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mackmccaleb
05-17-2018, 07:30 PM
Late last summer I dug the pit for my banana circle. It was just after a tropical storm so I gathered up my neighbor's storm debris and piled it up as the first bottom layer of my mound, essentially creating a hugelkulter raised bed to plant into. I dug my pit approximately 10' across and 3' deep. I layered cardboard in the bottom of my pit and over the top of my raised beds, then watered thoroughly, mulched with pine straw and watered again. Through the fall and winter I let the bed rest while I filled the pit with any organic waste I could find in the neighborhood, mostly leaves, grass clippings and pine straw. I put roughly 900 gallons of mulch into the pit (estimated by about 30 bags of 30 gallon paper yard waste bags I picked up). In March, I planted. Into the top of the raised beds, I planted two Blue Java Ice Cream, one Ladyfinger, one Golden African, one Raja Puri and one Gran Nain. Next, I interplanted three fig trees, two mullberries, zucchini, mint, onions, basil, tomatoes, peppers, sweet potatoes, canna lillies and mexican sunflowers. In April, I found a local banana grower who had discarded several banana pups on the side of the road, so I picked the four best ones and added them to my circle. They're unknown, but maybe I can get help identifying them with some pictures. Has anyone tried growing bananas in a system like this? Please, ask me questions, let me know if you think I've made mistakes. Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated. Pictures to come in a following post. Ill take some current pics tomorrow and also any I can find of the process of planting. Looking forward to your critiques!

mackmccaleb
05-18-2018, 11:48 AM
https://youtu.be/NU2EO2gJRBIhere is a video walkthrough from today

mackmccaleb
05-18-2018, 01:32 PM
I'm not having any luck uploading pictures either to my post or my gallery. Maybe someone can help me out with that. Here's a link to my Google photos gallery https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOrcJvNDW2qpYW_FvUoqVABAxd3Nvm5osZnJlb6

SixtySix
05-18-2018, 03:15 PM
Welcome to Bananas!

That seems like an awful lot of competition for the bananas. You do realize they are going to be overhead and putting up plenty of pups by the time summer is in full swing, right?

What do your neighbors think?

mackmccaleb
05-18-2018, 05:37 PM
The competition, yes, I was wondering about that. Honestly I didn't expect the zukes to get so big so fast. I want the bananas to thrive, but I'm torn between nurturing them or a more Darwinian style gardening of survival of the fittest. I really hope they get overhead and form a canopy so I can interplant more shade tolerate plants. I plan to expand outward each fall in a new ring, dig out a pathway around the exterior, mound up new beds and fill the paths with mulch. Separating the new pups and transplanting into the new beds will be great to help me expand outwards.

The neighbors were confused at first, especially when they saw me picking up their garbage. Their curiosity about it has drawn them over to have a look, and once I explain a bit, they're really cool with it. In fact, it's actually building a feeling of community. I've been sharing my abundance of zucchinis, and my next door neighbor followed suit by sharing his plums with me and also the rest of the neighborhood. I really think having the banana circle has not only improved relationships between me and the neighbors, but also between the neighbors themselves. Unexpected but really positive result

SixtySix
05-19-2018, 06:42 AM
Yeah it's hard to fathom how big those plants are going to be when they have a full growing season under their belt. I live a couple zones north of you and during the six months my bananas thrive the pseudostems get as big as five gallon buckets. Not to mention the endless pups.

Em
05-20-2018, 12:01 AM
...I plan to expand outward each fall in a new ring, dig out a pathway around the exterior, mound up new beds and fill the paths with mulch. Separating the new pups and transplanting into the new beds will be great to help me expand outwards...

Hi, just quickly made an account here so I could add my two cents :)
Lovely circle planting! I'm liking the diversity - nothing wrong with survival of the fittest planting - you can always take away and mulch anything right in the middle that doesn't go quite right.

But yeah, I wanted say to perhaps hesitate on expanding the circle.
What you have is a managable size, mainly with regard to keeping the mulch pit filled. If it's not too unsightly for the neighbours, feel free to mulch until the mound comes about 1m above ground; the bananas will love it.

More water loving plants on the inner rim of mound, less water loveing on the outer - but seems you've already thought about that somewhat.

Taro likes the inner rim. Sweet potato may take over until it gets shaded out, but the diverse root space may slow it - I look forward to watching it's progression.

I digress - back the expanding the circle. Perhaps consider just creating another circle, and then another.... If there is a convenient downhill (even if mild) slope, think about how in heavy rains you can get one mulch pit to overflow into the next.

