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View Full Version : SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed


Caline
02-11-2017, 09:48 PM
A new owner in the association evidently does not apreciate my banana plants and I have been notified by my HOA PM that I need to remove my banana "tree" because it was not specified in my landscaping project approved in 2015.

The plants have been in the ground for over a year. There are 1 mature, 3 tall and several pups growing around the base of the mat. The mature plant is with fruit and harvest could be in April.

Are there any experienced banana plant growers among us in the Tampa Bay area?

I garden solo and need some help removing, adopting out or transplanting to my city's garden. If you have any other ideas or thoughts on this I would be grateful.

Lydie

Mark Dragt
02-11-2017, 11:35 PM
Wow! That sucks! Any chance you can move them to a different spot in the yard that might be approved? I hope you can leave the one in the ground till the fruit is ready.

sputinc7
02-12-2017, 08:41 AM
Thus is the reason I have no desire to live in a planned community...Nosy busybodies who do not pay my bills telling me what I can do with my own property. I would tell em to stuff it and fight the order. But, that is just me...

Caline
02-12-2017, 10:59 AM
Thank you for your kind words. My local native plant nursery suggested I just cut the bananas back after harvest, which would basically remove them from the visual landscape.
Lydie

Dalmatiansoap
02-12-2017, 12:11 PM
WoW! "Not specified in your landscaping project"!!!???
Sorry for not understanding but seems like you live in a museum? HOA?!
And I grind about place where I live.......

JBijl
02-12-2017, 01:44 PM
Lydie just say to the new owner that he is Bananas And if you want to keep your Banana tree put him in a container whit :0519: and move him so the HOA cant say nothing about you Banana tree

kaczercat
02-12-2017, 02:39 PM
What does that mean? what is HOA? are you are renting a house, you planted a banana and you weren't supposed to?

HMelendez
02-12-2017, 02:49 PM
Lydie,


I'm sorry for the situation with your HOA!....Hopefully you have the opportunity to harvest the fruits!....Thanks God I don't have HOA in my community!....

If you are not authorized to trans-plant them in a different spot (permanent spot) in your yard and you want to keep the plants, consider trans-planting them in pots!....Since they will be in pots would be much easier for you "to move them around" in different spots on your property! (you get the idea!).....:2723::bananarow::2723:

HMelendez
02-12-2017, 02:53 PM
What does that mean? what is HOA? are you are renting a house, you planted a banana and you weren't supposed to?

Matt,


HOA = Homeowners Association

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 10:18 AM
I hate HOAs. They have no legal right to dictate what you can or cannot do in your own yard. I'm waiting for the day when Congress passes a bill to allow homeowners to sue their HOAs like HMOs several years back. You'll watch them evaporate overnight. A private entity CANNOT take precedence over laws. As soon as someone proves this in court, there will be millions of free Americans telling their HOAs to go 4^<3 0*%.

Richard
02-13-2017, 11:23 AM
They have no legal right to dictate what you can or cannot do in your own yard.

Actually they do, it's right there in the property Title.

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 11:39 AM
I understand your POV, but that's because you sign your rights away. They say that is optional, you don't have to sign, but you do.

If you don't sign, you can't purchase. Legally, that is extortion, and it is illegal. It's only a matter of time before these things are challenged in court, and they will be ruled unconstitutional.

Richard
02-13-2017, 11:56 AM
... If you don't sign, you can't purchase. Legally, that is extortion, and it is illegal.

No it isn't: it's a condition of sale. Extortion has a different legal definition:

the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extortion)

kaczercat
02-13-2017, 12:18 PM
Because of one new person? What do they do, walk around the neighbourhood with a vest on looking for things they don't like? lmao! Someone not liking something has nothing to do with the law right?. I don't see why you should comply. If there are overhead wires, height restrictions that's different. But not because they don't like the apearence of something that's not on the city's property.

Richard
02-13-2017, 01:05 PM
What do they do, walk around the neighbourhood with a vest on looking for things they don't like?

Yes.

Someone not liking something has nothing to do with the law right?

Actually it has to do with the terms of the HOA which vary by state and property. It all cases they can have exterior landscaping removed by a simple vote of the board.

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 01:23 PM
Which is exactly why they need to be abolished. I'm convinced most HOA board members are told what to do by their wives, and this is their one little grab at power.

Richard
02-13-2017, 01:39 PM
Which is exactly why they need to be abolished. I'm convinced most HOA board members are told what to do by their wives, and this is their one little grab at power.

Typically they follow recommendations from the property management company they've hired for maintenance, accounting, etc. In this case it might be that the landscapers did not want to work around and/or maintain a banana plant.

edwmax
02-13-2017, 02:00 PM
I wasn't going to comment, but ....

One I would review the HOA Landscaping requirements and the terms of your deed.

Two, determine why the banana plants are not allowed. Was it because they simple were not listed on the 2015 approved landscaping plan; or do they not meet other landscaping requirements. Is there an oversight remedy for over looked plants that would have otherwise been approved.

Three, was this HOA committee action or result of a complaint from one owner?

