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Richard
03-25-2008, 01:49 AM
In case you missed it, Harvey has had some of us drooling over his Pomegranate trials he has started on his farm south of Davis, CA.

I suspect many of you are also growing pomegranates, maybe even unaware that there are newer varieties well-suited for not-so-hot-summer coastal areas, or the flavor-bursting varieties that have been imported from the Steppes of Central Asia (with apology to A. Borodin).

There is also a lot of hype about the health benefits of pomegranates and the juice. To put it in perspective, you get almost as much benefit from a glass of pomegranate juice as you would from a glass of real cranberry juice, but the pomegranate juice tastes better!

What kinds of Pomegranates are you growing, or what questions do you have for the pomegranate fanatics here ?

Today I finished planting the remainder of my pomegranate trial, eight trees each of:

Wonderful, Parfianka, Sin Pepe, Gissarskii Rosovyi, Sirinevyi, Vkusnyi, Azadi, Medovyi Vahsha, Desertnyi, and Sakerdze. All of these except Wonderful and Sin Pepe came to the USA from Turkmenistan in the 1990s and are not widely grown. I also planted seedling trees of Mridula and Ganesh (from India) and Mollar (from Spain) and one tree budded to Cranberry, a tree of unknown origin.

It will be a small challenge at harvest time when these trees start producing as each tree of a particular cultivar are randomly located throughout the plot of 4 rows and 22 trees in each row (plus "guard trees" at the end which are not an official part of the trial). I'll process some of my photos and have them up on my pomegranate web site when I get a chance.

FYI, here are photos I took last October of many of the Turkmen cultivars:
Purely Pomegranates (http://www.purelypoms.com/PhotoIndex.htm)

Fruit size, etc. shown on these pages is not very meaningful because (1) these trees at the repository are not managed for fruit production and (2) this fruit was collected after much of the fruit was already picked.

Harvey

Randy4ut
03-25-2008, 11:27 AM
Hey Harvey, and or Richard,
I just received a Punica granatum that is in a quart sized pot. It was grown from seeds from a mature specimen in Winston-Salem, NC (zone 7). It has been growing there very well since the early 1990's. Do either of you know anything about this one? Supposed to be pretty cold hardy. I don't know a whole lot about the care and would appreciate any advice you could give me... How big should I grow it before trying outside?, growth rate?, info along these lines...

Richard
03-25-2008, 12:05 PM
Congratulations! Plant it in a location where the amount of heat it receives spring through fall is maximized. Too much humidity (incl. rain) in the late summer and early fall can damage fruits of many pomegranate varieties. Treat it like a fruit tree -- e.g., apricot. However, it will grow like a bush. Fed it proportionately less. It can be trained to grow in most any shape. One of my neighbors has them in her front yard pruned like patio trees. I prefer mine trained like an apricot tree scaled down to half size in all directions. Untrained it will grow into a bush 15 feet high and wide. Pomegranate plants usually produce many suckers at the base. Control these the best you can. As for the type you have, we'll know more with pictures of flowers, summer leaf coloration, and fruit inside and out.

:woohoonaner:

Randy4ut
03-25-2008, 12:10 PM
Richard,
Here is the best I can do for now as far as pics go. How fast will it grow? Should I pot it up into a larger pot until it gets some more size to it? Thanks for the info so far!!!

POMEGRANATE (http://www.chillypalmtree.com/POMEGRANATE.html)

Richard
03-25-2008, 12:36 PM
Wow, I wasn't expecting pictures until Fall. It might be Grenada. Perhaps Harvey, Joe, or one of the other variety-crazed people here will be able to ID it for you from the link:
POMEGRANATE (http://www.chillypalmtree.com/POMEGRANATE.html)

I like how the bush in the lower picture is pruned.

Your potted plant: don't let it dry out or get soggy. Go ahead and plant it if in your location you are past freezes and serious frosts (e.g., if you would feel comfortable planting a rose bush that is not bare of growth). I would dig a 2' x 2' x 2' hole to loosen compacted soils. Remove all rocks larger than a golf ball. If the remaining soil is bad, mix in about 1/4 to no more than 1/2 the volume with a soil mix. Kellogg's Patio Mix is sold inexpensively and a good product. After you plant it, make a basin around the perimeter of the hole and then cover the whole ground area with at least 2 inches of mulch. Don't feed it for 2 weeks after planting. It will like whatever you are feeding your bananas, or rose food -- provided it is not the kind with systemic poisons!

