View Full Version : Growing food Organically ATTN: CookieCows
momoese
12-28-2007, 04:17 PM
This quote from Deb (CookieCows) made me think about sharing some info on Organic gardening.
We have so much to learn from one another and I for one want to learn more on how I can get my darn garden to do better without using pesticides as we've had lousy luck up to this point. My husband and I gave up and started spraying the heck out of our vegetable garden and it has still been touch and go.
Armed with a little knowledge there should be no excuse for using Pesticides, Herbicides, Synthetic/Chemical plant foods or GMO products in your backyard gardens, unless you just really want to use them. I can tell you that I would much rather have the occasional caterpillar, snail or aphid eating my plants then putting pesticides on my dinner plate. As a matter of fact I'd let the bugs completely eat the garden and go buy food from the farmers market before I'd apply any toxic chemicals on my food, but that's not going happen because I know how to get rid of them naturally! In my years of growing organically I've used killer snails, praying mantis', lady bugs, parasitic wasps, preditor mites, and various forms of organic insect control like submerged half aluminum cans filled with beer for slugs, BT for catapillars, black light hunts at night for horm worms, and some homemade insect killing soap sprays.
Insect control: If your soil and plants are healthy and you're growing seeds that are proven to do well in your area you shouldn't have much trouble with insects, but if you do here are some ways to battle the little critters in an environmentally responsible way.
http://www.extremelygreen.com/pestcontrolguide.cfm
Here is a picture of one of my greatest success stories!
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7384]
Seeds bulbs Etc: Here are couple very good sources for Heirloom and organic seeds.
http://rareseeds.com/
http://www.seedsavers.org/Aboutus.asp
Soil: Composting
http://www.compostguide.com/
Nutrition and food safety: There have been many studies over the last 10 years or so that have shown Organic fruits and vegetables to contain more vitamins, minerals and antioxidants then conventionally grown or GMO products. They also have far less toxic chemicals and heavy metals. The FDA has not conclusively said Organic is better but I think we all know why. Many people also say that Organic just taste better, but I don't eat enough conventionally grown stuff to give an opinion. I do know that food grown at home and ripened on the plant taste far superior then anything bought from the store! Here is some info about that.
http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/Living/nutrition_research.html
Lastly, growing organically is hard work. It takes knowledge, a strong back, some patience and some faith, but the return is very rewarding! :2140:
the flying dutchman
12-28-2007, 05:20 PM
I have grown vegetables and herbs for many years, it not a hard work nor
do you need much knowledge. I have never used chemicals and hardly
any fertilizer. Just use your common sense.
Also I never kept track of what I put where.
Just walk through your garden and if you see an empty spot, put some
onions there and on another empty spot beans or whatever you like.
Don't expect it to grow as big as the vegetables in the store but as
Mitchel mentioned the taste is superior.
A good method is growing all kind of different vegetables next to each other.
I have thrown onions random on the ground without putting them into the
soil and even then they grow.
So don't worry about schedules, fertilizing and so on, you will always have
a crop. Onions can stay in the ground for years, you can eat the leaves.
I am convinced that even on a poor ground many veggies and herbs will
grow.
Ron
momoese
12-28-2007, 06:07 PM
A good method is growing all kind of different vegetables next to each other.
Ron
This is something I forgot to mention. There are several companion plants that benefit each other like the three sisters method. Another example is marigolds planted next to tomatoes to keep the nematodes away. Here is a nice list of companion plants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companion_plants
mskitty38583
12-29-2007, 12:13 AM
i love the mantis!!! go to hgtv.com and look for paul james the gardner guy. he gives all types of how tos on the natural gardening and organic gardening. HE IS MY HERO! wow dutchman i think thats the most youve ever said in a post! LOL! you need to post more. ha ha. momoese thank you for the postings on the natural ways to garden. i love it. and dutchman i never thought just to spot plant veggies. might have to try that if i ever get my garden area picked out.
magicgreen
12-29-2007, 04:35 PM
Ron thanks, i have done just what you said. Any empty spot---I put a plant! I have thrown the seeds of canna in the garden to clean up the plant, and voila! Next year i have shoots of canna!
