View Full Version : ethlyne gas to force flowering ?
obdiah
10-05-2017, 02:04 PM
does any one have or know of any research dealing with ethlyne gas to force blooming with bananas / I know it works with pineapple but haven't found anything on bananas in my zone early blooming is a have to to get mature fruit
Richard
10-05-2017, 06:19 PM
In my experience, forcing flowering on bananas is a poor practice. In particular, the fruit isn't worth eating.
obdiah
10-05-2017, 06:46 PM
thanks Richard
I am aware of that but growing bananas in the foothills of the north Carolina mountains is a rather poor practice also but I do it and manage to fruit a few now and then poor bananas are better than no bananas and in a short growing season timing is ultra critical if you expect fruit
and bananas on their on could care less about timing they usually bloom when the darn well please I am doing the best I can in a difficult environment and seem to be making some progress its just a hobby and I love pushing the envelope to the exstreams so I will ask again does any one know of any info on the subject? just seeking knowledge no since doing research again that's already been done
D L Moody quote
One day a lady criticized D. L. Moody for his methods of evangelism in attempting to win people to the Lord. Moody’s reply was "I agree with you. I don’t like the way I do it either. Tell me, how do you do it?" The lady replied, "I don’t do it." Moody retorted, "Then I like my way of doing it better than your way of not doing it."
Gabe15
10-05-2017, 07:35 PM
In my experience, forcing flowering on bananas is a poor practice. In particular, the fruit isn't worth eating.
What technique have you used to force bananas to flower?
obdiah
10-05-2017, 09:54 PM
What technique have you used to force bananas to flower?
nothing yet just trying to set pups at the right time for spring flowrig I have used ethyline
on pineapple and cut almost 6 months of time to bloom both with apple slices in the crown
and calcium carbide in a cloth bag ( acetylene instead of ethylene) but seems to give the same results as I grow several plants in pit greenhouses in a semi closed inviroment it would be easy to add ethlyne gas in small amounts but there seems to be very little info
of its use on bananas other plants yes but not bananas I also plan on trying a high phosphors fertilizer this spring
Richard
10-05-2017, 10:00 PM
What technique have you used to force bananas to flower?
These were all performed in USDA hardiness zone 9 on pups that arose in the summer in a single mat. By fall they were 4' to 5' tall. The mats were at least 2 years old. Only one pup per mat was allowed to proceed. The stimulants were applied to the entire mat.
One Spring, a diet of water soluble 5-50-17 on Namwa.
Another Spring, a diet of a licensed PGR on Dwarf Brazilian.
Two years later, a moderate diet of both on Manzano.
obdiah
10-06-2017, 07:16 AM
These were all performed in USDA hardiness zone 9 on pups that arose in the summer in a single mat. By fall they were 4' to 5' tall. The mats were at least 2 years old. Only one pup per mat was allowed to proceed. The stimulants were applied to the entire mat.
One Spring, a diet of water soluble 5-50-17 on Namwa.
Another Spring, a diet of a licensed PGR on Dwarf Brazilian.
Two years later, a moderate diet of both on Manzano.
thanks Richard can I find copies of the study online?
bananaT
10-06-2017, 10:56 AM
This is observations over the years;
Stressed plants have fruited faster at times. I've noticed this with the drought we had here the beginning of the year. After the rains started quite a few of my clumps pushed bells way before I was expecting. Veinte cohol, nam wah, double, Orinoco, patupi all did when they were much shorter than normal.
The bunches were smaller, or in the case of 1000 fingers, Orinoco, double, they produced only male flowers in a few.
Sooo, perhaps cutting water in the dry season, and then feeding and watering well later on would force some bunches.......
Or!! get a really big bag, place it over your banana and tie it off.
Get a large bag of ripening fruit; apples, bananas, something that gives off lots of ethylene.
connect it to your tree with a hose....
Maybe that'll work.
aruzinsky
10-06-2017, 10:57 AM
a licensed PGR.
