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louis14
06-30-2018, 01:57 AM
Hello to all
I would like to discuss possible techniques for forcing our Kluai Namwa to grow faster. Our climate conditions here in Thailand are ideal and Namwa is a local variety that will survive the dry season without irrigation and still bear quite nicely sized bunches. Of course when watered and properly fed, they grow stronger and can bear beautiful and heavy bunches but taking a good 18 months minimum from transplant to harvest.
Because of its capacity to survive drought, I believe Namwa has a slower metabolism than for instance K. Hom (GM).
We currently deleaf the younger pstems quite heavily, hoping this will push them to grow new leaves faster. It's the rainy season and they do grow well. I was wondering if anyone has any experience in forcing Namwa to reach maturity in the fastest time possible. We of course give all our bananas a good program of NPK and complements throughout the rainy season and irrigate the rest of the time. We don't feed them during the dormant period which tends to be November till March.:waving:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63220&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63220&ppuser=26930)

aruzinsky
06-30-2018, 09:09 AM
In your picture, the leaves look chlorotic which suggests a nitrogen deficiency. Also, there seems to be mostly grass covering the ground around your banana plants. From what I have read (because I have no experience with this), you can kill two birds with one stone by planting a nitrogen fixing cover crop around the banana plants. See

Cover crop | ProMusa - the banana knowledge platform (http://www.promusa.org/Cover+crop)

louis14
06-30-2018, 11:15 AM
Thank you for this excellent suggestion. You are correct regarding the leaf colour as I do have an alkaline soil problem as the measured pH is around 8 in about half the plantation. This does affect nitrogen and other fertilizer intake. We are now compensating with folear feeding. I am attempting to get my hands on large volumes of granular sulphur for a long-term pH correction. I am still however still looking for a technique to speed up the variety's growth rate.

Akula
06-30-2018, 12:38 PM
I've got namwas so in for answers!

It may be just correlation but I have noticed that the quality and rate of growth picks up dramatically with the application of grass clippings from my lawn. I think the clippings help to manipulate the ph lower helping my bananas to absorb nutrients more efficiently.

I measured the ph level in my patch at the end of the season and it was in the 6 - 6.5 range but had risen to about 8.0 by early Spring using a Big Box ph measuring device. I had leaf deformities earlier this year due to over fertilization but they have cleared up in recent weeks.

My tallest namwas have greater than 11 feet of pstem.


My patch as of June 30, 2018:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63225&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63225&ppuser=26197)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63224&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63224&ppuser=26197)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63226&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63226)

aruzinsky
06-30-2018, 02:09 PM
Thank you for this excellent suggestion. You are correct regarding the leaf colour as I do have an alkaline soil problem as the measured pH is around 8 in about half the plantation. This does affect nitrogen and other fertilizer intake. We are now compensating with folear feeding. I am attempting to get my hands on large volumes of granular sulphur for a long-term pH correction. I am still however still looking for a technique to speed up the variety's growth rate.

I have some experience with foliar feeding. If I were you, I would try spraying just one plant with a solution of 3% urea, 1% ammonium sulfate and 0.05% Triton X-100. Triton X-100 is, in my experience, the best surfactant to prevent beading of spray solutions. It is available online, but, I don't know whether they ship to Thailand:

Triton X-100 Nonionic Surfactant Detergent | TALAS (http://www.talasonline.com/Triton-X-100)

If and when you get good results with foliar feeding, you can experiment by adding various plant growth regulators to the spray solution. The plant hormone, brassinolide, is supposed to benefit some plants under some stresses.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/44027541/Effects_of_brassinosteroids_on_the_plant20160323-19880-128lw4e.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1530387621&Signature=Pb3EDbEpoPX%2BbaN%2Fj7blMYcyPQY%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DEffects_of_brassinosteroids_o n_the_plant.pdf

