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chong
03-03-2008, 01:36 AM
I bought this Siam Ruby from an eBay Seller from Orlando, FL in 11/2007. After 2 months, I noticed that the oldest leaves tend to develop a red coloration at the upper portion of the outermost pseudostem, eventually withering, then the pertinent leaf will bend down at the base of the petiole. The leaf stays green but dries out eventually.

This is what it looked like when I first got it:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8434&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8434&ppuser=567)

Took this on 02/19/2008:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8435&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8435&ppuser=567)

This was taken today, 03/02/2008. the pstem that has the dark coloration is the 3rd or 4th to develop such. The succeeding leaf's pstem is also starting to show some coloration at the same elevation as the previous.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8436&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8436&ppuser=567)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8437&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8437&ppuser=567)

Has anyone had this problem?

MediaHound
03-03-2008, 02:23 AM
I would not be surprised to see it regrow a new pseudostem from the base and ditch the old leaves completely.

Reminds me of my Kru a couple years ago that did this shortly after I got it:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=10&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10&si=kru&what=allfields)

That's a stick holding up the old growth.

Thats the sort of thing that happens when dealing with tissue cultured plants, they're fragile and sensitive to changes in their environment, and these changes become noticeable in the growth of the plant.

I cut a pup off my Siam Ruby today actually, speaking of Siam Ruby :)

STEELVIPER
03-03-2008, 03:23 AM
How much light is it getting? how about temps? We still do not know a whole lot about this musa.

dablo93
03-03-2008, 12:08 PM
Hi chong, I had that with a basjoo, musella and a velutina, the P stem aws getting skinnier and skinier, it was rot from the inside:(
hope that that is not with your plant

chong
03-03-2008, 02:21 PM
How much light is it getting? how about temps? We still do not know a whole lot about this musa.

Thanks, Mark.

There's a fluorescent lamp 6" above it and it's inside my bedroom 2 ft. from a window. The temperature does not get below 68degF at night, and averages around 70degF during the day. There is an ultrasonic humidifier pointed at it 24/7. I need the humidifier in my room anyway.

Speaking of lack of info on this plant, notice how when I got it the earlier leaf has a lot of red while the later leaves had barely any? Then the succeeding leaves after them did not have any color except very thin around the edges. Now the emerging leaf, the one in the middle, is showing some color developing. It almost seems that it's genes were not distributed evenly within the plant itself. I guess this is why TC products contain many green plants.

mrbungalow
03-03-2008, 02:33 PM
Thanks, Mark.

There's a fluorescent lamp 6" above it and it's inside my bedroom 2 ft. from a window. The temperature does not get below 68degF at night, and averages around 70degF during the day. There is an ultrasonic humidifier pointed at it 24/7. I need the humidifier in my room anyway.

Speaking of lack of info on this plant, notice how when I got it the earlier leaf has a lot of red while the later leaves had barely any? Then the succeeding leaves after them did not have any color except very thin around the edges. Now the emerging leaf, the one in the middle, is showing some color developing. It almost seems that it's genes were not distributed evenly within the plant itself. I guess this is why TC products contain many green plants.


In my opinion, a standard fluorescnt light isn't really sufficient for any musa species. Even 2 feet from a window. I would say lack of light is an issue here. Try exposing it to southern sunlight a bit closer to a window, and let us know if it pops right back!

Erlend

chong
03-03-2008, 02:37 PM
I would not be surprised to see it regrow a new pseudostem from the base and ditch the old leaves completely.

Reminds me of my Kru a couple years ago that did this shortly after I got it:
. . . . . . . . .

That's a stick holding up the old growth.

Thats the sort of thing that happens when dealing with tissue cultured plants, they're fragile and sensitive to changes in their environment, and these changes become noticeable in the growth of the plant.

I cut a pup off my Siam Ruby today actually, speaking of Siam Ruby :)

Thanks Jarred,
If you've had the Kru for a couple of years, has the plant fruited yet? I can imagine that it would be quick to fruit if it were planted in the ground and at a very favorable temperature like in your area. I wish I had known about this organization when I was there in the Del Ray Beach Marriott for 10 months with FEMA after hurricane Charley. My house would be full of bananas since I could have brought them back with me on my 30-day R&R back to Seattle.

