View Full Version : Potted Tropical Fruit Trees
Person123
05-01-2008, 06:29 PM
Does anybody know of any good fruit trees for indoor growing? I would like to keep them small, under 5 feet.
I live in zone 5a, Illinois so I really can't grow any tropical fruit outdoors.
Some ideas...
Guavas?
Tiny Lychees?
Sapodillas?
Passion fruit?
Pineapples?
Bananas?
Sugar apple?
Citrus?
Thank you very much!
chong
05-01-2008, 07:25 PM
Let me be the first to welcome you to the group!
Any of those you listed will grow indoors, given proper lighting and temperature environment. Most will not fruit, though.
I have had several Calamondin orange trees in pots indoors that have bloomed and fruited. We use the fruit for garnish and condiment, or flavoring, for Filipino dishes.
I grew 2 dwarf cavendish banana plants indoors, near a bright window, in 15-gallon pots from 1974 to 1994. The bananas just kept producing pups inside, so in 1994, I transplanted them in larger pots, and kept them outside. That winter, I covered them with clear plastic and placed 2 - 100 watt bulbs inside the canopy for heating. In the winter of 1996, they froze. Should have kept them inside.
Dean W.
05-01-2008, 09:07 PM
Person123, welcome to the group.
I have a Kumquat or Calamondin tree still unsure. It's growing well and produces fruit. I would be intrested if any body has any experience growing Lychees indoors. :o
Dean
Richard
05-01-2008, 09:26 PM
O.K., there are both tropicals and sub-tropicals in your list. And for more fun, most of what you listed have both tropical and subtropical species.
To obtain fruit, I encourage you to try subtropicals in 25 to 40 gallon pots: indoors during the fall and winter months, and otherwise outdoors.
:woohoonaner:
Person123
05-01-2008, 09:45 PM
Which ones would fruit?...sorry about the tropical/subtropical mix up.
Lots of people say sugar apple will grow in the north (zone 5a Illinois) in containers. Can anyone help me with that...I'm used to growing tomatoes and the like.
How big would the container be? Would I need to hand pollinate?
mskitty38583
05-01-2008, 11:07 PM
im totally clueless( what else is new) but i did want to say welcome to the org. gladyou joined us!!!!!:bananajoy::bananajoy::bananajoy:
chong
05-02-2008, 01:42 PM
Which ones would fruit?...sorry about the tropical/subtropical mix up.
Lots of people say sugar apple will grow in the north (zone 5a Illinois) in containers. Can anyone help me with that...I'm used to growing tomatoes and the like.
How big would the container be? Would I need to hand pollinate?
I would go with citrus, guava, and banana, in that order. I.e., if you want to grow 1 plant type, citrus is best bet. If 2, then citrus and guava. For citrus, make sure sure the plant that you get is grafted on Poncirus Trifoliata (Flying Dragon) rootstock or similar hybrid from this species. This rootstock is very cold hardy and has a dwarfing effect on the scion.
I have several citrus in 15-gallon pots that are in bloom and fruiting at the same time. One of them is an Oro Blanco grapefruit. I have a Variegated Ponderosa Lemon in a 5 gallon pot that blooms all the time, but never sets fruit. Guess it's time to repot to a bigger one. Calamondin, as I mentioned earlier, will fruit in a 1-gallon pot but you're not going to get very many that way, plus you will need to watch the soil to make sure that they do not run dry. A 5-gallon pot is a good compromise for Calamondin or Kumquat. 10-gallon would be ideal. For other citrus or guava, 20-gallon would be a minimum.
For super dwarf banana, a 30-gallon pot would be minimum. The dwarf banana, 50-gallons.
I had a Cherimoya, a Sugar Apple relative, in a 15 gallon pot in my greenhouse for over 5 years, and it never bloomed. I gave it away to a friend. If you keep the Sugar Apple inside your house, make sure it is in a very bright and warm area. You can try one that is grafted, and you might have better luck with it fruiting.
Dean W.
05-02-2008, 02:18 PM
Chong,
Great point, "For citrus, make sure sure the plant that you get is grafted on Poncirus Trifoliata (Flying Dragon) rootstock or similar hybrid from this species. This rootstock is very cold hardy and has a dwarfing effect on the scion." I've heard that before on other sites.
