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harveyc
07-07-2008, 10:25 PM
Joe Real gave me a Dwarf Brazilian pup last summer and I was hoping for it to flower early this year. We didn't get below 28-30F or so this past winter and some leaves retained green throughout the winter ....much nicer than when we got down to 20F the prior winter and everything got killed down to the corms! Growth on my Dwarf Brazilian seemed kind of slow this year and the leaves were spaced close together. A pup that started last year has almost caught up to the mother plant. Anyways, the leaves were packed so closely together and a neighboring Raja Puri is leaning into it that I did not even notice the flat. I checked it out more closely, moving a Raja Puri leaf out of the way and saw it had a flower! :)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11035&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11035&ppuser=775)

natedogg1026
07-07-2008, 10:32 PM
Congrats Harvey!

mskitty38583
07-07-2008, 10:40 PM
wahoo! congrats on the bloom!:choochoo::choochoo::choochoo:. now i knw what to look forward too! great job!

Richard
07-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Congratulations!

:woohoonaner:

Greenie
07-08-2008, 12:49 AM
good job!

dablo93
07-08-2008, 03:43 AM
congrats with your flower:)

bencelest
07-08-2008, 08:55 AM
Wow! Harvey. Very nice!!!
I still have to see mine from Joe's Brazilian.

island cassie
07-08-2008, 09:03 AM
Harvey - that's beautiful!

Cassie

Dean W.
07-08-2008, 10:14 AM
Looks great!:2748:

Taylor
07-08-2008, 10:34 AM
Great job, Harvey. Looks like you had a nice winter!

harveyc
07-08-2008, 10:40 AM
I should mention that the pseudostem is only a little over five feet tall. Maybe it was just because of the timing when the banana went dormant over the winter. Joe Real reports it usually fruits at something around 6-7 feet, as I recall. Joe Also mentions that this Dwarf Brazilian fruits for him more reliably here in USDA zone 9 than even California Gold and that the fruits taste better. I don't have a California Gold that is at fruiting stage right now but may have a chance to compare them both side-by-side next year, though my Dwarf Brazilian pup is further ahead right now than either of my two California Gold pups.

harveyc
07-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Okay, here's an update. I measured it and it bloomed at only 54 inches!

Another pup also emerged after the first photo. Here's an updated photo taken today, one week later.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11353&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11353&ppuser=775)

harveyc
07-14-2008, 03:28 PM
I should also point out that the one leaf on the left doesn't look great, but I'm proud of it as it made it through our winter. I think our low this winter only got down to somewhere like 28F-30F. We had a lot of days in the upper 30s, however, and chill hours (counted for temperate fruits) was above normal.

Chironex
07-14-2008, 04:12 PM
Harvey, I am happy for you. Please tell us more about the "chill hours" and how it works. That is interesting.
Thanks for the nice pic's too. Congrat's, looking forward to hearing about your taste test.

harveyc
07-14-2008, 04:28 PM
Thanks, Scot.

Chill hours are counted as the number of hours during the winter season where the temperature was below 45F. Many fruits require 300, 500, or more chill hours to get the proper dormant resting period needed. If the chill hours are lower than required, bloom will often be staggered over a longer period of time and fruits will sometimes abort. Sometimes blooming is just reduced. This year my pluots had the best crop they've had in the 13 or so years I've had them. I thought I just needed different pollenators but it seems that the high chill hours this winter helped a great deal.

magicgreen
07-14-2008, 04:32 PM
Good going Harvey! Thanks for the photo.
Iam with Chironex concerning your weather.
Harvey how long does it stay that cold there? (28*-30*)
I know nothing of CA weather. Are those temps at night only, and warms up during the day?
I thought California and Florida stayed hot all the time till I got on this site and learned otherwise. Yea Yea I know......Iam an old dog that still needs to learn! LOL

Richard
07-14-2008, 05:57 PM
...
I thought California and Florida stayed hot all the time till I got on this site and learned otherwise.

