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51st state
12-10-2007, 07:54 PM
I know this info is around on the site but would anyone care to post a step-by-step guide to musa germination (with photos) using the heat mat, and ziplok baggie method. Erlend maybe? :coldbanana:

and am I right when I remember that Ensete are norally germinated at a fairly steady 30 C? rather than the fluctuating temps required for Musa?



http://api.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=IENGLAND55&format=XML

Tropicallvr
12-13-2007, 12:26 PM
I wish I would have taken some photos.
There really needs to be some kind of guide at the top of this page(that stays there) telling the basics to germinating musa, fluctuation, soil, ect.
You are correct about Ensete germination, although a little temp variation seems needed for the Thai E.superbum, and E.perrieri needs a seed bed, and needs a dry/then wet (neglected) to sprout.
The last Ensete I germinated was E.superbum India on top of the water heater for the house.

CookieCows
01-31-2008, 11:07 AM
When soaking your seeds in warm water for a couple days ... are you setting up an fish aquarium heater or something in shallow water? Probably not that..... lol.... I haven't been able to figure out what type of container would be used and how the water is kept at a constant warm temp. Carefully set pie pan or something on heat mat?

Deb

tropical-pete
01-31-2008, 12:49 PM
Tropicallvr - I agree. At the top of this page, a detailed guide should be put on how to germinate both Musa & Ensete seeds, including specific requirement for individual species (for example, that Ensete 'Thai Superbum' requires a little temp. fluctuation, just as you stated). I myself am new to all of this, and I'd love to learn how to germinate my nana seeds successfully. I think it would be a great idea to post a detailed guide as people will only need to ask for specific information then, as a guide for sowing the seed will already be present. Thanks, take care

Pete

Richard
01-31-2008, 01:09 PM
The "Bananas Wiki" might be a better location ...

jason
01-31-2008, 01:34 PM
I know this info is around on the site but would anyone care to post a step-by-step guide to musa germination (with photos) using the heat mat, and ziplok baggie method. Erlend maybe? :coldbanana:

and am I right when I remember that Ensete are norally germinated at a fairly steady 30 C? rather than the fluctuating temps required for Musa?



Weather Underground (http://api.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=IENGLAND55&format=XML)

wich 30c is 86 degrees for those of us in the usa!

tropical-pete
02-17-2008, 01:20 PM
erm....well is anyone going to post a guide for general Musa seed germination? I have lots of seed awaiting sowing, but I just need to know how! What is the general reccomended planting medium, temps, light requirements etc. and that sort of stuff?

Thanks, take care

Pete

Tropicallvr
02-18-2008, 02:25 PM
1. Get a soil that is bacteria free(cook in oven to sterilize) Or buy seed starting mix. Coco peat & perlite mixed togher is a good medium for sprouting. Get zip lock baggies to place the seeds in, the bigger the bag the better, I have cooked seeds in too small of a bag. Half gallon or gallon size I think is best.
2. Get a heat mat with an appliance timer(bought seperatly), and set up in a cooler room(60F) in your house. Put some sort of tray(seedling flat) on heat mat, so baggies aren't directly on the mat.
3.Soak seeds for about 24-48(or more) hours changing the water daily. Some seeds have alot of banana pulp and might need to be scrubbed a few times as they soak. After they are done soaking, give them a scrub and rinse with either diluted hydrogen peroxide, or a 10% bleach solution. Some bleach clings to seeds and makes them feel slimey, and if this is the case give them a extra dish soap wash to get the bleach off.
4. Hydrate your soil medium, just to the point of moist, but not dripping moist. I ussaly run a drip into the baggy as I stir it as the water drips in. Not too wet not too dry. Then sprinkle the seeds on the surface, and sprinkle a little soil on them, just so they are barley covered.
5. Set you timer for being on from anywhere from 5 hours on to 12 hours on. It's up to you I've had results with short and long, but now I do around 7-8 hours on.
6. Check regularly by hand or with an outdoor thermometer the soil to make sure it isn't getting too hot, and raise your tray off the heat mat if it is. I have lost alot of seeds from frying them. If your soil is drying out then it's probably too hot.
6. No need for a light to germinate them, they will do it in pitch black, but you'll need to check them almost every day, because if you miss a seedling that has sprouted and they stretch too much for light then they use all their reserves, and don't have enough energy to produce the first leaf, then they bend over and die. Be careful not to expose them to full sunshine too quickly either if they have been in a dark place.
Some species are fine to dig up out of the baggies and seperate from the soil before it has it's first leaf, and some are really touchy and you must leave them in the baggy till they have a leaf.
when they are ready just put new potted seedling in a warm well lit place(morning sun), or artificial light, and let it go to town, fetilizing lightly after 3 or so leaf leafs have been put out.
LMK if I missed anything that your wondering about. I HOPE YOU GET SOME SPROUTS!

bigdog
02-18-2008, 09:57 PM
Kyle, that was a fantastic how-to tutorial! The only thing that I would add is that some may want to use plastic storage boxes with a tight-fitting lid instead of the baggies. It seems to me that sometimes there isn't enough air in the bags when the seedlings germinate, or sometimes they germinate right up against the bag and get too wet. Both work fine if you leave enough air. In any event, you do want to start checking daily after 2-3 weeks for germination.

When using a box, and transplanting a seedling from the box to a pot (try to use a sterile medium when they are this young to prevent fungal attacks!), I use my finger to gently push down into the medium with one finger about 1/2 inch from the seedling. Hook your finger underneath the seedling as deep as you can. Then grab the seedling with your other hand, and lift it up with the finger that is in the medium. Do not pull it up by your other hand, or you may risk damaging the roots! You might damage a root or two anyway, but I've not lost one yet doing it this way. The rule of thumb is to be gentle! Seedlings are very fragile, and won't easily recover from too many roots being damaged.