Does anyone know about the Lychees? I sure am intrested in those. I may have to research it myself. :D
chong
05-02-2008, 04:05 PM
Dean,
When lychee's in season, buy some fruit and save the seeds. Wash them well, dry them for 24 hours, and plant them in sterile soil in 4" pots. They sprout in a couple of weeks, depending on how warm is the environment. A plastic cover would help keep the humidity high, but do not keep it wet. Lychee does need a warm environment to fruit, though. They may even need to be pollinated. When your seedlings are pencil sized in diameter, buy some scion wood to graft to it from the CRFG or some nurseries in FL to improve your fruiting chances. Sometimes, I've seen them(grafted) in Home Depot in FL and CA. Who knows, they may have them in south TX.
For now, I will be propagating Dwarf Ambarella from seed (if I can survive the importing protocols with the USDA.) This plant can bloom in 9 months from transplanting at 14-inches high. The fruit tastes a little like mango and a little like pineapple. The fruit size can be as large as twice the size of large plums and has a shape like plums. They have one 3/4" spiny seed. Since this plant grows to 6-feet, in-ground, it is probably very ideal for potted plant. Logee's Nursery sells them.
Dean W.
05-02-2008, 04:28 PM
Chong,
Thanks you really know your fruit trees my friend. :twonanners:
buzzwinder
05-02-2008, 05:26 PM
Welcome to the forum Person 123, where in northern Illinois are you? I'm here to, Rockford area. I have several Bananas in pots and three Citrus in pots.
Bananas:
Dwarf Cavs.
Zebrina Rojo ( 2 )
Gran nain ( 2 )
Citrus:
2 Meyer improved Lemon. Finicky little things.
Dwarf Washington Navel Orange, Tough sob.
I've about killed my orange tree twice, but the little thing has a will of its own to survive.
This is the beginning of my second year trying this stuff. MASSIVE learning curve, but very enjoyable with people here and citrus north or citrus growers association. Enjoy the forum, these folks here are the BEST!!!!!!:bananarow:
Person123
05-02-2008, 06:18 PM
I'm in the Chicago area...not too much space for growing trees and large plants. I am interested in trying citrus, but I am curious to know if anyone has tried any of the Anona (sugar apple, cherimoya, soursop, pawpaw etc.) trees indoors.
chong
05-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Chong,
Thanks you really know your fruit trees my friend. :twonanners:
You're welcome, Dean!
So, you're in the Austin area. I see a lot of green in your area. Is it pretty humid over there? How much driving is there from Austin to Port Lavaca, Palacios, and Rockport on the coast?
Person123
05-02-2008, 08:40 PM
What's this ambarella fruit you guys are talking about? What is it?
Dean W.
05-02-2008, 09:14 PM
You're welcome, Dean!
So, you're in the Austin area. I see a lot of green in your area. Is it pretty humid over there? How much driving is there from Austin to Port Lavaca, Palacios, and Rockport on the coast?
chong,
Yes, it can be green. During the summer it can get hot and dry though. I would say were about 2 1/2-3 hrs from the coast. :raftingnaner:
chong
05-02-2008, 11:45 PM
What's this ambarella fruit you guys are talking about? What is it?
Here are some photos. This plant is a mango relative. The plants shown here are 9 month old seedlings. The fruits are obviously still green. But they ripen to mostly yellow with a little green leftover, about 2-1/2" - 3" long. One spiny seed, 3/4" dia., in each fruit. Flesh is yellow with little fiber. Tastes like a cross between a mango and a pineapple.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9427&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9427&ppuser=567)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9428 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9427&ppuser=567)
The first one appears to be in a 15 gallon pot. If I find the other pictures I have, I will post them.
Richard
05-03-2008, 12:02 AM
...
For now, I will be propagating Dwarf Ambarella from seed (if I can survive the importing protocols with the USDA.)
...
Chong, is the dwarf a selection of Spondias dulcis, or another species like the common Spondias pinnata ??
chong
05-03-2008, 12:39 PM
Chong, is the dwarf a selection of Spondias dulcis, or another species like the common Spondias pinnata ??
S. pinnata is not the same as S. dulcis. S. dulcis is the same as S. cytherea. S. pinnata fruit is smaller than the S. dulcis' and not very good tasting. Sometimes, Pinnata is used as rootstock for Dulcis because they have a stronger root system. Sometimes S. pinnata is referred to as Mangifera pinnata. That's how closely related it is to Mangifera indica, the mango.
Richard
05-03-2008, 12:56 PM
S. pinnata is not the same as S. dulcis. S. dulcis is the same as S. cytherea. S. pinnata fruit is smaller than the S. dulcis' and not very good tasting. Sometimes, Pinnata is used as rootstock for Dulcis because they have a stronger root system. Sometimes S. pinnata is referred to as Mangifera pinnata. That's how closely related it is to Mangifera indica, the mango.
