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Velutina
05-25-2008, 12:41 PM
A freind pointed me to this website a few days ago and I have to say... I LOVE IT!! Im 26m living in Salt Lake City (zone 6), and moving to Las Vegas in a month or so. I've been growing bananas since I was in junior high. Growing bananas in Utah has been fun with the low humidity, hot hot summers and cold winters. Anyways, here are some photos of my banana past...

My first banana plant I got to flower (velutina)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/yarx8/scan0002.jpg



Looking into my banana-filled greenhouse. Dwarf cavendish and papaya
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/yarx8/scan0004.jpg


I needed a larger greenhouse! Dwarf orinoco on left and Red Iholene on right. Dwarf Orinoco flowered a week before the first frost :(
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/yarx8/scan0001.jpg


Musa basjoo doing very well after being covered in snow all winter...
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/yarx8/scan0003.jpg





:bananarow:

MediaHound
05-25-2008, 12:44 PM
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/yarx8/scan0001.jpg



:woohoonaner:


Love it!

Welcome aboard!

Velutina
05-25-2008, 12:52 PM
Thanks! Here's my banana collection today. I have Ensete glaucum, Ensete ventricosum, Musella lasiocarpa, Musa velutina, Musa ornata, Musa violacea, Musa sikkimensis, Daj giant, Musa basjoo, and Musa zebrina. Pretty much all grown from seeds.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/yarx8/0523081603.jpg


Basjoo and zebrina
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/yarx8/0523081607.jpg

MediaHound
05-25-2008, 12:56 PM
Awesome collection you have there! Hope you have room!! :)

magicgreen
05-25-2008, 01:28 PM
Welcome!! :2744:Welcome!! :0492: Welcome!!:2129:

You have done great~!!:2706:

Do you heat that green house? :2185: How did you germinate the seeds? :2185:
How did you over winter your basjoo? :2185:

Enquiring mind wants to know!! :bunchonanas:
Thanks in advance!
Lynn

Velutina
05-25-2008, 02:38 PM
Thanks! :)

The greenhouse was heated with a 20,000 BTU natural gas heater.

To germinate the seeds, I used the regular germination flats with the humidome. I used black magic germination mix and used germination heat mats (on 24/7). I had a ton of Ensete sprouts within 2-3 weeks and musa sprouts in 1-2 months.

To overwinter the basjoo, I wrapped the stalks in plastic, placed a wire cage around the stalks and filled it up with leaves. Then placed a large tarp over the whole thing to keep it dry. The stalks survived, but the offshoots easily outgrew the larger stalks. The plant died the next winter from rot.

Randy4ut
05-25-2008, 02:56 PM
Velutina,
Welcome aboard!!! What a great job you have done. How did you learn about all this without ever hearing of banana.org!?!?! Man, I found this place after I had basjoo and velutina and thought that was about all I could have around here. You have done a wonderful job and looks like you could give ALOT of us some advice and you are a very accomplished banana man!!! Please make yourself at home and be sure to give us your two cents on anything you feel would help. If there is anything you have questions about or need anything, let out a "shout" as there are some pretty awesome folks here as well....

Velutina
05-25-2008, 03:14 PM
Thank you Randy! Bananas.org, where have you been all my life?? lol I have searched many many times for a website like this, but never found anything even close to this website! I learned how to grow bananas by searching the archives at the library at the university I was attending. The main books I read were those written for commercial banana farmers which were hundreds of pages of banana insanity! I majored in biology, which I give a lot of credit to my early interest in banana plants.

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome... I think I found my new home page ;)

lorax
05-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Is that a cute little Papaya tree I spot growing in the door of your greenhouse? Congrats on getting one to grow in Utah!

Commercial banana farming is bananinsanity in and of itself.... Very very different from home or even market-garden cultivation.

mskitty38583
05-25-2008, 05:36 PM
welcome to the org! love the nanas sticking out the gh. thats great. you have done a wonderful job of nana growing.:banana_ba:2223::2121::2762::simpatica

STEELVIPER
05-25-2008, 05:54 PM
Great pics. :waving:

Chironex
05-28-2008, 11:24 AM
I was glad to hear that you will be moving to Vegas. I am going to be moving there in about a month or so. You, Damaclese and I will have to get together to figure out how we can grow bananas in the desert!
I am new to growing bananas, but undaunted by the challenges we face there. There has to be a way. See you soon and welcome to the club!

Velutina
05-28-2008, 11:55 AM
Scot, I lived there last year for a bit and I have to say... gardening had never been so difficult!!! It took me over an hour to dig a hole for a small palm. The soil is super hard and rocky!! We'll find a way though! Do I see the start of the world-famous Banana Association of Las Vegas?? lol, perhaps:banana_ba

:bananarow:

rhymechizel
05-29-2008, 01:32 AM
Adam- With all the help you've given me I'm glad I could at least direct you to this cool site.

Adam (Velutina) got me facinated with Utah banana growing. I got my first plants from him a few weeks ago and now I have planted around 20 banana trees in my little 1/4 acre lot.

