View Full Version : OFA Short Course, Siam Ruby
Gabe15
07-12-2008, 12:06 PM
Is anyone else from here attending the OFA Short Course in Columbus? I'm here now (and we be the whole time). It seems as though the nursery folks have really taken a liking to 'Siam Ruby', they are everywhere, and even noted thier increasing popularity in one of the sessions I attended. I'm hoping to maybe find some interesting color forms of it, and maybe some other interesting bananas too. Other than that, there have been a few 'High Color Mini', M. acuminata subsp. zebrina and a M. basjoo or two. The trade show exhibits open up tommarow, so I'll be on the lookout for new and interesting things.
jpfloors
07-12-2008, 12:12 PM
Have fun at the show Gabe! Take some pics for us.
Gabe15
07-12-2008, 12:35 PM
PS- They also mentioned that 'Siam Ruby' has the highest royalty of any herbaceous plant in the industry right now, they just didn't mention who that royalty is paid to!
Zac in NC
07-12-2008, 12:38 PM
Have fun.
Zac
damaclese
07-12-2008, 12:46 PM
Is anyone else from here attending the OFA Short Course in Columbus? I'm here now (and we be the whole time). It seems as though the nursery folks have really taken a liking to 'Siam Ruby', they are everywhere, and even noted thier increasing popularity in one of the sessions I attended. I'm hoping to maybe find some interesting color forms of it, and maybe some other interesting bananas too. Other than that, there have been a few 'High Color Mini', M. acuminata subsp. zebrina and a M. basjoo or two. The trade show exhibits open up tommarow, so I'll be on the lookout for new and interesting things.
take pics Gabe and get me a ruby lol all gladly pay u tuesday for a banana today lol have fun and keep us posted
Chironex
07-12-2008, 12:56 PM
Pauly I have one that I bought from Brian's Botanicals, so we are in business. It's small now, but starting to grow faster.
natedogg1026
07-12-2008, 01:18 PM
If you see any 50/50's I'd gladly pay for one. Actually you could probably unload several of them on here. Don't inconvenience youself though. Have fun and shoot some pics for us. We'd love to see them!
Tropicallvr
07-12-2008, 02:39 PM
PS- They also mentioned that 'Siam Ruby' has the highest royalty of any herbaceous plant in the industry right now, they just didn't mention who that royalty is paid to!
So some guy found "siam ruby" growing in PNG, and got a good lawyer, and now is making tons of money off of it? If that's what happened that's crazy, I can't wait till I get my Basjoo X 'Siam Ruby' in the works(just kidding).
MediaHound
07-12-2008, 03:12 PM
Make the most of it Gabe, enjoy!
Gabe15
07-12-2008, 04:22 PM
So some guy found "siam ruby" growing in PNG, and got a good lawyer, and now is making tons of money off of it? If that's what happened that's crazy, I can't wait till I get my Basjoo X 'Siam Ruby' in the works(just kidding).
I was actually just wondering that myself...what the rules behind patents are. Seemed a little odd that they could do that with a wild collected plant, but I guess its possible...or they lied it about maybe??? who knows.
So far, I've seen one 50/50, but it was in a display, hopefully there will be some for sale tomorrow.
Gabe15
07-12-2008, 05:02 PM
I just noticed Agri-Starts has a booth...could lead to something interesting.
Tropicallvr
07-12-2008, 05:35 PM
I just noticed Agri-Starts has a booth...could lead to something interesting.
Have fun hob nobbing with all the banana nuts, and the other TCers!
chong
07-12-2008, 07:42 PM
I was actually just wondering that myself...what the rules behind patents are. Seemed a little odd that they could do that with a wild collected plant, but I guess its possible...or they lied it about maybe??? who knows.
So far, I've seen one 50/50, but it was in a display, hopefully there will be some for sale tomorrow.
That's no biggie. If I wanted to TC Siam Ruby for sale, I'd just call it differently - like Siam Red, or even the original "Ace of Hearts", unless that one is Copyrighted.
Bananaman88
07-12-2008, 07:54 PM
I was actually just wondering that myself...what the rules behind patents are. Seemed a little odd that they could do that with a wild collected plant, but I guess its possible...or they lied it about maybe??? who knows.
So far, I've seen one 50/50, but it was in a display, hopefully there will be some for sale tomorrow.
I was under the impression that one of the main guys from Plant Delights Nursery brought it back from one of his collecting trips to Thailand or Vietnam. If that's the case and he got it TC'd couldn't he charge royalties? PDN is who I got mine from.
