View Full Version : New concept GM high density field
louis14
08-11-2018, 09:59 PM
As our fruit quality is improving all the time and we are now seeing nice sized bunches growing on the second generation pstems in our Gros Michel fields. And in view of the current state of our fields which were planted 1.80m apart, I decided to test plant these bananas much closer with the option of using the field either as a pup only generating field after decapitation of the mature plant, keeping however my options open for the possibility of this being a fruit producing field if the operation went smoothly; or both.
It all started back in mid-March of this year when we dug up hundreds of pups of GM and nursed them for two and a half months under our new 50% shade polytunnel.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63389&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63389&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63388&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63388&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63390&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63390&ppuser=26930)
Wanting to recycle PVC piping that had been used previously for sprinklers in lemongrass fields, I decided on a rather new aereal approach to irrigation, made possible by the availability of a small screwable micro sprinkler. One of the problems we always encounter in ground sprinkler systems is that weeds displace or create obstacles which forces us to regularly verify every sprinkler head, a back-breaking exercise for our workers and a source of stunted growth due to lack of water at the right time. The small standard ground-positionned sprinklers also usually have a small hole for the water to pass, a hole which is easily blocked by debris and the growth of green algae.
These newly available screwable micro sprinklers have a much larger passage for the water, allowing for rapid irrigation of a large volume of water and are also less subject to blockage.
The aereal pipe also allowed me to consider watering two rows of bananas with one pipe instead of the usual one row.
This new design irrigation system was easily installed, maintained in place by 1 meter long 12 mm diameter sections of rebar planted into the ground at 5 meter intervals
The planting was very quick as I acquired a new earth drilling machine using an auger of the same diameter as the bags in which we had transplanted our pups. We used as a measuring tool to ensure distance was respected between each plant and made holes at exactly one meter distance from each other, and this in both directions.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63391&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63391&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63393&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63393&ppuser=26930)
Transplanting was extremely quick and efficient, and within two days, four workers had properly transplanted eight hundred plants into the new 800m2 field, a very high density indeed.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63394&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63394&ppuser=26930)
After two and a half months in the ground, the plants are looking fantastic. They are folear fed every two weeks with our usual mix. Watered when necessary but it is the rainy season so we have only had to water them half a dozen times.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63392&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63392&ppuser=26930)
The field has only needed to be weeded once with a hoe, which was a quick operation as the field is small in surface.
Now after two and a half months in the ground, the leaf cover is providing enough shade to stunt further weed growth which is a blessing I must say.
We are regularly deleafing the lower leaves to push for faster development and this is also proving to work very well, in the same manner we apply to our Namwa
The high density planting allows the plants to protect each other from the elements, and there are some very interesting interactions happening here.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63395&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63395&ppuser=26930)
I will keep you updated on developments in the coming months. :bananas_b
edwmax
08-12-2018, 04:46 AM
The field looks great. ... I set my mats at 1m separation for 4 plants and the mats about 3 m apart. As you said this help the plants to protect each other.
... I'm wondering if a skip row (3 or 4 rows & skip) is needed to allow easier movement for equipment & labors though the field. .... But with the defoliation of the lower leaves, this may not be necessary when the plants are mature. I know how tight the plants get when the pups come.
louis14
08-12-2018, 04:56 AM
The field looks great. ... I set my mats at 1m separation for 4 plants and the mats about 3 m apart. As you said this help the plants to protect each other.
... I'm wondering if a skip row (3 or 4 rows & skip) is needed to allow easier movement for equipment & labors though the field. .... But with the defoliation of the lower leaves, this may not be necessary when the plants are mature. I know how tight the plants get when the pups come.
Thanks for that!
What I am really happy about is the fact that for once, we do not have large areas of stunted growth with no rational explanation. This seems to be caused by the fish shoal factor and if so is really a great boost for us as it will bring more plants to harvest at the same time, at least for the first crop.
As the stem of this cultivar easily reaches heights over 3 meters now that we have got the feeding under control, it will be a nice and easy walk under the shade of the fronds in six months time. We control the pups, as we need them for breeding, leaving only the largest one to take over next and so on.
edwmax
08-12-2018, 05:14 AM
Thanks .. I'm just a hobby farmer so I know, you know what you are doing. ... To walk though or work in the field now would cause a lot of broken leaves. That was my observation of the last photo.
Oh ... my 3 meter mat separation has to do with mixed Banana varieties in the same field.
edwmax
08-12-2018, 06:25 AM
Question: Do you harvest the spent/fruited stems for fiber?
louis14
08-12-2018, 06:47 AM
Question: Do you harvest the spent/fruited stems for fiber?