And how did the original plant fare? Did it survive? I hope mine does. Or at least pup like yours.

Thanks again.
Chong

chong
03-03-2008, 02:55 PM
In my opinion, a standard fluorescnt light isn't really sufficient for any musa species. Even 2 feet from a window. I would say lack of light is an issue here. Try exposing it to southern sunlight a bit closer to a window, and let us know if it pops right back!

Erlend

Thanks Erlend,
Unfortunately, moving it next to a window will not improve the situation tremendously because the sunlight is not very bright here in the Puget Sound region during the winter. Matter of fact, hardly any when it's raining. Unlike other places in the US. And most people know how much it rains in Seattle. To make matters worse, my house has a 3-foot overhang all around.

Maybe, I'll just double the wattage plus add another lamp with a 25-watt incandescent lamp over it. Or maybe, even a 60-watt halogen lamp over it. Come to think of it, I still have a half dozen of them. I wouldn't dare place it in my greenhouse because the temperature over there is only 55degF(12.8degC)

Thanks again.
Chong

chong
03-03-2008, 03:13 PM
One thing that I forgot to mention was that prior to these remaining 3 leaves, I noticed that there was white mold growing around the base of the oldest leaf's petioles down one and a quarter inch. I cleaned it with a warm and soapy water in a paper towel and rinsed it off with clean moistened paper towel. After that, I moistened a Kleenex with 3% Hydrogen Peroxide and wipe the entire pstem. It was after that, that I took the picture of the 2-month old plant. I looks like the mold was taken care of because I don't see it forming anymore.

I wonder if anyone thinks this might be relevant to my problem. This morning, I looked at the pstem that was turning brown, and I noticed that the brown area is completely shriveled and appears to have cut off supply to the leaf, though which is still green.

STEELVIPER
03-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Could be light. More light needed. But also could be sick. How is the watering? I have noticed that these guys do not get there red till about a foot if they are TC.

Lilith
03-03-2008, 04:24 PM
I haven't been at all happy with this banana. I bought it last summer, it was a fair sized plant, about 2 ft tall and had beautiful red coloration. I planted it in the greenhouse in full sun. Its done okay, no real problems with it trying to die, but it lost all the red color, and it really hasn't grown at all over the winter, while the Ae Ae next to it has more than doubled in size.

I was wondering if maybe I was overfertilizing mine.

chong
03-03-2008, 04:56 PM
I haven't been at all happy with this banana. I bought it last summer, it was a fair sized plant, about 2 ft tall and had beautiful red coloration. I planted it in the greenhouse in full sun. Its done okay, no real problems with it trying to die, but it lost all the red color, and it really hasn't grown at all over the winter, while the Ae Ae next to it has more than doubled in size.

I was wondering if maybe I was overfertilizing mine.

Do you not fertilize each one the same way? Are they kept in the same temperature? If so, your SR might be from TC also. A sword pup from a mature plant will take off pretty fast.

modenacart
03-03-2008, 05:22 PM
Do you not fertilize each one the same way? Are they kept in the same temperature? If so, your SR might be from TC also. A sword pup from a mature plant will take off pretty fast.

I had a orinoco TC that grew way faster than all the pups that I have planted.

Taylor
03-03-2008, 06:03 PM
Hm...interesting Chong...

My Siam Ruby is doing well actually. Yes, it has lost all of the red color, but when you give it more intense light, it shows up (especially on the newest leaf). Right now...it has 3 leaves, and y'all are right, it has not been growing very fast. About a leaf a month or ever 3 weeks or so. It is in the process of putting another leaf out right now and I just can't wait to put her in the ground and let her go...I'm sure it will be a showstopper :)

jason
03-03-2008, 07:08 PM
[QUOTE=chong;31016]I bought this Siam Ruby from an eBay Seller from Orlando, FL in 11/2007. After 2 months, I noticed that the oldest leaves tend to develop a red coloration at the upper portion of the outermost pseudostem, eventually withering, then the pertinent leaf will bend down at the base of the petiole. The leaf stays green but dries out eventually.

