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aroidgrower
12-16-2007, 01:46 PM
I have been looking in genetic modification of plants and animals for sometime. I seems like a very interesting new science and some of the results seem more scifi than real. A few years back a fire fly gene was put in a orchid and the plant now glows in the dark. I have heard it is being mass produced but I hear it's about 2,000.00 a plant yet I have not seen one offered at this price personally.
I have a friend who works in this field and I also recently found a website that aparently will do this work for a price. Both my friend and the company said they would be willing to do the work which could take 1 to 2 years and cost would be higher than I am willing to pay.
I thought that people here would be interested to know that the reality of a glowing banana is out their. The plants probably best to use Ae Ae or the lime form of Siam Ruby. I have also seen were new animals genes are being use. The bioluminescent genes were once just yellow lime green color they now have blue orange and red. I believe their is some work to make the brighter as well. Now a glow in the dark banana sounds interesting as a novelty to me but the potential for adding hardy genese disease tollerant and other useful genes are being worked with as well.
This science looks to produce a lot of useful and interesting products and organisims but the downside to this work can but very dangerous. The glowing gene which is aparently harmless seems more novel than any of the other work I have read about. Some thinks like producing grass that is roundup tollerant were you can spray you whole yard with roundup and the grass will survive. The problem here was the grass was being grown and pollenated with similar weedy grasses producing super weeds which are tollerant of roundup. Other creations are now being shown in the guinness book of records they have a whole section for the first genetically modified plants and animals in it was the first glow in the dark rabbit, cat , pics and mice also being used are florecent genes but these only glow under the florecent or black lights.
Well hope maybe in years to come we will see some of these crazy creations I am thinking the price for the work now would be around 70 to 150 thousand dollars. Anyone interseted LOL.

Sodak
12-16-2007, 01:53 PM
I just want a banana that will survive a zone 5 winter without building a house over it.

Has anyone found one yet?

mskitty38583
12-16-2007, 01:55 PM
have you not seen the movie" I am legend" yet. maybe not a good idea to start genetically mutating things. they have a newsbite on yahoo about glow in the dark cats that they cloned, they glow under florecence or black lights i believe. scare me....... i have psyco cats now, dont need them to creep me out too. uhhhhhhh. so they go putting these 'genes' into things....no wonder people are seeing aliens. heck they glow in the dark too dont they? lol.

aroidgrower
12-16-2007, 02:02 PM
Sodak I am putting a new banana into TC that maybe the answer for you hardiness problem. It was a collected banana seed that I grew 3 years ago. I have been unable to flower it yet or get a true ID. It has flaps on the stems similar to basjoo but they tend to dry up and turn fiberous. The plant produces large rhizomes similar to basjoo but they spreed much more and are usually 1 to almost 2 feet under ground. It has survived the last 3 years here in zone 6 better than basjoo. I think you would have to protect it but it does look to be faster hardier and taller growing than basjoo so far. More test are still needed to see what all it can do.

Sodak
12-16-2007, 02:18 PM
Sodak I am putting a new banana into TC that maybe the answer for you hardiness problem. It was a collected banana seed that I grew 3 years ago. I have been unable to flower it yet or get a true ID. It has flaps on the stems similar to basjoo but they tend to dry up and turn fiberous. The plant produces large rhizomes similar to basjoo but they spreed much more and are usually 1 to almost 2 feet under ground. It has survived the last 3 years here in zone 6 better than basjoo. I think you would have to protect it but it does look to be faster hardier and taller growing than basjoo so far. More test are still needed to see what all it can do.

Now that would be really great. I wouldn't mind mulching, covering, etc. in the winter, but I have yet to hear of truly successful overwinter of Basjoo, Sikkimensis in a zone 5. Something like this would be absolutely fantastic, and potentially very profitable. Put me down on your list once you get it working. I have faith!

Cheers.

51st state
12-16-2007, 05:11 PM
Yup, stick me on the list once you get a nice hardy one in T.C.

got a name for it yet?

Tropicallvr
12-16-2007, 08:23 PM
Sodak I am putting a new banana into TC that maybe the answer for you hardiness problem. It was a collected banana seed that I grew 3 years ago. I have been unable to flower it yet or get a true ID. It has flaps on the stems similar to basjoo but they tend to dry up and turn fiberous. The plant produces large rhizomes similar to basjoo but they spreed much more and are usually 1 to almost 2 feet under ground. It has survived the last 3 years here in zone 6 better than basjoo. I think you would have to protect it but it does look to be faster hardier and taller growing than basjoo so far. More test are still needed to see what all it can do.

Wow that sounds really promising. Where is the seed from, China?
Do you have some pictures?
Thanks

aroidgrower
12-16-2007, 08:55 PM
The seedling did have a bit more red on the trunk than other seedlings but it is a species and unless I can find large enough difference in the seedlings it will be sold only under its species name if and when I can ID it with no cultivar name.

MediaHound
12-16-2007, 10:12 PM
We've talked about it here before, I really can't wait to see one or at least a photo!
If anybody ever has access to purchase these, send me a message!

AllenF
12-16-2007, 10:17 PM
I am all for a Zone 5 banana and would like to be in on the first batch.

Allen

bigdog
12-16-2007, 10:54 PM
Sounds like a Musa itinerans variety. I seem to remember you posting a picture of a banana that you dug up last fall, only to find long rhizomes. Was it ordered from natureproducts.net? If it was, I'm pretty sure that's Musa itinerans.

Here's the thread I'm referring to:
http://www.bananas.org/showthread.php?t=1232

I think I have the same thing as you, Brian. Nice to hear that yours made it through the winter! I wasn't sure if you had trialed yours there yet or not. I have left mine out, and it is still growing during mild spells.

As for transgenic plants, they are pretty neat. In fact, that was my area of study here at UT Knoxville until this semester. I finally had to examine whether or not I wanted to be in a lab for the rest of my career, and decided against it. So, back to production hort. for me! A professor on campus is working on a florescent plant, with genes from jellyfish, that will help to identify areas where unexploded land mines are located. Don't ask me anything about it, lol, I only know that much.

bencelest
12-17-2007, 12:50 AM
Bananas that glows in the dark?
Sounds scary doesn't it?