Right now we don't, we compost them. Later, when we can afford a mulching implement for our tractor, we will mulch them for our own use thoughout the plantation. Its a progressive development process. There are factors such as transport logistics involved as we are 100km from the main buyers market.
We need more plants in the ground so we can reach a critical minimum size, once that is achieved, everything will be easier.
louis14
08-14-2018, 01:47 AM
Yesterday the field was given some TLC
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63416&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63416&ppuser=26930)
HMelendez
08-14-2018, 05:38 AM
Awesome Louis!........Looking good!.....
:2723::bananarow::2723:
beam2050
08-14-2018, 06:26 AM
yes looks fantastic. like the natural walkways and hand railings for tourists. the crunch of the leaves will keep the bears away. :2729:
louis14
08-14-2018, 06:34 AM
yes looks fantastic. like the natural walkways and hand railings for tourists. the crunch of the leaves will keep the bears away. :2729:
:nanadrink:
I sometimes wake up at night in a cold sweat after dreaming that a herd of wild elephants has made its way into our plantation to gorge themselves on the fruit. Fortunately, the nearest known herd is a few hundred miles away. :ha:
The "handrails" are one inch PVC pipes, 50cm off the ground. The plants are reaching five feet from corms that were dug up exactly five months ago.
What is extremely pleasing this time is the size regularity.
beam2050
08-14-2018, 07:09 AM
hadn't thought about elephants. :ha: know your close to the mountains.
I made a banana circle in the back yard, approximately 5 meters in diameter. I am taking all my banana leaves and throwing them in the center to catch tree leaves and grass and hold them there. also keep the weeds down. guess that is what you are doing there?
louis14
08-14-2018, 07:20 AM
hadn't thought about elephants. :ha: know your close to the mountains.
I made a banana circle in the back yard, approximately 5 meters in diameter. I am taking all my banana leaves and throwing them in the center to catch tree leaves and grass and hold them there. also keep the weeds down. guess that is what you are doing there?
Exactly! Also the leaves are full of nutrients that once degraded, will continue to feed the plants. We are deleafing down to three leaves nowadays, with a cigar counted as a leaf. You would be amazed how quickly the new leaves appear, currently every three days on average on the Namwa, I will be checking this data on these GM as well in the coming weeks. We now only folear feed our crops. It's much quicker to execute and more economical in fertilizer. Plant performance is also not affected by soil PH as it was with the use of granulate.
beam2050
08-14-2018, 07:34 AM
thank you. foliar feeding would be more efficient that close together and being that close together would keep ground temps cooler. apt to be why your plants are growing so well. we have edwmax beating the proverbial band wagon with foliar feeding. I believe you just made his day!
edwmax
08-14-2018, 08:31 AM
I remember being shot-down when I first spoke of foliar feeding & misting the nana plants on the forum about a year & half ago. But after a couple of members tried it on their very sick nana plants with nothing else to lose and reported immediate improvements within a few hours. Those comments negative comments to foliar feeding stopped. Then other member started using foliar on their nana patches and potted plants.
.....:woohoonaner: ... It's always great to see validation that a method works.
beam2050
08-15-2018, 07:04 AM
Plant performance is also not affected by soil PH as it was with the use of granulate.
are the gm also pupping faster as with the namwa? my guess is your thinking to condense your namwa fields and ultimately gm will be your major production.
edwmax
08-15-2018, 07:33 AM
...
We now only folear feed our crops. It's much quicker to execute and more economical in fertilizer. Plant performance is also not affected by soil PH as it was with the use of granulate.
Don't forget the roots & corm still needs to develop & grow, so ground application is still needed when transplanting and about 45-60 days later for 30-40% total of fertilizer needs for pre-shooting growth.
Usually foliar spraying starts about 60 days after transplanting. ... Me, I would give the plants a boost a few days or 2 weeks after transplanting in addition to the ground fertilizer. ... Heck, make-um nanas FAT.
From your photo, if you are using the irrigation lines to apply the fertilizer, then you are doing more Fertigation than foliar spray after the plant leaves get above the lines. ... Are you using separate spray equipment to spray the top of the banana plants?
louis14
08-15-2018, 08:25 AM
Don't forget the roots & corm still needs to develop & grow, so ground application is still needed when transplanting and about 45-60 days later for 30-40% total of fertilizer needs for pre-shooting growth.
Usually foliar spraying starts about 60 days after transplanting. ... Me, I would give the plants a boost a few days or 2 weeks after transplanting in addition to the ground fertilizer. ... Heck, make-um nanas FAT.
From your photo, if you are using the irrigation lines to apply the fertilizer, then you are doing more Fertigation than foliar spray after the plant leaves get above the lines. ... Are you using separate spray equipment to spray the top of the banana plants?
