View Full Version : Next time you fill up your tank....
momoese
06-27-2008, 11:12 AM
Keep this in mind.
AdRbuUQNcxw
Chironex
06-27-2008, 06:21 PM
Where, when, or how will it all end - if ever? We have created a medusa of a monster that threatens our way of life. We have become victims of our own greed and extravagance. It makes me want to find my own island and grow bananas, live a simple life and contemplate nature. Wish I could find Gilligan's Island - it didn't seem so bad.
chong
06-27-2008, 06:34 PM
. . . . . . . . It makes me want to find my own island and grow bananas, live a simple life and contemplate nature. Wish I could find Gilligan's Island - it didn't seem so bad.
Yup! Especially with Ginger and Mary Ann! (LOL- I couldn't help that one.)
Chironex
06-27-2008, 06:36 PM
Heck yeah, that's what I'm talking about!!!
damaclese
06-27-2008, 08:16 PM
well I' am not a Republican and I am not a Democrat but I defantly am not a jackass either i think we all know were every one stands at this point i know who I'm voting for! well just have to Waite and see if its gonna be more same old same old are are we finally going to take charge of are destines instead of letting others do it for us sounds exciting doesn't it! and lets hope the comodityes trading act dies a horbal deth along with the fortuens of the scandrals that got it in place to begain with lets see whos standing in line at the gass pump when all the monny in the world won't get you a singal drop on that dark day
the only pepol that will servive are the ones that know how to chop wood get my meaning?
damaclese
06-27-2008, 08:19 PM
Yup! Especially with Ginger and Mary Ann! (LOL- I couldn't help that one.)
im with you chong well hafe way any way
LOL
harveyc
06-30-2008, 03:17 AM
There are some very good points in that report, but it seems to be very blatant in its bias. Typical with government politics, amendments get tagged onto unrelated bills. I'm a farmer and a beneficiary of government farm programs, but it's ridiculous the level of increased funding that got stuck into the Farm Bill on this election year, obviously to buy votes. I believe McCain was prudent in opposing it as was Bush in vetoing it. It did become law, however, as Congress overrode the veto. I had not heard that the bill included anything to close the "Enron loophole" until now. However, since the bill has become law, when are we going to see the relief?
Speculation certainly can drive up prices. Speculation can also drive prices down. Speculation basically makes markets more volatile. How about speculation in the housing market and how that has cost many people their savings as the bubble burst? Why isn't there some complaining about that? Because we can only blame greedy consumers and not some big corporations? Should we regulate housing prices to avoid runaway housing prices?
There is a very legitimate need for what is often called "speculation". Hedging is sometimes referred to as speculation but it protects a producer and buyer and consumer at the same time, allowing someone to fix their product price at some future date. This reduces risk and usually reduces prices, but what is happening now is speculators not even involved in the industry (I forget the brokerage house mentioned in the video) taking huge positions in oil contracts. For them, it's the same as trading stocks and betting on a further rise. The more they buy the more they help drive up the price of their contracts they already own.
Anyway, the Farm Bill was a poor bill and should not have been passed. Reversing the Enron loophole is another matter. Trailer are part of the evil of politics.
mskitty38583
06-30-2008, 10:11 AM
amen harvey, i was watching cnn the other night and couldnt believe what i heard on there. its almost like," slap the people ....they will take it....punch the people and they will roll over"...i dont know about yall but im tired of getting kicked around! i figured it out the other day and for me to go to school this next semester(3 1/2 months) driving 40 miles round trip, at the present price of gas...it gonna cost me $180.00 a month.thats gonna be about $600.00 for the semester. i gonna have to take out a subsidized student loan just to pay for gas. that dosent include my books, my digital camera, and my gun and holster. we have pretty much downsized what we could here at the house but omg, this mess is getting stupid. it almost seems that the more you downsize the more it cost you to do it. jmo!
momoese
06-30-2008, 10:29 AM
Harvey, I think it's apples and oranges. No one held a gun to peoples heads and forced them into ARM loans they couldn't afford down the road. They could have stayed in an apartment or the smaller house they already owned. Now the government is going to set a really bad example and bail those people out, and then screw us again by helping their banker buddies who lied on the mortgage applications. Of course both dems and pubs will try to take credit for "helping" in the 08 elections.
