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Chironex
07-03-2008, 05:47 PM
Just thought I would start this thread to let everyone post their opinions on the candidates. Officially, I do not approve of either candidate for one reason or another. Frankly, the whole thing is a frustrating, steaming pile of bovine excrement to me.

But here is an email I received today:

Below are a few lines from Obama's books; In his words!

From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attri butes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

And FINALLY the Most Damming one of ALL of them!!!

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'


Oh really????!!! It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for anyone with such radical views.

mskitty38583
07-04-2008, 02:38 PM
Chuck, moved to Texas and bought a donkey from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day. The next day he drove up and said, "Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the donkey died."

Chuck replied, "Well, then,just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."

Chuck said, "Ok, then, just bring me the dead donkey."

The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?

Chuck said, "I'm going to raffle him off."

The farmer said, "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"

Chuck said, "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead."

A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey? "

Chuck said, "I raffle d him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a profit of $898.00."

The farmer said, "Didn't anyone complain?"

Chuck said, "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."

Chuck grew up and works for the government.

CookieCows
07-04-2008, 02:49 PM
:ha::ha::ha:

chong
07-04-2008, 03:35 PM
Miss Sam, you are killing me! ! ! ! ! ! LMAO. I think I'll memorize that one for the next party.

southlatropical
07-04-2008, 03:54 PM
Just thought I would start this thread to let everyone post their opinions on the candidates. Officially, I do not approve of either candidate for one reason or another. Frankly, the whole thing is a frustrating, steaming pile of bovine excrement to me.

But here is an email I received today:

Below are a few lines from Obama's books; In his words!

From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attri butes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

And FINALLY the Most Damming one of ALL of them!!!

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'


Oh really????!!! It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for anyone with such radical views.

Did you read the book? Have you read these quotations in context to the rest of the book?

I am neither a fan of Barack Obama or John McCain. As a moderate I am screwed. What I do know in my simple mind is that everything I have is a direct result of working under some kind of union contract since I graduated high school. First I joined the electricians union. I was working at a body shop and the raise I was promised had not taken effect. I went to the owners office 'hat in hand' to inquire why the pay I was promised was not reflected on my check. He treated me like an aggrevation. Like it was a bother that I wanted the pay he had promised. That was the last time I ever begged for money. I quit. I joined a union. And since the age of 19 I've had health insurance and a pension.

With the exception a few poloticians on the east coast and a few from the Michigan/Missouri area, Republicans have consistantly and quietly taken positions that directly threaten my financial security. And most all Republicans oppose the very unions that have helped to put food on my table all these years. After hurricane Katrina presidant Bush suspended the Davis Bacaon Act allowing a flood of immigrant labor to replace local electricians in New Orleans. At a time of crisis our president put local victims out of work who were trying to rebuild their own city.
Bush Suspends Pay Act In Areas Hit by Storm (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/08/AR2005090802037.html)
Bush Suspends Davis-Bacon Wage Protection in Katrina Zone (http://voternewsnetwork.com/VNN/newsletters/october205.html)
Post-Katrina easing of labor laws stirs debate | csmonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1004/p01s01-woam.html)
John McCain supported this action.

In the late 70's and early 80's pay for construction workers in Louisiana was at a very high rate. While the rest of the country struggled with inflation and unemployment the construction of petro-chemical plants gave working people a way to comfortable middle class life. My father was included in this group as a pipeline welder and member of the pipefitters union. We always went to the doctor for check ups. And illness was not feared because we had health insurance through the union. Then under president Reagan came the push for the 'Right to Work Law'. To make a long story short this law has a nice name and a mean effect on wages.
Right to Work for Less (http://www.aflcio.org/issues/legislativealert/stateissues/work/)
In a nut shell, my young father and mother went from getting on their feet to hauling all of their kids out on the road looking for work. I've lived in New Mexico, New Jersey, New York, and Massachusetes. Thanks for the 8 year road trip Right to Work Law. The household median income for right to work states is substantially below non-right to work states. John McCain supports a national right to work law.

I could go on forever talking about the 'little ways' that republicans have screwed working people, but the bottom line is best explained by a joke.......

If your car is broke down on the side of the road and a car full of republicans passes by they will laugh while they sip champagne and smoke cigars.
If a car full of democrats passes by, they will stop and try to help but your car will end up more screwed up than it was in the first place.

I am from the south. I hunt and I'm pro-gun. I do not think abortion is right so I guess I'm pro life. But above all I'm pro-me. I need to make a decent living. And that is something that a republican has never given a **** about. I don't know who I'll vote for, but I will surely be gritting my teeth when I push the button.

Rush Limbaugh says that moderates have no conviction.....................as he sits in his mansion in S. Florida popping oxycontin waiting for his illegal immigrant maid to get him a sandwich.

CookieCows
07-04-2008, 04:16 PM
I know who I'm going to vote for but I'm going to be gritting my teeth too.

Deb

microfarmer
07-04-2008, 05:49 PM
Just thought I would start this thread to let everyone post their opinions on the candidates.

Flame suit on high!!

:lurk:

lorax
07-04-2008, 06:06 PM
I'm an expat Canadian in South America, but if I could vote in the US elections I'd be writing-in for Sen. Al Franken.

mskitty38583
07-05-2008, 11:05 AM
i didnt post ths video in the regulare way because it does have some graphic
scenes. it is very thought provoking.

Http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh289/Impish_Dragon/?action=view¤t=Untitled.flv

CookieCows
07-05-2008, 11:10 AM
I can't get it to come up. I just see a photo bucket page where you log in.

mskitty38583
07-05-2008, 11:25 AM
Video of Take just one minute - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh289/Impish_Dragon/?action=view&current=Untitled.flv)

You can do one fo two things to see this video. You can click on the hyper-link above, or you can copy, then paste it into your address bar.

chong
07-05-2008, 03:01 PM
Thanks Miss Sam,
I only know how it feels to wait for a son who was in the 82nd Airborne, who went to Panama and the Desert Storm. Thank Heavens he came home safely. Although somewhat emotionally affected, after a couple of years, he's able to put it behind him and he's now married and has three children.

Chironex
07-05-2008, 07:36 PM
Isaac, please read my post carefully once again, especially the first paragraph. I will not engage anyone in debate about their beliefs in this forum. These are THEIR beliefs, based upon their own background, culture, circumstances, etc. Far be it from me to judge an individual's rationale.

Loved the joke and the video, thank you!

Mason
07-07-2008, 08:42 PM
Chuck, moved to Texas and bought a donkey from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day. The next day he drove up and said, "Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the donkey died."

Chuck replied, "Well, then,just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."

Chuck said, "Ok, then, just bring me the dead donkey."

The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?

Chuck said, "I'm going to raffle him off."

The farmer said, "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"

Chuck said, "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead."

A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey? "

Chuck said, "I raffle d him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a profit of $898.00."

The farmer said, "Didn't anyone complain?"

Chuck said, "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."

Chuck grew up and works for the government.


That's a funny joke! But what does that have to do with the presidential canidates?

mskitty38583
07-07-2008, 10:34 PM
the last sentence, tells how chuck stole from people...and when he grew up he now works for the government. i think that to run for president it is require in some college courses that you learn to: lie, cheat and steal.

saltydad
07-08-2008, 12:30 AM
As a joke that is funny. But I grew up with a father who spent his career working for the Federal government as a statistician and economist in the Census Bureau. He was the hardest working and most honest man I have ever known. Every day of my life I hope to live as he did, may he rest in peace. Not debating here, just stating my experience. Something to keep in mind when we all joke about government workers. Thanks.

southlatropical
07-08-2008, 08:50 AM
Isaac, please read my post carefully once again, especially the first paragraph. I will not engage anyone in debate about their beliefs in this forum. These are THEIR beliefs, based upon their own background, culture, circumstances, etc. Far be it from me to judge an individual's rationale.

Loved the joke and the video, thank you!


I was not trying to debate. Polotics in our country just frustrates the heck out of me. I'm sure it has that effect on most people. I normally try to never talk polotics b/c it only gets me angry. I should'nt have even posted on this thread. There is so little focus on reasonable solutions to our problems. And what you get is so much attention and sensationalizing on non-issues. I only asked if you had read the book b/c I have not. Anything, words, voting records, ect. can be taken out of context.The media and the public in general, seem to talk more about wether or not this guy wore a flag pin. Or this candidtate may have had an affair with a lobbiest. That's why when a sensible middle of the road polotition runs for this office they never win. Where there are common sense, compromise solutions there is boredom. The only candidates that get air time are the ones that have a provocative storyline.

Mason
07-08-2008, 11:50 PM
the last sentence, tells how chuck stole from people...and when he grew up he now works for the government. i think that to run for president it is require in some college courses that you learn to: lie, cheat and steal.

I know. All the politicians nowadays are liars.

chong
07-08-2008, 11:57 PM
Hey, it's not easy being a politician these days, you know? They gotta work hard to be where they are. Or, is that to be what they are! LOL!

mskitty38583
07-25-2008, 12:23 PM
my dad sent this to me this morning...i laughed so hard i almost fell out the chair!