Note:
"Extreme temperatures (7 and 34 C) increased stress symptoms,
i.e. necrotic areas on the leaves of bananas. However, in plants
treated with a trihydroxylated spirotane analogue of BR the effects
of thermal stress were significantly reduced. Cool temperature
affected leaf emergence with a significant reduction in their
number, but application of BR analogue had marked positive effect.
Plant height was also significantly reduced by both temperature
extremes, whereas the application of BR analogue was effective
only in plants exposed to the warmer temperature [25]."

https://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/seta/2004/01/22/stories/2004012200341700.htm

Brassinolide can be bought from Ebay stores:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=brassinolide&ul_noapp=true

jmc96
06-30-2018, 06:03 PM
I have a different theory in removing the young leaves.
Leaves are the power house of the plant, they are what nourishes, feeds and pushes the plant on. by removing a leaf you are removing like a piston in a car engine. I'd suggest, with a few trial plants, not removing any leaf at all and compare side by side growth to the ones you do remove.
Cheers from Australia.

louis14
06-30-2018, 07:16 PM
I have a different theory in removing the young leaves.
Leaves are the power house of the plant, they are what nourishes, feeds and pushes the plant on. by removing a leaf you are removing like a piston in a car engine. I'd suggest, with a few trial plants, not removing any leaf at all and compare side by side growth to the ones you do remove.
Cheers from Australia.

Thanks for the suggestion
Actually in the test we started yesterday, we are removing more older leaves than usual. Previously we would always leave five to seven leaves. This time, as a test, we left only the three youngest leaves on plants shorter than average. Seeing how much energy there is in a corm, I don't think a lower rate of photosynthesis will affect the plant. However the phytohormonal response triggered by the stress might push the plant to grow more leaves in response, thus increasing its height. I know this works extremely well for palm trees, I am interested to see how it works out for Namwa

louis14
06-30-2018, 07:20 PM
I've got namwas so in for answers!

It may be just correlation but I have noticed that the quality and rate of growth picks up dramatically with the application of grass clippings from my lawn. I think the clippings help to manipulate the ph lower helping my bananas to absorb nutrients more efficiently.

I measured the ph level in my patch at the end of the season and it was in the 6 - 6.5 range but had risen to about 8.0 by early Spring using a Big Box ph measuring device. I had leaf deformities earlier this year due to over fertilization but they have cleared up in recent weeks.

My tallest namwas have greater than 11 feet of pstem.


My patch as of June 30, 2018:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63225&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63225&ppuser=26197)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63224&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63224&ppuser=26197)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63226&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63226)

Hi Akula,
Our tallest Namwa, those in favorible parts of the plantation are fifteen feet tall, with a stem diameter around a foot and a half near the base

BTW: Nice pool 😎

louis14
06-30-2018, 07:29 PM
I have some experience with foliar feeding. If I were you, I would try spraying just one plant with a solution of 3% urea, 1% ammonium sulfate and 0.05% Triton X-100. Triton X-100 is, in my experience, the best surfactant to prevent beading of spray solutions. It is available online, but, I don't know whether they ship to Thailand:

Triton X-100 Nonionic Surfactant Detergent | TALAS (http://www.talasonline.com/Triton-X-100)

If and when you get good results with foliar feeding, you can experiment by adding various plant growth regulators to the spray solution. The plant hormone, brassinolide, is supposed to benefit some plants under some stresses.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/44027541/Effects_of_brassinosteroids_on_the_plant20160323-19880-128lw4e.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1530387621&Signature=Pb3EDbEpoPX%2BbaN%2Fj7blMYcyPQY%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DEffects_of_brassinosteroids_o n_the_plant.pdf

Note:
"Extreme temperatures (7 and 34 C) increased stress symptoms,
i.e. necrotic areas on the leaves of bananas. However, in plants
treated with a trihydroxylated spirotane analogue of BR the effects
of thermal stress were significantly reduced. Cool temperature
affected leaf emergence with a significant reduction in their
number, but application of BR analogue had marked positive effect.
Plant height was also significantly reduced by both temperature
extremes, whereas the application of BR analogue was effective
only in plants exposed to the warmer temperature [25]."

https://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/seta/2004/01/22/stories/2004012200341700.htm

Brassinolide can be bought from Ebay stores:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=brassinolide&ul_noapp=true

Thanks for the surfactant suggestion.