When we bought our house 4 years ago some real estate agents tried telling us we could afford a house waaaay over our budget with an interest only arm loan. We said F you, we know what we can afford and took a 30 year fixed. Everybody else had the same option we had, they just decided to gamble on the bubble not bursting and refiying later, but they lost. So speculation, yeah to some extent.
Oil prices are another issue and it looks like McCain has his hand in the cookie jar.
MsKitty, do you use oil to heat your house? I was talking to a friend in NY and he said if the oil price stays at what it is right now he will be spending $600 a month to heat the house and make hot water this winter. He's looking to move back to Cali to get away from that and the ever increasing property taxes he pays there. If it goes even higher I don't know how people are going to heat their homes!
harveyc
06-30-2008, 10:37 AM
NBA OR NFL?
36
have been accused of spousal abuse
7
have been arrested for fraud
19
have been accused of writing bad checks
117
have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3
have done time for assault
71,
repeat
71
cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14
have been arrested on drug-related charges
8
have been arrested for shoplifting
21
currently
are defendants in lawsuits, and
84
have been arrested for drunk driving
in the last year
Can you guess which organization this is?
NBA or NFL?
Give up yet? ... Scroll down,
Neither, it's the 535 members of the United States Congress.
The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.
******
I'm sure we can count on Congress to solve our energy problems though, right????
I was in Washington, D.C. recently on vacation and got a tour of the Capitol by a HR staffer. Nice young guy. I was alone with him for a while while we went to see if the line on the Senate side was shorter to get it (there were zero in line there compared to several hundred on the HR side because senators apparently have longer terms and don't give a hoot and won't bother to have their staffers give us a tour). He had only been there since last summer after getting out of college. I asked him what kind of career he saw in this and if all of the political games didn't bother him. He said he probably would not stick around for more than another year. The whole system is about playing games, it seems. Term limits should be something like two years for everybody, I think. After that, most are corrupt if they were not already.
momoese
06-30-2008, 10:42 AM
As bad as that sounds I believe they have a better record than our current president, mr cokehead drunk driver himself who has destroyed damn near every business he's touched, including our business as a nation, and our personal business!
harveyc
06-30-2008, 10:48 AM
Mitchel, I agree that people are responsible for getting into bad loans, but many people are not educated enough to make good financial decisions. If prices had not run up to ridiculous levels, there would have been less risk for everyone. We like to accuse oil companies of being greedy but when we see the prices of our homes appreciate to ridiculous levels, most of us think it is okay. I think it is bad for the entire country. Do I think house prices should be regulated? Probably not, with these clowns we have writing our laws!!!
You like to say that McCain has his hand in the cookie jar and I believe that's an unfair and inaccurate statement. He previously supported eliminating the Enron loophole and now he is accused of something because of things his campaign managers have done. In this video, it is quietly (without emphasis) mentioned that Obama also has a campaign advisor that has lobbied for the petroleum industry but that Obama voted for the Farm Bill. Is that supposed to be good??? It is implied that McCain is bad because he voted against a Farm Bill that included a provision to eliminate the Enron loophole. The Farm Bill contained $10-$20 billion in wasteful spending and not a dime was being used to undo the unrelated Enron loophole. If congress really wanted to undue the Enron loophole, why didn't they do it as a stand-alone bill? Or why not part of the Energy Bill passed last year that has banned the use of incandescent light bulbs (forcing us to use hazardous CFL bulbs)?
The report stinks of media bias and does not give a true picture of all of the facts.
mskitty38583
06-30-2008, 10:58 AM
no mitchel i have all electric. when i bought my house it had the gas wall heaters. i had those taken out and the natural gas cut off. my dad has electric and natural gas and both his bill togerher come up to 600.00 a month. i cant afford that. i installed all electric. if i would of had the money it would have all been changed to solar. my taxes on my house arent too bad... they are 267.00 a year. i live in town and have about 1/3 to 1/2 acre about 1/2 mile from the square. so the taxes arent to bad. i havent resided my house yet either, that why my taxes havent gone up....yet. lol. im also in the market for a woodburning stove.....i have a friend who plants trees, harvest them and replants.....
harveyc
06-30-2008, 11:16 AM
Don't shoot me! I heat my house with free natural gas. There are gas wells on my farm. The original owners kept the gas rights and probably get royalty checks of $10,000-$20,000 per month. Boo hoo, but at least I get free gas for my house (not to be used for outdoor uses, etc.). I feel bad for people that live in cold climates and pay through the nose for heating.
momoese
06-30-2008, 11:17 AM
The report stinks of media bias and does not give a true picture of all of the facts.