Yes, this was my understanding. What I don't understand is why Logee's is advertising a dwarf variety. It is unheard of elsewhere. I suspect this is a marketing tactic, esp. since they also incorrectly list S. dulcis as a "new world" fruit when in fact it is native to New Guinea, Borneo, etc.
chong
05-03-2008, 03:38 PM
Yes, this was my understanding. What I don't understand is why Logee's is advertising a dwarf variety. It is unheard of elsewhere. I suspect this is a marketing tactic, esp. since they also incorrectly list S. dulcis as a "new world" fruit when in fact it is native to New Guinea, Borneo, etc.
Most of the Vendors of this plant/seed correctly identify it as from Southeast Asia. In fact, it was only introduced into India in the 1500s (not sure about the date, but it was that late in terms of nativity to India). Missionaries from the Philippines and Indonesia brought this fruit with others to the new world - the Americas.
There are other plants that are incorrectly labeled as natives of the new world that are, in fact, from Southeast Asia. One example is the rare dwarf form of the Ylang-Ylang (Cananga Odorata), Perfume tree, from which Channel No. 5 is derived. The dwarf form, C. Odorata var. 'Fruticosa', a shrub whose flowers have double petals, is labeled by a few Vendors as indigenous from Guatemala to Peru.
In the case of Logee's, I think it's just they may be misinformed. My impression is that they label it from the new world because there is a specie, that is a native of South America, called "Hog Plum" or "Yellow or Red Mombin", Spondias Mombin, that were brought to the tropics by missionaries. They have yellow and red forms, and trees grow as tall as 35 feet. This specie has no dwarf form, while on the other hand, the Dwarf Ambarella or June Plum, has a tree form that grows as tall as the Hog Plum.
chong
05-03-2008, 03:56 PM
Yes, this was my understanding. What I don't understand is why Logee's is advertising a dwarf variety. It is unheard of elsewhere. I suspect this is a marketing tactic, esp. since they also incorrectly list S. dulcis as a "new world" fruit when in fact it is native to New Guinea, Borneo, etc.
As to the advertising by Logee's that this plant is "dwarf", the form that they are selling is presumably the dwarf form. As I stated earlier, Ambarella had a dwarf and a tree form. The dwarf form can bloom in nine months from transplanting at 12 inches high, while the tree form blooms at least 24 months and at least 7 to 8 feet high.
The photo of a Dwarf Ambarella in my earlier post attest to the height at which it will begin to fruit. So, Logee's ad is not a come on, at least from the standpoint of size.
I am somewhat intrigued by this plant as to how there could be a dwarf and a tall form of the same fruit. And I can talk about my theories about how this can be, but it's better if I can have more information to back them up.
Richard
05-03-2008, 04:04 PM
... on the other hand, the Dwarf Ambarella or June Plum, has a tree form that grows as tall as the Hog Plum.
Chong, you are supplying very useful information! I have always heard Ambarella described as a small (2-3 meter) tropical tree that perishes under 10 Celsius. Apparently what I know as Ambarella is more commonly called Dwarf Ambarella. The Univ. of Melbourne plant name site is some help with this:
Spondias axillaris - ENGLISH: Himalayan ambarella
Spondias dulcis - ENGLISH: Dwarf ambarella, ...
Spondias mombin - ENGLISH: Ambarella (as S. lutea), ..., True Ambarella, ...
For more details, see: Sorting Spondias names (http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Spondias.html)
chong
05-03-2008, 05:32 PM
Chong, you are supplying very useful information! I have always heard Ambarella described as a small (2-3 meter) tropical tree that perishes under 10 Celsius. Apparently what I know as Ambarella is more commonly called Dwarf Ambarella. The Univ. of Melbourne plant name site is some help with this:
Spondias axillaris - ENGLISH: Himalayan ambarella
Spondias dulcis - ENGLISH: Dwarf ambarella, ...
Spondias mombin - ENGLISH: Ambarella (as S. lutea), ..., True Ambarella, ...
For more details, see: Sorting Spondias names (http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Spondias.html)
It can become very complicated, couldn't it. The reference list just gave me additional information on my theory on how the Ambarella could have a dwarf and a tall form. I think that if you can classify Spondias into two sub species, I have a strong inclination to put them into S. Mombin and S. Dulcis (Cytherea).
