View Full Version : Black Pseudostem bananas
Tropicallvr
12-18-2007, 01:41 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=6480&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6480&ppuser=35)
Musa Cheesemani
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=6201&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6201&ppuser=35)
Unknown Cavendish type
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7294&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7294&ppuser=35)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7293&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7293&ppuser=35)
Musa Ornata 'Royal Purple' seedling
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7291&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7291&ppuser=35)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7292&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7292&ppuser=35)
Unknown seeded Musa in Golden Gate Park labeled "Musa paradisica"
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7290 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6177&ppuser=35)
Musa 'Chini Champa'
I've noticed that the shady side of a clump of back stemmed bananas always has alot more black color, while the sunny side is mostly green. Larger Musa cheesmanii/nagesium seedlings grown in mostly shade will have the dark black trunk, while the same ones grown in full sun will be green/red trunked. The same thing happens with black bamboo (Phyllostachys nigra), where the sunny side of a culm will be yellow greenish, and the shady side will be black. I removed some rope at a friends black bamboo grove from his bamboo culms that was keeping the winter snow load from snapping the culms. The culms were nearly pure green, but as I removed the rope, underneath the rope it was pure black, giving the culms stripes of black on a pure green culm.
If I had a black banana like Ele Ele or black balbisiana to plant, I'd plant it so the shady side of the clump is facing me to get the best effect.:02:
microfarmer
12-18-2007, 02:29 PM
Great tip! I noticed the Cheesemanii I got from you was a burgundy red in full sun. I planned to replant it in spring so I will orient it on the shady side of the others. I'm hoping to get some Black Balbisiana from Jarred come springtime. I'll have to orient them similarly. Right now, all my inground plants are frostburned and drooping.
MediaHound
12-18-2007, 06:23 PM
Black Balbisiana gets the black from the reaction to the sun from what I understand!
Bch Grl
12-18-2007, 08:33 PM
I have an unknown banana with lots of black on the trunk and it seems to have more black on the sunny side and sun exposed areas. At this time of year, the P-stem is almost completely black
Margie
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=4958&size=1
Tropicallvr
12-18-2007, 10:15 PM
Nice I stand corrected. Maybe it depends on the species, like M.cheesmanii, and that one at Golden gate Park(should have taken pic of other green sun exposed side).
I'm still hard to convice, because people said the same thing that sun improved black bamboos coloring, but when something was wrapped around a culm it created a dark ring where light didn't touch it. Maybe someone could do a test and wrap someting fairly wide around an new growing pup's p-stem, then take it off after it is large and see if it created a dark ring.
microfarmer
12-18-2007, 10:43 PM
Nice I stand corrected. Maybe it depends on the species, like M.cheesmanii, and that one at Golden gate Park(should have taken pic of other green sun exposed side).
Hey, I can get that pic for you, though the plants might not look so good right now. We just had a storm blow thru and another on the way. Lot's of wind! What part of the park are they in? I'm always looking for a reason to take a motorcycle trip! I'll post as soon as I get back... promise...
I'm still hard to convice, because people said the same thing that sun improved black bamboos coloring, but when something was wrapped around a culm it created a dark ring where light didn't touch it. Maybe someone could do a test and wrap someting fairly wide around an new growing pup's p-stem, then take it off after it is large and see if it created a dark ring.
I can do it when Cheesmanii pups for me, still none yet. Prolly in the spring.
Tropicallvr
12-19-2007, 07:34 AM
Alright, and the clump may even have some ripe bananas with seeds! It's in the park who's entrance is across from the Japanese tea gardens. There are tons of palms and tree ferns, and you'll find the clump if you basically take a right hand turn and stay towards the right on that path. You'll pass some silver Ceroxylon species erupting from the ground, and some Jubea chilinensis on your right then there's a huge tree that has a Chamodorea costricticana under it, and on the other side of the tree is the banana clump with the black side of the clump facing the path.
Here's a picture of bigdog's Musa cheesmanii, and what it looks like when grown in full sun(mine was grown in almost total shade).
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=1036&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1036&ppuser=49)
Hope you don't mind me reposting it.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=6480&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6480&ppuser=35)
Now mine in deep shade (moved it for this pic into more sun!)
Tropicallvr
12-21-2007, 07:04 PM
Hey if anybody has anymore black bananas, please post some pics!
Bchgirl- Wouldn't mind seeing some more of that one!