Of course it stinks, but it also states some scary facts. Some say "you are what you eat" others say "you are who you're surrounded by" Well look who he has around him. Bunch of scumbags!
harveyc
06-30-2008, 11:57 AM
Obama has scum bags around him but doesn't need to because he's one himself. He regrets voting to spare Terri Shaivo's life (reminder: she was not on life support, she had a feeding tube). He supports federal funding of abortions and has stated that if his daugthers made a mistake he would not want them to be "punished" with a child and have the right to an abortion. Whole lotta love. NOT!
A lot of people see Obama as a way to stop the killing in Iraq. What about the killing of our unborn here - 4,000 unborn babies each day getting their limbs yanked off or burnt to death with a saline solution. Those are just some cold hard facts, with no bias thrown in at all. And it's not just a party issue, check out Democrats For Life of America (http://www.democratsforlife.org/) if you're a Democrat.
momoese
06-30-2008, 02:08 PM
Shaivo should have never been a political issue to begin with.
A woman's right to choose is something you and I will never agree on so that's a mute point.
BTW, I'm an indy. I have never voted for a pub and for sure won't vote for McSame but I would have voted for Ron Paul even though he doesn't agree with me on the right to choose. You have to pick your poison and this time the poison I pick will be whoever is going to take us 180 degrees from where Bush has us. McCain is not that person, sorry.
harveyc
06-30-2008, 09:35 PM
Shaivo should have never been a political issue to begin with.
A woman's right to choose is something you and I will never agree on so that's a mute point.
BTW, I'm an indy. I have never voted for a pub and for sure won't vote for McSame but I would have voted for Ron Paul even though he doesn't agree with me on the right to choose. You have to pick your poison and this time the poison I pick will be whoever is going to take us 180 degrees from where Bush has us. McCain is not that person, sorry.
Like it or not, politicians are the folks that right laws to protect citizens. Terri Shaivo was a citizen who deserved protection. The legal system was corrupt and failed her. Maybe you're not aware, but her husband testified during a suit early on after her mysterious injury that he needed an insurance settlement so he could take care of her for the rest of her life. Then, after he has a girlfriend, he mysteriously remembers her saying that she would never want to live like that even though her close friend testified to the contrary. The judge in charge of her case is a member of a society that promotes euthanasia. Why don't you think politicians should enact laws to protect people from such horrible crimes?
It's odd how people have bought into Planned Parenthood's slogan about "right to chose". It's not just the woman's body, you know. The baby has a heart beat 21 days after fertilization and brain waves at about 40 days. It's a baby, not a "choice". Here is a woman who was born alive during a saline abortion, with cerebral palsy as a result of being burned in her mother's womb: GiannaJessen.com (http://www.giannajessen.com/). That's a "choice"??? I heard her speak at the Walk For Life West Coast back in January and her testimony was remarkable as she does not hold bitterness against anyone.
I also think Ron Paul would be a better choice than McCain. But McCain is a far better choice than Obama. I think the political system is screwed up pretty bad when we can't get better candidates than this!
By the way, back to the original video. The Farm Bill was a terrible piece of legislation and the report did a big injustice to the audience to make it seem like a great thing that Obama voted for it. Today I got my letter from the Farm Service Agency informing me of an appointment to come in and sign up for my farm subsidy not that Congress overrode the veto. Despite corn and wheat being at record prices (the program crops for which my farm has a history base), I'll get a subsidy of about $2-$3,000 this year. Are you happy about that??? My income will be high this year so I'll be paying a lot of income taxes, so I don't feel quite so bad about it. I can't even refuse payment without forfeiting the right to payment in future years when conditions might make it necessary to receive subsidies. What a system.
One more thing about the Farm Bill. Congress was so eager in spending all of that money that they couldn't even get it straight. The bill they sent to President Bush and which he vetoed was missing about 30 pages. So they had to pass it again and send him the correct copy which he dutifully vetoed again. Idiots!
momoese
07-01-2008, 12:06 AM
Her brain was mush for 15 years. If you want the government to tell you how to live or not live your life then that's fine for you, but I prefer the choice to die when I or my loved ones want without the corrupt politicians and churches getting involved.