I have left a hosta out of the soil; next spring---VOILA!!! It greens up and starts growing with the lil' bit of soil it has clinging on to it!
Onions are the same.
Ive grown so many plants, veggies, and flowers over the years!
So I am pretty confident about the bananas and other exotics!
But as a newby to the exotics, and my 1st year and winter to growing them.
I have more to learn. THis winter is teaching me alot! And as a newby--It is exciting!
5 more months to go before replanting outside. I can hardly wait!
I wonder how that basjoo is doing all wrapped up for the winter?
Along with its wrappings it has, horse manure all around it, to help the soil.
Next year I'll do like JohninNY and get a remote thermostat so i can see the temp inside the "basjoo'. That should prove interesting and FUN.
"Just my shout-out" Magicgreen
mskitty38583
12-29-2007, 07:20 PM
so now you have your camera...hahaha...TAKE SOME PICTURES! :pics: . we wanna see.we wanna see. lets see your babies in the gh you made in the basement.( look for new growth. it could happen) take pictures of what you have growing in that hot as blazes bathroom of yours. we want to see plants, and nana trees. quit reading the book and SHOOT! enquiring minds want to know...i want to know.
D_&_T
12-29-2007, 10:45 PM
we would agree about pics
magicgreen
12-30-2007, 12:08 AM
The pictures are coming....I just recieved it today!
I gotta figure out if i need a CF card or just take pics w/o it and download. I have to fiqure this doo-hickey out! I dont have help! And too proud to ask, half the time!
Wanna do a good job you know!
Iam a perfectionist by nature------sort of. :2726: Magicgreen
D_&_T
12-30-2007, 12:18 AM
most cameras have built in memory and can take few pics, then plug camera into computer thru usb cord and copy..........fun part will be resizing them
CookieCows
12-30-2007, 05:37 PM
Alot of great information! Thank you! I'm willing to try some of the natural bug repellants this year and see how it goes. I think our main problem is keeping the weeds down. The pest problem (except for japanese beetles) would be managable if the weeds were gone. It's a huge garden as our goal is always to put up enough to last through the winter. Last year we were able to get enough newspaper layed down with bark over top around all the peppers and tomatoes and that really worked out great. If we could do that with everything else it would be awesome. Especially the large areas between the squash and melon mounds. The only companion plants we've tried is a row of marigolds one year. I like the website with all the different plants that go together and will try more of that this year.
Compost we don't have a problem with. We have mounds of steer/horse manure mixed with hay in various stages of decomposition and we use that and lime on the pastures and garden.
Well it's taken me over an hour to get this much of a response done as I have grown children coming in and out of the house and I'm recovering from major dental work.
Note on Japanese Beetles: We've tried the traps and they didn't work. The only thing that has worked for us is to put grub killer on the lawn to prevent them from turning into beetles but now that we have moved out of a residential area and onto a farm it's not possible to do that anymore. So the only thing that we have found that kills the beetles when they come out is 7-dust and I know ya'll are gasping and gaging over that and the grub killer also ... but that's the way it is until we can find something else that works. I'll look more in depth at the natural bug repellent website a little later.
Thanks,
Deb
Tony O
12-30-2007, 11:38 PM
... but that's the way it is until we can find something else that works. I'll look more in depth at the natural bug repellent website a little later.
Now living in the country you can have guineas. They will help with Japanese Beetle control, as well as ticks & other insects. I wouldn't be without them.