Can you be more vague?
does any one have or know of any research dealing with ethlyne gas to force blooming with bananas / I know it works with pineapple but haven't found anything on bananas in my zone early blooming is a have to to get mature fruit
No, but an ethylene precursor, Ethephon, has been used to hasten ripening of banana fruit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethephon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004RZBYC2/ref=asc_df_B004RZBYC25203320
The effects of ethephon on the ripening of Vietnamese Latundan bananas(Musa sapientum) - - ScopeMed.org - Deposit for Medical Articles (http://www.scopemed.org/?mno=185905)
Typically, ethylene or Ethephon will cause early senescence of leaves in many plants but I don't know the exact effect on musa plants.
Richard
10-06-2017, 01:37 PM
thanks Richard can I find copies of the study online?
Those were my own trials at my former residence in Rancho Peñasquitos, CA. In each case the plant flowered early in comparison to other mats. The buds were anemic and when ripe the fruit taste was poor.
obdiah
10-06-2017, 06:43 PM
Those were my own trials at my former residence in Rancho Peñasquitos, CA. In each case the plant flowered early in comparison to other mats. The buds were anemic and when ripe the fruit taste was poor.
thanks Richard not great news but a place to start any way I suppose the best solution would be move to Florida:ha::ha: but stuck here just to old to move
edwmax
10-06-2017, 07:41 PM
thanks Richard not great news but a place to start any way I suppose the best solution would be move to Florida:ha::ha: but stuck here just to old to move
Grow basjoo for aesthetics in the yard. ... buy bananas to eat at the store. Save the aching back, possible heart attack, and likely much cheaper.
:nanadrink:
Richard
10-06-2017, 08:22 PM
thanks Richard not great news but a place to start any way I suppose the best solution would be move to Florida:ha::ha: but stuck here just to old to move
Actually, you have other possibilities ... including learning to overwinter bananas indoors or in a greenhouse. Much cheaper than moving!
Richard
10-06-2017, 08:25 PM
... buy bananas to eat at the store. ...
Bleeck.
edwmax
10-07-2017, 07:34 AM
Bleeck.
When you can't grow 'em, store or market bought is the only option. ... Unless you are willing to give yours away FREE.
obdiah
10-07-2017, 08:39 AM
Actually, you have other possibilities ... including learning to overwinter bananas indoors or in a greenhouse. Much cheaper than moving!
already done that gota do something new and fun :ha::ha:
I have heard plants respond to music what do you think about playing bluegrass music
for them 24 hours a day could force blooming from shear enjoyment
or perhaps loud rap music with a promise to turn it off if they bloom i would bloom to get away from rap :ha::ha:
obdiah
10-07-2017, 08:53 AM
Grow basjoo for aesthetics in the yard. ... buy bananas to eat at the store. Save the aching back, possible heart attack, and likely much cheaper.
:nanadrink:
aesthetics? heck even my basjos,s have naners never mature though thinking about green basjoo dill pickles
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62449&ppuser=18928><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=62449&size=1 border=0></a>
Gabe15
10-07-2017, 10:50 AM
Richard, what PGR did you use? How much quicker did the plants flower in your experiment compared to untreated plants? How fast was the response?
Richard
10-07-2017, 03:14 PM
Richard, what PGR did you use? How much quicker did the plants flower in your experiment compared to untreated plants? How fast was the response?
The PGR was a pint sample from a colleague that worked for Abbott. Apparently it is used in aerial spray on row crops to induce uniform flowering. Target crops include brassicas and strawberries.
For the bananas in question at that location it was typically 18 months from new pup in the mat to inflorecence. Hence I learned to select and cull around October for blooming a little over a year later.
My first experiment was on Namwa. March that year was very temperature so I began dosing the mat with 5-50-17. Sure enough it flowered that summer while the other mats did not (as usual) until the following spring. In my recollection the inflorecence produced only about 6 female hands, most of which missing a finger or two, all a bit shorter than usual, and when ripe was basically tasteless -- like some "supermarket" bananas can be.
I tried the following year with the PGR on Brazilian and two years later with a bit of each on Manzano -- both trials with the same result.