BTW, her husband was offered 10 million to sign over his guardianship to her parents which he turned down.
And if you and your like really wanted her to not only continue to feed from her tube but actually make a real recovery and live life again you should support stem cell research. Bush and the anti choice people have seriously set the US led research back even though fetuses are no longer needed for research.
Again, you can type until your blue in the face but the fact is it won't do a thing to change my stance on this. Besides, we have much bigger fish to fry in this country thanks in large part to Bush and his "war" These pro/anti choice issues I could really care less about when people who are actually living and breathing on this earth are already suffering from bogus politics.
And a little info on McSame:
McCain leads all other senators, and all others who ran for president, in contributions from the oil and gas industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics’ analysis of federal data in the 2007-08 election cycle. McCain collected $724,000 through May, from the oil companies themselves, not the employees.
harveyc
07-01-2008, 12:44 AM
Terri's brain was not "mush". The judge would not even allow independent brain scans or listen too outside doctors, only ones he had chosen. Have you seen videos of where it appeared she was following the motion of a ballon? Have you read of cases of patients in similar conditions suddenly coming conscious even though that was never expected. Terri never made the choice to die. Her husband was no longer her "loved one" (an affidavit was filed in court where a nurse stated he said "I wish the bitch would die". He only refused the payment after he had gone too far down the slipper slope of his lies. He was living with another woman and had children with his girlfriend. He wanted Terri dead so he could remarry. Period.
Mitchel, you seem to be poorly informed on stem cell research. I support stem cell research. But not embryonic stem research that requires the destruction of human embryos that should be future citizens of our world. Maybe you'd like my liver for your own benefit? Destroying other human life for the benefit of your own is terribly greedy and evil. In addition, embryonic stem cells usually turn into tumors. Many successes have been discovered with adult stem cells, however, and that's where we should be focusing more research towards. In addition, in the past year scientists in the U.S. and Japan have discovered that they could create the same type of stem cells as embryonic stem cells by using adult stem cells. Still, some people prefer to just keep killing human life.
Okay, you chose to use the word "anti-choice" for us pro-lifers. Okay if you start going by "pro-baby killer"??? The "choice" is killing. Call it what it is and be honest about it. The vast majority pregnant women that are considering an abortion but have an ultrasound chose not to go through with an abortion. It's simple to understand why: they see that the abortion is about to kill a baby. You don't have children by your own choice, but you still certainly have know people that have rejoiced over seeing an ultrasound of their developing child. They understand how precious that child is; how can it be considered civilized to kill such innocent life?
My face is not turning "blue". I remain calm and rationale in the discussion of pro-life issues.
Now, why do you call it "Bush's war"? Don't you remember how nearly everyone in congress, including Democrats, said they supported the action? But when it turns ugly and public opinion sways in the wind, they change their tune. Maybe it would be helpful to read some of these quotes to get what people really think: snopes.com: Weapons of Mass Destruction Quotes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp).
Mitchel, the name is McCain. You seem to have a bit of trouble spelling his name! Do you thinking using something real witty like that is helpful in having an intelligent discussion?
Okay, I don't like McCain getting money from oil companies. Even worse, I don't like Obama getting money from Planned Parenthood, the biggest provider of abortions in the U.S. Few people know the history of Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood was originally known as the American Birth Control League. Her primary objectives were to rid the country of less desirable populations. Real sweet lady that gave women lots of freedom, right? Not! Margaret Sanger, Racist and Pro-Abortion (http://www.acts1711.com/sanger.htm) I believe you can Google and find that she even went camping with Adolf Hitler.
Mitchel, I don't expect you to change your mind anytime soon, if ever. Both others deserve to hear what I believe is a more rationale view than your own.
By the way, I do pray every night for an end to the War in Iraq and all wars. I also pray that all of our leaders will be aided in making good decisions. They all need all the help they can get!
Peace to you.
chong
07-01-2008, 02:17 AM
.............................................
....................................................
And a little info on McSame:
McCain leads all other senators, and all others who ran for president, in contributions from the oil and gas industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics’ analysis of federal data in the 2007-08 election cycle. McCain collected $724,000 through May, from the oil companies themselves, not the employees.
