View Full Version : Proper care when first getting a TC plant from grower?
Kanana
11-25-2017, 10:43 AM
Ok, so I got my order of 6 plants from Florida Hill Nursery, and they were in baggies so I potted the larger ones in 3 gallon pots and the smaller Blue Javas in 2 gallons. They barely have any roots or rootball to speak of so how much water do they need and I know I read they need to stay out of the direct sun for 2 weeks, but when is a good time to get them in full sun as I live in SW Florida and even though a lot of people are bringing their plants indoors I will be trying to maximize the time they get full sun even though the nights are dropping into the high 60s here.
Kanana
11-25-2017, 01:28 PM
Also when is a good time to start fertilization while they are in pots?
Kanana
11-25-2017, 04:24 PM
Did I post this in the wrong forum? I thought I would have gotten a response by now or there would even (should) be a sticky on this kind of care seeing there is a lot of TC plants being sold unbeknownst to the buyer.
edwmax
11-25-2017, 06:18 PM
You might review my post in this thread for my recommendations. ... Also, review the entire thread if you haven't already. Most users on this forum will tell you to stay away from young TC plants and to buy big corms. I'm sure this is because of their failure of growing little TC and lack of growing info. http://www.bananas.org/f2/best-practice-grow-tc-bananas-46856.html#post301314
Now get FlordiaHill's growing instructions. it is on their website. Without the seller's/nursery's assurance, assume the little TC plants have not been field harden. It is recommended by UofGA researchers (& so stated in their reports) that young TC plantlets be grown in the greenhouse for 12 weeks before transplanting to the field.
Good Luck
MusaZombie
11-25-2017, 07:30 PM
Ok, so I got my order of 6 plants from Florida Hill Nursery, and they were in baggies so I potted the larger ones in 3 gallon pots and the smaller Blue Javas in 2 gallons. They barely have any roots or rootball to speak of so how much water do they need and I know I read they need to stay out of the direct sun for 2 weeks, but when is a good time to get them in full sun as I live in SW Florida and even though a lot of people are bringing their plants indoors I will be trying to maximize the time they get full sun even though the nights are dropping into the high 60s here.
Water them enough to keep the soil moist, but not drenched. Depending on your specific environment that might mean once every other day or once every three days or once and hour for 10 seconds (automated system).
The direct sun thing is basically about shock from transplantation. It's not a hard and fast rule but rather a good practice so they can focus on building roots. I've generally kept them out of direct sun for a week, or thereabouts. The high 60s are fine :)
Also when is a good time to start fertilization while they are in pots?
If your soil is good you likely don't need to fertilize right away. I'd give it a while. You could mix some mycorrhizae into the soil though, to help root growth.
druss
11-25-2017, 07:48 PM
I get my tc bananas like this:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=62658&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62658)
sputinc7
11-25-2017, 10:39 PM
Musazombie got it right. Sixties is fine, keep them moist but not wet.
I always put mine right in the ground and put a lawn chair up to block midday sun. I have done this with 8 so far and lost none because of it.
MusaZombie
11-25-2017, 10:41 PM
Musazombie got it right. Sixties is fine, keep them moist but not wet.
I always put mine right in the ground and put a lawn chair up to block midday sun. I have done this with 8 so far and lost none because of it.
Haha! I love the lawn chair step. That's so simple I never would have thought of that.
druss
11-26-2017, 01:37 AM
This is them about a week after potting up
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=62659 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62658&limit=recent)
Kanana
11-26-2017, 01:26 PM
Water them enough to keep the soil moist, but not drenched. Depending on your specific environment that might mean once every other day or once every three days or once and hour for 10 seconds (automated system).
The direct sun thing is basically about shock from transplantation. It's not a hard and fast rule but rather a good practice so they can focus on building roots. I've generally kept them out of direct sun for a week, or thereabouts. The high 60s are fine :)
If your soil is good you likely don't need to fertilize right away. I'd give it a while. You could mix some mycorrhizae into the soil though, to help root growth.
Well nights are low to high 60s but days are still in upper 70s low to mid 80s. So a week from now or a full 2 weeks from me receiving these TCs will they be able to take full sun without getting scorched leaves?
MusaZombie
11-26-2017, 01:31 PM
Well nights are low to high 60s but days are still in upper 70s low to mid 80s. So a week from now or a full 2 weeks from me receiving these TCs will they be able to take full sun without getting scorched leaves?
