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View Full Version : Agristarts and Blue Java


Seņor Pavo
05-21-2016, 03:18 PM
I have been doing research here and there was a thread back in 2013 about Agristarts not carrying actual blue java bananas.

http://www.bananas.org/f2/ice-cream-agristarts-19233.html

Has this changed? I contacted Ted from Green Earth publishing and he is telling me not to believe what I read here and that Agristarts is the only business who clones Blue Java.

There is a stark contrast to what the forum says vs what Green Earth is saying. Who is correct? This is really kind of amusing in a way, but also frustrating.

Hamakua
05-21-2016, 03:59 PM
I can't say on the Blue Java, but the "Williams" they sent me turned out to be a Dwarf Cavendish.

blue java ice cream
05-21-2016, 04:25 PM
Agristarts is still selling Namwa's as ice cream unfortunately. I have bought several of them from Don at going banana's in Homestead and they have all turned out to be tall Namwa but were labeled as ice cream. Going Banana's sells most of their trees as tissue cultured plants from Agristarts.

Botanical_Bryce
05-21-2016, 05:44 PM
I don't believe anyone not showing photo examples that explain. Because Don from going bananas has his own genetic stock tissue cultured unless that's another lie. Don posted on his site photos and side by side examples of namwah vs blue java. At least he provided evidence of some sort.

Botanical_Bryce
05-21-2016, 05:52 PM
Also I just stopped by agristarts they are not even producing 99 percent of what going bananas sells and many of the plants agristarts never produced outside of contract production.

JP
05-21-2016, 06:22 PM
From what I heard, Going bananas sells the real one. That's why I bought one from him. Just got it. Looks real but time will tell. It was a healthy 4 feet. Took a Mysore and 2 Dwarf Namwahs too and they don't look at all like the Ice Cream. Agristarts apparently carries Namwah, wich is a great variety but not what you pay for. I prefer buying large plants than very small tc's...
Going Bananas does carry way more varieties than Agristarts and posts pics to show fruit difference between the 2 varieties.

Kat2
05-21-2016, 06:22 PM
If I wanted a particular musa, I'd find an established member here who grows it and buy a pup from them. Even if it cost more than ordering from a supplier, it's worth it; you know what you're getting. Me? I'm content to get freebies whenever possible and cheapies when it's not. I really prefer free...;)

Seņor Pavo
05-21-2016, 06:40 PM
So far I've gotten all my bananas free from friends around the island. I wanted this one particular type and it is apparently a wild goose chase.

Thanks for the replies. I am thinking about just canceling my order and going about getting them via other methods mentioned. Its a $40 order and I just know I'll be disappointed. :bananas_b

JP
05-21-2016, 07:00 PM
Namwah is actually a better variety...

Kat2
05-21-2016, 07:09 PM
Namwah is actually a better variety...I hope so. 8/13 I received, in a round about way, 3 pups from a member here--gratis. Supposedly I have a Dwarf Namwah, Raja Puri (blooming now--my 1st!) and a plantain. I was offered a potted IC pup from a member of the rare fruit group in Melbourne; he was only asking $3 but I turned it down. (In hindsight I shouldn't have, I'd have a tall Namwah now.) I did get a "red", "Zan Moreno" and a no charge mystery which is probably an "IC". :ha:

Seņor Pavo
05-21-2016, 08:08 PM
Namwah is actually a better variety...

Better is subjective.

I'd like to have both. I have a feeling my friend has a Namwah at his place that I can obtain for free. Being new to this though, I am still learning cultivars and identification. It seems similar to pineapples in that every geographic location calls the same thing something different.

One man's blue java is another mans ice cream is yet another man's Hawaiian.

Kat2
05-21-2016, 08:13 PM
Better is subjective.Yes, it is. A few members have tasted both and reported that they prefer Namwah. But, again, taste is subjective. If you truly want a Blue Java, put a request in on the wanted board. Good luck.

blue java ice cream
05-21-2016, 08:14 PM
I don't believe anyone not showing photo examples that explain. Because Don from going bananas has his own genetic stock tissue cultured unless that's another lie. Don posted on his site photos and side by side examples of namwah vs blue java. At least he provided evidence of some sort.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMAG1648_4_.jpg

Here's a photo of the ice cream that I bought from Don last year. He told me that he sent his own personal ice cream stock to agristarts to have it tissue cultured. I know that Don does have the real deal blue java but I believe that agristarts had mixed up the tissue samples and are sending out Namwas as ice cream's. Don mostly sells his plants as tissue cultures from agristarts but will also sell sword pups of plants that agristarts does not carry.