This Scot makes a valid point!

An email from Scotland to their brethren in the States...
'We, in Scotland , cannot figure out why you people are
even botherin' to hold an election in the United States
.On one side, ye have a pants-wearing lady lawyer, married
to another lawyer who can't keep his pants on, who just
lost a long and heated primary against another lawyer who
goes to the wrong church, who is married to yet another
lawyer who doesn't even like the country her husband
wants to run!
Now... On the other side, you have a nice, old war hero
whose name starts with the appropriate Mc terminology,
married to a good looking younger woman who just happens to
own a beer distributorship!
What in Lord's name are ye lads thinkin' over there
in the colonies

CookieCows
07-25-2008, 12:29 PM
my dad sent this to me this morning...i laughed so hard i almost fell out the chair!


This Scot makes a valid point!

An email from Scotland to their brethren in the States...
'We, in Scotland , cannot figure out why you people are
even botherin' to hold an election in the United States
.On one side, ye have a pants-wearing lady lawyer, married
to another lawyer who can't keep his pants on, who just
lost a long and heated primary against another lawyer who
goes to the wrong church, who is married to yet another
lawyer who doesn't even like the country her husband
wants to run!
Now... On the other side, you have a nice, old war hero
whose name starts with the appropriate Mc terminology,
married to a good looking younger woman who just happens to
own a beer distributorship!
What in Lord's name are ye lads thinkin' over there
in the colonies


That just made me bust out laughing :ha:

Deb :0519:

chong
07-25-2008, 01:49 PM
Hear! Hear! ! ! ! !

Thanks, Miss Sam.

saltydad
07-25-2008, 02:00 PM
Thanks Miss Sam,
I only know how it feels to wait for a son who was in the 82nd Airborne, who went to Panama and the Desert Storm. Thank Heavens he came home safely. Although somewhat emotionally affected, after a couple of years, he's able to put it behind him and he's now married and has three children.

Chong-

Hope your son is doing fine now. G-d bless him, from an old Army medic.

Howard

Kylie2x
07-25-2008, 06:38 PM
I fly The American Flag EVERYDAY.. I Pray for everyone who has made the choice to serve this great country and their families and the families of those who have lost there loved ones!!!
I'm not happy with the choices we have for President.. BUT I will be there to vote!!!
My Grandfather ,my Father, my Step Father and my Daughter are all Veterans!!!




I'm votin for Willie Nelson!!!

proletariatcsp
07-26-2008, 02:50 AM
Fellow Herbivores, and occasional Carnivores,

What I am about to say will probably not come as news to most of you here. From what I have gathered since joining is, there are allot of intelligent people on this forum. One can only conclude that abnormally high levels of potassium may have been directly attributed to herbaceous dieting. Therefor resulting in substantially increased levels of N-P-K, pH, and IQ, respectively. However. . .

The most frustrating concept of our democracy is the division of the presidential electoral process, and the manner for which we elect.

I’d often wonder if we would be without a president, if one was not elected. Only I know that we would have a president since the delegates would still determine the winner.

We, the ordinary and politically unaffiliated need not vote to secure the next likely candidates’ presidency, we merely push a button, punch a ticket, or check the appropriate box to keep our opponent from scoring tic-tac-toe.

If we like our choices or not, really does not matter–-but they should--and we have made it that way. I suppose there was a time when Democrats and Republicans shared such similar values and ideals that, if one candidate was unremarkable by his own resolve, than the people simply chose the better man.

Today the game is played by a much less complicated standard of principals. The electoral process has evolved into an insatiable quest for power, by a lifeless, emotionless, motivation of greed.

The enemy is upon us, though our own leader has betrayed and abandoned us as well. We now have but one choice, do we rise up and join the opposition or do we continue on our current path. We judge neither leader by his demeanor nor his tact, he may be without expression or smile mischievously, and still we are not concerned. It is in the words he will speak that lead us to agree or disagree with him only, we are bound by our conscience and fear our own hypocrisy.

For each of us, Republican and Democrat alike we know that the game is rigged, in that we cannot choose the candidates. So instead we choose a side, and be that as it may, any opposing candidate, one who would even appear to be better suited for the task would quickly be dismissed. As we close that curtain in November to justify our mark by saying, “I’ll be damned if I'll let a ----- win."

Some believe that it is irresponsible not to vote. I would like to reject that belief by simply saying, those who believe that, would rather elect a dictator or an imbecile, than to allow the opposition to win. That, is not only more irresponsible in my opinion but also reckless and immature.

Unfortunately that is the nature of our society, so I must vote and pretend to judge the candidate by his expressions of candor, his tact, and his clothes. Like that predisposition of social acceptance initiated in grade school, called a popularity contest. Which we now know as adults, taught us virtually nothing about what a person really was. And yet we continue to express ourselves with that same absence of logic.

So it is not surprising to hear intelligent people say that they believe we currently have a good president, when society shows us the way to be a leader is not by virtue of moral practices, but by our own egotistic prejudices.

It would be sweet to have a pure, politics-free president, but the last of those retired from office in 1797. And while we've all quoted the farewell address of "The Father Of Our Nation" for 211 years now, nobody seems to want to remember that its point was to urge his children that: whatever you do, for God's sake, don't form political parties, some day they will kill you. -Keith Olbermann

mskitty38583
07-26-2008, 07:29 AM
i just want someone in office who remembers and lives by this saying...."of the people, by the people, for the people, and in god we trust."

CookieCows
07-26-2008, 08:52 AM
Some believe that it is irresponsible not to vote. I would like to reject that belief by simply saying, those who believe that, would rather elect a dictator or an imbecile, than to allow the opposition to win. That, is not only more irresponsible in my opinion but also reckless and immature.

I thought forsure that there is a place to write in a candidate of your choice on the ballot if you do not want to vote for either party running.

fishman0422
07-26-2008, 09:22 AM
my dad sent this to me this morning...i laughed so hard i almost fell out the chair!


This Scot makes a valid point!

An email from Scotland to their brethren in the States...
'We, in Scotland , cannot figure out why you people are
even botherin' to hold an election in the United States
.On one side, ye have a pants-wearing lady lawyer, married
to another lawyer who can't keep his pants on, who just
lost a long and heated primary against another lawyer who
goes to the wrong church, who is married to yet another
lawyer who doesn't even like the country her husband
wants to run!
Now... On the other side, you have a nice, old war hero
whose name starts with the appropriate Mc terminology,
married to a good looking younger woman who just happens to
own a beer distributorship!
What in Lord's name are ye lads thinkin' over there
in the colonies

That IS funny! Just goes to prove some of us are er...uh.. well......um...... aw forget it.

fishman0422
07-26-2008, 09:49 AM
Some believe that it is irresponsible not to vote. I would like to reject that belief by simply saying, those who believe that, would rather elect a dictator or an imbecile, than to allow the opposition to win. That, is not only more irresponsible in my opinion but also reckless and immature.



While I can clearly see that if you and I sat down to chat over a cup of coffee I would have a hard time seeing eye to eye with your opinions and positions on politics.
I do, however, agree with the above quote. (Other than the DICTATOR part, we can't have one in this country) NOT VOTING IS VOTING! Just be sure that you are registered. If you are registered you are prepared to vote. When you do not approve of the candidates in question, hell yeah - stay home! A vote for no one is a vote for neither. HOWEVER, if your gonna be one of those who complains down the road saying "I knew that bum was gonna be no good" and you liked the other guy, you are not using the not voting route correctly.

mskitty38583
07-26-2008, 10:27 AM
That IS funny! Just goes to prove some of us are er...uh.. well......um...... aw forget it.

it is funny when other people in other countries see how stupid politics in our country is but we cant see it here. almost makes one go crazy!

mike
07-26-2008, 02:46 PM
My beliefs are for the greater good of everyone. The way things are going gives me job security. A lot of people only think about themselves. A lot of people feel if they are not suffering then they can care less about everyone else and thats not me. If you are the in minority and this administration actually benefited you, then think about this.

If you sell a product there now are millions of people who are not going to be able to afford to purchase it but on the upside you will pay less taxes. You or your kids, grands, will soon follow the millions to the bottom.

Millions of immigrants working jobs formally held by Americans not paying taxes and sending their money to other country's.

Immigrants buying all the businesses formally owned by American's and only hiring people from their country.

Politicians only supporting immigrants needs because they owned the businesses and now are the middle class.

While we are worrying about a sound bite, a sentence out of a book, white or black, American's are becoming a minority in America.

Formally hard working honest American's turning to drugs or criminal activity because they are not able to cope. You can say this is bull ---- because you are not there. Tell me that when you are.

More kids growing up without parents because having no money causes stress and even more divorce. If you are able to, think what you would do to house and feed your kids. Most people won't just lie down and die they will do WHATEVER it takes.

If you are fortunate, you never had to want or need for anything and you never will. If for some reason you have to, well you know what usually happens to rich people that lose their money.

