Log in

View Full Version : Some p-stems stop growing?


SonnyCrockett
04-28-2017, 06:19 AM
I had a few mats where just one p-stem would start to grow a little as it warmed up, but then would stop before a leaf unfurled. Other p-stems the same size and age seem to wake up from the cold and start pushing leaves okay. What causes this?

I tried to peel back some of the dried leaves at the top of the p-stem as it warmed up to expose the center leaf. But the tissue in the center was white. Instead of pushing out a green leaf, usually the exposed tissue would turn darker, like a sunscald, and then start to turn mushy.

I tried to keep cutting down until I hit something approximating a developing leaf, but didn't see anything.

url=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61408&ppuser=21632]http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61408&size=1[/url]

url=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61406&ppuser=21632]http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61406&size=1[/url]

Any suggestions?

Sonny

Island Brah
04-28-2017, 09:42 AM
I'd start by cutting all the dried leaves off and check the drainage of the soil in that spot.

has it always grown like that or just this year?

SonnyCrockett
04-28-2017, 09:51 AM
The strange thing is that all the other p-stems in the same mat will be healthy and fine - throwing up full sized leaves. In the pictures, you can see two p-stems the same size right next to each other, but one is not really springing to life and the other is fine. It just seems like every so often there's one p-stem in the mat that sort of chokes or fails or something. Not sure why though. Any thoughts?

Island Brah
04-28-2017, 09:58 AM
is it at random or is it the same p-stem every time?

edwmax
04-28-2017, 10:02 AM
I've had this to happen on several plants due to a stem infection or root infection. With the stem infection, The stem slowly died/rotted back to the corm. Then the top of the corm (top grow point) rotted out. The stem would continually show green as you cut the dead off. ... If root rot, the stem would slowly die back as the roots die & rot.

I have 5 pots now after 4 months (+) are popping up pups (2 or more). I cleaned, cut, scraped the rot off and heavily treated/washed with bleach water to kill the fungus. I don't expect the mother corm to survive, but the pups will be repotted soon.

Your plant, for a mild infection, the plant might recover on it's own. Give it time. ... Also, if that stem is more tan 2 years old it may be spent and dying back as part of the natural plant cycle. ... If the stem loses more than half its height, then more drastic measures & inspection of the corm may be need. .... just my opinion ...

Island Brah
04-28-2017, 10:06 AM
I have 5 pots now after 4 months (+) are popping up pups (2 or more). I cleaned, cut, scraped the rot off and heavily treated/washed with bleach water to kill the fungus. I don't expect the mother corm to survive, but the pups will be repotted soon.



You washed the corm in bleach??? Yikes

SonnyCrockett
04-28-2017, 12:16 PM
It's fairly random. 2 name wahs on 2 different mats and 1 raja puri. Maybe they were the original stems? It's hard to tell on the name wahs, since the suckers are as big as the original stems.

These were in pots until last March, so it's their first year in the ground

edwmax
04-28-2017, 01:39 PM
You washed the corm in bleach??? Yikes

YES! ... It is standard agricultural practice to disinfect banana corms, other plants, and equipment with bleach water solution. Another way is to submerge the corm in 'hot water' about 160 - 180 deg F which would also kill insects. ... I prefer to use bleach; it is quicker than heating water.

Island Brah
04-28-2017, 01:43 PM
YES! ... It is standard agricultural practice to disinfect banana corms, other plants, and equipment with bleach water solution. Another way is to submerge the corm in 'hot water' about 160 - 180 deg F which would also kill insects. ... I prefer to use bleach; it is quicker than heating water.

That's wild! Would have never thought to put bleach on roots LOL. I'd never try that on mine :)

edwmax
04-28-2017, 01:49 PM
It's fairly random. 2 name wahs on 2 different mats and 1 raja puri. Maybe they were the original stems? It's hard to tell on the name wahs, since the suckers are as big as the original stems.

These were in pots until last March, so it's their first year in the ground

It's hard to tell how old the plant is in the pot at the nursery. ... If the banana plant is pupping and the nursery/store is discounting the sell price, then it is likely older than a year. ... I bought a couple of bananas this way. The mother stalk has since died, but the pups are growing.

edwmax
04-28-2017, 01:57 PM
That's wild! Would have never thought to put bleach on roots LOL. I'd never try that on mine :)

You should consider this when planting corms from someone else's patch. This is how to prevent spread of plant diseases. And it will certainly kill root rot fungus.