I have given up on using flats and trying to germinate in the greenhouse. Invariably, fungus gnats become a problem quickly. If you do want to germinate in the greenhouse (or outside), make sure that the cover of the box has holes in the top of it! Either that or set it where the sun won't hit it. I have lost one seedling in the greenhouse from cooking it the day after it germinated, on a cool, sunny winter day, where the temperature under the humidity dome must have been into the 100s Fahrenheit.

I have not had any luck with non-sterile medium, although there was a study that had better germination with it. I can't stress enough how important it is to start out with a sterile mix, sterile box (or bag), and to sterilize the seeds (like Kyle said) before sowing. If it isn't a sterile medium, you don't know if there are any pathogens in there just waiting to attack your seeds/seedlings. Especially if it is a rare seed or seedling, you want to give it the best chance possible. I'm sure some have had great success just throwing some seeds in a pot of old soil, LOL, but I'll bet it was a pretty common seed like Musa velutina or such.

Tropicallvr
02-18-2008, 11:43 PM
Yes, the finger hook method! Were getting really down to the details here, I almost forgot about that.
Good point about having enough air in the baggies, that's another reason why the large baggies work better than the small ones.

bikoro child
02-19-2008, 08:57 AM
thanks for all these explanations here are 3 pics to show you how I do
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8233 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8234)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8234 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8232)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=8235 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8233)

mrbungalow
02-19-2008, 09:37 AM
I will come back to this soon, I will try to put in a little effort in presenting my technique.

Cheers
Erlend

bigdog
02-19-2008, 11:38 PM
I will come back to this soon, I will try to put in a little effort in presenting my technique.

Cheers
Erlend

Yes, you had a great tutorial in another thread, Erlend, and it would be great if you could post it again here.

tropical-pete
02-23-2008, 02:08 AM
Thanks very much for posting there guides guys - I really appreciate it, and I'm sure everyone else will. I know have a good idea on how to sow my Musa seeds, so I'll get them going right away :)

Thanks, take care

Pete

mrbungalow
02-26-2008, 11:03 AM
Here's a little video I worked on this weekend. Hope you'll like it, and that it could come in useful!

Musa germination guide (http://www.youtube.com/v/8bU6wley2HM&rel=1)

the flying dutchman
02-26-2008, 12:51 PM
Thats awesome, thank you Erlend. I made this a sticky thread because
there is so much valuable information in it.

Ron

tropical-pete
02-26-2008, 12:56 PM
Thanks Ron :2200:

I have a bunch of banana seeds ready to plant, but I was reluctant to plant them. The amount of different ways of germinating them out there are so numerous, I simply couldn't decide which would give me the best change of germination. I was worried that my seeds wouldn't germinate, and then (even though Musa seeds are one of the hardest to germinate) I would lose all confidence in my germination skills and never plant another seed again! However, I now have a few different ways to pick from, and I know that all of them should yield good results.

Thanks so much! Take care

Pete

Tropicallvr
02-26-2008, 02:13 PM
very cool video Erland! Nice sound track!
One thing that I forgot to mention is that if you try with the plastic "tupper ware" storage boxes instead of the baggies, make sure you get ones with very tight fitting lids, fungas gnats wiped out my seeds because the lids weren't tight fitting.

51st state
02-27-2008, 07:41 AM
Excel Erlend. Sums it all up really

Loving the soundtrack :2223:

mrbungalow
02-27-2008, 07:56 AM
very cool video Erland! Nice sound track!
One thing that I forgot to mention is that if you try with the plastic "tupper ware" storage boxes instead of the baggies, make sure you get ones with very tight fitting lids, fungas gnats wiped out my seeds because the lids weren't tight fitting.

Good point Kyle: I realized I forgot to address the issue of contamination in the video!! I use a potting soil that is supposed to be guaranteed disease/ pest free, so it hasn't been that much of an issue for me. But sometimes the seeds themselves carry critters or fungus spores.

Erlend

SteveW
02-27-2008, 03:29 PM
Thanks for posting the video Erlend,I'm expecting some itinerans'india form' and a few others any day now so will follow your instructions to the letter.
In the past I've only ever soaked seed for a couple of days,I never would've thought to soak them for as long as a fortnight.Hopefully I'll have better success now.

jpfloors
02-28-2008, 12:52 AM
Tried clicking on the link and nothing would come up. I searched for it (several different ways). So if anyone else gets that problem just search for "Germinating banana seeds," the title of the video.

jpfloors
02-28-2008, 01:12 AM
Thanks for the awsome video Erlend! Definately learned a lot!

MediaHound
02-29-2008, 03:06 AM
Here's a little video I worked on this weekend. Hope you'll like it, and that it could come in useful!

Musa germination guide (http://www.youtube.com/v/8bU6wley2HM&rel=1)

Here it is in the page, I used "YT" tags to embed it.
Thank you very much for creating this, I sent you a message on YouTube as well.

8bU6wley2HM


Also, Erland, perhaps you can reupload this video as it was removed:
http://www.bananas.org/f9/little-tribute-people-here-1575.html

Thanks again! You did a wonderful job producing the video and thank you for the plug of Bananas.org in it. I've subscribed to your YT videos, btw.

:discocrazed:

mrbungalow
02-29-2008, 05:53 AM
Thanks for the praise Jarred!

Youtube can be risky business!

Concerning the other video; I did get some complaints, so not wanting any trouble I removed it. Tribute or not, people who don't want to appear on youtube have the right not to! :-)
So to me, about that video beeing removed is no big deal, as long everyone is happy!

I do enjoy making videos though, so pretty soon there will be more! But I will be prepared to ask people beforehand about any pictures etc.