We do not transplant the corms directly into the field anymore, we nurse them for two and a half months in grow bags, under a 400m2 50% shade hardening tent in the warm season and in shaded greenhouses in the colder months. During those two and a half months they get all they need and grow to about 3 feet in height and the stem can easily reach 1 & 1/2 inches in diameter.
Only then are they transplanted in to the fields.
The raised irrigation pipes could of course be used for fertigation and the system is already preinstalled for this but there is currently no need for that. We have high pressure spray equipment that we use for all the farm, in particular for our hundreds of Longan and Mango trees for which the folear treatment technique has been perfected for many many years now (our area is the World's top producer of Longan). The system is a compact tractor driven 200 liter tank and spray engine/pump that we use for spraying all our plants and the ground around the plants and the bunches from under the bags to protect the bunches from pests.
Our GM bananas look pretty good these days so I would say the system is working. We are getting top prices at the market for them and cannot supply enough for the demand. We have 6000 plants in the ground or ready to go in right now and aim to double that in the next twelve months if all goes according to plan. Concentrating mostly on two cultivars of GM. :bananas_b
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63419&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63419&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63420&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63420&ppuser=26930)
louis14
08-15-2018, 08:30 AM
are the gm also pupping faster as with the namwa? my guess is your thinking to condense your namwa fields and ultimately gm will be your major production.
ABSOLUTELY!
I regret now having planted so many Namwa (about 2000), they take twice the time of the GM to crop. The trees are too high so bagging is a no-no, therefore they provide nice and comfy nest for the local bats, squirrels and rats.
The market price realized is also not interesting when compared to GM, so yes indeed. It is not a priority but when space runs out, they will be replaced with this more efficient cultivar. :birthdaynana:
edwmax
08-15-2018, 12:17 PM
ABSOLUTELY!
I regret now having planted so many Namwa (about 2000), they take twice the time of the GM to crop. The trees are too high so bagging is a no-no, therefore they provide nice and comfy nest for the local bats, squirrels and rats.
The market price realized is also not interesting when compared to GM, so yes indeed. It is not a priority but when space runs out, they will be replaced with this more efficient cultivar. :birthdaynana:
Since you are not happy with the Namwa, Let me propose an experiment. ... A year or so ago it was stated, by a noted forum member & active grower, that topping the nana plant would force it to flower sooner and at a shorter hight. Try this with a dozen or so plants in that field. They may have to be topped twice. Keep a few lower leaves (or not ???) but chop the plant top off at about 4 ft (1 m). The rest of the field would be your control plants. ... If this info is correct then the bunches should be reachable and flowering can be sooner. ... It will work or not work. The plants will fruit anyway, so I don't think there is any thing to lose trying.
Just a thought. You do seem to be adventurous.
louis14
08-15-2018, 12:35 PM
Since you are not happy with the Namwa, Let me propose an experiment. ... A year or so ago it was stated, by a noted forum member & active grower, that topping the nana plant would force it to flower sooner and at a shorter hight. Try this with a dozen or so plants in that field. They may have to be topped twice. Keep a few lower leaves (or not ???) but chop the plant top off at about 4 ft (1 m). The rest of the field would be your control plants. ... If this info is correct then the bunches should be reachable and flowering can be sooner.
Just a thought. You do seem to be adventurous.
Interesting idea, thanks!
If you have the link to that thread, I would be grateful. I'd need to understand the scientific logic in that.
Akula
08-15-2018, 12:44 PM
Hey Louis!
Are you taking any unusual (creative) or additional steps to prevent disease since you have increased your planting density?
Thanks!
louis14
08-15-2018, 10:28 PM
Hey Louis!
Are you taking any unusual (creative) or additional steps to prevent disease since you have increased your planting density?
Thanks!
Hi Akula,
I will only discuss the GM cultivars as we are stopping any further development of Namwa and will end up replacing them with GM.
Basically, we have very few problems with the two cultivars of GM we handle as they are quite endemic to this region and therefore have adapted to resist local diseases. Our main problem is rust thrips which has obliged us to use some regular mild pesticide spraying. Apart from that, we now only spread from our own pups and macro propagated plantlets and apply a selective breeding process in the spirit of Fukuoka.
Deleafing is very important for us nowadays so as not to let the plant become dormant. Plants that are continuously growing new leaves are healthy, plants that are allowed to become more or less dormant become easily sick. So basically we push them to grow and never stop doing that. It seems to be working for us.
We control pupping, as we harvest the pups, leaving always the strongest until the first pstem flowers, then we start to leave a second pup. We also deleaf the pups as soon as they start to grow larger fronds.
