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edwmax
08-14-2016, 06:29 PM
I joined to read the thread about cutting the pup from the mother tree. ... A week ago I noticed my banana trees turning yellow and dying. Now I realized the EMC sprayed the trees with weed killer. These were two large groups of trees about 20 years old (mother bulbs).

This afternoon I chopped the tops off the tree in hopes of being able to save some of the old mother bulbs. There were a couple of pups which didn't have burned leaves. These I hope cut off and replant.

The big banana group had 20 trees 6" diameter and a number of smaller trees. The other group had at least 12 big trees and several smaller trees.

But I believe it is too late to save them.

JP
08-14-2016, 06:39 PM
Pics and location please.

edwmax
08-14-2016, 07:18 PM
My location is Cairo Georgia. Which is about 35 miles North of Tallahassee Fl.

edwmax
08-14-2016, 08:31 PM
Pictures
http://caironet.com/banana/Banana%2Dpic1.JPG

http://caironet.com/banana/Banana%2Dpic2.jpg

Snarkie
08-15-2016, 09:29 AM
Welcome aboard the Banana Express. :nanerwaveytrain:

The tops are still green and alive, so they may still be okay. What is EMC and why did they spray your trees? Are they on your own property?

edwmax
08-15-2016, 10:53 AM
The action of glyphosate or herbicides is to enter through the leaves and travel down to the roots to kill the plant at the roots. The green leaves you see just didn't get very much herbicides on them at the time. ... All the pups have died. I've dug one pup and put it in a pot (may be??).

This morning, I have cut the all the remaining stalks in hopes that some of the roots might survive. I also called TyTy nursery for advice, they stated the same cut the trees to stop the herbicide(hope for the best), but also indicated it not likely the trees will survive.

The EMC Rep. just looked at the banana trees and admits they were sprayed by their subcontractor. He also told me to get an estimate of the damage and they will turn in a claim.

How do you value 20 year old plants like this? One corm has 4 (10 inch dia. at the base) stalks growing from it. This corm must be about 18" -20" dia. These two groups had 30 plus stalks (6" dia) not counting the pups.

Kat2
08-15-2016, 01:01 PM
Banana plants have a relatively short life cycle; if the corm is alive, they will grow again. If the entire system is dead then the value is replacement PLUS what you lost in fruit and time. What kind were they? How many?

In the 90s I had a bearing 4 year old fruit cocktail tree killed in backyard flood caused by the water company. New I'd paid less than $30 and replacement cost was virtually the same. Value? $30, right? I had an arborist give me an estimate of value; I was paid $800. Money wasn't the issue for me; I lost much more IMO but even a bazillion dollars wouldn't have made my heart happy.

Put your location in your profile so that others in your area can better answer your questions.

edwmax
08-15-2016, 01:22 PM
The 2 groups had 30 Plus stalks 6" dia. One of the corms had 4 (10 inch dia. at the base) stalks growing. This mother corm (or group) was about 18" to 20" dia. These bananas grew to 10 to 12 ft tall. and had 6" fruit. I don't know what the verity was. But being 20 years old, they were very cold hardy.

edwmax
08-15-2016, 01:37 PM
Banana plants have a relatively short life cycle; if the corm is alive, they will grow again. If the entire system is dead then the value is replacement PLUS what you lost in fruit and time. What kind were they? How many?

In the 90s I had a bearing 4 year old fruit cocktail tree killed in backyard flood caused by the water company. New I'd paid less than $30 and replacement cost was virtually the same. Value? $30, right? I had an arborist give me an estimate of value; I was paid $800. Money wasn't the issue for me; I lost much more IMO but even a bazillion dollars wouldn't have made my heart happy.

Put your location in your profile so that others in your area can better answer your questions.



Yes, but you had 4 years of labor & expenses growing the tree. So the $800 was to pay that cost or to pay the cost a 4 year old tree replacement; as well as lost fruit production. This would be the only way to make you 'whole' again.


I understand that money wasn't the issue, but a 4 year old tree was.