Cheers
Erlend

sandy0225
02-29-2008, 06:09 PM
I've been sterilizing my seeds this year with a 1t/1gal physan 20/water ratio. So far everythings been coming up really good and I've only lost ONE seedling to damping off. And I know I've got thousands up right now.
I've never had such a good success rate.
I also sterilize my flats/containers/domes with a quick dip of 1T Physan 20/1gallon of water.

CookieCows
02-29-2008, 08:28 PM
I was reading about the physan20 and I can't use it because of the toxicity. My questions is.... was there something that you tried in the past that definitly did not work? Hoping to avoid pitfalls!

Deb

Mark Hall
03-02-2008, 10:47 AM
Erland would you mind if I posted your video on HTUK please ?

There are always questions being asked on how to germinate banana seeds
and your vid is the best I have seen at explaining it so that newcommers can understand it.


Mark

prettylady7245
03-02-2008, 11:47 AM
Erland thanks for the video...kewl..
I get a little quicker germination when I take my rotary dremel and grind the seed just to the edge of the inside and I use this on all my hard shelled seed then i use a peroxide solution to soak all my seed...1 oz of peroxide to 1 pint of water... I have had great success and good germination doing this..
Thanks again for the video...great job...
Peggy

mrbungalow
03-02-2008, 04:17 PM
Erland would you mind if I posted your video on HTUK please ?

There are always questions being asked on how to germinate banana seeds
and your vid is the best I have seen at explaining it so that newcommers can understand it.


Mark

I'd feel nothing but honored! :-)

Erlend

Tropicallvr
03-15-2008, 01:26 PM
Erland thanks for the video...kewl..
I get a little quicker germination when I take my rotary dremel and grind the seed just to the edge of the inside and I use this on all my hard shelled seed then i use a peroxide solution to soak all my seed...1 oz of peroxide to 1 pint of water... I have had great success and good germination doing this..
Thanks again for the video...great job...
Peggy

I used to think that scarifying was a good method, and it may work for some thick shelled Ensete species, but it also has lead to rot in many of my attempts.
If you take a look at some of the close up pictures Gabe has posted of Musa seeds cross cut, it shows how the embroyos are positioned right at the opening of the seed already. The opening is just a thin membrane that from the outside looks like a belly button on the seed.

donny4793
04-08-2008, 11:42 AM
Ok maybe this is a dumb question so forgive me before hand. This is my first time trying to germinate banana seeds and in general I have followed most of the great suggestions in this forum. But I don't understand why you would want to transplant the seedlings so soon after germinnation? Wouldn't it work to use some sort of biodegradeable container to put your sterile starter in? Then a person could just put the container in a larger pot, when the time comes? It would seem to me that a person would not damage the seedlings roots so much. Any thoughts?

jpfloors
04-08-2008, 12:29 PM
Ok maybe this is a dumb question so forgive me before hand. This is my first time trying to germinate banana seeds and in general I have followed most of the great suggestions in this forum. But I don't understand why you would want to transplant the seedlings so soon after germinnation? Wouldn't it work to use some sort of biodegradeable container to put your sterile starter in? Then a person could just put the container in a larger pot, when the time comes? It would seem to me that a person would not damage the seedlings roots so much. Any thoughts?

Hi Donny,

The issue with that is the peat pots arn't sterile... and when you enclose them inside an apparatus in the dark with heat, they're going to grow fungus like CRAZY and that could take over your seeds... plus you wouldn't want more than one seed in one of those pots to germinate in if you're planning to just take that and directly plant it with those pots. I use small 9 oz. plastic cups and plant between 5-20 seeds in each, and the replant them into the peat pots and into a ziplock once they germinate and from there put outside in the shade (I live in zone 10 so it's in the 80's here now). Hope this helps.

Josh

sandy0225
04-09-2008, 08:19 AM
it doesn't seem to hurt them any to transplant them right away. They act like they don't know they've been moved if you do it carefully.

Caloosamusa
04-10-2008, 07:06 AM
Thank you mrbungalow for your thread,

Some of us could not view your film, but the comments and informationals it stirred up were extremely helpful. I hail from a diease pressure area and found your information of great help.

Thank you for your thread and everyone for their additions.

zone 10 Fla (FL):jalapenonaner:

Chironex
04-19-2008, 05:46 PM
Does anyone ascribe to the smoke treatment advertised on ebay for increasing musa germination rates and decreasing time?

jpfloors
04-19-2008, 05:57 PM
Does anyone ascribe to the smoke treatment advertised on ebay for increasing musa germination rates and decreasing time?

What exactly are they saying to do?

Chironex
04-19-2008, 07:48 PM
Here is the link to the page on eBay. It sounds interesting, so I am thinking of trying it.

Propagation Smoke Treatment Essential 4 Some Oz Natives - eBay (item 360030459662 end time May-05-08 03:09:09 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Propagation-Smoke-Treatment-Essential-4-Some-Oz-Natives_W0QQitemZ360030459662QQihZ023QQcategoryZ43554QQrdZ1QQssP ageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247)

Would like to know what you think of this. Anyone ever try it?

:2756:

jpfloors
04-19-2008, 08:28 PM
I would say that'd be a very bad idea. This is just a general propagation method for seeds that REQUIRE to be fired to germinate... for example pine tree; the pine cone must be burnt to release the seeds. Notice that this method is only advertised for Australian native plant seeds that require this method. Bananas do not require this (unless there's a special seed that does, but that'd probably only one type of species or variety).

Tropicallvr
04-19-2008, 08:42 PM
It might work for some of the savanah African Ensete species. Just a thought, some of them have some weird germinateing requirements, like the one that only sprouts out of ant hills after being carried to the colony.

jellyfish_sky
04-19-2008, 09:39 PM
Hm... this is weird though.. I never heard of smoked vermiculite that can be sprinkled on top... I don't think just sprinkling the vermiculite will do. I use Smoke primer, which produces a solution where you soak seeds... I would tend to think that more smoke goes into the seed. Anybody tried that? On any kinds of seeds?

