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Wolfgoberk
12-12-2019, 04:55 AM
Hello everyone, I joined bananas,org a few months ago but never posted.
I’ve seen a lot of interesting stuff of growing bananas.
Now I have a question and maybe someone can help me regarding some seeds of Musa thomsonii (they were indicated as thomsonii at least). I had them in the coco / perlite medium for 8 month and then I put them out to check them. I couldn’t see any sign of germination and put them in water for two days. After this, I found three different conditions:
1 No visible change
2 The Micropylar plug was removed and a white surface was visible
3 A yellow / brown fluid is coming out of the micropyle.
I hope I will be able to upload a picture:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=65623&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=65623&ppuser=29639)

For the seeds described under point 2 and 3: Are these signs of germination or are they lost and just start to rot?
I now have the seeds back in the coco / perlite medium.
Regards, Wolf

Tytaylor77
12-12-2019, 11:07 PM
A lot of times you can squeeze them lightly and see if they are still hard at all. They will either smash (bad) or still be hard. The hard ones I would surface sterilized with hydrogen peroxide then try again in much “less wet” conditions. Try pure coarse sand or pure perlite. That’s what I have the best luck with.

Sometimes you did nothing wrong. When I started doing embryo rescue I found out fast that most Musa seed have an immature embryo. If you have lots of seeds you can crack a couple and take a look. Compare to pics online. It’s easy to see with most types.

Good luck. Feel free to email me anytime if you need more help.

Wolfgoberk
12-13-2019, 08:37 AM
Ok, thanks. I will check the condition of the seeds and make sure the medium is not too wet.

If you say immature embryo, does it mean that the embryo still can mature in the seed or is it unviable?

For the seeds which chipped off the plug: The light white surface you can see, is it the embryo or a kind of membrane which protects the embryo?

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=65633 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=65623&ppuser=29639)

Tytaylor77
12-13-2019, 11:44 AM
By immature embryo that usually means not viable. And usually it’s the whole bunch. The embryo stops developing as soon as the bunch is harvested.

Scientific studies show that some Musa embryo develop in the very late stages of bunch filling. Just in the last 2 weeks (say when fingers turn yellow) some Musa embryo develop upto 80% of their growth in that short time!

So say you are a seed collector fighting birds, rats, and everything else trying to eat them. You see a “filled but not yellow” bunch. Do you harvest it or risk waiting 2 weeks and loosing it? My theory this is a major issue with Musa seed!

A lot of hybrid seed never even develop fully! On a normal Musa laterita bronze i get fingers just packed with seed! At least 30 per finger! 80%+ sprout! When I crossed laterita bronze and Thai gold I had 2-3 good hard seeds per finger!! 99% are white, soft and not developed.

That is why most all Musa breeders have to use a method called “embryo rescue” it gives that underdeveloped seed a chance to grow in-vitro in sterile/perfect conditions.

Just keep trying! Musa seeds can be very difficult! Especially if underdeveloped or not very fresh!

Wolfgoberk
12-13-2019, 02:40 PM
That's really interesting, I didn't know that the harvesting time is so important. I had some success before with Musa velutina seeds, this was also quite interesting, maybe I will send this experience in a new thread.
However I received nearly 100 seeds of M Balbisiana some weeks ago. If you often have the whole bunch not viable, I should check some seeds on viability. I have read somewhere a method to check it with a chemical what changes the color of the embryo if it is ok. I can't find it anymore, do you know anything about this method?