Tropicallvr
12-17-2007, 01:54 AM
What were the other seedlings that it had more red than? Must have come from some batch. I trialed a couple large M. initerans from nature products(the running type). The M. initerans that is sold by nature products seemed less hardy at a similar size than the one sold by agri starts, although I wasn't exactly happy that the two runners didn't survive next to the agri start one, it gave me some info on the pecking order of the initerans.
For me- 1 Agri starts initerans(possibly M.yunnaninsis)
2. Burmese blue
3. Initerans gigantea (the runner)
And Musa initerans form india is still untested!
Not sure if I'm totally correct about the order of 2 and 3 but number one seemed right on.

I heard about that thing that is used for finding mines. You have to hold the jelly fish just where it's tenticles touch the ground, then it zaps the mines dead. Just kidding, but it sounds like a good idea with all those post war areas with land mines, and cluster bombs.

MediaHound
12-17-2007, 06:39 PM
:colorwoot::2711::2688::2715::2783::2124:


:pics:

mskitty38583
12-17-2007, 08:45 PM
mediahound....that one hurt. thanks for the laugh!

Mustang
12-18-2007, 04:41 PM
Sodak I am putting a new banana into TC that maybe the answer for you hardiness problem. .....I think you would have to protect it but it does look to be faster hardier and taller growing than basjoo so far. More test are still needed to see what all it can do.

If you need help testing it Brian, just let me know and I'll happily help out ! ;)

MediaHound
12-18-2007, 06:32 PM
A professor on campus is working on a florescent plant, with genes from jellyfish, that will help to identify areas where unexploded land mines are located. Don't ask me anything about it, lol, I only know that much.

We all know that's what cows are for...

:2709::2118::2780:

:ha:

seriously, though.. they use cows for this in some places..

Kerrpe
12-19-2007, 10:21 AM
What happens when you eat a glowing banana?

bencelest
12-19-2007, 10:32 AM
My opinion is that you will glow too!
In the dark.
You are what you eat.
That's why I said it's scary.

mskitty38583
12-19-2007, 11:24 AM
have you not seen the movie" I am legend" yet. maybe not a good idea to start genetically mutating things. they have a newsbite on yahoo about glow in the dark cats that they cloned, they glow under florecence or black lights i believe. scare me....... i have psyco cats now, dont need them to creep me out too. uhhhhhhh. so they go putting these 'genes' into things....no wonder people are seeing aliens. heck they glow in the dark too dont they? lol.

see i told you genetically mutating things is bad juju! im going into law enforcement i have to be incognito, i cant glow in the dark!:2182: they could see me for miles i would not be able to hide anywhere.

bencelest
12-19-2007, 06:13 PM
heh-heh, so you can't eat the glow in the dark banana Mskitty.
Eh?

aroidgrower
12-19-2007, 06:32 PM
From what I have gathered with this certain gene it is found in sea creatures and is often eated with no side effects squid fish and other sea creatures have this exact gene.
The more I have heard about gene manipulation the more amazing and frightening somethings can be. Their is a new term called genetic pollution and this is were a undisired gene is introduced and then replicates itself. Much different than chemical pollution were with time it will delute, genetic pollution can multiply.
Another scary idea is drugs that can change your genes now from my understanding they have used viruses like HIV to carry genes into a animal the genes with then showup as it spreads the gene with the virus. The idea is to get a non invasive virus and add the desired genes to it and then able to trasefer them into a mature person or animal. My thinking is could this gene then be transfered with a kiss or with blood? The reality could be very scary in someways. Their are very few laws or guidlines about it now hopefully this will change.
On another note if one is looking to become a superhero they have 6 mice that have been genetically altered
1 has super strength gene taken away myostatin blocker
2 super smart photographic memory
3 super eye sight
4 super fast
5 super agile
6 able to heal faster. I am not sure if this is with the Flatworm Gene which I have heard of work being used were you could possibly regrow a arm if it were cut off?

From what I have heard all of these genes could easily be put into a human.

Their was one other which was research on antiaging. I have not heard much on it is a few years but it looked very possible at the time.

mskitty38583
12-19-2007, 10:35 PM
i dont eat anything that has been genetically engineered, or genetically altered in any way.

i am sam, sam i am and hell no i wont eat a glow in the dark nana and wont eat any necular ham. wont eat it here, wont eat it there. i wont eat it anywere. not on a train, not in a bus, and if you try and make me, i will probably cuss. cause, i am sam, sam i am. :2124: :2124: :2124: :2124: :2124: :2124: :2124: :2124:

aroidgrower
12-20-2007, 01:59 AM
You probably already have eaten more than you think of it LOL. Sorry Sam!! Sad but true.

mskitty38583
12-20-2007, 02:31 AM
not if it specifically states organic.:dreadlocksnaner:

AllenF
12-20-2007, 11:46 AM
Sorry Miss Kitty. Organic just indicates that no chemicals or man made fertilizers were used in raising it.

You would be surprised how many genetically altered vegetables and grain are in use. There is no way to segregate the plants that were altered in the past 20 years and allowed to breed with unaltered plants.

Tomatoes got such a nice red color (or yellow, orange, wine for that matter), and such good storage and shipping properties through much more than simple cross breeding. The same thing applies to most other plants where color, storage, disease resistance etc. are important.

Allen

PS - Most hard spring wheat has been generically altered or has been bred with wheat that has been genetically altered to resist a disease called 'rust'. This happened about 30 years ago. Hard spring wheat is used for bread and other baking.

AllenF
12-20-2007, 12:01 PM
Most genetic altering was called progress and most of the people involved were very concerned about the effect on the consumer.

With the recent lack of morals and ethics in corporations, it is hard to believe that concern for the consumer is very high on their list of priorities. Recent genetic engineering concerns me.

Allen

mskitty38583
12-20-2007, 12:05 PM
i know, i know.i just am totally against this type of engineering. i really believe it is wrong.my personal opinion.:eek: thats why im trying to get a garden patch together. that way i know where my food comes from and whats in it, the mennonites here in sparta refuse to do any of this, so i will start buying my meat there. i do not agree with cloneing , i do not agree with genetically engineering of food for anytype of consumption. i believe it is moraly wrong. i have serious issues with this type of science.

momoese
12-20-2007, 12:10 PM
You probably already have eaten more than you think of it LOL. Sorry Sam!! Sad but true.

Yep, if you have eaten fast food you have eaten GMO's. The corn in the taco shells, the wheat in the tortillas, the beans, the tomatoes, etc etc. It's tough to avoid.

mskitty38583
12-20-2007, 12:16 PM
i dont eat fastfood. no only is it gross it is totally unhealthy.