Under the underlined definition for donors from the above quote, according to the same source, Obama accepted $316,000 from the Oil & Gas Industry. And it was Obama who said, "I don’t take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change anymore." On top of that, he's accepted over $162,000 from Lobbyists.
momoese
07-01-2008, 02:48 AM
We can disagree on the state of her brain. Normal brain on the left, her brain on the right. The black areas are liquid. Looks pretty darn mushy to me.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m161/momoese/Schiavo_catscan.jpg
ESC is a necessary evil if you will to save the lives of people like Ronald Reagan and Terry. To not fund it and let other countries get the upper hand is backwards thinking.
You can call me anything you like, but the constant distraction from the real issues we face in this country is not what we need. We have much bigger problems to deal with.
So you are happy with the job Bush has done? If so them McSame is your man. You want 4 more years of this?
Yes it is Bushes war, not mine. Many people including the former white house press secretary claim he lied his way into this war. I didn't vote for him either time, and I firmly believe that the election fraud that took place put him in office, not the voters. I do not support this war and never have. I do however support our men and women in the service. Let's not get the two confused like so many war mongers love to do these days.
So you want to play the Hitler card eh? Let's not forget GWB's grandfather Prescott Bush who collaborated with the Nazis.
harveyc
07-01-2008, 02:48 AM
I used to think that abortions in the cases of rape and incest might be justified, but changed my mind over time because it just didn't make sense. What had the baby done to justify a death sentence?
Here's one woman who almost didn't survive:
Mother's rape prompts author's abortion views - News (http://media.www.michigandaily.com/media/storage/paper851/news/2004/01/15/News/Mothers.Rape.Prompts.Authors.Abortion.Views-1421429.shtml)
momoese
07-01-2008, 02:49 AM
Under the underlined definition for donors from the above quote, according to the same source, Obama accepted $316,000 from the Oil & Gas Industry. And it was Obama who said, "I don’t take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change anymore." On top of that, he's accepted over $162,000 from Lobbyists.
Chong it's my understanding that those donation numbers are from employees, not the companies themselves. Do you info stating otherwise?
harveyc
07-01-2008, 03:08 AM
Mitchel, you are the one doing the name calling with your childish use of McSame, etc. I'm not doing any name calling and I've said nothing derogatory towards you.
"Mushy" is not a medical term. People with brains that looked like that have regained consciousness. Are we going to start choosing which people die because of their physical condition. How about people in rest homes that can't take care of themselves? In a civilized society the weak and helpless are usually protected, not killed.
Did you read any of the quotes from Snopes? It's clear it's not just Bush's war, but you're convinced of that and it doesn't appear you really want to consider the facts that others supported it. Do you remember who appointed the CIA Director that provided intelligence on Iraq before we invaded?
Am I completely happy with George W. Bush's presidency? NO! I think he appointed fantastic Supreme Court justices, though. Not some justices that are intent on rewriting laws. I do think he may have got too easily convinced that going to war in Iraq was the right thing to do and was not willing to rethink his decisions, though it's a difficult mess to get out of now. Do I want more of the same? No way, I'd like to get a bunch of those liberal scum bags voted out of congress!!! :)
What on earth does George W. Bush's grandfather's tie to Nazis have to do with any of this. Do you have evidence that he had any influence on how Bush has ran his presidency? Or are you implying that somehow he has had some influence over McCain. The Hitler connection was brought up because the foundation of Planned Parenthood was largely based eugenics. Today, approximately 2/3 of all black pregnancies in the U.S. end in abortion. I'm sure Margaret Sanger would be happy with her work if she were alive today though she might have a puzzled look on her face trying to figure out if she liked Planned Parenthood contributing to Obama's election.
Here is someone that does a much better job looking out for black (and all) citizens: Alveda King (http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/testimonies/alveda-king.html)
harveyc
07-01-2008, 03:13 AM
Chong it's my understanding that those donation numbers are from employees, not the companies themselves. Do you info stating otherwise?
From FactCheck.org: Obama's Oil Spill (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_oil_spill.html), the following excerpt:
It's true that Obama doesn't take money directly from oil companies, but then, no presidential, House or Senate candidate does. They can't: Corporations have been prohibited from contributing directly to federal candidates since the Tillman Act became law in 1907.
momoese
07-01-2008, 03:32 AM
She was clinically brain dead. Hows that. Mush is mush. How much torture should she have been made to deal with anyway? I'm glad she was able to escape her condition.
No I did not read the Snopes quotes. I love Snopes but this is just not necessary. It's very clear to me that this is his war. Anyone around him that politically opposed it was attempting career suicide.