Chironex
04-20-2008, 09:38 AM
I like the thought of the smoke primer that u use to soak the seeds. Where do you find it and what is the name of the product? Perhaps you could post a link to it....

I am all for something that improves germination and reduces the waiting time.

Chironex
04-20-2008, 10:04 AM
I did a little Googling about this and found this link that appears to be what all the other links are selling:

Accessories for Growing Proteas (http://finebushpeople.co.za/cgi-bin/farmshop.pl?TP=accessorystore.htm&ID=!ID!)

Some of the links specifically mentioned for Musa germination. I am thinking of trying it to see if there is a marked difference. Will post my results if I do.

Chironex
06-01-2008, 09:51 AM
Just a follow-up note regarding the smoke treatment. I found this on seedman.com and wanted everyone to see it and comment:
Jim Johnson, Seedman is now the North America Distributor for the CAPE "Instant Smoke Plus" Seed Primer that we use in our own greenhouses. We find we receive significantly better germination results when we use this primer on Musa, palms, tropical, wildflower and other types of seeds. (underlining added) find it here: Cape Seed Germination Primer (http://www.seedman.com/cape.htm)
I am also experimenting with GA3 - did a 5 day soak in 250 ppm GA3 solution on Balbisiana and Darjeeling. Planted them 2 days ago and will let you know how they fare. I did not nick the seeds, but may try this too in my next batch to see if it makes any difference.

mrbungalow
06-11-2008, 03:55 AM
I have tried smoke-disks, GA3, and various raindances without much luck.

marksbananas
07-18-2008, 02:22 AM
1. Get a soil that is bacteria free(cook in oven to sterilize) Or buy seed starting mix. Coco peat & perlite mixed togher is a good medium for sprouting. Get zip lock baggies to place the seeds in, the bigger the bag the better, I have cooked seeds in too small of a bag. Half gallon or gallon size I think is best.
2. Get a heat mat with an appliance timer(bought seperatly), and set up in a cooler room(60F) in your house. Put some sort of tray(seedling flat) on heat mat, so baggies aren't directly on the mat.
3.Soak seeds for about 24-48(or more) hours changing the water daily. Some seeds have alot of banana pulp and might need to be scrubbed a few times as they soak. After they are done soaking, give them a scrub and rinse with either diluted hydrogen peroxide, or a 10% bleach solution. Some bleach clings to seeds and makes them feel slimey, and if this is the case give them a extra dish soap wash to get the bleach off.
4. Hydrate your soil medium, just to the point of moist, but not dripping moist. I ussaly run a drip into the baggy as I stir it as the water drips in. Not too wet not too dry. Then sprinkle the seeds on the surface, and sprinkle a little soil on them, just so they are barley covered.
5. Set you timer for being on from anywhere from 5 hours on to 12 hours on. It's up to you I've had results with short and long, but now I do around 7-8 hours on.
6. Check regularly by hand or with an outdoor thermometer the soil to make sure it isn't getting too hot, and raise your tray off the heat mat if it is. I have lost alot of seeds from frying them. If your soil is drying out then it's probably too hot.
6. No need for a light to germinate them, they will do it in pitch black, but you'll need to check them almost every day, because if you miss a seedling that has sprouted and they stretch too much for light then they use all their reserves, and don't have enough energy to produce the first leaf, then they bend over and die. Be careful not to expose them to full sunshine too quickly either if they have been in a dark place.
Some species are fine to dig up out of the baggies and seperate from the soil before it has it's first leaf, and some are really touchy and you must leave them in the baggy till they have a leaf.
when they are ready just put new potted seedling in a warm well lit place(morning sun), or artificial light, and let it go to town, fetilizing lightly after 3 or so leaf leafs have been put out.
LMK if I missed anything that your wondering about. I HOPE YOU GET SOME SPROUTS!

Excellent guide i have a load of seeds arriving today and i was wondering what mix of coco peat and perlite you use, thanks mark

Gold3nku5h
07-21-2008, 10:49 PM
Is there some reason that banana seeds should need smoke stratification? I am new to this forum because i've been looking for stuff on growing chinese dwarf banana from seed. It didn't work the first time i bought them, so im having to get serious about this batch, and i also fell in love with the looks of it, i may look for other cool bananas and good to eat ones too.

Tropicallvr
07-22-2008, 11:10 AM
Excellent guide i have a load of seeds arriving today and i was wondering what mix of coco peat and perlite you use, thanks mark

Thanks Mark, somtimes I use straight coco peat, but mostly I like to mix in about 1/4 to 1/3 parts perlite.

Gold3nku5h- If you are talking about Musellea lasiocarpa, then you'll need to place them in a fridge for a few weeks before hand. They seem to be one of the only banana seeds that need cold straitification.

island cassie
07-31-2008, 09:10 PM
I fell in love with the ensete superbum I saw growing here recently, and now I know the reason why there were no pups - I want to grow my own from seed. Bearing in mind that I cannot get anything special and can only sterilize the compost and supply warmth (lots of it), are there any tips anybody can give me before I start? I haven't ordered seeds yet.

Cassie

Gold3nku5h
08-01-2008, 03:51 PM
Cassie :waving: - what was the reason why you couldn't get pups to produce? :2719: Is there a chance that raising a plant from seed that it may not produce pups for some reason? :2182: Or did i miss interperet your message? :dancinpup:

Egluzhe
01-22-2009, 06:25 PM
Hello,
first I'm sorry for my english. I am glad to join this forum. I want to grow musa sikkimensis Darjeeling Banana in container from the seed. I try germinate musa acuminata, but then I collect a litlle information about Banana seeds germination and it does not work. Now I read this forum and see the video (Thanks to Erlend), but I am still not sure, that it's works to me... If I'll do all like in the video, can I hope successful germination? Maybe anyone try banana seeds in wet bog moss germination?
Respect! ;)

Egle

Chironex
01-22-2009, 07:02 PM
Welcome Egle, I believe that you will find good results using Erlands method. I have some banana seeds in wet peat moss now. It may be too soon to say if it works or not, but I am hopeful for success.
It is a good idea. Good Luck!