Tropicallvr
12-20-2007, 01:06 PM
Monsanto is trying to patent every crop and animal it can get its hands on. They are even trying to patent pigs now, as well as ancient basmati rice from India and many other things that have been growing naturally for thousands of years.
Organic canola growers in Canada have had their crops contaminated with GMO, then the GMO patent owners for that canola sued them for growing the patented canloa(because it got pollinated and then it showed up in the next years planting of the organic canolas DNA). Natural corn growers have also been sued for the same thing in the US.
In my opinion the motivation to grow GMO by big corpirations is really just money and control.

mskitty38583
12-20-2007, 02:12 PM
i believe that in the uk, youd have to ask some of our members from there, their government has banned the use and sale of geneticall engineered grains and cloned foods. i remember hearing something on pbs about that, just cant remember exactly what it was. i agree on the controll and the greed issue. america needs to put its backing back into our farmers and let us grow our own food again, instead of getting our main foods from places like china. im all for helping underdevoloped countries in the econimic depts, but we need to take care of our country first. all these farmes who were 'run' into the ground( to coin a phrase) was the worst thing that our country has done. we have become a country who relies on other countries, instead of the country who relies on itself. we were a most self-sufficient country and now its gone to @#$% in a hand basket when it comes to taking care of our own. i think our fore fathers would roll over in their graves if they saw how our country is today. i believe they would probable go back across the big pond, do to the fact that everything that america was built upon has litterly gone down the toilet.:eek:. paul harvey, now you know the rest of the story!

Taylor
12-20-2007, 03:54 PM
The FlavrSavr Tomato

http://odofin.com/english/is.jpg

Info....
http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/arcadia-tomato-diagram.jpg

bencelest
12-20-2007, 05:24 PM
Very well said Mskitty.
Even when the US car makers were overtaken badly by the Japanese car makers and the sale of the US cars were plumeting downwards, what did the ICOs and the executives did? Nothing. But they were collecting megabucks in terms of bonuses each year.
What happened to the coined phrase "The American Way?"

bigdog
12-20-2007, 06:06 PM
Although transgenic wheat does exist in labs and in trial areas, no transgenic wheat has ever been grown commercially, and you have never eaten any genetically-altered wheat. This could change in the next decade, but the resistance among wheat farmers is pretty strong here in North America. Monsanto decided against it several years ago based on farners' resistance.

As mentioned, you almost have no way around eating something that has been genetically modified, whether it be corn, soybeans, or tomatoes. And you probably survived it with no ill effects at all! People are scared of things they don't know much about, and reasonably so. Technology is changing so quickly every day with biotechnology. The trouble with this field right now is that there isn't any regulation outside of the USDA scientists. So large corporations don't have any standards that they must meet (but USDA scientists DO). I want to believe that these corporations are being responsible and doing the necessary testing before introducing new plants, but you never know. Then again, there are not any transgenic plants currently grown that have ever been shown to be unsafe to people.

Sodak
12-20-2007, 07:58 PM
Soooo... How 'bout them bananas?

Tropicallvr
12-20-2007, 08:20 PM
I have been looking in genetic modification of plants and animals for sometime. I seems like a very interesting new science and some of the results seem more scifi than real. A few years back a fire fly gene was put in a orchid and the plant now glows in the dark. I have heard it is being mass produced but I hear it's about 2,000.00 a plant yet I have not seen one offered at this price personally.
I have a friend who works in this field and I also recently found a website that aparently will do this work for a price. Both my friend and the company said they would be willing to do the work which could take 1 to 2 years and cost would be higher than I am willing to pay.
I thought that people here would be interested to know that the reality of a glowing banana is out their. The plants probably best to use Ae Ae or the lime form of Siam Ruby. I have also seen were new animals genes are being use. The bioluminescent genes were once just yellow lime green color they now have blue orange and red. I believe their is some work to make the brighter as well. Now a glow in the dark banana sounds interesting as a novelty to me but the potential for adding hardy genese disease tollerant and other useful genes are being worked with as well.
This science looks to produce a lot of useful and interesting products and organisims but the downside to this work can but very dangerous. The glowing gene which is aparently harmless seems more novel than any of the other work I have read about. Some thinks like producing grass that is roundup tollerant were you can spray you whole yard with roundup and the grass will survive. The problem here was the grass was being grown and pollenated with similar weedy grasses producing super weeds which are tollerant of roundup. Other creations are now being shown in the guinness book of records they have a whole section for the first genetically modified plants and animals in it was the first glow in the dark rabbit, cat , pics and mice also being used are florecent genes but these only glow under the florecent or black lights.
Well hope maybe in years to come we will see some of these crazy creations I am thinking the price for the work now would be around 70 to 150 thousand dollars. Anyone interseted LOL.

Thanks for posting this glowing/hot topic. I'm not sure if I'd want one, but if anyones seen those tiny floceflorecents in the ocean they will never forget it. They are amazing when they are in the waves that are breaking on the beach. I think they showed kinda what they look like in the movie "The beach" with Leonardo Decapreo.
I googled genetically modified bananas and came up with an article that said that bananas are going to die out if not DNA modified. Is this correct?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/04/05/BUGF75VU791.DTL

momoese
12-20-2007, 10:07 PM
I googled genetically modified bananas and came up with an article that said that bananas are going to die out if not DNA modified. Is this correct?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/04/05/BUGF75VU791.DTL

Sounds like BS to me. I know there are at least two camps that are trying to come up with the next commercially viable banana.

momoese
12-20-2007, 10:18 PM
there are not any transgenic plants currently grown that have ever been shown to be unsafe to people.

Everything is tested on rats first.

The very first crop submitted to the FDA's voluntary consultation
process, the FlavrSavr tomato, showed evidence of toxins. Out of 20
female rats fed the GM tomato, 7 developed stomach lesions.[4] The
director of FDA's Office of Special Research Skills wrote that the
tomatoes did not demonstrate a "reasonable certainty of no harm,"[5]
which is their normal standard of safety. The Additives Evaluation
Branch agreed that "unresolved questions still remain."[6] The
political appointees, however, did not require that the tomato be
withdrawn.