Calling Mccain McShame, McSame, whatever is just making a point. He will bring more of the same if elected.
On Bush's connection with the Nazis. War profiteering comes to mind.
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power | World news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar)
harveyc
07-01-2008, 03:37 AM
ESC is a necessary evil if you will to save the lives of people like Ronald Reagan and Terry. To not fund it and let other countries get the upper hand is backwards thinking.
It is not backwards thinking. Killing innocent life is immoral. Would you also like us to start more wars so we can have peace???
There is no evidence that research using embryonic stem cell research will save any lives. There are many promises, but zero successes. On the other hand, many research patients have been the recipients of new tumors thanks to being injected embryonic stem cells. That's forward thinking? And if embryonic stem cells will be of benefit, why not make them from adult stem cells since that has been done successfully? Needless killing of human life is backwards thinking.
Yes, people like Christopher Reeves and Michael J. Fox have been strong supporters of embryonic stem cell research. Wanting to take the human life of others for one's own benefit is evil, plain and simple.
harveyc
07-01-2008, 03:41 AM
I didn't vote for him either time, and I firmly believe that the election fraud that took place put him in office, not the voters.
I have disagreed with several decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court, but to call a unanimous 7-0 decision some sort of election fraud is not reasonable, IMO. It was a crazy situation, but the court ruled on the side of law very clearly.
momoese
07-01-2008, 03:49 AM
It is not backwards thinking. Killing innocent life is immoral.
See this is where we will always disagree. You see it as "life" I see it as a part of someones body.
I do agree that killing innocent life is wrong, but that's not the case here, IMO.
harveyc
07-01-2008, 10:17 AM
See this is where we will always disagree. You see it as "life" I see it as a part of someones body.
I do agree that killing innocent life is wrong, but that's not the case here, IMO.
What part of your body has it's own genetic code? What part of your body has the potential to grow into an independent living organism?
When an expecting couple have a pregnancy test that comes back positive, they know they have a BABY inside the mother. It's form isn't dependent on what you choose to call it. Yes, it is highly dependent on the mother for nourishment, as is any baby after birth for the first year or so.
chong
07-01-2008, 12:21 PM
Chong it's my understanding that those donation numbers are from employees, not the companies themselves. Do you info stating otherwise?
Mitchell,
In either case, McCain or Obama, the report from your referenced source, they are from private donations from people associated with the industries, not the companies. In other words, what the report is saying is that neither candidate received funds from the companies directly. After your comment, I was curious as to how the oil companies can directly contribute to any candidate in violation of a 1907 law specifically prohibiting direct contributions to presidential candidates. I remember working for a company that circumvented this by increasing our bonuses by $2000 so that we can contribute it to the candidate of the owner of the company. That owner spent 2 years plus in the "country club" after conviction on elections related charges.
Anyway, as it turns out, the source you quoted explained that the two candidates received their contributions from oil employees, their families and friends, through the Political Action Committees, whose operating costs were borne by the oil companies(as allowed by law).
momoese
07-01-2008, 11:55 PM
I may have been mistaken on where the funds came from, but the fact remains that McCain is still getting way more funding in that area.
Now to get this thread back on track talking about the McCain connection to high oil prices as seen in the video. McCain has Gramm, Berman and Black heading his campaign and writing his economic policy? These same people have actively lobbied against closing the Enron Loophole. Remeber it was the Enron Loophole that totally screwed us in California, and is now a big part of the high oil prices. McCain doesn't even have a position on the Enron Loophole "now".
The term "Flip Flopper" comes to mind.
harveyc
07-02-2008, 12:24 AM
Okay, fine. Why don't you address the Farm Bill that the news reporter criticizes McCain for voting against and applauds Obama for voting for it. Do you think that was a good bill just because it had a clause in it to end the Enron loophole even though it was wasting tens of billions of dollars? Whoopee!
Obama also hasn't been around as long. If he's taking big oil money now, he'll be sure to take more later on. Why is he taking one dime from oil?
chong
07-02-2008, 07:14 PM
Just to be "fair and balanced", here is a clip from a fellow Democrat's show and former speech writer to Pres. J. Carter, no less - - - - -
Chris Matthews, an MSNBC Democrat for the record, gets to the central point on BO------(other comments removed)---------------
Subject: Chris Matthews on Obama
Want to see a politician choke on national TV?.....watch this....
