solubor) did solve the problem, though additional application of boron to the soil every so often (twice a year, generally) is necessary in my yard to avoid the boron deficiency to recur.

edwmax
07-27-2018, 05:20 AM
That is wrong because calcium does not travel down the phloem to the meristem.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103627909366887


It doesn't have to! Calcium is absorbed direct into the leaf were it is needed. This is the advantage of foliar spraying.

aruzinsky
07-27-2018, 09:04 AM
It doesn't have to! Calcium is absorbed direct into the leaf were it is needed. This is the advantage of foliar spraying.

No, because the leaves that you spray are not growing. The growing leaf is rolled up inside the pseudostem, growing from a meristem near ground level. By the time the roll emerges from the top of the pseudostem, where it can be sprayed, it is already deformed.

edwmax
07-27-2018, 10:19 AM
No, because the leaves that you spray are not growing. The growing leaf is rolled up inside the pseudostem, growing from a meristem near ground level. By the time the roll emerges from the top of the pseudostem, where it can be sprayed, it is already deformed.


Yes ... including cigar leaf that you see bent, which is the one that is showing the problem; And other recently opened (light colored or streaked) leaves which still needs additional calcium. ... Other new cigar leaves, yet to push up the pstem & out, will push though the top of the pstem. Then pick up calcium collected at the top of the pstem (osmosis & electrolyte equalization of the sap). The U-shaped Peticle canal channels water or foliar spray into the top of the pstem and along the upper pstem which will absorb into the sap. ... Foliar spray is a weak solution application and usually require application every 2 weeks (10 days ??) if this going to be the only source of fertilizer or nutrients.



Once the calcium binds in the plant cell, it is locked. The calcium will not redistribute (recycle) within the plant to other parts that need it. The large green leaves that you referred to already have all the calcium they need. It's the new upper leaves & cigar leaf that needs the calcium to thicken and strengthen the leaf before becoming damaged & broken by wind while waiting on root uptake.


Dry forms of lime or gypsum still needs to be applied to the soil, but this will take several weeks to break down for the roots to take up the calcium.

So 3 or 4 applications by foliar spray will be needed.

aruzinsky
07-27-2018, 11:37 AM
Yes ... including cigar leaf that you see bent, which is the one that is showing the problem; And other recently opened (light colored or streaked) leaves which still needs additional calcium. ... Other new cigar leaves, yet to push up the pstem & out, will push though the top of the pstem. Then pick up calcium collected at the top of the pstem (osmosis & electrolyte equalization of the sap). The U-shaped Peticle canal channels water or foliar spray into the top of the pstem and along the upper pstem which will absorb into the sap. ... Foliar spray is a weak solution application and usually require application every 2 weeks (10 days ??) if this going to be the only source of fertilizer or nutrients.



Once the calcium binds in the plant cell, it is locked. The calcium will not redistribute (recycle) within the plant to other parts that need it. The large green leaves that you referred to already have all the calcium they need. It's the new upper leaves & cigar leaf that needs the calcium to thicken and strengthen the leaf before becoming damaged & broken by wind while waiting on root uptake.


Dry forms of lime or gypsum still needs to be applied to the soil, but this will take several weeks to break down for the roots to take up the calcium.

So 3 or 4 applications by foliar spray will be needed.

Do you know this because you performed an experiment with untreated controls? You have to do a controlled experiment because the problem is likely to go away on its own. If you don't do a controlled experiment, you might falsely conclude that the spray worked.

Many people falsely believe that putting eggshells at the base of their tomato plants cured BER because they didn't perform a controlled experiment. Had they performed a controlled experiment, they would know that the problem went away on its own.

edwmax
07-27-2018, 02:29 PM
Do you know this because you performed an experiment with untreated controls? You have to do a controlled experiment because the problem is likely to go away on its own. If you don't do a controlled experiment, you might falsely conclude that the spray worked.

Many people falsely believe that putting eggshells at the base of their tomato plants cured BER because they didn't perform a controlled experiment. Had they performed a controlled experiment, they would know that the problem went away on its own.


I live on and grew up on a farm. I see the benefits of foliar spraying every day. Farmers no longer apply fertilizer to the ground, but use foliar spraying every 2 weeks with herbicide, fungicides, insecticide, and fertilizer All at the same time.


There are plenty of University studies proving the benefits of Foliar spraying. In regards to banana, there are specific recommendations for using foliar spray to treat nutrient defectiveness. Just use google to find them.



