View Full Version : Foliar Spray Mixes for Bananas
edwmax
08-01-2018, 09:46 AM
Do you use Foliar Spray for your Bananas, if so please give you mix formulation. ... If you are using a base fertilizer products, please give links to those so the label can be viewed.
Next question, have you experienced leaf burn while using your spray? If so what concentration was the spray?
I've been using Miracle Grow (24,8,16) mixed per directions for my bananas without any problems. I know there has been comments that Miracle grow killed other user's Bananas, but I haven't seen that if the directions were followed.
For large plants (> 3ft & more than 5 leaves):
Miracle Grow @ 1 Tablespoon/gal => 14.3 grams / gal. which gives in solution, 3.77 g/L (.377% solution). This is NPK of .09-.03-.06 mixed solution. (I'll have to weight a tablespoon of Miracle Grow, but for here I just used the 14.3 g standard weight of a Ts).
This is a very low concentration of NPK. Some foliar spray studies appear to have used N & K from 1% to 3% concentration and did not report any leaf burn. ... Looking at some manufacture products for foliar spray on Bananas their N & K varies from .75% to 1.25% when mixer per their directions.
So my problem/question is what concentration of N will produce leaf burn on Bananas?
My next foliar mix for the Bananas will be increased to a 4.5% concentration (170.55g/gal) of Miracle Grow. This will provide NPK of 1.09-.36-.72. ... The potassium (K) can easily be increased by adding MOP or SOP to the mix.
Botanical_Bryce
08-01-2018, 11:42 AM
Been using Root Magic from naturallandscapesolutions.com for years and love it. The product is great and does wonders but the company is hard to deal with so I am searching other options.
edwmax
08-01-2018, 12:26 PM
Just looking at other products specially formulated for spraying Bananas, I realized Miracle Grow could easily be mixed to a concentration needed for mature Banana plants. Nitrogen & potassium can easily added to straighten the spray mix with urea or nitrate fertilizers and SOP or MOP. And, it is commonly available at Garden Centers.
In many locations, ground conditions are such that as much as 65% soil applied fertilizer is lost to leching. Thus, fertilizer must be applied at 155% to compensate for the lost. Foliar spray can reduce this excess need for fertilizer and the over all amount used.
When a Banana plant shoots, the nutrient uptake by the roots greatly reduces. This is why the big plantations stops all ground applications to the plant. It has been shown that foliar application 2% to 3% SOP after shooting increase bunch yield weight, and shorten the time to harvest.
Anyway for now my large Banana patch has stayed very wet this summer. Most of the plants are growing much slower than normal. I've had 7 1/2" of rain this past month and today it hasn't stopped since midnight. I need to foliar spray the plants to increase their size for the coming winter.
Juicy Bananas
08-01-2018, 12:26 PM
We make a FPJ with Crotaleria that works really well. Sugar and plant material is not only safe but easy to make. Use banana or other fruit for a flowering FPJ.
Good luck.
edwmax
08-01-2018, 12:31 PM
Been using Root Magic from naturallandscapesolutions.com for years and love it. The product is great and does wonders but the company is hard to deal with so I am searching other options.
Was that applied as a foliar spray or ground drench? The fish emulsions and yelp are available in liquid and can be easily added to foliar sprays.
Botanical_Bryce
08-01-2018, 02:05 PM
It's an either or. I use it foliar.
edwmax
08-01-2018, 02:39 PM
It's an either or. I use it foliar.
Hummm ... there is no info on the NPK of the product. Info state it is a soil Amendment / Fertilizer enhancement and used along with or after the granular application of fertilizer. ... So this product has no measurable amount of N.
Botanical_Bryce
08-01-2018, 03:31 PM
You are catching on to some of the problems with the company. They can be very unclear. They have different formulations but the website doesn't express that. The formulation I have been using is added nitrogen, suspended leonardite, and kelp. The formulation you are seeing is probably the leonardite only version.
Botanical_Bryce
08-01-2018, 03:34 PM
The people that I get it through is having a hard time getting the sales rep to follow through and the website keeps getting worse. I love the products and wish a more organised person would buy them out and run the company accordingly.
edwmax
08-01-2018, 03:37 PM
You are catching on to some of the problems with the company. They can be very unclear. They have different formulations but the website doesn't express that. The formulation I have been using is added nitrogen, suspended leonardite, and kelp. The formulation you are seeing is probably the leonardite only version.