More information about planting deciduous fruits and (if you page down) pomegranate varieties is available here:
http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guides/CommonEuropeanFruitsNuts.pdf

chong
03-25-2008, 01:18 PM
Thank you for this thread, Richard.

I wonder if anyone knows if Mr. John Chater is still in business. I used to order Pomegranates from him back in the 70's. Of the four varieties I received from him, only two are surviving - Eversweet and Rosa Mia. Of the other two, I can only remember Ambrosia as one of them. I remember ordering from him after seeing his ad in the CRFG magazine. I believe it had a Santa Barbara, CA address. When I talked to him, he said that he brought his plants from Lebanon and that they were very hardy, and will grow in sandy soil, wet soil, etc. He further said that his specimens were so vigorous that you can break off a branch and stick in the ground, water it, and you'll have a new plant!

Any contact information for Mr. Chater?

JoeReal
03-25-2008, 01:24 PM
Wow, I wasn't expecting pictures until Fall. It might be Grenada. Perhaps Harvey, Joe, or one of the other variety-crazed people here will be able to ID it for you from the link:
POMEGRANATE (http://www.chillypalmtree.com/POMEGRANATE.html)

I like how the bush in the lower picture is pruned.

Your potted plant: don't let it dry out or get soggy. Go ahead and plant it if in your location you are past freezes and serious frosts (e.g., if you would feel comfortable planting a rose bush that is not bare of growth). I would dig a 2' x 2' x 2' hole to loosen compacted soils. Remove all rocks larger than a golf ball. If the remaining soil is bad, mix in about 1/4 to no more than 1/2 the volume with a soil mix. Kellogg's Patio Mix is sold inexpensively and a good product. After you plant it, make a basin around the perimeter of the hole and then cover the whole ground area with at least 2 inches of mulch. Don't feed it for 2 weeks after planting. It will like whatever you are feeding your bananas, or rose food -- provided it is not the kind with systemic poisons!

More information about planting deciduous fruits and (if you page down) pomegranate varieties is available here:
http://www.frostconcepts.com/horticulture/CommonEuropeanFruitsNuts.pdf

Had no idea. I'm just beginning to be appreciative of pomegranates. I know that there are thousands to be sampled from the Wolfskill germplasm alone. I managed to sample the fruits of about 22 of them last year, that leaves me still thousands to go through.

Perhaps Harvey will be able to take his best guess on this one.

Richard
03-25-2008, 03:13 PM
<snip>I wonder if anyone knows if Mr. John Chater is still in business.</snip>

From p.12 of the Sept. 2006 Fruit Gardener (http://www.crfg.org/fg/), none other than the famous fruit detective David Karp writes:

"In cool coastal areas, commercial pomegranates are well-adapted as ornamental shrubs but usually bear sour fruit. S. John Chater, who became a legend among California rare fruit growers, did not accept this situation: he bred pomegranates in his Camarillo backyard for several decades until his death in 2001, searching for new varieties that would bear tasty fruit under mild conditions. Many are low-acid. A Golden Globe, for example, which I tasted in his yard, is a huge blond fruit with pink, honey-sweet arils that have small, soft seeds. Born in Lebanon, Chater was a maintenance worker at a local hospital and wrote unpublished books of philosophy, but his real passion was pomegranates, which he delighted in sampling and discussing with visitors. He patented his best-known variety, Eversweet, which is available at many nurseries."

chong
03-25-2008, 04:11 PM
From p.12 of the Sept. 2006 Fruit Gardener (http://www.crfg.org/fg/), none other than the famous fruit detective David Karp writes:

"In cool coastal areas, commercial pomegranates are well-adapted as ornamental shrubs but usually bear sour fruit. S. John Chater, who became a legend among California rare fruit growers, did not accept this situation: he bred pomegranates in his Camarillo backyard for several decades until his death in 2001, searching for new varieties that would bear tasty fruit under mild conditions. Many are low-acid. A Golden Globe, for example, which I tasted in his yard, is a huge blond fruit with pink, honey-sweet arils that have small, soft seeds. Born in Lebanon, Chater was a maintenance worker at a local hospital and wrote unpublished books of philosophy, but his real passion was pomegranates, which he delighted in sampling and discussing with visitors. He patented his best-known variety, Eversweet, which is available at many nurseries."

Thank you, Richard.

I am so sad to hear this. He was a very kind man, who was fun to talk to. I loved the way he was proud of his plants. Not boastful but reassuring. He has certainly made his mark in this world.