A year later (2013) I moved to my present location in NW Vista, CA. The microclimate is a little milder here -- probably zone 10b. The cycle seems shorter here. Pups of most varieties that come up in mid-Spring bloom 10-14 months later. An exception is a Gros Michael I obtained as a TC which is taking a long time to get established.
obdiah
10-07-2017, 03:28 PM
ethylene is considered a pgr
easier to get my hands on than I thought pricey though
ebay really does have everything just out omf money right now
Matheson Ethylene gas ultra high purity LOT of 2 cylinders / bottles .25 lb each | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matheson-Ethylene-gas-ultra-high-purity-LOT-of-2-cylinders-bottles-25-lb-each-/142418476449?epid=25003485842&hash=item2128cd7da1:g:61IAAOSwjKFZRm1B)
Richard
10-07-2017, 04:11 PM
ethylene is considered a pgr ...
There are many different kinds of PGRs. Some are general in function while others are very specific; e.g. shortening internode lengths in plant stems.
I've known ethylene as a means of accelerating ripening in fruit and never read about its use as a bloom stimulant -- probably due to my choice of literature. :)
obdiah
10-07-2017, 05:04 PM
There are many different kinds of PGRs. Some are general in function while others are very specific; e.g. shortening internode lengths in plant stems.
I've known ethylene as a means of accelerating ripening in fruit and never read about its use as a bloom stimulant -- probably due to my choice of literature. :)
Richard i can find instances of its use as a bloom stimulant on pineapple and a few other plants nothing on musa at all from what I read it can actually retard blooming in some plants there seems to be no -specific research on bananas other than as a ripening agent but from experience it does work well on pineapple as a bloom inducer in my area
time to bloom went from 36 to around 30 months plants spent summers on my deck and winters in the house fruit was of normal size but somewhat lacking in flavor
some info here much of it above my pay grade
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC433312/
obdiah
10-07-2017, 08:19 PM
a little more info this time on acetylene kinda vague but I will keep digging
and I have it on hand I have several young velutinas in the green house when the get a little bigger I may bag one gas it and compare the difference
In atomic absorption flame spectroscopy, acetylene is combined with high-purity synthetic air or nitrous oxide as a fuel for the flame.
Beyond its obvious value as a fuel gas, acetylene has many other less-well-known applications. It is used to produce certain plastics and chemicals for instance. It also plays a role in organic synthesis (laboratory work) and chemical synthesis. In plant cultivation, it improves the forming of new flowers.It is also used as a carbon source in molecular manufacturing, in calibration gases for the gas, oil and chemical industries and in lung testing gases.
Acetylene is manufactured commercially by reacting calcium carbide and water. It is also a by-product of ethylene production.
Acetylene | Linde Industrial Gases (http://www.linde-gas.com/en/products_and_supply/gases_fuel/acetylene.html)
n: AFTERNOONS.
ACETYLENE GAS IN PLANT
GROWING.
The results obtained in the elaborate
experiments with acetylene gas on plant
life at the Cornell University, as set forth
in a paper by Professor John Craig
(writes the "Acetylene Journal"), Chi
cago, are what might be expected when
the close approximation of acetylene 1l
lumination to sunlight is considered.
The sun, as everyone knows, stands for
life and development.in plant culture. It
is the chief element upon which the gar
dener who forces flowers and vegetables
under glass depends. When, therefore,
he can turn to what is virtually sun
shine, as produced with ease, economy,
and in abundance by agetylene, he at
once finds help over hard places. Pro
fessor Craig begins his paper by quot
ing Munstorberg as showing, the nearly
equal cglor values of the sun and acety
lene as' revealed by spectrum analysis.