Egluzhe
01-23-2009, 05:49 AM
Welcome Egle, I believe that you will find good results using Erlands method. I have some banana seeds in wet peat moss now. It may be too soon to say if it works or not, but I am hopeful for success.
It is a good idea. Good Luck!

Thank yuo! I hope too, that this method with wet peat moss will be a success. I''ll be waiting for your results. Please tell me, how do you germinate banana seeds in wet peat moss: container, temperatur, etc?

Tog Tan
01-25-2009, 02:55 AM
I fell in love with the ensete superbum I saw growing here recently, and now I know the reason why there were no pups - I want to grow my own from seed. Bearing in mind that I cannot get anything special and can only sterilize the compost and supply warmth (lots of it), are there any tips anybody can give me before I start? I haven't ordered seeds yet.

Cassie

Cassie, saw your post while reading this thread. Btw Ensete's don't pup and that's what made me like them - clean growth habit. This is the plant which made me fall in love in 'naners. I didn't like them in the past even though M'sia is full of them everywhere. I kinda didn't like the messy unkempt clumping of the Musa till now.

E superbum are not hard to germinate. The plant in the pix was from a batch of old sds I bought off the net. I had 3 out of 10 come up in approx 18 days. This plant was germinated on New Year's day, 1.01.08. Pix taken 24.01.09. This chap is 1 yr old now. It got too big for its pot so I just had it transferred to my nursery last week. I had to cut off most of its leaves otherwise, it looks real good. With heavy watering and feeding, it gave me 1 new leaf every day! So far this is still my favorite among all the 'naners I have grown. The leaf arrangement lives up to its common name of Bird's Nest Banana. :ha:

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15401&ppuser=3823><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=15401&size=1 border=0></a>

Michael_Andrew
01-29-2009, 04:03 PM
Wow nice. Where can I get one them them. The cigar not the superbum!

Tog Tan
01-29-2009, 05:18 PM
Pheww... and I thought you were after my 'bum....:ha::ha::ha:

Michael_Andrew
01-29-2009, 06:14 PM
I'm sure your bum is super but I'll just stick with an Oliva Series G a few times a year.

island cassie
02-07-2009, 02:02 PM
Sorry for the delay in replying, Tog. The ensetes I found growing near here were on someone else's property, but I had been watching them for pups ready to introduce myself, and beg or buy one. But in the meantime I found out that they don't pup and that I had been wasting my time! lol! I also like their clean non-pupping lines but initially I thought they had been trimmed. So when they have fruited, the plant is cut down and the area is replanted with seedlings - am I right? I had been thinking of them for landscape planting to enhance the front of the house, but if I have to replace them regularly I might think again - although I do like them! So many gorgeous plants - so little space!

Gold3nku5h - I haven't tried any from seed yet - just thinking about it.

Tog Tan
02-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Sorry for the delay in replying, Tog. The ensetes I found growing near here were on someone else's property, but I had been watching them for pups ready to introduce myself, and beg or buy one. But in the meantime I found out that they don't pup and that I had been wasting my time! lol! I also like their clean non-pupping lines but initially I thought they had been trimmed. So when they have fruited, the plant is cut down and the area is replanted with seedlings - am I right? I had been thinking of them for landscape planting to enhance the front of the house, but if I have to replace them regularly I might think again - although I do like them! So many gorgeous plants - so little space!

Gold3nku5h - I haven't tried any from seed yet - just thinking about it.

Hey Cassie,

I think the effort to replant them is worth it and I have been told their life span is much longer than Musa's.

This is the first time I am into Ensete's and I really love them. I have been germinating the E glaucum, E livingstonianum and E ventricosum from sds which I buy basically from rarepalmseeds. So far I have about 100+ sdlgs in total of which I am using for the landscaping of my nursery.

Call me crazy, but I really like them. Also, over here in the tropical clime, they do much better than the Musa's. The E superbum have been without fail giving me 1 new leaf every day! I have yet to encounter a 'naner that does that.

I just got in 1,000sds of the Thai Ensete sp Kluay Pa and am expecting 500sds of the E perriei.

Truly, it's worth the replanting, go for it! :02:

Bananaman88
02-11-2009, 07:25 AM
A new leaf each day? That's incredible!

Tog Tan
02-11-2009, 01:37 PM
A new leaf each day? That's incredible!

Brent, so far the E superbum is my No.1 in growth. My 5 mth old E livingstonianum is giving me 1 new leaf every 2 days which is pretty good. All my other musa's put up a new leaf once every 3-3.5 days. So Ensete's rocks!:goteam:

island cassie
02-18-2009, 07:55 PM
Tog - Ensete Superbum is my favourite and I think I have to go for some seeds. Heaven knows where I'll plant them!

Tog Tan
02-19-2009, 12:25 AM
Tog - Ensete Superbum is my favourite and I think I have to go for some seeds. Heaven knows where I'll plant them!

Hey Cassie, I am expecting to get at least 300sds in the next 2 months from a seed guy. I can give you a bunch. How many do you want? Can you receive them by mail?

Egluzhe
02-19-2009, 03:18 AM
Hi,
if anyone try to soak the M. sikkimensis seeds in smoke primer?