According to Arpad Pusztai, PhD, one of the world's leading experts
in GM food safety assessments, the type of stomach lesions linked to
the tomatoes "could lead to life-endangering hemorrhage, particularly
in the elderly who use aspirin to prevent [blood clots]."[7] Pusztai
believes that the digestive tract should be the first target of GM
food risk assessment, because the gut is the first (and largest) point
of contact with the foods; it can reveal various reactions to toxins.
He was upset, however, that the research on the FlavrSavr never looked
passed the stomach to the intestines. Other studies that did look
found problems.

momoese
12-20-2007, 10:34 PM
http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2005/Modified-Soya-Rats10oct05.htm

There seems to be a lot of scientific info in regards to GMO's being unsafe but the USDA doesn't seem too concerned. Go figure!

Caveat emptor!

mskitty38583
12-20-2007, 11:05 PM
the food and drug admin in the us doesnt care if it is safe for consmption. they ok drugs for the public just to pull them off the shelf after 5 yrs. because they are killing people. they tell you that splenda is a great sugar subistitutefor diabetics, and people with glocuos poblems. it is made from sugar so it taste like sugar. what they are not telling people is that, when you eat or drink certian quanities of these 'wonderful' products, is that this spefic product, is causing serious problems with peoples frontal lobes in the brain. it eats holes in the brain. just like a computer virius. carbnated beverages in aluminum cans...the carbonated gases in the soda, messes with the molecutor structor of the aluminum. when this happens it breaks the metal down and you injest it. they are thinking alheizmers is from this. the metal goes to the brain from the blood stream and it lodges there. the electrical currents in the brain are stopped at this metal,causing damage,and causing the electric current to 'bypass' this area of the brain.when this happns this part of the brain"dies". i dont care how many rats they test this crap on, they do this with no moral reprehension and they do it for the money. they are killing us off slowly. i went to the dr. today and they told me i was way past time for a tetnus shot. i ABSOLUTELY refuse to have this. they dont tell you that in these shots are full of heavy metals, and 'dead' virius' that there again, lodge in the brain causing damage to the frontal lobes. do i want a fu shot...not gonna happen, they are not going to intentionally infect me with a "dead" virius, that when it come into contact with live human tissue comes alive again. if i would have know what they put in my kids vaccanations, i would have told them to give them the "the other vaccanations" which are 100% natural dirivitaves from tropical plants.many peole dont know about these natural vaccanations, they keep them VERY quiet. so you do have a choice. you have to educate yourselves on everything our gov. says is ok..their not loking out for you ,their looking out for their own wallets. i just get a little ill when people TELL me what i have to do and i know its not the right thing especially for my family. sorry guys this is just something i feel real strongly about.

bigdog
12-20-2007, 11:16 PM
"We at Mindfully.org consider all genetic engineering—plant, animal, or pharmaceutical—unsafe"

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2005/ge-2005.htm

Interesting article! Check this one out too:

http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/2007/12/debate-about-dr-ermakovas-rat.html

One must always consider the source...

momoese
12-20-2007, 11:20 PM
True, but this study was only reported by them like many others have been. The real "source" is the study itself, not the messenger.

mskitty38583
12-20-2007, 11:35 PM
i am glad to see that i am not the only person here who has problems with the stuff the gov. is trying to shove down our throats. bigdog is there any requirments to joining the site? please let me know i have a few friends (myself) included who would be interested. thanks.

bigdog
12-21-2007, 05:31 PM
bigdog is there any requirments to joining the site? please let me know i have a few friends (myself) included who would be interested. thanks.

I'm not sure what site you're talking about?? I was just quoting a line from mindfully.org.

It's imperative that the studies being referenced are unbiased, peer-reviewed papers published in a scientific journal in order for them to have credibility. I did a Metasearch for the author using UT Libraries, and couldn't find any reference to this article in any journal or publication.

Personally, I'm glad they test on rats first. Better them than testing on humans! That's going to upset a few folks, I'm sure, but before you lash out at me, do you have any better suggestions? I'm an open-minded person.

mskitty38583
12-21-2007, 06:07 PM
the point i was trying to make is i dont care how many rats they test it on, im not gonna do it, use it, or eat it. and it is good that they test it,but if they dont want you to know the truth, your not gonna know till its tooooooo late. im sorry about the mix up with the quote. i went to the site and read up on it. boy oh boy.. makes you think dont it?

Lagniappe
12-24-2007, 12:14 AM
i know, i know.i just am totally against this type of engineering. i really believe it is wrong.my personal opinion.:eek: thats why im trying to get a garden patch together. that way i know where my food comes from and whats in it, the mennonites here in sparta refuse to do any of this, so i will start buying my meat there. i do not agree with cloneing , i do not agree with genetically engineering of food for anytype of consumption. i believe it is moraly wrong. i have serious issues with this type of science.



Sooo, are you planning to get rid of your HCM ? I know that many members here have no qualm with the accomplishments of our scientific community and would gladly take them off your hands .
I do believe in being environmentally conscious but a sustainable and realistic approach will involve these types of sciences . I'm sure that even when people first began to experiment with cross pollination it was viewed as the work of dark forces . If we had turned our backs on this mixing of genetic material we would have most likely seen detrimental crop failures on a global scale many times over the last 50 years or so . Or,at least , insufficient yields .
The plants that you place in your garden patch will ,more than likely, be mutants of one form or another and will certainly not contain the exact genetic code of thier wild predecessors.
Don't get me wrong , I don't advocate the bizzare (ie....personal genetic enhancements,pet fish with legs....),especially on the consumer level . I'm just pointing out the fact that without these studies we (humankind) could be denying betterment for ourselves .

klemmthamm
12-24-2007, 01:02 AM
Thank you Pete! :goteam:

CookieCows
12-24-2007, 01:38 AM
[quote=Lagniappe;25233]The plants that you place in your garden patch will ,more than likely, be mutants of one form or another and will certainly not contain the exact genetic code of thier wild predecessors.

I think you are right about this. When I buy my vegetable seed packets every year most of them are hybrid and isn't that the same with most rose bushes on the market? We raise most of the meat we eat and when we get good enough at gardening our goal is to be self sustaining with that too but our reason behind that is to know what the animals ate and that they lived a happy life while they were alive and we don't have to worry about recalled meat and vegetables. I guess I haven't thought too much about right or wrong when it comes to genetically altered seeds and plants as I believe science has come a long ways in benifiting mankind. I certainly don't agree with weird genetic tampering. As for cloning though... isn't a tissue cultured pup basically a cloned banana plant? I'm very ignorant with all this and just so happens I was just reading about what tissue culture was and how alot of banana plants are done this way.

klemmthamm
12-24-2007, 01:50 AM
[quote]

As for cloning though... isn't a tissue cultured pup basically a cloned banana plant? I'm very ignorant with all this and just so happens I was just reading about what tissue culture was and how alot of banana plants are done this way.