Chris was surprised when the Obama campaign's own surrogates are left utterly stumped when asked to list his legislative accomplishments as a Senator. This is such a staggering revelation, but right on point!!!!!
YouTube - Obama campaign rep STUMPED on legislative accomplishments (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o)
mskitty38583
07-02-2008, 11:36 PM
....."he inspires"....well now, im inspired to say they are all full of crap!
momoese
07-06-2008, 09:36 AM
Perhaps he thinks closing the Enron loophole is worth adding the pork. Maybe he wants to be able so say he tried to end it as a part of his campaign?
As for the farm bill, I don't know enough about it to say whether I think it's a good bill or not.
Why he's taking any oil money is anyones guess, but I'd imagine it has something to do with beating McCain.
harveyc
07-07-2008, 01:54 AM
Why he's taking any oil money is anyones guess, but I'd imagine it has something to do with beating McCain.
Sounds pretty much like "the same" to me, then. Doing anything to get elected.
momoese
07-07-2008, 09:25 AM
Same election politics yes, but not the same bunch of people with the same agenda.
harveyc
07-07-2008, 09:37 AM
Be consistent, Mitchel. The agenda is formed by the people you accept money from, right?
momoese
07-07-2008, 10:07 AM
And others. The Bush/McCain agenda comes from a bunch of Neocons and PNAC members.
mskitty38583
07-08-2008, 03:59 PM
this was sent to me by my dad this morning:
> Bill Phillips spent nearly 50 years in the US
> oil and gas industry; most of his career was with the
> Phillips Petroleum Company. Bill is a descendant of Frank
> Phillips. Frank Phillips, along with his brother Lee Eldas
> (L.E.) Phillips, Sr., founded the original Phillips
> Petroleum Company in 1917 in Bartlesville, OK.. Do you
> remember Phillips 66 gas stations? Phillips Petroleum
> Company merged with Conoco, Inc. in 2002 to form the
> current ConocoPhillips oil company.
>
> So, when Bill talks about oil and gas issues, I
> tend to listen - very closely. I think that you will find
> Bill's thoughts and facts very revealing, very
> compelling and very difficult to argue with.
>
> As you prepare to cast your crucial ballots
> this Fall, please think long and hard about the
> far-reaching, cumulative effects of the US political
> philosophies, policies and legislation that have
> contributed to the current and future US oil supply
> situation.
>
>
> May 28, 2008
>
> "Big Oil"
>
> Did you know that the United States does NOT
> have any big oil companies. It's true: the largest
> American oil company, Exxon Mobil, is only the 14th largest
> in the world, and is dwarfed by the really big oil
> companies--all owned by foreign governments or
> government-sponsored monopolies--that dominate the
> world's oil supply.
>
> This graph below tells the story; you can
> barely see the American oil companies as minor players on
> the right side of the chart in gray. The chart was
> presented to the House committee last week by Chevron.
>
> With 94% of the world's oil supply locked
> up by foreign governments, most of which are hostile to the
> United States , the relatively puny American oil companies
> do not have access to enough crude oil to significantly
> affect the market and help bring prices down. Thus,
> ExxonMobil, a "small" oil company, buys 90% of
> the crude oil that it refines for the U.S. market from the
> big players, i.e, mostly-hostile foreign governments. The
> price at the U.S. pump is rising because the price the big
> oil companies charge ExxonMobil and the other small
> American companies for crude oil is going up as the value
> of the American dollar goes down. They will eventually
> bleed this country into printing even more money and we
> will go into runway inflation once again as we did under
> the Carter Democratic reign.
>
> This is obviously a tough situation for the
> American consumer. The irony is that it doesn't have to
> be that way. The United States --unlike, say, France
> --actually has vast petroleum reserves. It would be
> possible for American oil companies to develop those
> reserves, play a far bigger role in international markets,
> and deliver gas at the pump to American consumers at a much
> lower price, while creating many thousands of jobs for
> Americans. This would be infinitely preferable to shipping
> endless bill
> ions of dollars to Saudi Arabia , Russia and
> Venezuela to be used in propping up their economies.