I can't see the future and I am of average intelligence as you may be able to tell. I saw this coming six years ago but we decided to continued on the same path.

Think about the things that are occurring and theses things already happen. Some of us will not live to see these things get to bad to were there is no fixes. Our kids and grands will.

I somewhat understand what it takes to be a politician. If you honestly believe that the most honest, the most religious or most moral people always win then you are a ------- lets just say you are wrong. If you believe everything that you read or see on T.V. then you are a even bigger -----. We are all born with gifts these gifts are what make us what or who we are. Know that most people are followers and not leaders. Most people feel one way or another because they learned to feel this way as a child or someone they strive to be like feels this way. These feelings are not yours. You are a follower.

We are all taught things growing up. Leaders live their lives and learn and form there own thoughts and options even if they go against what their peers feel. Leaders sometime use the fact they are to mislead or victimize to make money. Vote for who you want but please don't make false excuses why you don't want to vote for Obama. Be proud of who or what you are and be honest with yourself. If you don't like the direction this country is going and you really won't vote for Obama because he did not wear a pen, his wife said something that caused you pause, you think he is a Muslim, you don't like the comments of his Christian preacher then you have issues. If it's for the other reason then thats your reason but stop making yourself look like an ----.

Here is a project, get a recorder and record an hour conversation and let someone take a comment out that is not flattering if the statement does not come across the way you have meant for it to or they just get stuck on a certain statement (sound bite) just to get a little idea what these guys go through and let it be broadcast to your peers.

Another project, list all the people that you grew up with or around, list all the people that you have ever worked with, people you know now and family members. Now if you are a person that there is no record of you doing anything illegal or immoral and we ( people that don't know you) had to judge you by what the worst people on this list have done will you come out as clean as Obama. Enough of this bull---- I have bananas to feed, water and watch grow.
:2722:

chong
07-26-2008, 04:15 PM
My beliefs are for the greater good of everyone. The way things are going gives me job security. . . . . .. . . . . .. . . about this.

If . . . .. . . .. ..

Millions of immigrants . . . . . . . . ..

. . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . Leaders sometime use the fact they are to mislead or victimize to make money. Vote for who you want but please don't make false excuses why you don't want to vote for Obama. Be proud of who or what you are and be honest with yourself. If you don't like the direction this country is going and you really won't vote for Obama because he did not wear a pen, his wife said something that caused you pause, you think he is a Muslim, you don't like the comments of his Christian preacher then you have issues. If it's for the other reason then thats your reason but stop making yourself look like an ----.

Here is a project, get a recorder and record an hour conversation and let someone take a comment out that is not flattering if the statement does not come across the way you have meant for it to or they just get stuck on a certain statement (sound bite) just to get a little idea what these guys go through and let it be broadcast to your peers.

Another project, list all the people that you grew up with or around, list all the people that you have ever worked with, people you know now and family members. Now if you are a person that there is no record of you doing anything illegal or immoral and we ( people that don't know you) had to judge you by what the worst people on this list have done will you come out as clean as Obama. Enough of this bull---- I have bananas to feed, water and watch grow.
:2722:

Normally, I would not want to get entangled in political discussions with someone that I just heard from for the first time. But since, your assumption is that anyone not wanting to vote for Obama is based on “false excuses”, which you listed, is a “_____”, and that they should admit that it is because of “the other reason”, so you can stop calling them a “_____”, I need to ask, “What is ‘the other reason’?” Is “the other reason”, his voting record in the state and US senate? His experience as the Chairman of the Senate Oversight on Afgahnistan Committee? His overall experience? That they don’t know him? ? ? ? ?

Or, is it something derogatory? Not politically correct? If, so, then they deserve to be called “______”. I think that’s fair.

One of the things I've learned, in my old age, is that when people have formed their opinion on an issue, in any discussion, it is always counterproductive, not to mention disrespectful, to label them based on my perceived concept of the reason for their opinion. In fact, why label anyone, you’re talking to, at all? Conversation is a two-way street. I respect everyone’s personal opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it, and would be glad, if not honored, to discuss it with them. But I certainly would hope that the other party would extend the same respect for mine.

saltydad
07-26-2008, 05:08 PM
Normally, I would not want to get entangled in political discussions with someone that I just heard from for the first time. But since, your assumption is that anyone not wanting to vote for Obama is based on “false excuses”, which you listed, is a “_____”, and that they should admit that it is because of “the other reason”, so you can stop calling them a “_____”, I need to ask, “What is ‘the other reason’?” Is “the other reason”, his voting record in the state and US senate? His experience as the Chairman of the Senate Oversight on Afgahnistan Committee? His overall experience? That they don’t know him? ? ? ? ?

Or, is it something derogatory? Not politically correct? If, so, then they deserve to be called “______”. I think that’s fair.

One of the things I've learned, in my old age, is that when people have formed their opinion on an issue, in any discussion, it is always counterproductive, not to mention disrespectful, to label them based on my perceived concept of the reason for their opinion. In fact, why label anyone, you’re talking to, at all? Conversation is a two-way street. I respect everyone’s personal opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it, and would be glad, if not honored, to discuss it with them. But I certainly would hope that the other party would extend the same respect for mine.

As a member of Veterans for Obama....QFT

momoese
07-26-2008, 07:59 PM
As a member of Veterans for Obama....QFT

Just curious what the abbreviation QFT stands for. You can pm me if you don't want to post it.

momoese
07-26-2008, 08:04 PM
My beliefs are for the greater good of everyone. The way things are going gives me job security. A lot of people only think about themselves. A lot of people feel if they are not suffering then they can care less about everyone else and thats not me. If you are the in minority and this administration actually benefited you, then think about this.

If you sell a product there now are millions of people who are not going to be able to afford to purchase it but on the upside you will pay less taxes. You or your kids, grands, will soon follow the millions to the bottom.

Millions of immigrants working jobs formally held by Americans not paying taxes and sending their money to other country's.

Immigrants buying all the businesses formally owned by American's and only hiring people from their country.

Politicians only supporting immigrants needs because they owned the businesses and now are the middle class.

While we are worrying about a sound bite, a sentence out of a book, white or black, American's are becoming a minority in America.

Formally hard working honest American's turning to drugs or criminal activity because they are not able to cope. You can say this is bull ---- because you are not there. Tell me that when you are.

More kids growing up without parents because having no money causes stress and even more divorce. If you are able to, think what you would do to house and feed your kids. Most people won't just lie down and die they will do WHATEVER it takes.

If you are fortunate, you never had to want or need for anything and you never will. If for some reason you have to, well you know what usually happens to rich people that lose their money.

I can't see the future and I am of average intelligence as you may be able to tell. I saw this coming six years ago but we decided to continued on the same path.

Think about the things that are occurring and theses things already happen. Some of us will not live to see these things get to bad to were there is no fixes. Our kids and grands will.

I somewhat understand what it takes to be a politician. If you honestly believe that the most honest, the most religious or most moral people always win then you are a ------- lets just say you are wrong. If you believe everything that you read or see on T.V. then you are a even bigger -----. We are all born with gifts these gifts are what make us what or who we are. Know that most people are followers and not leaders. Most people feel one way or another because they learned to feel this way as a child or someone they strive to be like feels this way. These feelings are not yours. You are a follower.

We are all taught things growing up. Leaders live their lives and learn and form there own thoughts and options even if they go against what their peers feel. Leaders sometime use the fact they are to mislead or victimize to make money. Vote for who you want but please don't make false excuses why you don't want to vote for Obama. Be proud of who or what you are and be honest with yourself. If you don't like the direction this country is going and you really won't vote for Obama because he did not wear a pen, his wife said something that caused you pause, you think he is a Muslim, you don't like the comments of his Christian preacher then you have issues. If it's for the other reason then thats your reason but stop making yourself look like an ----.

Here is a project, get a recorder and record an hour conversation and let someone take a comment out that is not flattering if the statement does not come across the way you have meant for it to or they just get stuck on a certain statement (sound bite) just to get a little idea what these guys go through and let it be broadcast to your peers.

Another project, list all the people that you grew up with or around, list all the people that you have ever worked with, people you know now and family members. Now if you are a person that there is no record of you doing anything illegal or immoral and we ( people that don't know you) had to judge you by what the worst people on this list have done will you come out as clean as Obama. Enough of this bull---- I have bananas to feed, water and watch grow.
:2722:

I agree with much of what you say, just not the way you say it.

CookieCows
07-26-2008, 09:11 PM
One of the things I've learned, in my old age, is that when people have formed their opinion on an issue, in any discussion, it is always counterproductive, not to mention disrespectful, to label them based on my perceived concept of the reason for their opinion. In fact, why label anyone, you’re talking to, at all? Conversation is a two-way street. I respect everyone’s personal opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it, and would be glad, if not honored, to discuss it with them. But I certainly would hope that the other party would extend the same respect for mine.

What a wonderful world it would be!