Richard
03-25-2008, 04:56 PM
I never met John Chater, but I am very grateful for his breeding efforts and showing what is possible. I have an Eversweet which has been in the ground for one year, and among the cuttings I am rooting are six stems of Golden Globe.

:woohoonaner:

D_&_T
03-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Would Pomegranates grow in containers inside over winter? Also can they be trimmed to keep on inside manageable sizes?

JoeReal
03-25-2008, 06:46 PM
Would Pomegranates grow in containers inside over winter? Also can they be trimmed to keep on inside manageable sizes?

Sure. If you can do bananas, you surely can manage pomegranates in pots. You can keep pomegranates smaller too.

modenacart
03-25-2008, 07:31 PM
How long does it take from seed to fruit?

Randy, did you taste the fruit from the one from NC? It would be interesting to know if it tastes sweet. It might be a plant we can grow in New Bern in the ground.

Richard
03-25-2008, 08:43 PM
<snip>How long does it take from seed to fruit?</snip>

5 years for a harvest. I don't know if it will come true to type. I have only seen them grafted and so I doubt it.

The seeds are small, often soft, and difficult to extract. On the other hand, leave a few fruits on the bush and let them fall to the ground, then bury in mulch and make sure they get watered when the mother bush starts to come out of dormancy. The sprouts can be dug up when they reach 1 foot tall.

A more common practice is to rip suckers off the base of the plant or the root ball -- taking a "heel" with it. Rooting hormone is applied to the heel and planted in a pot. These are often what are sold as seedlings. They also mature faster and are true to type.

NanaNut2
03-26-2008, 02:29 AM
In case anyone is interested, I'd like to recommend a book recently published by Dr. Gregory M Levin. It is called Pomegranate Roads, A Soviet Botanists's Exile from Eden.

This book is about the life and collecting adventures of the Famous Soviet Agriculturalist, Dr. Levin, before, during and after the collapse of the communist Soviet Union. It does have some technical information about pomagranite horticulture. A friend of mine has translated this work into english. It is a fascinating look into the Dr's life and passion for the pomagranite. So many more varieties than you could ever imagine. Too many varieties were lost forever. But many survive, some being sent to the USA for trials. If you do read it, please let me know how you enjoy the book. And I will pass it along to my friend, who will pass it on to Dr. Levin. He is quite elderly now.

Randy4ut
03-26-2008, 06:50 AM
How long does it take from seed to fruit?

Randy, did you taste the fruit from the one from NC? It would be interesting to know if it tastes sweet. It might be a plant we can grow in New Bern in the ground.


I have not tasted the fruit from the mother plant. I received this plant from ChillyPalmDude, aka Sean. Not sure if you know him, but he harvested the seeds and I feel he probably did indeed taste the fruit. If you would like, pm me and I can give you the name of the man that owns the mother plant.

JoeReal
03-26-2008, 08:32 AM
In case anyone is interested, I'd like to recommend a book recently published by Dr. Gregory M Levin. It is called Pomegranate Roads, A Soviet Botanists's Exile from Eden.

This book is about the life and collecting adventures of the Famous Soviet Agriculturalist, Dr. Levin, before, during and after the collapse of the communist Soviet Union. It does have some technical information about pomagranite horticulture. A friend of mine has translated this work into english. It is a fascinating look into the Dr's life and passion for the pomagranite. So many more varieties than you could ever imagine. Too many varieties were lost forever. But many survive, some being sent to the USA for trials. If you do read it, please let me know how you enjoy the book. And I will pass it along to my friend, who will pass it on to Dr. Levin. He is quite elderly now.

I gladly second this recommendation! Too much injustice has been done to Dr. Levin.

NanaNut2
03-26-2008, 08:35 AM
Thank you Joe. This is a fascinating read, and many if not most of the 'new' varieties of pomegranites that we have are thanks to Dr. Levin.

Richard
03-26-2008, 11:42 AM
In case anyone is interested, I'd like to recommend a book recently published by Dr. Gregory M Levin. It is called Pomegranate Roads, A Soviet Botanists's Exile from Eden. <snip>


I agree with Joe, Pomegranate Roads is well worth reading, even if you will never grow or eat pomegranates.

alsheetaz
01-05-2009, 06:07 AM
Thank you for this thread, Richard.