Chironex
05-29-2008, 08:04 PM
Adam, We need to start our LV Banana Club for sure. I think of us, (you too Pauly), as pioneers in arid Banana development. Can you see us producing some hybrids that actually thrive in the desert? What a great opportunity to further the range of bananas. It could happen....couldn't it???
See you soon.

damaclese
05-29-2008, 08:24 PM
Scot, I lived there last year for a bit and I have to say... gardening had never been so difficult!!! It took me over an hour to dig a hole for a small palm. The soil is super hard and rocky!! We'll find a way though! Do I see the start of the world-famous Banana Association of Las Vegas?? lol, perhaps:banana_ba

:bananarow:boy don't we know it but their's some really simple tricks for digging holes here first after you dig the first 6 inch and hit the first rocks get ones of the guarding tine cultivators then u use it to rake the rocks loose buy a good one with heavy tines also i for got to mention you can water the spot vary throughly the day before that helps a lot but in the end digging a hole is hard work i say drink Bourbon before it makes it a hole lot more fun lol J/K

o and by the way welcome to are banana world we got lots of nuts but were not crazy!lol and welcome to Vegas you are now officially a Desert rat!

damaclese
05-29-2008, 08:34 PM
Adam, We need to start our LV Banana Club for sure. I think of us, (you too Pauly), as pioneers in arid Banana development. Can you see us producing some hybrids that actually thrive in the desert? What a great opportunity to further the range of bananas. It could happen....couldn't it???
See you soon.
i love your optimism we can try although i don't have lots of experience with bananas although my ice cream's are doing grate they both have there first leafs now they seem kinda pail to me but I'm protecting them most of the day

magicgreen
05-29-2008, 08:54 PM
I have an ice cream also!
I have not protected since first putting in the ground in early April spring weather, when the weather man said we might have frost! And its still doing well here in Ohio.

Kylie2x
05-30-2008, 12:24 PM
ROFL!!! I DO think you need a bigger GH!!!
Welcome!!! Everything looks Awesome!
Kylie

damaclese
05-30-2008, 08:26 PM
ROFL!!! I DO think you need a bigger GH!!!
Welcome!!! Everything looks Awesome!
Kylie

whats a GH?

mskitty38583
05-30-2008, 09:51 PM
a green house. we like to use as few letters as possible so we abbriviate a lot.:bananaflipflop:

Velutina
05-30-2008, 11:22 PM
Adam, We need to start our LV Banana Club for sure. I think of us, (you too Pauly), as pioneers in arid Banana development. Can you see us producing some hybrids that actually thrive in the desert? What a great opportunity to further the range of bananas. It could happen....couldn't it???
See you soon.

Absolutely, we'll experiment with lots of varieties and see what does best. I definately want to try Rajapuri and Orinoco, which did best in Salt Lake City. :2237:


Thanks for the digging tips Pauly. I will definately try the bourbon tip:nanadrink:

Chironex
05-31-2008, 12:04 AM
Greenhouse. Can't wait to see yours Pauly. If it isn't finished when i get there, I can help you.

Chironex
05-31-2008, 12:14 AM
Adam, I just got an Ice Cream and a Double Mahoi today. Aeae is on its way and a Dwarf Brazilian, 'Johnson' Dwarf Cavendish, Orinoco, Manzano Sweet Apple and Kru are coming soon. I already have a Dwarf Namwah, Truly Tiny and a Raja Puri. Plus seeds for a bunch of others like Musa X Paradisiaca, Balbisiana, Yunanesnsis, Yunamensis, Thai Gold, Lasiocarpa, Zebrina, Darjeeling, Dwarf Cav, Coccinea, Abyssinian, Ornata, Velutina and Violacea. So, we should have a ball!!!
Trying to get some Mysore for making heat-tolerant crosses too. Don't know how to do it yet, maybe the experts here can give us the "how to's" Hot bananas, you bet!:2208:

Pablo Vega
05-31-2008, 05:02 AM
Adam, great photos!!! You really need a bigger green house.

Welcome.

damaclese
05-31-2008, 07:26 AM
a green house. we like to use as few letters as possible so we abbriviate a lot.:bananaflipflop: heheheh
dohhhhhh sorry kitty!

damaclese
05-31-2008, 07:31 AM
Adam, I just got an Ice Cream and a Double Mahoi today. Aeae is on its way and a Dwarf Brazilian, 'Johnson' Dwarf Cavendish, Orinoco, Manzano Sweet Apple and Kru are coming soon. I already have a Dwarf Namwah, Truly Tiny and a Raja Puri. Plus seeds for a bunch of others like Musa X Paradisiaca, Balbisiana, Yunanesnsis, Yunamensis, Thai Gold, Lasiocarpa, Zebrina, Darjeeling, Dwarf Cav, Coccinea, Abyssinian, Ornata, Velutina and Violacea. So, we should have a ball!!!
Trying to get some Mysore for making heat-tolerant crosses too. Don't know how to do it yet, maybe the experts here can give us the "how to's" Hot bananas, you bet!:2208:
To create hybrids wouldn't you just try to pollinate the flower between the two X to create the new sport I'm not sure how you would cross two that don't produce seeds Gab is a wiz with all that Tc and seed divisions maybe he could help you out