So why don't YOU perform an experiment proving it doesn't work!

...

Oh, egg shells are a good source of usable calcium to the plant, but lack of calcium is not the only cause of BER in tomatoes. Calcium is the 'truck' to transport many other elements though the plant. So when calcium deficiency is suspected, you can bet several other elements are needed too. ... One can overload a plant with calcium too; which can cause a blockage of root uptake of other needed plant elements.

aruzinsky
07-27-2018, 06:48 PM
I live on and grew up on a farm. I see the benefits of foliar spraying every day. Farmers no longer apply fertilizer to the ground, but use foliar spraying every 2 weeks with herbicide, fungicides, insecticide, and fertilizer All at the same time.


There are plenty of University studies proving the benefits of Foliar spraying. In regards to banana, there are specific recommendations for using foliar spray to treat nutrient defectiveness. Just use google to find them.



So why don't YOU perform an experiment proving it doesn't work!



Because I never had bent leaf rolls on musa. I never said that foliar feeding of elements other than calcium doesn't work.

edwmax
07-27-2018, 07:07 PM
Because I never had bent leaf rolls on musa. I never said that foliar feeding of elements other than calcium doesn't work.


I didn't say, you said that, BUT you are the one that stated I should do experiments to prove foliar feeding does work. ... If you don't do a controlled experiment, you might falsely conclude that the spray worked. ...


By using GOOGLE one can find proper university research papers by PHDs all paid for by millions of tax payer's dollars.

aruzinsky
07-28-2018, 08:08 AM
I didn't say, you said that, BUT you are the one that stated I should do experiments to prove foliar feeding does work.

No, I said foiiar feeding of calcium doesn't work. And, I gave a research paper:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103627909366887

"Foliar applied calcium is normally immobile, but can be induced to translocate by the saturation of adsorption sites in the leaf with divalent cations or by chelation. Best evidence shows that the calcium moves in a reverse xylem flow down water‐potential gradients."

That suggests that it can move down the xylem, most likely when upward xylem flow stops during rain or high humidity. Still, a 10 foot petiole xylem is a very long distance to "flow down water‐potential gradients," so I doubt it.

By using GOOGLE one can find proper university research papers by PHDs all paid for by millions of tax payer's dollars.

It's incumbent upon you to cite specific papers like I did. And, by that I mean about the efficacy of foliar feeding of calcium and nothing else.

edwmax
07-28-2018, 04:12 PM
No, I said foiiar feeding of calcium doesn't work. And, I gave a research paper:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103627909366887
...

Your reference doesn't say that. ... YOU said "That is wrong because calcium does not travel down the phloem to the meristem." ... Your reference actually contradicts your statement as shown by your following quote. ... I think you misunderstand what is meant by the terms "mobile and immobile" of calcium in plants. Calcium is mobile in some plants and immobile in others such as Banana. Calcium is mobile in ALL plants from the roots to the parts of the plant it is used. But in some plants such as Banana calcium becomes immobile when it binds (fixes) in the plant cellular structure. That is it can not be reused in other parts of the plant.


You ignored my comment where I stated calcium didn't have to move down the meristem. It is directly applied where it is needed and absorbed by the leaf.

...
"Foliar applied calcium is normally immobile, but can be induced to translocate by the saturation of adsorption sites in the leaf with divalent cations or by chelation. Best evidence shows that the calcium moves in a reverse xylem flow down water‐potential gradients."

That suggests that it can move down the xylem, most likely when upward xylem flow stops during rain or high humidity. Still, a 10 foot petiole xylem is a very long distance to "flow down water‐potential gradients," so I doubt it.
...

This is irrelevant to foliar spraying. The purpose of foliar spray is to by-pass the roots and meristem and apply nutrients directly where needed by the plant.

...
It's incumbent upon you to cite specific papers like I did. And, by that I mean about the efficacy of foliar feeding of calcium and nothing else.

No it is not incumbent upon me to cite papers when my above comments were not based on them. Nor is it incumbent on me to do your leg work.

