View Full Version : high temperature banana growing habits
damaclese
06-01-2008, 07:18 AM
OK this is going to be a thread thats mostly about my observations on growing Bananas in high temperature climates IE. Desert condition specifically Las Vegas Nevada I'm growing at this point Williams hybrid and ice cream as well as ense ventricosum (in germination at this time) the Williams is 3 moths old and the temps have been in the low 80 for the first moth growth was rapid at Thea's temps putting approximately one new leaf per 3 days from that time forward temps have been in the high 90 to a 3 day period of 115 deg. fh the average humidity has been a consistent 20% growth stopped or was nil during the 115 days also the bananas seem to become bound up easily requiring the carefully removal of all old and dead leafs and the easing of the tops of the stocks were the leafs exist the older m stem
water consumptions has been 2 liters of water per plant per day sun exposer has been limited to 6 hr a day early morning full sun then shade rest of day
plants aper healthy but have sustained some sunburn approx. 30% in the early weeks of this project
the newest leafs are healthier and look to be thickening (probably in response to the harsh climate IE sun) the Williams has grown 4" and the two ice Cream have grown 6" the creams are approximately 1 moth old however exact age is unknown they aper to Handel the sun and heat better with far less burning and faster growth with leaf growth approximately 1 leaf ever 2 days
Williams leafs fold down during the high part of the day were as the Ice creams do not fold their leafs
all plants are on a supplement of vigro time release palm food 8-6-8 feed at 50% the recommended rate every 30 days all are planted in pots and have a sandy Lome type of soil with a 6.0 Ph water is local tap high in dissolved salts with a Ph of 5.2 at the time of testing well thats this months observation probably a bit boring but i think this is a some what unique histology and hopefully will lead to some conclusive programs for tropical growing in desert conditions and possibly some hybridization for Hardy more drought tolerant plants pleas feel free to ask questions and point out any thing good or bad that you think i should do or stop doing id really love for every one to help with this project
and if we do come up with any significant drought tolerant Bananas all defiantly be more then happy to provide pups in one way or the other to people as i can after all this is about growing for the love of Agro. and not for profit
hydroid
06-01-2008, 07:54 AM
Hi damaclese;
I live in zone 9 and was given some Williams bananas and they have been very hardy. I have Basjoo, Saba, Ornata, Red, and a few local hand me downs (Orinocos maybe?).
My ground must be perfect for those Williams because I already have fruit and only protected them by putting straw around the base of the plants this past winter. They are pupping like crazy. I think I read somewhere that there is an optimum growing temperature and I notice that when it gets really hot here I notice more growth during the night and early morning (ie when I get up).
I'm waiting on those Sabas to blast off, my 2 yr. olds are just starting to pass up my Orinocos, but not a single pup on them yet.
But for now, the Williams has been most impressive.
Your milage may vary, hope this helps.
hydroid
damaclese
06-01-2008, 08:00 AM
Hi damaclese;
I live in zone 9 and was given some Williams bananas and they have been very hardy. I have Basjoo, Saba, Ornata, Red, and a few local hand me downs (Orinocos maybe?).
My ground must be perfect for those Williams because I already have fruit and only protected them by putting straw around the base of the plants this past winter. They are pupping like crazy. I think I read somewhere that there is an optimum growing temperature and I notice that when it gets really hot here I notice more growth during the night and early morning (ie when I get up).
I'm waiting on those Sabas to blast off, my 2 yr. olds are just starting to pass up my Orinocos, but not a single pup on them yet.
But for now, the Williams has been most impressive.
Your milage may vary, hope this helps.
hydroid
defiantly i have observed that the plants do grow during the night iv not observed this trait in any other plants ever do you think its unique to bananas or is it that they grow so fast its just obvious and or is this a response to the heat of the day? or a naturally occurring trait
hydroid
06-01-2008, 09:10 AM
damaclese;
I forgot to say that my area is not arrid like yours, (just the opposite) as a matter of fact, I have learned to plant on my highest ground or next ditches to promote drainage of standing water. Please know that I'm far from a Banana Guru, only a simple grasshopper. This is my second year of growing Bananas and it has been great. Lots of great folks on this Forum, and very helpful.
My observations have been that my best growth was in Sept. and Oct. as the temps started cooling off.
It could be that Bananas are kinda like us, I don't like the cold or extreme heat, he he.
Your milage may vary
hydroid
lorax
06-01-2008, 09:18 AM
Damaclese - I'd say it's a normal trait for the Zingiberales - my Cannas and Gingers also grow more at night.
Chironex
06-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Hey Pauly, so glad you started this thread. We can reference it for our research. It stands to reason that if we can keep them growing, eventually, a sport might develop that will have more heat/humidity tolerant characteristics. The only question is how many years will we have to wait....could be years, could be a few generations. I have no idea.
Has anyone heard of genome research on bananas? What traits does Mysore have that make it most heat tolerant? Is there a banana that is more drought resistant? Is there a banana that prefers more alkaline soil types like we have in LV? Can bananas be grafted? Just some thoughts that might help in our research.
It might be a good idea to plant next to a large shade tree in LV to offer some protection and increase localized humidity by decreasing evaporation in the immediate area.
Thinking out loud here, but comments are welcomed.
damaclese
06-01-2008, 09:26 AM
Damaclese - I'd say it's a normal trait for the Zingiberales - my Cannas and Gingers also grow more at night.
hmm all have to observe my Cannes more closely as for my ginger after 3 moths they still haven't come up although i did a Little peaky and i know they are still viable it just the common ginger x Pacifica
Chironex
06-01-2008, 10:17 AM
I did more looking into the MGIS database and found that there is a variety called 'Cuba' TRY0126 that is heat, drought and wind tolerant. Don't know if it has edible fruit, but it has a lot of the qualities we are looking for. Here's the link: http://195.220.148.3:8013/MGIS_2/Tk.exe$Query?DataSource=MGIS_2&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.DROUGHT-OP==&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.DROUGHT=2&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM-OP==&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM=TRY0126&Output=/MGIS_2/Evaluation_ABiotic.htm&ACCESSION.IDNUM-OP==&ACCESSION.IDNUM=TRY0126&MapRes=8
damaclese
06-01-2008, 02:18 PM
I did more looking into the MGIS database and found that there is a variety called 'Cuba' TRY0126 that is heat, drought and wind tolerant. Don't know if it has edible fruit, but it has a lot of the qualities we are looking for. Here's the link: http://195.220.148.3:8013/MGIS_2/Tk.exe$Query?DataSource=MGIS_2&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.DROUGHT-OP==&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.DROUGHT=2&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM-OP==&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM=TRY0126&Output=/MGIS_2/Evaluation_ABiotic.htm&ACCESSION.IDNUM-OP==&ACCESSION.IDNUM=TRY0126&MapRes=8
i checked it out i don't really understand their classifications
damaclese
06-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Hey Pauly, so glad you started this thread. We can reference it for our research. It stands to reason that if we can keep them growing, eventually, a sport might develop that will have more heat/humidity tolerant characteristics. The only question is how many years will we have to wait....could be years, could be a few generations. I have no idea.
Has anyone heard of genome research on bananas? What traits does Mysore have that make it most heat tolerant? Is there a banana that is more drought resistant? Is there a banana that prefers more alkaline soil types like we have in LV? Can bananas be grafted? Just some thoughts that might help in our research.
It might be a good idea to plant next to a large shade tree in LV to offer some protection and increase localized humidity by decreasing evaporation in the immediate area.
Thinking out loud here, but comments are welcomed. ya know an odd thing hapind this morning one of my ice cream bananas was all bound up and insid of the leaf ther was three other lefs growing and one is of a most paculur shape and size is this a posibal ganetic X
Chironex
06-01-2008, 04:56 PM
I'm not sure Pauly, could it be a flag leaf and flower on the way?
To access the database go to "Abiotic Stress". The select the characteristic that you want, such as High Temperature. I started at "low or no visible signof susceptibility" and then click on "submit query." It returns those bananas fitting in that category. If you don't get a hit, then go back and move up the scale to "low" or "low to intermediate" and so on. Once you find some hits, then you can add other characteristics to whittle down the list. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy to use.
damaclese
06-02-2008, 07:25 AM
I'm not sure Pauly, could it be a flag leaf and flower on the way?
To access the database go to "Abiotic Stress". The select the characteristic that you want, such as High Temperature. I started at "low or no visible signof susceptibility" and then click on "submit query." It returns those bananas fitting in that category. If you don't get a hit, then go back and move up the scale to "low" or "low to intermediate" and so on. Once you find some hits, then you can add other characteristics to whittle down the list. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy to use.
it sorta looks like a flag leaf but this plants only mabe 3 or 4 moths old so how could that be and it dosnt have enufe leafs to saport fruit talk about spesas that fruit fast hehehe time will tell
gadget
06-02-2008, 03:58 PM
I will help your study.
I am growing many naners many different ways. Some in pots, some in afternoon shade, some in full sun. I also am using different water delivery systems, drip system, hand water, flood basin. I’ll start putting a time line together of my bananas and record how they do threw the summer.
gadget
Chironex
06-03-2008, 09:24 AM
Gadget, That's great! I know that you are perhaps even hotter there than Las Vegas, so this will really be a benefit for all.
I look forward to seeing your log and watching the progress.
damaclese
06-03-2008, 08:18 PM
hey guys one of my icecreams just poped out this hugh 14" long leaf its only 16" tall at this point i was truely amazed then i proptly left it out in the sun for an exsta 1hr and burnt part of the new leaf not bad maby 5% all get a pic soon promis
some one told me the icecreams are vary heat talirint thats why i got them and im starting to think mabe there right its 100deg fr today
Velutina
06-04-2008, 09:45 PM
hey guys one of my icecreams just poped out this hugh 14" long leaf its only 16" tall at this point i was truely amazed then i proptly left it out in the sun for an exsta 1hr and burnt part of the new leaf not bad maby 5% all get a pic soon promis
some one told me the icecreams are vary heat talirint thats why i got them and im starting to think mabe there right its 100deg fr today
hey guys one of my icecreams just poped out this hugh 14" long leaf its only 16" tall at this point i was truely amazed then i proptly left it out in the sun for an exsta 1hr and burnt part of the new leaf not bad maby 5% all get a pic soon promis
some one told me the icecreams are vary heat talirint thats why i got them and im starting to think mabe there right its 100deg fr today
Thats some great news :2208:
I've been reading up on palms that do well in vegas. There are people that try to grow species that are borderline for the zone, but are able to do it successfully using a few tricks. Some good tips I picked up which I think can be applied to bananas.
- Be sure to ammend the soil. Vegas soil can be high in boron, which can effect the palms (perhaps bananas too, not sure)
- Use drip irrigation on a timer so the soil around the plant remains moist.
- Have a west sun shield. Plant trees to the west of the plants. I guess the late afternoon/evening sun can be quite brutal on some plants.
- plant near a water feature such as a pond or pool to help with humidity.
- Use wind shields (ie trees) to block the hot, drying winds common in Vegas.