No strangers are allowed into the banana fields and vehicle circulation is very much controlled. Tools and tanks are regularly disinfected :2738:
Akula
08-15-2018, 11:20 PM
Thank you for the response Louis.
I think I will try your deleafing technique on one of my namwa pups to see if it grows faster in my patch. My namwas fully unroll a new leaf every seven days. If I could trim that to five days it would reduce the vegetative phase by almost 30% which would be awesome in my zone.
I suppose there is a risk that by reducing the number of leaves fruit quality or number may suffer due to a reduction in total/accumulated photosynthesis activity over the growth period since there are fewer leaves but for me and my zone that is probably an acceptable risk/trade-off if it increases the probability of obtaining fruit reliably each year.
Your field looks great! So much green!
edwmax
08-16-2018, 05:00 AM
Interesting idea, thanks!
If you have the link to that thread, I would be grateful. I'd need to understand the scientific logic in that.
To my reelection, there was no science given. It was just a statement in reference to forced dwarfism. ... I think it was PR-Giants, that made the comment. May be he will see this post and comment.
I'll look later for the original post.
Just think about it. A Plant only grow so many leaves before flowering. So if the pstem is chopped when reaching about 75% height and before the plant starts stacking leaves, it still has time to grow those leaves before flowering. But not be able to add much height. ... You are de-leafing the plant anyway, so remove the upper pstem/leaves and allow the new leaves to grow at a short height.
Anyway, your in a very good position to try this without any additional cost. The info gained would/could be useful with other varieties.
louis14
08-16-2018, 09:05 AM
To my reelection, there was no science given. It was just a statement in reference to forced dwarfism. ... I think it was PR-Giants, that made the comment. May be he will see this post and comment.
I'll look later for the original post.
Just think about it. A Plant only grow so many leaves before flowering. So if the pstem is chopped when reaching about 75% height and before the plant starts stacking leaves, it still has time to grow those leaves before flowering. But not be able to add much height. ... You are de-leafing the plant anyway, so remove the upper pstem/leaves and allow the new leaves to grow at a short height.
Anyway, your in a very good position to try this without any additional cost. The info gained would/could be useful with other varieties.
The subject of this thread is not optimizing Namwa performance but field planting density. I have another thread about this subject so I will reply there
http://www.bananas.org/f2/forcing-k-namwa-grow-faster-48370.html
louis14
09-04-2018, 11:51 PM
One month has passed since the last TLC photo. Another shot at deleafing the whole field and the K. Hom are looking just fine. It is now easy to creep into the field, just by bending over slightly. The highest leaves are reaching up to 8 feet and all is good. We could do with a little more rain though!
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63560&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63560&ppuser=26930)
Akula
09-05-2018, 12:18 AM
Just re-read the thread and understand you are planting at a density of about 4,000 plants per acre. GM is a pretty big plant too. Waiting to see what happens when the plants are 3-4 meters tall.
Looks fantastic!
louis14
09-05-2018, 12:23 AM
Just re-read the thread and understand you are planting at a density of about 4,000 plants per acre. GM is a pretty big plant too. Waiting to see what happens when the plants are 3-4 meters tall.
Looks fantastic!
Thanks, it's already nice and shaded under there. I'm thinking to install a beer stall in the green cool...:nanadrink:
Nicolas Naranja
09-05-2018, 04:20 PM
That looks awesome. The plantains I planted were done at 1200 plants per acre. I though that number was really high. Twin rows 15 feet on center 5 feet between plants with a 10' drive row.
louis14
09-05-2018, 06:23 PM
That looks awesome. The plantains I planted were done at 1200 plants per acre. I though that number was really high. Twin rows 15 feet on center 5 feet between plants with a 10' drive row.
We planted all our GM previously at 1200 per acre, these fields are all fruiting and pupping and there is so much space and weeds between each plant that it incited me to try this new HD planting.
Another important aspect is the fact that the new watering system is just awesome.
We have another field ready to plant now, just waiting for the rain to make easy drilling.
louis14
09-22-2018, 06:48 AM
We just today finished transplanting a second HD field. We are particularly proud as the 600 GM we transplanted are all issued from our own macro-propagation operation. The density has been decreased as an additional experiment, instead of 1 meter between plants we have planted at 1,2 meters between plants which has decreased the density per acre from 4000 to 2750. Not that we are unhappy with the 4000 field, it's just so we can evaluate the best option for us, for our future fields. We have kept the overhead irrigation system as it is proving to be perfect in its functionality, delivering large and precise amounts of water with sprinklers that do not get easily blocked and that are away from weed, earth and bug interference. Watering two rows with one pipe also allows great savings on irrigation equipment.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63679&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63679&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63680&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63680&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63682&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63682&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63681&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63681&ppuser=26930)
HMelendez
09-22-2018, 07:07 AM
Louis,
Looking good!.....Amazing!.....You are doing an awesome job!.....Thanks for posting/sharing an update!.....Keep it up my friend!.....