However, if you need further reading:

"The movement of calcium in plants" by B. C. Hanger (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103627909366887#metrics-content)

"Calcium movement in plants is unidirectional, moving up from the roots and generally routed to meristematic zones and young tissue. Once deposited in leaf tissue it is not recycled, even under calcium stress conditions. "
{ comment: this was what I basically stated in my posted comments and also above. ... And, Yes this is the paper YOU referenced. }


"Application Strategies for Banana" (http://www.yara.in/crop-nutrition/crops/banana/key-facts/application-strategies/)

"Foliar application is used to address an immediate nutritional need or where soil conditions restrict availability of specific nutrients. It is also important to target the underside of the leaf as well as the top surface.
... Fruit applications are rare and often impracticable due to the use of bunch covers, though there is some indication that calcium applied to the bunch can supplement existing reserves and improve fruit storage characteristics. "


"Selenium, zinc and calcium rich banana cultivation method " (https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103650848A/en)

(5) Foliar application: 10000-15000 fold diluted and selenium concentration and dilution of 0.3-0.5% Zn dilution and concentration of 0.5-1% calcium fertilizer dilution, growth period in banana leaves surface spray 2-6 times.

[0005] Step (5) of the fertilizer is applied at the seedling stage banana, vigorous growth period, the two results of the spray flowering and fruit enlargement.

"Crop Guide: Banana | Haifa Group" (http://www.haifa-group.com/haifa-cal%E2%84%A2-calcium-nitrate-healthy-crops)

Haifa Cal™ range of calcium nitrate products offers ideal source of plant-available calcium for all crops and growing methods. Haifa Cal products contain nitrogen in the form of nitrate (NO3-), which enriches plant nutrition and improves the efficiency of calcium uptake.
Haifa Cal™ products are suitable for highly-efficient applications by Nutrigation™ (fertigation) and foliar sprays, as well as soil applications.


Banana guide: fertilization recommendation (http://www.haifa-group.com/crop-guide/fruit-trees/crop-guide-banana/banana-guide-fertilization-recommendations)


4.7 Foliar feeding

The plant roots readily absorb most mineral nutrients. However, many other plant organs are able to absorb nutrients in their ionic form from solutions. The extensive area of plant leaves makes them a natural candidate as a complementary feeding channel. Indeed, this method is now widespread in feeding management of many crops. The unique advantages that this method offers for banana growers are as follows:
When the banana crop require plant nutrients, which are fixed and immobile in the soil.
When deficiencies are detected at advanced stages of plant growth, and a quick correction is necessary.
When root activity is hampered by external stresses such as low soil temperature, poor aeration, nematodes, rodents, or damage by machinery.
When the effectiveness of direct soil application is limited due to weed infestation. As foliar application bypasses weed competition, this method ensures high availability to the target organs.
When the roots are unable to provide the plant with certain nutrients at adequate rates, during specific critical stages of growth. This syndrome may take place even in fertile soils.4.7.1 Foliar feeding practices

In Martinique, Philippines, Colombia and elsewhere it has become a prevailing practice to apply Haifa Bonus npK at a rate of 70 -100 g/mat (25-30% of the yearly potassium requirement) at the time of bunch initiation. The high availability of Haifa Bonus npK to the plant makes it the best fertilizer in meeting the plant’s increasing demand for nutrients at this critical stage of plant development that determines yield.

In Colombia, Mexico and elsewhere, foliar sprays during the vegetative growth and bunch development were found to be remarkably beneficial in increasing bunch weight, number of hands per bunch and number of fingers per hand (Tabs. 50, 51).

aruzinsky
07-29-2018, 11:01 AM
Your reference doesn't say that. ... YOU said "That is wrong because calcium does not travel down the phloem to the meristem." ... Your reference actually contradicts your statement as shown by your following quote. ... I think you misunderstand what is meant by the terms "mobile and immobile" of calcium in plants. Calcium is mobile in some plants and immobile in others such as Banana. Calcium is mobile in ALL plants from the roots to the parts of the plant it is used. But in some plants such as Banana calcium becomes immobile when it binds (fixes) in the plant cellular structure. That is it can not be reused in other parts of the plant.

You ignored my comment where I stated calcium didn't have to move down the meristem. It is directly applied where it is needed and absorbed by the leaf.

This is irrelevant to foliar spraying. The purpose of foliar spray is to by-pass the roots and meristem and apply nutrients directly where needed by the plant.

No it is not incumbent upon me to cite papers when my above comments were not based on them. Nor is it incumbent on me to do your leg work.