- and like already mentioned many times, plant in a location that gets partial sun to shade during the hottest parts of the days.
damaclese
06-05-2008, 09:29 AM
yes doing all that already its still kinda iffy they bananas are growing but they get burnt easily even in sun thats only hitting them from 6 until 11 which really isn't enough sun some times i go out and site them in the sun for 15 mints here and there to let them get more then i promptly put them back in the shade the do a bit better when they get more but not sit in it all day they are all still vary young and i can tell that they are starting to adapt by putting on thicker leafs
they Williams is doing the best but its about 2 months older then the Ice Creams. o well i new it was going to be a bit hard but I'm learning allot
I'm thinking about moving them to this spot i have thats on an east facing wall were theres a house thats only 25 ft away it only gets sun from 8 until 12 not allot its sorta one of those places that nothing grows that well in do to the limited sun exposure i wish i had a place with filtered shade but all have to artificially create that if its going to happen its so frustrating to live were the sun is so brutal you cant let it get on any thing for more then 15 mints after 12 even in AZ they don't have as bad a time its the altitude I'm at 3000 ish 2500 maybe i don't remember for sure I'm just going to have to work harder and build that GH OK now I'm just whining sorry but as i said I'm a bit frustrated no leaf makes it for more then a few days before its damaged in some way Burt riped or just broking off from the wind its mainly my back yard its like a wind tunnel they back of my house its on a hill with the downward Sid going away from the house its been cut and a 12ft retaining wall put in place to keep my yard from failing in to the back nabours but it raises the winds the nabour behind doesn't get a bit of wind
but that bad to as nothing will grow in his firnes of a back yard i know lets string shade cloth over the intier city lol
damaclese
06-05-2008, 09:43 AM
i forgot Micro farmer lives in the Central valley of ca he said that he doesn't have a bit of tribal his climate and ares are smaller but i find it hard to believe the only thing that i can tell that differs is the altitude so logic tells me they have to be in the shade so there another piece of the puzzle we have to not only develop heat tolerant plants but that like low humidity, intense sun, altitudes above 3000 ft and high frequent winds of 40mph oARGGGGGGGGGGGG
Velutina
06-05-2008, 12:01 PM
And the answer to every single problem we have thought of..... greenhouse. I'm convinced this is the way to be successful growing bananas in Las Vegas. Now to determine the best setup for that climate.
Chironex
06-05-2008, 01:31 PM
We shall overcome and prevail. Of course it might take us some time, but hey, it'll be fun. I am studying tissue culture now so that we can put some real meat into our efforts. It might take me awhile to get my arms around this subject, but I think it will benefit us in the long run.
By the way, I got a line on some Mysore and Monthan, plus some others that are supposedly heat and drought tolerant, edible bananas. When I get out there, I will have them shipped to me. Then we can get really put our heads together and find what works and what doesn't. Can't wait to begin!!!
Oh, and I am also looking into growing black bamboo as a wind/sunscreen. I have several seeds and just got some seedlings going, too.
damaclese
06-05-2008, 01:52 PM
We shall overcome and prevail. Of course it might take us some time, but hey, it'll be fun. I am studying tissue culture now so that we can put some real meat into our efforts. It might take me awhile to get my arms around this subject, but I think it will benefit us in the long run.
By the way, I got a line on some Mysore and Monthan, plus some others that are supposedly heat and drought tolerant, edible bananas. When I get out there, I will have them shipped to me. Then we can get really put our heads together and find what works and what doesn't. Can't wait to begin!!!
Oh, and I am also looking into growing black bamboo as a wind/sunscreen. I have several seeds and just got some seedlings going, too. wow cool i was going to order some black banboo be carfull only plant it in pots that u can bary and leav the lip of the tub at least 3"
above the soil it runs like you cant beleve its considers invasiv im 38 states:2750:
gadget
06-05-2008, 02:18 PM
Well I started my time line. What is the purpose or goal of this?
Is it to find a banana that does well and distribute the offspring?
Is it General knowledge on how to successfully grow bananas in the desert?
Or do you want just a fun time line
Or how bananas react and deal with the dry hot weather
:2741:
gadget
Velutina
06-05-2008, 02:35 PM
We shall overcome and prevail. Of course it might take us some time, but hey, it'll be fun. I am studying tissue culture now so that we can put some real meat into our efforts. It might take me awhile to get my arms around this subject, but I think it will benefit us in the long run.
By the way, I got a line on some Mysore and Monthan, plus some others that are supposedly heat and drought tolerant, edible bananas. When I get out there, I will have them shipped to me. Then we can get really put our heads together and find what works and what doesn't. Can't wait to begin!!!
Oh, and I am also looking into growing black bamboo as a wind/sunscreen. I have several seeds and just got some seedlings going, too.
Tissue culturing will just get you clones of the parent plant. What we really need to figure out is how to insert genes into the banana genome. Find the gene that gives M. basjoo resistance to cold and insert it in other banana species. It might even be possible to find some sort of "heat tolerance" gene from another type of plant such as a palm. There are plenty of strategies used by plants that may be as simple as expressing a certain protein. We are talking millions of dollars worth of equiptment and many years to pull something like that off though. Easier way is to make hybrids by simple cross pollination and hope for the best. Getting two plants to flower within a week of each other (in Vegas)... going to be tricky.
They sell lots of types of bamboo in the nurseries in Vegas, but I never did see any growing in yards (and I was looking). I wonder how it does. I have been growing yellow-groove bamboo here in Salt Lake and it does amazing! :dreadlocksnaner:
damaclese
06-05-2008, 06:17 PM
Adam thers a hous just a cupal of blocks from me with some bambo growing in it but i have to agre iv not seen alot and i lony notesed this bimbo today when i was out doing my bike ride over at the wetlands park
Chironex
06-05-2008, 10:01 PM
Well, so much to consider. Ok, I want to work on development of a hybrid that takes heat tolerance as well as drought tolerance and crummy soil tolerance into account. So far Mysore and Monthan seem to be the two leading candidates, but there are others. I think before we develop a timeline, we should all get our heads together and determine what goals we have. I am still going to learn tissue culture in case we come up with something that we want to reproduce from limited stock.
As to the Black Bamboo, I have 5 rhizomes of it now. So we will have plenty of that! I also have several seeds for bamboo of various species to try. Some are clumping and some are running, so we will see which works best for our needs.
Thanks for setting me straight on understanding what TC is, and is not. Shows how much I know about it at the present time, but I assure you that I will know a lot more in a few months. I spoke with Gabe about it too. I hope we can draw upon the experts to make this project both fun and rewarding.
Keep the faith, we are going to do this!
Chironex
06-05-2008, 10:07 PM
wow cool i was going to order some black banboo be carfull only plant it in pots that u can bary and leav the lip of the tub at least 3"
above the soil it runs like you cant beleve its considers invasiv im 38 states:2750:
Paully, The black bamboo I got is the clumping variety, so we will be ok. I forgot to mention that.
damaclese
06-06-2008, 08:43 AM
Pauly, The black bamboo I got is the clumping variety, so we will be OK. I forgot to mention that.
its not Bamboo Nagra? (extremely invasive) which i thought was the only black species hmm whats the botanical name?
I'm starting to feel that this is are own private thread!
damaclese
06-06-2008, 08:52 AM
Well I started my time line. What is the purpose or goal of this?
Is it to find a banana that does well and distribute the offspring?
Is it General knowledge on how to successfully grow bananas in the desert?
Or do you want just a fun time line
Or how bananas react and deal with the dry hot weather
:2741:
gadget
e all of the above
Chironex
06-06-2008, 11:26 AM
I have rhysomes of Phyllostchys nigra, which is the running type, Bambusa lako (Timor Black) which is a clumping type and Giganttochloa atroviolacea, also a clumping type. Ordered Black Asper too which is Dendrocalamus asper betung hitam. It is also a clumping type that gets very tall.
Also have seeds for 5-10 other bamboos that are predominately clumping types. So we should have lots of fun with them.
damaclese
06-06-2008, 04:04 PM
I have rhysomes of Phyllostchys nigra, which is the running type, Bambusa lako (Timor Black) which is a clumping type and Giganttochloa atroviolacea, also a clumping type. Ordered Black Asper too which is Dendrocalamus asper betung hitam. It is also a clumping type that gets very tall.
Also have seeds for 5-10 other bamboos that are predominately clumping types. So we should have lots of fun with them.
Any pics im familure with the Phyllostchys Nigra but not the others ?
Velutina
06-06-2008, 05:36 PM
Most bamboos won't like the climate in Vegas. There are a few that are claimed to do fairly well. Those include Bambusa glaucescens, Bambusa multiplex riviereorum, and Bambusa oldhamii (giant timber bamboo). All are clumping. Or so says a book I have.
Probably a topic for another thread (or site), but what are you two thinking about palms? My list of suitable palms is...Washingtonia filifera, W. robusta, Phoenix dactylifera, P. canariensis, Brahea armata, B. clara, Sabal uresana, Trachycarpus fortunei, Chamaerops humilis, and Butia capitata. Possibly Bismarckia and Queen palm, but they are borderline.
lorax
06-06-2008, 06:37 PM
P. canariensis is really water-intensive in desert climates.
Chironex
06-06-2008, 07:24 PM
I will post the stock pics. None planted yet, except the P. nigra that I just put in a 5 gal container today.
damaclese
06-06-2008, 08:41 PM
Most bamboos won't like the climate in Vegas. There are a few that are claimed to do fairly well. Those include Bambusa glaucescens, Bambusa multiplex riviereorum, and Bambusa oldhamii (giant timber bamboo). All are clumping. Or so says a book I have.
Probably a topic for another thread (or site), but what are you two thinking about palms? My list of suitable palms is...Washingtonia filifera, W. robusta, Phoenix dactylifera, P. canariensis, Brahea armata, B. clara, Sabal uresana, Trachycarpus fortunei, Chamaerops humilis, and Butia capitata. Possibly Bismarckia and Queen palm, but they are borderline.
i don't think either of you will have any tubal finding palms to grow in Vegas the queen palm dos vary well here i know i have one Chamaerops humilis (Mediterranean Fan Palm Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana (king palm) Brahea Armata (Blue Hesper Palm) Brahea Edulis (Guadalupe Palm) Butia Capitata (Pindo/Jelly Palm) Cycas Revoluta (Sago Palm) Neodypsis Decaryii (Triangle Palm) Phoenix canariensis (Canary Island Date Palm the most exspesiv Palm in Vegas) a mature specimen could run u over a 1000$ Phoenix Reclinata (Reclinata Palm) Phoenix Roebelenii (Pygmy Date Palm) rather exspesiv here Trachycarpus Fortunei
(Windmill Palm) Phoenix Dactylifera (Date Palm) that should get you started most do quite well here there are defiantly other that you could try but those are the one you see all over Vegas pleas don't think I'm all that with palms i had to look most of thees up because I'm not one of those people that knows all the scientific names I'm not all that interested common names are good enough for me thats why i never know what you all are talking about until i look them up i suddenly realized i put some in that you did o well I'm not going to edit it now to much work
damaclese
06-07-2008, 01:27 AM
OK I'm going to tell you all a Little something about my self 1 I'm sum what forgetful now you may ask your self what this has to do with growing bananas in the desert well all tell you last Saturday i decided to start my Ventricosum
and some white Cannes so i took out to clear glass jars with lids and put the seeds in them fill them with Ro water and set them out Side in the shade as the temps were around 85 do to a Werther front that had moved in and promptly forgot about them until Monday when the temps had risen to 90s when i remembered then they had been setting in the sun for some time and the water was quite hot i don't know exactly how hot but i would guess around 110 well i thought hell i cooked my seed but i know how tough banana and Canne seeds can be so i decided to plant them any way so i got the Jiff germination station out put the seeds in and placed the hole thing in the room i keep my orchids in its some what bright and warm around 80 that was on Monday well today is Friday and low and behold i have one Canna and one banana that have sprouted not so much that they have leafs but i can see parts of the white roots probably do to the fact the seed are upside down so the roots cam out of the top of the pot and are reburying them selves no i don't want to brag because it was all by accident but i think thats got to be a worlds record
so setting banana seeds in vary warm water mite be a trick to germinating them at leas ventricosum and lorx told me to put my canna seeds in to water that had just boild untill i hear them pop he said the would grow in just a few days what do you all think dumb but lucke a
lorax
06-07-2008, 07:43 AM
Not dumb luck at all when you think about the conditions under which bananas and cannas would naturally germinate. It gets bloody hot here, but moist as well, so the trick is often to really heat the seeds in a watery environment. What you did was pretty much bleedin' perfect at least according to what we do down here for seeded musaceae germination.
Chironex
06-07-2008, 08:40 AM
WOW! That is really interesting. So, put them in real hot water (how hot) for a how long?
Curious, have any of the others sprouted?
