View Full Version : ? on over wintering in the house
lwabirds
11-27-2007, 08:07 PM
I bought several small basjoos that I potted up in September and placed under 2 grolux 40watt bulbs inside the house. I haven't over watered them. I've kept them on the dry side/moist. They're not doing good at all. They're turning brown and dieing. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?
the flying dutchman
11-28-2007, 06:29 AM
Yeah, well, i don't know exactly. It's quite a shock for the plant. First the
fact that you have potted it and second the circumstances under wich it grows have changed.
Maybe the air is to dry where it is now or the temps too high or the spots
are burning it or a combination of those facts.
Just some guesses as most people keep their Basjoos on a cool spot and
dry in winter.
Ron
musa_monkey
11-28-2007, 08:29 AM
FYI, I have 3 growing in the house well for the last two months. They are all potted and see natural light during the day. (No additional artificial light) The room temperature is around 20c and the humidity is always above 70RH and i dont spray the leaves. I also only water when they dry out and then vary sparingly.
bencelest
11-28-2007, 11:01 AM
I am just guessing.
It sounds like you have an ideal surrounding for your plants to live.
But you have that problem.
If I were you, I would not put it on direct sunlight and since it appears that they are now in shock, I'll go easy on them. Then hopefully they should recover.
Sometimes they don't . When you say you don't water too much, that's a relative term.
And don't put fertilizer at this time. If you did, that maybe the problem.
lwabirds
11-28-2007, 10:05 PM
they've been inside for about a month. Just can't figure them out.
bencelest
11-28-2007, 11:36 PM
I bought several small basjoos that I potted up in September and placed under 2 grolux 40watt bulbs inside the house. I haven't over watered them. I've kept them on the dry side/moist. They're not doing good at all. They're turning brown and dieing. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?
Maybe this is another guess:
I also bought a bunch of small bananas last spring. I only have gotten to live about 70 % of them. They are mostly cultured bananas. Even the spears that I got 3 or 4 had died. Change of environment I guess, or heat or ?
You see they live in an environment that they were born with and then all of a sudden they got transferred to where they are not used to. So they are in shock!
Only the fittest survive. Those that are weak are eliminated.
mrbungalow
11-29-2007, 02:01 AM
I guarantee you it's lack of light. Two 40 W bulbs doesn't do the job. You need a Metal Halide fixture of atleast 300 W to get effective light for bananas. Some special fluorescents work great too, but only for smaller plants.
The more light and the higher temperatures, the more water you need too.
Bananas are not hard to grow, and shouldn't die or turn brown. If they do there is an environmental-factor that must be eliminated. Contrary to what I believed before they can take quite dry air as long as there is enough light. Light is the key.
Erlend
bencelest
11-29-2007, 10:01 AM
The MH will give you the right tempt for your plants aside from the lights it needs. The downside is the cost of the electric.
the flying dutchman
11-29-2007, 11:47 AM
Mine grow perfectly well in the basement with the temps between 50F-60F
and only 4 low-energy bulbs, no MH or growlights at all. The humidity is
90%.
I think the general rule is: the lower the temps the less light you need or
no light at all(then they are dormant)
This goes with rule 2: the lower the temps, the less the growth is, the less
you have to water or not all.
Now, ofcourse, all depends on what your goal is, you can invest alot of
money to create the perfect conditions but it is not necessary.
Ron
cactus6103
11-29-2007, 03:18 PM
I think you said it perfectly. Red
mrbungalow
11-30-2007, 05:39 AM
Yes, Ron summed it up perfectly. :basketbalhooplnaner
Randy4ut
11-30-2007, 08:34 AM
After reading this thread, I do have one question about my situation. I have about 11 pots of bananas in my den ranging from 'Ice Creams', Bordelons, Laterita and all are doing fine with the exception of one; my small Darjeeling Giant. They have all been inside for about 6-8 weeks now, only slightly watered all, once about 4 weeks ago. Some are even putting out pups. On the negative, the Daj has drooped and started dying. I have moved it into the kitchen near a window with indirect light and it seems to be hanging on. If the conditions are the same for all the nanners I have in the den, why would the daj react differently to the conditions than the others? BTW, in my den, I use no artificial lighting (only large bank of windows on east side and French doors (south side). I currently do not add any supplemental moisture, but will be within the week. I just received a humidifier and waiting on filters to arrive and will crank it up. Any input on my situation would be appreciated...