They were custom blending the Root Magic for you. What was the NPK or N% and what was you mix ratio for the spray?
Botanical_Bryce
08-01-2018, 04:18 PM
I used my last jug about a couple months ago but I think the nitrogen was 4. It wasn't mixed for me it was at the retailer mixed that way. I wanted more but the retailer said the company was becoming unresponsive and when I called the rep he had no idea what I was talking about. Massive miscommunication. Only reason I was using it was because a customer of mine was using it on bushes with huge success. That is why I started. Too much confusion and I probably make it worse.
edwmax
08-01-2018, 05:45 PM
The Bio Gen products is the only thing they list with Nitrogen: 16-4-8; 15-0-15; & 10-8-8. So at most N would .2% per their directions using 1.6 oz per gal of water.
Botanical_Bryce
08-01-2018, 07:18 PM
The stuff is on the shelves at our local organics and pest control retailer. I know they do custom mixes but not for me. Most of what is on the website does not reflect what is in the store. Poorly run disorganized company needing new owners.
edwmax
08-01-2018, 08:01 PM
Miracle Grow looks to be a good base product for spray for now. I'm trying to determine the maximum concentration of N for Bananas.
edwmax
08-02-2018, 02:32 PM
Last night I found a study/thesis paper on foliar spray of bananas. The field trials were done 1993 to 1995. Two parts of the study were varying concentration of NPK fertilizer being 19-19-19 and comparing different fertilizer blends.
reference: http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/30/050/30050959.pdf
Section 4.4 : Nursery experiment 2: tested the effects of 19-19-19 fertilizer at concentrations of 0 g/L (control); 20g/L; 40 g/L; and 80 g/L. The spray was applied at 30 days intervals beginning 30 days after planting to the field (5 applications). The results indicated plants receiving 20 g/L spray perform the best and diminishing performance at 40 g/L & 80 g/L. The nitrogen concentration for each spray was .38% ; .76%; and 1.52%
Section4.3: Nursery Experiment 1: Tested the effects of different strength NPK fertilizers blends 0-0-0 (control); 19-19-19; 12-12-36; 15-5-30; 19-6-20. These were applied at a concentration of 20 g/L and sprayed at 30-day intervals (5 times). The result indicated 19-19-19, in most measurements, out preformed the other blends although not by much and 10-6-20 only by a negligible amount. The nitrogen spray concentration of each blend was .38% (NPK 19-19-19 & 19-6-20); .24% (NPK 12-12-36); .30% (NPK 15-5-30). The potassium concentration of each blend was .38% (NPK 19-19-19); .72% (NPK 12-12-36); .60 % (NPK 15-5-30); and .40% (NPK 19-6-20).
From the Nursery Experiment 2, it appears the optimum N concentration is between .38% & .76%. I’ll try/use .5%. … From the Nursery Experiment 1, even tho potassium increased in other fertilizer blends, the 19-19-19 show better vegetative growth with only .38% potassium.
For now … I think a foliar spray of .5% nitrogen and .4% potassium concentrations to be applied during the vegetative growth (before shooting). Spraying every 2 weeks basically double the amount of fertilizer applied in above paper. Quantity applied can be varied as needed by reducing or increasing spraying.
Spray after shooting will be determined later, likely maintain potassium and reduce the nitrogen.
The spray mix needed: 79.59 g of Miracle Grow, plus 4 g of SOP for NPK spray concentration of .5-.17-.40 in a 1 gallon mix.
I’m still interested in hearing from other users what foliar spray you use.
Richard
08-02-2018, 06:01 PM
If I wanted to foliar feed my bananas I'd choose Urea-Free 20-10-20 Orchid Food and mix at the rate of 1/4 teaspoon per gallon for applications every one or two weeks. Note that the best time to apply is in early morning during dew fall.
Yes, the dosage is small compared to soil drench application -- but in comparison to roots, so is the capacity of most plants to uptake nutrients through their leaves.
edwmax
08-05-2018, 08:06 AM
Update with my foliar spray.