We actually are planning the next folear feed for this coming week with the following.
20-20-20 fertilizer
Manganese sulfate
A cocktail of TEs , Zinc, Boron and calcium

We will add a surfactant as per your suggestion

Ten acres to spray :08:

Akula
06-30-2018, 07:53 PM
Hi Akula,
Our tallest Namwa, those in favorible parts of the plantation are fifteen feet tall, with a stem diameter around a foot and a half near the base

BTW: Nice pool 😎

Fifteen feet! Wow! Hopefully mine are runt 12-13 footers! I'm getting tired of the waiting game. Haha.

aruzinsky
06-30-2018, 08:58 PM
Thanks for the surfactant suggestion.

We actually are planning the next folear feed for this coming week with the following.
20-20-20 fertilizer
Manganese sulfate
A cocktail of TEs , Zinc, Boron and calcium

We will add a surfactant as per your suggestion

Ten acres to spray :08:

I forgot to mention that the best time to spray is just before sunset. The second best is right after sunrise.

Have you done a leaf analysis?

Calcium does not travel down the phloem and forms an insoluble precipitate with sulfates that might clog your sprayer.

louis14
07-06-2018, 07:14 PM
I forgot to mention that the best time to spray is just before sunset. The second best is right after sunrise.

Have you done a leaf analysis?

Calcium does not travel down the phloem and forms an insoluble precipitate with sulfates that might clog your sprayer.

Yes, thanks, we always spray in the morning. The additives cocktail is in an liquid form so no blocking there, also, we spray with a tractor and a powerful setup as it is a rather large plantation.
Unfortunately, leaf analysis is not available anywhere near our area, basically, for this geographical area, everything we are doing is quite experimental. The locals only know Longan and Mango, everything, every supply depot, are angled on those two or on Rice, Onions and Garlic.
We are doing better and better however, very thankful for the wonderful and enthusiastic knowledge sharing available on this forum
:nanadrink:

Tytaylor77
07-08-2018, 02:44 AM
Techniques I use for faster growth include:
Proper watering and mulch!
Keep pups to 0-1 on fruiters.
Proper NPK and I apply every 2 weeks!
After flowering I remove male bud and deflower all female end flowers!
Finally I prune the bottom 1-3 hands depending on the bunch.

Great job Louis!
You will inspire many people in your area!
Your doing a great job man!

louis14
07-08-2018, 02:55 AM
Techniques I use for faster growth include:
Proper watering and mulch!
Keep pups to 0-1 on fruiters.
Proper NPK and I apply every 2 weeks!
After flowering I remove male bud and deflower all female end flowers!
Finally I prune the bottom 1-3 hands depending on the bunch.

Great job Louis!
You will inspire many people in your area!
Your doing a great job man!

Hey Ty, cheers!
We are doing all that, except for the mulching. I would like to use rice straw that is available here but in very short supply and booked years ahead (for real) as they use it for onions and garlic.
We need to get a mulching implement for the tractor and make our own, that would be the best. But them machines aren't cheap, even here.
Yesterday we deleafed a good 400 five footers down to the three/four newest leaves as my first tests are looking good. All to push that slow metabolism into higher speed. It's raining some, we are feeding them plenty. I will take some photos tomorrow and report back after a few weeks on how they are progressing. :waving:

louis14
07-16-2018, 11:59 PM
Update
We are definitely doubling down on forcing growth through severe deleafing. The results of the first three weeks are clearly visible as the space between the frond bases has suddenly expanded even though we have been going through a dry spell rainwise, and this for about five weeks now.
We now deleaf young Namwa down to three leaves every week, counting even rolled leaves. We will stop basically once they get out of reach. Early pupping also seems to be enhanced by this treatment which is fine as we let the Namwa fields multiply as much as they want. Plants are looking good, stems are clean and healthy.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63287&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63287&ppuser=26930)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63286&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63286&ppuser=26930)

beam2050
07-17-2018, 07:42 PM
thank you for this post. keep it up. all of us backyard farmers can use this info. I have often wondered if it would speed things up. think I read a post where somebody said it wouldn't. thought maybe it could heat up the plant and dry the ground out with less shade.