Randy
mrbungalow
11-30-2007, 09:22 AM
My opinion: This one, is the worst banana there is for inside cultivation. I have actually never seen a banana like it. It hates beeing inside! Whatever you do, however many times you mist it looks terrible! "Darjeeling Giant" bananas seem to need high humidity and strong light in order to look good. Otherwise, they just brown and/or dry up.
My experience:
They do fine and grow fast outside and in the greenhouse. Just not in the house.
Erlend
Randy4ut
11-30-2007, 10:29 AM
Thanks Erland, I may just have to take it to my friend to put in her greenhouse and hope for the best!!!
marco
12-02-2007, 09:14 AM
Hi!
I was just referred to this site from lawnsite and I'm excited to be here!
Here, I thought I was about the ONLY 'nut job' :2783: in the world who moved his banana trees in and out of the house according to the season, and was brave enough to try to turn them in to house plants!
I couple of years ago I had worked by trial and error and 'fine tuned' the mix rate of a special horticultural oil that I've found was useful in preserving the moisture inside the banana leaves in a home atmosphere.
What other 'home-made' anti-dessicants are out there for making banana tree house plants look nicer?
marco
microfarmer
12-02-2007, 02:53 PM
Hi!
I was just referred to this site from lawnsite and I'm excited to be here!
Here, I thought I was about the ONLY 'nut job' :2783: in the world who moved his banana trees in and out of the house according to the season, and was brave enough to try to turn them in to house plants!
I couple of years ago I had worked by trial and error and 'fine tuned' the mix rate of a special horticultural oil that I've found was useful in preserving the moisture inside the banana leaves in a home atmosphere.
What other 'home-made' anti-dessicants are out there for making banana tree house plants look nicer?
marco
So, do tell...what's the magic formula...hmmm?:cool:
bencelest
12-02-2007, 05:17 PM
"What other 'home-made' anti-dessicants are out there for making banana tree house plants look nicer?"
I don't understand anti-desicants mean.
mskitty38583
12-02-2007, 05:58 PM
a humidifier??? :nanabath:
marco
12-03-2007, 12:21 AM
"What other 'home-made' anti-dessicants are out there for making banana tree house plants look nicer?"
I don't understand anti-desicants mean.
Anti-desiccants are liquid 'anti -drying ' agents.
A little background about me 1st:
I have about 25 years experience in the Ohio 'green industry' including (primarily) professional turf grass maintenance, nursery management, arboretum management, landscaping & other 'outside' areas...
Anti-desiccants are used quite a bit by landscapers when they're moving trees during warmer periods, for example, as to not allow too much valuable transpiration of water vapor out of the tissue in transport, especially when they're transported on trucks under tarps. Or, in other situations, it may be used as a 'winter coating' for some plantings that were planted too late that year, or otherwise planted in notoriously difficult climate conditions that may make them susceptible to winter 'wind burn'.
In the trial and error experiments I did, I used a Horticulture Oil that has a 92% unsulfonated residue. (92% 'free' of sulfur)
And then I eventually, after some mistakes, learned that the ratio of 15:1 works best (15 p. distilled water to 1 p. hort oil).
All I do is gradually condition the trees back inside around the middle to the end of September, taking them out of the ground still in the 10 gallon pots that I had planted them in the spring (with extra holes, of course).
Two weeks after I get them in, around the middle of October or so, I just mist the tops of the leaves, not even to the point of runoff.
Then, I'm careful not to put them in to direct sunlight in a picture window- I give them decent light only behind venetian blinds in 70 F temps.
Once during the winter I rinse the leaves in the laundry room to shake the 'dust' off the oil. Then I'll reapply the oil after the leaves have dried.
Come the first of May I will reverse the process to condition them 'outside' gradually, also making sure all the oil is off before they're in full sun.