However, if you need further reading:

"The movement of calcium in plants" by B. C. Hanger (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103627909366887#metrics-content)

"Calcium movement in plants is unidirectional, moving up from the roots and generally routed to meristematic zones and young tissue. Once deposited in leaf tissue it is not recycled, even under calcium stress conditions. "
{ comment: this was what I basically stated in my posted comments and also above. ... And, Yes this is the paper YOU referenced. }


"Application Strategies for Banana" (http://www.yara.in/crop-nutrition/crops/banana/key-facts/application-strategies/)

"Foliar application is used to address an immediate nutritional need or where soil conditions restrict availability of specific nutrients. It is also important to target the underside of the leaf as well as the top surface.
... Fruit applications are rare and often impracticable due to the use of bunch covers, though there is some indication that calcium applied to the bunch can supplement existing reserves and improve fruit storage characteristics. "


"Selenium, zinc and calcium rich banana cultivation method " (https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103650848A/en)

(5) Foliar application: 10000-15000 fold diluted and selenium concentration and dilution of 0.3-0.5% Zn dilution and concentration of 0.5-1% calcium fertilizer dilution, growth period in banana leaves surface spray 2-6 times.

[0005] Step (5) of the fertilizer is applied at the seedling stage banana, vigorous growth period, the two results of the spray flowering and fruit enlargement.

"Crop Guide: Banana | Haifa Group" (http://www.haifa-group.com/haifa-cal%E2%84%A2-calcium-nitrate-healthy-crops)

Haifa Cal™ range of calcium nitrate products offers ideal source of plant-available calcium for all crops and growing methods. Haifa Cal products contain nitrogen in the form of nitrate (NO3-), which enriches plant nutrition and improves the efficiency of calcium uptake.
Haifa Cal™ products are suitable for highly-efficient applications by Nutrigation™ (fertigation) and foliar sprays, as well as soil applications.


Banana guide: fertilization recommendation (http://www.haifa-group.com/crop-guide/fruit-trees/crop-guide-banana/banana-guide-fertilization-recommendations)


4.7 Foliar feeding

The plant roots readily absorb most mineral nutrients. However, many other plant organs are able to absorb nutrients in their ionic form from solutions. The extensive area of plant leaves makes them a natural candidate as a complementary feeding channel. Indeed, this method is now widespread in feeding management of many crops. The unique advantages that this method offers for banana growers are as follows:
When the banana crop require plant nutrients, which are fixed and immobile in the soil.
When deficiencies are detected at advanced stages of plant growth, and a quick correction is necessary.
When root activity is hampered by external stresses such as low soil temperature, poor aeration, nematodes, rodents, or damage by machinery.
When the effectiveness of direct soil application is limited due to weed infestation. As foliar application bypasses weed competition, this method ensures high availability to the target organs.
When the roots are unable to provide the plant with certain nutrients at adequate rates, during specific critical stages of growth. This syndrome may take place even in fertile soils.4.7.1 Foliar feeding practices

In Martinique, Philippines, Colombia and elsewhere it has become a prevailing practice to apply Haifa Bonus npK at a rate of 70 -100 g/mat (25-30% of the yearly potassium requirement) at the time of bunch initiation. The high availability of Haifa Bonus npK to the plant makes it the best fertilizer in meeting the plant’s increasing demand for nutrients at this critical stage of plant development that determines yield.

In Colombia, Mexico and elsewhere, foliar sprays during the vegetative growth and bunch development were found to be remarkably beneficial in increasing bunch weight, number of hands per bunch and number of fingers per hand (Tabs. 50, 51).

You have a nasty habit of conflating a few relevant with many irrelevant facts.

"calcium applied to the bunch" is not foliar feeding and therefore irrelevant.

"Once deposited in leaf tissue it is not recycled" is not foliar feeding and therefore irrelevant.

The only documents that you list that seem support your statement that foliar feeding of calcium works are not papers published in peer reviewed journals. In particular,

"Selenium, zinc and calcium rich banana cultivation method " (https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103650848A/en)

is a patent and people do not have to prove that a patent works to get one. It is my experience that most patents don't work.

Haifa Group is a business that lies for profit.

I am done speaking to you because I don't deserve the difficult task of finding relevancies in your prolific pile of irrelevancies. I suggest that you only speak to fools who deserve it.

edwmax
07-29-2018, 12:51 PM
You have a nasty habit of conflating a few relevant with many irrelevant facts.

"calcium applied to the bunch" is not foliar feeding and therefore irrelevant. ...


The calcium is applied by FOLIAR spray. It doen't just jump from the ground to the bunch.


... "Once deposited in leaf tissue it is not recycled" is not foliar feeding and therefore irrelevant. ...