One should always practice safe se.... errrr .... I mean protect you banana.

SonnyCrockett
05-04-2017, 07:43 PM
A couple of the stems are now pushing out white leaves that got folded up somehow. Another stem has a half-ejected leaf that is slowly creeping out - less than 1/4" over the past few days. I'm wondering if it's the same thing. Maybe a leaf has gotten folded up in the middle and is getting caught.

I'm certainly overzealous with my fertilizer...maybe it was too much too soon. Or that late freeze we had. The rest of the stems are throwing up leaves like crazy though.

cincinnana
05-04-2017, 09:02 PM
This happens to me too on a few of my plants.
The leaves get stuck/choked in the Pstem and cannot push out.
For me it only happens in the spring once I take the plants outside.

This happens to flowers also, it is called a choke.
Sometimes they pop out the side of the stem if the pressure gets too much and just keep growing.

Here are some pics of mine and this is what I do.

My chokes (https://www.flickr.com/gp/hostafarian/2hP515)
Another choke (https://www.flickr.com/gp/hostafarian/30961c)

Tytaylor77
05-04-2017, 10:17 PM
This happens to me too on a few of my plants.
The leaves get stuck/choked in the Pstem and cannot push out.
For me it only happens in the spring once I take the plants outside.

This happens to flowers also, it is called a choke.
Sometimes they pop out the side of the stem if the pressure gets too much and just keep growing.

Here are some pics of mine and this is what I do.

My chokes (https://www.flickr.com/gp/hostafarian/2hP515)
Another choke (https://www.flickr.com/gp/hostafarian/30961c)


Looking at the 2nd link, now I'm calling you the banana surgeon! Haha.

They can build pressure up in there too! I've cut tops of pstem early spring and they instantly push up 2-3" out the top. Now that's growing fast!

cincinnana
05-05-2017, 05:42 AM
They can build pressure up in there too! I've cut tops of pstem early spring and they instantly push up 2-3" out the top. Now that's growing fast!

In Texas ain't that called a Gusher?:nanadrink:

SonnyCrockett
05-05-2017, 09:39 AM
This happens to me too on a few of my plants.
The leaves get stuck/choked in the Pstem and cannot push out.
For me it only happens in the spring once I take the plants outside.

This happens to flowers also, it is called a choke.
Sometimes they pop out the side of the stem if the pressure gets too much and just keep growing.

Here are some pics of mine and this is what I do.

My chokes (https://www.flickr.com/gp/hostafarian/2hP515)
Another choke (https://www.flickr.com/gp/hostafarian/30961c)

Nice pics of the chokes. Thanks for sharing. I had a small Nam Wah that I thought was dead blow out the side of the stem about 2/3rds of the way up.

cincinnana
05-05-2017, 09:08 PM
Nice pics of the chokes. Thanks for sharing. I had a small Nam Wah that I thought was dead blow out the side of the stem about 2/3rds of the way up.

I have a few a year that do it in the spring.......now I just cut the pstem in half if I suspect a choke situation...ARG!!!:08:

SonnyCrockett
05-05-2017, 09:11 PM
That's what I ended up doing to one of my Raja Puri stems. But the stem I cut back didn't do anything. The pups grew like crazy though.

Stonecutter
05-07-2017, 10:04 AM
You should consider this when planting corms from someone else's patch. This is how to prevent spread of plant diseases. And it will certainly kill root rot fungus.

One should always practice safe se.... errrr .... I mean protect you banana.

I use bleach in water reservoirs that may hold water for a week or more for watering plants to keep it from going sour, kill pythium and such. But I use it in eye droppers as in 10 drops per 5 gallons or so. Very dilute solution like that won't harm plants.

But I don't recommend doing this unless you are familiar with the procedure. Also that is MY dilution rate!! others may think to use a different dilution for different needs.

edwmax
05-07-2017, 11:35 AM
I use bleach in water reservoirs that may hold water for a week or more for watering plants to keep it from going sour, kill pythium and such. But I use it in eye droppers as in 10 drops per 5 gallons or so. Very dilute solution like that won't harm plants.