I'd follow sputinc7's advice and just erect some form of a sun block. Hell, even some cheese cloth on stakes would probably do the trick. Basically you just want them to focus on root growth for a week or so before getting strong sun. I have found two weeks to be too much, but it certainly my doesn't hurt to give them some extra time. Just make sure the soil is yummy :)
Kanana
11-26-2017, 01:35 PM
Well I do have 30% shade screening I can improvise some sort of hut these 6 pots can fit into where they will get protection. How many weeks under this before taking them out of it 2 weeks? A month?
MusaZombie
11-26-2017, 01:37 PM
Well I do have 30% shade screening I can improvise some sort of hut these 6 pots can fit into where they will get protection. How many weeks under this before taking them out of it 2 weeks? A month?
Two weeks is probably fine. Just don't have them over cement or anything that gets super hot in the sun as that is when I've found burnings to happen more frequently.
sputinc7
11-26-2017, 04:54 PM
What is nice with the lawn chair is they get a little morning sun and a little late afternoon sun to give them strength to make the roots. After they start growing I move it so they get more sun, but still block the midday sun as it is HOT here in Florida. Another week and I take it away. They are plants. God made them to be in the sun...
Kanana
11-26-2017, 05:10 PM
Can you illustrate the lawn chair thing? Is it a fabric chair that acts like a screen or would a plastic stackable lawn chair work? Is the chair completely covering the plants? Mine are in 3 gallon containers and are already 2 1/2'-3' tall from top leaves to the bottom of pot which wouldnt fit under most chairs.
sddarkman619
12-02-2017, 09:03 PM
Edwmax I've never heard not to buy young TC on here. In fact I'm sure you know I sell TC but I have mine potted up and have been growing in pots for a while, when I sell mine. They typically have a nice root set on them, in fact some may be almost root bound when you get them and hardened pretty well.
But as for general straight out of the tray like Fla Hills sells his I would agree.
edwmax
12-02-2017, 10:58 PM
Edwmax I've never heard not to buy young TC on here. In fact I'm sure you know I sell TC but I have mine potted up and have been growing in pots for a while, when I sell mine. They typically have a nice root set on them, in fact some may be almost root bound when you get them and hardened pretty well.
But as for general straight out of the tray like Fla Hills sells his I would agree.
Then you & I agree, unless the seller can assure the buyer the TC plantlets have been harden off and field ready to plant, then the buyer needs to give the young TC plantlets special care for a few weeks. ... Fla Hill (deceptively ???) describes their plantlets as being in or from 4" trays. Their plantlets are from 'plug trays' that measure abt 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" x 4" deep. I think the same trays Agristarts roots in.
As far as the past comments by some forum members 'not to buy TC plantlets', These are laced in several threads when a newbie asked about TCs. They would be very tedious to find right now. ... However I think those comments are dying down since you, I and a couple of other members are giving instructions on how the grow the young tender plantlet.
I know you buy TC trays from Agristarts, then give the young plantlets the needed attention to harden them off to resell or share. I have never said or insinuated not to buy your plants. ... I plan to do the same; I've had an account with Agristarts for about 11 months now.
druss
12-02-2017, 11:22 PM
I buy all my bananas as plantlets rooted in agar. It's the only way to bring them in to my state. I've purchased nearly 100 now and only lost one. I'm not quite sure what the difficulty is. I just followed the instructions provided first time then modified to suit. I've hardened them off in mid summer and mid winter. I usually wash off the agar, pot them up in good mix place them in mini greenhouses with a water tray. In summer I put them in the shade house under 40% shadecloth. In winter they go in the polytunnel under dappled shade. In winter I use an electric blanket under the trays. The extra warmth helps them along. Over two weeks I open the vents from fully closed to fully open gradually lowering the humidity. I also use dilute seasol to encourage the roots. By week 3 or 4 the lids are off permanently in summer. In winter I put them on at night. Soon after they're in 140mm pots then 200.
edwmax
12-03-2017, 06:07 AM
At least you get instructions with your plantlets! And, humidity & shade are key to growing & hardening off these new young plants as you described.
druss
12-03-2017, 06:54 AM
I still have them somewhere, will try and upload.
druss
12-03-2017, 07:54 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=62678&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62678)This is the vunamami I got midwinter in June as a plantlet.
duaneh
12-03-2017, 08:12 PM
I have never even heard of vunamami but I like it nice coloration is it known by any other name?
druss
12-03-2017, 08:21 PM
Nope, its an unusual variety from png. An AS diploid. Apparently they can be finicky to grow but so far so good.
duaneh
12-03-2017, 08:28 PM
I want one keep me in mind when you get pups if its even possible to ship to the states from australia
edwmax
12-04-2017, 06:39 AM
I still have them somewhere, will try and upload.