This is what it looked like when I first got it:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8434&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8434&ppuser=567)

Took this on 02/19/2008:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8435&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8435&ppuser=567)

This was taken today, 03/02/2008. the pstem that has the dark coloration is the 3rd or 4th to develop such. The succeeding leaf's pstem is also starting to show some coloration at the same elevation as the previous.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8436&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8436&ppuser=567)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8437&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8437&ppuser=567)

Hi if by chance their is something going on with the roots,,wich im sure thier is go buy some Halt systemic and water that in ,it is a fungicide will help protect the roots!!!Had a banana that did the same thing to me and as soon as i did this about 2 weeks later it was looking back to normal! Hope this helps,Jason.

Lilith
03-03-2008, 07:37 PM
Well, yes, mine are right next to each other, side by side, Chong. They get watered at the same time, they get the same fertilizer, and they get the same light, which is full "greenhouse" sun. There is nothing impeding the sunlight from the floor in the section that they are planted in.

My other thought was, perhaps its DAYLENGTH and the decreased intensity of the WINTER sun that might have caused the "greening up". It certainly hasn't affected the Ae Ae.

Here are 3 photos. The first one shows the Ae Ae and the Siam Ruby. This is after the Ae Ae was brought back into the greenhouse after my experiment in keeping it outdoors all winter (I decided that wasn't all that good of an idea). So its pretty small, because its just regrown from being frozen to the ground. This first pic was taken in Sept 2007. See that beautiful red color on the Siam Ruby??

The second photo I was actually taking a picture of the huge 6 foot bromeliad in the front and the Ae Ae just kinda got into the frame. Its trunk has aaded a huge amount of bulk and it has really grown. The Siam Ruby, however, is the same size, but is totally green and very hard to see in all the other stuff there, but its the little banana down in the left in front of the Ae Ae.

The 3rd photo shows the green Siam Ruby better and the Ae Ae less.

I am hoping that, now that Spring is here and we have added daylength and are adding light intensity, the Siam Ruby will revert back to its former glory. If it doesn;t, I'm gonna be pretty mad.

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Bihai/plants%20and%20people/VarBan907.jpg

Lilith
03-03-2008, 07:39 PM
photo #2
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Bihai/plants%20and%20people/Feb08004.jpg

Lilith
03-03-2008, 07:41 PM
photo #3
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Bihai/plants%20and%20people/Feb08001.jpg

jason
03-03-2008, 07:50 PM
photo #3
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Bihai/plants%20and%20people/Feb08001.jpg

Hey is that a variegated screw pine???

chong
03-03-2008, 08:09 PM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Hi if by chance their is something going on with the roots,,wich im sure thier is go buy some Halt systemic and water that in ,it is a fungicide will help protect the roots!!!Had a banana that did the same thing to me and as soon as i did this about 2 weeks later it was looking back to normal! Hope this helps,Jason.

Thanks Jason,
I will try that. Though, I dusted the roots of this plant with Captan before planting in this larger pot, I may not have reached portions of the root where some of the fungus are present. Rather than uproot the plant again, a systemic treatment would be better. I had not heard of that before, but since you introduced it to me here, I will certainly look for "Halt" in the garden shop.

Lilith
03-03-2008, 08:32 PM
No Jason, that is a monstrous and vicious Anamea "Raspberry Ice" hybrid pineapple bromeliad. Its about 6 ft tall and has a spread of almost as much. I had absolutely no idea that it would get that large, or I would never have planted it right by the pathway. Its armed and dangerous.

NanaNut2
03-03-2008, 09:59 PM
Chong,
I live in the Puget Sound Area as well, no outside gardening available in my condo. I've found that light, heat and humidity are the things needed for all my tropicals. Have you been to Indoor Sun Shoppe in Wallingford area? They have some great flourescent light fixtures, perhaps higher wattage than you have. I've gotten most of my lighting there. Also, Home Depot has some outside spot lights by Lights of America pretty cheap, you just have to defeat the day/night feature, and instead of hardwiring, attach it to a bared extension cord. I'm no electrician and had no trouble with it.