Four, I would request copies of the landscaping plans of the neighbors. Then see if their yards meet all HOA requirements. (which I doubt) Make complaints against them too. Especially, the Owner that complained about your bananas.

If you can stir up enough of the owners, then you might be able to get a landscaping requirements changed and/or approval for your plants. ... This is a situation where some tend to 'bluff' the requirements to get their way or make themselves a 'big-shot' in the HOA. So know exactly what the requirements are; and question the HOA why you are being single out when other owners do not meet the same requirements.

kaczercat
02-13-2017, 02:52 PM
WOoW That's actually sad

Caline
02-13-2017, 03:13 PM
What does that mean? what is HOA? are you are renting a house, you planted a banana and you weren't supposed to?
Hi HOA means Home Owners Association (HOA) and as I mentioned, these plants are part of a landscaping project for my outdoor space, submitted to the board of directors and approved in 2015.
In answer to your question, yes, I planted the bananas within the borders of landscape project bed.

As we at bananas.org know, bananas are not "trees," so contrary to the accusation, I have not gone beyond the bounds of my landscape project which speaks of planting "mostly Florida native plants and shrubbery".

If I wanted a fight I could argue, it's a grass plant, not a tree but I have a great aversion to conflict and donot see a long term win. HOA like the IRS, also get their way.

Caline
02-13-2017, 03:15 PM
Lydie,


I'm sorry for the situation with your HOA!....Hopefully you have the opportunity to harvest the fruits!....Thanks God I don't have HOA in my community!....

If you are not authorized to trans-plant them in a different spot (permanent spot) in your yard and you want to keep the plants, consider trans-planting them in pots!....Since they will be in pots would be much easier for you "to move them around" in different spots on your property! (you get the idea!).....:2723::bananarow::2723:

Yes, that could be a plan. thanks

Caline
02-13-2017, 03:25 PM
Because of one new person? What do they do, walk around the neighbourhood with a vest on looking for things they don't like? lmao! Someone not liking something has nothing to do with the law right?. I don't see why you should comply. If there are overhead wires, height restrictions that's different. But not because they don't like the apearence of something that's not on the city's property.
Yes, it is very frustrating. I ask myself. Do these plants obstruct someone else view?, No. Do they block their right of way or thru passage?. No. Are they hazardous, about to fall on someone? No. Are they ill-kempt and unsightly? No (that was the only stipulation in approval, that I maintain the lanscaping. ) Do they in any way cause harm or prejudice to others? No.


Lydie

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 03:26 PM
If they were already approved, how in the hell can they "un-approve" them?!

All it would take is a quick definition from an expert to explain that these are plants, and not trees.

Caline
02-13-2017, 03:29 PM
Which is exactly why they need to be abolished. I'm convinced most HOA board members are told what to do by their wives, and this is their one little grab at power.

Actually this HOA is told what to do and what to vote by the Property Management company who does the books. But that's another subject.

For now I'm letting my bananas ripe. We need 85-90ª weather for that and it doesn't look like we're getting any soon.

Caline
02-13-2017, 03:34 PM
Typically they follow recommendations from the property management company they've hired for maintenance, accounting, etc. In this case it might be that the landscapers did not want to work around and/or maintain a banana plant.
Good point, however,in this case the board requires I maintain the bananas along with the rest as a condition to approval of my lanscaping project. The landscaping company has no interaction with any of my plants.

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 03:34 PM
When they ripen, you should make an offering by shoving one up each and every HOA and property management's tailpipe. :2709:

sputinc7
02-13-2017, 03:46 PM
If it was approved, and since bananas are not trees, I would submit it to the board and fight it. They are in the wrong here. But, that's just me.
Some people will bully you and push you as far as you will allow. Don't fight now, they will start in again with something else. Defend yourself.

Caline
02-13-2017, 03:50 PM
I wasn't going to comment, but ....

One I would review the HOA Landscaping requirements and the terms of your deed.

Two, determine why the banana plants are not allowed. Was it because they simple were not listed on the 2015 approved landscaping plan; or do they not meet other landscaping requirements. Is there an oversight remedy for over looked plants that would have otherwise been approved.

Three, was this HOA committee action or result of a complaint from one owner?

Four, I would request copies of the landscaping plans of the neighbors. Then see if their yards meet all HOA requirements. (which I doubt) Make complaints against them too. Especially, the Owner that complained about your bananas.

If you can stir up enough of the owners, then you might be able to get a landscaping requirements changed and/or approval for your plants. ... This is a situation where some tend to 'bluff' the requirements to get their way or make themselves a 'big-shot' in the HOA. So know exactly what the requirements are; and question the HOA why you are being single out when other owners do not meet the same requirements.

You have laid out a very good plan.
It's worth at least take a look at it.

You are absolutely right about other neighbors non compliance. Over the weekend my camera finger was itching to take pics of BBQs too close to structures, (fire code) canoes, paddleboards etc. stored on front lawns (not allowed) two storey tall trees just 12" from structures. shrubbery also too close to structures(against code), dead potted plants decoratiing patios.
:drum:

Caline
02-13-2017, 03:53 PM
If they were already approved, how in the hell can they "un-approve" them?!