Chironex
05-31-2008, 09:24 AM
Hi Pauly, You're correct - I don't know much when it gets to the whole diplod, triploid, stuff, but I am willing to learn. Perhaps there is a way to cross two unseeded varieties to create a sport (?) or hybrid????
Gabe might be willing to tell us how it is done. I don't know what is would cost to get into tissue cultures, as it might run into some big money to buy and maintain all of the ideal scientific equipment necessary.
So we know that Mysore (the most heat-tolerant banana) doesn't produce seeds and is edible. Then we want to cross it with something less heat-tolerant to try and develop more heat and humidity tolerant characteristics in the new hybrid. I imagine that we would need to culture the cross-fertilized embryos somehow, right? How do we do this properly?
Any help out there? Are we headed in the right direction?

Velutina
05-31-2008, 02:52 PM
From what I understand about banana genetics, here is what we would need to do.

First we would want to find a diploid banana that shows significant heat/low humidity tolerance. Once this is done, then we can cross it with a triploid such as mysore (AAB). You should end up with a seeded fruit with tetraploid seeds (ie AABB, AAAB, etc) This banana is then allowed flower and this plant is crossed with another diploid plant. The result should be seeds of a triploid plant. And hope your new plant has the desired traits from the diploid plants you crossed the mysore with. Sound easy? This sounds like something that would need to be done in the tropics where simultaneous flowering of your two plants could more easily be controlled.

But there may be another way I don't know about??

Velutina
05-31-2008, 03:03 PM
Or the more practical solution... Grow lots of different varieties and stick with the ones that grow best. Keep growing these varieties and hope for a sport sucker that improves on the parent.

Or, grow the varieties that show the most promise and work on tweaking the environmental conditions to allow the plant to do better. (ie, different soil types, shade, etc)

One thing i'm planning on doing is setting up a solar collector to heat a 600-1000 gallon water tank. This water can then be used at night to flow through underground pipes underneath the banana plants to keep the roots/corm warm during cold nights. Warm soil will also radiate up and keep the air warmer, especially with a simple PVC temporary greenhouse. I'm not too sure if the bananas will respond positively to this or not, but it might be worth a try. (ie warm roots, cold leaves might cause stress... and warm roots/warm air might cause growth during months you want dormancy)

Chironex
05-31-2008, 04:33 PM
Adam, I can't wait to get started! We could simulate the tropics in the greenhouse to encourage simultaneous blooming, or figure out the time frames and keep the faster bloomer a bit cooler to delay it until the slower species blooms.
We could try all of the above to see what we can come up with. Worst case scenario, we end up with tons of bananas!!!
As a thought provoker, I think we should try to find the lightest colored leaf banana to deal with the intense sun. If we can also find wind resistance and low humidity traits, we might come up with desert, dessert bananas! My mind is racing.........

dablo93
06-01-2008, 02:48 AM
welcome on the forum! I like your greenhouse:D
I hope that I will have also a flowr this year on one of my ornamental musas (laterita, ornata, velutina, siamensis, coccinea, milky way, red ruby, royal burgundy)

damaclese
06-01-2008, 07:27 AM
Adam, I can't wait to get started! We could simulate the tropics in the greenhouse to encourage simultaneous blooming, or figure out the time frames and keep the faster bloomer a bit cooler to delay it until the slower species blooms.
We could try all of the above to see what we can come up with. Worst case scenario, we end up with tons of bananas!!!
As a thought provoker, I think we should try to find the lightest colored leaf banana to deal with the intense sun. If we can also find wind resistance and low humidity traits, we might come up with desert, dessert bananas! My mind is racing......... wouldn't we want to be looking for Bananas with thicker heaver leafs
IE more succulent in nature?

damaclese
06-01-2008, 07:33 AM
Or the more practical solution... Grow lots of different varieties and stick with the ones that grow best. Keep growing these varieties and hope for a sport sucker that improves on the parent.

Or, grow the varieties that show the most promise and work on tweaking the environmental conditions to allow the plant to do better. (ie, different soil types, shade, etc)

One thing i'm planning on doing is setting up a solar collector to heat a 600-1000 gallon water tank. This water can then be used at night to flow through underground pipes underneath the banana plants to keep the roots/corm warm during cold nights. Warm soil will also radiate up and keep the air warmer, especially with a simple PVC temporary greenhouse. I'm not too sure if the bananas will respond positively to this or not, but it might be worth a try. (ie warm roots, cold leaves might cause stress... and warm roots/warm air might cause growth during months you want dormancy)
Adam my Bananas are in pots so there soil gets quite warm they look as if they are doing fine in this state but i do have to water allot go check out my thread on growing banana in desert conditions thread it simply and observational log but i could use so advice on how to proceed and what to look for

Velutina
06-01-2008, 01:38 PM
I agree about looking for the thicker leaves. i have a feeling the bananas that will do best will either be diploids, or triploids with partial balbisiana genome (AAB, ABB, etc). Just a prediction. Pauly, have you tried Rajapuri yet?