A couple of thoughts. First, if your humidifier is pointed right at your banana, you could be having the same trouble I had last year when my cold mist humidifier was close to and pointing at my bananas and palms. Namely, the closest leaves would wilt, shrivel, turn brown and die. I had to move the humidifier across the room. That could also explain the fungus/mold you got on your plant.

Secondly, even though your light is flourescent, it does carry some heat. If its only 6 inches above your nana, the heat could be causing your top leaves to wilt (if that is a problem). And that close, you don't get much light spread to the rest of the plant. Could you get a larger fixture? All my light is 'imported'. I don't get much sun either with a large overhang such as yours and my place is set at a funny angle in respect to NSEW. I'm at my top allowance for lighting fixtures on this old aluminum wiring. I'm afraid to put in more lights fearing I will set the place on fire ... lol. That limits the number of plants I can have.

I keep my place 76 deg F and above at all times. Hard on the power bill, but comfy for all my plants. Perhaps 72 deg. F is too cold for much growth.

I've just ordered a Siam Ruby from Wellspring100 on ebay. I'll let you know how well the plant does in here. I always lose some color growing indoors.
NanaNut2

MediaHound
03-03-2008, 10:25 PM
Thanks Jarred,
If you've had the Kru for a couple of years, has the plant fruited yet? I can imagine that it would be quick to fruit if it were planted in the ground and at a very favorable temperature like in your area. I wish I had known about this organization when I was there in the Del Ray Beach Marriott for 10 months with FEMA after hurricane Charley. My house would be full of bananas since I could have brought them back with me on my 30-day R&R back to Seattle.

And how did the original plant fare? Did it survive? I hope mine does. Or at least pup like yours.

Thanks again.
Chong

Yes mine survived, it did great actually. I pulled several bunches off it since, my Red Kru is a fast grower and profuse bloomer, probably the most productive of all the kinds I grow.. up there with Apple (Manzano).

Next time your in the area, your more than welcome to stop over.
I've stayed at that Marriott, I was staying there actually when the feeder bands from Hurricane Wilma started coming ashore back in 2005. Ahh.. but I digress!
I wonder if more light would help as well. They like it intense! That might give it the energy it needs to pull through.

jason
03-04-2008, 12:19 AM
No Jason, that is a monstrous and vicious Anamea "Raspberry Ice" hybrid pineapple bromeliad. Its about 6 ft tall and has a spread of almost as much. I had absolutely no idea that it would get that large, or I would never have planted it right by the pathway. Its armed and dangerous.
Wow it looks just like a variegated screw pine,,if you ever get a chance google it ,,they look exactly the same ,,amazing,anyways very nice plant!!!!

MediaHound
03-04-2008, 12:21 AM
I'll post a pic of my variegated screw pine shortly, was looking for it earlier but its on another computer... they are nice! Spineless, too!

Taylor
03-04-2008, 05:33 PM
Here mine is 1/1/08, looking great:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7452&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7452)

Here is mine 3/3/08 looking worse, but I think it will make it until spring(2 months after first pic:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8471&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8471)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8472&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8472)

Lilith
03-04-2008, 05:37 PM
It looks great, Taylor, but it doesn't look RED.
None of these look red.
I think this banana is a big disappointment so far.

STEELVIPER
03-04-2008, 07:00 PM
I think this musa needs direct sun for the red colors to come out. Mine is a small tc, but as i acclimated it to the sun light, i have noticed the red start to show. Seems to me the less sun light the more green etc.

mm4birds
03-05-2008, 12:37 AM
seems to me that sun makes the red color come out, as I have see my zebrina lose the red during the winter in my greenhouse only to regain it during the summer when it is moved outdoors. Same thing happens to my ensette maurelli. Acclimate it to the sun slowly otherwise the leaves will burn.