Thanks for the tip.
damaclese
06-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Not dumb luck at all when you think about the conditions under which bananas and Cannas would naturally germinate. It gets bloody hot here, but moist as well, so the trick is often to really heat the seeds in a watery environment. What you did was pretty much bleedin' perfect at least according to what we do down here for seeded musaceae germination.
well i remember i think it was you that talked about putting canna seeds in really hot water thats why i decided to go ahead and plant them as of this Am the one Canna seed has put up its first tinny leafs do you think i should take it out of the jiffy station and pot it up or Waite a couple of more days the humidity is only 20% here and i don't want to loose them right off but i also don't what them to damp off and Scot the time thy were in the water was approx 55hr and the water was about Bath temp i should have measured the temp but o well I'm defiantly going to try this again the one ventricosum is not out of the ground yet
damaclese
06-07-2008, 08:57 AM
WOW! That is really interesting. So, put them in real hot water (how hot) for a how long?
Curious, have any of the others sprouted?
Thanks for the tip.
Scot i don't see any more sprouted yet but that doesn't mean that they haven't they mite be setting in the pots right side down so their roots are not showing like the first one but statistical speaking theres 20 ventricosum seed so at least 2 or 3 have to have sprouted
Scot i hope you are going to take some of thees i don't know what all do if all 20 grow
i don't have any place to put more then 3 or 4
Chironex
06-07-2008, 11:30 PM
Pauly, it's a good problem to have, we will figure out something. Maybe we will open a banana stand!!!! (just kidding - no way I am standing in a tent in that heat!!!) Maybe we will grow some and sell our overflow to the casinos....who knows?
damaclese
06-08-2008, 09:35 AM
Pauly, it's a good problem to have, we will figure out something. Maybe we will open a banana stand!!!! (just kidding - no way I am standing in a tent in that heat!!!) Maybe we will grow some and sell our overflow to the casinos....who knows?
well casinos are notoriously close minded and if it takes up space they defiantly will not go for it but they do like exotic high end stuff that they think makes them unique so maybe would could become there meager in town suppliers but lighting is always a problem in casinos and they rely on some pretty uneducated people to water and take care of this stuff not that theres not some really talented Agra experts working for them as one of are head members in the las Vegas Orchid society is a gardener for a casino its something to think about but i would think that the requirements would be at least a one to two acer green house and allot of contracts but one could start Small i guess and theres always the dreaded Clark County water district to deal with there not real big on water intensive Business and getting a permit for a well is vary difficult now there was a time when digging was just a mater of calling a drilling co but now there all sorts of paper work sorry I'm just thinking out loud it was suggested yesterday to me at my birthday party that i should find a Passion and start my own business as i find working for others vary difficult wow growing bananas in the desert for casinos i think this mite be something they will want mature but not to tall plants probably ones with lots of color and their going to want ones with flower not sure if they would want fruiting but i think that mite be cool to look at on there floors wed probably have to talk them in to that point theirs room for contracts to maintenance and we could rotate the plants in and out so they would stay healthy so weed need a good size truck lets talk about this more when you get here in July i think this could be something grate wow I'm really excited we could do some palms to i think the intermix would be fascinating and theirs also design services i have a asc. fa.. in fine arts and I'm currently dosing some consultancy for different Clients on there homes theirs another aspect and thats supplying Bananas for designers there are already about 15 florist that are supplying plants but most of the casinos have there own people for doing the set ups and such but we could change that the meager players here are vary over priced and if are over head was really low we could undercut them significantly and really retail on a say 10 ft tall Musa could be vary cheep and we take the hit for all cost associated with it all they have to do is pay and look at it not a bad deal for them sorta no strings
Chironex
06-08-2008, 11:22 AM
We will talk about this when I get there. It sure has some potential, especially since we would have the only bananas grown locally. Other would have to ship them in. Hmmmmm.......
damaclese
06-09-2008, 10:01 AM
update one of the ice creams has really zoomed ahead of the other its now almost 3 ft tall the other one is still looking like its struggling they are vary different as the tall one was vary fat to begin with and the other was rather tall and skinny the Williams wail looking vary dark green is still only 12 in tall but has nice leaf development all are still burning quit fast if i dint shad them allot particularly when a new leaf as just opined i have to shade it more until the leaf ages for about 3 days slow the largest one is quite light green in color despite heave applications of Vigrow palm food thinking about switching to a faster releasing higher nitrogen fertilizer any suggestions for toughening up the leafs?
Chironex
06-10-2008, 08:42 AM
After further research, here are the two most likely candidates for developing hybrids or sports for desert climates:
'Chandan ' TRY1036 (AAB) a.k.a. Poovan - a sub-species of Mysore (Mysore cv. 507)
Here is a link to the Evaluations to abiotic Stress: http://195.220.148.3:8013/MGIS_2/Tk.exe$Query?DataSource=MGIS_2&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.HIGHTEMP-OP==&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.HIGHTEMP=2&Output=/MGIS_2/Evaluation_ABiotic.htm&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM-OP==&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM=TRY0136&MapRes=8
'Cuban' TRY0126 (ABB) a.k.a. Jillegudam - a sub-species of Bontha
Link to its Evaluation to Abiotic stress: http://195.220.148.3:8013/MGIS_2/Tk.exe$Query?DataSource=MGIS_2&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.HIGHTEMP-OP==&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.HIGHTEMP=2&Output=/MGIS_2/Evaluation_ABiotic.htm&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM-OP==&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM=TRY0126&MapRes=8
As you will see, these show very low susceptibilities to heat and drought, wind and cold temps as well. There are also pics of these 2 and they appear to be fair fruit producers.
I could not find much information on 'Cuban' TRY0126 because of the familiar name of Cuban Red/Jamaican Red in all of the search engines.
If anyone has a source for TRY126 Chandan (or Poovan or Mysore cv 507) please let me know. This would seem to be the most likely starting point for our studies. Failing that, I will use the Mysore that we are getting already.
Velutina
06-10-2008, 05:31 PM
Great find! I'll keep an eye out for those.
Something interesting...
Las Vegas Delight Tomatoes (http://www.lasvegas-delight.com).
They grow tomatoes in a greenhouse in Vegas and are able to keep the thing at about 80F and high humidity. Absolute perfect environment for growing bananas.
"Cooling Challenge
"One of the major challenges of operating this type of facility is keeping the tomato crop cooled properly," according to Gerhart. "We use a high pressure fog system to do the cooling. The system adds humidity in the form of a mist, and as the water evaporates, it cools the air. That enables us to maintain 80° in here when it is 110 degrees outside. Ideally, our goal is 65-70°. We also can maintain a 65% humidity level, which is close to ideal for tomato plants."
"During the winter months, we use a tremendous amount of heat," Gerhart says. "Even when it is 60° outside, the plants are transpiring, giving off moisture. This raises the humidity level, which in turn lowers the air temperature and requires supplementary heat."
Velutina
06-10-2008, 06:04 PM
Interesting about the genetics on those two. From what i've seen, the varieties that do best with heat/drought are AAB and ABB. I'm still thinking Raja puri (AAB) and Orinoco (ABB) are probably the two best candidates. Both are very drought/heat tolerant AS WELL as cold-hardy. Since Vegas gets very cold, this trait should be important as well.
Chironex
06-10-2008, 11:13 PM
Adam, I noticed that too. I have a Raja Puri, so I didn't mention it. MGIS rates it in the next level up in heat-tolerance susceptibility as I recall. If you look at the facts on Mysore, it also has low susceptibility to cold. The more we have to work with, the better our chances is the way I see it.
I would like to find out if there is a correlation to cold/heat tolerance associated with leaf thickness, as Pauly suggested. I wonder what genetic switch creates that trait? If it could be found and bred through selective breeding, we may be onto something.
Always hopeful..............
Velutina
06-11-2008, 03:35 AM
I just ordered mysore, raja puri, orinoco, and itinerans from banana-tree. Others I already have are sikkimensis, daj giant, basjoo, Musella, ornata, velutina, violacea, E. glaucum, E. ventricosum, and zebrina. Now to find the "Cuba" variety....
Oh and i'll be looking for houses in Henderson in a few weeks... can't wait.
damaclese
06-11-2008, 07:40 AM
Adam, I noticed that too. I have a Raja Puri, so I didn't mention it. MGIS rates it in the next level up in heat-tolerance susceptibility as I recall. If you look at the facts on Mysore, it also has low susceptibility to cold. The more we have to work with, the better our chances is the way I see it.
I would like to find out if there is a correlation to cold/heat tolerance associated with leaf thickness, as Pauly suggested. I wonder what genetic switch creates that trait? If it could be found and bred through selective breeding, we may be onto something.
Always hopeful..............yes but thees bananas are sterile and you would have to genetically engineer them wouldn't you? the Willams has the thickest leaf in my gardin and burns the leas at this point the Ice creams are vary fragal but it took the W. sevral moths befor its leafs thikind up so im wachin them closly
Chironex
06-11-2008, 05:28 PM
Your observations on leaf thickening is a very good thing to know. It is nature's response to the environment and will prove helpful in our study.
What I mean is that by trying to find the pups that do better in the heat/arid climate, nature may produce some sports that have characteristics (i.e. leaf thickening, etc.) for heat tolerance. In this harsh environment, the sun may cause mutations to occur as the plants regenerate. Some may survive by "flipping the switch" to survive the intensity of the heat/dryness. These mutated pups can be TC'ed to make more and then choose the ones that show the ability to withstand more and more heat. I am not advanced enough in my TC study to determine whether there is a way to mix protoplasm of one with another to create hybrids. But I will continue to study and learn. There has to be a way to do this. If anyone has suggestions, please feel free. Short of learning and being able to perform micro-genetic DNA implantation and such, I am all ears. Perhaps we will have a member who knows someone to do this sort of thing, who knows.
Keep watching your bananas for any changes Pauly, everything we can learn puts us one step closer.
Velutina
06-11-2008, 07:39 PM
The likelyhood of a mutation occuring during asexual reproduction is pretty slim. I was thinking though that if a young plant (ie tissue culture) was exposed to mutagens (ie radiation), there would be a higher chance of mutations occuring. The cells in the apical meristem would need to be targeted. The chances of a mutation occuring that increases the heat/arid tolerance is pretty unlikely though. Probably not worth the effort.
A faster easier better way of doing this. Breed two plants that can create viable seeds. (ie two diploids). Sprout the seeds and select the ones that do best in the arid conditions. Raise those plants and continue sexual reproduction. Repeat over and over and hope for some good mutations. This would work no doubt, but it could take hundreds or thousands of generations.
The quickest way is genetic engineering. Find desired genes and splice them into the desired plant. This won't be happening without a lot of money.
The easiest way to find a banana that does well in Vegas....
build a greenhouse ;p
Chironex
06-11-2008, 10:21 PM
Ok, ok, I agree with you about the greenhouse, lol! I still want to experiment to see if there is something that can be done to develop a more heat tolerant banana. The journey is as interesting to me as the destination. If nothing else, I will learn a lot.
damaclese
06-12-2008, 10:36 AM
Your observations on leaf thickening is a very good thing to know. It is nature's response to the environment and will prove helpful in our study.
What I mean is that by trying to find the pups that do better in the heat/arid climate, nature may produce some sports that have characteristics (i.e. leaf thickening, etc.) for heat tolerance. In this harsh environment, the sun may cause mutations to occur as the plants regenerate. Some may survive by "flipping the switch" to survive the intensity of the heat/dryness. These mutated pups can be TC'ed to make more and then choose the ones that show the ability to withstand more and more heat. I am not advanced enough in my TC study to determine whether there is a way to mix protoplasm of one with another to create hybrids. But I will continue to study and learn. There has to be a way to do this. If anyone has suggestions, please feel free. Short of learning and being able to perform micro-genetic DNA implantation and such, I am all ears. Perhaps we will have a member who knows someone to do this sort of thing, who knows.