I would like to read them and add to my references on TC plantlets.
edwmax
12-04-2017, 06:49 AM
I get my tc bananas like this:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=62658&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62658)
This is what I suspect Fla Hill nursery and a few other TC nursery/sellers do. Buy plantlets in jars at pennies per each; then divide & transplant to 4' plug trays for a few weeks then sell them.
druss
12-04-2017, 07:02 AM
That's dicey at best.
edwmax
12-04-2017, 07:42 AM
That's dicey at best.
Why is that???
MusaZombie
12-04-2017, 01:10 PM
Why is that???
Because they're focusing on profit over product. They're buying stuff super cheap and holding onto it a minimal amount of time before selling it off. They aren't hardening the little guys enough, which ends up causing threads like this and an unhappy customer base
I bought from FL Hills once and got an aphid infested banana. I contacted them about it and never heard back. I then went back later and couldn't access my account so I tried doing a password reset and never saw any email so I tried to then contact them directly and still never heard back. Basically that business is dead to me
druss
12-04-2017, 04:11 PM
It takes 2 - 3 weeks just to acclimatise the leaves to atmosphere and the root system is still pretty small. It would be minimum 2 months before Id consider them even remotely tough. But maybe with more high tech gear they can do it faster.
edwmax
12-04-2017, 04:48 PM
It takes 2 - 3 weeks just to acclimatise the leaves to atmosphere and the root system is still pretty small. It would be minimum 2 months before Id consider them even remotely tough. But maybe with more high tech gear they can do it faster.
No ... your timing is about right. Plantlets out of the jar should be in plug trays for 3 to 4 weeks while they grow roots in a 80% shaded greenhouse and shading being reduced to 60% by 4 weeks. As well as being under mist system and folar feeding. ... Then be transplanted to 4 or 6" pots and move into a shade house with light misting to be acclimated to full sunlight for another 3 to 4 weeks.
It's the second part that Fla Hill nursery doesn't seen to do.
Tytaylor77
12-04-2017, 04:56 PM
Your correct Druss! They do take a little time and care. I have received many from our research station USDA Tars in that same condition. In Test Tubes or Sealed plastic.
Florida Hills and others just buy from Agristarts. Anyone can buy them. You just have to buy a whole tray which is 72 plants. They are a already half hardened when the nursery receives them but they should harden them off further! Most times they don’t. The prices vary. You can go look it up. I know dwarf cavendish is only .40 or .50 if i remember right. Most other Musa TCs are .70 to 1.50. After you figure in loosing some, repotting, extra soil, pots, time, water, etc. Then of course Shipping. Sddarkman isn’t getting rich i promise! He is doing it the CORRECT way. If you order a goldfinger from him guess what you was delivered? A goldfinger! If he sold 5 different types and just shipped you a cheap dwarf cavendish with a goldfinger tag on it he would make a lot more! That is what most people do. Most likely you would never even know! If he did this like others he would make much more! But he doesn’t! He is a good, honest man! I sell pups and I have even referred some of my customers and friends to him! I would be happy with the plant in question. Unless it has some type of fungus, mold, etc then the old leaves doesn’t matter. The new leaf/growth is what’s important. It will recover and be fine. Small TC plants love humidity. So get a spray bottle and mist them everytime you walk by them. It will help them more than anything else you can do!! Good luck and keep us updated how they all end up. My Florida Hill experience was horrible. The plants they sent was not the plants i ordered!
sddarkman619
12-04-2017, 05:10 PM
The prices vary. You can go look it up. I know dwarf cavendish is only .40 or .50 if i remember right. Most other Musa TCs are .70 to 1.50.
actually they are all over 1$ and some are now 2$
beam2050
12-05-2017, 08:37 AM
My Florida Hill experience was horrible. The plants they sent was not the plants i ordered!