:bananas_b

simon_c
03-05-2008, 12:50 AM
Hi Gina,

Your Ae Ae looks awesome. Unfortunately its pretty hard to cultivate here in the tropics because of the harsh equator sun.
I also have a Siam Ruby, it came from Thailand. Right now I cut off all the leaves because a few weeks ago, there was a prolonged dry spell and the leaves were getting burned. I am hoping that mine will survive this treatment. I'll post some pictures later. Its not pretty after all the leaves were removed. :-(

-simon

chong
03-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Chong,
I live in the Puget Sound Area as well, no outside gardening available in my condo. I've found that light, heat and humidity are the things needed for all my tropicals. Have you been to Indoor Sun Shoppe in Wallingford area? They have some great flourescent light fixtures, perhaps higher wattage than you have. I've gotten most of my lighting there. Also, Home Depot has some outside spot lights by Lights of America pretty cheap, you just have to defeat the day/night feature, and instead of hardwiring, attach it to a bared extension cord. I'm no electrician and had no trouble with it.

A couple of thoughts. First, if your humidifier is pointed right at your banana, you could be having the same trouble I had last year when my cold mist humidifier was close to and pointing at my bananas and palms. Namely, the closest leaves would wilt, shrivel, turn brown and die. I had to move the humidifier across the room. That could also explain the fungus/mold you got on your plant.

Secondly, even though your light is flourescent, it does carry some heat. If its only 6 inches above your nana, the heat could be causing your top leaves to wilt (if that is a problem). And that close, you don't get much light spread to the rest of the plant. Could you get a larger fixture? All my light is 'imported'. I don't get much sun either with a large overhang such as yours and my place is set at a funny angle in respect to NSEW. I'm at my top allowance for lighting fixtures on this old aluminum wiring. I'm afraid to put in more lights fearing I will set the place on fire ... lol. That limits the number of plants I can have.

I keep my place 76 deg F and above at all times. Hard on the power bill, but comfy for all my plants. Perhaps 72 deg. F is too cold for much growth.

I've just ordered a Siam Ruby from Wellspring100 on ebay. I'll let you know how well the plant does in here. I always lose some color growing indoors.
NanaNut2

Hello,
Thank you for responding. I located your pin on the map as being in Kent, WA. That's about 7 miles from Lakeridge, due west of Coulon Park and the south end of Lake Washington. Would love to invite you over, after my remodeling on my house is reasonably completed. Besides, right now, my plants are nothing to look at yet. Maybe in mid-summer.

I don't think that the plant is bothered by the proximity to the light because the affected leaf stays green even when the mid-pstem has turned dark brown.

On suggestion by others, I even added another lamp with a 60-watt halogen lamp. And the outermost pstem has over an inch of very dark brown spot in the middle, bur the leaf is still green.

Last night, I stopped at Lowe's and McLendon's and bought two types of fungicide, neither of which is the one that Jason suggested to use. He recommended "Halt Systemic", but neither store carried them. I called Home Depot and they didn't have the either. The one from McLendon's is made by the same company that makes Halt's. The problem is that their active ingredients are different.

Nevertheless, I wanted to try them last night, but because I was wearing contacts, I couldn't read the labels even with reading glasses. Before I could remove my contacts, my wife called me for dinner, so that was it for last night. I'll try again tonight.

Thank again.

NanaNut2
03-07-2008, 06:12 AM
Chong,
The map is not entirely accurate, but I am close to Kent. One time when I checked my pin, it showed up in the middle of Puget Sound off Federal Way ... lol. I actually set the marker at an intersection close to home. It seems to wander around a bit.

It sounds like fun to get together, and mid summer would be nice. Have fun with your remodel!

NanaNut2

Zacarias
05-17-2008, 02:12 AM
I'm curious as to why no one puts or is a sodium or metal halide light in their house or is that a no no?

Lilith
05-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Our "rumpus room" actually has 4 huge 24inch x 24 inch metal halide lights in the ceiling to simulate "natural daylight". They were installed by the woman who used to live here so she could sit at her computer and bask in the glow. She was fairly eccentric.

The room is large, about 20 ft x 20 ft and also has 4 other windows that emit quite a bit of light.

We NEVER turn on the metal halide lights for two reasons:

They increase the temperature of the room by easily 10-15 degrees, maybe more, because they generate a ton of heat, and they are electricity drains. If I wanted to, I could grow anything my little heart desired in this room under those lights, but my electric bill would probably be about $1000 a month (its already between $400-500 in the summer...we have an all electric house and it costs that much to cool it here in the Florida swamps)