Dalmatiansoap
02-19-2009, 12:12 PM
I believe that Sikkimensis ih hard to germinate anyway.
:woohoonaner:

Tog Tan
02-19-2009, 01:44 PM
Musa sikkimensis.........? :ha: I have 2 different batches of the 2 varieties for 1 year and more now, sitting pretty and not saying hello! :ha::ha::ha: Best of luck!:ha:

Bob
02-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Same with me for sikkimensis, I had 2 Darjeeling giants come up within a month last October from a batch of 3 types(reg, daj giant and red form). E. Glaucum was very easy with a high success rate. Have a few more varieties just started. All were/are on a heat mat I use for tomato seedlings as well.

Egluzhe
02-20-2009, 04:14 AM
Thank you, Tog! :nanadrink:
Well, I'm incurable optimist and I hope that my M.sikkimensis will say Hello to me before it turn one year :ha:

akebono
05-14-2009, 10:56 PM
I've been looking for a guide specific to Musa sikkimensis since I've ordered about 100 seeds. I respect Tropicallvr's efforts, but I prefer having data to support broad statements. There are also a lot of comments indicating "variable" results. I hunted around for individual reports with germination conditions and found some on another website. Here is a tabular summary. Maybe this would be a good format for all to contribute to? I welcome praise and flames!

Attached is the table in .pdf format. Let me know if you want the original Excel file.

akebono

jmoore
05-15-2009, 02:29 AM
Interesting study, and tahnks for all the hard work, it must have taken you ages. I think, though, germination depends a lot on freshness of seeds, which is something that is purely dependant on the supplier of the seed and their honesty about the provenance of that seed. This is something that we cannot measure or control. There are a lot of suppliers of sikkimensis seeds and they all seem to be selling old, unviable seed. If I could find one reliable source I would grab at the chance because I'm desperate for a sikkimensis.

Also hypochlorite and chlorine bleach are the same, just a small thing.

Tog Tan
05-15-2009, 08:09 AM
Interesting study, and tahnks for all the hard work, it must have taken you ages. I think, though, germination depends a lot on freshness of seeds, which is something that is purely dependant on the supplier of the seed and their honesty about the provenance of that seed. This is something that we cannot measure or control. There are a lot of suppliers of sikkimensis seeds and they all seem to be selling old, unviable seed. If I could find one reliable source I would grab at the chance because I'm desperate for a sikkimensis.
Also hypochlorite and chlorine bleach are the same, just a small thing.

Agree with you 100% James, you are totally rite, in fact so right if you were to go run for Mayor, I will come and vote for you! :ha:

I will probably string all of the few hundred sds into a chain and hang it near my germn table as a warning for all the bloody sds who do not want to sprout.

I am still on the look out for really good newly harvested ones, you will be the first to get them from me. Only that you will have to come here and vote for me in case I decide to run for mayor.....k? :ha:

akebono
05-15-2009, 09:06 AM
Thanks for the constructive comments!

It took just a few hours ... it takes me longer to shop for seeds than it does to produce a "metastudy" like this one. There are a few things wrong with the study and the reporting, one of which you picked up on, hypochlorite/chlorine bleach. I'll blame that on being tired, because I was finishing up near midnight. More fundamental is that these are reports, mostly of only a just a few seeds of unknown source and age. There is a lot of missing information.

Our goal as a community should be to expand on what I've done. Please send in your latest results! If we report the vendor as part of the table maybe we can identify the ones providing fresh or properly handled seed. A little more openness from the vendors would be helpful. The garden seed packets from one of my local discount big-box stores has harvest date printed on the outside of the envelope. (Kudos to <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frosthartepalmen.de%2F&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=">Frosthardy Palms </a> for posting their harvest dates!)

-akebono

akebono
05-17-2009, 09:38 AM
I've set up a survey form that could help with collecting the data. I'll put up the results each month or so. The survey is anonymous. Tog, you said that you have a lot of non-germinating seeds. Your input is important too!

<a href="http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=iV8CXb7Ido_2b1_2f0aytOM33Q_3d_3d">Click Here to take survey.</a>

jmoore
05-17-2009, 10:58 AM
Again, good job! I've only had a brief look, but is there a space to put supplier of the seed?

Could it be expanded to include other species? This would be very useful indeed and prevent a lot of wasted money, I'm sure.

jmoore
05-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Found this link, people may find it useful. I'm going to try the concentrated sulphuric acid scarification. Also the warm part of the cycle is a lot shorter than I first thought.

CHAPTER 49. MUSACEAE (http://www.bioversityinternational.org/publications/Web_version/52/ch34.htm)

have a read

akebono
05-17-2009, 07:58 PM
jmoore,

The supplier is question #3. I used "source" because people might be sharing seed and not know who collected the seed originally. I could also create duplicate surveys for other species. Another service might suit our needs better, so let's see how it goes for this one species first.

-akebono

akebono
05-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Okay, I've started a second survey based on feedback from those on the forum and outside. The original survey will close. <a href="http://www.mysurveylab.com/index.php?lng=2&cId=8aa65cd25adad73d4ea398dcecb0f8b39a0861ca&pid=133" target="_blank">Please click on this link to fill out the survey.</a> The survey will close August 14, 2009. I'll incorporate the responses from the old survey into the new one.

Differences:
multiple species
dormancy and freshness
allows further description of germination conditions
see summary of responses from previous users

-akebono

akebono
05-29-2009, 07:41 PM
Its awfully quiet in here ...
"Echo, cho, ho, o ..."

I've printed out the survey as a .pdf so that you can see what you're getting into or want to borrow ideas. The .pdf will last longer than the online survey.

-akebono

Dalmatiansoap
05-30-2009, 02:35 AM
Looks like I ll have to get heat mat after all :)
:woohoonaner:

akebono
05-30-2009, 08:04 AM
I don't know that it's necessary. I've seen a couple of reports with germination at 25 C. Most try warmer temperatures with some cycling between low and high. I have a set sitting out at about 23 C just to compare with the ones I have experience swings between 25 and 37.

7 days and counting!