I went to the local ace hardware a few weeks back. they had a goldfinger and a sweetheart for sale. well they did not look like my gf and sw, the p-stem looked like gran nain. the stems were about 3 ft. high.
MusaZombie
12-05-2017, 08:56 AM
I went to the local ace hardware a few weeks back. they had a goldfinger and a sweetheart for sale. well they did not look like my gf and sw, the p-stem looked like gran nain. the stems were about 3 ft. high.
I look for Ace to be helpful, at an elevated price, but certainly not the place to go to buy a variety of banana plants :). And I certainly wouldn't expect the employees to know hoa to ID them
beam2050
12-05-2017, 09:04 AM
I look for Ace to be helpful, at an elevated price, but certainly not the place to go to buy a variety of banana plants :). And I certainly wouldn't expect the employees to know hoa to ID them
I like their stainless steel nuts and bolts. but while I am there I like to go to their garden dept.
went to a flea market last year and found banana plants with the prettiest p-stem, they said the bananas were dc's. not being to convince and not wanting a dc I went home to look closer at the p-stems of mine. they weren't dc, went back 2 weeks later and they were gone.
Kanana
12-25-2017, 01:41 AM
Well for the past week I've had 6 of the plants under 30% UV reduction screen in a full sun area but I basically ran the screen over a trash can on one side and a wheel barrow on the other and the open middle screened section is where the banana containers were placed. The trash can is facing north, the wheelbarrow is east and there is no blocking structures east or west. I haven't been watering them but the soil still seems heavy after I first soaked them when I potted them over a month ago. I do mist them once a day or every other day if I skip once. The ones I put under the screen are showing more and more signs of sun scald on the leaves. Should I leave them there now and hope for the best or bring them back into my shady lanai that only gets slightly indirect light in the early morning like 7am to 11am? The ones I still have in the lanai (1 sweetheart, 1 praying haands and 1 goldfinger) look ok and not sunburned but I was thinking they'd be safe under the screen acting as a shade, and that my lanai (or indoors when it was cooler a couple of weeks ago) they really werent getting enough sunlight as I keep reading bananas LOVE sun. But just like every plant I try to grown here in Florida, nothing I grow ever does well in FULL SUN and I was specifically buying bananas to eventually plant in this full sun area.
Kanana
12-25-2017, 03:38 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=62678&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62678)This is the vunamami I got midwinter in June as a plantlet.
What size are those containers and how old is that banana? I have mine in 3 gallon containers but the plants look tiny in those containers compared to yours. Hope mine get that big in the next few months but the growth seems minimal to none in the first month even though they are now outdoors. Maybe half of mine grew 1 new leaf in a month but a couple have shirvelled up since then. At this rate the old leaves will die faster than new ones replace them.
sddarkman619
12-25-2017, 04:45 PM
put them in smaller pots so they dry out faster. so the roots will not rot. Add more perlite. No moisture control soil.
only move to larger pot when you see roots starting to show out the bottom.
Kanana
12-25-2017, 06:32 PM
put them in smaller pots so they dry out faster. so the roots will not rot. Add more perlite. No moisture control soil.
only move to larger pot when you see roots starting to show out the bottom.
Thanks, so would going back down to 1 gallon pots be ok or is that even too big? It just seems odd seeing these tall plants in tiny containers. I guess bananas are an anomaly but everything else I grow the bigger containers are always better with new plants to give the roots a place to grow and not get rootbound. Usually smaller pots will limit the growth of the plant.
sddarkman619
12-25-2017, 06:55 PM
Downsizing is good especially if the plants have't done anything and the soil is staying wet.
Smaller containers WILL limit the growth IF you let them get root bound. But remember to unravel the roots of the banana when you plant it into a larger pot.
I've had the same situation in the past with several varieties of plants. Pot too big, it stays wet too long. Plant can't absorb enough of the water to help it dry out. So smaller is better until it get's larger. once you see roots coming from the bottom, then transplant.
Kanana
12-25-2017, 07:19 PM
This might be good re-potting these, even just to see the progress of the roots growth since a month ago. Should be interesting. Merry Christmas.
sddarkman619
12-26-2017, 12:28 AM
make sure to add more perlite just for drainage sake.
hopefully you see some good growth, if not you know it's too wet.
cincinnana
12-26-2017, 11:30 AM
Thanks, so would going back down to 1 gallon pots be ok or is that even too big? It just seems odd seeing these tall plants in tiny containers. I guess bananas are an anomaly but everything else I grow the bigger containers are always better with new plants to give the roots a place to grow and not get rootbound. Usually smaller pots will limit the growth of the plant.