ROFLOL! The southern-most location in California is north of Savannah GA. The ocean waters off California are cold, while Florida is under the influence of the warm Gulf. :)

magicgreen
07-14-2008, 06:02 PM
Thanks Richard!
Iam going to get a map and learn some more. Guess some things I just didnt learn or didnt care to learn.........who knows

harveyc
07-14-2008, 06:14 PM
And we all drive convertibles unless we have a surfboard that won't fit in the back seat! ;)

Those lows that I mentioned are just reached in the early morning. In January 2007 we had about a week where we had lows down into the lower 20s where I am at and it probably never got warmer than the mid 30s or so. Pretty miserable for what we're used to. I think most years we get lows around 26F to 28F but we do get some nice days mixed in the winter also. We also have many days of fog, though not this past year when we didn't get much rain.

California is often the hottest (Death Valley) and coldest (Truckee) spot in the USA on a particular day, so any generalization of California weather is going to be a great disservice.

In my area of the Sacramento Valley almonds begin to bloom in early February and some plants start leaving out shortly after that. Soil rarely freezes in my area (January 2007 was a rare event). Even if we have a normal winter the pseudostem of the hardier bananas will be fine and growth will start in April. This past winter was a bit warmer than normal and my California Gold bananas were ripening in January until 60mph winds with a strong rainstorm snapped my psedostem in half! :( And that was even though it didn't have that many leaves on it. They still did eventually ripen and tasted okay.

Raules
07-14-2008, 09:26 PM
Congratulations! :drum:beautiful bloom!:0517:

Kenzie_POM
07-15-2008, 09:10 AM
Awesome - To Cool.
Congradulations.
Keep em blooming.

harveyc
07-18-2008, 10:29 PM
I thought I'd keep this thread going with updates since things are progressing quickly. Our temperatures have been averaging about 58F for lows and 90F for highs, but we'll be getting warmer eventually.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11494&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11494&ppuser=775)



I'm wondering how many hands and fingers I might get. I won't be able to take photos like this much longer as the bloom is so close to the ground as it is. I was laying on the ground on my back and the tip of the flower is now only 27 inches from the ground. I may have to dig a hole for it to keep going!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11495&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11495&ppuser=775)

Lagniappe
07-18-2008, 10:56 PM
Thanks for posting this Harvey ! Do you know how tall the plant is to the tip of the tallest leaf ? You probably know where I'm goin with this .

microfarmer
07-18-2008, 11:28 PM
Lookin' good Harvey! :lurk:

harveyc
07-18-2008, 11:47 PM
Thanks for posting this Harvey ! Do you know how tall the plant is to the tip of the tallest leaf ? You probably know where I'm goin with this .

Hey, Pete, how high are your ceilings? Something you can squeeze 100 inches into???

The pup of this plant that emerged last year is actually slightly taller (total height, but it's newest leaf is sticking almost straight up.

In my album from last October I think I have a photo of Joe standing next to my plants sibling which was a fair bit taller, as I recall. Maybe the disruption of moving shrunk it??

bencelest
07-18-2008, 11:48 PM
very nice.

Lagniappe
07-18-2008, 11:57 PM
Hey, Pete, how high are your ceilings? Something you can squeeze 100 inches into???

The pup of this plant that emerged last year is actually slightly taller (total height, but it's newest leaf is sticking almost straight up.

In my album from last October I think I have a photo of Joe standing next to my plants sibling which was a fair bit taller, as I recall. Maybe the disruption of moving shrunk it??

You Guessed it...lol
Sheesh ,my cielings are 108 inches, about 3' too short . My plant is still only 4' . I'm thinking (hoping)that potting it would keep it on the short side ?
Great pics btw !

mskitty38583
07-19-2008, 10:28 AM
laying on your back in the dirt to take a pic of a nana flower....if thats not a nana feind i dont know what is. lol. beautiful flower!

harveyc
07-19-2008, 10:45 AM
2nd class fiend - I put down a burlap bag to lay on! LOL
:0493:

austinl01
07-19-2008, 10:58 AM
Great work! Congrats on the bloom.

microfarmer
07-19-2008, 11:32 AM
2nd class fiend - I put down a burlap bag to lay on! LOL
:0493:

LOL!:lurk:

island cassie
07-19-2008, 01:43 PM
Great bloom - reminds me of Audrey!!