Yup you are right CC,... that is why we are wondering why anyone who is apparently against pretty much anything mildly scientific would support tissue culture

I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone on this site who advocates the genetic modification of life to create bizarre and possibly dangerous animals/plants/whatever, but the creation of hardy disease resistant plants is necessary to sustain human life at this point.

momoese
12-24-2007, 10:25 AM
but the creation of hardy disease resistant plants is necessary to sustain human life at this point.


Is there a study that proves this? I seem to do just fine with heirloom seeds.

Also let's be clear, there is a huge difference in GMO and Hybrid plants. Cross pollinating is going to happen in the wild, inserting an octopus gene in a Tomato would never happen naturally.

Lagniappe
12-24-2007, 11:30 AM
I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone on this site who advocates the genetic modification of life to create bizarre and possibly dangerous animals/plants/whatever,
That was the first part of that quote .

While cross pollination does happen in the wild it is the selective pollination and isolation of desired traits that makes the difference .
The only reason that cross pollination was even brought up was to illustrate the benefits of looking forward .

Be sure of your heirloom seed sources , monsanto has purchased the patents for many heirloom varieties .
We have had the same corn for many years ,saving seed each year , and our corn has slowly become something entirely different . It looks different , taste different ,.......this is probably due to cross pollination with gm plants that others (farmers and home gardeners) have planted locally. The plants are far more robust but the germination rate of our seed has dropped tremendously.

bencelest
12-24-2007, 03:40 PM
When I left my native country the population was 22 million , now it is 92 million. There were a lot of people were starving then due to pest and other calamities but because of these engineered stuff and discoveries by agriculture scientists to create new varieties specially the rice varieties in particular, the government and the people were able to feed the new generation. The discoveries of new plants and introducing new crops and even animals and new fishes in the country, the government were able to feed the new people.
So when I see on the TV the progress that has been made by the new discoveries and improvements, I smile to myself and thank the Lord .

bigdog
12-24-2007, 05:33 PM
Is there a study that proves this? I seem to do just fine with heirloom seeds.

Also let's be clear, there is a huge difference in GMO and Hybrid plants. Cross pollinating is going to happen in the wild, inserting an octopus gene in a Tomato would never happen naturally.

Remember Norman Borlaug? He basically started The Green Revolution by coming up with new varieties of wheat to try and solve the world's hunger problems. The population of the world is increasing exponentially every day, and so is the problem of feeding it. We have to continue to find new ways of growing and improving plants in order to meet the demands! Farming practices 60 years ago would not come close to producing the volumes of food that are produced today, and that can be attributed to science and innovation by people like Borlaug. Here's part of an excerpt from an interview with Borlaug recently:

Borlaug: Biotechnology will help these countries accomplish things that they could never do with conventional plant breeding. The technology is more precise and farming becomes less time consuming. The public needs to be better informed about the importance of biotechnology in food production so it won't be so critical.
...
While biotechnology holds much promise in food production, we cannot ignore conventional plant breeding methods since these methods continue to be important. In the last century, conventional breeding produced higher yields and will continue to do so in this century.
...
There is a report by scientists at University of California at Berkeley who analyzed foods, including some that humans have eaten since the dawn of agriculture. The report shows that there are natural foods that contain trace amounts of natural chemicals that are toxic or carcinogenic. These foods don't seem to harm us.
...
If you're a theoretical scientist, you can philosophize about this but I've been in the field for a long time and I believe genetically modified food crops will stop world hunger. I recognize the value of crops created by traditional plant breeding but I also see the viability of crops that carry an herbicide-resistant gene or whatever gene is incorporated by biotechnology.


http://www.actionbioscience.org/biotech/borlaug.html

These words coming from the man that gave us the wheat that we eat today, from conventional breeding. Of course, that was over 60 years ago, when genetic engineering was unheard of. There are plenty of examples of foods that have been bred by conventional means that have proven to be highly toxic and harmful to man:

1. Celery (USA, ~1985) - caused serious skin rash through psoralens + sunlight.
2. Squash (USA, 1982) - Cucurbitacin poisoning.
3. Zucchini (Australia, 1982) - Cucurbitacin poisoning (22 people hospitalized).
4. Potato (USA, 1967 cv. Lenape) - toxic alkaloids.

And lets not forget all of the organically-grown spinach that came in a bag with E. coli just recently. My point is that conventionally bred crops can have problems also. It isn't just the GMO crops that have potential problems associated with them. When Norman Borlaug himself is advocating the use of biotechnology to stop world hunger, maybe we should listen. Without the Green Revolution that he started, who knows where we would be today.

momoese
12-24-2007, 10:57 PM
Someone , I can't remember who without googling it once said that the human race is but a rash on the face of the earth and that it's constantly trying to rid us.

I agree with statement.

If we truly need GMO food to feed the population then I believe there are just too many people here.

And boy did I know that someday someone would bring up the spinach! I told my wife when it first happened, "you just wait, some GMO advocate or GMO company is going to use the fear card to scare people away from organic produce" You proved me right! Are you aware how it became tainted? From possibly negligent land owners leasing their land to beef farmers who also had pigs that may have contaminated the irrigation water system. That could have affected any crop, Organic or GMO.

The human race has survived on organic heirloom produce for how long, a 160,000 years or so, and now your going to bash it? Good luck with that!

You know, if GMO's had been properly tested for even just a couple hundred years or so with no long term side effects on "humans" I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it hasn't been and Monsanto and the others can't be trusted even if they were to "test" it. Good old common sense says that their main goal, like almost any other huge corp is the bottom line and nothing will stop them from trying to achieving that.

You can argue for them until your blue in the face but the fact is that no one knows if GMO products (man that sounds gross!) are safe in the long term for humans to consume and we won't know in our lifetime. Who knows what they are working on now, maybe a tomato that makes you want to buy a new automobile or a fancy new TV? Ok I'm being a little sarcastic but the point is that we really, really have no clue what that stuff will do to us long term and the government will always side with the ones who line their pockets, not you and me, the small change and small voice people with families to feed.

Disclaimer: some of the above was my opinion and not meant to hurt anyones feelings.