I wonder if anyone knows if Mr. John Chater is still in business. I used to order Pomegranates from him back in the 70's. Of the four varieties I received from him, only two are surviving - Eversweet and Rosa Mia. Of the other two, I can only remember Ambrosia as one of them. I remember ordering from him after seeing his ad in the CRFG magazine. I believe it had a Santa Barbara, CA address. When I talked to him, he said that he brought his plants from Lebanon and that they were very hardy, and will grow in sandy soil, wet soil, etc. He further said that his specimens were so vigorous that you can break off a branch and stick in the ground, water it, and you'll have a new plant!

Any contact information for Mr. Chater?

John Chater was my grandfather. He died a few years ago. I just googled him because I missed him as I wanted to see if Eversweet still lived on through all the clients he had. I found this amazing site through the search.... and hence your question.

I remember visiting my grandfather often and the hours he spent in his garden and the checks from his clients that he'd get from all the countries of the world. The love and passion he had for gardening makes me really happy It brought his Eversweet branch to so many people. We still have it in every house we ever lived in. I couldnt eat pomegranates from age 9 to 18 because of all the jams, jellies and fresh fruit i consumed from our weekly visits from birth on!

To know that you are enjoying it makes me feel he lives on. Thank you for remembering him!

:)

alsheetaz
01-05-2009, 06:21 AM
Thank you, Richard.

I am so sad to hear this. He was a very kind man, who was fun to talk to. I loved the way he was proud of his plants. Not boastful but reassuring. He has certainly made his mark in this world.

oops I should have kept reading before i posted.

Yes, he was very certain of one thing.... gardening! He has many grand kids and his gift to us when we were born was one tree. He'd plant a tree and every time you visit he'd make you shower you with produce from your tree. It was an amazing gift because it was cool to see the tree grow as I grew.

The gardening was in Camarillo at his house (Rose was my grandmother and he named the Rosa Mia after her) and no matter what the temperatures or whatever bugs were going on, his was the cleanest and the most perfect garden i'd ever seen (to this day). I dont think he used pesticides, but he had his natural lebanese things he'd do.. and the bugs just knew to stay away.

He held a great garden and the best place in the world to play 'hide n seek'!

island cassie
01-07-2009, 12:46 AM
alsheetaz - when we were in Iran in the 70's the pomegranates were so delicious - better than those available in the west! I don't know what variety they were unfortunately.

chong
01-07-2009, 03:08 AM
oops I should have kept reading before i posted.

Yes, he was very certain of one thing.... gardening! He has many grand kids and his gift to us when we were born was one tree. He'd plant a tree and every time you visit he'd make you shower you with produce from your tree. It was an amazing gift because it was cool to see the tree grow as I grew.

The gardening was in Camarillo at his house (Rose was my grandmother and he named the Rosa Mia after her) and no matter what the temperatures or whatever bugs were going on, his was the cleanest and the most perfect garden i'd ever seen (to this day). I dont think he used pesticides, but he had his natural lebanese things he'd do.. and the bugs just knew to stay away.

He held a great garden and the best place in the world to play 'hide n seek'!

Thanks for your input. I spoke with him on the telephone several times, and he was very accommodating. I'm very happy to hear about the origin of Rosa Mia (My Rose) variety. I still have my plant that I bought directly from Mr. John. It and the Eversweet are very much thriving.

Kind regards,
Chong

Chironex
01-07-2009, 03:28 AM
What a wonderful and heart-warming story. Thank you for remembering and sharing this with us.

Richard
01-07-2009, 04:15 AM
... The love and passion he had for gardening makes me really happy It brought his Eversweet branch to so many people. We still have it in every house we ever lived in. ...

Eversweet is an outstanding variety if you live in a coastal-influenced area. My family and I just harvested our last one for the year at Christmas. I am also growing Golden Globe and very fond of it as well.

harveyc
04-26-2011, 07:09 PM
I just remembered this old thread and thought I'd add some photos. I visited the Chater homestead in December 2009, just viewing it from the street.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/21136381/sn/1855259850/name/ChaterHomestead20091228.jpg

Here are a couple of old ads from John Chater that were sent to me by Edgar Valdivia:

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/21136381/sn/980143726/name/John+Chater.jpg

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/21136381/sn/227755943/name/chater.jpg

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/21136381/sn/1603287406/name/ChaterPomNov2000.jpg

All of Chater's cultivars except for the last one he release, 'Chater' from 2000, are in the repository at Wolfskill. Purple Heart is my favorite of the ones I've tried so far (Dave Wilson markets it under the name of Sharp Velvet). I'm also growing Eversweet, Rosamia, Ambrosia, and maybe Chater (in a pot somewhere).