Gabe15
12-21-2007, 07:10 PM
I'm still hard to convice, because people said the same thing that sun improved black bamboos coloring, but when something was wrapped around a culm it created a dark ring where light didn't touch it. Maybe someone could do a test and wrap someting fairly wide around an new growing pup's p-stem, then take it off after it is large and see if it created a dark ring.
You can just peel back a leaf sheath (below the petiole) and see what color the pseudostem is without direct sun exposure.
Bch Grl
12-22-2007, 01:16 AM
Sure...when I get back to FL( I'm in L.A. for Xmas:santananer::0521: :santananer: ) I'll take lots of pics. It is just now opening a flower and maybe someone can ID it for me, too.:0496:
Margie
:blueskirtnaner:
microfarmer
12-22-2007, 11:09 AM
Alright, and the clump may even have some ripe bananas with seeds!.
I don't want to go to jail, though, If I can get away with some seeds, I'll attempt it.
It's in the park who's entrance is across from the Japanese tea gardens. There are tons of palms and tree ferns, and you'll find the clump if you basically take a right hand turn and stay towards the right on that path.
Can you pin it down a little closer for me?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=japanese+tea+garden,+san+francisco&ie=UTF8&ll=37.769765,-122.468162&spn=0.017403,0.028925&t=h&z=15&om=1
http://www.holymtn.com/garden/JapaneseTeaGardenMap.htm
You'll pass some silver Ceroxylon species erupting from the ground, and some Jubea chilinensis on your right then there's a huge tree that has a Chamodorea costricticana under it, and on the other side of the tree is the banana clump with the black side of the clump facing the path.
I'll print some images to take with me for ID. My friend wants to go with me and we have a ride date of next Saturday morning. He also wants to go to the Presidio and the old gun emplacements under the Golden Gate Bridge that protected the San Francisco Bay from invading foriegn navies. I've been told there's a good Morrocan restaurant in the Haight as well...(Haight/Ashbury)
Thanks,
Jeff
mskitty38583
12-22-2007, 12:37 PM
you need to be careful....i dont have bail money...lol. i know out in cali, if your in a nationa park(like in the coyomacka mountians) and you pick up seeds and pods and the park rangers see you do this..its a 500.00 fine for each seed. we went there on a family outting and i wanted some seeds off this really odd looking cedar. i didnt pick them off the trees i got them off the ground..well needless to say the rangers saw me do it and took me straight to my parents. i had over 15 seeds in my pockets and i left the park w/ no seeds. my parents said the seeds were not worth 500.00 each. i thought they were, but when you 14 yrs. old anything you want is worth it.. so just be careful. did you know that rose rustling is actually a crime even if its on public land???
Tropicallvr
12-22-2007, 01:08 PM
There a quite a few palm people that I know of that collect seeds in that park. I bet it wouldn't be a big deal to take seeds from a stem that had bloomed/rotted and fell to the ground, but they might dispose of that sort of stuff pretty quick.
Anyways the entrance to the Strybing Arboretum is just to the left of "C" on your tea gardens Map if you go south from Martin Luthar King drive into the park. Look at the two parrell white lines on the road(just left of the "C") that run north/south. They point straight into the Strybing Arboretum's entrance. If you walk straight/look south into the park you'll be facing a lake/pond. That will tell you that your in the right place, not to mention all the palm trees.
You'll find the banana if you stick to the right paths just after you enter the park. There's a building on your right, but just keep walking past while chooseing the right most path as the paths divide. If you get lost you won't be upset because it's really nicely landscaped, super tropical!
I can't figure out how to pinpoint the exact location using google maps, but if you look just left of that grey roofed building(on the map) it is just in those trees.
microfarmer
12-22-2007, 08:50 PM
you need to be careful....i dont have bail money...lol. (snip) so just be careful. did you know that rose rustling is actually a crime even if its on public land???
I never heard of rose rustling...:ropingnaner:
There a quite a few palm people that I know of that collect seeds in that park. I bet it wouldn't be a big deal to take seeds from a stem that had bloomed/rotted and fell to the ground, but they might dispose of that sort of stuff pretty quick.
Anyways the entrance to the Strybing Arboretum is just to the left of "C" on your tea gardens Map if you go south from Martin Luthar King drive into the park. Look at the two parrell white lines on the road(just left of the "C") that run north/south. They point straight into the Strybing Arboretum's entrance. If you walk straight/look south into the park you'll be facing a lake/pond. That will tell you that your in the right place, not to mention all the palm trees.