All it would take is a quick definition from an expert to explain that these are plants, and not trees.

Yes, rather ominous. I'm thinking what next.
I could wikipedia them about bananas being herbaceous. LOL

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 04:01 PM
Yes, rather ominous. I'm thinking what next.
I could wikipedia them about bananas being herbaceous. LOLThat may be all it takes. They can't argue with proof.

Last year, I was contacted by a doctor in Exton, PA about some dawn redwoods that were going to be cut down by a developer. The town "expert" refused to acknowledge these trees once grew here and were therefore, native. After several emails detailing my evidence that M occidentalis and glyptostroboides are in fact, the same tree, along with threats to have demonstrators show up and chain themselves to the trees and have the local news there to report (luckily, I'm a writer as well), they relented and publicly recognized the dawn redwood as a native tree to PA. This sets an important precedent.

Now, all you need is someone who knows bananas like I know dawn redwoods (and this site is full of them), and you're all set to get an expert opinion.

HMelendez
02-13-2017, 04:03 PM
When they ripen, you should make an offering by shoving one up each and every HOA and property management's tailpipe. :2709:


LMAO!.......Snarkinator strikes again!.....LOL!...... :2723::bananarow::2723:

Richard
02-13-2017, 04:03 PM
I would request copies of the landscaping plans of the neighbors. Then see if their yards meet all HOA requirements. (which I doubt) Make complaints against them too.

This might be exactly what is driving the owner that made the complaint about your banana!

:woohoonaner:

Caline
02-13-2017, 04:03 PM
If it was approved, and since bananas are not trees, I would submit it to the board and fight it. They are in the wrong here. But, that's just me.
Some people will bully you and push you as far as you will allow. Don't fight now, they will start in again with something else. Defend yourself.

Yes, What next. That's what makes me hesitate to just pot the bananas or make some kind of rebuttal.
Another detail, in the letter to comply, they speak of "recent tree plantings" when in fact they have been in the ground visibly growing for over a year. I don't know what the legal defintion of recent is, but I wonder.

Of course the letter was not certified or anything so I figure I have at least a week to mull things over before acting on the letter.

As I always tell people. No need to look for "drama and excitement", it will come to you, just wait.

Caline
02-13-2017, 04:15 PM
This might be exactly what is driving the owner that made the complaint about your banana!

:woohoonaner:

Who knows, it appears they are the busybody type.
I learned that the same newbies recently had the Board send a letter to cease and desist to another owner about his birdfeeder (prohibited also).

edwmax
02-13-2017, 04:16 PM
You have laid out a very good plan.
It's worth at least take a look at it.

You are absolutely right about other neighbors non compliance. Over the weekend my camera finger was itching to take pics of BBQs too close to structures, (fire code) canoes, paddleboards etc. stored on front lawns (not allowed) two storey tall trees just 12" from structures. shrubbery also too close to structures(against code), dead potted plants decoratiing patios.
:drum:


Then I feel you should make a written reply to the HOA that the 2015 project was and is in full compliance with the approved plan. The banana plants were a part of the project as 'native Florida plants'. ... Then proceed to show the non-compliance of the other home owners; more especially if one is on the HOA board. ...You should have a vote either to election of 'Board Directors' or at Board Meetings.

Richard
02-13-2017, 04:19 PM
Who knows, it appears they are the busybody type.
I learned that the same newbies recently had the Board send a letter to cease and desist to another owner about his birdfeeder (prohibited also).

A hard way to learn about HOA's.

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 04:22 PM
This seems to be a very popular thread/topic. I guess I'm not the only one with animosity toward self-contrived authority (or authority in general).

edwmax
02-13-2017, 05:59 PM
Who knows, it appears they are the busybody type.
I learned that the same newbies recently had the Board send a letter to cease and desist to another owner about his birdfeeder (prohibited also).

It's these 'newbies' that's bucking to get on the board. Then they will be running your life when they do.

A poem by Martin Niemöller:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Snarkie
02-13-2017, 06:12 PM
We need to make that work here...

First they came for the bananas, and I did not speak up because I didn't eat bananas.

Then they came for the bird watchers, but I did not speak up because I was not a bird watcher.

Then they came for organic gardeners, and I did not speak up because I was not a hippie.

Then they came for me, and my cat shot their ass.

edwmax
02-13-2017, 06:17 PM
Who knows, it appears they are the busybody type.
I learned that the same newbies recently had the Board send a letter to cease and desist to another owner about his birdfeeder (prohibited also).

What the h''ll wrong with a Bird Feeder? These poor little birds need to eat too. And they make nice music; little babies in the trees; eat mosquitoes.

I'm with you and DA. I have 14 cat and 6 big birds to sic on them.

Let's roll!