>
> So, why doesn't it happen? Because the
> Democrat Party--aided, sadly, by a handful of
> Republicans--deliberately keeps gas prices high and our
> domestic oil companies small by putting most of our
> reserves off limits to development. China is now drilling
> in the Caribbean, off Cuba but our own companies are barred
> by law from developing large oil fields off the coasts of
> Florida and California . Enormous oil-shale deposits in the
> Rocky Mountain states could go a long way toward supplying
> American consumers' needs, but the Democratic Congress
> won't allow those resources to be developed. ANWR
> contains vast petroleum reserves, but we don't know how
> vast, because Congress, not wanting the American people to
> know how badly its policies are hurting our economy, has
> made it illegal to explore and map those reserves, let
> alone develop them.
>
> In short, all Americans are paying a terrible
> price for the Democratic Party's perverse energy
> policies. I own some small interests in tiny, 4
> barrel-per-day oil wells in Wyoming . We have 14 agencies
> that have iron-hand jurisdiction over us.. If we drop any
> oil on the ground when the refinery truck comes to pick up
> oil from our holding tanks, we are fined. Yet down the road
> the state will spray thousands of gallons of used oil on a
> dirt road to control dirt. When it rains that oil runs into
> rivers and creeks. Yet a cup of oil on the ground at our
> wellhead is a $50,000 EPA fine plus additional fines from
> state regulating agencies. They treat oil as if it were
> plutonium that has the potential to leak into the
> environment. We are fined if our dirt burms are not high
> enough around a holding tank, yet the truck that picks up
> our oil runs down the road at 60 mph with no burm around
> it. People wonder why there is no more exploration in this
> country. It's because of the regulators; people who
> have lived their whole lives doing nothing but imposing
> fines on small operators like us for doing mostly nothing.
>
> So, America enjoy your $4.00 per gallon
> gasoline. Your dollar is now worth 0.62 Euro-Cents. The
> lack of American production of GNP, the massive trade
> deficit (as labor markets have moved overseas to fight
> insanely high union imposed labor costs in America ) and
> the run away printing of money (backed by nothing of value
> here in America ) has caused the dollar to become more
> worthless on the international market. And that's where
> our oil comes from. It's paid for with dollars that
> become more worthless everyday. If we had just kept par
> with the Euro we'd be paying $62 dollars per barrel for
> oil (42 gallons) or about $1.50 instead of $2.50 a gallon
> for crude oil.
>
> What the US government also does not tell you
> is that it is the leaseholder and royalty recipient of most
> oil production and receives 25% of the gross oil sales
> before we pay for electricity to lift the oil, propane to
> keep the oil-water separators from freezing in the winters.
> We pay a pumper to visit each well everyday plus we have
> equipment failures all the time. We pay for that out of our
> 75% of gross sales. The government does not share in any
> expenses to run any production well. So, if the Big Oil
> Companies are making record profits, then so is the federal
> government from it's 25% tax on every molecule of oil
> sold to a refinery in this country. Why isn't the
> government on the stand for "Record" profits?
> What you don't see is this 25% of the sales price of
> crude oil being siphoned away by the government. That money
> plus the road taxes, state taxes, etc. amounts to over $1
> per gallon of gasoline you are buying while the governments
> only admit to about 50 cents per gallon.
>
> To all you Democrats, when you go vote for your
> candidate, a blazing liberal like Barrack Hussein Obama or
> Hillary Clinton, just keep in mind that their liberal
> spending habits will further decrease the value of the
> American dollar on the world market and your gasoline costs
> will hike even higher. As they introduce more give-away
> programs, raise taxes on everyone to pay people not to
> produce or work, your dollar will continue to dwindle on
> the world market and you will be paying $10.00 per gallon
> at the next election. Cheap hydrocarbon fuel is all over.
> Enjoy! Enjoy the fruits of your decision to elect these
> folks when you are there in that voting booth and you stab
> your pin through a Democrat's name.
>
> William "Bill" Phillips
harveyc
07-08-2008, 04:52 PM
Thanks, mskitty. I've been undecided on ANWR because of environmental reasons, but am becoming less undecided. This tells a story of ANWR quite a bit different than what we are fed by the mainstream media! The Truth About ANWR Drilling » The Foundry (http://blog.heritage.org/2008/06/29/the-truth-about-anwr/)
mskitty38583
07-08-2008, 04:59 PM
my dad sent that one to me about 3 days ago. im one of those tree huggers and animal critters lovers and i have issues with the environment too. so you are not alone in this fact. i also have something my dad sent to me the other day, but im not gonna post it here. harvey i sent it to you by pm.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.