what do you do with the dut off leaves, leave them lay for compost and hold compost?

louis14
07-17-2018, 07:52 PM
thank you for this post. keep it up. all of us backyard farmers can use this info. I have often wondered if it would speed things up. think I read a post where somebody said it wouldn't. thought maybe it could heat up the plant and dry the ground out with less shade.

what do you do with the dut off leaves, leave them lay for compost and hold compost?

Thanks for your support! We are learning more every day, often through trial and error. We can afford errors; they are the cost of improving our knowledge.

The dead leaves are either chopped up when we rotoblade the undergrowth, or picked up and put on the compost heap.

I need a large mulcher attachment for the tractor, one that can take in whole Namwa adult stems.We have to wait however as this cost cannot be justified right yet.
:bananas_b

louis14
07-18-2018, 02:02 AM
The sun came out this morning following a wonderful night of rain. It made for a nice photo of these young Namwa, as they are right now

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63289&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63289&ppuser=26930)

beam2050
07-18-2018, 05:59 AM
The sun came out this morning following a wonderful night of rain. It made for a nice photo of these young Namwa, as they are right now

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63289&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63289&ppuser=26930)

I am sorry but I have another question for you;

I have around 10 namwa mats going at this time. my property is pretty much the same soil [golden sand] front to back and near 20 ft. down.

question is; you have some small plants here and there that do not seem to be keeping up. you do something to kick them in the pants?

I have a couple doing the same thing, not moving. look healthy but not moving. come from pots.

beautiful scene. looks like a wonderful place to live. all your pics say that.

edwmax
07-18-2018, 06:10 AM
...


...


what do you do with the dut off leaves, leave them lay for compost and hold compost?


The 'dut off leaves' contain a good bit of the fertilizer being applied to the ground & plant. ... So certainly mulch and reuse! ... As long as there are no disease.



View the leave as a 'concentrater'. In the wild, over time, this is how the plant builds up the (poor) soil with the nutrients & minerals it needs. In time you should be able to reduce the amount of fertilizer being applied some.

louis14
07-18-2018, 06:24 AM
I am sorry but I have another question for you;

I have around 10 namwa mats going at this time. my property is pretty much the same soil [golden sand] front to back and near 20 ft. down.

question is; you have some small plants here and there that do not seem to be keeping up. you do something to kick them in the pants?

I have a couple doing the same thing, not moving. look healthy but not moving. come from pots.

beautiful scene. looks like a wonderful place to live. all your pics say that.

Small plants here and there! Runts!

Absolutely! I get annoyed with them, I blaim this on the quality of the stock. Within a population, there are giants and midgets. Multiplying from your own stock, choosing only sword suckers from strong plants will surely help.
In the field in question, we bought the suckers from another plantation, who had difficulty in supplying the numbers we wanted and got help from other colleagues. Who knows if we did not get water suckers in the lot? Once chopped short for transport, it is hard to tell.
However, the severe deleafing during the growth period of the rainy season seems to be waking them up. Taking away old leaves, spotted, yellowing, even if the plant is small forces them to grow and things are looking better in one corner of that field, much better than they looked a month ago.They basically grow up or die away.
This field was transplanted in mid October, now nine months old. Namwa are slow! I can have GM fruiting at nine months.
After a while I get annoyed and go around killing these runts, then we replace them with new hopefully stronger transplants so as not to waste an irrigation position.
Other factors including soil quality could be in play here. Interaction from certain types of weeds or pests is also possible. The water factor is not in play as irrigation is centrally distributed and equal for all in this field. Fertilizer is equal for all.