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/DA_Hanks/Hellcat.gif
Borrowed without permission.

meizzwang
02-13-2017, 06:26 PM
You could also try to kill them with kindness and share some of the harvest with the neighbors who are complaining. Stirring up a war and getting back at them is a recipe for sleepless nights and heartache for everyone. Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

If that doesn't work, resort to war, LOL

Kat2
02-13-2017, 07:04 PM
When I worked as a landscaper in Ohio several years ago, I was sent to the HOAs we "weeded" to do my thing. (No, I didn't stoop down and grab anything--weeding was spraying.) And I did some pruning. HOAs there required the street facing sides to be maintained with the approved plantings; back and side yards could be landscaped by the owner within reason. (Sides or backs facing streets that contained verbotten plants were generally allowed to slide.)

My SO owns property where there was once a very active HOA that was not deeded. (Or perhaps it was but the HOA became defunct?) Some are trying to reactivate it but, even with membership fees of $25 annually, there's very little interest. He has planted FL friendly which means citrus and banana "trees". His musas are exposed to winds so, unlike mine, get shredded leaves. Even without any rules, I keep the brownies pruned and also clipped the others until doing so would have left bare P-stems. (Personally I like the shredded leaves but others may not. )

I suspect the issue with banana plants not being approved is that they can look very messy unless you maintain them; I never complained about unapproved plants in "dedicated areas" unless they were highly invasive and not controlled by the homeowner. (I think I mentioned such a case once in 3 years; I weeded 5 HOAs.)

If it's in a pot, they can't say anything. SDCs can be raised that way and would give you fruit. It's something.

sputinc7
02-13-2017, 10:53 PM
From the sound of it you have a bully that moved in. Quickly let him or her know they are not the boss and they will either settle in and deal with their place or move on.
If you let them get their way without a fight, they will never stop.

Kat2
02-14-2017, 08:21 AM
The problem with confronting the bully is that he/she is merely asking that the rules be enforced; even if you succeed in winning them over, the rules don't change. Rather than expend energy on the former, I'd be working with the association to change the list of acceptable plants instead. This is FL--bananas happen here. Who knows? Musas might become a required planting.

Snarkie
02-14-2017, 08:50 AM
The "bully" is usually a busybody who is so full of hate and misery for their own pathetic life, that they feel they must inflict misery on everyone else as well. Every neighborhood has one. Today, they get away with this because of our current society's mindset. When I was a kid, after they did this to a few kids' parents, someone lobbed a brick or an M80 through their picture window and it usually either stopped, or they moved out and inflicted their self-hating misery elsewhere.

Lydie, I feel for you and I'm sorry you have to contend with all of this crap.

Tytaylor77
02-14-2017, 03:00 PM
When I was a kid, after they did this to a few kids' parents, someone lobbed a brick or an M80 through their picture window

They would never guess who threw the banana flower through their window. It's quite fun, they spiral like a football. :goteam:

geosulcata
02-14-2017, 03:25 PM
One interesting fact - in FL, HOAs are not allowed to forbid clotheslines, rainbarrels, or Florida friendly landscaping.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0163/Sections/0163.04.html)

edwmax
02-14-2017, 04:00 PM
One interesting fact - in FL, HOAs are not allowed to forbid clotheslines, rainbarrels, or Florida friendly landscaping.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0163/Sections/0163.04.html)

Where do you find the definition of 'Florida friendly landscaping' as being an 'Energy Device'? ... Although the shading and cooling effects of the banana plant are considerable, I think this would still be a hard sell unless there is an explicit judicial ruling else where as such.

geosulcata
02-14-2017, 04:28 PM
Where do you find the definition of 'Florida friendly landscaping' as being an 'Energy Device'? ... Although the shading and cooling effects of the banana plant are considerable, I think this would still be a hard sell unless there is an explicit judicial ruling else where as such.

That is a different statute found here -http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0373/Sections/0373.185.html

meizzwang
02-14-2017, 04:44 PM
Instead of guessing the motive, perhaps having a good heart to heart talk with the neighbor can resolve this before it becomes a real fight. Who knows, maybe they're reasonable and willing to work with you! Maybe they're trying to sell their house or trying to refinance their home and perceive the banana plant as being out of place and making the surrounding homes look less valuable, which can affect their financial situation. Maybe they want to impress some friends or business associates at their home. Who knows, they might have solutions that work for both of you. Approach them with kindness and understanding, if you approach them with anger and frustration, you can expect them to respond the same way.

If they fire back with bully tactics and zero compromise even though you approach them with open hands, then war is justified.

edwmax
02-14-2017, 08:07 PM
That is a different statute found here -http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0373/Sections/0373.185.html

OK, this is better; but I'm still not sure how banana plants would fit in.

Title XXVIII; 373.185; section 3(b): states: A deed restriction or covenant may not prohibit or be enforced so as to prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land or create any requirement or limitation in conflict with any provision of part II of this chapter ...

Also, I did see under section 1(b): Florida-friendly landscaping includes 'attraction of wildlife'. So for the HOA to ban bird feeders is a violation of this statute.

Anyway, I would tell the HOA their order to remove the banana plants which were planted as part of the approved 'Florida Friendly landscaping' plan is a violation of this Florida Statute.

Caline
02-14-2017, 10:15 PM
We need to make that work here...

First they came for the bananas, and I did not speak up because I didn't eat bananas.