This pic shows 2 plant that were severely yellow this past Monday. I spray it twice with Miracle Grow mixed per package direction (1 Tsp Tbsp per gallon). There was some improvement by Saturday morning. Saturday (yesterday) I sprayed the plant with the new mix (5.6 Xs stronger) of Miracle grow of 80g MG; 4g SOP;, 2 Tsp Tbsp Epson salt; and a pesticide. In a little more than 12 hours there has been 100% plus improvement of the color.
http://caironet.com/banana/GreenImpr-FoliarSpray-08052018.jpg
This next pic is a closeup of one leaf. On the far right is a steak of yellow. That was what the entire leaf looked like last Monday and shows how much the foliar spray (nitrogen) improved the color.
http://caironet.com/banana/CloseupLeaf-FoliarSpray-08052018.jpg
Next photo shows a leaf that lost all green color and was white. The 1st foliar spray (weak package direction mix) added a little green around the edges. The 2nd spray filled in about 25% of the green. The new mix foliar spray in just 12 hours filled in the leaf to about 75% green.
http://caironet.com/banana/WhiteLeaf-foliarSpray-08052018.jpg
The following photo is interesting because the sufficant (Ivory dish liquid) residue has caused the the dew to stick to the leaves this morning in small tiny beads.
http://caironet.com/banana/WaterBeadsOnLeaf-08052018.jpg
This was one of my immediate needs for a better foliar spray for bananas. And, for products to be 'off-the-shelf' and available locally.
8/7/2018 edited: I left these 2 pic out of the Large Patch. These 2 were taken Saturday morning 8/4/2018.
http://caironet.com/banana/LargePatch-08042018-pic1-101_0256[1].JPG
http://caironet.com/banana/LargePatch-08042018-pic2-101_0256[1].JPG
HMelendez
08-05-2018, 09:29 AM
This is awesome Max!....
So tell me if this is right or not!....I like simple things!.....LOL!....
New stronger Mix!.....
Miracle Grow (5.6 X stronger) 80g. = 5.64 Tsp. = (approx.) 5 1/2 Tsp.
Sulfate Of Potash (SOP) 4g. = (approx.) 1 Tsp.
Epson Salt 2 Tsp.
Plus Pesticide....
Thanks for sharing it!.....I'm going to try it!.....
:2723::bananarow::2723:
edwmax
08-05-2018, 10:14 AM
This is awesome Max!....
So tell me if this is right or not!....I like simple things!.....LOL!....
New stronger Mix!.....
Miracle Grow (5.6 X stronger) 80g. = 5.64 Tsp. = (approx.) 5 1/2 Tsp.
Sulfate Of Potash (SOP) 4g. = (approx.) 1 Tsp.
Epson Salt 2 Tsp.
Plus Pesticide....
Thanks for sharing it!.....I'm going to try it!.....
:2723::bananarow::2723:
The Tsp should be Tablespoons (Tbsp). Actually use kitchen scales to measure the ingredients. I don't like using spoons.
But let wait another day or so to make sure I haven't burned my plants. Right now I don't think that will happen. I would have seen something this morning.
edwmax
08-05-2018, 10:41 AM
Not all of the SOP will dissolve quickly. Some residue will be in the bottom. So put the SOP in hot/warm water and let sit for awhile (over night; longer the better).
I didn't have a lot of time for the first mix, so I put 12 g of SOP in hot water ( about a pint) for about 4 hrs. Then divided the water between 2 one gal mixes. ... At ambient temperatures SOP will dissolve to a concentration 111 g per liter. Then one can measure the ml needed for 4 g. 4/111= .036 or 3.6 ml. IF more than enough SOP is put into water for saturation.
beam2050
08-05-2018, 11:08 AM
bump llllllllllllllll book marking this one, keep us updated ed. thank you
edwmax
08-07-2018, 10:55 AM
Update:
This morning I mixed 80 g Miracle Grow; 56 g SOP**; 2 Tbsp Epson salt. Then sprayed the Large Nana Patch again. The plants, here, show some improvement with their color since being sprayed Saturday. All of these plants are putting out new cigar leaves; except the 7 plants transplanted to this field last week. ... I know this has been only 3 days, but these plants are still very yellowish, better than last Saturday tho.
Note, I did not see any signs of Nitrogen phototoxicity at the nitrogen concentration being sprayed. There are some leaves with brown edges, but 80% of the plants/leaves had no brown. The brown is from too much water in the ground.
** SOP Note: In this spray I increased the K concentration to 1.25% +/-. The NPK of this mix is .5-.17-.1.25 ... I dissolved 80 g SOP in boiling water for 2 min. Then let cool and sprained though a coffee filter. I had 30% of undissolved SOP (farm field grade) and a net of 56 g in solution. ... Increase SOP measurement by 1.42 to get target weight for solution +/-.