You'll find the banana if you stick to the right paths just after you enter the park. There's a building on your right, but just keep walking past while chooseing the right most path as the paths divide. If you get lost you won't be upset because it's really nicely landscaped, super tropical!
I can't figure out how to pinpoint the exact location using google maps, but if you look just left of that grey roofed building(on the map) it is just in those trees.
Cool! Kinda like a treasure hunt. I feel like it's banana recon. :2715:
I should be able to find it with those directions. With all the palms, a banana should stand out a bit. we'll see what happens. I'm going to copy all the directions and take many pictures. I'm not opposed to taking 'about to rot', or rotting fruit off the tree. I might even bring a rope and weight to fling into the bunch to bring it a little closer to pick a nanner or 2 or 5...
:ropingnaner:
Now if only I could work out the bugs on my computer so I can download my pics.
Tropicallvr
12-22-2007, 10:02 PM
LOL, banana recon. The stems are pretty tall, so a rope might be the ticket, be careful not to get busted.
The reason I think it's seeded is cause when I went, it looked like someone had pulled down one of the (undeveloped bananas) blooming stems trying to eat them or something, and it seemed to have undeveloped seeds, but the one that is in the pic looks really plump, so maybe seeds were developing in there?
mskitty38583
12-23-2007, 01:40 AM
rose rustlin' is the same thing as cattle rustlin', but with roses not cows.:2118: . and in the state of texas cattle rustlin' is still on the books as a hanging offense:bungejumpnaner: , i dont know if rose rustlin' is a hanging offense, but texas is not the place you wanna get caught doing ANY kind of rustlin'. not that i would know.....:eek: i dont know if banana rustlin' is ileagle or not. we dont want to see you on the news saying," i shot the sheriff, but i did not shoot the deputy,but i swear it was in self-defense."
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 02:01 AM
i dont know if banana rustlin' is ileagle or not.
Now, IANAL, but most of the time taking something that does not belong to you is illegal... in most places it is called larceny (or burglary depending on the circumstances) and depending on the value of the items taken (and once again the circumstances surrounding the crime) could tag you with a felony.
Just my $.02,
-James-
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 02:06 AM
I have an unknown banana with lots of black on the trunk and it seems to have more black on the sunny side and sun exposed areas. At this time of year, the P-stem is almost completely black
Margie
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=4958&size=1
That looks alot like my 'Herans' as far as p-stem markings go... this summer it got almost completely black on the petioles and p-stem in full sun... now that it is inside it has almost no black on the stem.
Tropicallvr
12-23-2007, 02:30 AM
rose rustlin' is the same thing as cattle rustlin', but with roses not cows.:2118: . and in the state of texas cattle rustlin' is still on the books as a hanging offense:bungejumpnaner: , i dont know if rose rustlin' is a hanging offense, but texas is not the place you wanna get caught doing ANY kind of rustlin'. not that i would know.....:eek: i dont know if banana rustlin' is ileagle or not. we dont want to see you on the news saying," i shot the sheriff, but i did not shoot the deputy,but i swear it was in self-defense."
There's a huge difference between taking seeds, and digging up a plant. You could take those same dried up seed heads off the rose and get in no trouble at all.
You guys are overreacting.
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 02:58 AM
Sorry Tropicallvr... I shoulda specified, I was referring to someone digging up a banana plant outta someone's yard (my definition of "banana rustlin')... you are right I see nothing wrong with simply nipping a few seeds.... and in most cases I couldn't see any owners of banana plants, or roses, or anything else for that matter getting too upset over it.
I was mainly trying to point out to miss kitty that yes "banana rustlin'" is in fact a crime referring to taking the whole plant (wild plants for collection/study and/or ones where no permission would be required, for whatever reason, are excluded from this)
Of course that is not to say that there isn't some sort of obscure law regarding seed collection on state/gov't run parks/land... I would definately ask around a bit... a few seeds are not worth the possibility of losing freedom...
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 03:16 AM
And on another note I would love to snag a couple extra seeds from ya if you happen to get them... just sayin' :D
By the way I am looking through some of my resources to find out if there are going to be an legality issues (which I doubt there will be).
microfarmer
12-23-2007, 12:03 PM
After witnessing the complete and utter trashing of Golden Gate Park, and severe trampling of the plantings, at a WOMAD festival, I am not concerned with the impact of what a few missing bananas will be as they rot and fall to the ground. I will keep one eye over my shoulder and do it discreetly and with as little impact as possible. I enjoy the beauty of such places, and was taught from a young age to leave it as nice or nicer (thus the removal of rotting fruit) than when I arrive, so others can enjoy it too. I will post my findings when I return.