Deb

saltydad
07-26-2008, 10:42 PM
QFT= Quoted For Truth

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 02:30 AM
My beliefs are for the greater good of everyone. The way things are going gives me job security. A lot of people only think about themselves. A lot of people feel if they are not suffering then they can care less about everyone else and thats not me. If you are the in minority and this administration actually benefited you, then think about this.

If you sell a product there now are millions of people who are not going to be able to afford to purchase it but on the upside you will pay less taxes. You or your kids, grands, will soon follow the millions to the bottom.

Millions of immigrants working jobs formally held by Americans not paying taxes and sending their money to other country's.

Immigrants buying all the businesses formally owned by American's and only hiring people from their country.

Politicians only supporting immigrants needs because they owned the businesses and now are the middle class.

While we are worrying about a sound bite, a sentence out of a book, white or black, American's are becoming a minority in America.

Formally hard working honest American's turning to drugs or criminal activity because they are not able to cope. You can say this is bull ---- because you are not there. Tell me that when you are.

More kids growing up without parents because having no money causes stress and even more divorce. If you are able to, think what you would do to house and feed your kids. Most people won't just lie down and die they will do WHATEVER it takes.

If you are fortunate, you never had to want or need for anything and you never will. If for some reason you have to, well you know what usually happens to rich people that lose their money.

I can't see the future and I am of average intelligence as you may be able to tell. I saw this coming six years ago but we decided to continued on the same path.

Think about the things that are occurring and theses things already happen. Some of us will not live to see these things get to bad to were there is no fixes. Our kids and grands will.

I somewhat understand what it takes to be a politician. If you honestly believe that the most honest, the most religious or most moral people always win then you are a ------- lets just say you are wrong. If you believe everything that you read or see on T.V. then you are a even bigger -----. We are all born with gifts these gifts are what make us what or who we are. Know that most people are followers and not leaders. Most people feel one way or another because they learned to feel this way as a child or someone they strive to be like feels this way. These feelings are not yours. You are a follower.

We are all taught things growing up. Leaders live their lives and learn and form there own thoughts and options even if they go against what their peers feel. Leaders sometime use the fact they are to mislead or victimize to make money. Vote for who you want but please don't make false excuses why you don't want to vote for Obama. Be proud of who or what you are and be honest with yourself. If you don't like the direction this country is going and you really won't vote for Obama because he did not wear a pen, his wife said something that caused you pause, you think he is a Muslim, you don't like the comments of his Christian preacher then you have issues. If it's for the other reason then thats your reason but stop making yourself look like an ----.

Here is a project, get a recorder and record an hour conversation and let someone take a comment out that is not flattering if the statement does not come across the way you have meant for it to or they just get stuck on a certain statement (sound bite) just to get a little idea what these guys go through and let it be broadcast to your peers.

Another project, list all the people that you grew up with or around, list all the people that you have ever worked with, people you know now and family members. Now if you are a person that there is no record of you doing anything illegal or immoral and we ( people that don't know you) had to judge you by what the worst people on this list have done will you come out as clean as Obama. Enough of this bull---- I have bananas to feed, water and watch grow.
:2722:Whoa, mike where do I begin? You mention alot of pain and suffering. I admit the economy is not as strong as most people hope it could be. But if someone is doing okay I don't believe they are in the minority. Some people are doing okay because they benefitted themselves. Economies go up economies go down, that's just the way it goes. A lot of people love living the good life and get irresponsible with credit and debt and get into trouble when things get tight. And yes of course some hard working people get hit with hard times when things go sour too, there is no denying that. However, you make it seem as if the country is in it's worst shape ever. For the most part the economy has been on an upswing since the eighties. The Carter years were far worse than now. MOST of us don't even know what tough times are. A lot of people had to pull it together and survive through the depression. For the most part generations since then have prospered. Now were spoiled with multiple cars, several tv's, big houses! If someone isn't doing well it isn't neccesarily the current administration's fault. How about some personal responsability? Take the housing problem. Many saw it coming, they said the bubble would burst yet banks were irresponsible issuing subprime and other adjustable rate mortgages with high default rates made to higher-risk borrowers with lower income or lesser credit history than prime borrowers. This was a disaster in the making. And the borrowers are also to blame taking on loans knowing if things were to go bad (as predicted) rates would go up and they would be squeezed. All this is most unfortunate but is it really the fault of the Bush administration....REALLY?
You mentioned immigrants, I'm sure you were referring to the ILLEGAL immigrant problem we are facing today. And yes it is definately a problem. This is a problem that has been brewing for DECADES. And shame on the government for they have let us down. A lot of people have come to this country through all of the legal channels and it is a shame so many people have been able to come here not doing so. It isn't fair to the legal immigrants or to the rest of us for that matter. The government looked the other way and laws were not enforced for YEARS until now when basically it's too late to handle it sensibly. I hope however you don't believe your candidate is going to handle this immigration problem better than anyone else will.
You mentioned honest Americans turning to drugs and criminal activity, kids growing up without parents, no money, more stress divorce. You say you can't see the future but can you see the past? You said you saw this coming 6 years ago. Well where have you been? It sure as hell didn't START 6 years ago! This stuff has been going on for YEARS it's whats wrong with alot of society. Mike, you say you are of only average intelligence but SURELY you can't blame the Bush administation for this too! I CAN SAY THIS IS BULL ---- BECAUSE I AM HERE!
Obama refused to wear an American flag pin, was advised by a campaign advisor he should wear it AND THEN he wore the American flag pin. Yes I do have a problem with that and quite frankly cannot see why you would not. Especially since he put it on after being advised, so what is truly in his heart, is this not dishonest?
Back in February in Wisconsin Michelle Obama said: For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country. Seriously are you kidding me? This country has sacrificed and donated (we help out the rest of the world financially more than any other country) and fought for so much and now Michelle Obama is really proud? Why because her husband is doing well politically?? Oh geez. She also said that America is a mean country, oh yeah, compared to what other countries? Really, are you kidding me? This really makes me want to vote for her husband. Earlier this week Obama spoke in Berlin, It would have been under a Nazi flag if not for America. Mean country? Most proud? Give me a break!

I wouldn't care if Barack Obama was a Muslim.

Reverand White's comments are racist. Reverand White is very controversial. Reverend White married the Obamas. Reverand White baptised the Obama children. Barack Obama has sat in that church on many occasions. Barrack Obama has referred to White as a friend and a mentor. But when all this hit the fan Barack claimed to know nothing of it. How can this be an HONEST man? He has since denounced recent comments made by Mr. White.......for his political campaign I'm sure.
You forgot to mention William Ayers. A citizen terrorist known for bombing police stations, the pentagon, and regretting he and his group didn't do more. Barack Obama seems to think he is a fine man.
Why should I vote for this man? How about for change? You mean changing his MIND? I have heard the sound bites! Befores and afters... and then he says that's not what I said. He said the surge would not work and would likely make things in Iraq worse. Now that it has worked he says he knew all the additional troops would have an impact and does not admit a mistake! CHANGE? CHANGE? He's more of a politician than McCain.
Not to mention a serious lack of experience. He has actually spent more time running for President than serving in the US senate. I'm sorry but I judge him on his character and his apparent lack of honesty. You say Obama is clean. CLEAN? Are you kidding me? Are you sure you don't secretly work on the Obama for President staff? Oh, and if you think Obama will make things better I hope you like higher taxes (yes his plans are the most expensive in history) and that wonderful government run healthcare we may all be paying for. The government ruined social security and now were going to put our health in their hands, yeah that's comforting!

Ahava
07-27-2008, 03:51 AM
Personally I wish we could throw them all out and just start over. However I cannot vote for a man who would like to sit down and have a nice talk with the people who'd like to wipe my race off of the planet, myself included. For those of you, that might remember the history behind your screen name thread, I gave a short blurb on mine but I did not mention that Ahava is Hebrew for love which only Benny noticed around the time I joined and asked me about it. When I watched that man speak in such a horrible twisted manner the way he did in the pulpit with such conviction... "God bless America?" NO! "God damn America!", I got chills down my spine! And for the fact that Obama chose to sit his family down in front of someone like that for years... speaks volumes to me about the hidden dark and twisted nature of his heart. The day that the election comes I will be on my face praying that the Lord's will be done, because if that man gets into office, I am afraid of will come to follow. Plain and simple. Not to say that I disrepect other people's beliefs, I have many friends who are Muslim, Mormon and many other things and I get along fine with them and they don't hate me for what I am! I found it alarming to watch White's (I refuse to call someone like that a spiritual leader of any kind) face twisted with such vile hatred as he spoke... Who in their right mind would want to teach their children something like that and sit them under it for 20 years? Not someone in their right mind. That's for certain. Not that the other candidate is much better either but at least he does not wish to sit down and have tea with the people who believe that Israel is a stinking rotting corpse and it needs to be wiped off of the planet. -_-; and I failed to mention these were the people who were dancing in the streets when the towers went down with unadaltered JOY!!... why would any self respecting American want to sit down and have a... chat... with these people? I have family members who not only fought in the American revolution but in the Civil war... (on the north side) they'd be rolling in their graves if only they knew...

mskitty38583
07-27-2008, 10:46 AM
ahava i knew what your screen name means thats why i didnt ask. i will not vote for a man who thinks that about isreal! i have a pic of him refusing to salute my americian flag. nor will i sit by and let someone say that our military is unnecessary.i would rather have a vetran in office running my country then some snot nose winey hoo-ha who has never had to work for anything a day in his life. as far as him sitting down with the enemy....hell let him move his family over there and he can stay there and have all the tea he wants.....we dont want his scanky ass here! he is a traitor and a bigot. just my opinion and if you dont like it, dont read it!

saltydad
07-27-2008, 10:58 AM
Just to make a statement about this forum, not the election. It's obvious that we have a lot of members who disagree wildly with each others political leanings, yet we manage to stay and have a community here that treats each other with respect around our common interests, not differences. I treasure that, and see us banana lovers as a family that has it's ups and downs but stays together throughout. Thank you Jarred for that, and thanks to each of you out there in nana land.