Beam ... hope you wern't booking against me!
beam2050
08-07-2018, 12:34 PM
Update:
Beam ... hope you wern't booking against me!
naw….. I wouldn't do that...…. :ha:
no, your talking AND doing pics. sometimes threads are just talk. I like to watch the progress. easier to see what yu are doing. got a namwa that stay's lite green might try it out myself! I am here to learn not just be an idiot, but dang I can have fun doing it :ha:
there are a lot of different folks here, and have many different ways of doing things. I have had some bum steers but also have had a lot of good information. a lot.
its easy to sit here and spew a lot of crap. and sometimes people think their right doing when doing it. or some people [like me] throw something out to see if what they are doing is right or could be done better.
but most people here come from Mississippi, SHOW ME. and this has been a very good thread so far in doing just THAT. keep up the great work there max. you not only talk but show your failures. don't get much better than that.
believe you are being watched on this one. :bananas_b
edwmax
08-07-2018, 02:39 PM
OK ... For Beam (is it Moon or Sun ??)
Over all photo of Large patch 8/7/2018. A 2nd foliar spray was applied this morning. Right now the temp is 88° F & the sun is hot. This good drying weather if we can get 4 or 5 days without rain. The ground squishes walking on it.
Can you see any difference compared to Saturday's pc?
http://caironet.com/Banana/LargePatch-FoliarSpray-08072018.jpg
Next picture of the Blue Java mat. The leaves are dropping a little bit, but this morning the leaves look so fresh that one would think they all had just unROLLED.
http://caironet.com/banana/BlueJava-foliarSpray-08072018.jpg
beam2050
08-07-2018, 02:59 PM
great pics.
star. moon. sun. flashlight.
edwmax
08-07-2018, 03:18 PM
Moon Walker Sunny Beam ... OK and when you are dancing, the girls ask about the flashlight on your pocket??????
edwmax
08-07-2018, 03:20 PM
oops ... I left out 2 pictures. I edited my post #17 to include those.
beam2050
08-07-2018, 03:26 PM
sure tell the difference.
that's not a flashlight in my pocket...………..its a candle. usually a birthday candle. easier to stick in the ground. flashlights require duck tape.
http://caironet.com/banana/SmallNanaPatch-08042018.jpg
yah it hurts when a flashlight falls out of a tree. also gets tricky when a person holds one and duz circles.
edwmax
08-07-2018, 05:02 PM
sure tell the difference.
... also gets tricky when a person holds one and duz circles.
Then shoot to the center!
Kanana
11-03-2018, 11:24 AM
Update:
This morning I mixed 80 g Miracle Grow; 56 g SOP**; 2 Tbsp Epson salt. Then sprayed the Large Nana Patch again. The plants, here, show some improvement with their color since being sprayed Saturday. All of these plants are putting out new cigar leaves; except the 7 plants transplanted to this field last week. ... I know this has been only 3 days, but these plants are still very yellowish, better than last Saturday tho.
Note, I did not see any signs of Nitrogen phototoxicity at the nitrogen concentration being sprayed. There are some leaves with brown edges, but 80% of the plants/leaves had no brown. The brown is from too much water in the ground.
** SOP Note: In this spray I increased the K concentration to 1.25% +/-. The NPK of this mix is .5-.17-.1.25 ... I dissolved 80 g SOP in boiling water for 2 min. Then let cool and sprained though a coffee filter. I had 30% of undissolved SOP (farm field grade) and a net of 56 g in solution. ... Increase SOP measurement by 1.42 to get target weight for solution +/-.
Beam ... hope you wern't booking against me!
edwmax, was this the final update on the mix strength? Also are you using a hose end sprayer with all the MG (powder or liquid) and SOP just dumped in dry? If it's pre diluted with water how many of gallons are you adding the chemicals to? How did the season turn out for you using this foliar spray and how often and are you still using it? Thanks.
sddarkman619
11-03-2018, 06:54 PM
I use Fruit Fuel + Epsom Salt + Caterpillar killer
they love it.
Kanana
11-04-2018, 02:02 PM
I use Fruit Fuel + Epsom Salt + Caterpillar killer
they love it.
I'll have to check out caterpillar killer. My one Hua Moa has holes in an unfurled cigar leaf. Hopefully it is not a banana weevil...
SDDarkman, do you just add them all together in a hose end sprayer? What number do you regulate it if so if you are using a dial-a-spay hose end sprayer like I use?