Merry Christmas and may the power of organic be with you! :2787:

klemmthamm
12-24-2007, 11:22 PM
I think both Frank and Mitchel's posts have very good info... no feelings hurt here :D... I try not to lean too far right or left with either organic or GMO... because personally I think both have good and bad traits. (playin' up a bit for GMO since there didn't seem to be much hardcore debating going on)

Good posts all around.

bigdog
12-24-2007, 11:47 PM
If we truly need GMO food to feed the population then I believe there are just too many people here.

I agree with that. There are way too many people on this earth, but that's another problem in itself.

And boy did I know that someday someone would bring up the spinach! I told my wife when it first happened, "you just wait, some GMO advocate or GMO company is going to use the fear card to scare people away from organic produce" You proved me right! Are you aware how it became tainted? From possibly negligent land owners leasing their land to beef farmers who also had pigs that may have contaminated the irrigation water system. That could have affected any crop, Organic or GMO.

I in no way even insinuated that I was trying to scare anybody away from organic produce. I'm all for it! But the rest of your statements prove my point: There is negligence everywhere, my friend. Everywhere.

The human race has survived on organic heirloom produce for how long, a 160,000 years or so, and now your going to bash it? Good luck with that!

Mitchell...please reread my post. I didn't bash organic heirloom produce in any way. I was merely pointing out, from real-world examples, that there can be problems with any crop.

You know, if GMO's had been properly tested for even just a couple hundred years or so with no long term side effects on "humans" I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it hasn't been and Monsanto and the others can't be trusted even if they were to "test" it. Good old common sense says that their main goal, like almost any other huge corp is the bottom line and nothing will stop them from trying to achieving that.

We don't have a couple hundred years. But you're right about the bottom line. Any company, large or 2 employees, keeps their eye on the bottom line. It wouldn't be a business if they didn't. Businesses main goal is to make a profit. Nothing new there.

You can argue for them until your blue in the face but the fact is that no one knows if GMO products (man that sounds gross!) are safe in the long term for humans to consume and we won't know in our lifetime. Who knows what they are working on now, maybe a tomato that makes you want to buy a new automobile or a fancy new TV? Ok I'm being a little sarcastic but the point is that we really, really have no clue what that stuff will do to us long term and the government will always side with the ones who line their pockets, not you and me, the small change and small voice people with families to feed.


Who's blue in the face? :2732:

Disclaimer: some of the above was my opinion and not meant to hurt anyones feelings.

No feelings hurt here. You do tend to get a bit personal on this subject, but that is because you're passionate about it, and that's fine. Passion sometimes tends to block other things out though, like logic and common sense. We have to look at the options for the future. And clear-headed people should be making those decisions. That's not to say that they always do, lol! I agree with Borlaug, it will take a balance of conventional breeding and GMO technology to keep up with world hunger.

momoese
12-25-2007, 12:55 AM
Passion sometimes tends to block other things out though, like logic and common sense.

Common sense says that we have survived on heirloom organics forever (exaggeration, almost forever) and that GMO's are untested and quite possibly unsafe. Common sense also says that the GMO manufacturers are nothing more than greedy corporations.

That's not some "passionate speak", it's just "clear headed" common sense!

So how do you feel about organic farmers crops being polluted with GMO contamination and then being sued for growing "patented crops"?

bigdog
12-25-2007, 05:12 PM
Common sense says that we have survived on heirloom organics forever (exaggeration, almost forever) and that GMO's are untested and quite possibly unsafe. Common sense also says that the GMO manufacturers are nothing more than greedy corporations.

That's not some "passionate speak", it's just "clear headed" common sense!

So how do you feel about organic farmers crops being polluted with GMO contamination and then being sued for growing "patented crops"?

Sure, GMO's are possibly unsafe, but haven't proved to be yet. The next head of broccoli, bred by conventional means, that I buy could be unsafe too. I think some folks actually WANT them to be unsafe, but I can't really for the life of me figure that one out. Here's a statistic: over 46 trillion transgenic plants have been grown for food or feed in North America since 1994, and no problems have been reported.

I bet you can't name one large corporation, GMO or otherwise, that you don't see as greedy, am I right? They are all in it for the money, of course!! Otherwise they wouldn't exist at all. It's called Capitalism. Their main goal is to make as much profit as they can. It's when they cut corners and do illegal things to get that profit that is despicable, and should be punished accordingly. I'm well aware that some large corporations will still try to do this, but it isn't as easy as it once was, especially with SOX 2002. But...does this make GMO's the bad guy just because of some corporation's potential wrong-doings, or is the corporation the bad guy? You can insert ANY industry into this conversation, and it would be the same. The science, if applied properly, is good.

Obviously, the last scenario you mentioned is absurd. That is, it is absurd for the farmers to get sued because of GMO cross-pollination. If they are so concerned about their genes escaping, they need to ensure that they don't, and not try to punish some innocent farmer.

Merry Christmas!

momoese
12-26-2007, 02:13 PM
While I think it's true that corporations are only concerned about the bottom line, some of them are better for the environment than others, and I don't view any GMO producing corps in that light.

I think it's really irresponsible to release anything that's untested which is exactly what they have done. As a matter of fact I think it's criminal and they should be prosecuted. They have created a mess that can't be reversed. Some people are allergic to peanuts for example, and with the known cross pollination it's just a matter of time before the gene finds it way into something it's not supposed to be in. Then you have weeds that can be cross pollinated by herbicide resistant genes making super weeds that will so invasive we may not have a way to stop them. GMO's are not tested! They should not be sold to the public and especially not to an unsuspecting and deliberately uninformed public!

Now these dip sh$ts want to let loose bio insects. Holy crap! What do they think is going to happen to the fish and birds etc that eat them and to their predators? What's that you say, you don't know? Exactly, no one does and that's why none of this GMO crap should be sold or produced in way that it can't be controlled.

CookieCows
12-26-2007, 03:28 PM
Speaking of herbicide resistant, has anyone tried to get kudzu off their property? It's not on ours yet but I have seen it as close as 10 miles away. We used to live in Dahlonega, Ga and it was beautiful but killed everything in it's path. The county/state has great difficulty eradicating it.

We have so many areas on our property that we need something fast growing and drought resistant for erosion and have actually mulled over using kudzu but quickly come back to our senses. It's beautiful and heavenly smelling when in bloom but in my opinion a dangerous vine.

Don't mean to interrupt your subject though.. don't think this is anything genetically altered, just a strong, deep rooted vine.