It is a showing suoh as no other artifi
cial light reveals. 'n that brief ,conm
parison is found the basis of 'the success
with acetylene in plant culture. , The
benefit from acetylene was found not
only as making up for deficiency of sun
light, but in adding to the efficiency of
sunlight for plant growth. In 'the ex
periment on 150 different kinds of plants,
with few exceptions the growth was
stronger, while the time of bloom'and of
maturity was materially advanced. For
Instance, strawberries were brought into
bearing 16 days, or more than two weeks
earlier, as the result of acetylene added
to sunlight. In the case of geranium
(pelargonium) and lilumn `blooms, the
15 Mar 1910 - ACETYLENE GAS IN PLANT GROWING. - Trove (http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/31374191)
Richard
10-07-2017, 10:58 PM
a little more info this time on acetylene kinda vague but I will keep digging
I think you have a very sharp machete but you're cutting the wrong forest.
I believe it is within your means to grow specific cultivars from pups in the springtime and then overwinter them to produce fruit in the following year. For heaven's sake, there are members here in Little Rock Arkansas that do this.
If instead you wish to pursue the poorly charted research topic of accelerating banana fruiting with profitable results in non-tropical environments then I refer you to Gabe15. As of this post, I am unsubscribed from this thread.
Gabe15
10-08-2017, 03:07 AM
Well Richard, I'll have you know that shortening the time to flowering in bananas would be an extremely useful tool in breeding programs where fruit quality and yield are not at all important, but making as many crosses as quick as possible is extremely important, not just logistically, but also in regards to funding and turn around time. To my knowledge, nothing has been published on being able to force bananas to bloom, and I've spent time looking and asking my breeder colleagues, but if you have found something that really does work, it would generate quite a lot of interest. You don't have any information at all on what the product was?
Tytaylor77
10-08-2017, 02:10 PM
ethylene is considered a pgr
easier to get my hands on than I thought pricey though
ebay really does have everything just out omf money right now
Matheson Ethylene gas ultra high purity LOT of 2 cylinders / bottles .25 lb each | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matheson-Ethylene-gas-ultra-high-purity-LOT-of-2-cylinders-bottles-25-lb-each-/142418476449?epid=25003485842&hash=item2128cd7da1:g:61IAAOSwjKFZRm1B)
When I harvest a late half filled bunch I hang it up just like normal and i slip a big black trash bag over the whole bunch. Don’t seal it. Just leave a hole on top for air to flow. I throw fruit in the bag. Apples, wild persimmons, anything that puts out ethylene gas. In 2-3 weeks they are yellow!
I also will cut a hand at a time and place them in a paper bag with an apple or 2. It works and it’s way cheaper and safer than buying the eBay stuff!
These unfilled bunches dry up in the middle FAST! Some like Orinoco will turn black before yellow if you don’t force ripening. The key is to ripen them ASAP after picking them!
You could always do like they do in India! Take the immature bananas and force ripen them ASAP. Afterwards peel them and dehydrate/sun dry. I plan on trying some this year.
obdiah
10-08-2017, 04:48 PM
When I harvest a late half filled bunch I hang it up just like normal and i slip a big black trash bag over the whole bunch. Don’t seal it. Just leave a hole on top for air to flow. I throw fruit in the bag. Apples, wild persimmons, anything that puts out ethylene gas. In 2-3 weeks they are yellow!
I also will cut a hand at a time and place them in a paper bag with an apple or 2. It works and it’s way cheaper and safer than buying the eBay stuff!
These unfilled bunches dry up in the middle FAST! Some like Orinoco will turn black before yellow if you don’t force ripening. The key is to ripen them ASAP after picking them!
You could always do like they do in India! Take the immature bananas and force ripen them ASAP. Afterwards peel them and dehydrate/sun dry. I plan on trying some this year.
you can also use calcium carbide available on ebay for less than 20 bucks gives off acetylene gas on contact with moisture witch will also force ripening
Tytaylor77
10-10-2017, 01:36 AM
you can also use calcium carbide available on ebay for less than 20 bucks gives off acetylene gas on contact with moisture witch will also force ripening
Wow thank you. I will check that out! Do you know how much it takes?
obdiah
10-10-2017, 08:02 AM
Wow thank you. I will check that out! Do you know how much it takes?
a small amount in a damp cloth bag should do it stuff looks like gravel 1 or 2 small pices would be enough for a bunch
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