Gabe15
07-12-2008, 09:09 PM
I was under the impression that one of the main guys from Plant Delights Nursery brought it back from one of his collecting trips to Thailand or Vietnam. If that's the case and he got it TC'd couldn't he charge royalties? PDN is who I got mine from.
He collected it at a market, after it was already for sale. The original plant was found in the wild (I first heard Indonesia, only years later did the the PNG story come up, I don't know which is true) and sold to a collector for something like $2000. Then you could buy them in Asia for a bit, but they were wholesale $500 each. It finally came down to about $100 in Thailand, but once it really hit the US...well, you know the status now.
xavierdlc61887
07-12-2008, 09:18 PM
wow maybe someone here *cough *cough GABE make a AEAE/SIAM RUBY :P j/k but all sorts deformed colors
damaclese
07-13-2008, 09:54 AM
i asked my mom about the patient thing she worked for a patint firm for 35 years and she said that you cant patint a plant that is found growing in the wild but if you propagate it and give it a name then its your property and you could Patint that offspring however she also said that if some one could prove that the new plants were exactly like the original in a Court of law that you could fours the removal of the original patient she added that that would be almost pointless unless there was some kind of good pay off for doing it just thought you all would like to know!
Gabe15
07-13-2008, 05:41 PM
I just talked to some wholesale growers, and one told me that royalties may be payed to anyone who introduces a new plant to the company, no matter where it came from (wild collected, thru breeding, TC sport etc...). These are from contracts drawn up between the seller and whoever gave them the plant, and do not need to involve any sort of patent. In this case it would be a "thanks" to the donor, and not a restriction on propagation for others who acquire it, unless they included that in the contract in some form.
xavierdlc61887
07-13-2008, 05:43 PM
ok so if ive had a manzano plant handed down for 3 generations then i can give it to agristarts and they will pay me for it???? just an example though but is that what it means???
Gabe15
07-13-2008, 06:11 PM
ok so if ive had a manzano plant handed down for 3 generations then i can give it to agristarts and they will pay me for it???? just an example though but is that what it means???
ya, pretty much, but you'd need something that will sell (something rare or unique), because if it doesn't sell very well then the company will not be able to pay you anything for it.
sandy0225
07-13-2008, 07:29 PM
We usually go every year but opted not to go this year. It's not really geared much towards my size of operation! They show a lot of large equipment that wouldn't fit into my potting area, and watering booms that wouldn't fit in my small greenhouses, etc. And chemicals I can't afford to even use, or wouldn't want to because you'd need so much protective gear.
I've also learned that just because something is prominently displayed at the OFA also doesn't mean it will sell well next year. My Salvia Argentea that I have 20 pots of just sitting here was prominently displayed at several booths last year. I can't hardly give the stuff away this year.
Agristarts, and Liner Farms and Rancho Tissue Technologies usually have booths there are good sources of banana liners.
All in all it's a good time though!
xavierdlc61887
07-13-2008, 07:37 PM
lol my bad should put AEAE :P
Gabe15
07-13-2008, 07:39 PM
lol my bad should put AEAE :P
Agri-Starts actually tried to TC 'Aeae' for over 4 years, and after all that time were only able to produce about 7 variegated plants from TC.
xavierdlc61887
07-13-2008, 07:42 PM
yeah i was kidding though...u told me its pretty hard to Tc that since they all turn out all green :P anyways it was just a point that u were making that any kind could be TCed and gotten paid for it..... i was just messing around since thats pretty messed up :P
Rmplmnz
07-13-2008, 07:46 PM
Does anyone have anything to report on the fruit of Siam Ruby.......after the novelty wears off...taste is king for me:-)
Tropicallvr
07-13-2008, 08:34 PM
That makes sense with a plant like 'Siam Ruby' where it was a really limited plant, hard to find in the wild, and selling for a high price.