:2723::bananarow::2723:
Best day
09-22-2018, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the updates. It is really interesting to see how you plan and design these
Fields.
Bill
Akula
09-22-2018, 09:22 AM
Thanks for the update Louis!
That's a great photo showing your sprinkler system. Great water shot straight to the pstem area.
How much water is delivered through the irrigation system per plant differ during the life stages of the plant in the field i.e. small pup, medium, large, fruiting?
Thanks!
louis14
09-22-2018, 10:13 AM
Thanks for the update Louis!
That's a great photo showing your sprinkler system. Great water shot straight to the pstem area.
How much water is delivered through the irrigation system per plant differ during the life stages of the plant in the field i.e. small pup, medium, large, fruiting?
Thanks!
Hi Akula
Right now it is the rainy season so we try not to water but if we have 3-4 days without rain then we will irrigate these young plants. During the dry season we normally water the bananas three times per week if possible starting mid afternoon. Our soil is very sandy and the water penetrates the soil very quickly so it is of no use to water too much, it's better to water regularly and that is what we do. We have to pump the water up from the river to irrigate the whole plantation and this is done with 4 inch pipes and a massive 5 liter diesel engine and pump.
When it becomes worthwhile I will upgrade the system to a solar pump but this is a large expense not yet justifiable. To answer your question we give about the same amount of water to 3 months old plants as we do to adults and we try to keep all that reasonable as the pump engine burns 4 liters of diesel per hour. I have not measured how much water we give to each plant as we measure more in pumping time but judging by the puddles we create we give at least 30 to 50 liters of river water to each plant, more to the big namwah bushes and we spend our time opening and closing valves and running up and down the plantation to the different zones.
louis14
09-29-2018, 05:57 AM
Yesterday i measured the sprinkler flow rate, each of those green sprinklers spurts out 1,5 liters per minute which is massive. 20mn = 30 liters per plant. In 40 minutes, we pump 18,000 liters of water onto that new field. We also tested the fertigation system and it also works fine.
beam2050
09-29-2018, 06:23 AM
wow, blow those plants over. how much pressure are you running at the pumps?
louis14
09-29-2018, 07:47 AM
wow, blow those plants over. how much pressure are you running at the pumps?
Its quite a big piece of land and it's fully irrigated, so we have a Japan made fireman's pump with in theory a max discharge capacity of 2400 liters per minute @ 8 bar. This is run by a 5000 cc diesel engine and we have four inch water pipes running underground throughout the plantation. We need to service the pump, take it away to be dismantled and rebuilt as we are not reaching that max capacity and there is always some air in the system, but for that we would need a couple of weeks of regular rainfall to feel safe. Also we run the engine slowly so as not to use up too much fuel. What's good with these new green sprinkler heads is that they have a large hole that doesn't get blocked easily by the usual green algae deposit. We usually irrigate through 3-400 sprinklers max at any one time, which pushes the muck out. Its not nasty on the plants by any means.
beam2050
09-29-2018, 08:47 AM
8 bar MIGHT be a bit to much pressure for your piping, depending on how you system is connected. would be to much pressure for glued joints but not for joints that are connected with say victaulic clamps. at 1.5 liters per minute your getting the job done by the sound of it. probably a good thing your throttling that motor down. at 5 bar per minute you would be doing over 70 psi which should be ok for your glued joints which I presume you are using.
your air leak is probably your shaft seal which might be wearing out from the dirty river water which should be very good for the plants. shaft seals can be pretty easy to replace depending on condition or type of pump. some fire pumps use a type of rope shaft seal that is very easy to replace. you just need a cork screw type puller. these seals require a lot of greasing. your pump should leak at the shaft seal if that is the problem.
if not your leak is from your suction pipe. I would watch out for your suction being to close to the surface of the water.
but I figure you already know this or have people who do. thought I would throw it out tho.
louis14
09-29-2018, 09:15 AM
8 bar MIGHT be a bit to much pressure for your piping, depending on how you system is connected. would be to much pressure for glued joints but not for joints that are connected with say victaulic clamps. at 1.5 liters per minute your getting the job done by the sound of it. probably a good thing your throttling that motor down. at 5 bar per minute you would be doing over 70 psi which should be ok for your glued joints which I presume you are using.
your air leak is probably your shaft seal which might be wearing out from the dirty river water which should be very good for the plants. shaft seals can be pretty easy to replace depending on condition or type of pump. some fire pumps use a type of rope shaft seal that is very easy to replace. you just need a cork screw type puller. these seals require a lot of greasing. your pump should leak at the shaft seal if that is the problem.
if not your leak is from your suction pipe. I would watch out for your suction being to close to the surface of the water.
but I figure you already know this or have people who do. thought I would throw it out tho.