CookieCows
07-27-2008, 11:36 AM
Just to make a statement about this forum, not the election. It's obvious that we have a lot of members who disagree wildly with each others political leanings, yet we manage to stay and have a community here that treats each other with respect around our common interests, not differences. I treasure that, and see us banana lovers as a family that has it's ups and downs but stays together throughout. Thank you Jarred for that, and thanks to each of you out there in nana land.

I agree 100%.


Deb

mike
07-27-2008, 04:41 PM
First of all let me apologize to anyone who I really offended by my comments or the way they were said that was not my intention remember only average. Not to those who chose to act offended for spin. If you read what I said my point was proven by comments being taking out of context and turned. Let me say this again VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT. I don't work for Obama I am an independent American citizen who cares about not only me and my family but the family of others.

Yes I place some fault to the present administration for the simple fact that if everything was good they would be credited for it. I hear and understand the comment about bad lending practices but come on, with the lost of jobs. Factory jobs that are slowly letting go American workers and hiring illegal alien's for obvious reasons. I can't blame the businesses because why should they be legal in there actions and go out of business. If actions are taken to prosecute businesses involved in the illegal hiring then everyone can play on a even playing fields. Americans would have descent paying jobs, taxes would be paid, Americans can spend their money in America resulting in a good economy, see how that works. I say this just to say not everyone who lost their homes were careless or received a loan that they should not have.

I support Obama but the only thing I got against McCain is that he's changing his positions. I think he is a good man based on some of his past positions not the best campaigner though. My hopes and prayers are that this is to get elected only. I can deal with that and feel that he will do what's best for the country not a party. I chose Obama because his campaigning is about doing things different. I don't think we should be doing things the same and hoping something different happens this doesn't make sense to me. I understand this administration benefited some. I also believe they are the minority.

The economy is in the worst shape that I have ever seen in my adult life and I don't believe just because it was bad before that it should be that way again. Learn from pass mistakes so they are not repeated. These are only my feelings so don't get upset or stop me from being apart of this forum that I love.

Chong that was good, telling others how to take my comments. Acting upset in turn getting others to want to be upset LOL but it works. You are definitely a leader. I apologize Chong that I don't post much but I am here a lot. I love to read the questions and comments of the member and the great pics. There are so many people here that give much better answers to questions than I can. If what I think is not better or different from what some other member have posted then I don't post. I learned most of what I know about growing naners from this site so I probably won't have better advice than my teachers. I try to welcome new members because I see the excitement and try to share the love for growing. I don't believe I ever said it but thanks to all the you for sharing the knowledge.


:nanadrink:

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 06:08 PM
First of all let me apologize to anyone who I really offended by my comments or the way they were said that was not my intention remember only average. Not to those who chose to act offended for spin. If you read what I said my point was proven by comments being taking out of context and turned. Let me say this again VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT. I don't work for Obama I am an independent American citizen who cares about not only me and my family but the family of others.

Yes I place some fault to the present administration for the simple fact that if everything was good they would be credited for it. I hear and understand the comment about bad lending practices but come on, with the lost of jobs. Factory jobs that are slowly letting go American workers and hiring illegal alien's for obvious reasons. I can't blame the businesses because why should they be legal in there actions and go out of business. If actions are taken to prosecute businesses involved in the illegal hiring then everyone can play on a even playing fields. Americans would have descent paying jobs, taxes would be paid, Americans can spend their money in America resulting in a good economy, see how that works. I say this just to say not everyone who lost their homes were careless or received a loan that they should not have.

I support Obama but the only thing I got against McCain is that he's changing his positions. I think he is a good man based on some of his past positions not the best campaigner though. My hopes and prayers are that this is to get elected only. I can deal with that and feel that he will do what's best for the country not a party. I chose Obama because his campaigning is about doing things different. I don't think we should be doing things the same and hoping something different happens this doesn't make sense to me. I understand this administration benefited some. I also believe they are the minority.

The economy is in the worst shape that I have ever seen in my adult life and I don't believe just because it was bad before that it should be that way again. Learn from pass mistakes so they are not repeated. These are only my feelings so don't get upset or stop me from being apart of this forum that I love.

Chong that was good, telling others how to take my comments. Acting upset in turn getting others to want to be upset LOL but it works. You are definitely a leader. I apologize Chong that I don't post much but I am here a lot. I love to read the questions and comments of the member and the great pics. There are so many people here that give much better answers to questions than I can. If what I think is not better or different from what some other member have posted then I don't post. I learned most of what I know about growing naners from this site so I probably won't have better advice than my teachers. I try to welcome new members because I see the excitement and try to share the love for growing. I don't believe I ever said it but thanks to all the you for sharing the knowledge.


:nanadrink:

MIKE, you certainly didn't offend me. You have the right to your own opinion. And I didn't read anything hateful. To think anyone would try to keep you from this forum, unless maybe if you were preaching hate, I think is ridiculous.
However I really didn't spin, turn or take anything out of context. I only went by what you literally wrote. While you didn't offend me you did upset me. I just feel if people paid attention, I MEAN REALLY PAID ATTENTION there is no way anyone in their right mind would vote for Obama. There are so many warning signs. He says he's for change but he hasn't said how he's going to change a darned thing. As a matter of FACT what he has said thus far has come right out of the liberal democratic playbook. But Obama is different not because he wants to make America better but because he doesn't seem to love America at all and his actions insinuate that.
I can't make you see things the way you should Mike about the economy. It does go up, it does go down. It's not like we can force people to buy things or not to buy things when the country needs them too. There are always going to be slow downs. I know it was piddly, but at least the Bush administation sent out the tax cut checks, and for quite some time the democrats have been trying to stop that. Obama recently mentioned tearing down the wall between the haves and the have-nots. Well other than taking from the haves and giving to the have-nots how do you do that? You don't.
Listen, this reply could go on forever so I should just make it short. I just think you're going to make a mistake, a lot of people are. I wouldn't want you to stop posting, hell post more! I love a debate.
-Bill

Ahava
07-27-2008, 06:19 PM
I'd like change too, but it would be nice for once to have a candidate that shows a true passion for this country. Wearing a flag on one's suit may not seem like a big deal to some, but can you imagine if Obama ran 30-40 years ago, or so, and he didn't wear a flag pin, or salute the flag and his wife said the things she did. People would have been horrified by it all. He would have been tarred and feathered and ran out of town. Where has the values gone? It'd be nice to find a someone running that looks closer to home, and who would talk about the kids, and family values. Talk about the farmers, and the agriculture industry what can be done for them, talk about real issues. Both of these candidates seemed to find a subject and beat the dead horse to death for weeks. I guess it's too much to ask for in this day and age. Maybe before we talk about the presidential candidate maybe we need to fire all of Congress and the senate, and all those as MsKitty puts it hoo-has and start over. I'm starting to think a regular Joe off the street could, ((or a monkey dressed in a business suit)) could to a better job than those morons too busy lobbying for money, not giving a rat's ... about the people one bit. Maybe we need a raffle. LOL.

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 06:24 PM
I'd like change too, but it would be nice for once to have a candidate that shows a true passion for this country. Wearing a flag on one's suit may not seem like a big deal to some, but can you imagine if Obama ran 30-40 years ago, or so, and he didn't wear a flag pin, or salute the flag and his wife said the things she did. People would have been horrified by it all.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, THANK YOU!

Ahava
07-27-2008, 06:33 PM
I know. There are probably alot of us that feels the same way. I mean I'm not a fan of of any of the Clinton's but at least she put her hand over her heart ((I sort of wished she would have sidled over and smacked Obama in the back of his head during that event...)) The symbolism behind his actions speaks volumes, the things he's said, and done. People can say it's not a big deal. In a day and age where kid's no longer say the flag salute in school just because there's the word God in it... what are the kids being taught? Where has the respect for the foundation of the forefather's gone? We're a relatively young country... I don't care if someone's black, white, pink, yellow, purple, or blue. But if they don't have a measure of respect for something so simple...? How could I trust them with the complex? And the things that really matter?