Cutting out the middle man would probably be even be more profitable(TCing yourself), but it would be alot more work it seems. Looking foward to trying some TCing myself in the near future.
coconut chris
12-25-2008, 04:13 PM
I am curious What the fruit is like
I have a few in the ground near the river about 3 ' tall
I know very little about this pretty plant
damaclese
12-27-2008, 09:41 AM
Unless i missed the thread iv red repeatedly from other members here on the Org that to date now ones had the Siam Ruby fruit i cant member who said it but i think that 4ft is been the tallest that any one has gotten to my Siam is about 2ft tall and is about 6 months old it needs allot of light but so far my SR doesn't like allot of direct sun light but as i live in the high desert of NV sunset zone 12 are Ultraviolet light is high on a good day so most bananas burn easily also it dose aper to not have a large canopy of leafs maybe another indicator of why they don't fruit easily this is all speculation on my part Gab would you care to comment on any of this? this is a Reference to another thread on growing under lights but i have the SR under a predominantly red spectrum light and its not growing all that fast I'm going to move it under blue light soon and see if it responds like my green leafed guys do the more i study this light thing the more iv come to realize that its the single most important component of successful culture i fully intend to get my SR to fruit if i do all let you all know also my Plant has some unusual markings on it it has white and yellow dots that aper as the leaf ages don't know what thees are as of yet but it mite be a reason my Plant is growing so slowly. Just throw Observation i can tell they don't have a large amount of chlorophyll however the blue light stimulates chlorophyll development in the green Bananas so again all see if the blue light doesn't help a bit sorry if iv straide a bit off topic but i think this is relevant to this thread
Gabe15
12-27-2008, 01:08 PM
I have heard 2 main different accounts on the origins of this plant, one which suggests it is a seeded wild variety and one which suggests it is a edible seedless variety. To date, I have not seen any plant fruit, heard any reports of it fruiting or even read any characteristics of its fruit. However, it is fairly new to the market and shortly it should become clear what it is. I am sure it has fruited many times and someone knows what it is, but that information is not widely known yet.
harveyc
12-27-2008, 04:09 PM
There have been reports of drug companies "discovering" plants in rainforests with the potential of use in drug manufacturing and have patented these plants, thereby restricting even native populations from using them. I don't know how much of that is true. Sometimes legends get made up by people with a bias against corporations, etc.
Plant licenses have become more widely used in the past couple of decades. A plant patent expires in 20 years but a license can last forever. I know of some stone fruits and a citrus subject to plant licenses. In the case of the stone fruits, a fairly large family grower (Jim Ito) and packing house discovered some sports and reproduced these and began marketing them with good results. They then licensed the new varieties to other growers and these growers could not propagate the plants and were required to market all of their production through Jim Ito. This was very restrictive but the individual growers still did very well because of the reputation Ito had developed for the varieties. It was a win-win situation. A recent citrus variety was licensed with similar restrictions to a California packing house. I believe there are table grapes with similar licenses.
I believe for a patent to be enforceable the plant must be labeled. I don't recall seeing a patent number on the Siam Ruby I had purchased. I certainly did not execute a license agreement.
I'm curious how anyone can be demanding a royalty on Siam Ruby.
I'm no lawyer. Just my $.02.
Gabe15
12-27-2008, 09:24 PM
There is a company that holds the license to 'Siam Ruby', unfortunately I forget who it was. At the OFA Short Course over this past summer, they mentioned it had the highest royalty payment percent of any new horticultural ornamental plant in the US, something like 20 cents per plant (maybe up to 30...I can't quite remember) for cheap plugs. Agristarts and other companies are allowed to propagate it but they pay the royalties to the other company.
Chironex
12-27-2008, 09:32 PM
There have been reports of drug companies "discovering" plants in rainforests with the potential of use in drug manufacturing and have patented these plants, thereby restricting even native populations from using them. I don't know how much of that is true. Sometimes legends get made up by people with a bias against corporations, etc.
Plant licenses have become more widely used in the past couple of decades. A plant patent expires in 20 years but a license can last forever. I know of some stone fruits and a citrus subject to plant licenses. In the case of the stone fruits, a fairly large family grower (Jim Ito) and packing house discovered some sports and reproduced these and began marketing them with good results. They then licensed the new varieties to other growers and these growers could not propagate the plants and were required to market all of their production through Jim Ito. This was very restrictive but the individual growers still did very well because of the reputation Ito had developed for the varieties. It was a win-win situation. A recent citrus variety was licensed with similar restrictions to a California packing house. I believe there are table grapes with similar licenses.
I believe for a patent to be enforceable the plant must be labeled. I don't recall seeing a patent number on the Siam Ruby I had purchased. I certainly did not execute a license agreement.
I'm curious how anyone can be demanding a royalty on Siam Ruby.
I'm no lawyer. Just my $.02.
Yes, some wine grapes and table grapes have royalties due when sold, and one must enter into a non-propagation agreement. Many of the cultivars developed at Cornell are this way. So too are grape varieties developed by the U of MN, Elmer Swenson and several others.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.