Meanwhile, my almost black stemmed Cheesmanii sleeps under it's lawn-n-leaf bag til March. Welcome to (officially) winter...
mskitty38583
12-23-2007, 01:44 PM
by no means should it cause trouble for you in the beautification of the removal of dead material.( it is called dead heading in the rose world) i see no problem with that. the point i was trying to make is that everyone else might not see it that way. there are people out there who would think that it is stealing..me personally i dont think its stealing...your just helping to propigate a new tree, rosebush etc. and the joke was that i dont have bail money..you were suppossed to lol. there is a nation park in yorktown va, along the parkway heading to historical yorktown. they have some of the most beautiful trees and wild ferns there and if a ranger sees you taking seeds, its an instant ticket that goes before a federal judge.( my dad worked for this federal judge in york co.) and the fines are huge. there is also a chance of jail time. my comments were only ment as a cautionary statement, it was not ment to upset you by any means. i dont know if it is the same at a botanical garden or not, but after getting caught in san diego, and at the parkway in yorktown,va. you kind of get a little jumpy at the thought of taking seeds from anywhere.
Rmplmnz
12-23-2007, 06:05 PM
FHIA - 25
Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden
December 21, 2007
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 06:12 PM
Neat... thanks Rmplmnz...
for anyone who doesn't know FHIA-25 is a.k.a. 'Herans'
Rmplmnz
12-23-2007, 06:17 PM
Thanks James/Klemmthan (someday you have to tell us what that means:-)
I did not know FHIA - 25 = Heran
Rmplmnz
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 07:08 PM
lol.... it is German, or at least Klemmt is... it means wedges.
Hamm is my family's original last name before moving to the U.S.
so being the brilliant little guy I am, I thought it'd be funny to have my name as Hamm wedges... (that is not the word for ham in German, just a play on words)
:D
mskitty38583
12-23-2007, 07:28 PM
ours was heidel. and i have no clue what that means. except they came from hidelburg, germany. hamm wedges...ok i get it now. i have been trying to pronounce it for months. love the pics by the way they are pretty. had no idea thats what the 25 ment- heran. thanks for the info.
Rmplmnz
12-23-2007, 08:00 PM
lol.... it is German, or at least Klemmt is... it means wedges.
Hamm is my family's original last name before moving to the U.S.
so being the brilliant little guy I am, I thought it'd be funny to have my name as Hamm wedges... (that is not the word for ham in German, just a play on words)
:D
Cool....you can guess where I can up with Rmplmnz...
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 08:17 PM
Rumple Stilskin?... :D
Lagniappe
12-23-2007, 08:20 PM
RumpleMintze ?
klemmthamm
12-23-2007, 08:31 PM
Pete you are right.... it is a mint schnopp's ... I was just goofing with him
Rmplmnz
12-23-2007, 09:11 PM
;-)
Greenie
12-24-2007, 12:09 AM
Neat... thanks Rmplmnz...
for anyone who doesn't know FHIA-25 is a.k.a. 'Herans'
....and here is what it is capable of producing:eek: .Got this pic from a relative in south florida
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7343&size=1
Bch Grl
12-24-2007, 01:06 AM
Chris...Mitchel (momoese) and I were speculating on what your name meant just yesterday! We never did figure out what it meant.
I was able to get out to see him while visiting family in L.A. Unfortunately, forgot to get pictures.....:hiiiiyanana:
Chris, you also commented on this pic(my unknown black P-stem) that it looked familar to you...could you have been thinking of FHIA-18 or something else?
Bch Grl
12-24-2007, 01:14 AM
James and Greenie...
My unknown black P-stem might just be Herons???? the pics looks very similar! It just flowered and I'll post pics when I get back to FL. Does anyone have pics of the Herons' flower to compare to mine?:2753:
Margie:gif_esqui
klemmthamm
12-24-2007, 01:26 AM
....and here is what it is capable of producing:eek: .Got this pic from a relative in south florida
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7343&size=1
Sa-weeeeeeeet.
klemmthamm
12-24-2007, 01:32 AM
James and Greenie...