If not, they're toast! :2756:
marco
12-03-2007, 12:25 AM
So, do tell...what's the magic formula...hmmm?:cool:
.
bencelest
12-03-2007, 12:59 AM
In my opinion micro farmer is not being sarcastic. Nothing I can detect from his words.
Thanks Marco for your great explanation.
Now I know.
Another question, will the 15 to1 ratio of hort oil will also help to get rid of the spider mites during the winter time?
Is that applicable to use on papayas?
magicgreen
12-03-2007, 01:57 AM
Marco you are tooo funny!!!!! Im in Cincy also..Home of the BENGALS "WHODEY!!" Anyway whats the magic oil? I'LL bet a lil olive oil & water with a dab of dishsoap. But seriously, iam a newby to banana growing. next year I'll keep a few to look pretty in the house and the others I'LL treat as EEars. I love the look of the plant by itself! If it doesnt bear fruit.....Thats OK by me! I wanna have a beautiful specimen year after year. Should it fruit?........welllll that will be a bonus.
Welcome to Bananas.Org!!!!:0513: this is a great forum, with alot of wonderful wonderful people looking and lurking everyday. Have fun, sit back, and enjoy the ride:2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: :2623: Magicgreen
marco
12-04-2007, 02:19 PM
In my opinion micro farmer is not being sarcastic. Nothing I can detect from his words.
Thanks Marco for your great explanation.
Now I know.
Another question, will the 15 to1 ratio of hort oil will also help to get rid of the spider mites during the winter time?
Is that applicable to use on papayas?
(micro farmer, I apologize if I jumped to conclusions about the intention behind your blog.
I was had just been on lawnsite.com's 'politics' forum RIGHT before I typed that message, and my nerves were STILL a bit tattered and torn from the non-stop battle with the nudniks there!)
bencelest, I answered this question on the other thread.
Start with some STRONG hose pressure on the mite concentration, then spray the plants, and the entire area around them with insecticidal soap.
Maybe try some beneficial mites later if that doesn't work.
bencelest
12-04-2007, 10:58 PM
Thanks Marco.
But what are some beneficial mites that you know of?
I am new to this. Can you buy them?
I have another problem with my Italian plum last summer. They just have too many aphids and it's a big tree. I tried to hose it down with full force but it helps very little. I am planning to cut the height so I can reach the top this winter when I have the time. So by springtime the hose can reach the top.
jason
12-05-2007, 12:03 AM
dry leaves are usually a sign of to low of humidity or spider mites,,look very close it is sometimes hard to see them at first.
mskitty38583
12-05-2007, 12:56 AM
easy solution for aphids: according to my FAVORITE master gardner, paul james the gardner guy, dilute 1 c. of apple juice with even amounts of water spray on tree just before dark.....and turn loose the million lady bug you ordered through the mail. the apple juice will keep the ladybugs there in the tree and they will devour the aphids.
bencelest
12-05-2007, 01:11 AM
Thanks Mskitty.
marco
12-05-2007, 08:58 AM
Thanks Marco.
But what are some beneficial mites that you know of?
I am new to this. Can you buy them?
I have another problem with my Italian plum last summer. They just have too many aphids and it's a big tree. I tried to hose it down with full force but it helps very little. I am planning to cut the height so I can reach the top this winter when I have the time. So by springtime the hose can reach the top.
Like I said on the other thread, I've not tried this product, but I have used a different type of beneficial mite (for a very different purpose unrelated to this).
The web site is benemite.com and the company is called 'Biotactics' out of Romoland CA.
Somewhere out your way...
What Mskitty said about aphids is true, but aphids are very different creatures than mites!
A different CLASS of creatures even...
They can be eaten by ladybugs, yes. But real the problem simply lies in the logistics of the sheer numbers of ladybugs needed to take care of an 'active' mite infestation.
Your cold frame might resemble an insect version of Hitchcock's "The Birds" with all the swarming ladybugs needed to do the job!