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 07:06 PM
I know. There are probably alot of us that feels the same way. I mean I'm not a fan of of any of the Clinton's but at least she put her hand over her heart ((I sort of wished she would have sidled over and smacked Obama in the back of his head during that event...)) The symbolism behind his actions speaks volumes, the things he's said, and done. People can say it's not a big deal. In a day and age where kid's no longer say the flag salute in school just because there's the word God in it... what are the kids being taught? Where has the respect for the foundation of the forefather's gone? We're a relatively young country... I don't care if someone's black, white, pink, yellow, purple, or blue. But if they don't have a measure of respect for something so simple...? How could I trust them with the complex? And the things that really matter?
Now that is a statement I can relate to! I knew there was a lot of debate about the whole Pledge of Allegience thing but I wasn't aware of any schools actually stopping it. Fortunately in our public school district they DO say the Pledge. I am by no means religous and I really don't even believe, AND I WOULD NOT WANT THEM TO CHANGE A THING!

Ahava
07-27-2008, 07:14 PM
Now that is a statement I can relate to! I knew there was a lot of debate about the whole Pledge of Allegience thing but I wasn't aware of any schools actually stopping it. Fortunately in our public school district they DO say the Pledge. I am by no means religous and I really don't even believe, AND I WOULD NOT WANT THEM TO CHANGE A THING!

To me, even though I am a believer it's not the religious context of it that holds meaning to me, but the principle behind it. It's tradition and some traditions should just be respected for what they are. And it should be respected for what it is. I saw a news recording some time back about some schools completely stopping it who knows if they resumed it. People fought and bled on the battlefield for what that flag symbolizes. I think that in itself deserves respect. It still appalls me to no end that a person running for President, the most respected position of office in the U.S. can't even respect our nation's symbol of Freedom, and understand why it's important that he does so... it's something so relatively simple... so very simple.

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 07:22 PM
Well said Ahava, very well said! We need a banana smiley holding an American flag.

mskitty38583
07-27-2008, 07:23 PM
To me, even though I am a believer it's not the religious context of it that holds meaning to me, but the principle behind it. It's tradition and some traditions should just be respected for what they are. And it should be respected for what it is. I saw a news recording some time back about some schools completely stopping it who knows if they resumed it. People fought and bled on the battlefield for what that flag symbolizes. I think that in itself deserves respect. It still appalls me to no end that a person running for President, the most respected position of office in the U.S. can't even respect our nation's symbol of Freedom, and understand why it's important that he does so... it's something so relatively simple... so very simple.

THATS RIGHT! we need to hold on to what the constitution was based upon...not throw it out because someone has a problem with one word in it. i dont give a rats tail if they come from outerspace..if you want to live in my country you do it our way. if mr. i cant salute the flag and wants to have tea with the enemy, let him. i dont like him, i dont trust him and his wife can just move with him and wear that stupid veil over her head and remember....over there she is just a piece of meat.

Ahava
07-27-2008, 07:27 PM
I'd vote for that banana! In all seriousness I feel that I've said more than enough on this subject. I agree with the both of you on many accounts. And I can understand some of how those on the otherside of the fence feel as well. I really do believe we're all looking for some sort of change and we're desperate to get it whereever we can. Sadly we're left with the two idiots running for office and to every person whose going to vote, I feel this election is basically vote for the lesser of two evils. How far we have fallen. >.>;

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 07:29 PM
People fought and bled on the battlefield for what that flag symbolizes. I think that in itself deserves respect. It still appalls me to no end that a person running for President, the most respected position of office in the U.S. can't even respect our nation's symbol of Freedom, and understand why it's important that he does so... it's something so relatively simple... so very simple.

How come it doesn't appall EVERYBODY? Why would citizens of this country vote for this guy? Did somebody put something in their cheese fries?

Ahava
07-27-2008, 07:34 PM
How come it doesn't appall EVERYBODY? Why would citizens of this country vote for this guy? Did somebody put something in their cheese fries?

It's all the steroids and expiremental chemicals in all our food they feed us in the states. They're making us not only fat... but a little off... as well. I haven't been able to fathom how people think it's all honky dory that Obama chose to sit his family in front of that psycho who loved to sermonize a crowd with all that filthy hate speech for a couple decades and they think that he's still sane after listening to that hoopla for so long. I can imagine Obama sitting in the pew and clapping and nodding, shouting amen along with the crowd when that man was talking about damning america and how god should die if he isn't only for african americans, screw the rest of the world. How is that okay? I haven't figured out that one yet.

mskitty38583
07-27-2008, 07:36 PM
because people want change. stupid idiot over here has great charisma and sure he drawls a crowd....well so do the clinics when they give out the flu shots or bags of condoms....duh!

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 07:36 PM
McCain wasn't my choice, but I don't think he's an idiot. I don't agree with some of his positions, and he hasn't stood up for enough. He needs to take the gloves off with his campaign and hopefully he will. He does however LOVE this country and I know he WANTS to do the right thing. He wants government to be more fiscally responsible, he wants to get rid of the ear marks and he realizes the need for government to be smaller and less intrusive.

mskitty38583
07-27-2008, 07:37 PM
the idiot i was talking about was obama.

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 07:40 PM
LOL i know I was writing before i read that...ahava said 2 idiots previously

Ahava
07-27-2008, 07:41 PM
McCain wasn't my choice, but I don't think he's an idiot. I don't agree with some of his positions, and he hasn't stood up for enough. He needs to take the gloves off with his campaign and hopefully he will. He does however LOVE this country and I know he WANTS to do the right thing. He wants government to be more fiscally responsible, he wants to get rid of the ear marks and he realizes the need for government to be smaller and less intrusive.

This is true, he does at least seem to love this country and as a vetern he did alot for this country. I'll kindly retract my statement, he is not an idiot, and neither is Obama really, the latter is just as slimy as they come, however I still wish we could start all over and get a whole new cast of characters for this cartoon, although I don't know if I could stomach another set of news coverage. The press really irritates the snot out of me sometimes.

saltydad
07-27-2008, 08:43 PM
A debate in person over coffee and cake (and bananas!) would be fine, but I've found from participation in other forums that political and religious debate just tends to cause tempers to rise and solidifies rather than changes positions. Let's let it suffice to say that I strongly disagree with most of the above attacks on Obama. I am no fan on the conservative right /GOP. I won't change your minds, and you won't change mine. Finally, I've come to respect and like many of the folks here, and do not want politics to come between us. So we'll just have to agree to disagree, and let the voting booth be the final decider.

fishman0422
07-27-2008, 08:47 PM
A debate in person over coffee and cake (and bananas!) would be fine, but I've found from participation in other forums that political and religious debate just tends to cause tempers to rise and solidifies rather than changes positions. Let's let it suffice to say that I strongly disagree with most of the above attacks on Obama. I am no fan on the conservative right /GOP. I won't change your minds, and you won't change mine. Finally, I've come to respect and like many of the folks here, and do not want politics to come between us. So we'll just have to agree to disagree, and let the voting booth be the final decider.

It's OK we still love ya!

damaclese
07-28-2008, 10:15 AM
i think its important when discussing social as well as political topics to seek a higher road obviously we are living in turbulent times Chang is hard but its also an opportunity! this is are country and we can make it what we want to i really don't believe that the current system has been infective i place the blame for this on greed and sloth plane and simple i have to take some responsibility for that even thou i have voted in ever election since i was 18 except for one for a school board which i missed iv felt bad about that ever since it happened
i think if people would read more study some of the vary fine books out there on topics of social change and think less emotionally we could find a way to salve are problems but and I'm speaking to both the dems and the repubs sorry guys but so far neither one of you has really been affective you fite and back bite each other this just draws your off the path why cant you all admit that you see things differently but its in those differences that your could find comprehensive plans when i cook i put some salt and pepper in my food one with out the other spoils the soup! it would be good if we all could seek a higher spiritual plane after all wouldn't it be nice to live in a place were ever ones valued and every one has enough to eat good housing so to coin a Fraze living in the land of milk and Honey i think the only way to get there is to start to turn away from the greed and constantly seeking for material things you don't need 2 cars 5000sqft House pool diamonds and so on and so forth what we do need is love and exceptence food shelter clean water gardens books Faith and eases of the mind and spirit i love all of you and have had so much fun learning and sharing in this community and for me that is what life is about!