Keep watching your bananas for any changes Pauly, everything we can learn puts us one step closer. an interesting notation one of the things we have here in Vegas is that on the news every morning they tell what the UV index is and it tends to run quite high here for example todays UV index is 10 out of a possible 12 this could account for the high burn rate not the heat of the sun so this brings about an obvious question
what elements of the leaf protect from UV exposers (we are probably covering already prov-in ground here) and throw empirical testing one could determine which speasheas have the best resistants all bet and this is just a guess that for example the Mysore has a vary thick coting on the leafs that protect it which could allow be why its so drought tolerant perhaps this hypothesized coting also works to keep moisture in? so when we look at different desert speasheas on thing becomes apparent vary quickly most have thick waxy leafs and aboves adaptation to heat light and transpiration now baring that in mind remember that Musa is closely related to Palm's which defiantly have adaptations to desert condition so there mite be some of the same genes still present and we could look for signs of thees and exploit them to bring them forward in any Musa we want to what do you think? am i wrong on this or is it Worthy of consideration if i were a made scientist id simply take the Gene for thick leafs and plant it in to the genome of a Musa
damaclese
06-12-2008, 10:49 AM
Ok, ok, I agree with you about the greenhouse, lol! I still want to experiment to see if there is something that can be done to develop a more heat tolerant banana. The journey is as interesting to me as the destination. If nothing else, I will learn a lot.i should read more carefully i was just wighting a response to Adams MSG when it evaporated but then i read your Scot and so it was moot any way but i will say I'm apposed to any kind of Gene manipulation its not in the best interest of the planet and can lead to all sorts of complication not excluding accidentally introducing toxicities
Chironex
06-12-2008, 11:34 AM
The attack of the killer bananas! Rest easy my friend, genetic manipulation is far beyond my reach both scientifically as well as financially. I am merely suggesting that if the genome finds the genetic switch for heat tolerance in Mysore for example, perhaps we could find a way to select those with the switch and try to produce offspring that carry the trait. Selective breeding of some sort could produce a more heat resistant sport or hybrid. Don't know how it could be done yet, just thinking out loud. I bet that some of Darwins earliest experiments would seem folly to most too, or Edison, any of the greats - yet through trial and error, sometimes good things happened. So my spirits are undaunted. Besides, I just like the whole analytical learning experience, so what the heck, right?
damaclese
06-12-2008, 02:31 PM
The attack of the killer bananas! Rest easy my friend, genetic manipulation is far beyond my reach both scientifically as well as financially. I am merely suggesting that if the genome finds the genetic switch for heat tolerance in Mysore for example, perhaps we could find a way to select those with the switch and try to produce offspring that carry the trait. Selective breeding of some sort could produce a more heat resistant sport or hybrid. Don't know how it could be done yet, just thinking out loud. I bet that some of Darwin's earliest experiments would seem folly to most too, or Edison, any of the greats - yet through trial and error, sometimes good things happened. So my spirits are undaunted. Besides, I just like the whole analytical learning experience, so what the heck, right?Me to besides being artistic i also did vary well in science i was also think of another approach what if there were a type of nutrient that could be applied that mite help plants cope with higher temps and dryer soil maybe a trace element I'm going to go do some reading all post back what i find if any thing
damaclese
06-12-2008, 06:58 PM
ok i read this what do you think?
Dry season duration (consecutive months
with <40 mm [1.6 in] rainfall)
The ability of Musa spp. to survive for a given
length of time in the absence of rainfall is dependent
on the following factors:
soil type, structure, and drainage
shade level; transpiration requirements
mono-cropping vs. a diversified/
agroforestry system
pest and disease pressure
plant nutrition and soil fertility.
Because the plants can store a significant
amount of water within their pseudostems and
rhizomes, they can survive extended periods of
drought, although their growth will slow down
or cease under such conditions. In Hawai‘i’s rocky volcanic
soils, banana suffers significant drought stress and yield reductions
after only a few weeks without rain.
Since Musa balbisiana is considerably more drought hardy
than M. acuminata, increasing proportions of B in a
cultivar’s genome are correlated with increased drought
tolerance. In other words, cooking varieties such as ‘Saba’
(ABB) and ‘Bluggoe’ (‘Largo’ in Hawai‘i, ABB), can be
grown more successfully in dry, windy areas than many
other varieties. ‘Sucrier’ (AA), with much A in its genome,
is notably difficult to grow and rarely survives with low
moisture or humidity.
••
•
••
Mean annual temperature
26–28°C (79–82°F) is optimum for shooting (vegetative
growth of banana). 29–30°C (84–86°F) is optimum for
fruiting.
Mean maximum temperature of hottest month
35–37°C (95–99°F)
Mean minimum temperature of coldest month
–2–30°C (28–86°F)
Minimum temperature tolerated
The minimum temperature tolerated depends upon the
species. At 16°C (60°F) banana plant growth slows; at 10°C
(50°F), growth stops. Chilling damage and tissue necrosis
Typical mixed forest planting of banana
Velutina
06-13-2008, 11:38 PM
Here's an idea. Banana plants grown as ornamentals are often given part shade (up to 60% or more) to get better-looking leaves. I have some bananas growing in my greenhouse now that are putting out leaves pretty quick (1 per week at least). There is a tree above the greenhouse that gives the banana plants shade (90% plus during most of the day), but they are doing great! For fruit production, this might not be the best, but for the foliage it seems fine.
So for vegas...
Plant "Ailanthus altissima" (tree of heaven) arount the bananas. This tree is very tropical in appearance and grows like a weed. VERY fast growth. It will lose it's leaves in the winter months. It can be pruned to allow more light to the bananas. Might be worth a try. I choose this tree since not too many trees can grow as quickly to provide shade and it looks tropical.
damaclese
06-14-2008, 08:42 AM
Here's an idea. Banana plants grown as ornamentals are often given part shade (up to 60% or more) to get better-looking leaves. I have some bananas growing in my greenhouse now that are putting out leaves pretty quick (1 per week at least). There is a tree above the greenhouse that gives the banana plants shade (90% plus during most of the day), but they are doing great! For fruit production, this might not be the best, but for the foliage it seems fine.
So for vegas...
Plant "Ailanthus altissima" (tree of heaven) around the bananas. This tree is very tropical in appearance and grows like a weed. VERY fast growth. It will lose it's leaves in the winter months. It can be pruned to allow more light to the bananas. Might be worth a try. I choose this tree since not too many trees can grow as quickly to provide shade and it looks tropical.
i like your thinking but I'm not sure about this tree here i pasted this -
Tree-of-heaven is a prolific seed producer, grows rapidly, and can overrun native vegetation. Once established, it can quickly take over a site and form an impenetrable thicket. Ailanthus trees also produces toxins that prevent the establishment of other plant species. The root system is aggressive enough to cause damage to sewers and foundations.
smal property= damage to house
so i think you are on to something maybe just not this tree for me any way. thinking more along the lines of a persimmon I'm nuts about there fruit
Velutina
06-14-2008, 12:58 PM
I have a tree of heaven in my yard right now that came up on it's own (i didn't put it there). I cut it back every fall and it grows back to a beautiful 6-8' shrub the next year. It never gets a chance to seed before I cut it. It does have an interesting odor but for the easy care and tropical effect, I have enjoyed it. In vegas though I definately wouldn't want it to be too big and become invasive. The toxin doesn't sound too great either. Any other ideas on trees that would provide shade within 1 year?
damaclese
06-14-2008, 04:15 PM
I have a tree of heaven in my yard right now that came up on it's own (i didn't put it there). I cut it back every fall and it grows back to a beautiful 6-8' shrub the next year. It never gets a chance to seed before I cut it. It does have an interesting odor but for the easy care and tropical effect, I have enjoyed it. In vegas though I definately wouldn't want it to be too big and become invasive. The toxin doesn't sound too great either. Any other ideas on trees that would provide shade within 1 year?
cotin woods grow vary fast or desert burch they grow fast dont know how much shad you would get the first year depeds i gusse on how big it was at the time of planting also you mite consider
calaforna peper tree vary hardy in hot wether give dapaled shad id stay away for desert aloacasa they have invasif roots peaches nectreans apricot all do well here we have more then enuff chill time for them appls persimons standerd citris althou its kinda ify on citris but i have three and they are doing good myer is the best lemon its alot hardyer for cold mex lime is good my mxlim is one of the most butiful trees i have its dwarft goldin rain tree i think dos well smoke tree Ucaliptis they do grate here but are quite big i dont have room and they smell good in the heat crape mirtal dos realy well here too thers doszins more all keep going if nun of thouse fits your fancy
Bananaman88
06-25-2008, 12:52 PM
Pauly,
I came across this today and thought you and some of the other Western growers might like to check it out.
Growing Bananas In Phoenix Arizona - Musaceae (http://www.phoenixtropicals.com/banana.html)
damaclese
06-25-2008, 04:22 PM
Banana dude that was awsom thanks i was having problims with my Bananas the temps in my back yard are runing 110 to 115 even thoug i had them shaded after 11 so i took them inside for the rest of the summer as soon at the temps fall below 90 all plant them on the east fasing waill like the artical sujest mabe they will be ok but right now one looks like it mite croky time will tell i had to take my tropical passaflora in to it looked real bad it could be that my back yard is just to hot it gets sun all day but i have a 12x12 gazibo that iv been keeping them under well could be that my nanas are just to young to withstand the heat i dint get them out untill late april as he said he planted his the first of march my talest is only 2.5 ft ons only 12 "
Bananaman88
06-25-2008, 08:39 PM
No problem; I hope it helps you. I can imagine growing bananas out there must be difficult. I've been to Vegas twice but always in the "nicer" times of year when the temps weren't bad.
mskitty38583
06-26-2008, 09:25 AM
Banana dude "
pauly i swear you get me laughing so hard sometimes!!! so heres to pauly....rotflmao!!!!!!:waving:
damaclese
06-26-2008, 05:33 PM
pauly i swear you get me laughing so hard sometimes!!! so heres to pauly....rotflmao!!!!!!:waving:
thanks Kitty you make me smile alot your self some times i get really down and its nice to hear a thanks and a chukl
Velutina
08-09-2008, 03:03 AM
I've been in Vegas for a few weeks now and my bananas HATE it here. Their growth has slowed significantly and they are getting dried brown edges. They went from 110F 90% humidity to 105F 10% humidity. I'm hoping the they will do better this fall.
damaclese
08-09-2008, 07:40 AM
I've been in Vegas for a few weeks now and my bananas HATE it here. Their growth has slowed significantly and they are getting dried brown edges. They went from 110F 90% humidity to 105F 10% humidity. I'm hoping the they will do better this fall.
hey Adam good to hear from you sorry your Bananas arnt doing well slow down on the Firtalizer i wouldint hit them ageb untill the heat drops below 95 day try spraying them and if youe have a place that only gets sun untill 12 that would be grate to i am puting mine on the east side of the house but thers no way that you arnt going to get some browing with this heat they will be ok if there in pots protect the post from direct sun you could even put some white sand on top of the soil to reflect some of the heat richard sugested shading them under some of the black screening the kind youw ues in windows and doors cuts down on the UV that is why they brown here they will adaped also try viriatys that are more drout resistint like Misore Ventracosums do prity well as they have big corms and have larg water holding copasitys its been a wicked summer this year i hafe exspected it do to the altra warm winter we had look out we get realy coold wintere after a hot summer its just a climet of exstreams im taking my Bananas in for the winter good luck and keep me posted on there progres befor you know it your gona get fruit promis!
P.S. stay away from TC i know thats not populer on the ORG to say but they take a long time to adaped and never get the growing thing quite right here in the desert i think its do to the fact that and i got this from meny articals that they have some sort of dificalty closing off the pors of there leafs therfor they dehidrat easaly even thoue there soil is damp i dont have any pups just now to give you but as soon as i do all get you some normal corms to try if you need them Scots here now too so mabe together we can help!
Chironex
08-09-2008, 03:45 PM
Yes, I am here and loving it! I found that placing my bananas in nearly full shade next to a pineapple palm tree has worked. It is next to a corner for wind protection too. They get dappled sunlight for a few hours each day. Haven't burned anything that I put there, and they are still putting out new leaves every week despite the heat. I water the walls and the ground around them and think it has become a microclimate.
The other corner has some small trees and a hedge for shade. I have my Aeae there along with Ice Cream and Itinerans. So far so good. I might pick up some shade cloth just to protect the Aeae a little more.
We should plan to get together soon to compare notes, commiserate and have some laughs. Send me a PM and we will get it planned.
We should form a Desert Banana Club. "The Amusing Musas"; "Musing musas"; "Desert desserts" just a few ideas for the name of our group.