(You don't want to end up looking like Tippi Hedron, do you? :2188: )
Initially using generous amounts of beneficial mites in your cold frame, and then trying to avoid the use afterward of pesticides and soaps in the area, should preserve your investment for a fair amount of time.
mskitty38583
12-05-2007, 10:24 AM
good morning marco. i know that birds eat the mites.your comment about hitchcocks rendition of "the birds" is great!:eek:. i forgot he was talking about mites in the cold frams. i thought he was talking about aphids in a tree. so , my bad. just to make a suggestion: i am not a fan of insecticides, unless of course it is an "organic" one. even those can cause problems. however my fav. master gardner,replied to a question about the use of the insecticides and he said and i quote," the only organic pesticide that he uses is neem. it is made for the neem tree in s.americia or in africa." the only problem with the neem is that it is not selective, it kills all kinds of insects. the bad and the good. the only reason i know about this is believe it or not i did a "persuasion, argumentive" paper in college of the pros and cons of pesticides in the garden.( i got an A on that paper) paul james' suggestion is to use it only in sever cases of infestation.if its not bad he says to spray them off with the hose. or use an insecticidal soap. so thats about as much as i can tell you. if you order the ladybugs for the aphids or not and just let the predatory bugs take care of the problems....i wish you well! the only good reason for a bad bug.... is to feed the good bug!
bencelest
12-05-2007, 11:09 AM
Thanks to both of you for fast response and good answers.
Marco,again it makes me chuckle when you compare my 'cold frame' (I call it enclosed patio) to Hictkcocks 'the Bird',although I never saw the movie but I can imagine what it would look like. Thanks for the address where I can get the beneficial mites.
Mskitty: You are right that my Italian plum was planted on the ground at a corner of my lot and very tall over 20 feet in height. But to tell you the truth, I am not keen on using ladybugs because when I used it a couple of years ago, Home Depot sells them at certain time of the year, they did not stay in my citrus plants but of course I know now and thanks to your suggestion, using apple juice.
I am not that environmental conscious person. I am you can call 'hurry up and fix the problem apronto' so what I have in mind is some insecticide that will work.
My friend Joe Real is very conscious about the environment and I wish I can be like him maybe someday. But right now I want to kill those aphids apronto so I can harvest a good crop and to have my plants looking very nice.
bencelest
12-05-2007, 11:13 AM
how do you put the smilies at the end of 'nice'?
mskitty38583
12-05-2007, 11:19 AM
how do you put the smilies at the end of "nice"? well if you not to picky on what you use, i would consider the neem. it sells at lowes for 12.00 and its concentrate, so you have to mix it with water. if your gonna use it,do it in the early, early morning or the late afternoon.and dont use it in the summer at mid day. it can burn the leaves. its safe to use around kids and pets. it doesnt harm the invironment, nor does it cause problems with the water table.( as far as i have read in my research) it just kills all kinds of bugs.:bananaflipflop:
bencelest
12-05-2007, 11:33 AM
Thank you very much Mskitty. That is a very sound advice.
I used the neem oil before but all the leaves of my Fuji apples turned brown and that's why I am skeptical using it again. But you are right, I used it in the middle of the day when the sun was very bright. So I'll take heed of your good advice. I am saving it now for future use.
I may improvise a little bit. I may use the double the dose but I will hose it off after a couple of hours. That way I can be assured that the bugs will be gone and no neem oil to worry afterwards. Sounds good?
mskitty38583
12-05-2007, 12:54 PM
it surely does. got to protect the fruit....of your labors.:2783:
marco
12-05-2007, 11:20 PM
[QUOTE=bencelest;23689]Marco,again it makes me chuckle when you compare my 'cold frame' (I call it enclosed patio) to Hictkcocks 'the Bird',although I never saw the movie but I can imagine what it would look like. Thanks for the address where I can get the beneficial mites.
QUOTE]
You've never seen "The Birds"?
Oh my!
My humor then was completely wasted on you!
Then you must go out and rent the DVD soon.
It has very good special effects...for what they had to work with in 1963!
Hitchcock was a master at instilling fear into the audience, even when nothing could be seen.
And each time one of the starlings (or whatever) takes a peck at any of the character's faces in the movie, just envision the swarms of crazed psycho ladybugs doing the same thing in your enclosed patio! :jedinaner:
mskitty38583
12-05-2007, 11:55 PM
oh yeah...did i forget to tell you? the female ladybugs..um they bite. i knew i neglected to tell you something. sorry. lol:confused:
magicgreen
12-06-2007, 01:33 AM
Mine grow perfectly well in the basement with the temps between 50F-60F
and only 4 low-energy bulbs, no MH or growlights at all. The humidity is
90%.