-akebono

jmoore
05-30-2009, 10:29 AM
akebono

I tried to fill out a survey, but it says it's closed. Looked at the .pdf, but I can't fill it out electronically.

akebono
05-30-2009, 01:17 PM
The one in post #77 should work. Here is the url in plain text, mySurveyLab - Next Generation On-line Survey System (http://www.mysurveylab.com/index.php?lng=2&cId=8aa65cd25adad73d4ea398dcecb0f8b39a0861ca&pid=133) . I closed the one on surveymonkey because it didn't let me have 11 questions.

-akebono

jmoore
05-30-2009, 01:43 PM
That one doesn't work either :waving:

akebono
05-30-2009, 01:54 PM
please try again. I changed some settings. Thanks!

akebono
07-01-2009, 09:36 AM
All,

Attached as a PDF are my results for for the past 2 months. Best case 27% germination. Gee, I wonder how old my seeds are?

-akebono

jmoore
07-01-2009, 12:01 PM
How long did you soak them for?

I've just received 100 sikkimensis and 100 daj giant from banana tree. Half are soaking, half are in the fridge for a week.

Also received 90 sikkimensis seeds from a different source - same treatment.

20+% is really good, I shouldn't be disappointed with that.

akebono
07-01-2009, 12:58 PM
Only about 30 minutes total. Using 60 mL dry whatever (soil, pellets, ...) and 40 mL water assures that the seeds stay moist (if not wet). I was using the hot water soak to get rid of excess pulp clinging to the seeds.

Not sure what I'll try next - I only need one to survive planting! I don't have 16 friends that are 'nanners!

-akebono

Mark Hall
09-25-2009, 02:25 PM
Just went to watch Erlands Video only to find it's been removed.

Not seen a post from him in a while either.

51st state
09-25-2009, 05:05 PM
It was a very good video, still, maybe he's re-doing that dreadful euro disco soundtrack :-))

jmoore
10-09-2009, 09:21 AM
I thought I'd share some of my successes and failures with banana seed germination I've had this summer.

I've tried to germinate the following:
Sikkimensis x 200
sikkimensis 'manipur' x 50
ornata x 50
itinerans x 20
darjeeling giant x 120 (100 bought from one source were dud) (20 purchased from a different source excellent germination)
formosana x 50

I used the same technique for all of them, with possibly one or two exceptions. This is the technique I used:
1. soak in boiled and cooled water for 6 days (changing water every day)
2. soak in 20ml/l nitrozyme solution for 24 hours
3. place seeds in vermiculite contained in a plastic food saver with lid (vermiculite was wetted and then drained)
4. place sealed container in a heated propagator at 32 degress for 12 hours then removed at night and left at room temperature (whatever that may be at the time) for a further 12 hours.

with all of the species mentioned above there has been sign of germination after 7 days (ie the micropylar plug lifting and the beginnings of a sprout showing)

6. once germination has started transfer to a well drained compost and keep at a constant temperature of 32 degrees until sprout shows, usually a further 2 weeks or so.

The one exception is that I kept my 50 formosana seeds in the fridge for 7 days before soaking and out of 50 I got close to 30 plants.

I can't say how fresh or not the seed was, but I will say that most seed suppliers indicate whether a seed batch is 'new'. These are the ones I went for when buying.

I hope this is of some use to someone somewhere.

varig8
11-13-2009, 10:09 AM
I've germinated Musa seed many times. Since you may have gotten them from a seed catalog, or you do not know how fresh they are; and also they do take some time to sprout, I always score the seed whether fresh or not. This way , if they are viable, they sprout within a weeks time. Simply take a metal fingernail file, and file ONE tiny cut through the hard outer shell until you just barely see the white meat inside. Only enough to permit some moisture into the interior of the seed. Then soak overnight and pot them up right below the surface with the "bellybutton" top side up. Roots will develop around the outer 'ring' of the bellybutton, and the shoot will come from the center. Keep evenly moist but not soaking wet. Ive used many different soil mixes, doesnt seem to matter, its the amount of water that is crucial. Of course, you should provide warmth and bright light. Ive found this way very successful. If you think about it, nature has made it possible for these seed to germinate simply by being passed through an animals digestive track,(permiting easy germination from the acids in their stomachs to breakdown some of the hard shell), and then dropped to the ground and sprout themselves without any 'help' from man.

Anaxagoras
12-17-2009, 09:58 PM
Hi varig8!

Your post is the best of this Thread because Your method is simple and hopeful. I will try this way... intently.

varig8
12-08-2010, 06:03 PM
I should mention that if the seed is very old; when you break through the hard outer shell to the interior, if it is not viable, you will not see any 'white meat'-it will just be empty and full of dust! Ive also heard that some types of seed will sink if they are viable and float if not, but I dont think this holds true with all Musa seed.

soobak0313
08-09-2012, 11:59 PM
It means that they don't need light to germinate, right?
Also, exactly how hot(Degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius, whatever) is 'too hot'?

bengtang
11-26-2012, 06:02 PM
From what I see of bananas in the wild, I think they are meant to have their seeds dispersed by animals. The banana fruit is meant to be eaten by fruit bats, monkeys, birds, squirrels. The seeds would then go through the acid stomach, digestive enzymes, gut bacteria (all in the warm body of the animal), and then a few hours later, be deposited in a pile of dung. Maybe mimicking these conditions would help them germinate?

Maybe you can eat the seeds with a banana and then poop in your garden?

sunfish
11-26-2012, 07:07 PM
From what I see of bananas in the wild, I think they are meant to have their seeds dispersed by animals. The banana fruit is meant to be eaten by fruit bats, monkeys, birds, squirrels. The seeds would then go through the acid stomach, digestive enzymes, gut bacteria (all in the warm body of the animal), and then a few hours later, be deposited in a pile of dung. Maybe mimicking these conditions would help them germinate?