My unknown black P-stem might just be Herons???? the pics looks very similar! It just flowered and I'll post pics when I get back to FL. Does anyone have pics of the Herons' flower to compare to mine?:2753:
Margie:gif_esqui
I don't.... mine is still pretty small, barely topping out at 3 ft. and my larger ones never flowered back in the day (a couple o' years ago)
Just by looking at your pic I would say several things appear very similar to some of the larger 'herans'/FHIA-25 I used to have. I will post a link to some more info I have about the FHIA-25 when I get home tomorrow... or whenever I remember :D
-James-
klemmthamm
12-24-2007, 01:34 AM
Chris...Mitchel (momoese) and I were speculating on what your name meant just yesterday! We never did figure out what it meant.
I was able to get out to see him while visiting family in L.A. Unfortunately, forgot to get pictures.....:hiiiiyanana:
Chris, you also commented on this pic(my unknown black P-stem) that it looked familar to you...could you have been thinking of FHIA-18 or something else?
need to drink more then! :D
Rmplmnz
12-24-2007, 10:56 AM
Chris...Mitchel (momoese) and I were speculating on what your name meant just yesterday! We never did figure out what it meant.
I was able to get out to see him while visiting family in L.A. Unfortunately, forgot to get pictures.....:hiiiiyanana:
Chris, you also commented on this pic(my unknown black P-stem) that it looked familar to you...could you have been thinking of FHIA-18 or something else?
Hey Margie,
No..I was not thinking of an FHIA...I will have to dig in to the vault to figure out which banana I was thinking of.....so many different varieties over the years...
Cool that you went to CA....
Chris
Panaroma
12-27-2007, 08:25 AM
I have 20 seedling musa Helens. They are all in pot and about 1 m tall. One of them has a complete black stem and his leaves are wider then the rest of them. The growthrate was the same, just like the other conditions like; lightexposure, watering, feeding,... I looked at one of his parents (Chini-Champa) and he lookes very much the same.
His hardyness is good, also like the rest of them. They all took a -3 c in the greenhouse (outside it was -12 c). Only their leaves are shattered and their stems are all perfectly unharmed by frost. (maybe, except one, outside layer has a litle frostbite).
Other thing I noticed was that the frozen parts (dead cells) of the the black-stemmed one Dry out very easy, and then it stops. I find this interresting because the quicker it dries its frozen wounds, the better it can protect itself against (inner)rot, fungus, but mostly the frost itself. It creates a nice dry insulation itself. The green stemmed ones frozen parts are more mushy for an extend of time.... infleuence of Sikkimensis? Not enough backcrossed? How much different types of Helens can one find!??
I also have a Helens seedling that is just growing much faster then the rest. He's much higher, taller, he looks like somekind of swordsucker. It's my fastest musa so far. Quite a contrast, if looked next to the one with the black stem wich is more robust.
I'm really going to keep those two! lol
So, to all u interrested readers,
Best of wishes,
Panaroma, Brussels
Tropicallvr
12-27-2007, 11:00 AM
Thanks for that info Panaroma. I've been wondering if anyone got one that had more of the black stem trait of Chini Champa from that hybrid. I wonder if the Musa helens seed that is being sold is F1 hybrid seed or F2 hybrid seed?
Please post some pics when you get a chance, or maybe later in the summer when they look their best!
Bch Grl
12-27-2007, 11:32 PM
Ok...Got pics of the Black P-stem flower...They are kind of messy because I leave the dry leaves on for isulation in the winter. Can anyone ID them for me???? There are a few more pics in my gallery.:2733:
Margie:pinkskirtnaner:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7379&size=1
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7381&size=1
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=7382&size=1
I_GROWER
02-05-2014, 01:50 PM
Hey if anybody has anymore black bananas, please post some pics!
As I continue to inspect my unknown bananas i notice these dwarfs have black pstems
http://i.imgur.com/mGwIHtx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MhNrpJx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DFpgFcx.jpg
heres another but not as much "black" on the stem
http://i.imgur.com/YhESDVW.jpg
funny no dwarfs on this thread :( my search continues
As I continue to inspect my unknown bananas i notice these dwarfs have black pstems
http://i.imgur.com/mGwIHtx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MhNrpJx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DFpgFcx.jpg
heres another but not as much "black" on the stem
http://i.imgur.com/YhESDVW.jpg
funny no dwarfs on this thread :( my search continues
Maybe it's Dwarf Cavendish http://www.bananas.org/f2/share-your-roadside-banana-photos-19250-2.html#post234690 :waving:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3757/11041602563_bc05c07bd1_c.jpg
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