View Full Version : Flag Leaf on my Dw. Cavendish?
jpfloors
05-14-2008, 05:41 PM
Okay, I have two questions: I've never been around when my Dwarf Cavendish has flowered in the past (the only banana I've ever had til this year). I always ended up on Vacation when it's happened so I've never been around to see what the flag leaf looks like or the flower before emerging. Well this is my Third Generation plant (along with 7 others that I still have) and it began to pup a week ago, then a few days later a noticed a leaf MAJORLY smaller than the rest of the leaves, about 1/4 the size of the rest. But today it appears there is a new cigar leaf emerging. Is this a flag leaf and is that a flower forming, or is it possibly just a deformed leaf and it's just going to continue to grow til it is ready to flower? My next question is wondering why the leaves are forming new cigar leafs before the previous leave fully emerges? The first two generations of Dw. Cav. I had didn't do this. This was in a different area (Orlando, only 40+ miles west of where I am now). It is keeping the leaves VERY close together and tight as shown in the picture and they're not spreading out. Is the plant just over healthy (if there is such a thing)? LOL :nanerwizard: Thanks everyone!
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9667&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9667)http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9668&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9668)http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9669&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9669)
jpfloors
05-14-2008, 05:55 PM
Okay, feel silly now, but just thought of another possibility. It does look like another leaf, but it gets VERY THICK toward the middle of the P-stem where it's emerging... could it be two flag leafs? Maybe I lucked out and it's really a double mahoi instead of dwarf cav. Does that happen with those (receiving a flag leaf for each flower)? If it is, that's what you got MsKitty 8-) Hehehe but doubt it!
Dean W.
05-14-2008, 08:50 PM
jpfloors, good luck w/ your bananas.:2788:
Bananaman88
05-15-2008, 06:31 AM
It's tought to tell for sure from your photos, but in my opinion it is not a flag leaf. You'll know when the bud is about to push out after the flag leaf because the bud tip will look distinctly different than a new leaf emerging. We have some Dw. Cavendish in the ground where I work and they look sort of like this right now, almost like the leaves are getting bunched up (hopefully not choking). I'd suggest trying to remove (peel off) some of the old brown leaf sheaths and see if that helps to allow you leaves to drop down and spread out a bit.
jpfloors
05-15-2008, 06:38 AM
Actually that's been done, whenever it turns brown. Very weird. Hard to tell from the pic, I know. They'll be a leaf 3/4 the way out of the p-stem, one 1/2 way out, and then another 1/4 of the way out all at the same time. It's like it's producing its' new leaves too fast. This morning from last night, there isn't any change, probably will be this evening. But the "leaf" now emerging is VERY THICK, much thicker than I've ever seen. I'll keep posted on what happens. It just looks very weird compared to what I've seen it do in the past. But again, this'll be my first flower to view emerging. I can't wait!
damaclese
05-15-2008, 10:46 AM
you said you move them to a new location maybe the conditions are such that the plants trying to protect its self (maybe from hotter sun) so its keeping its leafs closer in to the core of the plant for shade? in Vegas most plants put on thicker leafs in the summer compared to the winter foliage
jpfloors
05-15-2008, 04:25 PM
Thanks Pauly... good point, but it did it throughout the winter as well, which is also when I moved it so maybe that could be it. I inspected today again, the emerging leaf is the flag leaf, I'm sure of it. And at the top of the emerging point it is about 2" thick so I'm sure the flower is just under it, but now I'm VERY curious about the previous leaf that emerged... why did it come out 1/4 the size of all of the other leaves? It looks the EXACT same only much smaller. I'll take more pictures in a day or two when it's emerged even more. It's hard to tell much in the pictures right now with how bunched up the leaves are.
mskitty38583
05-15-2008, 05:00 PM
well jp at least you might be getting a flower. that is so awesome!!!! and hey if the one i got is a dc or a double moahi i dont care, its a lovely tree no matter what kind it is. i love nana trees.:bananaflipflop:. keeping my fingers crossed for your flower!
jpfloors
05-15-2008, 06:11 PM
Hehehe thanks Sam, I know it's not a double mahoi.. I wish LOL But I do have a TC that's about a foot tall of a double mahoi from Sandy... it's doing great as well! I keep going outside and looking at it. I can't wait until the flag leaf spreads out to reveal the flower! I think it might tomorrow. It'll be the first bloom I've ever seen as it's emerging!
damaclese
05-15-2008, 08:13 PM
Thanks Pauly... good point, but it did it throughout the winter as well, which is also when I moved it so maybe that could be it. I inspected today again, the emerging leaf is the flag leaf, I'm sure of it. And at the top of the emerging point it is about 2" thick so I'm sure the flower is just under it, but now I'm VERY curious about the previous leaf that emerged... why did it come out 1/4 the size of all of the other leaves? It looks the EXACT same only much smaller. I'll take more pictures in a day or two when it's emerged even more. It's hard to tell much in the pictures right now with how bunched up the leaves are.
deverting its energy to building flower cells mabe?
Bananaman88
05-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Well, it does sound like you may be getting ready to see a bloom. The leaves do tend to get smaller just before flower emergence.
D_&_T
05-15-2008, 09:58 PM
Here is to hope you get to see the emergence this time.
Is this the same mat ours came from?
jpfloors
05-15-2008, 10:09 PM
Here is to hope you get to see the emergence this time.
Is this the same mat ours came from?
Thanks D&T. All of my DC's came from a single one I had started with two years ago. This one above is a third generation one, and I believe you got a fourth generation one, but couldn't say whether it came from this one specifically. When I moved I had three adults and a LOT of pups; 11 plants total.