I think the general rule is: the lower the temps the less light you need or
no light at all(then they are dormant)
This goes with rule 2: the lower the temps, the less the growth is, the less
you have to water or not all.
Now, ofcourse, all depends on what your goal is, you can invest alot of
money to create the perfect conditions but it is not necessary.
Ron
You know something people......The Flying Dutchman is right! .....Bear in mind iam new and this is my 1st winter. I have my nannas,ginger,fern,others, in my plastic sheeted GH in the basement. I never thought to keep a thermometer down there till I got INVOLVED WITH the Nanners! The best i could do was a pool one from big lots. I just checked the temp and its ....58degrees down there in my basement. outside its .......22.4degrees outside according to my thermometersss; and i got a few cuz you know iam a gardener. But what iam saying is ......The day or two aweek that i forget the light and humidifier, and ....... the next day I turn on the light and check on my darlings.......They look wonderful! And it has been puzzeling me till i read this>>>>what the flying dutchman said. And someone else ,maybe it was him about no light , low temps. ummmmmmmmmmm
microfarmer
12-12-2007, 09:40 PM
Do I detect sarcasm here?: :mad:
No, no sarcasm. Just one of those inquiries from an onlooker...er..onlurker:camelnaner: . I am interested in the anti dessicant, though. I may have to spray my dormant plants in my garage and house plants.
Mskitty: You are right that my Italian plum was planted on the ground at a corner of my lot and very tall over 20 feet in height. But to tell you the truth, I am not keen on using ladybugs because when I used it a couple of years ago, Home Depot sells them at certain time of the year, they did not stay in my citrus plants but of course I know now and thanks to your suggestion, using apple juice.
I am not that environmental conscious person. I am you can call 'hurry up and fix the problem apronto' so what I have in mind is some insecticide that will work.
My friend Joe Real is very conscious about the environment and I wish I can be like him maybe someday. But right now I want to kill those aphids apronto so I can harvest a good crop and to have my plants looking very nice.
I've found that the aphids on my cherry trees are usually located on the fresh shoots. I saw a nonstop line of ants going up the trunk and figured that they were protecting the aphid colonies from their predators. I wrapped my cherry tree trunks with expandable tree wrap and over it I smeared a ring of tanglefoot to exclude the ants, which got rid of my aphids.
Another Earth friendly solution (but you have to climb to the aphids level) is a small squeeze of dish soap in a quart of water with about 2 tablespoons of cayenne pepper powder mixed in a spray bottle and sprayed on the colonies...burning aphid torture and death...
Lady bugs should be kept in the refrigerator and released about 100 at a time, at night, every 2-3 days. They won't fly at night (keep the yard lights off), but will crawl up the tree and lay eggs, which will hatch in a few days and the larvae will devour as many or more aphids than the adults will and not fly away 'til they pupate and hatch into adults...but not before snacking on a few aphids and mating first...
Release them in the tree if using the tanglefoot 'cause you don't want the ladybugs to get stuck...
Problem with ladybugs is the lagtime til the eggs hatch. Knock the heavy concentrations of aphids out with a hose sprayer or the soapy pepper water spray a few days before release, and keep the aphid protectors away.
Jeff
bencelest
12-12-2007, 11:23 PM
"Another Earth friendly solution (but you have to climb to the aphids level) is a small squeeze of dish soap in a quart of water with about 2 tablespoons of cayenne pepper powder mixed in a spray bottle and sprayed on the colonies...burning aphid torture and death..."
JEFF,heh-heh, I like your solution.
I am a masochist.:2169: :2169: :2169:
microfarmer
12-12-2007, 11:25 PM
Another Earth friendly solution (but you have to climb to the aphids level) is a small squeeze of dish soap in a quart of water with about 2 tablespoons of cayenne pepper powder mixed in a spray bottle and sprayed on the colonies...burning aphid torture and death...