Cassie

thebes11
07-20-2008, 08:17 PM
congrats, looks great Harvey...keep the updated pictures coming, even if you have to dig that hole.....especially if you have to dig the hole!!

harveyc
07-30-2008, 04:34 PM
Here's an updated phtoto:

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11915&ppuser=775><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11915&size=1 border=0></a>

Is it common for their to be male and female flowers in the same hand? I have about 40 fingers, it seems.

Richard
07-30-2008, 05:06 PM
Harvey, I'm totally enthused about your Dwarf Brazilian! I like the height, the fruit, and especially the idea mine will be that mature next year!

harveyc
07-30-2008, 05:15 PM
I'm excited too, Richard. I plan to plant a lot more of these. Joe Real says that it has been hardier for him than California Gold, so it's a keeper! I might try a full size Brazilian if I'm brave!

mskitty38583
07-30-2008, 05:58 PM
congrats harvey!:nanadrink:

harveyc
07-30-2008, 09:26 PM
In the I.D. thread I've got the photo of another banana that is going to flower soon. Now, if I could get one of my Dwarf Orinoco to flower. I know it's getting late in the year, but I would still get a kick out of having three bananas in fruit at once. Next year I should have more, though nothing like what Jon (pitangadiego) has going on!

CookieCows
07-30-2008, 09:41 PM
Just suscribed to this thread!! :lurk:

Deb

Greenie
07-31-2008, 09:37 PM
harveyc,
I hope you have plenty of patience.The Dwarf Brazilian takes forever to to ripen.Mine took over 5 month's:eek:

momoese
07-31-2008, 10:09 PM
I might try a full size Brazilian if I'm brave!

Tall Brazilian and Hawaiian Apple are one in the same. I got ya covered if you want to try your luck with those bad boys!

MediaHound
08-01-2008, 05:30 AM
I think I missed this thread, congrats Harvey!

harveyc
08-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Thanks, Jarred.

Also, I posted a question on a page back or so: Is it common for both female and male flowers to appear on the same hand? I had hands with finger counts of 7, 7, 7, 8, 8 and then the next hand appears to be 3 female and 5 male, or maybe just the fingers didn't develop correctly. The next 2-3 hands that have shown up are all male flowers which have dropped off but the tiny things on the 6th hand are still hanging on.

Gabe15
08-01-2008, 11:06 AM
Is it common for both female and male flowers to appear on the same hand?


This is very common but its occurrence varies by variety. Not that it really matters since for the hobbyist banana flowers are non-functional, but the basal flowers are usually female or bisexual, but before it completely switches to the distal male flowers, you will often see a slow transition with intermediate forms of both flowers occurring within hands and between hands as well, these transitional flowers may not form into fruit but will remain persistent while the male flowers fall off. This is not a consistent trait though as there are many different flower arrangements and forms within Musa.

jen
08-19-2008, 09:36 AM
I missed this post and this is a tree that was recommened I purchase. How is it doing? Do you have any updated pictures? I was wondering what you do with these dwarf nana's if they hit the ground like yours looks like it might? Dig a whole? Also, I have ants on the ground whenever a leaf drops they swarm it so I would worry that if I get one of these the ants will find there way up the plant.

Jen

Richard
08-19-2008, 10:26 AM
Jen, you need to show those ants who is the boss!! You can purchase a squeeze bottle of Boric Acid powder for a few dollars at a big-box store like home depot. It's made from the mineral Borax, which in California is mined out of the ground in the Mojave desert (right near Kramer's Junction). Ants absolutely hate it, and it safe for your pets and children. Put along your fence line, edge of the house, sidewalk crack where ants crawl, etc.

jen
08-19-2008, 10:40 AM
Oh that's good info. I have a california desert tortoise who eats everything and two kids. That would be amazing if there is something that works that is safe for the kiddos. I will check into that today. I'm running some errands and Lowes is on my list. Thanks again Richard. You are full of good info.