Well, off to Home Depot for some larger pots and Fire ant killer - yeah they got me yesterday. Hate 'em.
damaclese
08-09-2008, 09:49 PM
Yes, I am here and loving it! I found that placing my bananas in nearly full shade next to a pineapple palm tree has worked. It is next to a corner for wind protection too. They get dappled sunlight for a few hours each day. Haven't burned anything that I put there, and they are still putting out new leaves every week despite the heat. I water the walls and the ground around them and think it has become a microclimate.
The other corner has some small trees and a hedge for shade. I have my Aeae there along with Ice Cream and Itinerans. So far so good. I might pick up some shade cloth just to protect the Aeae a little more.
We should plan to get together soon to compare notes, commiserate and have some laughs. Send me a PM and we will get it planned.
We should form a Desert Banana Club. "The Amusing Musas"; "Musing musas"; "Desert desserts" just a few ideas for the name of our group.
Well, off to Home Depot for some larger pots and Fire ant killer - yeah they got me yesterday. Hate 'em.wow i never have gotin bit but a fire ant but i do avoid them how about the desert rats thats what ever one in Vages calls them selfs any way or Mohavo musas or paying homig to are rich history how about Musa gang diling dirty musa gang lol just kiding its hard to make hordiculture sound tuff and cool lol
Chironex
08-11-2008, 12:23 AM
All good ones, let's keep our options open and come up with something original and fitting.
damaclese
08-11-2008, 07:31 PM
ok guys abd gals its 105 out side i just finished the new side yard with walk way and moving the fram of the green hos in to place on sunday so i dug hols for the banans and was planing on wating but scot has had such good progres with his i desided to put one of the ice creams out and the DB the pots sit in the grownd and i put post around them and hung shade cloth they will only get sun untill 12 mabe only 10 in the winter but im not takin any chanses they are both shooting up at a rate of 12" per week so im sure they will have time to fruit befor winter sets in im going to build a heated canapy over them if they do fruit
heres some pics of the side yard in progres i will post some more later with all the plants and green house fram in
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12255&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12255&ppuser=2612)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12254&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12254&ppuser=2612)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12253&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12253&ppuser=2612)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12252&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12252&ppuser=2612)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12251&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12251&ppuser=2612)
mskitty38583
08-11-2008, 08:53 PM
wow that looks great. cant wait to see the finished yard with nanas swaying in the wind. great job!
Chironex
08-11-2008, 10:58 PM
Sheesh Pauly, you HAVE been really working hard on this. It looks so different from my last visit. This is going to be beautiful with the bananas and other tropicals swaying in the breezes. Can't wait to see the greenhouse! Thanks for the pics.
damaclese
08-12-2008, 07:20 AM
wow that looks great. cant wait to see the finished yard with nanas swaying in the wind. great job!thanks Kitty its going to look realy good with all the plants iv got Bananas gigantic castor been coco yam 7 dirint pasafloras 3 difrint speseas canna one has red floig wont that be nice (incan ruby) going to plant some malabar spinich too and more but not untill nexst year for the rest so that hole bed is going to be all reds and difrint grees i think the Ventracoseums with there lime green leafs will make an outstanding contribution to the over all varations of coler mabe it will be to sutal and all have to amend it but for now thats my plant and im sticking to it :-P
damaclese
08-12-2008, 07:38 AM
Sheesh Pauly, you HAVE been really working hard on this. It looks so different from my last visit. This is going to be beautiful with the bananas and other tropicals swaying in the breezes. Can't wait to see the greenhouse! Thanks for the pics. tell me about it iv got the dislocated rib to prove it lol every time i work on this house its such a pain and to think i picked this one becaus it hadint been inproved and i wanted to make my mark well i think its making its mark on me lol
Chironex
09-01-2008, 03:18 AM
Adam, Are you still around? Been trying to reach you for the inaugural meeting of the Las Vegas Banana growers. Send me a PM when you can.
damaclese
09-01-2008, 10:20 AM
September 01,2008 observations.
Having survived the hottest summer on record. We'll not exactly the hottest but certainly the one with the most days over 100° so far. Banana with the most growth has been dwarf Brazilian averaging one new leave every four days for a total of 10 leaves total growth since July 15th. The second fastest growing banana was the older of the two ice creams. Averaging one new banana leaf of every 10 days for total of six leaves. The slow growing or the Ensete Ventricosum which if only produced one leave
In the last two months. Overall growth on all the bananas has been unremarkable. However it appears that the more mature banana is more capable it is of surviving in high temperatures and low humidity. So in conclusion one must consider only placing very mature approximately six months to eight months plants in the. The process of acclimatization is slow in the desert environment. After placing the bananas outside on July 15 it took approximately 45 days to acclimatized the bananas to six hours of sun. During this process many leaves were scalded. However the new leaves grown in the last seven days appear to be a handle sun quite well sustaining no scalding to date. During this period of 45 days the bananas experienced three torrential downpours two of which had sustained winds of 70 miles an hour. For a total of 1.75 inches of rain. And sustain temperatures of 105 day and 85 night. all those subjects receive regular watering every other day for a total of three inches per week. Regular fertilizing on a monthly basis with vigrow slow release Palm food. With the shortening days and changing Engel of the sun they are starting to experience much lower levels of ultraviolet light and lower temperatures. I attribute the increasing growth to this fact. It will be very interesting to see how the bananas grow during our extended Fall which should last for September 1 threw December 1. Based on the observations of Overalla weather patterns in the U.S. Predictions of overall cold weather with early onset will probably shorten our normally extended growing season. Although this is just subjective I feel that the dwarf Brazilian will bloom sometime from December to march all subject plans are going to be over wintered indoors should the Brazilian bloom in December this would be optimal for fruit ripening before the onset of hot weather.
Bananaman88
09-01-2008, 11:02 AM
Sounds like you're really having fun now, Pauley! Continued good luck to you and Scot out there! I'll be there at the very end of Feb-early March for the NASCAR race. Maybe we can get together depending on how our time goes.
damaclese
09-01-2008, 11:56 AM
Sounds like you're really having fun now, Pauley! Continued good luck to you and Scot out there! I'll be there at the very end of Feb-early March for the NASCAR race. Maybe we can get together depending on how our time goes.that sounds grate! just let us know mabe we all can go to dinner!.
damaclese
05-06-2009, 11:48 AM
Well i haven't updated this thread in a wile but i wanted to share my observations thus far.
its now May my Bananas have gone threw one summer and one winter mostly in pots. but one has been in the ground now for the entire year. the one in the grown frosted back about 20% and took allot longer then the potted ones which were protected from the cold by bring inside. even with its loss of leafs and subsequent slower start its out pacing the potted plants. just by observation the leafs on the in grown Ic are better formed stand up to wind more and are generally healthier looking. i have to conclude that if you live in a hot dry environment that in ground growing on the east side of the house is by far superior to pot grown Bananas. i attribute this to more even moisture control along with ample space for root development. how ever for maximum growing one must amend or replace salty alluvial soils with highly active organically enriched substrates possessing micros and add microsomal. are salty soils have little if any microsomal activity. do to the toxic nature of not only the Ph but also are levels of boron which interferes in there metabolism of nutrients as well as the plants.
so in conclusion don't bee chicken take that darn things out of there pots and put them in the grown. it may be 110 out side but in general Bananas do not do that well in post to begin with. they will thank you even with the occasional frost we get in the high desert regions of North America. Bananas can be grown successfully in the desert if one is willing to be patient and watch for the signs that plants give us. they will tell you every thing you need to know if you will only learn there language.
the next faze of this although unscientific journal will be an evaluation of which types of Bananas do the best with the heat. this trail involves 160 plants currently in possession between Chironex and my self.
Just based on what we have observed thus far all say Ice Cream (blue Java)
do really well also dwarf Brazilian. mostly what i would expect as they are both tough little bananas. besides heat thees plants must tolerate frost as well as several months of high winds ranging from 10mph to as high this year as 75mph. rapid cycling of heat and cold in bridge months of march and November. thees are stressfully conditions no doubt but which Bananas will do the best only time will tell.
PS as some suitable time in the near future i will wright a simple growing in the desert guide that i will post in the wiki for any one that wishes to get the lowdown
Thanks Pauly, by posting this info you're helping all of us with the update. Not only those in your climate.
damaclese
05-06-2009, 01:47 PM
Thanks Pauly, by posting this info you're helping all of us with the update. Not only those in your climate.
thanks Bob! i think you are right there are many aspects of this thread that show how threw constant observation one can with just some basic knowledge
figure out whats up with ones plants and know exactly what to do to optimize your success in growing them the study of plants is an age old preoccupation of human beings I'm not really saying any thing new but what is new is that really for free dose any one impart this kind of information put forth in simple lay terms so easy any one could not help but to gain at least something from the reading of it and also the ability to see just how i came to believe what it was i was seeing and how i put it to use and adapted to the ever changing nature of the environment
island cassie
05-06-2009, 03:50 PM
Thanks Paulo - it just shows how someone with intelligence and observation can overcome what others say are adverse conditions! Makes me feel humble when they grow here without any effort. Congratulations and go for it!!!
Patty in Wisc
05-06-2009, 04:03 PM
Thanks Pauly, by posting this info you're helping all of us with the update. Not only those in your climate.
Ditto
Keep us posted! :)
Wow, I notice you are at 102 f!!
ronaldstaton
05-13-2009, 05:23 PM
Here are pictures of my Banana plant, an ice cream planted in a partial shady area. There are now 7 pups growing around the base, they seem to keep coming. I am in Chandler Arizona, its been over 100 the past 10 days and they have been growing like weeds, except the main plant has been getting "burned" somewhat as the very top gets the most sun. Funny I have another ice cream I planted at the same time, Mar 2008 that gets full sun. Its only about a foot tall, while this one is going on ten feet!!
damaclese
05-14-2009, 04:56 PM
Here are pictures of my Banana plant, an ice cream planted in a partial shady area. There are now 7 pups growing around the base, they seem to keep coming. I am in Chandler Arizona, its been over 100 the past 10 days and they have been growing like weeds, except the main plant has been getting "burned" somewhat as the very top gets the most sun. Funny I have another ice cream I planted at the same time, Mar 2008 that gets full sun. Its only about a foot tall, while this one is going on ten feet!!
thank you for adding to my ongoing Desert thread vary few if any have contributed its a fascinating study as to you comments well normal growing Practices never work out in the desert iv found that shade on the east side dose the best although i have a few on the north side of my house protected by a gazebo places on the west side of them that way there shaded after about 2pm iv also noted that watering every day whether the pot feels dry or not is the key which means more firt at least every two weeks do to the rapid wash out in pots but really growing them in a highly organic soil in ground works the best just watch out for photoresperation if that sets in your done with any growth for the summer watering when ever the leafs close up helps pull them out of this iv been using a soaker hose that sprays rather then the drip kind really helps to bring a cooling to the area around them I'm not sure most people would want to go to the trouble of growing then thou you would have to be the kind of person that just loves them more than any thing to put up with it (full time job) I'm debating it at this point if I'm really that kind of person theirs so many other things i can grow here easer but im stuck i have a hard time throwing away plants that iv slaved over for 2 years
ronaldstaton
05-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Damaclese, it looks like you grow most of yours in pots? Mine are in a raised bed and I just let them grow. They have been pretty easy to care for, I only had to cover them up for a few nights last winter becuase it got down to 30 degrees or so. I just use drip irrigation to water them, every so often I will soak the bed with the hose and add some miracle grow. Hopefully they will keep growing with little care. I think its going to be a long hot (at least longer and hotter than normal), as it been 100 degrees+ since the first of May.... I remember last May was much cooler... Anyway good luck on your desert planting too!