My case, I was told the herbicide crew thought the banana trees were wild and sprayed them. ***Banana trees don't grow wild in Georgia (USA)!!! ... Some one planted it!

Kat2
08-15-2016, 01:43 PM
My point is that asking for more than replacement value is not unexpected; they have a budget for their negligence. How much? I don't know. I was nervous asking for $800; in hindsight I realize I might have gotten more since they paid without question so apparently $800 was reasonable to them. (My arborist letter probably helped.) So be reasonable in your request. How many plants? How much to replace them? Then add in what you've lost in time and fruit by their irresponsible actions.

edwmax
08-15-2016, 04:03 PM
Exactly ... I'm looking for an Arborist now to make an opinion as to the value of these banana trees. I hope with the arborist opinion the EMC will be glad to pay for 12 new plants so I can start over. ... May be I can rent a truck and come down to one of the members here to buy the corms/plants I need.

Just for info, my County Extension Agent called before lunch today, he said used the price of $180 (TyTy price for 5 year old plant) times 4 times (20 years) the number of plants lost. That's over $21,000.00 ... I wish!!!!

Kat2
08-15-2016, 05:47 PM
Your patch made have been planted 20 years ago but none of your plants are 20 years old; they are at most 5 years of age and that's probably stretching it. These are not trees; they are herbaceous perennials. If a GA arborist claims to know about them or their value I'd be highly suspicious of his/her credentials and credibility. Your agriculture department does not have a clue ($21K? Really?) but should be able to recommend a knowledgeable professional who can give you a valid estimate. Ask for $21K and the company who wants to be reasonable will suggest a meeting in court.

edwmax
08-15-2016, 06:20 PM
Yes, I know that!

edwmax
08-15-2016, 08:17 PM
Your patch made have been planted 20 years ago but none of your plants are 20 years old; they are at most 5 years of age and that's probably stretching it. ....



I have to disagree with that statement, ... because if that were true then 5 year old plants from TyTy nursery would be useless. They would already be at the end of their life. ... Even if the plants did live another couple of years the price would not be an economical investment.

This reference ( https://permies.com/t/8972/plants/Banana-suckers-croms-banana-circlesindicates ) indicates corms can live 15+ years.

Before we get into an argument, I do know some varieties of corms may have a shorter life span. And, I am still looking for additional collaboration of the corm 15+ year life span.

Kat2
08-15-2016, 08:35 PM
Read better. I said none of your plants are more than 5 years of age.

BTW, is that a private road? Does the electric company have an easement for under and around their poles? If your plants were not on your unencumbered property then you quite probably have no claim. The tree for which I was paid was in my backyard.

sputinc7
08-15-2016, 08:42 PM
The insurance agents have no idea what they are worth and also have no clue the county extension agent doesn't know, I would submit his estimate and see what happens. You might just get paid. Do you know what insurance companies pay hospitals for two ibuprofen? AND, they know what those are really worth.

BTW.. They may just make it. Those are big plants. I spray weeds along my fence all the time with glyphosate and most of them come back after a while.

edwmax
08-16-2016, 07:04 AM
[QUOTE=Kat2;297177]Read better. I said none of your plants are more than 5 years of age.

BTW, is that a private road? Does the electric company have an easement for under and around their poles? If your plants were not on your unencumbered property then you quite probably have no claim. The tree for which I was paid was in my backyard.[/QUOTE

I read just fine, thank you. May be depends on your definition of 'plant'. My definition, the plant is the under-ground corm and the above ground part/tree is simply a stem. The corm is like a potato with several growing points/eyes. And, like a potato the corm can be cut up into smaller corms pieces to grow new trees like the commercial nurseries do.

... The big stalks seen above ground are not more than 2 years old, plus or minus a few months. But the corms don't die when the stalks do. They (corms) live for many years. It is the BIG corms that are able to support & grow large multiple large fruit bearing stalks which can survive single digit temperatures in the winter. And these patches have been through very low freezing weather.

...In the winter, I cut the stalks back to 3 or 4 ft height. The large stalk at this point is able to keep the plant stem/tree from freezing and this is growth that doesn't have to be made the following spring.