Maybe you can eat the seeds with a banana and then poop in your garden?

Good idea.I'm sure someone will try it

sunfish
11-26-2012, 07:22 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=16918&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16918)

varig8
11-26-2012, 11:45 PM
thai is so wrong..........

jmoore
11-27-2012, 02:39 AM
From what I see of bananas in the wild, I think they are meant to have their seeds dispersed by animals. The banana fruit is meant to be eaten by fruit bats, monkeys, birds, squirrels. The seeds would then go through the acid stomach, digestive enzymes, gut bacteria (all in the warm body of the animal), and then a few hours later, be deposited in a pile of dung. Maybe mimicking these conditions would help them germinate?

Maybe you can eat the seeds with a banana and then poop in your garden?

Funny you should mention that, I've just ordered some animal rennet to try a very similar experiment. I'm not sure rennet has the correct enzymes, but I'm going to give it a go. I'll report back.

sunfish
11-27-2012, 08:51 AM
Banana Breeding: Progress and Challenges - Michael Pillay, Abdou Tenkouano, Abdou Tenkouano - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=l191eUt9FSUC&pg=PA164&lpg=PA164&dq=Acid+for+musa+seed+germination&source=bl&ots=GZ5-jpW2-U&sig=YOozHjJP5GU3p1cDRgM38lQ8s2A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IsC0UOHGKa_SigLP04BA&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Acid%20for%20musa%20seed%20germination&f=false)

bengtang
11-27-2012, 04:46 PM
Banana Breeding: Progress and Challenges - Michael Pillay, Abdou Tenkouano, Abdou Tenkouano - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=l191eUt9FSUC&pg=PA164&lpg=PA164&dq=Acid+for+musa+seed+germination&source=bl&ots=GZ5-jpW2-U&sig=YOozHjJP5GU3p1cDRgM38lQ8s2A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IsC0UOHGKa_SigLP04BA&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Acid%20for%20musa%20seed%20germination&f=false)

Thanks sunfish, a really good article on breeding. So it seems that acid kills seed but scarifying with sandpaper or poking a hole with a pin to break through the inner layer of seed coat may help germination.

bengtang
11-30-2012, 03:29 AM
Very interesting article on germination and dormancy
http://www.musalit.org/pdf/IN970066_en.pdf

This paper recommends chipping and 9 alternating cycles of warm and cool temperatures (12-18C for12 hrs, 35C for 12 hrs)
http://www.ogtr.gov.au/internet/ogtr/publishing.nsf/content/banana-3/$FILE/biologybanana08.pdf

EdwardWood
04-17-2013, 10:06 PM
Is it not a good idea to use jiffy pots to germinate seeds in?

munzi1
05-10-2013, 08:49 AM
Hi,
How long does it take germination Musas ? I have it sown March 1, 2013 and still not germinate , I musa sikkimensis , itinerans , balbisiana, cheesmanii, sikkimensis red tiger . Thank you for the feedback . Vlasta

sunfish
05-10-2013, 09:04 AM
Hi,
How long does it take germination Musas ? I have it sown March 1, 2013 and still not germinate , I musa sikkimensis , itinerans , balbisiana, cheesmanii, sikkimensis red tiger . Thank you for the feedback . Vlasta

From 2 weeks on

munzi1
05-10-2013, 09:35 AM
I think whether seed still have a chance on germination. Is in temps 30īC on 10 hours, and in night on room temps. Thanks Vlasta

sunfish
06-20-2013, 09:31 PM
:woohoonaner:
<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/user/musanamwah/media/010-5.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/010-5.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 010-5.jpg"/></a>

sirdoofus
07-06-2014, 05:25 PM
Hello, I am from Vancouver Island, BC, newly registered but have visited the site from time to time and thoroughly appreciate the knowledge I have picked up.

This germination info is great, very helpful. I would be very interested in seeing some pics of the bag technique if one of you happens to be doing another germination in the near future and feels compelled to post some photos.

I haven't actually tried germinating banana seeds before and am looking forward to giving it a shot

Cheers, Mike

Brian S
06-12-2015, 10:48 AM
Hello all I was curious if anyone on the forum can possibly tell me varieties that produce VERY LARGE SEEDS. If anyone viewed the video on YouTube listed below I just am wanting to get some seeds that produce VERY LARGE SEEDS.
Thanks,

http://youtu.be/GaU0W4wd79M

Brian S
06-12-2015, 10:50 AM
Ps. I have googled everything I can type to try to locate that information but no luck.
Thanks

jmoore
06-12-2015, 12:47 PM
It's Giant Ensete Ventricosum, can't seem to get anything else these days.

Ricky
09-26-2015, 08:25 AM
I was hoping to see your video "Musa germination guide" but the link does not work for me. Has it been taken down?
Thanks Ricky

sirdoofus
07-18-2019, 03:43 PM
Just curiously, and I am sure this question has been asked before so I apologize for the repeat but I couldn't seem to find an answer; has anyone had any success germinating Musa in a water wash as one might use to make salad sprouts? i.e. soak for whatever time period, then drain and wash 2-3 times daily.

jmoore
07-19-2019, 02:28 AM
The banana seed | The banana knowledge platform of the ProMusa network (http://www.promusa.org/The+banana+seed)

You could try it, but the annoying thing about banana seeds is that they have an inner cuticle that is impervious to water. So you can soak them as long as you like they won't absorb water. (read the article from the link attached) The only way round it is either mechanically break that cuticle, which quite often results in mould growth - in my experience anyway; or to remove the embryo and grow in vitro. That is why freshness is key. If the seeds are fresh they will germinate, but of they go dormant then only very specific conditions will allow it to germinate. The question is - what are those conditions? I suspect it may have something to do with UV light.

By all means try.

sirdoofus
07-19-2019, 09:47 AM
That's very informative, thank you very much, greatly appreciated.