But I don't recommend doing this unless you are familiar with the procedure. Also that is MY dilution rate!! others may think to use a different dilution for different needs.

At 2 drops per gal is approximately 26 ppm. ... The recommended rate to disinfect 'drinking water' is 6 to 12 drops per gal. That is approx. 79 to 158 ppm. ... Open air containers over time (few hours) the chlorine will dissipate and the water will have no chlorine taste or 'free chlorine' to kill bacteria. Chlorinated drinking water (aka: city water) should not hurt plants as this is used all the time to water plants in the city. ... A simple test for free Chlorine is taste or smell. ... You have a lot of room to increase the chlorine concentration if needed to maintain 'free chlorine'.


The concentration I used above is 2 TBs to 1/4 cup of bleach per gallon of water and I have used household bleach straight. Before someone gets their panties in a wad, household bleach is only 8.26% (82,600 ppm) or less bleach. At these concentrations the corms were only treated for 2 or 3 mins then rinsed clean and this may be done 2 or 3 times.

Stonecutter
05-07-2017, 03:06 PM
The only time I use it is in an indoor closed rez feeding plants, added either when they start to smell or when I go somewhere for a week in hydro for tomatoes. It works well for that.

Of course for sanitizing purposes you would use a higher concentration for a quick wash on something as strong as a banana corm.

edwmax
05-07-2017, 04:15 PM
At 2 drops per gal is approximately 26 ppm. ... The recommended rate to disinfect 'drinking water' is 6 to 12 drops per gal. That is approx. 79 to 158 ppm. ... Open air containers over time (few hours) the chlorine will dissipate and the water will have no chlorine taste or 'free chlorine' to kill bacteria. Chlorinated drinking water (aka: city water) should not hurt plants as this is used all the time to water plants in the city. ... A simple test for free Chlorine is taste or smell. ... You have a lot of room to increase the chlorine concentration if needed to maintain 'free chlorine'.


...

My math is off because I didn't correct for the concentration of 8.25% bleach. The correct chlorine contents are:
2 drops per gal => 26 ppm x .0825 (8.25% bleach)= 2.145 ppm of chlorine

EPA emergency chlorination of drinking water:
6 drops per gal => 79 ppm X .0825 = 6.5 ppm of chlorine
to
12 drops per gal => 158 ppm X .0825 = 13.0 ppm of chlorine

As a note, due to mineral & organic content of well water, it usually takes 10 ppm (+/-) of chlorine (chlorine load) to neutralize this content before 'free chlorine' can result.


Drinking water chlorine content is low compared to water/chlorine solutions for general disinfection & cleaning starting at about 200 ppm.

edwmax
05-07-2017, 04:27 PM
The only time I use it is in an indoor closed rez feeding plants, added either when they start to smell or when I go somewhere for a week in hydro for tomatoes. It works well for that.

Of course for sanitizing purposes you would use a higher concentration for a quick wash on something as strong as a banana corm.

I understand ... You're working to keep algae growth down and piping clean in the presents of system fertilizer. If the concentrations are working for you, I wouldn't recommend changing anything. ... However, your comment does demonstrate one practical agricultural use of bleach.

sputinc7
05-08-2017, 11:20 PM
As for the stems not growing, every time I use a product with Potassium sulfate in it, my plants stop growing altogether for a few days to a few weeks. I used organic tomato fertilizer a while back and everything stopped on all my plants except the big mat of Brazilians, but after a few weeks all are doing ok now. Smaller plants seem much more susceptible to this.

Tytaylor77
05-09-2017, 10:40 PM
As for the stems not growing, every time I use a product with Potassium sulfate in it, my plants stop growing altogether for a few days to a few weeks. I used organic tomato fertilizer a while back and everything stopped on all my plants except the big mat of Brazilians, but after a few weeks all are doing ok now. Smaller plants seem much more susceptible to this.

I agree on young plants. I use only organic on my small stuff. The 3'+ (Depending on variety) get chemical fert to supplement.

SonnyCrockett
05-20-2017, 07:46 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61597&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61597)

Should I keep cutting down a little at a time, until a good leaf shows? Or just cut it in half? Not sure what to do about this.