CookieCows
12-30-2007, 11:43 PM
you know we've talked about getting those! Won't they tear up my garden though? I know people talk about putting chickens in the garden but they'll not only wreck havoc, but eat the vegetables.
mskitty38583
12-31-2007, 10:36 AM
guinease are pretty. ilove the polkadots on their feathers. their playful to. ive never seen them tear up a garden. ive seen chickens dig in a garden to get to bugs , but they never tore one up. you might lose a few plants here and there but it shouldnt be a total loss.
momoese
12-31-2007, 10:52 AM
And as they eat the bad guys they poop which is good for the garden! Or you could get the beneficial nematodes.
http://www.extremelygreen.com/Product.cfm?Name=Grub%20control%20%2D%20Beneficial%20Nematodes%2 0%2D%20Hb
Lagniappe
12-31-2007, 10:52 AM
You could use weeder geese too http://www.metzerfarms.com/weeder.htm
But the Guinea fowl are better tempered and ,IMO, more attractive.
A friends grandfather has Guinea and lost quite a few to owls. This all changed when he got a peacock ! The peacock will roost with the guinea and the owl(which picked them off the roost) has never attempted to come near .
CookieCows
12-31-2007, 11:22 AM
That is such a COOL article on weeding with geese!! We used to have 4 of the asian geese that have long necks and looked like swans when in the pond. They weren't anywhere near the garden. We gave them away as they were getting picked off by coyotes. I didn't know they left broad leaf alone when chowing down on the grass! I emailed this to my husband. I think this could be a solution for us to put into place down the road. I'm really excited about this! He can only acomplish about one project per year as he has a fatigue issue from having Multiple Sclerosis but our garden and orchard (very young trees) are butted up against the pasture fence so the fencing in wouldn't be a big issue. Mostly a money issue in buying the turkey wire to wrap around the barbed wire and the building of a house for them. I can't wait for him to get in the house to talk about this!!!
CookieCows
12-31-2007, 11:27 AM
I didn't see the nematodes post until after I posted my response about the geese...I'm going to order some of those!!!! Wow they look like ugly, wonderful things! I'm getting really excited ... I'm done with winter now!
Tropicallvr
12-31-2007, 11:34 AM
There a house up here in Montana that has this enourmous goose that isn't caged in, thinks he is a dog, lives in a dog house, and is a night watch goose. Makes me want to get one instead of a dog lol.
CookieCows
12-31-2007, 11:43 AM
our geese were cute like that ... would get all puffed up and protective. They'd march around squawking. We called them our Goose Squad
microfarmer
01-04-2008, 10:18 PM
I had 3 chickens on my backyard microfarm that would eat an amazing amount of bugs! They even fought over, tore apart, and ate a baby rat that got into their roost pen! They were funny as they flapped while running across the yard when we came outside, jump/flying over obstacles. The fresh eggs were an excellent bonus too! My SO won't let me get any more though. I'm not sure how they would affect the bananas, but see them as a highly efficient pest eater with a daily gift or two.
CookieCows
01-05-2008, 05:41 PM
We have an empty chicken coop that we have to fill up again with chickens. Have to fix a spot in the floor as a predator got in and .... well we don't have chickens anymore. But ours were free ranging too and I have seen the roosters with mice more than once. Really surprised me!! We raised them for eggs and meat but being free range, they were pretty tough.
modenacart
01-20-2008, 12:13 PM
I had 3 chickens on my backyard microfarm that would eat an amazing amount of bugs! They even fought over, tore apart, and ate a baby rat that got into their roost pen! They were funny as they flapped while running across the yard when we came outside, jump/flying over obstacles. The fresh eggs were an excellent bonus too! My SO won't let me get any more though. I'm not sure how they would affect the bananas, but see them as a highly efficient pest eater with a daily gift or two.
What do you have on your microfarm? I plan on getting three chickens this year. I wish I could get more animals but I live in a neighborhood. I am streching just getting the chickens because they are not allowed but my neighbors behind me and to my left don't mind and I don't care what the guy to the right of me thinks. He just complains all the time.
I have thought of buying organic food, but in the past it has not been well contolled. It used to be that companies would call food organic and it would just be dirty. I don't know of the regulations have gotten better.