damaclese
05-14-2009, 05:44 PM
i have a dwarf brazillan 1 Ice Cream and 3 enset ventracosum in the ground
i have about 8 difrint ones all quite smal and to tender to stay out side here in Las Vegas i have an Ae Ae in a pot one really gigantic IC that is in a pot but its going in the ground in the fall after the heat brakes so no most of them are in the ground the smaler ones were all gifts and im not sure what to do with them i only have one tropical garden bed iv found that younger plants strugal here but ones there biger they do all right
O and i have to water every day its not just hot here im at farly high altitud 3000ft and its quite windy so things dry out fast
damaclese
05-16-2009, 10:10 AM
OK this posting is on how Baby Banana offspring grow in desert conditions
Some of this is going to sound familiar as every ones to some degree has had some experience with the traits of Bananas that have pupped and how those pups respond
the basic observation is that in temps reaching the high 90s to low 100 the Pups that are aloud to stay on their parent grow fast really fast compared to the parents on initial planting this is unremarkable if one was observing this in relationship to say a zone 10 tropical coastal climate but being that this is a zone 9 Mediterranean climate and a high mountainous desert one at that this seems remarkable to me pups of 12 to 16" have leaf sizes that rival there parent plant by as much as 50% at the same size so I'm concluding that for reasons yet unknown known thees pup have mad an adaptation to the harsher climate
hypothesis
one that the parent plant helps to support the pup wail its attached this is a well know aspect of Banana culture but i also hypothesize that threw the process of pupping the immature or in-vitro cell clusters emerging from the parent go threw a metamorphosis that changes there adaptive ability's allowing them to grow in this harsher climate Leaf structures are thicker at younger stages and the number of pours on the leafs are fewer there by reducing over all dehydration also as compared to the mother plants there ability to withstand the high light levels is substantially grater mid day burning is minimal also the meristem is thicker early on i have no idea why that is if any one cares to put forth a hypotheses on that i would be ever so grateful it is probably do to this adaptation but it could be do to the higher levels of nutritional support received from the parent who knows also thees pups are growing in native earth as compared to the parent plant wish spent the first 6 to 8 months in a pot so obviously they have room to grow lager root systems earlier on then there parent did what will be optimal is to see when thees pups produce their own pups this will give us an even grater opportunity to possibly confirm the above hypothesis this is just an observation and not really scientific so you do your own research
ronaldstaton
05-18-2009, 05:32 PM
Interesting, thats how my pups are growing, the leaves are huge. Can you tell me how to separate a pup from the mother plant so i can plant elsewhere? Is there a certain size I need to look for, do I dig straight down etc. Thanks for any help!
lorax
05-18-2009, 05:41 PM
We have an excellent thread on that, Ronald.
How To Separate Pups (http://www.bananas.org/f2/time-separate-pups-spring-1814.html)
ronaldstaton
05-18-2009, 06:27 PM
Thanks Lorax! Great stuff there, I guess they are not as fragile plants as I think they are.... Im gonna give it a shot.
ronaldstaton
05-19-2009, 11:02 AM
Well I tried it last night, but I think I messed up, I cut through the white part and did not get any roots with it. I still replanted it, so I'll see what happens. This morning it was looking pretty droopy. If it dies I will try again!
damaclese
05-20-2009, 09:15 AM
when i separate them i dig down around them with my hand that way i don't risk cutting them with my shovel its always a pretty good idea to wait until there fair sized to separate them that way you can be reasonably sure they have some roots this is particularly important in desert climates you know leaving up to two pups on the mothers is always a good idea that way you have a steady supply of fruit on a yearly bases that one you separated dig it up and put it in a pot for the summer take it inside its never going to live just sticking it in the ground the heat will kill it with in a day like i said in the previous posts they are fragile until they get some size on them that first year is tough for the pups
damaclese
06-07-2009, 11:37 AM
this has been such a good year for the Bananas i took some pictures so every one could see how there doing
Blue Java with first pup
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18091&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18091&ppuser=2612)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18092&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18092&ppuser=2612)
Brazilian with pup
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18093&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18093&ppuser=2612)
that big leaf is the pup not the momma
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18101&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18101)
Brazilian with amaranths growing in back ground note how they have almost coved the Blue Jave growing in them
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18100&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18100)
Potted Ae Ae after it finally cam out of its shock from being moved out side
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18098&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18098)
harveyc
06-07-2009, 06:30 PM
Glad to see your Ae Ae is doing well, Pauly. I remember when it had skinny leaves like one of mine. They both have nice big fat leaves now. The others I've had never had skinny leaves so I'm curious as to if it's related to a particular strain or something else.
damaclese
06-07-2009, 07:01 PM
Glad to see your Ae Ae is doing well, Pauly. I remember when it had skinny leaves like one of mine. They both have nice big fat leaves now. The others I've had never had skinny leaves so I'm curious as to if it's related to a particular strain or something else.
well this one im sure was not geting the right food i started it on Keloggs organic with microsomeals and thats when it started throwing theas big wide one all the bananas i have leafs started changing shapes when i swiched to this new firtalizer
its much more PH nuetral then the old one i was useing
lt_eggbeater
06-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Damaclese, it looks like you grow most of yours in pots? Mine are in a raised bed and I just let them grow. They have been pretty easy to care for, I only had to cover them up for a few nights last winter becuase it got down to 30 degrees or so. I just use drip irrigation to water them, every so often I will soak the bed with the hose and add some miracle grow. Hopefully they will keep growing with little care. I think its going to be a long hot (at least longer and hotter than normal), as it been 100 degrees+ since the first of May.... I remember last May was much cooler... Anyway good luck on your desert planting too!
I'm in Arizona also, North East Mesa, so not too far from you. My bananas have been growing like weeds also. In fact twelve of them are currently fruiting. Mine get very little shade, getting blasted by the sun doesn't seem to affect them as long as you water them enough.
Bananaman88
06-08-2009, 05:44 AM
Paul,
Your plants are looking great, buddy! Keep up the good work.
damaclese
06-08-2009, 08:04 AM
[QUOTE=lt_eggbeater;79091]I'm in Arizona also, North East Mesa, so not too far from you. My bananas have been growing like weeds also. In fact twelve of them are currently fruiting. Mine get very little shade, getting blasted by the sun doesn't seem to affect them as long as you water them enough.[/QUOTE
I'm in total agreement on that lots of water but i do think you have to fertilize them more when you water that much don't you?
harveyc
06-08-2009, 10:13 AM
Soils vary a great deal, but average about 1/3 in pore space. You don't want to saturate your soil completely as roots need air also (it's not possible to saturate sandy soils unless you've got a hard pan below it). As long as you don't water more than what the soil in the plant's root zone will hold, you will not leach out fertilizers. If you water carefully, the only increase in fertilizers will be due to increased plant growth.
When I irrigate the orchards I farm I calculate how far I need to wet the soil and estimate the water needs based on calculating the volume of area I want to moisten, converting the volume of square feet into gallons (1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons) and then run my sprinklers for the length of time I need to get the volume. This takes some experience to factor in existing soil moisture and I have soil moisture probes buried at 15" and 30" in 3 locations to monitor moisture.
lt_eggbeater
06-08-2009, 10:37 AM
Soils vary a great deal, but average about 1/3 in pore space. You don't want to saturate your soil completely as roots need air also (it's not possible to saturate sandy soils unless you've got a hard pan below it). As long as you don't water more than what the soil in the plant's root zone will hold, you will not leach out fertilizers. If you water carefully, the only increase in fertilizers will be due to increased plant growth.
When I irrigate the orchards I farm I calculate how far I need to wet the soil and estimate the water needs based on calculating the volume of area I want to moisten, converting the volume of square feet into gallons (1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons) and then run my sprinklers for the length of time I need to get the volume. This takes some experience to factor in existing soil moisture and I have soil moisture probes buried at 15" and 30" in 3 locations to monitor moisture.
The native soil here is pretty bad so every banana is planted with about 6 cubic feet of potting soil. There is also quite a bit of granite base around underneath so I guess I could possibly over water them. However this has not happened yet. They usually get about 32 to 64 gallons of water per cycle depending on the size of the tree and whether or not I have gotten around to adding an extra emitter. In the summer they get watered daily. I dont fertilize that often either.
damaclese
06-08-2009, 12:40 PM
wow that sounds coplicated im watering ever other day untill it gose over 100 then its ever day
lt_eggbeater
06-08-2009, 01:10 PM
Nah it's pretty simple its all on drip system that is set to water for 8 hours a day. I have 4 gallon emitters, so if the banana has only 1 emitter its gets 32 gallons a day, if it has 2 emitters it gets 64 gallons a day.
gadget
06-08-2009, 01:54 PM
What I have learned growing bananas in the desert.
My soil is clay with a high ph, and with lots of salts.
I add iron, and the cheapest granulated fertilizer.
I think my successes is due to planting plants a little high in the soil and putting down a layer of compost then a thick layer of mulch. I do not mix amendments in with the native soil I just add to the top.
The battle for me is to keep my soil damp and getting the plants nitrogen.
All I can say is mulch the ground the soil stays cooler and conservers water.
Plant desert legume trees around your bananas and under plant with legumes.
Plant things close so they can shade each other and share resources.
I also plant things that are not as heat hardy next to my bananas and they tell me when to water.
Watering- I do drip with lots of laser line encircling the plants, so each plant gets about 20 to 30 emitters for good coverage. Water a lot at one time, to try to flush the salts out of the root zone. I also hand water a good portion of my plants, I enjoy it and works well for the plants, but I can not leave for more than 3 or so days at a time.
I still have problems with drainage, nutrient diff, and salt burn. and newly transplanted plants like to rot. But once the plants are established they have no big problems.
For my potted plants all are on my covered porch and only get an hour of direct sun. This is the only way most survive and look good threw the summer, in the sun I could not keep up with watering. The only potted plants I put in full sun are cactus, succulents, and desert palms.
most plants look good but Here are some pics of my problem plants
canna,I dug it up and put it in the garbage. I think it had the virus.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18135><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18135&size=1 border=0></a>
under watered banana
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18136><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18136&size=1 border=0></a>
This banana has had problems with ruffled leafs it comes and goes.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18138><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18138&size=1 border=0></a>
april 15
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16671&ppuser=1269><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=16671&size=1 border=0></a>
june 8
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18139&ppuser=1269><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=18139&size=1 border=0></a>
damaclese
06-08-2009, 02:07 PM
Nah it's pretty simple its all on drip system that is set to water for 8 hours a day. I have 4 gallon emitters, so if the banana has only 1 emitter its gets 32 gallons a day, if it has 2 emitters it gets 64 gallons a day.
i don't give them that much water we are on restriction with irrigation
but we can water with a hose any time we want except from 7am until 7pm
so i water almost exclusively with a hose I'm rebuilding the irrigation system maybe I'm not giving them enough all have to rethink that they seam to be growing pretty good I'm getting a new leaf ever couple of days
damaclese
06-08-2009, 02:17 PM
gadget thanks for contributing its vary helpful to me iv only learned what i have do to experimentation seeing your plants lets me know what is what they don't look that bad to me maybe i don't know what they should look like in the first place the canna looks a bit over watered maybe some iron i do have to put iron down every year it seems i was getting ready today to put some down iv got slight yellowing on some of them mostly the ones in the pots
ronaldstaton
06-08-2009, 03:52 PM
Wow you guys water a lot. I have 1 emitter on my plants that stays on for 1 hour a day. They are thriving. Maybe becuase its a mostly shaded area I dont need as much water?
lt_eggbeater
06-08-2009, 04:13 PM
Wow you guys water a lot. I have 1 emitter on my plants that stays on for 1 hour a day. They are thriving. Maybe becuase its a mostly shaded area I dont need as much water?