beam2050
07-18-2018, 06:50 AM
thank you. figures, in your industry why wait on them. replace them.

in my case the 2 were injured in pots. not knowing exactly where in the yard I wanted to plant them they blew over and I did not notice them until after they grew crooked. they did not get to any size before the winter. [your winters are just a bit milder than mine.]

thank you again.

louis14
07-19-2018, 09:02 PM
thank you. figures, in your industry why wait on them. replace them.

in my case the 2 were injured in pots. not knowing exactly where in the yard I wanted to plant them they blew over and I did not notice them until after they grew crooked. they did not get to any size before the winter. [your winters are just a bit milder than mine.]

thank you again.

I find that leaving banana plants in standard 8 inch bags or similar size pots for too long will end up stunting their growth and they will never fully develop.
We have thousands of plantlets in our hardening tent, but comes a moment, they need to get into the ground. Sometimes we have to wait and let them reach three/four feet in size as the soil in the fields is too dry from lack of rain but I do not like it and we endeavour to plant them even if we have to wet the soil to achieve this.
I prefer to plant them at a size of two feet. All fresh and green, with a nice and clean green stem.

In this photo, our staff are moving GM at their maximum size for optimum growth. Thank goodness it is raining right now, we could not wait any longer

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63292&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63292&ppuser=26930)

louis14
08-16-2018, 09:18 AM
To my reelection, there was no science given. It was just a statement in reference to forced dwarfism. ... I think it was PR-Giants, that made the comment. May be he will see this post and comment.

I'll look later for the original post.

Just think about it. A Plant only grow so many leaves before flowering. So if the pstem is chopped when reaching about 75% height and before the plant starts stacking leaves, it still has time to grow those leaves before flowering. But not be able to add much height. ... You are de-leafing the plant anyway, so remove the upper pstem/leaves and allow the new leaves to grow at a short height.

Anyway, your in a very good position to try this without any additional cost. The info gained would/could be useful with other varieties.

We permanently top off hundreds of pups that are becoming too big as it is a technique for delaying flowering and maintaining the plant in its vegetative development phase.
I therefore believe that topping off adult plants, for instance stems of Namwa that have reached a height of three meters ++ will only delay flowering and restart the vegetative phase. Which would be the contrary of the result procured.
I also think it is a risky technique as botanical science does not yet really know what actually induces flowering in a herb, under normal non stressful conditions. There would be a risk of cutting the true stem with its flowering bud still in the central canal of the pstem, thus forcing back the stem into the leaf and stem forming stage or losing apical dominance altogether and just promoting the growth of pups through the proven technique of decapitation.

meizzwang
08-16-2018, 01:55 PM
These points have already been mentioned, but here's some more insight:
1) deleafing the lower leaves on younger, smaller plants when relying on rain for water might actually increase the growth rate only because more water will get into the root zone. Since those lower leaves are older, they're not as active in capturing PAR, so it might not negatively affect the plants.
2) Chopping off newer leaves may cost you on yield.
2) Getting the plants to produce as many leaves as possible in the quickest way possible is likely the way to induce flowering the quickest.
3) That pH issue has to be resolved if you want maximum growth. Cutting the grass was a good move, but it may not be enough to lower the pH significantly.
4) while adding significant organic matter to the soil can initially be costly and labor intensive (probably not an issue in Thailand though), fruit quality may increase, so you can possibly demand a higher price per pound on the harvest. It'll also probably buffer the soil's pH for much longer periods of time compared to sulfur, which likely requires multiple applications.