Jen

Bananaman88
08-19-2008, 11:14 AM
Richard just makes all this stuff up.....

Just kidding! He does always have a lot of good info.

harveyc
08-20-2008, 12:58 AM
I missed this post and this is a tree that was recommened I purchase. How is it doing? Do you have any updated pictures? I was wondering what you do with these dwarf nana's if they hit the ground like yours looks like it might? Dig a whole? Also, I have ants on the ground whenever a leaf drops they swarm it so I would worry that if I get one of these the ants will find there way up the plant.

Jen

Hi Jen,

The plant/flower have done well and I'll try to take an updated photo soon. I ended up with something like 42 fingers, I believe, with several hands of male flowers after that. I was waiting for at least 12 inches of flower after the last fruits before cutting it off but now I'm less than a foot from the ground and I may just let it go a bit further for the heck of it. I don't see it as a problem, though. I'll cut the flower before digging a hole. The largest pup of this plant is already a little taller than the original plant (from a pup given by Joe Real last year) so I don't think one needs to worry about the fruit touching the ground.

I don't have an ant problem and I have a messy farm yard so I'm not worrying about spent male flowers, etc. There are lots of honey bees enjoying them and no ants so far. I'm somewhat afraid of using borax around plants for ant protection since boron is already high in my soil and can become toxic. Around homes, sidewalks, etc. it can be very helpful, I've heard. I heard a while back that coffee grounds around some plants has worked great to deal with ant problems. Worth a try, though your problem doesn't seem to be around the plant itself.

harveyc
08-20-2008, 04:28 PM
Here is an updated photo of my Dwarf Brazilian bloom. I may wait until the bud touches the ground before cutting it off, just so I can take an interesting photo.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12589&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12589&ppuser=775)

mskitty38583
08-20-2008, 06:31 PM
nice looking bunch you got there harvey....i want to see you get under that one and take a pic!:ha::bananajoy::D

harveyc
09-12-2008, 04:15 PM
Well, I was going to wait until the flower bud actually touched the ground for the fun of it, but I was cutting other blooms today so I went ahead and cut this one today also. The bud came within 2 inches of touching the ground.

This is my earliest of three bananas to fruit this year and I'm hoping the removal of the bud will help divert more energy to the fruits.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13232&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13232&ppuser=775)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13233&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13233&ppuser=775)

Chironex
09-12-2008, 04:19 PM
I am hoping that by cutting your buds, it will send energy to MY banana plants, so that I can see a blossom this year. Nice job Harvey, lookin' good!

harveyc
09-12-2008, 04:21 PM
This plant has a pup that is taller than the momma but I don't want it to bloom this late in the year. Next May would be great, though! :D

NANAMAN
09-12-2008, 07:59 PM
Harvey, Congrats on the bunch! After looking at the pictures I couldn't help but notice that the bunch hangs vertically. The D. Brazillians I grew had horizontal hanging bunches at 10' height. Are you sure that it is a D.B.

harveyc
09-12-2008, 11:07 PM
Gosh, Brian, you're the second person to tell me today that they doubted it was a Dwarf Brazilian. Joe Real gave this pup to me and we dug it from his place and he says his is a Dwarf Brazilian. Joe also tells me that he got his Dwarf Brazilian from Going-Bananas which has a great reputation for being reliable. According to the wiki, Dwarf Brazilian fruits at 7.5 feet to 9 feet (or 6 to 8 feet described in a lower section). See Musa Dwarf Brazilian - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Musa_Dwarf_Brazilian). Going-bananas says 7-9 feet. But the fruit is more horizontal in the photo Ron posted in the wiki, such as you described. The same photo is on Agristart's web site (probably where Ron got it) and they describe it as 6-8 feet. At pitangadiego's site ENCANTO FARMS (http://webebananas.com/bvar-C-D.html), there are different photos from different sources and none of them seem to be horizontal.

Somebody have the DNA sequence for Dwarf Brazilian and want to test it for me??? ;)