Deb

Lagniappe
12-26-2007, 03:35 PM
I've heard Kudzu referred to as "The scourge of the south " . There are a few small businesses whos focus is the manufacturing of Kudzu products . They produce a broad spectrum of products from jams to textiles and even animal feed and wine .
From what I understand ,it is nearly impossible to control .

mskitty38583
12-26-2007, 04:53 PM
cookiecow ----get a goat. they will eat the @#$% out of kudzu. we had friends in sandersville ga whose land was over run with that 'lovely' stuff. they got a goat and turned it loose on the property and it tore the mess out of it. the goat eats it to the roots, when it starts to come back up the goats take care of it. after about 2 yrs. of the goats eating it, it finally died out. in ga. they do make kudzu jelly(its gross) and they use the vines for making wreaths. and all of this started when they brought it fom overseas( china or japan) as a fast growing ground cover. it has killed muskadine vines, and has even choked out of the natural cedars that grow in ga and in tn. it is a bane to the existance of natural native plants. if you dig it up, ALL the roots have to be dug up and burned.

Tropicallvr
12-26-2007, 05:05 PM
The thing that makes most people wary of GMO products brought to us by companies that are focused on the bottom line is just that, they are focused on the bottom line and it would take years of testing to learn the true impacts of these products. These years of testing would cost these companies alot of money. Pharmaceutical companies are guilty of this as well; pushing new medicines onto the market before they are fully tested, or self tested. Then later having these drugs pulled from the market, and mass lawsuits resulting from side effects from the drugs or death.
Here's where the mix of the two(GMO and Pharmaceutical) come in.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/36123-pharmaceutical-gmo-crops-contaminating-food.html

mskitty38583
12-26-2007, 05:13 PM
that is the point i was trying to make. thank you

momoese
12-26-2007, 05:54 PM
Here's where the mix of the two(GMO and Pharmaceutical) come in.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/36123-pharmaceutical-gmo-crops-contaminating-food.html

Wow, that is really upsetting. Honestly I feel a little sick to my stomach reading that.

CookieCows
12-26-2007, 06:51 PM
There's alot of reading on that website but I do want to go back and expand onto other links to learn more of what they have to say. I have mixed feelings over it and I don't like to read what seem like dramatic scare tactics. We do use chemical pesticide on our garden and even with that the Japanese Beetle still win the battle at times. We're going to try out aquaponics this growing season for salad and herb crops so we can at least stay away from chemicals on that.

The thing that makes most people wary of GMO products brought to us by companies that are focused on the bottom line is just that, they are focused on the bottom line and it would take years of testing to learn the true impacts of these products. These years of testing would cost these companies alot of money. Pharmaceutical companies are guilty of this as well; pushing new medicines onto the market before they are fully tested, or self tested. Then later having these drugs pulled from the market, and mass lawsuits resulting from side effects from the drugs or death.

Isn't it a 20yr. test trial before FDA will approve a drug safe? When they release drugs before that don't they require a form to be signed to release the company from lawsuits? I took a drug like that once and had to sign a form stating that I understood that it had not been passed by the FDA yet. Sometimes when you have a disease that has no cure, people would like to have the option to try unproven drugs. I also think that it's possible that a person who has strong feelings against GMO crops being grown to produce drugs might change their opinion if they were forced to walk in the shoes of someone waiting for a cure.

momoese
12-26-2007, 09:38 PM
I also think that it's possible that a person who has strong feelings against GMO crops being grown to produce drugs might change their opinion if they were forced to walk in the shoes of someone waiting for a cure.

From what I read they are just trying to make more money as usual by finding a cheaper way to produce already produced drugs. They are not using the plants to find any cures. If that's what you're concerned about you should think about helping to protect natural rain forests where the possible cures may actually be located.

CookieCows
12-26-2007, 09:54 PM
:ha: Touche'

CookieCows
12-26-2007, 10:00 PM
To clarify though I wasn't actually talking about finding "cures".. I was thinking about the maintenance drugs that people have to take to help them to endure day to day.

bigdog
12-26-2007, 10:07 PM
I'm by no means an expert on any of this, just an interested observer and student. What I do know is that the great fears that people have about GMO's, and with good reason, have yet to be realized. A link within that last link was suggesting that the cross-contamination COULD happen, and that it is theoretically possible for you to end up eating drug-laced corn flakes. In reality, none of those things have happened.

I share many of the same concerns about GMO's that everybody else does. The very possibility of eating Paxil in my corn flakes (although I don't eat Corn Flakes) is disconcerting to say the least. :2750: There is a lot of work to be done and a long ways to go for the government to institute some strict regulations that will ensure the safety of the food supply.

All that said, I think GMO's have great possibilities. Just because there could be some danger associated with some science shouldn't mean that completely abandon the idea. It means that we need to find ways of making it less dangerous. The science itself is not the bad guy here.

harveyc
12-27-2007, 02:44 AM
I have a relatively small farm but have farmed GMO corn and alfalfa and believe they are safe, but I have no interest in growing a banana that glows in the dark! Pesticides used on my GMO crops are less toxic and more effective than the non-GMO versions I've grown. I'm more concerned about contamination in subtle things like multi-vitamins, heavy metals in fish, etc.

Gabe15
12-27-2007, 02:55 AM
This may have been mentioned (I admit I havenʻt read thru every post in this thread), but a lot of GMO work is not to create trees that grow bacon, corn that can sing opera, or bananas that glow in the dark. Much work is done with moving genes around a lot easier that are already present in congenors (members of the same group). Say you found the cold hardy gene of Musa basjoo and introduced it into ʻSabaʻ, I donʻt think too many of us would have a problem with that. Yes, there are a lot of questionable things that have been done, will be done and could be done, but its not all crazy freak plants everywhere, some of it is actually pretty mundane.

This point has been said before, and its my opinion too, its not the science where the problems lie, its how the science is used....politics I guess you could call it.

momoese
12-27-2007, 10:42 AM
Just to be clear I don't have a problem with the science behind it. I have a problem with the lack of control, the lack of responsibility, and the lack of respect that the GMO corps and our government has shown us.

If it's a two headed snake and chopping off the corporate or government head doesn't kill it then the science head must be chopped off to kill the serpent. Seeing how neither is going to happen and the world is already polluted with something that shouldn't be here in the first place I'd say we screwed the pooch. I only hope that someone at some point is held accountable.

The only possible fix is for the consumer to be warned and become outraged and not buy this crap, but it's kinda hard to do when the government won't force labeling on an untested product because someone is getting their palms greased by these GMO corporations.