Yep, mine are pretty much directly in the full merciless az sun. Roasty toasty.
damaclese
06-08-2009, 05:03 PM
mine are on the east side getting sun until 1ish i cant get them to take any more then that they burn up still 2 or 3 gal a day ott to be more then enough
in tropical environments the only need 1/2" of rain a week
lt_eggbeater
06-08-2009, 05:08 PM
mine are on the east side getting sun until 1ish i cant get them to take any more then that they burn up still 2 or 3 gal a day ott to be more then enough
in tropical environments the only need 1/2" of rain a week
2 or 3 gals a day would not cut it where mine are positioned. Most of them get none to very little shade at anytime during the day.
damaclese
06-24-2009, 12:44 PM
well its now the end of June and the Bananas are showing there new found ability's to tolarait heat we just hit 101 this week a bit late this year but i knew it would come sooner or later
the ice creams are the tallest despite starting out with all the rest in the first batch but thats to be expected there now about 5 ft tall the Brazilian its growing the most robustly its leafs are so big it almost look like a fake plant its baby is just 4" shorter then the mom and looks like its going to be bigger well i would expect that since momma was in a pot for a year and baby has only known the good earth around its feet I'm defiantly watering allot so iv increased the feedings to weekly with Kellogg's organic thats 1 tbs a week for post and a bit more for the in ground ones i also dosed them with Iron weed
Iron supplement with sulfur things were not looking to bad but i thought the looked a bit limy in general and some of the non Banana plants like my grapes were defishintce showing some signs of iron deficiency so i decided i would do the entier property thats allot of iron! even thou the bananas have really increased there growth rate over last you i still think they arnt growing as fast as some one that lives in a wetter climate but for Vargas I'm happy hell I'm more then happy I'm ecstatic! I'm almost positive that there will be some kind of fruit later this year when the cold will get to it but iv got a plan to deal with that more about that later
lt_eggbeater
06-24-2009, 02:13 PM
well its now the end of June and the Bananas are showing there new found ability's to tolarait heat we just hit 101 this week a bit late this year but i knew it would come sooner or later
the ice creams are the tallest despite starting out with all the rest in the first batch but thats to be expected there now about 5 ft tall the Brazilian its growing the most robustly its leafs are so big it almost look like a fake plant its baby is just 4" shorter then the mom and looks like its going to be bigger well i would expect that since momma was in a pot for a year and baby has only known the good earth around its feet I'm defiantly watering allot so iv increased the feedings to weekly with Kellogg's organic thats 1 tbs a week for post and a bit more for the in ground ones i also dosed them with Iron weed
Iron supplement with sulfur things were not looking to bad but i thought the looked a bit limy in general and some of the non Banana plants like my grapes were defishintce showing some signs of iron deficiency so i decided i would do the entier property thats allot of iron! even thou the bananas have really increased there growth rate over last you i still think they arnt growing as fast as some one that lives in a wetter climate but for Vargas I'm happy hell I'm more then happy I'm ecstatic! I'm almost positive that there will be some kind of fruit later this year when the cold will get to it but iv got a plan to deal with that more about that later
Mine are growing well also, and it has already hit 108f in my yard in the shade. There are now about 14 stalks that are fruiting. The latest being a saba. I was kind of hoping it would get taller before fruiting, its about 14 feet at the stem now, although it has three pups on it that are almost as tall which will probably wind up being taller than the mom. Its only been in the ground from a tissue culture for about 14 months.
ronaldstaton
07-13-2009, 06:52 PM
118, 115, 116 those were the high temps for the past 3 days here in Chandler, AZ. Nanners looked pretty wilted, but still seem to grow. Quite a bit of browning on the leaves that are exposed to the sun all day. Lets hope the monsoon kicks in soon...
lt_eggbeater
07-13-2009, 10:14 PM
118, 115, 116 those were the high temps for the past 3 days here in Chandler, AZ. Nanners looked pretty wilted, but still seem to grow. Quite a bit of browning on the leaves that are exposed to the sun all day. Lets hope the monsoon kicks in soon...
Same temps here no wilt, no browning, and no shade. Just watering the heck out of them.
ewitte
07-14-2009, 06:10 AM
Its been somewhere between 98-103 the last 3 weeks or so here. They were doing fine even with 2-3gal every other day. I do have the sprinkler on again at 5am but it only really hits one of the banna plants good and about 10 minutes.
ronaldstaton
07-22-2009, 07:00 PM
With all the 110+ degree days and the last 4 nights of dust/wind storms my large original nanner looks pretty ragged. All the leaves are browned and frayed. In fact no new leaves have emerged in weeks. Its about 13 feet tall (Ice Cream). Hopefully its not on its last legs. All its pups (about 7) seem ok, a little wilted but contining to grow. Any of you other Arizonans having the same issues?
Ohio'sBest
07-22-2009, 07:48 PM
When I was down there in AZ. a few years back, I visited Whitfill nursery that had Eucalyptus trees protecting their bananas.
damaclese
07-24-2009, 08:57 AM
I just planted my big Ice cream (Blue Java) in the ground its pot was over heating and i was havint a dickens of a time geting it to drink water or take up any firtalizer now its doing good my other IC is starting to put out consecativly smaler leafs im taking this as a sign its going to fruit but the p-stem dosint look like its sweling so im taking a wait and see att. on it i just recived from scot a bunch of banana plants that know one wanted in thie action is all be planting more but im defanatly runing out of room as my yard is only 7000 sqft and a big chunk of that has a house on it o well i just dont want the Bananas to take over and look messy im keeping the pups under control i dont want any masive clumps still no pups from the Ae Ae but it looks grate and its P-stem is swelling so it mite be geting ready to fuite too all be repoting it up to a 44" pot here in a few weeks when i get the pot there kinda hard to find in theas parts Sima rubys puting out desint sized leafs for the first time iv had this plant for a year it was a runt sold to me by a felow meber here i wont say his name i will never buy from him again last spring after not having grown much at all it split its p-stem then pushed out a bunch of realy small leafs and started gaining from that point on the HY one of the rarest Bananas on the plant is doing awsom pushing out one leaf after another aslow my KM5 is growing to beat the band those are all part of my rare banana colection i need to repot them all they are geting root bound
its a good thing i keep all the pots i get from the land scaping nursry
any way thats the progres report for july and i know now bananas are good in the desert if you just put them in the ground and not in pots if at all posibal
rich985
07-26-2009, 02:45 PM
With all the 110+ degree days and the last 4 nights of dust/wind storms my large original nanner looks pretty ragged. All the leaves are browned and frayed. In fact no new leaves have emerged in weeks. Its about 13 feet tall (Ice Cream). Hopefully its not on its last legs. All its pups (about 7) seem ok, a little wilted but contining to grow. Any of you other Arizonans having the same issues?
During the monsoon winds, it shredded the emerging leaves a little, but there was no big problem. My Goldfinger leaves browned a little, but the pups look ok and the leaves keep coming about once a week. I had no problems with my ice cream, the leaves are barely shredded and no browning at all.
Velutina
07-26-2009, 04:27 PM
My experience since moving to Las Vegas one year ago: Everything died except (oddly) an Ensete glaucum. Which, surprisingly, is doing quite well. I moved into a house several months back and have been working on installing drip and drought-tolerant landscape. I reserved the most protected section of the yard for marginal palms and bananas!! So in the next month, i'll be ordering some bananas!!! I was thinking maybe 'ice cream', 'orinoco', 'mysore'... but still need to go back over this (and other) threads.. Anyways, i'm very excited to start up again :)
damaclese
07-27-2009, 08:41 AM
My experience since moving to Las Vegas one year ago: Everything died except (oddly) an Ensete glaucum. Which, surprisingly, is doing quite well. I moved into a house several months back and have been working on installing drip and drought-tolerant landscape. I reserved the most protected section of the yard for marginal palms and bananas!! So in the next month, i'll be ordering some bananas!!! I was thinking maybe 'ice cream', 'orinoco', 'mysore'... but still need to go back over this (and other) threads.. Anyways, i'm very excited to start up again :)
long time no hear my friend! let me know i mite have a pup or two i have a cupal of Bananas that are in desprit need of a home i just dont have room and scot gave them to me they need planted today or tomarw if there going to live
ronaldstaton
07-29-2009, 11:22 AM
I just cut off the large dying leaves on my large original plant, so there are just 3 very brown ragged ones remaining. Not sure if its going to die or not. Perhaps because I did not weed back any pups its not getting enough nutrition? I water heavily and give fertilizer regularly. At least there are some big pups, some over 6' tall ready to takes moms place :)
gadget
07-29-2009, 12:28 PM
Ron
Mom should come back, just do not cut off any green. Pups had nothing to do with moms burnt leaves, it was lack of water on those 4 days of 115 starting on July 10. I was out of town then but got back to yellow burnt bananas. They all just started to put out normal leafs again. Monday was 114, and yesterday was 115 so I hope you are putting down extra water.
O and if you ever need more bananas let me know, I have too many.
ronaldstaton
07-29-2009, 12:45 PM
Ron
Mom should come back, just do not cut off any green. Pups had nothing to do with moms burnt leaves, it was lack of water on those 4 days of 115 starting on July 10. I was out of town then but got back to yellow burnt bananas. They all just started to put out normal leafs again. Monday was 114, and yesterday was 115 so I hope you are putting down extra water.
O and if you ever need more bananas let me know, I have too many.
Thanks Gadget. I have 3 drips on the plants that run for 90 min a day, I check each day and the ground is always moist. Maybe I should reposition the emitters, maybe some areas are not covered well enough. I will also run the hose and give a good soak tonight. I may take you up on your offer to take some plants from you, I dont think I will mid-summer as it may be too much of a shock re-planting them, perhaps this fall? What kind do you have? I only have the ice cream as I am new to the banana game. I will update this post on how my big guy is doing. Thanks again!
TommyMacLuckie
07-29-2009, 01:37 PM
Y'all out in the desert need to keep the temperature thing in check - plants in the sun get anywhere from 20 to 40 degrees higher temperatures of heat than what the "temperature" is. In SE Louisiana it commonly gets into the 120s and 130s in the sun, with the measured temperatures going between 92 and 99 degrees and heat indices in the low 100s. We've had days of the temperature being 101 to 104 before but talk with any meteorologist - they'll tell you it's much hotter in the sun. Into the 160s on a roof.
I have my yard on a timer with a Melnor oscillating sprinker (on the roof of the door entry to my studio so it covers more area) connected to a Melnor two zoned timer. When we get zero to 30% chance of rain I have it water for an hour every morning from around 6 or 7 AM. When we get 30% to 40% chance of rain I drop it to a half hour. We're getting decent rain as of late so I have it down to 1 minute a day right now. Everything gets full sun plus the humidity is very high in the morning and by afternoon it settles down to around 50%, which is still quite dry. This starts in mid April or early May, depending on what the global weather pattern is doing (it didn't get 'the usual' here until mid May this year, usually it's between Jazz Fest weekends that it cranks up for summer), and goes until mid October in general. Right about October 15th the switch is thrown and everything cools down and gets dry, with the highest humidity being maybe 50%.
For summer I've figured that an hour of watering equals about a 1/4 inch of rain (not exactly sure but it's similar to what happens when it does rain 1/4 an hour) - just enough for the plants to not stress out (unless they are in containers). When it's cooler out, around 88 to 92, the water gets a chance to soak in. When it's over 92, it dries out fast. I do let the plants get less water occasionally, stressing them, so that when they do get more water they have a growth spurt.
Just to clarify, I'm not confusing this with heat index either.
All my bananas except the Sabas seem to grow quite fast. For whatever reason the Sabas are just super slow.
gadget
07-29-2009, 02:20 PM
Thanks Gadget. I have 3 drips on the plants that run for 90 min a day, I check each day and the ground is always moist. Maybe I should reposition the emitters, maybe some areas are not covered well enough. I will also run the hose and give a good soak tonight. I may take you up on your offer to take some plants from you, I dont think I will mid-summer as it may be too much of a shock re-planting them, perhaps this fall? What kind do you have? I only have the ice cream as I am new to the banana game. I will update this post on how my big guy is doing. Thanks again!
I transplanted 9 bananas last week and all are doing great I also put in 20 papayas that where doing great until yesterday with it being warm and windy, I think I am going to lose at least 10 of them. Most of my plants are collected so I have no idea what they are.
But Here is my list of known bananas
DCD, Rajapuri, Goldfinger, Saba, Cardoba, Hawaiian apple, Orinoco, D Orinoco, Basjoo, Siam ruby, Mysore, Zebrina, Misi luki.
Tommy good point.
ronaldstaton
08-03-2009, 05:39 PM
Ron
Mom should come back, just do not cut off any green. Pups had nothing to do with moms burnt leaves, it was lack of water on those 4 days of 115 starting on July 10. I was out of town then but got back to yellow burnt bananas. They all just started to put out normal leafs again. Monday was 114, and yesterday was 115 so I hope you are putting down extra water.
O and if you ever need more bananas let me know, I have too many.