Taylor
01-20-2008, 12:27 PM
Go for it modenacart. If they tell you no, then at least you tried!
Richard
01-20-2008, 12:40 PM
If you have read the book "The $64 Tomato", it pretty much covers my experiences with pesticides, etc.
For specific information on pest/disease control methods I've tried, see http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guides/DiseaseAndPestIntervention.pdf
For application rates of "organic" fertilizers and others, see http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/column/PTP_2008_02_The_Scoop_On_Fertilizers.pdf
Before you put agricultural animals in your yard that is not zoned for them, discreetly find out what the fine is for not having a permit. In some cities it is $10,000.
modenacart
01-20-2008, 12:43 PM
I am getting the chickens. I have already built the chicken house. I just need to finish painting and putting up the hardware cloth. I will order the chickens in about 3 weeks or so. I plan on getting a Australorp, http://www.mypetchicken.com/Australorp-B14.aspx , a Faverolle, http://www.mypetchicken.com/Faverolle-B47.aspx , and a Plymouth Rock, http://www.mypetchicken.com/Plymouth_Rock-B85.aspx, and a Polish, http://www.mypetchicken.com/Polish-B91.aspx , for fun because they are so crazy looking. The Plymount Rock is going to be the striped one.
I live in the county, its just the covenants and we don't have a commity. They would have to take me to court and I would have to get rid of the chickens.
Taylor
01-20-2008, 12:49 PM
Cool! Hopefully, his neighbors would have the decency to tell him No before the authorities would, Richard. I don't think it is a big deal. We had to call on our neighbors for having a Rooster though, because it was SO loud. We live in the city, and they had chickens, pigs, and goats on a one acre plot! So...it is possible.
I like the look of the Australorp, but I am just going by looks. What advantages does it have? Are these for eating or eggs?
Taylor
modenacart
01-20-2008, 12:50 PM
They are for eggs and for fun.
Taylor
01-20-2008, 12:51 PM
BTW modenacart,
Pictures would be nice, when you feel is right.
Taylor
01-20-2008, 12:52 PM
They are for eggs and for fun.
So Cool. 5 eggs per week from Australorp X 3 is 15...thats all our family of 4 would need.
modenacart
01-20-2008, 12:55 PM
We eat boiled eggs almost everyday. I currently get them from a farmer right down the road for $1 a dozen, which is really hard to beat, but I thought it would be fun raising the chickens. My wife also wants some pigmy goats, but that might be taking it too far for our neighborhood.
I don't have pictures of the chicks because I don't have them yet, but I have some of the chicken house.
Taylor
01-20-2008, 12:58 PM
We eat boiled eggs almost everyday. I currently get them from a farmer right down the road for $1 a dozen, which is really hard to beat, but I thought it would be fun raising the chickens. My wife also wants some pigmy goats, but that might be taking it too far for our neighborhood.
I don't have pictures of the chicks because I don't have them yet, but I have some of the chicken house.
That is a really hard price to beat.
Please post them.
modenacart
01-20-2008, 01:00 PM
Here are the pictures of the house.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7633&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7633&ppuser=501)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7634&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7634&ppuser=501)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7635&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7635&ppuser=501)
I still have some painting to do.
Richard
01-20-2008, 01:09 PM
That's a really great coup. When I lived on 40 acres in northern CA, we had chickens. The Plymouths were my favorite eggs. There was also an Australian Heeler (dog) on the property, and to satisfy its herding instincts it would "corral" the chickens into an arbitrary circle near the coup. The dog also tried to corral the cats, but that didn't work so well.
Taylor
01-20-2008, 01:09 PM
That's very professional, and should not be a big issue. it looks like no noise would escape...
My solution: The one neighbor who complains, give him or her a banana pup and a few eggs!
modenacart
01-20-2008, 01:12 PM
That's very professional, and should not be a big issue. it looks like no noise would escape...
My solution: The one neighbor who complains, give him or her a banana pup and a few eggs!