Correct! Glued PVC class 8.5 pipes all the way, but we have some safety caps that will blow out like a rig hitting oil when the foreman forgets to open a valve. The suction pipe was replaced recently so I know it has to be seals or worn out inner parts. The good thing is this pump has bronze inners, forget about any spares from Japan though, the prices would be crazy but the locals can re-make any part if needed, which is great. As I said, we just need some safety with the rain as I can't risk not watering the banana plantlets. It seems we won't be able to do it this year as there are only two months left before the dry season starts. I'm still hoping though. I basically don't want to spend too much on the current pump as I plan to change the whole setup to solar powered once all the land is fully planted.
beam2050
09-29-2018, 10:02 AM
since you are putting out 8 bar I pretty much take it is a centrifugal pump and not a positive displacement pump. being a centrifugal pump I would THINK there is very little pump wear on your inside of your pump unless it has been pumping rocks or concrete. and it sounds like this pump is running fine except for a bit of air which won't hurt anything [might run a long time like that]. I also assume it has been a long time since it was new. even so I don't see to much internal wear. could be wrong. shaft seals and or suction.
I don't believe I would run it up much higher than what you are already running it at.
louis14
09-29-2018, 10:28 AM
Centrifugal, yes!
Here are a recent photo of the beast. It starts and runs great.
Remember, we border the jungle
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63786 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63786&ppuser=26930)
Akula
09-29-2018, 10:32 AM
Wow! That is a beast! Haha.
Louis, it seems you have increased your upstream operations substantially over the last year. I'm interested to know if you have had to make any modifications or improvements to the downstream operations (fruit removal from the field, processing, packing) when it comes off in larger volumes and maybe within a tighter window than historically?
Thanks!
louis14
09-29-2018, 10:49 AM
Wow! That is a beast! Haha.
Louis, it seems you have increased your upstream operations substantially over the last year. I'm interested to know if you have had to make any modifications or improvements to the downstream operations (fruit removal from the field, processing, packing) when it comes off in larger volumes and maybe within a tighter window than historically?
Thanks!
Our volume is still steady as it has been for the last six months since the first three fields started fruiting. Another four fields are on the way but it will be another eight months before they can start to be harvested. Each field is about six hundred trees. We plan on doubling that total once more in the next two years, then we can harvest a full truckload once a week. It will still remain a nice and small operation, more concerned with fruit quality.
I recently posted in the "what did you harvest today" section our typical harvest. We get this every three weeks right now with some extras in between.
Banana plants do grow quite slowly and we also make our own plantlets.
This time allows us to master and permanently improve our knowledge and technique.
beam2050
09-29-2018, 01:00 PM
Centrifugal, yes!
Here are a recent photo of the beast. It starts and runs great.
Remember, we border the jungle
nothing to be ashamed of there. that diesel will have plennnty of power for that setup. is that a transmission on the belt end of that pump. looks like a hydraulic pump. your post is in the way to tell what seals are in the pump. looks like the pump is in excellent shape on the outside, means its probably in good shape on the inside too. looks like oil on the bottom of the pump.
love the green rag on the hose bib.
louis14
09-29-2018, 08:10 PM
Here is a close up of the centrifugal pump. The model is a Morita ME-5. I have the parts list that I got from a nice engineer in Japan. This photo is two years old, the suction hose has been changed since and the sealant paste replaced. The smaller hose goes out to cool the engine. The belts are new. The pulley on the engine is a 10 inch, on the pump is a 4 inch
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63796 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63796&ppuser=26930)
beam2050
09-30-2018, 05:46 AM
one heck of a pump!
ok, dead in the center between your suction line and your pulley there is that square hole you can see the shaft. on the pump side of that hole there is a large nut with notches for a c style spanner wrench. your graphite packings are under that. by tightening up that nut you tighten up your packings as they wear. there should be a place near that nut to grease your packings. loosening that nut allows you to slide the nut back on the shaft and you can put in a new packing or replace the packings by pulling them out with a corkscrew type puller.
couldn't find a break down of that pump. so I am going by what I know. most pumps I am familiar with have two nuts to tighten the packing flange. but this one looks like it has one huge nut that takes a spanner which is more stupid proof. it looks like your packing nut is almost bottomed out so it will be needing some packing soon.