CookieCows
12-27-2007, 11:10 AM
I think paxil in your cornflakes is right up there with the glowing banana and so far we DON'T have paxil in our cornflakes but we do have more disease and pest resistant crops. I have to throw my hat in with science. If they can use corn or wheat to help pharmaceutical companies make better drugs ... that's not the same as eating your antidepressant with milk instead of swallowing the pill. We try to be as organic as we can on our little spot of the world and hope we can filter through what we read and hear to determine what "we" consider might be articles that are factual and of real concern and what is a dramatic, "what if".

I hope no one has taken offense to anything I've said. It's interesting to have conversations of different views. We have so much to learn from one another and I for one want to learn more on how I can get my darn garden to do better without using pesticides as we've had lousy luck up to this point. My husband and I gave up and started spraying the heck out of our vegetable garden and it has still been touch and go.

I'm a wife, mom and Nana and the kitchen and garden is more of my comfort zone anyway. :golfingbanana:
Deb

CookieCows
12-27-2007, 11:13 AM
I agree with the labeling issue Momese .. that is upsetting to me

Tropicallvr
12-27-2007, 11:27 AM
All that said, I think GMO's have great possibilities. Just because there could be some danger associated with some science shouldn't mean that completely abandon the idea. It means that we need to find ways of making it less dangerous. The science itself is not the bad guy here.

I totally agree.

Cookie Cows- From the little I've read on the web it's seems it takes about 3.5 years of testing before it can pass FDA requirements and be released to the public, but as it is being sold it must also under go perodic tests at the same time by the company/FDA. So on a peice of paper it reads something like the average amount of years spent testing Phama drugs is 10-12 years.
I don't see that link as part of a scare tactic, its scary, but if that's what's happing that's what's happening.

mskitty38583
12-27-2007, 11:45 AM
disclamer: this is what i believe, it is not ment to upset, insult or wound anyones pride, ego, or ideas.

science is good thing. intentions are what is bad. and the human race does not always take into considerations the cause and effect of the things that they do.(present tense , past tense, or future tense) i believe, ok if you want it here and you want to use it, hey thats kool,LABEL IT. i want the choice to decide if i want to use if. every human on this planet has a choice of free will and i do NOT agree with the fact that i have not been given this choice. these laws and legislation about this mess is not suppossed to be left up to small group to decide what i have to use. this should be put before every one in every country and let the people decide. and if they have a problem with their"mutations" getting into other peoples property, let them grow their stuff in enclosed places where it cant infect other peoples land. why are they sueing the little man, its the little man who should be sueing him. it has contaminated his land, he didnt ask it to be there. i think that is wrong for this company to do this. if there are farmers who want to grow this sort of stuff..kudos to you. however, MY OPINION most people wont want this growing in their fields, or tainting their land,water,plants.
about 15 yrs ago they put me on synthitic peneicillin( it was genetically engineered). i had taken everytype of antibiotic there was( it was in its natural form in those days) due to ear infections,sininus infections..etc. when they gave me this antibiotic i became seriously ill. i almost died. i was in the hospital hooked up to every machine there was. when asked about the meds i was on i told them about the antibiotic. they did research on the antibiotic i took and found it was enginered genetically. THIS CRAP CAME WITHIN 24 HOURS of my mother putting flowers on my grave and my kids not having a mother. the naturally grown( un altered) antibiotic i had used all my life. so if you wonder why i get so angry( or passionate) about this that is why. i am no longer able to take ANY type of antibiotic. there is one that i have found that hasnt killed me yet and that is echinachia and i have to be carefull about that. that is why the purple cone flower that i grow i am very protective over. the plants that these seeds came from, my great grandma planted in mi. when she first married and it was a weird plant my great granpa dug up out the woods about 65-70 yrs ago.

CookieCows
12-27-2007, 11:49 AM
Tropicallvr yeah that is scary. I'm assuming you got this info. off of fda.gov ... It was 30years ago that I took the unapproved but released to the public drug that I had to sign a waiver for. So many guidlines have gotten so lax these days.

inkcube
01-02-2008, 12:02 PM
something to keep in mind about GMO's, there are many products made with GMO organisms that are not labeled. around 60-65% of soy beans grown in the US are GMO plus many by products of soy beans are made with GMO organisms; fats, oils, fat-based coatings, lecithin, and numerous other emulsifiers made from modified fatty acids emulisifirs derived from soy that is used in many chocolates, ice creams, and desserts.

some other additives produced from GMO organisms; citric acid,vitamin B2 (riboflavin coloring), vitamin C (ascorbic acid), the sweetener, aspartame (nutrasweet), Beta-carotene coloring,the thickening agent, xanthan. the organisms make the process of making these additives safer and easier than previous chemical processes.

some other additives commonly found in food made with GMO organisms;
- Gucose syrup: Used in sweets, baked goods, and soft drinks
- Dextrose (glucose): Sold pure or used in sweets and energy foods
- Fructose: Sweetener for diabetics
- Dextrin: Filler and thickener in sweets, convenience products; carrier substance for flavors and vitamins
- Maltose (maltitol): Sweetener in sugar-free or low-sugar products

some of the enzymes used to make these additives are economically impossible to produce without biotechnological methods. certain procedures use "immobilised" enzymes, which are bound to a reaction surface. rather than mixing freely, they remain fixed to a surface and are not present in the final product. this give a much purer additive.

these products are in every day food items; ice cream, diet sodas, vitamins/OTC meds, chocolate, etc.

also my current research with plantains is utilizing GMO plants, i just planted 100 plants from Honduras that are GMO engineered for black sigatoka resistance - if the work done with plantains succeeds then the next step will be to develop a GMO cavendish. a lot of similar work has been done with papayas and ringspot virus - transgenic papayas now cover about one thousand hectares, or three quarters of the total Hawaiian papaya crop.

not all GMOS have bad side effects.

mskitty38583
01-02-2008, 07:00 PM
nice to see you back inkcube.hope you had a happy holiday season

inkcube
01-02-2008, 07:19 PM
thanks! went home to Costa Rica for a while.

mskitty38583
01-02-2008, 07:45 PM
was it warm down there? its 11 to 14 * f here! we missed your insights and advise. glad your back.

Lagniappe
01-09-2008, 02:39 PM
No green eggs yet but they have the ham :
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/01/09/glowing-pig.html