How often do you use it once a week? Once a month? Thanks.
sddarkman619
11-04-2018, 02:31 PM
I use a 2 gallon pump sprayer like this:
https://amzn.to/2PHukS2
I use captain Jacks dead bug juice:
https://amzn.to/2OpJo22
I get the 1 quart concentrate and add it to the sprayer.
I usually just spray this alone but I have added it to the foliar spray.
I tpyically use the juice whenever I see a leaf that has been munched on or caterpillar poop on a leaf.
It is also good for asian leaf miners which we have a problem with for citrus. this stuff works for a lot of different caterpillars or worms.
Kanana
11-04-2018, 03:56 PM
Thanks SDDarkman!
sddarkman619
11-04-2018, 04:47 PM
that bug juice works very well. one application will get them quickly and then last a couple week or month if you don't spray again and wash it off.
edwmax
06-28-2019, 08:30 AM
Continuing this thread ....
A couple of weeks ago I scored a 25 gal sprayer with elec. pump from Tractor Supply at 50% off ( That's $80 total Beam). Some one returned it claiming the tank leaked. An easy fix for a plastic tank But, after a week holding water there were no leaks. I did have to finger tighten all the hose & clamp connections.
I built a utility cart last Sunday & Monday mornings from from materials on hand and from the shop junk pile. it works great moving mulch and potted bananas around this week. This morning I mounted the 25 gal sprayer using tie-down straps, easy on ... easy off. Then tested it for vibration and wind drag around the yard. It's good to go.
Now to recalculate the foliar spray above for a 25 gal mix and get a battery for the pump.
http://www.caironet.com/banana/Sprayer-20190628_083416.JPG
beam2050
06-28-2019, 08:53 AM
:ha:
looking good max. go to a auto parts store and get some 12 gauge wire and a quick disconnect and run electricity from that craftsman lawnmower [hard to kill aint they] battery. keep that tank out of the sun and youll be in there for years.
edwmax
06-28-2019, 10:53 AM
I thought about doing the wire from the mower battery. The mower battery is already 3 years old and I didn't want the problem of the long wire getting tangled in brush or what ever when using. I bought a battery to set inside the trailer and ready to go on the mower when that one dies. ... Thanks for the suggestion tho.
I'll get the foliar mix for 10 gal ready this afternoon and spray it tomorrow morning early.
sddarkman619
06-28-2019, 11:46 AM
Yeah...that wind drag will really slow you down!
:ha:
Continuing this thread ....
Then tested it for vibration and wind drag around the yard. It's good to go.
Now to recalculate the foliar spray above for a 25 gal mix and get a battery for the pump.
http://www.caironet.com/banana/Sprayer-20190628_083416.JPG
edwmax
06-28-2019, 11:49 AM
....:ha: .... :woohoonaner: ...
edwmax
06-28-2019, 06:44 PM
I got 800 g of Miracle Grow dissolved in 1 gal. of water; and 1000 g of SOP in about 2 gal of hot water. It feels like it has all dissolved. I get a weight on the dregs tomorrow when I filter the sop I'm shooting for a final 10 gal NPK mix of .5%-.17%-1.5%.
Mixing will only take a few minutes in the morning. Then feed the Nanas.
edwmax
06-29-2019, 09:52 AM
I just finished foliar spraying my Bananas. It didn't take very long to do and sure as hell beats toting a hand sprayer. .... I have about 6 gal of the mix left, enough to spray again next week.
The Miracle Gro has some dregs left in the bottom of the 1 gal milk jug. But not a lot out of the 800 g.
The SOP was near 100% dissolved in the hot water. I had about 18 g of dregs out of the 1000g. So I over shot the 800g I needed for the mix; but that's not a problem.
I added 1 cup + 4 Tblsp of Epson (2 Tblsp / gal) salt and about 2 1/2 oz of ivory dish soap. This made about 10 gal of mix. I use 2 buckets (5.5/6 gal each) just filled them up and poured in the tank.
There's no pictures. So just picture dripping banana leaves and you got it.
PiaJensen
10-26-2019, 07:21 AM
Last year I bought Wuxal Calcibor though I never used it since the soil was well composted and wormy. Today, 26 Oct, 2019 I used it on the two pups I transplanted yesterday. I eyeballed the mix. Will update with pics as time goes on.
The pups this morning, looking a little yellow Banana Gallery - Foliar Fed 26 Oct 2019 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=65498&cat=500&ppuser=31161)
Picture of the nutrient analysis Banana Gallery - Foliar Feeding 26 Oct 2019 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=65497&cat=500&ppuser=31161)
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