One test that I'd like to see is if having the ratio of nitrogen slightly lower than P and K on bananas. Higher nitrogen in other plants tends to delay flowering, while stressing N and increasing P and K induces flowering earlier. Timing of nitrogen stressing might also play a huge role: is it better to stress younger plants, and then increase N near the flowering stage, or vice versa? Or does it have no effect on flowering time?

louis14
08-16-2018, 09:19 PM
These points have already been mentioned, but here's some more insight:
1) deleafing the lower leaves on younger, smaller plants when relying on rain for water might actually increase the growth rate only because more water will get into the root zone. Since those lower leaves are older, they're not as active in capturing PAR, so it might not negatively affect the plants.
2) Chopping off newer leaves may cost you on yield.
2) Getting the plants to produce as many leaves as possible in the quickest way possible is likely the way to induce flowering the quickest.
3) That pH issue has to be resolved if you want maximum growth. Cutting the grass was a good move, but it may not be enough to lower the pH significantly.
4) while adding significant organic matter to the soil can initially be costly and labor intensive (probably not an issue in Thailand though), fruit quality may increase, so you can possibly demand a higher price per pound on the harvest. It'll also probably buffer the soil's pH for much longer periods of time compared to sulfur, which likely requires multiple applications.

One test that I'd like to see is if having the ratio of nitrogen slightly lower than P and K on bananas. Higher nitrogen in other plants tends to delay flowering, while stressing N and increasing P and K induces flowering earlier. Timing of nitrogen stressing might also play a huge role: is it better to stress younger plants, and then increase N near the flowering stage, or vice versa? Or does it have no effect on flowering time?

Many thanks for the clear and interesting points

The best Namwa in the plantation grow up to fifteen feet and grow quickly (well, for Namwa anyway). They also quickly push up pups that can rapidly reach similar size. These large plants give the largest bunches, up to twelve hands + in some cases, more to come as the mats increase in size and power. Plants in the same field (1000 plants in that field) that flower at a smaller size (but not at a younger age) give small and low value bunches with few hands and small fingers.
The heavy deleafing process involves not letting new plants in new fields fall asleep after transplant while other plants are shooting up to max size. Right now, this process is proving efficient in keeping these plants awake, pushing them to grow up, to grow new leaves, creating strong and healthy stems and larger and larger leaves. Of course, heavy deleafing will stop as soon as the stems reach a certain height, after that, the engine of the plant seems to be running at a good speed and off it goes without interference. I have always found that in any transplanted plant of any kind, there is a slow development until a strategic size and root network is achieved. After that, the plant will suddenly accelerate its growth rate.
Our process aims to ensure that these plants do not stay in this slow phase and become dormant, slowly degenerating through dwarfism.

What is really important in flowering for our Namwa is that they reach their maximum size first. It is of no interest to promote flowering if the plant is not large enough. Big plant = Big bunch and Small plant = Small bunch. They have to get big, They cannot be allowed to grow to half size or less.

The soil alkaline PH is an important problem in some areas of the plantation, we are still considering how to address it. Fortunately the problem only involves maybe 10% of the total acreage. Right now, we solve this issue with folear feeding but I know it is not a long term solution.

Oh! :bananas_b and labor is a problem actually, hard to find and quite costly and often unproductive. There is actually no unemployment here and nobody starves. If they need money for food or something, they can go into the wild and catch some fish or hunt some game, or pick some wild mushrooms, ant eggs, bamboo shoots and sell them on the side of the road. :08:

Akula
08-16-2018, 10:20 PM
I have always found that in any transplanted plant of any kind, there is a slow development until a strategic size and root network is achieved. After that, the plant will...:08:

I understand the benefit of the established corn and root system for the first generation however its unclear to me how the prior growth should be leveraged by following generations (second, third, fourth, etc.). The first generation (first pup produced by the original plant) will be directly tied to the original plant however what about the second generation? Should it be a pup from the first generation (i.e. directly tied to the 1st generation and through the 1st generation to the original corn) or a pup produced by the original corn in year 2?

I can select pups from either the original plant/corn or the first generation produced by the original plant.