I did not want to bring the following subject up earlier because, as I said, I needed more back-up info. Some Filipino farmers that grow Dwarf Ambarella, call them "Malaysian Siniguelas". Siniguelas is the Filipino name for S. Mombin, where there are the red and yellow varieties of the fruit. Other farmers call the Dwarf Ambarella as a cross between a mango and siniguelas, thus coining the name "Manguelas".
In your attached reference, they refer to a S. purpurea. That is the red form of Spondias Mombin. It just a variation of the Mombin, just as mango will have green, yellow, red, purple, or a combination of these. I could not ferret the scientific name of the yellow form from the list, but as I said, they are both from S. Mombin classification.
If you compare the fruits of the dwarf and tall Ambarellas in the Philippines, they are very similar in shape, size, and seed shape. They may vary in taste somewhat, but they closer to each other in taste than that of the Mombin. Ambarella has a fruit structure closer to the mango. The shape is like a plum, the flesh is somewhat fibrous and a texture like low fiber mango or peach, and the seed has bumps and spiny and probably 35% of the fruit. The skin is much like an unripe mango, but much, much thinner.
The Mombin fruit shape is like a short cylinder with rounded ends, about 1-inch long, with a seed with fibers around a very thin shell, and is probably 60% of the fruit. The flesh texture is similar to a half ripe plum, and the skin is very thin. Thinner than the Ambarella.
Person123
05-04-2008, 11:45 AM
I've heard people say that Emperor dwarf lychee can be grown indoors.
Like Jene's Tropicals here (http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4768086&showprevnext=1)
I'm really interested in growing lychee or longan or rambutan or any other lychee relatives indoors.
damaclese
05-04-2008, 12:14 PM
thanks to all of your its fasanating to read your coment even thoug i rarley understand the true nature of what you are discusing but mabe with time
Dean W.
05-04-2008, 01:11 PM
thanks to all of your its fasanating to read your coment even thoug i rarley understand the true nature of what you are discusing but mabe with time
I can hardly understand some of what they talk about either, damaclese. Some of the plants there talking about I have no experience with. :o:0519:
Richard
05-04-2008, 01:51 PM
I've heard people say that Emperor dwarf lychee can be grown indoors.
Like Jene's Tropicals here (http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4768086&showprevnext=1)
I'm really interested in growing lychee or longan or rambutan or any other lychee relatives indoors.
Jene's is an excellent source for plants. However, note that they recommend lychee for container growing -- this does not mean indoors year-round, only for over-wintering.
Person123
05-04-2008, 02:57 PM
I would be able to put it outside when it is warm.
How big of a pot will I need? and will I have to hand pollinate?
Will longan also work in pots?
Thanks!
Richard
05-04-2008, 03:11 PM
I would be able to put it outside when it is warm.
How big of a pot will I need? and will I have to hand pollinate?
Will longan also work in pots?
Thanks!
A 25 gallon pot would require careful attention, a 40-gallon pot would be better. These fruits are self-fertile. You can read more about them here: CRFG Fruit Facts (http://www.crfg.org/pubs/frtfacts.html), although the information on some cultivars is out of date.
chong
05-05-2008, 01:36 AM
I just found the photo I have of the Dwarf Ambarella (Spondias Cytherea or S. Dulcis). The appearance of the seed, if you notice, is similar to a mango's, after you eat the pulp, except for the shape and size. The flesh of the ripe fruit is light yellow to yellow, just like the mango.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=9430 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9428&ppuser=567)
Person123
05-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Has anyone done Indian or regular jujube in a pot...
Richard
05-13-2008, 11:23 PM
Has anyone done Indian or regular jujube in a pot...
I cared for several at a nursery for about a year, each in 15 to 25 gallon pots. They have been there for some time, and are still there.
lorax
05-14-2008, 08:55 AM
I had a Cherimoya, a Sugar Apple relative, in a 15 gallon pot in my greenhouse for over 5 years, and it never bloomed. I gave it away to a friend. If you keep the Sugar Apple inside your house, make sure it is in a very bright and warm area. You can try one that is grafted, and you might have better luck with it fruiting.