I resorted to not talking to him, I will give the eggs to the neighbors I like. The first day we moved in he came over and harrassed us before he even asked our names. You have to love people like that I guess.
The chickens are going to walk the yard and go into the house at night. Its going to be fun training the dogs to respect them, but I think the biggest challenge is keeping the bird of prey away.
I was we had a 40 acre farm, but my wife doesn't like the idea of living too far from town.
mskitty38583
01-20-2008, 04:06 PM
white rock chickens lay the best tasting eggs!
CookieCows
01-20-2008, 05:24 PM
That is such a beautiful chicken coop!!
modenacart
01-20-2008, 06:32 PM
Thanks, I have tried to keep it below the fence line and not too ugly. I hope this keeps the neighbors a bit happier.
mskitty38583
01-20-2008, 06:53 PM
as long as it is not unsightly...tell your naighbors to bite the banana. and to keep their noses on their side of the fence. people like that just make want to.....ill leave it at that. i think it is an absoulte dreamy little coop. it looks like a doll house.
Taylor
01-20-2008, 07:51 PM
Keep us updated with its progress and when the chicks arrive. Where are you buying them from?
modenacart
01-20-2008, 08:03 PM
There is a local hardware store that buys the chicks from a supplier, but the guy that runs the supplier is about 80 years old so I hope nothing happens to him. If that doesn't work a guy at work is ordering a bunch of chicks online and will let me piggyback on him. You have to order at least 25 to have them shipped.
modenacart
02-27-2008, 07:38 PM
The peeps have arrived!
Polish
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8367&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8367&ppuser=501)
Black Australorp
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8366&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8366&ppuser=501)
Barred Rock
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8365&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8365&ppuser=501)
Chickens
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8364&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8364&ppuser=501)
Chickens 2
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8368&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8368)
So far they are peeping like crazy.
Taylor
02-27-2008, 08:00 PM
Aren't those just the coolest thing since sliced bananas! :)
So Cool!!!
modenacart
02-27-2008, 08:09 PM
Almost as cool as my wife's finger nail polish!
Taylor
02-27-2008, 08:10 PM
:) It matches the curtains well!
I like the makeshift home of cardboard. Very Resourceful... Good Job!
:p
mskitty38583
02-27-2008, 08:27 PM
wel....at least they arent in the bath tub. my dad ordered chickens years ago and they lived in the bathtub for 4 weeks till dad got the coop ready. luckily we had 2 showers! lol. they are they are very cute.
modenacart
02-27-2008, 08:59 PM
They are in a plastic container. They have to stay inside for at least four weeks, depending on the weather. They have to stay at 95F the first week 90 F the second then 85F the next week then 80F.
CookieCows
02-28-2008, 12:24 AM
Adorable chicks! I love the Barred Rocks. They'll look so pretty in that awesome chicken house!
We keep ours in a plastic container in the bathtub until they hit the 85 degree mark. Then they go into the chicken coop where there's a special enclosed home just for them. We hatch about 3 batches each summer. Predators wiped us out last year and as sad as it was, it allows me to now get all Barred Rocks to start over with! (They'll match our black and white 'oreo cookie cows')
Have fun with your babies!
Deb
modenacart
02-28-2008, 08:15 PM
Thanks,
I am sure it will be lots of fun.
modenacart
03-14-2008, 10:04 PM
If you want to see the progress of the pullets (less than one year old hens) then go to Chicken Blog (http://www.pullet.blog.com). My wife is doing a great job keeping this blog up.
conejov
07-04-2009, 02:39 PM
Thanks for the info.
momoese
07-04-2009, 03:09 PM
How are they doing now?
modenacart
07-04-2009, 07:36 PM
They are doing pretty well. We had two dog attacks but they all survived. Two went broody too so we got some fertilized eggs from a friend and hatched those. We had three chicks make it. Now we have to find a place for them to go when they get a bit older. I need to get the chicken blog up to date but I have been kind of lazy.
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