I have bought over 15 varieties from him and find him to be highly informative and a very likable guy. Most of the varieties I had bought from him were pups that he had dug up from his personal collection. If you want some more photos of the plant itself just let me know and I'll take some more in the morning.

Botanical_Bryce
05-21-2016, 09:10 PM
No photo. Just an AOL log in.

geosulcata
05-21-2016, 09:43 PM
We bought an "Ice Cream" that came through Agristarts in 2012 - it was Namwa. Not sure about more recently. Thankfully, a forum member gave me a pup of the real Blue Java. The Goldfinger from Agristarts either mutated or is not the real FHIA1.

Alastria
05-22-2016, 01:10 AM
I also got my blue java through a forum member because I didn't want to be bothered with the "is it real or not" hassle. I know that many people consider Namwah to be better, but I wanted to have both.

Seņor Pavo
05-22-2016, 07:11 AM
Yes, it is. A few members have tasted both and reported that they prefer Namwah. But, again, taste is subjective. If you truly want a Blue Java, put a request in on the wanted board. Good luck.

Taste is also not why I want a blue java.

JP
05-22-2016, 07:36 AM
Taste is also not why I want a blue java.

Probably the same reason I bought one; the color! And the fact that it is supposed to tolerate cold better than a lot of other varieties. Plus it taste good.

Kat2
05-22-2016, 08:48 AM
Probably the same reason I bought one; the color! And the fact that it is supposed to tolerate cold better than a lot of other varieties. Plus it taste good.
The only reason I'd buy a one or a manini or any other unusual musa is for the novelty. I really don't like eating bananas unless they're quite tart; I can satisfy my rare cravings for one with a green supermarket Cavendish. At the risk of being expelled from the "club", I'll admit I only grow bananas because I live where I can and I find the plants fascinating.

blue java ice cream
05-22-2016, 08:55 AM
No photo. Just an AOL log in.

Sorry about that, it should show up now.

bananaT
05-22-2016, 05:39 PM
I just bought an ice cream.... and..... it was from the fruit people in manatee council thingy today.
... HOLY CRAP! There is no mistaking these guys. They look extremely different than any banana
I have ever seen. They are blue!
I mean a blue green of course but still. These guys look so different than a namwa, which is very
Pinked out in the ribs and stalk.
I finally got my ice cream today!!! Hell yeah!

They may not taste the best, but the work it takes to find a !!REAL ICE CREAM!! makes it awesome
To finally have one.

JP
05-22-2016, 05:47 PM
I just bought an ice cream.... and..... it was from the fruit people in manatee council thingy today.
... HOLY CRAP! There is no mistaking these guys. They look extremely different than any banana
I have ever seen. They are blue!
I mean a blue green of course but still. These guys look so different than a namwa, which is very
Pinked out in the ribs and stalk.
I finally got my ice cream today!!! Hell yeah!

They may not taste the best, but the work it takes to find a !!REAL ICE CREAM!! makes it awesome
To finally have one.

Post pics!!!

Botanical_Bryce
05-22-2016, 07:31 PM
I'm doubting my blue Java now. Most photo id are so distant it makes it hard to compare. I have had to change my listed names so many times.

Seņor Pavo
05-31-2016, 01:08 PM
Update:

I called Agristarts today. The lady informed me that they have blue java, but have not gotten it up to speed so they have not sold any.

The ice cream variety they list is tall namwah.


The forum is correct. I emailed this info back to Green Earth Publishing who insisted I (and the forum) were wrong. Thanks everyone.

Botanical_Bryce
05-31-2016, 01:14 PM
I looked at their website and noticed many false things. When you don't know it's easy to get lost. I'm just getting oriented myself.

Seņor Pavo
05-31-2016, 01:18 PM
I looked at their website and noticed many false things. When you don't know it's easy to get lost. I'm just getting oriented myself.

Yeah, I had no idea about any of this. The forum is great.

Tytaylor77
05-31-2016, 07:47 PM
Orinoco = Texas Star/Cali Gold

Blue Java = Tall Namwa

Those seem to be the most mixed up ones. I bought my namwa as a Blue Java. I love them so far. They get really tall and I would prefer the dwarf Namwa if anyone has any to sell/trade pm me.