Then they came for the bird watchers, but I did not speak up because I was not a bird watcher.

Then they came for organic gardeners, and I did not speak up because I was not a hippie.

Then they came for me, and my cat shot their ass.

Too Funny !!!

Caline
02-14-2017, 10:47 PM
I suspect the issue with banana plants not being approved is that they can look very messy unless you maintain them; I never complained about unapproved plants in "dedicated areas" unless they were highly invasive and not controlled by the homeowner. (I think I mentioned such a case once in 3 years; I weeded 5 HOAs.)

If it's in a pot, they can't say anything. SDCs can be raised that way and would give you fruit. It's something.

You could be right. I would have to have a conversation with someone to know that.

Here's a pic from my gallery, taken Feb. 11th. It's shows fruit, but you can see some banana leaves are shredded. That seems to be a given with bananas.

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61203><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61203&size=1 border=0></a>

Caline
02-14-2017, 11:14 PM
The problem with confronting the bully is that he/she is merely asking that the rules be enforced; even if you succeed in winning them over, the rules don't change. Rather than expend energy on the former, I'd be working with the association to change the list of acceptable plants instead. This is FL--bananas happen here. Who knows? Musas might become a required planting.

I spoke with a couple agents at UF/Pinellas County Extension about documenting the nature of bananas not being trees. He replied, well yes they're not WOODY trees. Obviously, did not have a clue. He then passed me to a second agent who confirmed they are not trees, but could not specify what.

He asked what HOA rules and regs were concerning plantings in general and their Florida Friendly rules. I informed him there is nothing in the rules about vegetation, only architectural elements.

He mentioned it would be better to wait past any frost dates for transplanting. Pretty mote here, but a good talking point, the Extension agent said..., if somebody wants to know when I'm going to remove the offending bananas.

Right now I am thinking about just cutting all three P-stems back to say waist height after I harvest the bananas on the main P-stem. That would be a first step towards relocating them if I have to. Then maybe contact a board member to have a conversation about the real issue and see if there is a compromise possible.
They really add to my landscape, provide shade on my veranda windows and make a lovely rustling in the breeze, oh so tropical. :waving:

Caline
02-14-2017, 11:21 PM
One interesting fact - in FL, HOAs are not allowed to forbid clotheslines, rainbarrels, or Florida friendly landscaping.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0163/Sections/0163.04.html)

Yes, the extension agent I spoke with (see my previous post) also offhandedly suggested I get my landscaping certified Florida Friendly. He gave me the link and I downloaded the checklist. It appears my garden would qualify, maybe even for Gold status (15 unique native plants). Who knows maybe it would be helpful. Fun anyway.

Caline
02-14-2017, 11:26 PM
Instead of guessing the motive, perhaps having a good heart to heart talk with the neighbor can resolve this before it becomes a real fight. Who knows, maybe they're reasonable and willing to work with you! Maybe they're trying to sell their house or trying to refinance their home and perceive the banana plant as being out of place and making the surrounding homes look less valuable, which can affect their financial situation. Maybe they want to impress some friends or business associates at their home. Who knows, they might have solutions that work for both of you. Approach them with kindness and understanding, if you approach them with anger and frustration, you can expect them to respond the same way.

If they fire back with bully tactics and zero compromise even though you approach them with open hands, then war is justified.
The neighbor is not identified.

Caline
02-14-2017, 11:31 PM
OK, this is better; but I'm still not sure how banana plants would fit in.

Title XXVIII; 373.185; section 3(b): states: A deed restriction or covenant may not prohibit or be enforced so as to prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land or create any requirement or limitation in conflict with any provision of part II of this chapter ...

Also, I did see under section 1(b): Florida-friendly landscaping includes 'attraction of wildlife'. So for the HOA to ban bird feeders is a violation of this statute.

Anyway, I would tell the HOA their order to remove the banana plants which were planted as part of the approved 'Florida Friendly landscaping' plan is a violation of this Florida Statute.

Good information I will add to my research,
So far I have found the Rules and regs say nothing about vegetation or Florida friendly. Having been drawn up by the builder in the 70's and never revised they are long overdue. Not on the HOA list though.

Snarkie
02-15-2017, 08:10 AM
The neighbor is not identified.That's the problem with people nowadays; they hide behind anonymity because they're too scared to say something to your face.

You do, however, have the right to face your accuser in court, so those same rules they hide behind can get you out of complaint-related citations, aerial and two-cop speeding tickets, etc. You simply ask to cross examine the original witness or complainant. When it is responded that are not present, you respectfully request the judge to dismiss the case. In the case of traffic tickets involving planes, helicopters and one cop sitting on the bridge while the other tickets you, as soon as your case is dismissed, the judge will also dismiss everyone else in the court with the same officer involved.

Kudos to Geosulcata and Edwmax for finding those statutes. That's pretty much all an attorney does, which is why they have all those volumes on the shelves behind their desk.

You can also speak with the FL AG's Office for a more detailed explanation on "FL friendly landscaping" and inquire if it includes plants or not. You can't ask legal advice, but you can ask for clear definitions and they are glad to help. It's their job.