CookieCows
07-28-2008, 11:11 AM
i think its important when discussing social as well as political topics to seek a higher road obviously we are living in turbulent times Chang is had but its also an opportunity! this is are country and we can make it what we want to i really don't believe that the current system has been infective i place the blame for this on greed and sloth plane and simple i have to take some responsibility for that even thou i have voted in ever election since i was 18 except for one for a school bored which i missed iv felt bad about that ever since it happened
i think if people would read more study some of the vary fine books out there on topics of social change and think less emotionally we could find a way to salve are problems but and I'm speaking to both the dems and the repubs sorry guys but so far neither one of you has really been affective you fit and back bit each other this just draws your off the path why cant you all admit that you see things differently but its in those differences that your could find comprehensive plans when i cook i put some salt and pepper in my food one with out the other spoils the soup! it would be good if we all could seek a higher spiritual plane after all wouldn't it be nice to live in a place were ever ones valued and every one has enough to eat good housing so to coin a Fraze living in the land of milk and Honey i think the only way to get there is to start to turn away from the greed and constantly seeking for material things you don't need 2 cars 5000sqft House pool diamonds and so on and so forth what we do need is love and exceptence food shelter clean water gardens books Faith and eases of the mind and spirit i love all of you and have had so much fun learning and sharing in this community and for me that is what life is about!

This is the most logical post I've read on this entire thread except what Chong said about respecting the other person's beliefs and point of view. Getting upset because someone doesn't see a candidate the way you do doesn't do any good at all and as someone else said, will only push the other person more solidly into where they stand, especially when the candidate is also referred to in a derrogatory manner. We can gain so much insight into our friends when we listen to them and validate their feelings instead of trying to persuade them over to our point of view. They're allowed to feel and believe the way they do and they will feel so much closer to us when they feel they've really been listened to. You don't have to agree with them to let them know you understand what they feel.

Even if you feel they are going down the wrong path they still have their right to freedom of choice. Would you really want everyone to feel, think and act just like you?

All we can do is listen to the facts, investigate to find out what is true and what is rumor and hold fast to our standards when we're in the voting booth.

Deb

damaclese
07-28-2008, 11:51 AM
thank you Deb when i wrote that i really didn't think any one would like it much iv been at times accused of being a Utopian and maybe i am but i dream and whats wrong with that Buta said and this is not a direct quote (I dream the dream to be the dream) First comes the thought then comes the reality throw Action its a basic principal of physics

CookieCows
07-28-2008, 12:02 PM
thank you Deb when i wrote that i really didn't think any one would like it much iv been at times accused of being a Utopian and maybe i am but i dream and whats wrong with that Buta said and this is not a direct quote (I dream the dream to be the dream) First comes the thought then comes the reality throw Action its a basic principal of physics

I dream the dream to be the dream.... I love that quote! I put quotes up on the fridge and this is a keeper.

Putting the dream into action... that's why I have bananas. :waving:

Deb

fishman0422
07-28-2008, 12:47 PM
Unfortunately, according to Snopes.com, this is a hoax. Check it out:
snopes.com: Barack Obama in Afghanistan (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afghanistan.asp)

By-passing the wounded troops in Germany is true, though.

The right thing to do then was delete that post!

saltydad
07-28-2008, 02:23 PM
The right thing to do then was delete that post!

Remember that can only be done by the originator or a mod.

chong
07-28-2008, 04:31 PM
Remember that can only be done by the originator or a mod.

Yes, indeed, and Mr. Fishman already deleted the post. Thank you.

saltydad
07-28-2008, 05:02 PM
Sorry Fishman. missed that. Thanks Chong.

proletariatcsp
08-01-2008, 12:28 AM
Like I said, everyone is at odds with each other. Just as George Washington said, the political parties are killing us.

The day congress makes it illegal to recieve campaign contributions, is the day I will vote.

With the advent of the internet, there is no reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for election.

With the hundreds of people in this country with IQ's well over 120, why is it that none of them run for president? Probably because they know that working under our current structure of government would be a great waste of problem solving talents.

Obama Boo,
a sheep posing as a wolf, in sheep's attire. He may graze with the rest of the flock but his fleece is tainted with the reminder of when he pretends to like red meat while dining with the wolves.

McNovacaine,
is not Bush--he is McCain choosing to live in the Whitehouse the way Bush left it. And he's also for dressing Cheney as the maid.

I don't know much about Obama mostly because I dont care to. Wether he is a showboat by the name a 'up chocolate river without a popsickle stick' has yet to be determined. I like him for his person to person community partisipation. Compared to Bush who likes molesting armadillos at his ranch, and McSame who likes to talk...and talk...

I do like him too though, however, military leaders are historically +/-. And Americans are big risk supporters when it comes down to a good 50/50. As far as how the experiences of war change a person, I believe greatly depend on that person. And the only one who really knows them, is the one sleeping beside them at night.


Ok, I admit it. I am bitter, and I have no life!:waving:

51st state
08-01-2008, 04:17 AM
Well we've got a Scot running the UK and what a balls up he's made of that!

politicians rank alongide lawyers and estate agents(realtors) in my book, if 'none of the above' was an option they'd win everytime (and probably do a better job)

we need Arnie for president :ha:...he's even doing the 'vacation in California' ads on UK tv. :goteam:

damaclese
08-01-2008, 09:07 AM
ones again i cant state emphatically enough that if you want change then you have to do things differently you cant just keep electing people that I'm fairly sure start off with Noble ideas but them become corrupted with a system thats designed to let the moneyed and power seekers have there say in what ever endeavor they see will profit them this is what i think we have to do to fix it and know ones going to like what i have to say

1. there current economic system has to be replaced is money must go to be replaced with a system thats based on charing wealth

2 the current Education system must be amended to reflect a higher social responsibility promoting
a highly developed sense of personal responsibility coupled with a strong desire for life long learning

3 peoples need to be encouraged to seek higher truths and turned away from inward thinking about self and gain

3 it would be in the worlds best interest to look for spiritual enlightenment rather then placing there worship on finical wealth

4 we should place are inter focus for the interim on finding ways to live in balance with the earth and its delicate systems rather than destroying this Gordan Paradise (theres only one earth)

5 and lastly there should be a minimum IQ requirement for all public serves people this not only would include elected people but all sieval service employs this test would not only seek to quantify over all intelligence but would also asses a persons general mental stability and his or hers Spiritual development

conclusion there are Additional things i would recommend but i think that covers the basics we need to turn are world upside down so so speak and do things that probably would seem radical but my goal are to do away with poverty ignorance war greed powers seeking for its own sake and to permute a personal sense of responsibility spiritual enlightenment a love of learning and to encourage in all aspects of ones life the seeking of fulfillment if every one is firmly placed on a level footing that permits there personal happiness and poetical then i would think that this world would be just about the best place on the universe to live
we as Americans can not continue to modal are country on a 19 century view of industrialization hell bent on gaining maximum wealth for its own sake
theres more to life kids its time to be happy!!!!!!
if we did thees things then all the mess would clear up they are just symptoms of the grater problems of are souls ill health

mskitty38583
08-01-2008, 09:23 AM
i agree with you...however there are those that would scream..."discrimination" on these ideas.

CookieCows
08-01-2008, 09:59 AM
I don't think Man is capable of that kind of existence unfortunatly. I think that small groups of people can achieve it for awhile but eventually greed and pride will creep into someone's heart and one bad apple can ruin the whole apple cart. But I agree with most of what you say and the more people that work at love, charity and respect for others the better it will get. If nothing else, the person that can achieve this will have more inner peace and live a happier, healthier life.

As for electing people that not only have noble ideas but actually carry them out ... I think that's a tough one. We have to vote with an element of faith that they will and that just boils down to where we are now and always have been I guess. Those who are voting for Obama believe strongly that he can and will make a change for the better and the same for those voting for McCain. I'm voting for McCain because I don't agree with Obama at all but I do worry that McCain could get us into trouble being so military minded. I feel he's the better of the two and I still believe that voting is better than not voting. The candidate that I would have stood behind without as many reservations would have been Romney.

Ahava
08-01-2008, 03:00 PM
I don't think Man is capable of that kind of existence unfortunatly. I think that small groups of people can achieve it for awhile but eventually greed and pride will creep into someone's heart and one bad apple can ruin the whole apple cart. But I agree with most of what you say and the more people that work at love, charity and respect for others the better it will get. If nothing else, the person that can achieve this will have more inner peace and live a happier, healthier life.

As for electing people that not only have noble ideas but actually carry them out ... I think that's a tough one. We have to vote with an element of faith that they will and that just boils down to where we are now and always have been I guess. Those who are voting for Obama believe strongly that he can and will make a change for the better and the same for those voting for McCain. I'm voting for McCain because I don't agree with Obama at all but I do worry that McCain could get us into trouble being so military minded. I feel he's the better of the two and I still believe that voting is better than not voting. The candidate that I would have stood behind without as many reservations would have been Romney.

I agree MsCookieCows, I really liked Romney. I was so aggrieved when he didn't make it into the finals.

CookieCows
08-01-2008, 06:18 PM
I agree MsCookieCows, I really liked Romney. I was so aggrieved when he didn't make it into the finals.

I was disapointed he didn't make it also

Deb

modenacart
08-02-2008, 08:21 AM
5 and lastly there should be a minimum IQ requirement for all public serves people this not only would include elected people but all sieval service employs this test would not only seek to quantify over all intelligence but would also asses a persons general mental stability and his or hers Spiritual development


That’s communism. You should be careful about what kind of power you want to give government. That would give the government the right to IQ test people and would be an invasion of privacy.