Can you divert a water source (kitchen water for example - if you use safe soaps - or a bit of the road, or a gutter from your roof) into one circle, that could overflow through the rest? (Assuming you go down the path of multiple circles)

Anyway, enough blather from me. A pleasure to see what you've been up to.

mackmccaleb
05-20-2018, 09:15 PM
Thanks for the comments! I have been thinking about passive water harvesting. I think some rainwater collection off the roof will be my best option, and I really like the idea of one circle overflowing into the next. Our community is about to trim up some common area trees, so I'm hoping to get my hands on the wood chips. More mulch! It's been a really fun experiment so far, having multiple circles will just be exponentially more fun

Richard
05-20-2018, 10:17 PM
:)... having multiple circles will just be exponentially more fun

Additively (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/additively).

In my opinion, banana circles are a fad started by online sellers. When you're ready to do some serious cultivation we're ready to help you along too. :)

Em
05-21-2018, 02:37 AM
In my opinion, banana circles are a fad started by online sellers. When you're ready to do some serious cultivation we're ready to help you along too. :)

ouch - hope there was at least a touch of sarcasm there :)
I certainly have no interest in selling anything and neither did those whom I learned from.
They can be remarkably low maintenance and high return, and allow for higher plantings per acre, if that's your thing.

Out of interest, what would you define as serious cultivation?
Hopefully I do not come off as antagonising - tricky to communicate tone in writing ;)

SixtySix
05-21-2018, 06:31 AM
Veering off topic, so hold on.

I heard "from a guy" this weekend that commercial suppliers of bananas in our area were no longer growing bananas, they have switched over to cannabis.

Anyways, back to your regularly schedule banana circle critique...

aruzinsky
05-21-2018, 10:31 AM
:)

Additively (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/additively).
...


No, because there are diminishing returns of fun as more banana circles are planted. Mathematically, fun increases monotonically with a monotonically decreasing derivative (or, since the number of banana circles, N, is discrete, difference).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotonic_function

Furthermore, it is sometimes theorized that there is an upper limit to happiness, in which case, the fun from planting more banana circles increases asymptotically to an asymptote at or below the upper limit for happiness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptote#Horizontal_asymptotes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-being_contributing_factors

One can imagine the upper limit for happiness being achieved in Heaven.

Akula
05-21-2018, 11:44 AM
That's pretty cool that you are starting off with five different types of bananas. I only have two types at this point (namwa and raja puri). Both have done well in my patch and survived this past winter with a bit of help. Hope to get my first bananas this year and find out if all the work and wait was worth it!

Looks like you put in a ton of work in your circle! Your patch will look really exotic by mid summer when the bananas plants achieve some height! Good job!

Richard
05-21-2018, 02:07 PM
... Out of interest, what would you define as serious cultivation? ...

Something with foresight for ease of maintenance.

http://www.bananas.org/f2/bananas-my-garden-46695-2.html#post299473

edwmax
05-21-2018, 03:51 PM
I'm not having any luck uploading pictures either to my post or my gallery. Maybe someone can help me out with that. Here's a link to my Google photos gallery https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOrcJvNDW2qpYW_FvUoqVABAxd3Nvm5osZnJlb6

This link doesn't work either.

What size are your files? The max size is 5200k.

Richard
05-21-2018, 06:59 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63078&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63078&ppuser=1558)

Em
05-21-2018, 11:29 PM
Something with foresight for ease of maintenance.
Thank you for the elaboration, though I'm still not certain I fully understand.
I saw your picture that followed indicating that diminishing root zone equates to higher maintenance. Can you explain why?

I suppose it comes down to what you look at as maintenance.
Granted in the circle that we are discussing in this thread, perhaps there will be some tricky to reach plants in the inside of the circle, at a later date.

The only regular input I can think of to bananas is water - assuming they have sufficient mulch and fertile soil for food.
A circle provides one location to mulch and water.
Once the mulch pit is filled, it is easy to add to it, though that would not be very often.
And if water is provided via a grey water overflow and/or rainwater overflow from the roof, there should be no hand-watering necessary, in part as the mulch retains the moisture.

To me this amounts to almost no maintenance.
Please though, if I am misunderstanding something, feel free to elaborate further.


No, because there are diminishing returns of fun as more banana circles are planted. Mathematically, fun increases monotonically with a monotonically decreasing derivative (or, since the number of banana circles, N, is discrete, difference)...
Haha :)
Though I believe you might be missing the possibility that the addition of multiple circles, all in a gravity-fed self-watering alignment, once implemented, can provide ever increasing abundance and joy (ok, the abundance would level out over time), while only requiring a linear input of extra mulch per circle (and a little guidance of pups around each circle).
And though a mathmetician might then conlcude that the joy would also flatten out due to a feeling of normalcy per-se, they are not perhaps considering beyond the confines of the system they're analysing.
As such, they are possibly forgetting that spreading that joy among loved ones, friends and neighbours, and even total strangers in the form of free bananas (because you have too much so easily), potentially further the ever increasing joy, until all involved explode in a fountain of cringeworthy positivity.