Snarkie
02-15-2017, 08:19 AM
They would never guess who threw the banana flower through their window. It's quite fun, they spiral like a football. :goteam:I'll bet they do! They're pretty heavy too.

And for the record, I never threw a brick through anyone's window. It was a chunk of asphalt, and it missed the window. All it did was knock a huge chunk out of one of their cedar clapboards. They stopped all their noise though.

sputinc7
02-15-2017, 08:28 AM
The LAST things I would do would be cutting or digging my plants. They would need to force me to do that. It sounds like you have a good case for keeping them with the Florida friendly landscape rules and all. Go to the next board meeting and present a good case.

Ripsaw
02-15-2017, 08:36 AM
Ed, You are hitting on some things which need to be considered. I have dealt with HOAs and Restrictive Covenants. Usually, you have the ability to appeal and attend an HOA to voice your concerns. But, HOAs are a power unto themselves, and unless you have a strong case, or file suit, you will get nowhere. Usually, someone was told they could not do something and have an axe to grind with everyone else.

Telling you that you cannot plant a Florida friendly landscaping and then not defining "Florida Friendly" or referencing it in the restrictive covenants would allow some interpretation from the most reliable sources such as city or county ordinances, state statutes, Ag Extension, etc.

If they have referenced or allowed other similar plants, then you might use those as making a case that the plant is in the same family or similar adn allowed-- bird of paradise, travelers palm, etc. Force their hand to interpret fairly, allow your day in court so to speak, and challenge the order. But, be prepared to have to remove them quickly (like start the day after).

Covenants vary from place to place but should have some way for you to appeal the decision and consider additional information and expert testimony such as letter by the ag agent or city landscape architect or planner.

I had a property owner rail to the HOA that I illegally put up a play house with swing and slide for my son only to find out that he put up a chain link fence on his property for his dogs without approval. Unfortunately, he was on the HOA so got his approval. I used my own expert testimony to make their lives miserable and this giving into letting me keep the playhouse as it was not clearly defined. My profession made me the expert.

I hope my two-cents helps. Good luck!
:2722:

I wasn't going to comment, but ....

One I would review the HOA Landscaping requirements and the terms of your deed.

Two, determine why the banana plants are not allowed. Was it because they simple were not listed on the 2015 approved landscaping plan; or do they not meet other landscaping requirements. Is there an oversight remedy for over looked plants that would have otherwise been approved.

Three, was this HOA committee action or result of a complaint from one owner?

Four, I would request copies of the landscaping plans of the neighbors. Then see if their yards meet all HOA requirements. (which I doubt) Make complaints against them too. Especially, the Owner that complained about your bananas.

If you can stir up enough of the owners, then you might be able to get a landscaping requirements changed and/or approval for your plants. ... This is a situation where some tend to 'bluff' the requirements to get their way or make themselves a 'big-shot' in the HOA. So know exactly what the requirements are; and question the HOA why you are being single out when other owners do not meet the same requirements.

Ripsaw
02-15-2017, 08:44 AM
Good information I will add to my research,
So far I have found the Rules and regs say nothing about vegetation or Florida friendly. Having been drawn up by the builder in the 70's and never revised they are long overdue. Not on the HOA list though.

Usually, there is a length of time that the rules need to be reviewed and updated. Some, it is 20 years, others, 25, 30, and 50 years. Check state statutes and the restrictive covenants itself. Should be a date there. Maybe you could delay the removal of the bananas.

Ripsaw
02-15-2017, 10:20 AM
Here is the State Site for Statutes governing HOAs but does not include the miscellaneous things such as Florida Friendly Plants as discussed previously.

Chapter 720 - 2013 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate (http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2013/Chapter720/All)

Here is a good resource for "Florida Friendly Plants" put out by the IFAS which might help you. Musa Spp is listed as a FFP.

http://fyn.ifas.ufl.edu/pdf/FYN_Plant_Selection_Guide_2015.pdf

Kat2
02-15-2017, 07:42 PM
Lydie, I'd love to have the link for certification; I read the one posted by Ripsaw (MRES) and know that I adhere to the 9 goals. Not sure if I have the right plants. Do I need a "gold star"? Nope. But since moving to FL I've become very much more dedicated to doing my best to make my little spot in this world much more friendly to Mother Nature.

Caline
02-15-2017, 08:23 PM
The LAST things I would do would be cutting or digging my plants. They would need to force me to do that. It sounds like you have a good case for keeping them with the Florida friendly landscape rules and all. Go to the next board meeting and present a good case.
I might have a case, but in face of resistance the board could just rescind their approval altogether and order removal of all plantings...

Caline
02-15-2017, 08:27 PM
Usually, there is a length of time that the rules need to be reviewed and updated. Some, it is 20 years, others, 25, 30, and 50 years. Check state statutes and the restrictive covenants itself. Should be a date there. Maybe you could delay the removal of the bananas.

Thanks, I didn't know about that. I will look into it.

Caline
02-15-2017, 08:39 PM
But since moving to FL I've become very much more dedicated to doing my best to make my little spot in this world much more friendly to Mother Nature.