The road is public and the R/W stops at the back of the ditch. The power lines are setting on PRIVATE property without a granted easement. BTW, my property line is the center of that road and there is no deeded easement to the county.

edwmax
08-16-2016, 07:14 AM
The insurance agents have no idea what they are worth and also have no clue the county extension agent doesn't know, I would submit his estimate and see what happens. You might just get paid. Do you know what insurance companies pay hospitals for two ibuprofen? AND, they know what those are really worth.

BTW.. They may just make it. Those are big plants. I spray weeds along my fence all the time with glyphosate and most of them come back after a while.

That I'm hoping for! But all the pups are dead. I have already cut all the tops to stop the more herbicide going to the corm/roots. So I hope some of the corms might survive. ... Because of the large size of the stems is why the trees have not died and turned brown as fast as the weeds pictured. However, the damage has been done. BTW, the green leaves shown in the pictures were not green 24 hours later.

Snarkie
08-16-2016, 07:45 AM
The road is public and the R/W stops at the back of the ditch. The power lines are setting on PRIVATE property without a granted easement. BTW, my property line is the center of that road and there is no deeded easement to the county.That's hard to find nowadays. Your property must have been built wired over several decades ago. There is a pole in my back yard that is set up like that. The power company needs to ask permission to access it, and they cannot cut or harm anything without permission.

Don't you just miss the good ol' (bureaucrat-free) days?

edwmax
08-16-2016, 09:54 AM
That's hard to find nowadays. Your property must have been built wired over several decades ago. There is a pole in my back yard that is set up like that. The power company needs to ask permission to access it, and they cannot cut or harm anything without permission.

Don't you just miss the good ol' (bureaucrat-free) days?

A new product of Zoning which requires new roads to be 100ft R/W and deeded/granted to the county in my location.

edwmax
08-16-2016, 09:59 AM
Up date on pictures:

http://caironet.com/banana/Banana%2Dpic3.JPG


http://caironet.com/banana/Banana%2Dpic4.jpg

Snarkie
08-16-2016, 10:08 AM
A new product of Zoning which requires new roads to be 100ft R/W and deeded/granted to the county in my location.My point exactly. Thank God for that old bearded guy called the Grandfather Clause.

edwmax
09-28-2016, 12:08 PM
UpDate!
The EMC Insurance Co. agreed to my settlement offer of $4500 this morning without further discussion. Turnkey cost to replant 38 mature fruit bearing plants (including labor) would be more than $11,000. .... hummm,,, I must have left money on the table????

Anyway, I'll have money for a good restart and using farm labor I can save money over the landscape crew rates. I'm waiting on the check.

.... :woohoonaner: .... :nanadrink: ...

sputinc7
09-28-2016, 12:50 PM
Wow. You did good...

HMelendez
10-13-2016, 10:54 AM
Welcome to the banana gang!......:bananarow:

beam2050
10-13-2016, 01:00 PM
welcome. been to Cairo, my ex has lot of family in Camilla.

edwmax
11-19-2016, 04:07 PM
An update: I received a settlement from the Power Co's insurance underwriter. No enough, but I can replant. ... This past Tuesday I drove to Pahokee Fla (850 mi round trip) and met Nicolas Naranja. From Nicolas I brought home banana plants to replant my patch.

I got: Dwarf Brazillian (5); Gros Michel (3); Pisang Ceylon (5); Dwarf Namwah (5); Raja Puri (1); Blue Java (5); FHIA-1 (aka:Goldfinger - 3); FHIA-18 (3); Williams (3); Hua Moa (3); Paggi (3); Dwarf Red (3) ... 42 plants ... They all been planted except the Paggi which was potted.

I hope this time the patch is bigger and better. Tonight the temperature is predicted to be 34 deg F. So this will be the best photo of the new patch until next spring.

Just a note, the plants replanted after being out of the ground for a little more than 24 hrs did not wilt. But the others after 2 & 3 days were showing leaf wilt. Anyway, the cold temps tonight will finish the leaves for this year.

Thanks Nicolas Naranja!

http://caironet.com/banana/Bananas%2D11182016%2Ejpg