Gadget, after I started watering extra each evening with the hose, a new leaf is sprouting! Thanks for the extra watering tip. Looks like momma plant is going to survive!
damaclese
08-03-2009, 08:53 PM
hey guys i thought you mite like a report or a picture of the Musa Bell that i drove home in my little sports car i planted it it look kinda ruff but when i was depotting it i noted that its roots had died back in the past but i wasn't to concerned as it was showing some good signs of new root growth it is a bite piqued which is concerning as i hit it with some K-mag and kelp extract along with some super good microsomal so i think it would have greened up a bit more but all wait and see its 107 here and nun of the Bananas are growing that fast and they all look a bit yellow except the dwarf Brazilian which tolerates the heat the best
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=20402&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20402&ppuser=2612)
Brazilian
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=20405&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20405&ppuser=2612)
Velutina
08-03-2009, 10:09 PM
The Brazilian is looking great!! I just planted a cardaba in an area protected from the scorching sun and dry winds. Crossing my fingers...
damaclese
08-04-2009, 06:27 AM
The Brazilian is looking great!! I just planted a cardaba in an area protected from the scorching sun and dry winds. Crossing my fingers...
i don't grow that variety so I'm not sure how well it will do iv found that the Sun isn't that much of a problem after they get use to it but Lord only knows if they will adapted before they burn up iv lost a few this year and last the best so far are mostly the common every day harder types like Blue Java, Brazilian, my Ae Ae is doing good if a bit tattered looking right now Yangambi Km5 and HY Brazilian china golden lotus looks awesome i think i have a picture of that one i took yesterday all post it to
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=20422&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20422&ppuser=2612)
Post some pictures so we can see your progress
Velutina
08-04-2009, 03:00 PM
WOW, the Chinese yellow is looking excellent as well!! I'll probably making an order tonight for 3-4 plants. I'm thinking about getting Brazillian, Saba, Raja Puri, and Orinoco. What do you think... good choices? Probably buying from Going Bananas unless I find a better source. Mysore and Red Iholena are on standby.
damaclese
08-04-2009, 03:42 PM
WOW, the Chinese yellow is looking excellent as well!! I'll probably making an order tonight for 3-4 plants. I'm thinking about getting Brazillian, Saba, Raja Puri, and Orinoco. What do you think... good choices? Probably buying from Going Bananas unless I find a better source. Mysore and Red Iholena are on standby.
i have an exstra chines golden lotus if you want it come get it its in a 10" pot
its an extra not as big as the one in the pic but I'm sure with care it will get there
Saba i think will wilt in the sun here yes its cold hardy but most of the super Hardy's don't do well here its not that cold i have a 20gal pond that never freezes and its not moving water just standing Rajah I'm not sure but if yours dose well all buy a pup from you when it comes time i think the Orinoco will die Scot had two and they both bit the big one but that could have been from neglect he had an offal lot on his plate defantly the brazillian they seem to do vary well here . as pups come avalibal i could be perswaded to give you some but most of them arnt the ones you have metioned all defantly have ice cream pups buy spring mabe a bell yangambi o and i have an exstreamly rare banana caled an HY Brazilian thers only 3 in the US and i had 2 of them its to young to pup but its sapose do be super hardy it doing well dosint mind the heat as long as you water it 2 a day this will be its first winter so all let you know all have abacinean in the spring too o and if you want a plantain i have an absalutley gorges monte cristo has the most butiful radeal placment to the leafs almost looks man made pups in the spring on it well hope that helps
Jack Daw
08-04-2009, 03:55 PM
i have an exstra chines golden lotus if you want it come get it its in a 10" pot
its an extra not as big as the one in the pic but I'm sure with care it will get there
Saba i think will wilt in the sun here yes its cold hardy but most of the super Hardy's don't do well here its not that cold i have a 20gal pond that never freezes and its not moving water just standing Rajah I'm not sure but if yours dose well all buy a pup from you when it comes time i think the Orinoco will die Scot had two and they both bit the big one but that could have been from neglect he had an offal lot on his plate defantly the brazillian they seem to do vary well here . as pups come avalibal i could be perswaded to give you some but most of them arnt the ones you have metioned all defantly have ice cream pups buy spring mabe a bell yangambi o and i have an exstreamly rare banana caled an HY Brazilian thers only 3 in the US and i had 2 of them its to young to pup but its sapose do be super hardy it doing well dosint mind the heat as long as you water it 2 a day this will be its first winter so all let you know all have abacinean in the spring too o and if you want a plantain i have an absalutley gorges monte cristo has the most butiful radeal placment to the leafs almost looks man made pups in the spring on it well hope that helps
I finally understood ALL the words you wrote (yangambi, abacinean...). No problem from now on. :D ;)
Any chances on HYB when it pups?
damaclese
08-04-2009, 05:34 PM
I finally understood ALL the words you wrote (yangambi, abacinean...). No problem from now on. :D ;)
Any chances on HYB when it pups?
its kinda far to send and the first cupal of pups are spokin for at this point but we will see what we can do when the time comes
Jack Daw
08-04-2009, 05:38 PM
its kinda far to send and the first cupal of pups are spokin for at this point but we will see what we can do when the time comes
Thanks. :lurk: May it pup each week! :bananas_b
Velutina
08-22-2009, 04:43 PM
Finally getting some bananas growing! I've been very surprised how well the Ensete glaucum is doing. It really took off as soon as I added drip irrigation. The banana on the left is a cardaba. It has been in the ground for maybe 3 weeks and is pushing out it's 4th new leaf.
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/triterium/August222009027.jpg
I ordered some bananas from Stokes Tropicals and received them last week. I planted them directly in the ground in 105F heat and they are doing great. Most already have their first leaves out.
Planted:
Ice Cream
Red Iholene
Raja Puri
Bordelon
Cardaba
Brazilian
Ensete glaucum
sikkimensis
:woohoonaner:
damaclese
08-30-2009, 12:35 PM
Looking good Velutina
Velutina
09-12-2009, 12:42 AM
How are everyones desert bananas doing? My Ensete glaucum has really taken off this month (compare to the post above). September seems to be a good time for bananas in Vegas.
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/triterium/September112009054.jpg
damaclese
09-12-2009, 08:51 AM
now that the night time temps. have cooled off every thing is growing like Gang busters. my Dwarf Brazilian has grown over a ft in the last week but its racing to bloom i can tell to bad its so late in the yea.r the Ae Ae is putting out huge leafs as well as the I Creams. the KM5 has grown 4ft this summer i can tell thats going to be a tall one. the dwarf William's is looking good but hasn't grown all that tall but its packed with leafs and pups. and my rarest the HY Brazilian is growing nice sized leafs but not that fast but its in a high level of shade
yours is looking good. what are you feeding that big boy? its practically doubled in size in just a couple of weeks. looks like you are getting some of the low humidity burning on older leafs that i get. don't sweat that they seem to keep growing no mater how ugly they get at times. we should get better foliage now lets hope its a warm winter :-)
Velutina
09-12-2009, 10:09 AM
Thanks Paulo! I just sprinkled on some Miracle Grow "shake n' feed" somebody gave me as a gift. I generally just use an All-purpose rapid release fertilizer, but this slow-release has worked well. I'll be adding a nice layer of manure today too.
Trying to battle the heat and humidity has been a struggle. The leaves on the Ensete that are burned get full sun into the mid-afternoon. The heat from the sun just dries them out and they sag until they get shade in the afternoon. It's hard to tell from the photo, but there is a 40 gallon aquarium behind the Ensete, hidden amongst the palms. I mainly have it there to help keep the plants warmer though the winter (especially the king palm in the back corner), but it helps keep the humidity up as well. it will be heated during winter nights. :coldbanana:
Can't wait to see what our plants do in the next few months!
:nanadrink:
damaclese
09-12-2009, 10:50 AM
watch out for mosquito's we have them bad in some places i don't get as much burning now i water often throw out the day it helps and i have mulched around the plants even the potted ones as they get older they adjust to the low humidity but some will always have brown edges my Ae Ae gets that way i try spraing their foliage down but you cant do it enough to make that big a difference i think you have to grow for fruit not looks but some look good the Dwarf Brazilian looks grate and never really burns
damaclese
09-24-2009, 10:25 PM
well its late September and the High desert Bananas are for the most part doing well finally planted that last Ice Cream the big one its grown 2ft in 2 months and the leafs are magnificently big and boldly green as a mater of fact since i switched to the high power firt every thing has been growing to its full potential i wish i had this stuff at the beginning of the spring we have had some pretty heavy winds this last month or so and most of the bananas have sustained damage the Ae Ae lost all its lower leafs and every plant has fringey leafs but still the keep growing as if nothing has happened at all the Ae seams to be the most affected but as if mentioned in the past i over fertilized it so i back of for a bit to long i fertilized today so hopefully it will start back up with its rapid growth again and thats right my Ae Ae grows just as fast as my other Bananas i am not sure why every one thinks they are slow growers? its been my experience there just higher then average feeders so if you fertilize properly i don't see why any one cant get the leaf ever 4 days i get when i feed it right
well i watered much more this year 3 times a day for the potted plats and twice for the in ground plants they did vary well how ever i think i have an out brake of black fungi growing on most of the potted plants so I'm treating that with a fungicide for fruiting plants an hopefully that will cure that problem funny but i thought it not possible to get black fungous in the desert but with the high rate of water i was doing its no wonder at all all keep you all posted on that
so don't think it cant happen here in the hot desert!
well be setting up a temp green house for most of the potted plants as there to young to make it threw the winter the Ae Ae is coming in thou i don't have pups yet so i don't want to take the chance of loosing it and it didn't like the cool spring it had do to my rushing it out side when the night time temps were still in the low 60s
tried lots of new plants this year to go with the Banana beds some worked some didn't the biggest surprise was the Sweet potato vines i planted under many of the Bananas they took over i planted two different kinds the dark purple ones and the lime green ones both did exceptionally well will be growing them again the Neighbores loved them said they were the best they had ever seen even my Nieghbore that speaks vary little English told me he loved all the Bananas and that it reminded him of home that really made me feel good to know that my gardens made some one feel at home in a strange land so growing in the desert as hard as it can be at times has its rewards
well thats all for this post i have more to say but this will take an hr just to edit so all end here until next time my faithful readers
Paul
damaclese
09-25-2009, 08:09 AM
the second half of my blog will be posted later today or tomorrow promise
Bananaman88
09-25-2009, 11:54 AM
Sounds like your garden is kicking butt, Paul!
damaclese
09-25-2009, 07:26 PM
Sounds like your garden is kicking butt, Paul!
thanks it did better this year but its by no means were i want it to be next year im going to consintrate on creating vary tidy and more compact looking beds i want bananas but i dont want a jungal so as the Bananas have matured i treat them like a tree with underplantings its just that some of the things i planted were just to untidy for me so all get rid of that stuff and try a few things diffirent no more melons there to unrouly every time i would try to train a vine it would just move back to were it ues to be aslow no zinuas they just get to flopy and unlike colder places ones there growing they are there forever i cut down the caster been it was a gigantic vireaty and got to over 12 ft i need the space for my Dwarf willams so that made thing look better i would like to try that red smal caster been iv seen it in some of the pictures here on the ORG if i ever find one or two the Banana beds are all about being red and green i uesd the perpul vins and that workd out grate they stay compact for a sweet potato and you get food too always a bones as far as im consernd any ideas for underplantings weree shade it prity prevalent east sid of my house?
PS i forgot or i never asked you what hapend to your Ae Ae?
Velutina
12-12-2009, 09:18 PM
How are everyones bananas doing this winter? Here are a few pics of mine.
November 2009
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/triterium/December2009228.jpg
December 12, 2009
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/triterium/December2009286.jpg
I'm hoping for a mild winter so they can all get off to a good start in the spring!
:bananas_b
Bananaman88
12-13-2009, 11:02 AM
Hey, Paul...just saw your response above from back in Sept. My Ae-Ae didn't make it. :(
damaclese
12-14-2009, 10:01 AM
you dont want to see my Ae Ae its conpleatly stoped growing i have no idea why i hope it makes it untill i can plant in in the spring as far as how my Bananas that are outsid are doing they look like hell LOL but im not worred and i dont want a bunch of plants i have to baby so what makes it makes it
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