Yes me too. My FF landscaping is also a first experiment in permaculture related practices. Even my mulch is FF Florimulch.

Here's the link to the Florida Friendly Landscaping Certification.
Florida Friendly Checklist (http://ffl.ifas.ufl.edu/materials/FYN_Yard_Recognition_Checklist.pdf)

Kat2
02-15-2017, 10:24 PM
Yes me too. My FF landscaping is also a first experiment in permaculture related practices. Even my mulch is FF Florimulch.

Here's the link to the Florida Friendly Landscaping Certification.
Florida Friendly Checklist (http://ffl.ifas.ufl.edu/materials/FYN_Yard_Recognition_Checklist.pdf)Phooey, I doubt I'd pass their test. I'm not an organic gardener nor am I at all organized; what grows at my place does despite my "ignorance" of them. I'm admittedly lazy and cheap so I try to let things happen on their own. I do get free compost (can't make enough from my stuff to do much) and wood chips from the County; I'm positive it's not "organic" but it is made of organic inputs. And I use a little Neem and generic RU when I get around to it; I prefer to compost weeds. Planned to mulch my entire 1/3 acre but now that my lawnmower is working will keep some green in front to make my neighbor happier.

I have trapped 2 Cuban frogs and disposed of them as FL requests. Ick. (Why no points for taking them and air potatoes out?) I encourage black snakes in my yard even though I despise snakes; they invariably hide under a tarp or something else so when I disturb their nesting places I shriek and they scurry away quickly. (They return and I resolve to not startle again.) Butterflies love the red flowered bushes that were here when I arrived. I learned when selling RE in the 70s up north that you need to observe plantings for at least a year to see what is there so I did that here and still am 2+ years later because, as I said, I'm lazy. But because I am, I now get to watch hummingbirds and bees duking it out: cheap thrills.

But, hey, even if I don't meet "their" standards I know I'm doing something right. My jungle is filled with nature. BTW, before moving here, lizards were sure to give me a heart attack; I'm still alive so it seems I've adapted.

Caline
02-16-2017, 01:55 PM
Phooey, I doubt I'd pass their test. I'm not an organic gardener nor am I at all organized.

I don't see where the Florida Friendly requires organic.

It's guidelines refer to water management issues and pollution minimization in the landscape. As far as plants themselves, the checklist includes having some Florida natives and no invasive species.

Kat2
02-16-2017, 03:17 PM
I don't see where the Florida Friendly requires organic.

It's guidelines refer to water management issues and pollution minimization in the landscape. As far as plants themselves, the checklist includes having some Florida natives and no invasive species.I'm sorry if I implied they required organic; they don't. Indeed, they don't really restrict the types of herbicides/fertilizers/insecticides but do expect timing and amounts to be what I consider common sense; it's amazing to me how many pricey chemicals people waste on their landscapes with the runoff ending up in waterways. If I could get green tree frogs to populate my yard, I'd be a happy camper. If I ever find a praying mantis in my space, I'll be doing cartwheels. No chance of that if I over treat my domain.

I'm still in the planning stages at this point and it doesn't help that I am still totally clueless about what plants grow/thrive here. I have discovered that bananas are quite happy in FL. :ha:

ETA: Their list includes plants I might like to grow--coconut is one. Surinam cherry is also on the list. I don't believe either of those are invasive but then again I don't have either of those. I don't mind following their goals but their plant list sounds like some HOA made it up. ;)

Caline
03-05-2017, 09:18 PM
Good news update. I met with a HOA board member at my home a few days ago, to have a conversation. I asked him if he could please explain a bit more the thinking behind the letter demanding I remove my bananas. since they'd been there over a year already. He told me he didn't know who had made the complaint, had received a copy of the letter but had not looked into it and just assumed it was my closest neighbor.
Thankfully, I had spoken with the neighbor the previous evening and that neighbor told me how nice the tropical garden looks with the bananas.

The Board guy seemd glad to hear the neighbor was okay with the banana plants and noted that these complaints invariably arise during "Snowbird season" (January thru April) and since it was not the neighbor then this was most likely a winter tourist.

The basis of the removal letter was that I had planted bananas "trees" whereas no trees were specified in my landscape project. I told him that bananas are not trees but "herbaceous stalks" that are cut down after bearing fruit. He asked how long they grow and I said about 15 months including fruiting. I then handed him a printout on banana morphology I found at promusa.org.

He then asked to visit the garden, saying he had not checked out my landscaping since approval in 2015. He checked that the bananas did not block anyone’s view (we're on the intracoastal waterway so view is king) and were not taller than other trees around. I had him touch/squeeze the fruiting banana plant pseudo stem so he could feel it was not a tree trunk (I'm talking laymen here, hands on).

He was surprised at the stalk being full of water. He proceeded to take pictures and looked around, noting that my closest neighbor has a permanent tree at least as tall as my bananas, not on any project...

He concluded I don't have to remove the bananas because they are not permanent and are not trees anyway. He said he would talk to the rest of the board, and told me I didn't need to remove anything, that the matter was closed.
He requested I keep them reproducing stems towards the middle of my landscape bed so as to avoid any encroachement. Easy peasy!