Two of the other chokes have resolved themselves, but this and one other stem are still not moving.

cincinnana
05-20-2017, 08:18 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61597&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61597)

Should I keep cutting down a little at a time, until a good leaf shows? Or just cut it in half? Not sure what to do about this.

Two of the other chokes have resolved themselves, but this and one other stem are still not moving.

The brown indicates dead tissue...you will need to cut further down.
There might be a slight bulge where the stem is stuck, it is there you cut.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4182/34581119592_712c4059ac.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UFPh4S)
The bulge (https://flic.kr/p/UFPh4S) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/), on Flickr
I just did this one yesterday.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/33900895014_4166bda73c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TDGWZU)
The choke (https://flic.kr/p/TDGWZU) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/),
on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/34611767091_bd09419429.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UJwmv2)
The alien lifeform (https://flic.kr/p/UJwmv2) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/), on Flickr

SonnyCrockett
05-22-2017, 09:38 AM
The brown indicates dead tissue...you will need to cut further down.
There might be a slight bulge where the stem is stuck, it is there you cut.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4182/34581119592_712c4059ac.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UFPh4S)
The bulge (https://flic.kr/p/UFPh4S) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/), on Flickr
I just did this one yesterday.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/33900895014_4166bda73c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TDGWZU)
The choke (https://flic.kr/p/TDGWZU) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/),
on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/34611767091_bd09419429.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UJwmv2)
The alien lifeform (https://flic.kr/p/UJwmv2) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/), on Flickr

I've looked on the stems that aren't growing and I don't see any bulges. Cut down a little further, but don't see any live tissue in the middle. Mostly brown mush in the center. I'll keep cutting back after work today and see if I can get to something living. If they choke long enough, do they just die back to the ground?

Island Brah
05-22-2017, 09:44 AM
The brown indicates dead tissue...you will need to cut further down.
There might be a slight bulge where the stem is stuck, it is there you cut.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4182/34581119592_712c4059ac.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UFPh4S)
The bulge (https://flic.kr/p/UFPh4S) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/), on Flickr
I just did this one yesterday.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/33900895014_4166bda73c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TDGWZU)
The choke (https://flic.kr/p/TDGWZU) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/),
on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/34611767091_bd09419429.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UJwmv2)
The alien lifeform (https://flic.kr/p/UJwmv2) by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/), on Flickr

Cinci, that's wicked!

Do you use Hostafarian as your name on other forums? I've seen that name before lol

cincinnana
05-22-2017, 07:08 PM
I've looked on the stems that aren't growing and I don't see any bulges. Cut down a little further, but don't see any live tissue in the middle. Mostly brown mush in the center. I'll keep cutting back after work today and see if I can get to something living. If they choke long enough, do they just die back to the ground?

Short answer is yes.....but.

Could be it is just dead to the corm......but all is not lost.

Give the plant some time and some pups will pop up.

This could be you in a couple of months.
.https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/402/18803609520_15c1f87b28.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uDBq19)
Old fruited corm in center of container with seven pups (https://flic.kr/p/uDBq19)
by
Hostafarian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hostafarian/),
on Flickr

SonnyCrockett
05-22-2017, 07:24 PM
I think with this one, the original stem was the one that died back. But it's got several full-sized and mid-sized pups already, so no problem in the long-term. Just wanted to save as many stems as I could.

cincinnana
05-27-2017, 06:11 PM
I think with this one, the original stem was the one that died back. But it's got several full-sized and mid-sized pups already, so no problem in the long-term. Just wanted to save as many stems as I could.

So did it work????:08:

I had to lop a couple more in half yesterday because they showed signs of being stuck......and they were.
All the spring rain and cool weather is not good for plants that are not growing.

SonnyCrockett
05-30-2017, 10:52 AM
I didn't find any leaves that were stuck like yours were. I was able to cut back to part of the stem that was not rotten, but not sure if it will do anything but become rotten soon.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61738&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61738)

The other stem that is not really growing has a center leaf that just isn't opening up. One side of the leaf must have burned off, but the other half of the leaf is still curled up in the middle. It's been like that for weeks. I've tried to cut back around the center leaf and manually unroll some of it, so photosynthesis can keep it moving, but no luck so far.

Most of my other stems are throwing out huge leaves like crazy right now.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61739&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61739)