Which pup is better to select and nurture for next year in order to leverage the prior corn and root growth?

Hope the above wasn't too confusing! I'm talking about maximizing the growth of my namwas. Thanks!

My biggest namwa is now greater than 13'. He looks like he has topped out and has been crowning. My gallery has a recent photo of the crown. He better pop a flower soon because we are running out of road!! Haha.

louis14
08-16-2018, 10:44 PM
I understand the benefit of the established corn and root system for the first generation however its unclear to me how the prior growth should be leveraged by following generations (second, third, fourth, etc.). The first generation (first pup produced by the original plant) will be directly tied to the original plant however what about the second generation? Should it be a pup from the first generation (i.e. directly tied to the 1st generation and through the 1st generation to the original corn) or a pup produced by the original corn in year 2?

I can select pups from either the original plant/corn or the first generation produced by the original plant.

Which pup is better to select and nurture for next year in order to leverage the prior corn and root growth?

Hope the above wasn't too confusing! I'm talking about maximizing the growth of my namwas. Thanks!

My biggest namwa is now greater than 13'. He looks like he has topped out and has been crowning. My gallery has a recent photo of the crown. He better pop a flower soon because we are running out of road!! Haha.

Here is what we do with our GM.
Once sword suckers (pups) start growing around the first pstem and once they have reached the minimum size of 50cm out of the ground we will dig them up, all except one, the workers have instructions to leave the largest of the pups alone.
That pup is left to grow.
Until the original pstem starts to flower, we continue to remove all other new pups that pop up, once the pups have reached 50cm size as we use them for transplanting.
Once the original pstem starts to flower, we will leave the strongest next to appear once more. At that time we have three pstems allowed on the mat
Once the first bunch is harvested and the original pstem is cut, we will still have two generations ready to replace, and the process is repeated again and again.
We do this to get larger bunches as the mat does not spend energy growing too many pstems to adulthood. Some farmers will top off the third pup to slow it down if it is growing too quickly.
You can of course apply this to Namwa.
Keep always the biggest and healthiest pup.

bananimal
08-17-2018, 08:47 AM
Over the last 18 years growing bananas in S Florida. I found that what is most important for fast maximum growth is a high potassium fertilizer. The one I use comes from Diamond R Fert Co. Proportions are 6-3-16.

Ph and other factors have not been as important.

Just harvested a nice bunch of FHIA 2 and the flavor is awesome. :08:

meizzwang
08-17-2018, 12:09 PM
Over the last 18 years growing bananas in S Florida. I found that what is most important for fast maximum growth is a high potassium fertilizer. The one I use comes from Diamond R Fert Co. Proportions are 6-3-16.

Ph and other factors have not been as important.

Just harvested a nice bunch of FHIA 2 and the flavor is awesome. :08:

Very true, On a small, hobby scale, pH and other minor factors don't matter. On a commercial scale, every detail counts, as it affects the bottom line.

louis14
08-31-2018, 10:24 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63536&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63536&ppuser=26930)

Six weeks have gone by, the Namwa have been trimmed down to the top three leaves every two weeks. Folear feeding every two weeks after deleafing. All growing nicely, strong stems, big leaves and looking good. Lots of pups too which is nice.

louis14
09-17-2018, 09:24 AM
We are still continuing regular deleafing of any Namwa plant under about 8 feet in stem size and this technique is proving very successful in not allowing plants to go dormant and stop growing. Most plants seem to go dormant when they start to grow the leaves in a fan shape at a sub standard size. This happens across the plantation without any discernable explanation. However, deleafing the fanned area is proving to create renewed rapid upwards growth by restarting the vegetative phase. Our objective being to grow the largest plants as possible as we notice a direct connection between plant total size and final bunch size and weight.
Here is a photo where you can clearly see how the vegetative growth phase has restarted after fanning leaves were cropped upwards, leaving only the most recent three leaves.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63651&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63651&ppuser=26930)