Good luck JP. My DW Cavandish had a lot bigger trunk before it flowered but It could be different growing conditions. I wish you luck.
hydrojeff
05-20-2008, 08:56 AM
your killing me Josh, what does it look like now?post some pics dude.
MediaHound
05-20-2008, 09:27 AM
Congrats congrats!
jpfloors
05-20-2008, 06:15 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9714&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9714)
Here it is today! Just curious.. .the 1/4 size leaf that everyone seems to agree isn't a flag leaf has the stem turning red up the center of the leaf. Why is that if it isn't a flag? Little hard to tell in this picture.
Lagniappe
05-20-2008, 07:35 PM
You really couldn't tell in the first pic .
Gabe gave a really nice description of leaf size in relation to bloom onset in this thread: http://www.bananas.org/f2/flowering-time-2365.html
Congrats ! :nanadrink:
hydrojeff
05-21-2008, 05:12 AM
so cool Josh, thanks for sharing, i know your stoked about it!!!!!!!!!
damaclese
05-21-2008, 08:48 AM
thanks for the updated pic looks like some ones going to be a dad soon heheh :basketbalhooplnaner
Bananas do what they do go figure!
Bananaman88
05-21-2008, 09:14 PM
Looks like fruit is on the way!!! Congrats!!
jpfloors
05-23-2008, 08:11 PM
Okay, now is THAT the flag leaf? LOL LOOK, the first site of bananas!!! :bunchonanas:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9767&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9767)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9768&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9768)
Taylor
05-23-2008, 09:05 PM
Wow, Congrats!!! Are we sure this isn't Super Dwarf Cavendish? It seems SO small, since my Dwarf Cavendish got to around 6-7 feet last year without blooming!
jpfloors
05-23-2008, 09:16 PM
I'm pretty sure, I know my other one before I moved did as well though, one was above my head and I'm 6'2". I think someone stated earlier that the moving the plants as adults might have had an effect on it and they just might be correct!
Taylor
05-23-2008, 09:24 PM
That is what I needed to hear. Thanks! It is definitely DC and is definitely blooming. :nanerelectricguitar
chong
05-24-2008, 01:27 AM
Congratulations!
Looking at that first picture, it looks to me also, more like a SDC than a DC, judging from the height(4 ft, +/-). Well, let's just wait until the fruits are well developed. If the fruits and flower point more downward than horizontal, it could very well be a DC.
jpfloors
05-24-2008, 07:43 AM
Congratulations!
Looking at that first picture, it looks to me also, more like a SDC than a DC, judging from the height(4 ft, +/-). Well, let's just wait until the fruits are well developed. If the fruits and flower point more downward than horizontal, it could very well be a DC.
I'll tell you right now they'll point straight down... remember guys, this is a third generation plant I have had! :nanarobot:
The fence in the background can kind of serve as a refference, it's a 6' +/-fence.
jpfloors
05-24-2008, 08:08 AM
Here is a picture of the grandmother, the original plant of all my DC's. I JUST remembered that I took this the day we got back from being gone for over a month in PR! The babies from this one got to well over 6', but this one was also only around 4'-5' from what I remember. Not the best quality picture as I was trying to use up what photos I had left in my underwater camera. If this was underwater the pic would of been purfect! LOL
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9769&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9769)
Bananaman88
05-26-2008, 11:29 PM
Great pics, Josh! Congrats on your fruit as well. I just noticed that one of our Dw. Cavendish where I work is pushing out a bloom and the plant looked just like yours did in the first photo you posted where the leaves were all bunched up. Hope yours does well.
Raules
05-27-2008, 02:55 AM
Josh, my congratulations! Very beautiful flowering! A plant thus not the big growth. And at it what age?
hydrojeff
05-30-2008, 08:42 AM
Josh, how about some new pics of your DC bro?
Kylie2x
05-30-2008, 10:26 AM
Very Cool! Congrats!!!:nanadrink:
Yeah ...More pic's Please!!!
Kylie
sandy0225
05-30-2008, 03:26 PM
That is so totally a flag leaf, and a bloom coming up too. Congrats!
Chironex
05-30-2008, 06:54 PM
Hey Josh, When u passing out cigars? Congrats on your first flower. I am still waiting for mine.
jpfloors
06-03-2008, 07:59 AM
Okay, a week and a half later and the male flowers are starting to come out. I think with such small yeilds of fruit production and such a small flower on this one it's definately a sign of it blooming too early. Only five small hands of fruit. Is it possible for the last hand to have both male and female on the same hand?
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9994&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9994)
hydrojeff
06-03-2008, 08:25 AM
five small hands of fruit is better than i have, congrats Josh, good luck to you brother!!
jpfloors
07-07-2008, 09:23 AM
Here's an updated pic of my Dw. Cav... but this is the pic of the plant and the pup (going up for auction on here today). The second pic is of the sister plant that's starting to spit out some pretty impressive leaves at around 5 feet. That one is growing very well!
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11027&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11027)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11028&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11028)
Gabe15
07-07-2008, 11:54 AM
Is it possible for the last hand to have both male and female on the same hand?
That is quite common on many different cultivars, as usually the transitions between parts is gradual. This is the same concept as the flag leaf, bracts are leaves too, they are just modified from the leaves used primarily for photosynthesis and transpiration and change to attract pollinators instead. As the bud travels up the pseudostem, the leaves gradually change from full green leaves to bracts, one of which is called the flag, which is usually the last green leaf that has a decent size to it (which varies widely among plants). Before the flag however, there is a 3/4 leaf and a 1/2 leaf usually, the flag being basically the 1/4 sized leaf, after that the leaves are called bracts.
jpfloors
07-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Thanks Gabe, that really helped answer my question there!
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