Botanical_Bryce
05-31-2016, 08:37 PM
I have texas star. It seems to be an orinoco form but unique to itself. I have several orinoco forms. Tall orinoco gets about 20 feet tall. Texas star is not that by far.

Rmplmnz
05-31-2016, 08:45 PM
Left to Right
Banana Racemes Ice Cream, Saba & Ele Ele
June 11, 2011 Tampa, FL

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43462&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43462)http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43463&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43463)http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43464&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43464)


Check the link:
Bananas - Page 3 - Bananas.org (http://www.bananas.org/showthread.php?p=165332#post165332)

A few others
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43467&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43467)

crazy banana
06-02-2016, 12:17 AM
Update:

I called Agristarts today. The lady informed me that they have blue java, but have not gotten it up to speed so they have not sold any.

The ice cream variety they list is tall namwah.


The forum is correct. I emailed this info back to Green Earth Publishing who insisted I (and the forum) were wrong. Thanks everyone.

Agristarts story about the real deal "Blue Java" has never changed over the last four years. It is an embarrassment for them.
I have offered them the "real" Blue Java and so have other members with correctly identified plants, but they are and never were interested in it.
That is okay with me, but the biggest problem is that they knowingly still sell "Namwah" as "Blue Java", which is absolutely NOT okay.
Agristarts or companies like Green Earth in denial about the problem do not seem very trustworthy.

PR-Giants
06-02-2016, 09:14 AM
My understanding is that they replaced the incorrect "Blue Java" with the real deal "Blue Java" last year and it's just a matter of some time for them to get up to speed.

It would be sad if the incorrect "Blue Java" was actually their best Awak type and will now be discontinued for the real deal "Blue Java".



Agristarts story about the real deal "Blue Java" has never changed over the last four years. It is an embarrassment for them.
I have offered them the "real" Blue Java and so have other members with correctly identified plants, but they are and never were interested in it.
That is okay with me, but the biggest problem is that they knowingly still sell "Namwah" as "Blue Java", which is absolutely NOT okay.
Agristarts or companies like Green Earth in denial about the problem do not seem very trustworthy.

Seņor Pavo
06-02-2016, 09:16 AM
My understanding is that they replaced the incorrect "Blue Java" with the real deal "Blue Java" last year and it's just a matter of some time for them to get up to speed.

This is my understanding as well based on the phone conversation I had with them.

crazy banana
06-02-2016, 11:01 AM
My understanding is that they replaced the incorrect "Blue Java" with the real deal "Blue Java" last year and it's just a matter of some time for them to get up to speed.

It would be sad if the incorrect "Blue Java" was actually their best Awak type and will now be discontinued for the real deal "Blue Java".

Only time will tell or maybe I should say "an inflorescence and some nice blue fruits" :ha:

Kat2
06-02-2016, 12:35 PM
Only time will tell or maybe I should say "an inflorescence and some nice blue fruits" :ha:
Sorry but I won't trust anyone selling them in FL unless I can see the parent in bloom. Period. You can buy Ice Creams all day long here for cheap and for not at all cheap. I won't purchase any TCs because Argristarts has polluted the market and is the likely source of not just musas but other plants they propagate. Thankfully I have no problem nurturing roadkill pups/cuttings, taking my chances on flea/farmers market offerings, cosying up to other area gardeners and taking samples from underutilized (and I do ensure it's not being used) land. BTW, I hope they're not one of the crooks offering Blue Java seeds on e-bay...

crazy banana
06-02-2016, 12:42 PM
Sorry but I won't trust anyone selling them in FL unless I can see the parent in bloom. Period. You can buy Ice Creams all day long here for cheap and for not at all cheap. I won't purchase any TCs because Argristarts has polluted the market and is the likely source of not just musas but other plants they propagate. Thankfully I have no problem nurturing roadkill pups/cuttings, taking my chances on flea/farmers market offerings, cosying up to other area gardeners and taking samples from underutilized (and I do ensure it's not being used) land. BTW, I hope they're not one of the crooks offering Blue Java seeds on e-bay...