packing puller
http://www.pumpstationparts.com/content/images/thumbs/0002335_packing-puller_320.jpeg
graphite packing
http://www.heroos.com/images/up_images/Graphite-Packing-reinforced-with-Inconel-wire.jpg
louis14
09-30-2018, 06:42 AM
one heck of a pump!
ok, dead in the center between your suction line and your pulley there is that square hole you can see the shaft. on the pump side of that hole there is a large nut with notches for a c style spanner wrench. your graphite packings are under that. by tightening up that nut you tighten up your packings as they wear. there should be a place near that nut to grease your packings. loosening that nut allows you to slide the nut back on the shaft and you can put in a new packing or replace the packings by pulling them out with a corkscrew type puller.
couldn't find a break down of that pump. so I am going by what I know. most pumps I am familiar with have two nuts to tighten the packing flange. but this one looks like it has one huge nut that takes a spanner which is more stupid proof. it looks like your packing nut is almost bottomed out so it will be needing some packing soon.
packing puller
http://www.pumpstationparts.com/content/images/thumbs/0002335_packing-puller_320.jpeg
graphite packing
http://www.heroos.com/images/up_images/Graphite-Packing-reinforced-with-Inconel-wire.jpg
I've been trying to upload the plan but there were some issues. It seems to be ok now. Many thanks for your knowledgeable input. Much appreciated, pumps is not my forte...
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63798&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63798&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63799&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63799&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63800&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63800&ppuser=26930)
beam2050
09-30-2018, 09:21 AM
single stage turbine pump with transfer case and self priming pump and has a engage, disengage clutch.
you grease zerk is locate on the backside bottom of the pump. in other words on the near bottom of the pump just between the pump and before your packing nut on the plate ahead of your access housing.
grease daily one or two pumps will do it. be sure to grease right away after installing new packings.
use your spanner wrench to tighten the gland nut occasionally. do not over tighten it will burn out your shaft.
I do not know where to tell you to get graphite packing on your side of the world but it should be REAL easy to find. takes 2. you can cut your size by using a wood dowel, pvc or pipe by wrapping it around and cutting at a 45 degree angle. your dowel or pipe should be the same diameter as your shaft. you come up with one full round circle. size of packing can be determined by the size of your shaft and by unscrewing the gland nut and use a caliper to measure the outside of the step that goes into the pump. [don't know how exactly to describe it to you.] use the 2 measurements to figure your packing size. should be [around] 5/8 inch. course your going to be metric. for fast fix you can just shove 1 packing in but I would pull the old packings out most of the time and replace both. [could take 3 but your diagram shows 2.]
if you need me I will be here.
spanner wrench. just have your people build it like the top picture with the nubs out but it would probably be easier to build like the bottom picture, just have the nubs stick out like the top picture
http://www.usatoolwarehouse.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/arm-34-101.gif
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/dr350_images/shock_wrench_1.jpg
if you need me I will be here. don't worry about your knowledge on pumps I have more of a greasy thumb than a green one.
louis14
09-30-2018, 09:46 AM
single stage turbine pump with transfer case and self priming pump and has a engage, disengage clutch.
you grease zerk is locate on the backside bottom of the pump. in other words on the near bottom of the pump just between the pump and before your packing nut on the plate ahead of your access housing.
grease daily one or two pumps will do it. be sure to grease right away after installing new packings.
use your spanner wrench to tighten the gland nut occasionally. do not over tighten it will burn out your shaft.
I do not know where to tell you to get graphite packing on your side of the world but it should be REAL easy to find. takes 2. you can cut your size by using a wood dowel, pvc or pipe by wrapping it around and cutting at a 45 degree angle. your dowel or pipe should be the same diameter as your shaft. you come up with one full round circle. size of packing can be determined by the size of your shaft and by unscrewing the gland nut and use a caliper to measure the outside of the step that goes into the pump. [don't know how exactly to describe it to you.] use the 2 measurements to figure your packing size. should be [around] 5/8 inch. course your going to be metric. for fast fix you can just shove 1 packing in but I would pull the old packings out most of the time and replace both. [could take 3 but your diagram shows 2.]
if you need me I will be here.
spanner wrench. just have your people build it like the top picture with the nubs out but it would probably be easier to build like the bottom picture, just have the nubs stick out like the top picture
http://www.usatoolwarehouse.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/arm-34-101.gif
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/dr350_images/shock_wrench_1.jpg
if you need me I will be here. don't worry about your knowledge on pumps I have more of a greasy thumb than a green one.
Fantastic advice, thanks in a million!