In short, people should be able to do whatever you what, whenever you want as long as you don’t step on anyone elses rights. I wish the government would see it this way, but all they want is control. Also taxes are a form of control. Remember that money is power and the more we are taxed, the more power we loose as people. I can say that I am not happy with either candidate, however, a vote for Obama is going to be a vote for a huge tax increase and a huge tax increase on gas. If you want to see our economy go down the tubes, the best way to do that is increase taxes and increase the tax on gas. He will raise the price of gas through the roof. There should be no taxes on gas at all, because the more gas is taxed, the more it cost, the more it cost to produce good and ship them, the more goods cost. A any raise in the tax on gas is an increase on all goods we buy.

CookieCows
08-02-2008, 08:58 AM
It IS leaning towards communism however the IQ testing I don't think is. I'd worry about dictatorship with that. Isn't everyone considered equal in communism with no one having more than your neighbor? I believe communism is what the objective was with the communes back in the 60's and man being the flawed beings that we are can't seem to make it work.

Our founding fathers examined what governments worked and what didn't throughout history and came up with something that has worked more than not, so far. It's starting to crumble I think and the noose is tightening around our necks as the Gov. takes more and more freedom away from us but as history shows.. nothing good seems capable of lasting forever.

It sounds like alot of people wish they had someone else to vote for other than the two that we have. Hopefully it won't need fixing but if it does... maybe next election we the people can see more clearly.

damaclese
08-02-2008, 09:22 AM
That’s communism. You should be careful about what kind of power you want to give government. That would give the government the right to IQ test people and would be an invasion of privacy.

In short, people should be able to do whatever you what, whenever you want as long as you don’t step on anyone elses rights. I wish the government would see it this way, but all they want is control. Also taxes are a form of control. Remember that money is power and the more we are taxed, the more power we loose as people. I can say that I am not happy with either candidate, however, a vote for Obama is going to be a vote for a huge tax increase and a huge tax increase on gas. If you want to see our economy go down the tubes, the best way to do that is increase taxes and increase the tax on gas. He will raise the price of gas through the roof. There should be no taxes on gas at all, because the more gas is taxed, the more it cost, the more it cost to produce good and ship them, the more goods cost. A any raise in the tax on gas is an increase on all goods we buy.i never said they sould have that kind of power just that we sould make sure that the pepol that we pic to govern are smart and motavated on a more altueistic wave langth and as far as it being comunistic im not realy sure thats true ithere i never out lind agsactly what kind of goverment we sould have i dont mind working within the systome that we have i aplod are systome for its freedoms to alow pepol to speak there minds and to have rights which i never said sould be changed im talking about motavating pepol to beleav that doing the right thing for the grater good is what we sould be up to but i cant see how it can work when the mager motivations in are sociaty are mony and power i was siply looking for beter salotions to theas primary motavations
whats rong with wanting to instill in pepol pride for falowing there beleafs and pasions and genuwin love of are felow pepols as for the thing deb said about it not working if pepol want for nothing and have there primary motavation pointed toreds the beterment of all man kind i dont think any one could be pridfull or power hungry i would think that a decentralised goverment would have to be the way to go on this

momoese
08-02-2008, 09:24 AM
It sounds like alot of people wish they had someone else to vote for other than the two that we have. Hopefully it won't need fixing but if it does... maybe next election we the people can see more clearly.

This is the problem that for years I have telling people about. I believe the two parties actually work together to keep out any 3rd party. They accomplish this with fear tactics on both sides leaving voters feeling like they have to vote for one or the other. For years I've told family and friends that the only way a third party will happen is if people in large numbers start voting that way. It will take many elections and possibly campaign finance reform before we see any real progress, but I do feel it's possible!

damaclese
08-02-2008, 09:28 AM
It IS leaning towards communism however the IQ testing I don't think is. I'd worry about dictatorship with that. Isn't everyone considered equal in communism with no one having more than your neighbor? I believe communism is what the objective was with the communes back in the 60's and man being the flawed beings that we are can't seem to make it work.

Our founding fathers examined what governments worked and what didn't throughout history and came up with something that has worked more than not, so far. It's starting to crumble I think and the noose is tightening around our necks as the Gov. takes more and more freedom away from us but as history shows.. nothing good seems capable of lasting forever.

It sounds like alot of people wish they had someone else to vote for other than the two that we have. Hopefully it won't need fixing but if it does... maybe next election we the people can see more clearly. all mostly good points but as i said befor change is hard and takes a grate comitment i think fundametaly iv been misunderstod on this im taking about changeing are minds set the govermental thing will take care of its self as i stated preveasly i bealev that the problim is internal with us its are souls that are sick thers a fundamental lake of spirit that has invaded are sociaty as a hole

damaclese
08-02-2008, 09:30 AM
This is the problem that for years I have telling people about. I believe the two parties actually work together to keep out any 3rd party. They accomplish this with fear tactics on both sides leaving voters feeling like they have to vote for one or the other. For years I've told family and friends that the only way a third party will happen is if people in large numbers start voting that way. It will take many elections and possibly campaign finance reform before we see any real progress, but I do feel it's possible!here here taking the mony motavation out of the equation would go along way to making thangs alot better

CookieCows
08-02-2008, 10:35 AM
I know .. it's so easy to get misunderstood in posts. Sometimes I'll even go back and read what I've said and realize that I didn't even say it the way I was thinking it too well. But I hope that I see what you mean Pauly about when the people change as a whole, then the government will just fall into place. I agree with that and it makes total sense. I'm sorry, I took something simple and put too much thinking into it! DUH

As for a third party, fourth party .... YES... I wish a candidate in one of the parties that lost could just say.. OK.. I'm going under an independent party now and still running. That would only be fair in my opinion. I'd be more comfortable with a popular vote anyway.

Deb

damaclese
08-02-2008, 08:51 PM
no problim Deb i would never take ofence to any thing said to me now i must just protest but thats my right heheheeh i know iv been quite abstract about all this the threed was about the canidates but thats me i like to get to the hart of things rather then dance around the thing andif we had a good life we would have good canidats thats how i see it so just for the record all finly make a statment about the two guys that are runing Nither! ones a facal of a bygon age that represents that 19 centurey modal of industrealisation i was talking about and the other on i just have a vibe about him im not so sure hes such a truth teller me thinks he doth ware sheaps clothing Lol and not to blame pepol for there spouses short comings i think his wife need charm lesence i know sounds all so triveal but i think its inportint to present a united front on theas things

proletariatcsp
08-11-2008, 11:20 AM
I agree with the majority,

We need to restructure our electoral process. Simply voting a third party or not voting, are not the correct avenues to which traverse. And requiring a higher I.Q. standard in office, would inevitably lead to 'smarter criminals.'

No, the way it should be done is this.


1. The people of these great United States must propose a list that represents our current tribulations.

2. The house of Representatives would in turn vote the most important issues from that List, e.g. taxes, education, healthcare, etc.

3. Once the formalities are sorted out (i.e. a scoring system). These issues would become programs, which are then adopted by every States' future presidential parties.

4. During the 4 year term of the current President, the States prospective candidates will work to resolve or amend the issues of that List. At the end of the 4th year, the States candidates who have brought about the greatest reform, and who have no less, than aspired to the demands of their people would then be permitted to delegate their nominee.


I realize that some candidates, have done great things and brought about changes in their home States. The only difference from that, in what I am suggesting is these actions become requirements. Its time that this Country puts an end to the preservation of Presidential office for those with the most money.

This could work, this should work. But, it will never work so long as politicians continue 'auctioning themselves off to the highest bidders.'

paradisi
08-11-2008, 09:57 PM
a point of view from an outsider

compulsory voting will get you a true representation of what the people want.

we have compulsory voting in australia - a lot of people whinge about having to spend half an hour in a line once every three years or so, but its worth it. We get what we elect. And usually whoever is elected is a representation of the peoples view.

Some of our states go a step further by having proportional representation - so that the minority parties are more truely represented.

just a thought about what you could do to improve a damaged system and make it a real democracy.

damaclese
08-12-2008, 07:30 AM
a point of view from an outsider

compulsory voting will get you a true representation of what the people want.

we have compulsory voting in australia - a lot of people whinge about having to spend half an hour in a line once every three years or so, but its worth it. We get what we elect. And usually whoever is elected is a representation of the peoples view.

Some of our states go a step further by having proportional representation - so that the minority parties are more truely represented.

just a thought about what you could do to improve a damaged system and make it a real democracy.we cant have compulsory voting its agenst the constatostion as one of your rights is not to vote. fredom of exspretion is a covited right here in the US! and boy do we exspres lol

CookieCows
08-12-2008, 09:13 AM
we cant have compulsory voting its agenst the constatostion as one of your rights is not to vote. fredom of exspretion is a covited right here in the US! and boy do we exspres lol

:ha::ha: We sure do!!