It was so relieved and happy to hear that. The whole thing had really put me in a funk. Not only is it fascinating to watch bananas grow and bear fruit, they lend lovely tropical shade to my veranda windows and make a wonderful rustling sound in the breeze.

:birthdaynana:
:bananas_b
:woohoonaner:
:0517:
:0519:

Mark Dragt
03-05-2017, 09:32 PM
That's fantastic news!!!! Thanks for the update!
:woohoonaner:

CraigSS
03-07-2017, 10:18 AM
This is why you do not live in a HOA neighborhood!

edwmax
03-07-2017, 06:43 PM
:nanadrink: .... :goteam: ....
... :2750: ...

Great!

john_ny
03-07-2017, 08:50 PM
I can say that I would never live in a place where they had a HOA. I live in Staten Island, NY. We are part of New York City, but we're nothing like the rest of the city. We have fields and woods, but no sky scrapers. We do have one thing, though, that is worse than HOA's. We have the city Buildings Department. Some time ago, I decided I wanted a greenhouse. My brother, at the time, lived across the street from a senior inspector in the department, so I asked him what I had to do to put up a greenhouse. His reply was that they usually didn't do anything unless they had a complaint. So, I put the house up and, sure enough, some time later, we had a complaint. An inspector came around, and told me I had to take it down. (He could hardly speak English.) When I did what I was told, they still fined me $900.00.

Strong bird farm
03-08-2017, 08:06 AM
It's not a tree. Run with that!

Kegas76
03-08-2017, 09:15 AM
I can say that I would never live in a place where they had a HOA. ...

Sometimes you need to put up with an HOA if you want to live less than half a mile from the beach.:2730::islandsharkbanana::kiteflyingnanergif:

Caline
03-08-2017, 04:05 PM
I can say that I would never live in a place where they had a HOA. I live in Staten Island, NY. We are part of New York City, but we're nothing like the rest of the city. We have fields and woods, but no sky scrapers. We do have one thing, though, that is worse than HOA's. We have the city Buildings Department. Some time ago, I decided I wanted a greenhouse. My brother, at the time, lived across the street from a senior inspector in the department, so I asked him what I had to do to put up a greenhouse. His reply was that they usually didn't do anything unless they had a complaint. So, I put the house up and, sure enough, some time later, we had a complaint. An inspector came around, and told me I had to take it down. (He could hardly speak English.) When I did what I was told, they still fined me $900.00.

Wow. That's rough.

Ripsaw
03-17-2017, 01:11 PM
Sometimes that is all it takes-- open discussion and common sense! We all learned a little here, especially to avoid HOAs!! LOL!

:woohoonaner: :goteam:

Good news update. I met with a HOA board member at my home a few days ago, to have a conversation. I asked him if he could please explain a bit more the thinking behind the letter demanding I remove my bananas. since they'd been there over a year already. He told me he didn't know who had made the complaint, had received a copy of the letter but had not looked into it and just assumed it was my closest neighbor.
Thankfully, I had spoken with the neighbor the previous evening and that neighbor told me how nice the tropical garden looks with the bananas.

The Board guy seemd glad to hear the neighbor was okay with the banana plants and noted that these complaints invariably arise during "Snowbird season" (January thru April) and since it was not the neighbor then this was most likely a winter tourist.

The basis of the removal letter was that I had planted bananas "trees" whereas no trees were specified in my landscape project. I told him that bananas are not trees but "herbaceous stalks" that are cut down after bearing fruit. He asked how long they grow and I said about 15 months including fruiting. I then handed him a printout on banana morphology I found at promusa.org.

He then asked to visit the garden, saying he had not checked out my landscaping since approval in 2015. He checked that the bananas did not block anyone’s view (we're on the intracoastal waterway so view is king) and were not taller than other trees around. I had him touch/squeeze the fruiting banana plant pseudo stem so he could feel it was not a tree trunk (I'm talking laymen here, hands on).

He was surprised at the stalk being full of water. He proceeded to take pictures and looked around, noting that my closest neighbor has a permanent tree at least as tall as my bananas, not on any project...

He concluded I don't have to remove the bananas because they are not permanent and are not trees anyway. He said he would talk to the rest of the board, and told me I didn't need to remove anything, that the matter was closed.
He requested I keep them reproducing stems towards the middle of my landscape bed so as to avoid any encroachement. Easy peasy!

It was so relieved and happy to hear that. The whole thing had really put me in a funk. Not only is it fascinating to watch bananas grow and bear fruit, they lend lovely tropical shade to my veranda windows and make a wonderful rustling sound in the breeze.

:birthdaynana:
:bananas_b
:woohoonaner:
:0517:
:0519:

Caline
03-20-2017, 08:52 PM
Sometimes that is all it takes-- open discussion and common sense! We all learned a little here, especially to avoid HOAs!! LOL!

:woohoonaner: :goteam:

Yeah, avoid HOAs absolutely, but know City building departments can be just as difficult.