This is a explanation of what happens to calcium after being deposited in the leaf tissue, whether it be by absorption from plant sap or by direrct FOLIAR spray application.


... The only documents that you list that seem support your statement that foliar feeding of calcium works are not papers published in peer reviewed journals. In particular,

"Selenium, zinc and calcium rich banana cultivation method " (https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103650848A/en)

is a patent and people do not have to prove that a patent works to get one. It is my experience that most patents don't work.

Haifa Group is a business that lies for profit.

I am done speaking to you because I don't deserve the difficult task of finding relevancies in your prolific pile of irrelevancies. I suggest that you only speak to fools who deserve it.


Even 'for profit' business promoting their methods and products cited relevant researcher's work to prove the method and/or products.


Further, this is a Forum of Home/Hobby Grower of Bananas where we share our knowledge gain by 'first hand' experience. ... BTW ... Current fertilizer programs by & for Banana Plantation is to apply approximately 25% at planting by soil application for the first 3 or 4 months; then by soil side dressing, fertigation, or foliar spray apply 40% of needed fertilizer for a 70% total of the plant requirement by the time of shooting; THEN by FOLIAR spray apply the next 30% of the plant requirements directly to the upper plant & Bunch. This includes ALL the NPK, Macros (calcium), and Minors



Further, WE ARE NOT a Peer REVIEW group of any research papers and more especially a near 40 year old research paper you referenced. ... That said paper was a study of calcium and only explained what happen to calcium inside the banana plant. That paper has nothing to do with Foliar spray applications as it was not part of that study. ... You have NO foundation to claim Foliar application of calcium does not work as YOU STATED. That was YOUR assumption or concussion.



You sir, are total BS!

Botanical_Bryce
07-29-2018, 01:07 PM
There are no conclusive peer reviewed studies, but evidence does suggest that foliar calcium spray does infact have a profound effect on forum arguing and may significantly contribute to it.

edwmax
07-29-2018, 03:23 PM
Yes, but there are plenty of studies of Foliar spray benefits and field trials by product manufactures along with leaf analysis proving the the different elements are readily absorbed by the plants within a few hours vs days or weeks by plant roots. ... Bananas top & bottom of leaf sprayed, 100% absorption less than 30 hours.

Tytaylor77
08-04-2018, 02:45 AM
I will end this argument!

You spray calcium on the leaf! One or more of the following happens!!!
A. It is absorbed by the leaf!
.......1. It’s either used or stored!
.......2. Weather used or stored it will be good! If stored: When the leaf dies and turns into mulch/litter the calcium will still be available and used by the roots!
B. It drains down onto the ground and is used by the roots!

So no matter what! I can’t see how spraying, misting, pouring, scooping, dumping, or applying calcium can be bad! Just don’t overdo it!

Besides I would wager a lot of money that the problems of the leaf/roller leaf in the beginning was not a major/minor nutrient problem! 90% of these problems in my experience is due to a lot of heavy rain/watering or a little too much fertilizer! Just stop all water and fertilizer for a week or 2 and see if it straightens out before you try to add stuff!

The brown areas around the roller leaf I see all the time! When dew or rain gets into the pstem where the roller comes out and the sun hits it what does it do? It maginifies the sun! As it does this the drop of water causes the sun to burn this little patch of roller leaf!

This is combined with the fact the leaf may be and most likely is already weakened due to “fast growth” there is nothing wrong with fast growth! I grow for fruit! Not looks! When I’m pushing my plants and DONT see curved leafs and messed up rollers then that’s a sign to UP the fertilizer and water!

Put me to the test! Stop all water and fertilizer for 2 weeks (the current roller shows what happened 1-2 weeks ago) if you stop for 2 weeks you will get a normal pretty roller! Try me!

beam2050
08-04-2018, 06:31 AM
There are no conclusive peer reviewed studies, but evidence does suggest that foliar calcium spray does infact have a profound effect on forum arguing and may significantly contribute to it.

LOL...…………..wonder if it can make my thumb green?

venturabananas
08-04-2018, 08:17 AM
So no matter what! I can’t see how spraying, misting, pouring, scooping, dumping, or applying calcium can be bad! Just don’t overdo it!


The "don't overdo it" part is key, particularly if you have a boron deficiency that you have mistaken as a calcium deficiency. Excess calcium exacerbates boron deficiency, as I learned from personal experience.