I will look into this with my foreman, I think I know where I get find the packings, if not I will contact the maker in Japan.
Once we get down to performing this operation on the pump I will post a specific update. Any questions, I will contact you. :bananas_b
beam2050
09-30-2018, 10:08 AM
a few things I failed to mention; then I will shut up :ha:
I put this at the major part of your air leak.
your spanner wrench; put your nubs at a full 180 degrees on your gland nut. in other words on both sides of your gland nut. and then I would add a third [for strength and stability] on the bottom or [better put] in the middle at 90 degrees. make it to resemble a ladle.
also with your pulley configuration; I would definitely run at the rpm you have been running it at.
louis14
10-23-2018, 03:21 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=64010 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=64010&ppuser=26930)
Just under five months in the ground and all is well. The GM are still shooting up, deleafing to three leaves has been steadily maintained and will now cease on the stems that have reached six feet as these are all first year mats. On second year plants in older fields, we continue deleafing to eight feet, aiming for an ideal eight to nine leaves at flowering.
The plants on the inside are growing the best, those on the outside of this rectangular field are all smaller in height by at least a foot. A kind of mild krummholz effect that can be clearly noted in this HD configuration. We have one more field already planted and another on the way as we approach the end of the rainy season. It will be interesting to compare the growth performance taking into account the transplanting date.
beam2050
10-23-2018, 09:45 AM
great pic! love the view.
louis14
10-23-2018, 09:53 AM
Cheers. From another angle. That stem on the right is over six feet tall.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=64016&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=64016&ppuser=26930)
Tytaylor77
10-26-2018, 08:06 AM
Perfect spacing! Very similar to my spacing! Great job!
louis14
11-02-2018, 10:19 AM
A third HD field was finished today. 850 GM planted on 1000 m2. All of them issued from our own macro-propagation beds then nursed in our hardening tent.
A beautiful sight once the irrigation is turned on. The rainy season seems over and the sky is now intensely blue.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=64055&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=64055&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=64056&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=64056&ppuser=26930)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=64057&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=64057&ppuser=26930)
imclumbi
11-02-2018, 11:48 AM
Beautiful! Thank for posting these amazing pictures
beam2050
11-02-2018, 11:58 AM
all right free bananas for everybody.!
kind of late in the year your not worried about winter? I know you can get some cold weather.
louis14
11-02-2018, 12:26 PM
all right free bananas for everybody.!
kind of late in the year your not worried about winter? I know you can get some cold weather.
Quite right, it is of course always a small risk. That field is however less exposed from the northwesterly wind which can occasionally be cold as it passes over a nearby mountain. We had some leaf burn last year, in a more exposed field, but the plants recovered quickly.
beam2050
11-02-2018, 01:05 PM
Quite right, it is of course always a small risk. That field is however less exposed from the northwesterly wind which can occasionally be cold as it passes over a nearby mountain. We had some leaf burn last year, in a more exposed field, but the plants recovered quickly.
I hope for a decent winter for you. yes in your case production is everything, got to get them in the ground and growing as fast as you can. katie bar the door.
louis14
12-16-2018, 08:26 PM
Fruiting has begun, the pups were dug up mid march, spent two and a half months in the tent, then six and a half in the HD field. Nine months after separation, they are flowering. :drum:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=64201&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=64201&ppuser=26930)
HMelendez
12-17-2018, 05:49 AM
Congrats Louis!....Job well done!....
:2723::bananarow::2723:
Tytaylor77
12-19-2018, 01:25 AM
Amazing job Louis! I hope you get top price for those amazing GM nanners!
Akula
12-23-2018, 12:58 AM
Louis that bunch doesn't look particularly big. Is that the size you were expecting per plant?
I guess you would sacrifice some bunch size but have two to three times as many plants so overall yield per acre/hectare would be higher than traditional spacing.
louis14
12-23-2018, 06:11 AM
Hi Akula
This bunch size of GM is our normal for a first year mat on our soil. Three to five hands is usual. Then second year we can get six to eight. Each hands will weigh 3-5kg whatever the age of the mat. I do not have any third year GM mats yet. Next may we should start to see what they can give.
I have two older GM fields with standard 2m spacing and right now they look bare, and the bunches are getting burned by the strong low winter sun from lack of shade. I remain very happy with the HD fields of GM, as they are, with two more fields nicely on the way.
Akula
12-23-2018, 10:10 AM
I had the pic you posted in the "what did you harvest thread" in my mind when I saw the photo above and made the comment:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63592&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63592&ppuser=26930)
Upon a closer look the bunch has been dehanded and the hands sort of piled up to look like massive bunches.
Thought you had gone from 12+ hands to 4-5. Haha.
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