I had responded to another post of yours before I had seen this discussion.:)
Seems like we are all on the same page.
Water? - Bananas.org (http://www.bananas.org/showthread.php?p=311981#post311981)
Kanana
12-26-2017, 09:21 PM
SDdarkman, I took your advice and repotted the ones that looked the weakest that were in 3 gallon pots. I dumped out the mix they were in and mixed a new batch with much dryer components of pine bark fines, crushed lava rock, perlite, and small amount of bio char, and a small small amount of compost.
The FL Hill TC plantlets still didn't have much root development and once I knocked off all the old damp soil, the "rootball" (actually more like the formed bullet shape they came to me in plastic from Florida Hill) was still in pretty much the same shape and size as to when I planted them in 1 or 3 gallon pots. I didn't disturb the root area too much but I did try to loosen up some of the damp soil to knock that off before re-potting.
I decided to go with 6" pots which are a little smaller than the 1 gallon pots, but now I will have to be cautious that they don't dry out too much and will be asking folks here, how much is enough/too much water, being there is less margin for error for soil moisture in these smaller pots.
Normally, with any other plant I repot I usually saturate the plant and let the water drain out but this time I just used barely moist soil when I repotted ( using the mix mentioned above) and just misted the leaves. I guess for the next few days I will continue to just mist the leaves unless I hear otherwise.
Also I decided to move them back inside my lanai as this repotting with a drier mixture and smaller pot would most likely be a transplant shock when combined with 80 degree mid day full sun even being under the shade screen, and I don't want to kill them.
Kanana
12-26-2017, 09:28 PM
SDDarkman, since I have 2 Goldfingers I bought from you, I will keep one in the 1 gallon (but I will just re-pot it in the same container but with the drier mix I did the others with) and compare the growth with the one in the 6" pot. Should be interesting if there is any growth rate difference at all as they are both about the same height right now and display about the same amount of health and vigor. Any predictions?:08:
sddarkman619
12-26-2017, 11:05 PM
how did the roots look?
Kanana
12-26-2017, 11:32 PM
SDdarkman, the roots on yours were all well developed. Actually when I checked the pot sizes I guess I assumed the 8" pot was a 1 gallon, but side by side I see a slight difference. So the GF I had in the 8" pot I just emptied out the old mix and used the drier mix and put it back in the 8" pot. The one I initially potted into a 1 gallon pot I downsized into the 6" pot with the drier mix.
It's too dark to take pics now but I will try to take some tomorrow if nothing more than to keep a log of their progress.
The 2 Blue Javas (fake ones) from FL Hill were the smallest TC plants when I received and are still small and weak looking. Not many roots, but still small roots within the bullet shaped rootball, but they never spread laterally yet, so hopefully with the new drier mix they will grow and spread. They are both in 6" pots now.
1 Sweetheart and 1 Praying Hands (from FL Hill) were in 3 gallon pots and they are the largest banana plants and seem to have grown the most. As a test, I will keep them as-is, as they have both produced new leaves (1 each). I did remove the 1 inch pine bark fines mulch layer on these 2 plants, as they will be better off drying out some and I'll continue to refrain from watering, until it is obvious they need water.
1 Sweetheart was already in a 1 gallon plant and I am keeping that one outside under the 30% shade screen as it is doing well there and it came with a pup growing next to it. Also when I initially made the mix for when I repotted this back in November, there must have been a few tomato seeds as there are 3 small tomato plants which I will continue to let grow in that container as companion plants and also they should help keep the pot from having too much moisture, by absorbing excess moisture as the tomato plants grow and require more water.
1 Basijou went from 3 gallon to 6" pot and it is looking a little better than the Blue Javas but not as good as the Sweethearts or Praying Hands.
The 2 Goldfingers are healthy looking and have the thickest p-stem for their short stature compared to any of the others. Not sure if it is the variety of banana that has this trait, or because they were grown by SDDarkman, who made it clear that he grows his out longer than FL Hill. Only SDDarkman's had truer looking roots compared to the FL Hill plants.
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