Another friend from NorCal (previously from SoCal) told me he spoke with John many years ago about his breeding efforts and he learned that some of the varieties had been developed by crossing varieties with some of the Japanese ornamental types. I don't know how reliable that information is, though.

sunfish
06-11-2011, 12:50 PM
Dwarf Pomegranate

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43431&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43431&ppuser=2868)

orinoko
06-11-2011, 01:56 PM
Its a long time since I saw a Pomegranate , let alone eat one.

We used to eat them by picking the fruit with a needle/pin I can't remember which now then ate them one by one.

:ha::ha::ha::ha:

sunfish
06-11-2011, 02:09 PM
Its a long time since I saw a Pomegranate , let alone eat one.

We used to eat them by picking the fruit with a needle/pin I can't remember which now then ate them one by one.

:ha::ha::ha::ha:

http://www.bananas.org/f9/video-removing-arils-kernels-pomegranate-10390.html#post111102

orinoko
06-11-2011, 02:20 PM
LOLOL sunfish,

Thanks for the link, he was'nt going to leave any, was he?

:waving::waving:

harveyc
06-11-2011, 06:51 PM
LOLOL sunfish,

Thanks for the link, he was'nt going to leave any, was he?

:waving::waving:

No, why would I???? :)

I've got more videos I've also shared at Purely Pomegranates (http://www.PurelyPoms.com)

Tony, wish you had some room for a couple of full-sized plants that produce good fruit!

sunfish
06-11-2011, 07:10 PM
No, why would I???? :)

I've got more videos I've also shared at Purely Pomegranates (http://www.PurelyPoms.com)

Tony, wish you had some room for a couple of full-sized plants that produce good fruit!

Got one. Wonderful.Are they easy to graft ?



http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43440&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43440&ppuser=2868)

harveyc
06-11-2011, 08:00 PM
Yes, I've grafted quite a few with cleft grafts and then have worked out well except for a problem with one plant I can't figure out (might be a compatibility problem). Two out of three branches on that tree just died this year, a year after grafting. Four other trees are doing fine, though, and Edgar Valdivia has one tree in his front yard with about 12-15 grafts on it.

sunfish
06-11-2011, 08:06 PM
Yes, I've grafted quite a few with cleft grafts and then have worked out well except for a problem with one plant I can't figure out (might be a compatibility problem). Two out of three branches on that tree just died this year, a year after grafting. Four other trees are doing fine, though, and Edgar Valdivia has one tree in his front yard with about 12-15 grafts on it.

Then I'll try grafting and just keep the one tree.I was going to sell it

harveyc
06-11-2011, 09:33 PM
If I can ever make it down there, I'll graft it for you! :P

sunfish
06-11-2011, 09:40 PM
If I can ever make it down there, I'll graft it for you! :P

Do that and I have lots of plants for you.

Shanejennings
09-12-2015, 03:58 PM
Here is a list of what I am growing in Alabama. My trees were all planted spring 2015. I've been searching for as many varieties as I can find to determine which will grow in my climate's high humidity & diseases. If any of you have some varieties I don't have, I would love to get cuttings to try in my area?

Here's my current pomegranate inventory.

AC Sweet-5
Al Sirin Nar-1
Alk Pust Ghermez Saveh-5
Ambrosia-25
Angel Red-2
Arakta-4
Ariana-4
Austin-6
Azadi-2
Balegal-11
Bhagwa-5
Cana-12
Christina-2
Desertnyi-25
Don Sumner North-2
Eversweet-1
Fleashman-5
Florabama Gold-2 heirloom from Greenville Al. Ganesh-2
Gissarskii Rozovyi-10
Golden Globe-6
Hotuni Zigar-4
Kandahar-12
Kaj Acik Anor-19
Kara Bala Miursal-1
Kazake-1
Medovyi Vahsha-25
Mejhos 6269-1
Mollar-9
Mridula-5
Parfianka-21
Parfyanka-4
Ranii-1
Rosavaya-5
Red Anar Saveh-5
Sakerdze-1
Salavataki-1
Shirin Zigar-5
Sirenevyi-11
Sogdiana-1
Sumbar-32
Sumbarskii-6
Surh Anor-9
Sverkhrannity-9
Sweet-25
Syunt-25
Tajikistan Seedlings called Dark Red-32
Utah Sweet-1
Vietnam-1
Vina-1
Vkusnyi-10
White Anar Yadz-20
Wonderful-1