OMG: Blue Java seeds on eBay?! Lol

Kat2
06-02-2016, 01:17 PM
OMG: Blue Java seeds on eBay?! LolI didn't look very hard to find an offering (but they've been there). I did find this with a quick peek. Dwarf Cavendish Banana 5 Seeds Musa Acuminata | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dwarf-Cavendish-Banana-5-Seeds-Musa-acuminata-/400966297914). Hirt's was located 2 doors from me when I lived in OH; it was once a very respected seed/plant distributor. Now? Sheesh! And the only review is someone saying nothing happened...duh! Sad, so very sad.

Botanical_Bryce
06-02-2016, 01:35 PM
Hirts has stollen my photography and profited from it. I called them and they were rude and disrespectful.

Kat2
06-02-2016, 01:56 PM
Hirts has stollen my photography and profited from it. I called them and they were rude and disrespectful.Hirt's was started by the grandfather as a florist shop I believe. The son expanded and the grandson has gone further. I've met the latest family issue. I will make no other comments except to say that I'm not surprised there was an issue and I'm sorry it happened to you. (I did, very carefully, purchase a few heirloom tomato plants there; the only seeds I purchased were duds. I know that fig varieties other than possibly Chicago Hardy are not reliable in zone 5 yet they sold Magnolias and others as easy growers. Darn, I said more but this is not the only "local expert" nursery I've visited in a few states which sells plants that cannot survive yet pushes the buyer to believe the fault for failure is theirs. Having climbed onto the soapbox....I've found a very nice lady nearby who sells flowers and herbs for beyond cheap (she's licensed and proudly organic); she won't sell anything she hasn't field tested. And despite charging $1 for a quart (no more than $3), she guarantees her plants--bring it back for refund or replacement if it croaks so she can figure out why. She doesn't have banana seeds for sale...hmmm)

speakeasy
06-02-2016, 02:22 PM
Agristarts story about the real deal "Blue Java" has never changed over the last four years. It is an embarrassment for them.
I have offered them the "real" Blue Java and so have other members with correctly identified plants, but they are and never were interested in it.
That is okay with me, but the biggest problem is that they knowingly still sell "Namwah" as "Blue Java", which is absolutely NOT okay.
Agristarts or companies like Green Earth in denial about the problem do not seem very trustworthy.

Hmmm, this is troubling because I just ordered a blue java plant from green earth publishing. I reached out to the owner and he assured me that he had the plants classified properly.

How soon will I be able to tell if the plant I received is not a blue java?

Botanical_Bryce
06-02-2016, 02:26 PM
Before they ship it. Lol

Kat2
06-02-2016, 02:30 PM
My advice would be to cancel the order then ask for a pup in the Banana Plants Wanted area. I don't honestly care about the "special" musas but I would not waste my money and time growing, nurturing, giving space to an overpriced promised plant that turned out to be not what I wanted. But that's me. (BTW, they've been saying they have the "real blue java" for years--why would you trust them now?)

speakeasy
06-02-2016, 02:51 PM
I think it's too late to cancel my order now unfortunately.

I would probably put up a bigger fight if it weren't for the fact that people say that the variety being shipped actually tastes better than the blue java. That being said though, if the plants I receive are the wrong kind, I won't be doing business with them in the future and won't refer people there.

Kat2
06-02-2016, 04:21 PM
I think it's too late to cancel my order now unfortunately.

I would probably put up a bigger fight if it weren't for the fact that people say that the variety being shipped actually tastes better than the blue java. That being said though, if the plants I receive are the wrong kind, I won't be doing business with them in the future and won't refer people there.Yeah, I don't tend to make waves; you could send it back unopened and fight with your CC company or bank. (Hey, today I finally duked it out with AT&T who owed me a credit for a month, sent me on a statement I got yesterday about some credit that they wouldn't put back on my CC as promised back then sans money. When I called they said they'd send a check. Yeah? Really? When? Apparently they couldn't include it with this "statement". Fine. Today Chase did a chargeback for the amount I was owed because, well, because that was right and legal and proper and I will never let AT&T have access to my funds again.)

If you can't do without BJs, do find someone here on the forum with pups. Pricey? I suspect. (It would help if you updated your profile to show where you live--pick up is so much cheaper and advice from neighbors is totally free.) This atypical female who buys garden stuff, tools and kitchen necessities is closing her eyes to those striped bananas that come from variegated plants because I know they're outside of my budget. (Heck, they could taste like paste and they still have me fascinated.)

Have fun; I am.