Sorry...got a little carried away...:pepper2nana:
mskitty38583
12-12-2007, 11:26 PM
ummmm.... what is tanglefoot? inquiring minds would like to know. it sounds interesting.
mskitty38583
12-12-2007, 11:27 PM
there aint nothing wrong with making bad bugs burn..
microfarmer
12-12-2007, 11:36 PM
ummmm.... what is tanglefoot? inquiring minds would like to know. it sounds interesting.
Tanglefoot is a barrier applied to or around something that you don't want creepy crawlys to get to. It is pinepitch based I believe. It comes in a tube...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007LTPSA?smid=ADFRQ5K4I2LNR&tag=nextag-kitchen-mp-20&linkCode=asn
mskitty38583
12-13-2007, 12:26 AM
oh ok. i get it now.ive never heard of it. learn somethin new every day!:2223:. does it really work? it dosent harm the plant? can you get it at lowes and can it be used on any type plant? synthetic or organic?
bencelest
12-13-2007, 12:52 AM
No, no Jeff.
You are helping me a lot to solve my age old fight against the aphids.
It's one of my worst enemies in my garden.
I just have to guard against them practically everyday.
If I do not see my plants for 5 days, the aphids take over the new sprouts and stunted the new buds.
I have to squeeze them with my bare hands many many times and my fingers get nasty and discolored from squeezing them.
I like your solution.
microfarmer
12-16-2007, 01:51 PM
oh ok. i get it now.ive never heard of it. learn somethin new every day!:2223:. does it really work? it dosent harm the plant? can you get it at lowes and can it be used on any type plant? synthetic or organic?
Yes, it really works!! It shouldn't be applied to the plant, but to a wrap of some kind around the base of the trunk above the bulge at ground level. Be it the stretchy plastic stuff with holes (tree wrap to protect against sunburned trunks), stretchy crepe paper like wrap, or whatever. One year I found them going under the wrap...The wrap needs to be snug around the trunk to exclude the ants, but give a bit as the trunk grows and it's circumference gets bigger so as not to choke the plant. Apply the tanglefoot to the wrap in a band about 1 or 2 inches wide. I put on a goodsized bead and smear it with my finger til it's 2" wide. It'll need a new application each spring. I got mine from Home Despot. Lowe's will prolly have it too as will most gardencenters.
No, no Jeff.
You are helping me a lot to solve my age old fight against the aphids.
It's one of my worst enemies in my garden.
I just have to guard against them practically everyday.
If I do not see my plants for 5 days, the aphids take over the new sprouts and stunted the new buds.
I have to squeeze them with my bare hands many many times and my fingers get nasty and discolored from squeezing them.
I like your solution.
Benny, I used to just nip the ends of the branches with my fingers and take off the infested tips, but the trees are too tall for me to do that now and I didn't like removing all that fresh growth. One year I had ants bridge the tanglefoot with the bodies of their fellow ants, so I make my barrier about 2" wide. It'll do the job for the year. I re-wrap and reapply the tanglefoot each spring.
Now, to keep the birds and squirrels from eating all the fruit before it's fully ripened...Good luck!
bencelest
12-17-2007, 08:49 AM
I don't have problems with ants. I keep them at bay. But the aphids multiply so quickly once you look the other way. The way I understand it tanglefoot is for the ants and not for the aphids.
microfarmer
12-17-2007, 01:43 PM
I don't have problems with ants. I keep them at bay. But the aphids multiply so quickly once you look the other way. The way I understand it tanglefoot is for the ants and not for the aphids.
Yes, it's for the ants. I noticed the ants were tending the aphids to get their honeydew which they stockpile for food. If you look closly, I would not be surprised if you found an ant trail into and out of your trees. They might be coming in from a branch that touches another plant, building, or fence instead of up the main trunk.
I found an ant trail into one of my apricot trees coming out of the hood of my truck parked next to, and touching, the tree. They were coming up the tire, over the spring, up the firewall, and out the gap between the hood and fender. They're sneaky little buggers...The ants will defend their food source and the aphid's natural predators will go to better hunting grounds, instead of fighting the ants.
bencelest
12-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Ah....
I'll look up close!
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