I may have missed the point (and certainly lack the mathematical terminology) but there's some truth in there, somewhere.


I heard "from a guy" this weekend...

:D Thanks for the tangent. Potential intercrop among the bananas perhaps - best of both worlds?
That, or banana infused cannabis...

Richard
05-22-2018, 12:19 AM
...I suppose it comes down to what you look at as maintenance.

I think it comes down to experience maintaining banana mats. Certainly experimenting with banana circles is likely to teach you a lot. I wish you all a bunch of fun!

Em
05-22-2018, 12:30 AM
I think it comes down to experience maintaining banana mats. Certainly experimenting with banana circles is likely to teach you a lot. I wish you all a bunch of fun!

Thanks Richard. Learning certainly is part of the game.

Again though, it depends on what you mean by maintenance.

If you don't have the time to explain here, perhaps you've already explained in another thread, in which case I'll happily read a linked page.

aruzinsky
05-22-2018, 09:29 AM
...
As such, they are possibly forgetting that spreading that joy among loved ones, friends and neighbours, and even total strangers in the form of free bananas (because you have too much so easily), potentially further the ever increasing joy, until all involved explode in a fountain of cringeworthy positivity.
...

Then, Banana Republics would be the happiest places on Earth, if only they would give away all of their bananas for free. And, the USA wouldn't have to put up with Guatemalan refugees.

beam2050
05-22-2018, 09:56 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63078&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63078&ppuser=1558)

I believe he means this by maintenance. and cultivation. dh= 15 ft. do= 18 ft..... I have a place in the backyard be perfect for this. namwa on the outside, kandarin in the middle?. thanks richard

Again though, it depends on what you mean by maintenance.

CraigSS
05-22-2018, 10:15 AM
Looks Great.
Two comments:
1- The Fig and Maple trees are too close together.
2- The mint will take over the area and get into your lawn in a few years.

Craig

mackmccaleb
05-22-2018, 11:37 AM
Thanks CraigSS!

1. I completely agree that the maple and fig are too close. I had two thoughts about that. Allow the maple to form a canopy layer and the fig be an understory (providing that the growth rates allow for that) or let them grow for a while, then remove whichever seems to be the weakest. The maple wasn't part of the original design, honestly I just stuck it in because it was free.

2. You're definitely right about the mint. I can see already that its growing far faster and sending out runners. I hadn't considered it getting into the yard, thanks for pointing that out. I wanted something with function to use as a ground cover, but in hindsight I think I would have been better to either leave out the mint or try to limit its growth by planting it in a container.

Richard
05-22-2018, 10:49 PM
... I have a place in the backyard be perfect for this. namwa on the outside ...

I like the idea of a homogeneous planting. As you know, corm locations will drift -- if not infiltrate nearby locations. Over time it will be hard to keep track of what is where. And it will no longer be a circle but one large plat -- a "banana disc" if you will.

beam2050
05-23-2018, 01:04 AM
I like the idea of a homogeneous planting. As you know, corm locations will drift -- if not infiltrate nearby locations. Over time it will be hard to keep track of what is where. And it will no longer be a circle but one large plat -- a "banana disc" if you will.

yes. I can see that. make a perfect circle and as time goes on it won't be, as pups grow and mother dies. but I am dealing with over an acre here and where I am thinking of doing it is in the backyard I call the back 40. we have been letting it go for many years hoping to get the natural plants for this area growing. basically trees. it has not been working out mainly because we are on a sand hill. so for the last couple of years I have been cleaning it out and putting some plants of sorts. well I have this one area, about 15 ft square. nothing around it but small black jacks. heck I am not to concerned about being perfect about it all anyways, as far as a circle goes. I have this kandarin pup which is about ready to dig up. I had been planning to put her there anyways. I will start with that and then give every thing space to do their thing. I think that that [circle] will be perfect for that spot. a change in the way I have been planting. thanks again for the good advice.

Em
05-23-2018, 06:14 AM
...Over time it will be hard to keep track of what is where. And it will no longer be a circle but one large plat -- a "banana disc" if you will.

Wouldn't the mulch pit prevent bananas growing over the centre?
A banana circle very specifically should have a roughly one metre deep pit in the centre, filled with mulch to around 1m above ground (maybe more).

I imagine then the task is to prevent the pups spreading out from the circle.
Is it relatively easy or difficult to transplant pups back onto the mounded circle?