Botanical_Bryce
06-02-2016, 05:11 PM
Off topic but quit atandt and get cricket wireless. $35 a month no contract but still atandt

sputinc7
06-02-2016, 05:16 PM
Hmmm, this is troubling because I just ordered a blue java plant from green earth publishing. I reached out to the owner and he assured me that he had the plants classified properly.

How soon will I be able to tell if the plant I received is not a blue java?

I just got two "Blue Java" from him a couple months ago. They are most likely Namwah... See here:
http://www.bananas.org/f12/what-have-i-here-37825.html

speakeasy
06-02-2016, 06:29 PM
Yeah, I don't tend to make waves; you could send it back unopened and fight with your CC company or bank. (Hey, today I finally duked it out with AT&T who owed me a credit for a month, sent me on a statement I got yesterday about some credit that they wouldn't put back on my CC as promised back then sans money. When I called they said they'd send a check. Yeah? Really? When? Apparently they couldn't include it with this "statement". Fine. Today Chase did a chargeback for the amount I was owed because, well, because that was right and legal and proper and I will never let AT&T have access to my funds again.)

If you can't do without BJs, do find someone here on the forum with pups. Pricey? I suspect. (It would help if you updated your profile to show where you live--pick up is so much cheaper and advice from neighbors is totally free.) This atypical female who buys garden stuff, tools and kitchen necessities is closing her eyes to those striped bananas that come from variegated plants because I know they're outside of my budget. (Heck, they could taste like paste and they still have me fascinated.)

Have fun; I am.

I think I would like to grow some authentic Blue Java bananas eventually (color looks fantastic), but my goal was to buy some plant that might produce some tasty fruit, so it might be for the best. I just hope I don't end up with some titanic variety, as I will be growing these indoors (location is NY).

I'm just disappointed that there are unscrupulous sellers like this... Even if more people end up liking the namwah, I still think a spade should be called a spade.

Rmplmnz
06-02-2016, 07:11 PM
Sorry but I won't trust anyone selling them in FL unless I can see the parent in bloom. Period.

Wow..that is sad. I have given away over 100 hundred IC pups to more than a dozen members (all in Florida)...one would think they would be readily available to whomever wanted one.

Many people disparage the taste. I think they are awesome...only when at the peak of ripeness (very small window)...after that too mushy and not good.

Botanical_Bryce
06-02-2016, 07:21 PM
I like mine mushy

crazy banana
06-02-2016, 07:27 PM
Wow..that is sad. I have given away over 100 hundred IC pups to more than a dozen members (all in Florida)...one would think they would be readily available to whomever wanted one.

Many people disparage the taste. I think they are awesome...only when at the peak of ripeness (very small window)...after that too mushy and not good.

I agree with your taste description. I had some that tasted absolutely amazing while others were not even "soso".
They are definitely eye candy though.

Kat2
06-02-2016, 08:02 PM
Off topic but quit atandt and get cricket wireless. $35 a month no contract but still atandtAgain OT but Metro PCS has my vote. $30 per month on autopay. No contract. Great service for unlimited talk and text. Net not unlimited but sufficient.

Back on topic. Apparently I need to get my truck roadworthy for a trip to Tampa...

Botanical_Bryce
06-02-2016, 09:41 PM
Again OT but Metro PCS has my vote. $30 per month on autopay. No contract. Great service for unlimited talk and text. Net not unlimited but sufficient.

Back on topic. Apparently I need to get my truck roadworthy for a trip to Tampa...
I'll be in Tampa rzmcjckvkvkfic's house sunday afternoon.

Kat2
06-02-2016, 10:13 PM
I'll be in Tampa rzmcjckvkvkfic's house sunday afternoon.Good for you; I won't. :(:(:( Someday...perhaps...

Botanical_Bryce
06-02-2016, 10:18 PM
I'll try to leave you some. :0487:

Rmplmnz
06-02-2016, 11:05 PM
Good for you; I won't. :(:(:( Someday...perhaps...

You have an open invite Kat!!!

The "other" Kat ("dreaminofthetropics") on the board..has picked up a corm or two (hundred):bananas_b

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43936&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43936)http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43939&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43939)

sputinc7
06-03-2016, 08:21 AM
On the phone conversation.. Straight Talk from Walmart...$45 a month, unlimited everything. Pick the right phone and you will get the carrier of your choice. Some are on ATT, Sprint or the one that works everywhere, Verizon. Or for a version with unlimited talk n text but limited internet it's $30. Had it for 6-7 years with zero troubles.