Your Chirimoya may not have bloomed or fruited if it didn't get a cold period... They don't like snow on their feet but they do like to see it at a distance. If they're consistently warm, they'll gradually go dormant. Your other factor might have been altitude, although I'm not sure exactly where you are and how high up it is. I have friends at sea level who were able to get Chirimoyas to sprout and grow into trees, but not to fruit or flower; when they moved the trees into the mountains they immediately started blooming.
chong
05-14-2008, 12:07 PM
Your Chirimoya may not have bloomed or fruited if it didn't get a cold period... They don't like snow on their feet but they do like to see it at a distance. If they're consistently warm, they'll gradually go dormant. Your other factor might have been altitude, although I'm not sure exactly where you are and how high up it is. I have friends at sea level who were able to get Chirimoyas to sprout and grow into trees, but not to fruit or flower; when they moved the trees into the mountains they immediately started blooming.
Didn't get a cold period in Seattle, WA? Surely, you jest. It was in a greenhouse, but the only heat it got is from the house because the greenhouse is part of the house, separated by a 10-ft sliding door and a wall with a window.
By the way, what temperature is cold? I'm a member of the Rare Fruit Growers Society of the Philippines, where many post pictures of Cherimoya, Atemoya, Anon, etc., in their website, yet 95% of the Philippines do not experience periods below 68°F(20°C). Heating design temperature for Seattle WA is 23°F(-5°C). I would say the average temperature in the greenhouse at the time my Cherimoya was there was 40°F(4.4°C). But could get colder.
Richard
05-14-2008, 12:47 PM
In the Cherimoya farms of Columbia, the temperatures do not dip below 50 F (10 C). Each tree produces a few hundred blooms and they hand-pollinate extensively with a pollen-puffer device.
lorax
05-14-2008, 01:31 PM
I'd say about +10 C is cold. They're frost-tender. Are you sure that it's Chirimoyas and not Atemoyas or other Annonas in the Philipines? I have experimented widely with them here in Ecuador and our cultivars go dormant after about 5 years if they don't get the cool period....
Conversely, the cold seems to make Guayabanas go dormant.
chong
05-14-2008, 01:43 PM
I'm sure it was Cherimoya. My friend from Panama gave me the seeds. It was his wife's favorite fruit.
Richard
05-14-2008, 05:41 PM
I'd say about +10 C is cold. They're frost-tender. Are you sure that it's Chirimoyas and not Atemoyas or other Annonas in the Philipines? I have experimented widely with them here in Ecuador and our cultivars go dormant after about 5 years if they don't get the cool period....
The Cherimoyas grown in Fallbrook CA do fine with winter night-time temperatures of 1 C or 2 C.
stumpy4700
05-22-2008, 11:38 PM
If I took the seed from a store bought mango and planted it would it greminate?. Then if it did would I ever get it to fruit in a container? Im in zone 6-7..thanks
Richard
05-22-2008, 11:49 PM
If I took the seed from a store bought mango and planted it would it greminate? Im in zone 6-7
Very likely.
Then if it did would I ever get it to fruit in a container?
Depends on the variety and how you care for it when temperatures drop below 40 F.
chong
05-23-2008, 12:27 AM
The Cherimoyas grown in Fallbrook CA do fine with winter night-time temperatures of 1 C or 2 C.
I think what Lorax meant was that it may not be possible to fruit without any chilling hours for the Cherimoya, when I said that there are growers of Cherimoyas in the Philippines. In fact, there have been discussions recently of how to commercialize them there.
My original comeback to his comment that my Cherimoya would not fruit because it did not get exposed to a cold period, was "In Seattle, surely, you jest." It did in fact survive very cold temps in unheated greenhouse for 3 or 4 years. But never fruited.
stumpy4700
05-23-2008, 11:20 AM
Very likely.
Depends on the variety and how you care for it when temperatures drop below 40 F.
Thanks Richard, I'll try one. Do I need to dry the seed out first or just plant it right away? I would bring it in the sunroom with the bananas. I am just wondering what the low temps would be before I had to bring it in?..Guess it depends on variety huh?
Richard
05-23-2008, 01:29 PM
The mango prefers temperatures between 75 and 95 (F), with 60 to 75% humidity. Some home growers run a network of 1/4 microtubing up their trees with foggers attached. The water supply should be maintained at the above temperature range -- for example, an inline 2 gallon tank near the plant that stays at room temperature. It takes considerable warmth and sunlight to bring the fruit to maturity. It is then picked and set in boxes to ripen. Most varieties perish below 40 F, a few varieties tolerate brief overnight adventures to 30 F. The varieties found in the supermarket are generally grown in the tropics and not cold hardy. I would remove all fruit that forms in the first 3-5 years so that energy will be spent on tree growth.
stumpy4700
05-23-2008, 03:09 PM
Great thanks for the good info.. I think I'll give it a try...thanks again
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