I believe he means this by maintenance. and cultivation. dh= 15 ft. do= 18 ft..... I have a place in the backyard be perfect for this. namwa on the outside, kandarin in the middle?. thanks richard

I found the image to be unclear regarding maintenance. It states that because each banana plant has a shrinking root zone toward the centre of the circle, that planting in this fashion is high maintenance.
I was trying to get clarity on what kind of maintenance.

As I have touched on above, I am wondering if when people hear "banana circle" they think only of planting in a circle, where in fact it is the mulch pit that is the essential feature alowing for the circle to function.

Richard
05-23-2018, 09:44 AM
Wouldn't the mulch pit prevent bananas growing over the centre?.

It will quickly be invaded by rhizomes.

CraigSS
05-24-2018, 10:30 AM
Mack,
Understand about free plant. I also go by the theory that if it is free it is for me. Attach the mint invasion before it gets to far ahead of you. And even if the circle gets amalgamated into a big single plot, it will be a great are for your kids or grandchildren to play around.

Good luck,
Craig

mackmccaleb
06-11-2018, 12:40 PM
Banana circle update! Walkthrough videohttps://youtu.be/K6w7OaL4WvE

sputinc7
06-11-2018, 01:26 PM
As for the pics in your posts, most people don't make the pics small enough to be uploaded here... Either crop or resize to work. If the big red PROCESS button doesn't come up, they didn't upload (Usually meaning one or more is still too big.). Once you get them loaded on the site, there is a BB code you copy / paste into your comment on the bulletin board. Hope it helps.

mackmccaleb
07-21-2018, 08:07 AM
Things are really growing in my circle. The bananas are pushing out massive new leaves every few days. I decided to expand the circle a bit by adding three more smaller circles. I haven't planted anything yet, I'm letting the new beds rest for a while, but there are plenty of pups ready to separate and transplant. Please check out this video and give me some feedback!

https://youtu.be/J_F42O9Jo9c

cincinnana
07-21-2018, 10:01 AM
Things are really growing in my circle. The bananas are pushing out massive new leaves every few days. I decided to expand the circle a bit by adding three more smaller circles. I haven't planted anything yet, I'm letting the new beds rest for a while, but there are plenty of pups ready to separate and transplant. Please check out this video and give me some feedback!

https://youtu.be/J_F42O9Jo9cr

Awesome creative project.

I watched your videos and I am impressed with the way things are panning out.

beam2050
09-21-2018, 09:00 AM
got my banana circle complete. I put it in back yard where we used to let it grow a-natural. nothing would grow there except for weeds and black berries so I mowed it down a couple of years ago. it does not seem to fertile there.

in the pic on the backside are six namwa, in the front three dwarf reds and in the center three Manzano. I picked those for the diversity in leaves and p-stems. its about 15 ft. in diameter. I have been throwing the leaves I have cut from bananas around the yard. I hope to keep the weeds down with this and also to catch leaves from the surrounding trees.

I like it so I believe I am going to another one about 20 ft. from this one. maybe ladyfinger and iholena and blue java or praying hands in the center for a start. see what the spring brings.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=63671&size=1

mackmccaleb
09-21-2018, 05:02 PM
Looks good! Banana circles are a lot of work to install, and maintain as I'm coming to find out. However they do provide a convenient central location for mulch and watering. Consider interplanting some biodiversity in the spring! I'm getting pretty good annual vegetable production from my circle and it doesn't seem to be negatively affecting my bananas. I had a lawn a year ago, now I'm getting close to a backyard tropical paradise using bananas as the pioneer canopy layer. Very satisfied with the system so far.

HMelendez
09-22-2018, 08:24 AM
Master Beam,



Banana Circle looking good!.....Awesome job!.....Definitely it will pay off at the end!.....





*****A very good surprise!*****


The "supposedly" Dwarf Brazilian that I'm currently growing, turned out to be Praying Hands!.....Praying Hands approx. 11 ft. tall and keeps growing nicely!......As you mentioned, what a monster Nana Variety!......Woohooo!.....:08:





:2723::bananarow::2723:

Akula
09-22-2018, 09:26 AM
When planting in circles are the tallest plants in the middle with medium and shorties on the outside or tallest on the north side with medium and shorties on the south side? Or it doesn't matter?

beam2050
09-23-2018, 04:37 AM
thank you guys. should look pretty good next year.

dr. hector my Brazilians look awesome but my praying hands is a hoss. 7 ft. so far and has 1 pup.

When planting in circles are the tallest plants in the middle with medium and shorties on the outside or tallest on the north side with medium and shorties on the south side? Or it doesn't matter?

I just planted mine with dwarfs in the front as you walk up. and I planted the mat for the varying p-stem colors. keep the dead leaves off them and it should look pretty decent. will look better when I get tree leaves covering the banana leaves.